madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Asmodian]

I have no idea. It just did. :p

I opened madVR's settings while in 60Hz, double clicked the 23 Hz mode, selected my EDID, test, save. Then put 2160p23 in madVR's list of display modes and madVR switches to it perfectly. :o

[Asmodian]

(several seconds of blackness at the beginning of every video) gets buried under tons of issues which don't touch me; I may even abandon it...

Do you have to use Full Screen Exclusive for some reason?

Also, attitude check please. Are you sure "I don't care about these updates for others, so why spend time on them? My specific issue is not being fixed, so I will stop using it unless you fix it" is what you intended to convey?

I am sure you do not need to use madVR, it is your loss of quality.

[SamuriHL]

I have no idea. It just did. :p

I opened madVR's settings while in 60Hz, double clicked the 23 Hz mode, selected my EDID, test, save. Then put 2160p23 in madVR's list of display modes and madVR switches to it perfectly. :o

Nifty! Well, I'll try again. I'm likely to DDU that machine and install a clean driver given the upgrade so I'll have a fresh start. I no longer have to worry about 3D so...

[LigH]

@Asmodian:

This issue happens even in windowed mode.

And, well, you are right, it's just my issue, I may not even really need madVR, I may be all happy with e.g. EVR, often watching videos in windowed mode only. I don't want to make it sour for all other users. Sorry all. :o ... I just wondered if a separate thread for users with "luxury hardware" may have been useful. Not anymore, too late for splitting.

[Asmodian]

That is quite strange. This happens with all video modes? D3D9 Overlay too? With and without D3D11 enabled? Which GPU?

Do you have Aero disabled?

[huhn]

And, well, you are right, it's just my issue, I may not even really need madVR, I may be all happy with e.g. EVR, often watching videos in windowed mode only. I don't want to make it sour for all other users. Sorry all. :o ... I just wondered if a separate thread for users with "luxury hardware" may have been useful. Not anymore, too late for splitting.

no one stops you from creating a thread.

you only mean a black video the rest is "normal" so the player controls are still visibile?

[LigH]

For the first ~5 seconds, the video renderer stays black, but the clip in general plays as you can hear from the dubbed audio, and the player window around the renderer rectangle (menu, controls, window border) is visible too; after the initial blackness, the video is visible, even if you stop and jump back to the beginning. So it just seems to have an initialization delay per clip, after opening the file, for the first playback start.

And yes, Aero Glass is disabled, I have an Aero Basic design (due to a few ancient applications which would force a switch to Aero Basic each time they start).

[ryrynz]

But what about the other options Asmodian mentioned? Almost sounds like something in memory interfering with the presentation.

[LigH]

GeForce GT(S?) 450; the delay happens only with madVR, not with e.g. EVR or Overlay renderer; regarding the madVR rendering options, I will have to check in detail when I'm back home...

[chros]

LigH, can you repeat which os, player, madvr settings do you use?
I don't have any issues on Win8.1, fse, 10bit.

[ABDO]

On Samsung TVs there's a special display mode to simulate HDR effects on SDR content called HDR+. It is used together with a function called optimal contrast.


Can we get such a feature for madVR? I guess those calculations done on the TVs are pretty low in quality?

i don't know what exactly Samsung TV do, but i always use 2006 (hdragc) filter for something like that with unbelievable result, it is slow, as it is did not hav MMX, SSE, SSE2 optimization, in some day (Didée) and (martin53) says that they will make an speed alternative to (hdragc) but unfortunately it does not see the light, it is nice dream to see something like that in madvr someday, but madshi already have a huge work in madvr.

[mclingo]

For the first ~5 seconds, the video renderer stays black, but the clip in general plays as you can hear from the dubbed audio, and the player window around the renderer rectangle (menu, controls, window border) is visible too; after the initial blackness, the video is visible, even if you stop and jump back to the beginning. So it just seems to have an initialization delay per clip, after opening the file, for the first playback start.

And yes, Aero Glass is disabled, I have an Aero Basic design (due to a few ancient applications which would force a switch to Aero Basic each time they start).

I use KODI DS and MPC-BE and have very similar issues, however when in KODI ds, if I choose to play the same video via the internal player is starts straight away.

I've asked this myself before and was told it was fairly normal, MADVR is just starting up essentially, it may have to switch pixel/res and engage, take a few seconds. Yeah it can be a bit annoying if you are resuming a video but I've just got used to it and it no longer bothers me.

I'm also using D3D11 , FSE and windowed mode in KODI DS, it also does it in MPC-BE though so its nothing to do with that.

MADSHI could look at this i'm sure but with all the other issues that need sorting I can understand why its a low priority.

! remember though, nobody is paying MADSHI for this MADVR loveliness beyond donations so lets try and keep everything civil, however i've also been guilty of being frustrated and a bit offhand in the past and have had to be reminded of this myself.

Have you logged it as a bug?

http://bugs.madshi.net/view_all_bug_page.php

[huhn]

For the first ~5 seconds, the video renderer stays black, but the clip in general plays as you can hear from the dubbed audio, and the player window around the renderer rectangle (menu, controls, window border) is visible too; after the initial blackness, the video is visible, even if you stop and jump back to the beginning. So it just seems to have an initialization delay per clip, after opening the file, for the first playback start.

And yes, Aero Glass is disabled, I have an Aero Basic design (due to a few ancient applications which would force a switch to Aero Basic each time they start).

madVR and literal every other rednerer will not work proerply without aero.

can you make a screen of the OSD?

@mclingo
windowed and FSE are multali exclusive to each other...
ligh said only thevideo IN player get black not the whole screen which has nothing todo with madVR.
the black screen from FSE is a GPU driver/screen thing as is changing refreshrate it will take as long as the screen will take to do it.

[mclingo]

@HUHN - if the video being played is in full screen then it is the whole screen isnt it?, anyway, you're in a far better position technically to help with this, i'll bow out of this one.

Cheers.

[huhn]

it would be nice if you could make it clear if the screen is changing mode or not.

refreshrate changing will always create a blackscreen and switching between fullscreen windowed and FSE too.

you said you tried it with MPC-BE. so how does that this look? only the video window of mpc be or the whole screen?

[brazen1]

I too get the black screen while audio is playing for a few seconds. FSE vs windowed makes no difference. (Sometimes video playback is started and I can see it and then it flashes again. I don't what is occurring during the 'next' black screen flash) I turned off 'launch files in fullscreen' in MPC-HC so I could determine if the entire panel was going black or just the player. It's not just the player. The entire panel goes black. It's happening during automatic refresh rate change. Once the change is made, the video displays but not until then. This seems perfectly normal to me. What needs to happen is for the player to delay playback until the rate change is completed. I suppose different displays take different timing for the rate change but I'd guess about 4 seconds would cover most if not all. Switching into modes like 3D or HDR may add even more time on top of the rate change. We should also take into account the order in which software is deployed. If the player was last in line, it would give madVR a head start to fulfill its refresh rate command before playback started. (this is why controlling refresh rate switch from madVR is more efficient than letting the player control it) Maybe an additional command in madVR to 'delay video playback'. But madVR might be dependent on the player before it can execute anything? Ultimately, a setting in the player to 'delay video playback' for x amount of m/secs might be the best cure? Undoubtedly, that is not going to be adopted. Any ideas how to stall the player until refresh rate and mode changes have occurred?

I've already tried switch to matching display mode when it goes fullscreen or when video starts. That makes no difference fwiw. Also, you may have noticed it takes a few seconds AFTER playback to return to original resolution and rate. Lastly, delay switch to exclusive mode helps a bit but I remember in the past it was problematic with something specific in my usage and I'm too old to remember exactly what it was. Trying it again until I realize what that was. Delay start until queue is full doesn't seem to help either. As a matter of fact, it's completely broken for me. Player starts paused and pressing play does nothing. Could be it's not harmonious with some other setting I have someplace though? No idea. I'm using 385.28 GPU driver, W10 1803, and latest madVR, LAV Filters, and MPC-HC fwiw. ISO vs MKV makes no difference either. Of interest, FAB Player and PDVD start audio and video simultaneous after rate change.

[nussman]

It's happening during automatic refresh rate change. Once the change is made, the video displays but not until then. This seems perfectly normal to me.
It is "perfectly normal"!

Imho changing the refresh rate is nothing that should by done by the renderer, but its difficult for player and renderer to offer this option for all use cases.

A few seconds black sreens seems to be a good compromise for me ...

[huhn]

mpc-hc -> options -> playback -> fullscreen -> delay

edit: i have a screen that does it in about 200 ms this is a screen issue.

[mclingo]

I guess the easiest way to test the hypothesis that this is a screen issue is to setup madvr to play with same res / resfresh as your desktop so it doesnt have to change anything.

[brazen1]

I really don't mind the black screen either. I've become used to it yet I cringe every time it happens and noticed it really bothers others. As for the 'delay' setting in MPC, it's greyed out when you don't use the player to do the rate switching and are using madVR to control it instead. Also, I think 'delay' is going to delay the rate change itself which sort of exasperates the problem unless I'm mistaken which I often am.

[brazen1]

I guess the easiest way to test the hypothesis that this is a screen issue is to setup madvr to play with same res / resfresh as your desktop so it doesnt have to change anything.

Except it introduces lag with everything assuming you set them to 23/24Hz and destroys any Windows desktop usage. Also, what happens if you set to 24Hz and your video refresh rate is 25, 30, 60Hz which often is? Strangely enough, I just set GPU to 24Hz and started 24fps video. Still flashes to black for a few secs and starts MPC player paused. Pressing play starts audio but video is frozen on frame. There is more than meets the eye (pardon the pun) going on.

[mkohman]

Hi Guys.. I have a question that I hope you can help me understand better... I'm moving from 16:9 to a 2.39:1 screen and was wondering what madVR masking does and how it's used? Would appreciate if this could please be explained.. Many thanks

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[huhn]

I guess the easiest way to test the hypothesis that this is a screen issue is to setup madvr to play with same res / resfresh as your desktop so it doesnt have to change anything.

changing refreshrats take time that's a fact.

and you can easily test this.

mpc-hc default settigns with madVr as renderer.
reset madVR to defaults.
play a file in window mode.

@mkohman you have to be a lot more price about hat.

I really don't mind the black screen either. I've become used to it yet I cringe every time it happens and noticed it really bothers others. As for the 'delay' setting in MPC, it's greyed out when you don't use the player to do the rate switching and are using madVR to control it instead. Also, I think 'delay' is going to delay the rate change itself which sort of exasperates the problem unless I'm mistaken which I often am.

try it out. never used it myself.
and if i'm not mistaken madshi wants to add soemthign like that too.
who knows whats on this todo list.
you need to disable the madVr dispaly changer for that and it may not work with HDR not sure.

[mclingo]

yes but the delay is less than a second without MADVR though, this is the point we're discussing.

[Asmodian]

Hi Guys.. I have a question that I hope you can help me understand better... I'm moving from 16:9 to a 2.39:1 screen and was wondering what madVR masking does and how it's used? Would appreciate if this could please be explained.. Many thanks


This simply sets some of the screen area to black. It is intended for projectors which can have some image area overhang the screen.

This is the first example image I found, the blue line on the wall could be eliminated by setting up madVR's masking.
http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd496/asmodian3/images_zpsqcqpyist.jpg

I don't think it is useful for an ideal screen of any aspect ratio.

[mkohman]

This simply sets some of the screen area to black. It is intended for projectors which can have some image area overhang the screen.

This is the first example image I found, the blue line on the wall could be eliminated by setting up madVR's masking.
http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd496/asmodian3/images_zpsqcqpyist.jpg

I don't think it is useful for an ideal screen of any aspect ratio.Right.. So its basically for any spillage to the left or right of the screen? I thought it was to do with the black bars on a scope movie..?

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[Asmodian]

It could be the top or bottom too. Zoom Control, with its black bar detection, is for black bars. Masking is for this issue.

[mkohman]

It could be the top or bottom too. Zoom Control, with its black bar detection, is for black bars. Masking is for this issue.Ah.. I see. Can you please elaborate on the zoom control feature? I will be using my JVC to zoom in to fill the scope screen and the Black bars will be shooting above and below the screen.. What will the zoom control in madVR do for me? Sorry for the questions and thank you for your help..

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[SamuriHL]

Well that was definitely fun! I clean installed the latest nVidia driver and set up madvr for 4K HDR. WOW! What an absolutely amazing experience that is on the LG C8 OLED! madvr just impresses me more and more. Of course because I've run into some subtitle issues with the later builds of madvr I'm still using a slightly older build so I can't wait for the next build to get all the latest fixes and options. But I'm VERY glad I jumped to 4K. Thank you, madshi, awesome work as always!

[Asmodian]

Ah.. I see. Can you please elaborate on the zoom control feature? I will be using my JVC to zoom in to fill the scope screen and the Black bars will be shooting above and below the screen.. What will the zoom control in madVR do for me?


It simply crops/zooms the black bars away before the rest of the rending path. When cropping it even improves performance and you can have madVR output to an anamorphic lens at full resolution.

[mkohman]

It simply crops/zooms the black bars away before the rest of the rending path. When cropping it even improves performance and you can have madVR output to an anamorphic lens at full resolution.Thanks for the reply.. I will be using my projectors zoom and lens memory function to fill out the 2.39:1 screen not an anamorphic lens. Will this feature still be usable for me or not necessary? Thanks

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[Warner306]

Thanks for the reply.. I will be using my projectors zoom and lens memory function to fill out the 2.39:1 screen not an anamorphic lens. Will this feature still be usable for me or not necessary? Thanks

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You might get a better result if you let madVR handle the zoom. Easy enough to do and worth trying.

[Asmodian]

I agree, zooming with the lens means the pixels must get bigger on the screen. Better to let madVR do it and keep your PPI up. :)

[Siso]

Does anyone know what is causing 1 presentation glitch only? I changed one sharpener in the upscaling refinement options, went from adaptive sharpen to crispen edges, and I got 1 presentation glitch...I didn't have any with adaptive sharpen.

[Asmodian]

What do you mean by "got 1 presentation glitch?" Do you mean once per playback?

[Siso]

What do you mean by "got 1 presentation glitch?" Do you mean once per playback?

One presentation glitch during playback of a movie.

[Asmodian]

And you reset the OSD after playback starts? I would never worry about a single presentation glitch if it only happens during startup.

If it is happening after the first second or two, but only once per movie, it is probably performance related is some way. There are a lot of things that could cause one presentation glitch during a movie. Crispen edges is a tiny bit harder than AdaptiveSharpen (without anti-bloating).

Have your tried enabling/disabling D3D11, present a frame for every v-sync, or windowed overlay (make sure d3d11 is off when enabling overlay)? Those can give you a tiny bit of extra headroom but you cannot use the reported rendering times to judge them. You have to see how many glitches or frame drops you get when using each setting.

[Siso]

And you reset the OSD after playback starts? I would never worry about a single presentation glitch if it only happens during startup.

If it is happening after the first second or two, but only once per movie, it is probably performance related is some way. There are a lot of things that could cause one presentation glitch during a movie. Crispen edges is a tiny bit harder than AdaptiveSharpen (without anti-bloating).

Have your tried enabling/disabling D3D11, present a frame for every v-sync, or windowed overlay (make sure d3d11 is off when enabling overlay)? Those can give you a tiny bit of extra headroom but you cannot use the reported rendering times to judge them. You have to see how many glitches or frame drops you get when using each setting.

The presentation glitch occurs around 10-20 min during playback, I always reset the stats when I go in fullscreen. I use D3D9, with D3D11 I get triple times higher present stats (0,08 ms in D3D9 vs 0,39 ms). I'm on windows 7 64 bit.

[mkohman]

You might get a better result if you let madVR handle the zoom. Easy enough to do and worth trying.Thanks will definitely give it a go [emoji106]

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[Asmodian]

I use D3D9, with D3D11 I get triple times higher present stats (0,08 ms in D3D9 vs 0,39 ms). I'm on windows 7 64 bit.

I would not consider that difference to be at all useful when deciding between D3D9 and D3D11. They are measured in different ways by madVR, anything <1ms is the same as far as we know or care. Even if it was real, why do you care if present takes 300µs longer if it is more stable?

If using D3D9 let you use higher settings without drops or glitches it would be a good reason to use it but looking at the reported rendering and/or present times is not.

You are sure nothing is using your GPU every 10-20 minutes? No desktop slideshow or anything?

[Siso]

I would not consider that difference to be at all useful when deciding between D3D9 and D3D11. They are measured in different ways by madVR, anything <1ms is the same as far as we know or care. Even if it was real, why do you care if present takes 300µs longer if it is more stable?

If using D3D9 let you use higher settings without drops or glitches it would be a good reason to use it but looking at the reported rendering and/or present times is not.

You are sure nothing is using your GPU every 10-20 minutes? No desktop slideshow or anything?

I will test with D3D11, no desktop slideshow I doubt anything is interfering with the playback, cause before I didn't have presentation glitch. Maybe it is from the drivers 382.53 the card is GTX 1050 Ti.

[Manni]

I will test with D3D11, no desktop slideshow I doubt anything is interfering with the playback, cause before I didn't have presentation glitch. Maybe it is from the drivers 382.53 the card is GTX 1050 Ti.

Try 385.28

[Siso]

Try 385.28

A week ago I did, and I had video glitches and flicker in the desktop. So I rolled back to 382.53.

[LigH]

After a lot of testing, I found the reason for my delay issue.

I should not try to watch a video in boredom while having a D3D11 game in the background, waiting for a long process to finish. Not even when it's minimized down to the task bar.

Without any GPU-competing application, madVR appears almost immediately, and D3D9 overlay is fine for the basic videos and hardware I have.

[Asmodian]

Great news, I thought it was a strange issue. :)

[mclingo]

had another look at my delay, yeah so I forgot to mention that all my disks are spun spun down to save power / reduce heat so spinning them up when i play a movie adds to my delay.

doh...

[neo2018]

I have a 103" 2:35:1 screen, and my projector can crop the black bars, and some of the top/bottom/side content, so i can have the same image on 16:9 or 2:35:1 films:
https://i.imgur.com/1011OnS.png

Is it possible to do something similar with madVR?

[huhn]

yes.
device -> "device name" set to digital projector
-> screen config
and processing -> zoom control

[neo2018]

Perfect, thank you!

[SamuriHL]

Hey all, I have what I hope is a simple question. I'm now on a 4K LG OLED and I have the gamma set to BT.2020. What should I set for gamma in madvr to match that? I know this is total newbie land here but I'm still learning about the 4K world. Thanks!!!