madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[LigH]

Full-Screen Exclusive, I guess?

[huhn]

What's FSE? HDR passthrough feature should not depend on cpu in theory,i think.Because cpu doesn't natively decode HDR10 contents,cpu sends only HDR10 contents to the display or TV set which is in charge of decoding HDR10 contents.

it doesn't and by default lavfilter will use software decoding which uses your CPU.

[Polopretress]

Is there an explanation why , with the new update Win10 1803, the rendering time in FS windowed has been reduced drastically (from 10.5 msec to 6.5 msec for my case). It seems linked to NGU algorythm but not sure. Comparative screen does not show evidence of difference.
(same behaviour with the update of Nvidia driver to 397.93)

It is strange because in FSE mode, rendering time has not changed (compared to FS windowed).
Not changed except that screen is frozen at least 5 to 10 sec when display is switched from FSW to FSE...

TY

[huhn]

pointless without taking GPU powerstates under consideration.

[veggav]

Great. You can confirm 12-bit RGB is working by visiting the GPU control panel during playback. Some drivers have had issues retaining these settings, but it should be fine.

Thanks for all the help Warner. Your knowledge on the subject is really amazing.

I'm trying to match my experience with an HTPC with MadVR + Jriver (because it can play UHD BD Menus) with my OPPO 103D.

For some reason when playing the same file with the OPPO, a 1080p BD upscaled to 4k, compared to the HTPC I notice the details with more contrast while still visible. I've used AVS to set black level on both players.

When you have a scene with, let's say a candle, and poor light, while I can see all the details in both situations those seem more washed out with MadVR.

Is this related to gamma? Does my experience makes any sense?

[Warner306]

Thanks for all the help Warner. Your knowledge on the subject is really amazing.

I'm trying to match my experience with an HTPC with MadVR + Jriver (because it can play UHD BD Menus) with my OPPO 103D.

For some reason when playing the same file with the OPPO, a 1080p BD upscaled to 4k, compared to the HTPC I notice the details with more contrast while still visible. I've used AVS to set black level on both players.

When you have a scene with, let's say a candle, and poor light, while I can see all the details in both situations those seem more washed out with MadVR.

Is this related to gamma? Does my experience makes any sense?

I don't know. I would expect the image to be fairly identical. The display is getting nearly the same pixels with the same gamma corrected R'G'B' values as the source, with the extra pixels being added by NGU upscaling. That wouldn't wash out the image.

The Oppo is operating in Y'CbCr, while madVR is operating in RGB. I don't think that would make a difference. You could disable calibration controls in madVR in case that is interfering, but it shouldn't. It could be the display is introducing a difference when converting from RGB to Y'CbCr 4:2:2, if that's how it does things. It's hard to say.

Try setting madVR and the GPU to 8-bits to see if that changes anything. Maybe the display doesn't like the 12-bit input from the GPU. If you're using a PC input with the HTPC, try another input.

[Warner306]

I completely understand the average madVR user demands perfection. That can make them hard to deal with. I think I tolerate far more average sources than the average madVR user.

If there is any issue, it could come down to the PC. Trying different setting might improve things; it might not.

The last madVR user I talked to couldn't see any improvement with the Oppo and sent it back. So, the experience seems to vary. Again, you are dealing with a PC...

[jkauff]

I'm trying to match my experience with an HTPC with MadVR + Jriver (because it can play UHD BD Menus) with my OPPO 103D.
Make sure you've copied the latest version of madVR files into the MC 24 madVR folder (in "c:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins\madvr". JRiver doesn't use the most recent version.

[nevcairiel]

Make sure you've copied the latest version of madVR files into the MC 24 madVR folder (in "c:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins\madvr". JRiver doesn't use the most recent version.

Don't do that if you use Media Center to play Blu-ray Menus, since the latest madVR versions have a bug that break the menus. Hopefully madshi will have that fixed in the next version, but until then stick to the version MC ships.
There is usually a reason when its not up to date for a longer period of time. :p

[veggav]

Make sure you've copied the latest version of madVR files into the MC 24 madVR folder (in "c:\Users\[username]\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 24\Plugins\madvr". JRiver doesn't use the most recent version.

I haven't updated it but I had no idea about the menu bug in MadVR.

What I did is, took Asmodian settings from the MadVR Options Explained settings. The Heater settings.bin because I have the same gpu, a 1080 Ti.

Just changed a few things, thanks for Warren, and it's much more natural looking.
Added exclusive full screen to be able to use 10bit.
Made everything 12bit RGB full range on anything under 30hz.
Also activated this display is calibrated to DCI.

And calibrated with AVS test patterns that are rec709 to avoid black clipping or white clipping.

Also my TV doesn't trigger DCI mode with MadVR for 1080p content. Which is kind of annoying to keep going into picture menu and changing color space from auto to DCI when I start to play a movie.

Still isn't that bad because my TV doesn't trigger game mode when 4k 60hz 4:4:4 is on, is goes into graphics mode and automatic mode detection is on.
So when watching movies I have to manually go into Cinema pro mode, just a few more clicks and change auto to DCI.

And that's basically it I'm doing.

[Warner306]

Is the processing used by your TV any different than when you use your Blu-ray player?

Also, try setting calibration to BT.2020. The display is likely expecting BT.2020. Maybe this will also fix your color issue. I assume you’re referring to SDR mode.

You might also want to try BT.709 to see if it makes any difference.

[Warner306]

And I didn't mean to be insulting with the quest for perfection comment. I was just saying it isn't easy to tweak things to be perfect. There are too many factors involved to get it right for every system with every source.

[veggav]

And I didn't mean to be insulting with the quest for perfection comment. I was just saying it isn't easy to tweak things to be perfect. There are too many factors involved to get it right for every system with every source.

No worries, Warner. You have been of great help.
Right now I'm away from home and I'll only be able to test those settings further when I'm back.

I'll try to take some pictures for comparison but I believe I'm 90% there with madVR, it might be just be a matter of one of two tweaks. Also I've slowing reading your guide on all the settings to understand those properly.
Once again, thank you.

[Warner306]

I would disable calibration controls in madVR and try sending the source through as BT.709. The color space conversion is most likely place for things to go wrong if you aren't using something like PC or game mode on the TV.

[veggav]

I would disable calibration controls in madVR and try sending the source through as BT.709. The color space conversion is most likely place for things to go wrong if you aren't using something like PC or game mode on the TV.

That might be it?
I'm using Game mode while using it as a desktop and when I start a movie I change it to Cinema pro.

I'll test those chroma subsampling test patterns to find out if chroma is being downsampled to 4:2:0 while in Cinema pro mode.

[har3inger]

Is there an explanation why , with the new update Win10 1803, the rendering time in FS windowed has been reduced drastically (from 10.5 msec to 6.5 msec for my case). It seems linked to NGU algorythm but not sure. Comparative screen does not show evidence of difference.
(same behaviour with the update of Nvidia driver to 397.93)

It is strange because in FSE mode, rendering time has not changed (compared to FS windowed).
Not changed except that screen is frozen at least 5 to 10 sec when display is switched from FSW to FSE...

TY

The freezing is common to all windows 1803, and is due to focus assist. Turn off all of focus assist to fix FSE.

I'm also getting much lower render times, but "true" render times seem to be the same, and they're just incorrectly reported. I drop frames at the same rate with slightly too taxing settings before and after the update regardless of what the OSD says is the render time.

[Polopretress]

OK good news. thank you for this information. I have asked several time this question and did not have feedback.

"Turn off all of focus assist" : what do you mean ? is this option in the zoom menu of madVR ?
Is it a good solution to remove this update and go back to 1709 waiting for a better day ?

[jkauff]

Don't do that if you use Media Center to play Blu-ray Menus, since the latest madVR versions have a bug that break the menus. Hopefully madshi will have that fixed in the next version, but until then stick to the version MC ships.
There is usually a reason when its not up to date for a longer period of time. :p
That's odd. I'm using the latest madVR with MC 24 and the menus work fine (thanks for that feature, BTW). I'm using all 64-bit, maybe it's a 32-bit version problem?

[Asmodian]

"Turn off all of focus assist" : what do you mean ? is this option in the zoom menu of madVR ?

It is a new Windows 10 feature, search Windows 10's settings for "focus assist".

[Polopretress]

It is a new Windows 10 feature, search Windows 10's settings for "focus assist".
Thank you so much.
I was not aware of this new feature which is named completly differently en French windows .....

I have tested and disable and all works fine now.
This new feature is very closed from the function "exclusive" but more open to configuration. Is it forcasted by Microsoft to be a replacement of the actual FSE ?

I'm also getting much lower render times, but "true" render times seem to be the same, and they're just incorrectly reported. I drop frames at the same rate with slightly too taxing settings before and after the update regardless of what the OSD says is the render time.
I agree. i have just done the test by increasing some feature of madVR and drops are present with a rendering time of 32msec instead of 41.6 msec on a 23.976 fps movie. This counter is now wrong in FSW

[suanm]

I wanna ask the senior masters here about how to turn off madVR smooth motion features and restore original frame rate,for example restoration of 23.976 fps.Because my cpu usage is so high that the 4K uhd images appear choppy and the sounds appear stammering,I think it should get possibly better to turn off maVR smooth motion features.
Would senior masters here like to feed back to Mr.madshi about the bug?

[ryrynz]

You said it yourself your CPU load is high.. Ain't no bug.

[suanm]

If it's not a bug,How to turn off madVR smooth motion? i was trying many ways not to turn off the feature.

[JamesG76]

I'm having many problems all of a sudden, and I need help.
First, my HZ on my TV used to be 23.97600-23.97602 or so, now when I set windows to 23HZ mpc-hc stats say it's at 23.979. If I set a custom mode, the closest I can get is 23.97655, which causes a repeat every 20-30 minutes, not terrible but I can't see a reason this changed. I updated to Windows 10 1803 and my Sony X930E TV firmware updated around that time as well. Video Card is GTX 1080Ti, and I've tried going back several driver versions, would anyone know a cause or fix?

Secondly, I am having trouble entering Full Screen Exclusive mode, sometimes it takes 30 seconds or more, sometimes it never happens, with the result being that my Windows on my other monitor become laggy.

I've re-installed Windows 10 1803 and run the default settings batch file in madvr directory, and with nothing installed or changed on the system, both issues happened again immediately.

My last question, I was thinking of building a dedicated PC for movie watching, I thought I read somewhere that Radeon's have better chip timing or what have you over Nvidia cards for true 23.976 playback, is this true? I want 4K+HDR, so which would be the best card for this to put into this new PC (price not an issue).

[huhn]

@suanm
madVR uses the GPU not the CPU to use smoothmotion.
you uncheck smoothmotion to disable it that'S all.
if you get high CPU usasges with DXVA copyback you may need a GPU or CPU that can decode HEVC first...

@JamesG76
you don't try to get 23.976 to stop frames from repeating/dropping if you try todo that you missed the point why there is even a repeated dropped frame.

and yes AMD is usually closer to 23.976 but that'S not the source of the underlying problem.

[JamesG76]

I'm no expert on this stuff, but I thought if the video FPS was 23.976 and the display is over or under that, then the video will become out of sync from the audio and you need to repeat or drop frames to get them back in sync. Where should I start if that is not the problem?

[madjock]

I'm no expert on this stuff, but I thought if the video FPS was 23.976 and the display is over or under that, then the video will become out of sync from the audio and you need to repeat or drop frames to get them back in sync. Where should I start if that is not the problem?


Bit in-depth, but have a look at this, just for the explanation at least.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=173571

Ironically, I fixed mine with this link below, and just had to change 1 figure, but maybe a fluke, and as has been said it does not sit at 23.976 when playing, more like 23.97544 once it stabilises for me anyway, and must be right for the audio clock to synch on my setup, as I get a few hours.

https://forum.redfox.bz/threads/how-to-achieve-perfect-23-976hz-24p-with-nvidia.72844/

I went back to older drivers to see if that helped, running 390.77 at the moment. I also updated to the latest Windows Insider build Version 1803 OS Build 17682.1000 and apart from having to create a custom resolution again with the 2nd link, its working fine.

[suanm]

@huhn
I'm surprised my cpu usages are not too high(around 28% cpu usages) as I play 4k HDR movies with potplay and its in-built D3D11 renderer.Only disadvantage with the playback way is that HDR passthrough doesn't work.I only watch 4k SDR movies although my TV set and original movies are with HDR features.

[suanm]

@huhn
When i decrease resolution to 2556*1600P,seems to play fluently movies with madVR HDR passthrough mode.Can you give me some useful advice about how to optimize CPU usages while the playback of 4K HDR movies?
Thank you.

[madjock]

@huhn
When i decrease resolution to 2556*1600P,seems to play fluently movies with madVR HDR passthrough mode.Can you give me some useful advice about how to optimize CPU usages while the playback of 4K HDR movies?
Thank you.

You have not really explained what you are trying to do, what Graphics card you have and the likes.

It sounds more like you have the settings up way to high on any scaling settings and hammering your system.

If you explained more about what setup you have, and what you are trying to do, then there will be better answers, as the smooth motion you mention does not fit in with what your problems are.

https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787

http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

[el Filou]

@huhn
I'm surprised my cpu usages are not too high(around 28% cpu usages) as I play 4k HDR movies with potplay and its in-built D3D11 renderer.Whatever madVR feature is hogging your CPU, it's not smoothmotion.
It could be:
- software/copyback video decoding
- black bars detection & cropping
- film cadence detection
- HDR per-frame peak brightness analysis (not sure about this one)

Try to fiddle with those and see if the CPU load gets better.

[ryrynz]

When i decrease resolution to 2556*1600P,seems to play fluently movies with madVR HDR passthrough mode.


Screenshot your OSD playing 4K movie and also playing 2556*1600P.

[JamesG76]

Bit in-depth, but have a look at this, just for the explanation at least.


I just put 23.976 into CRU and mpc-hc is reporting 23.97597, which results in a drop in 1-5 days or no expected drops. Thanks.

[jkauff]

Whatever madVR feature is hogging your CPU, it's not smoothmotion.
It could be:
- software/copyback video decoding
- black bars detection & cropping
- film cadence detection
- HDR per-frame peak brightness analysis (not sure about this one)

Try to fiddle with those and see if the CPU load gets better.
Unless the GPU has a dedicated H.265 decoder built in, just decoding H.265 content will use a lot of CPU power--too much for many older CPUs.

[Crimson Wolf]

Along with a new nvidia driver (http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us), they also released a firmware update that enables support for DisplayPort 1.3 / 1.4 displays. However, on some pages linking to the firmware update utility, there's a reference to (guru3d):

The firmware allows 10 and 12 bit per channel signal output when an HDR “signal” is detected.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/nv-uefi-update-x64.html

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-releases-firmware-update-tool-to-support-displayport-1-3-and-1-4-displays.html

Just a little warning if you edited your vBIOS to overclock or undervolt, or whatever, the utility probably will fail until you reflash it with the original vBIOS.

[Warner306]

No news from veggav with the Oppo? I was wondering if he got the two players to look the same. After talking to a VLC troll today, I wonder if his Oppo has sharpening enabled or uses it as part of its upscaling? The kind of difference he is explaining sounds similar to difference the VLC guy was showing me. Maybe it has nothing to do with color and is more about pixel sharpening?

If the Oppo is outdoing madVR, it's not impossible, but it would be nice to give madVR a shot.

[sauma144]

Well, your 1080Ti might sit idle right now, but it might not stay that way... From the looks of it, my next algo (no upscaling this time), when processing 4K content, is going to be at least 5x slower than NGU Very High 4K -> 8K upscaling would be, which I don't think even a 1080Ti can handle.

:eek:

[Crimson Wolf]

One thing to note, with the new nvidia drivers (3.98.11), 23p mode for me now switches from 2+ days expected frame drop to no expected frame drop!

[theDongerr]

No news from veggav with the Oppo? I was wondering if he got the two players to look the same. After talking to a VLC troll today, I wonder if his Oppo has sharpening enabled or uses it as part of its upscaling? The kind of difference he is explaining sounds similar to difference the VLC guy was showing me. Maybe it has nothing to do with color and is more about pixel sharpening?

If the Oppo is outdoing madVR, it's not impossible, but it would be nice to give madVR a shot.

I used to own the Oppo 103D and wonder if he had the Darby Edition with Darby Sharpening enabled. I used to own both the 103D (Darby Ed) as well as the Oppo 203. MadVR + jRiver is absolutely comparable and, imo, better than either Oppo player.

I scale all 1080p 1:1 rips to 4k, bt.709 to 4k and present all 24hz content to 60hz using Smooth Motion.

Also am using MadVR pixel-shaders for playing 1:1 UHD rips (mkv, not full menu) and converting HDR->SDR. If setup correctly, MadVR is the clear winner over the Oppo for SDR2020 playback. 1000 peak nits titles looking amazing, but 4000 peak nits titles... the black floor seems raised if only slightly. Hoping madshi implements a 'peak nits' variable for the pseudo-code that switches profiles in the next release.

Granted, my display has been calibrated for both Bt.709 content as well as SDR2020 content.

Question I still have: Is it safe for Windows10 users to install the Spring update? Everything works perfectly with regard to MadVR and playback -- I don't wanna monkeywrench anything.

[Warner306]

I used to own the Oppo 103D and wonder if he had the Darby Edition with Darby Sharpening enabled. I used to own both the 103D (Darby Ed) as well as the Oppo 203. MadVR + jRiver is absolutely comparable and, imo, better than either Oppo player.

I scale all 1080p 1:1 rips to 4k, bt.709 to 4k and present all 24hz content to 60hz using Smooth Motion.

Also am using MadVR pixel-shaders for playing 1:1 UHD rips (mkv, not full menu) and converting HDR->SDR. If setup correctly, MadVR is the clear winner over the Oppo for SDR2020 playback. 1000 peak nits titles looking amazing, but 4000 peak nits titles... the black floor seems raised if only slightly. Hoping madshi implements a 'peak nits' variable for the pseudo-code that switches profiles in the next release.

Granted, my display has been calibrated for both Bt.709 content as well as SDR2020 content.

Question I still have: Is it safe for Windows10 users to install the Spring update? Everything works perfectly with regard to MadVR and playback -- I don't wanna monkeywrench anything.

Fullscreen exclusive mode might not work. Your rendering times may go down artificially or the present queue might not fill. Or, it might be fine. It's your choice.

[ryrynz]

One thing to note, with the new nvidia drivers (3.98.11), 23p mode for me now switches from 2+ days expected frame drop to no expected frame drop!

I only have one custom mode in the Nvidia Control panel set for 23Hz and I tried this driver hoping that I may not even need to set that..
I get a frame repeat every twelve minutes as opposed to a frame drop every three minutes with 385.28 when not using the custom mode.
However, once again like every other driver after this it won't add the custom mode if I change the drop down box to select manual timings, so back to 385.28 I go. Pathetic.

Ayy, I got it to stick by modifying 24Hz instead and added that to the list of resolutions madVR can switch to. Hurrah, now no frame drops/repeats with 398.11.

[suanm]

@ryrynz;@el Filou;@madjock
First of all,Thank you very much for your replies.
My cpu AMD 8450X3;video card:nVidia gtx 1050 3g(bought it two months ago)
player: potplayer or mpc-hd;LAV spitter,LAV video decoder;LAV audio decoder,D3D11 dxva11 native mode;renderer:madshi
I did some tests yesterday for the playback of 4K HDR movies.

I found if i decreased TV set resolution to 3150*2160p,i played smoothly and fluently 4K HDR movies.
My cpu usages are around 47%~55%;gpu usages are around 35%~50%;hardly dropt frames.

If i decreased tv set resolution to 3050*2160p,when the playback of the 4k HDR movies.
My cpu usgaes are around 27%~35%;gpu usages are around 35%~50%;not dropt frames.

If i decreased tv set resolution to 3250*2160p,when the playback of them
My cpu usages suddenly get around 85%~93%~100%;gpu usages are around 50%~60%;sharply dropt frames.

If I decreased tv set resolution to 3350*2160p and over
My cpu usages suddenly get around 85%~93%~100%;gpu usages are around 50%~60%;sharply dropt frames.

I don't know what's going on.MadVR HDR passthrough doesn't work suddenly.In fact the HDR passthrough worked perfectly the day before yesterday.whatever i played yesterday,it didn't work.

[ryrynz]

Like I said, take a screen shot with your OSD up (CTRL-J) in the various resolutions you're using.

[suanm]

@ryrynz
With my cell phone I've taken several photos on which there were madvr OSD status,cpu usages and gpu usages as well.Unfortunatedly,these photos can't be uploaded to the post

OSD status:chroma>super->xbr ;image<ssim1D100

[ryrynz]

Upload to a file sharing host you can just paste the links here.

[takenori]

anyone tested the latest nvidia driver and firmware update for displayport yet? any benefits if youre not using GysncHDR display and just a reguler HDR display?

[Crimson Wolf]

I only have one custom mode in the Nvidia Control panel set for 23Hz and I tried this driver hoping that I may not even need to set that..
I get a frame repeat every twelve minutes as opposed to a frame drop every three minutes with 385.28 when not using the custom mode.
However, once again like every other driver after this it won't add the custom mode if I change the drop down box to select manual timings, so back to 385.28 I go. Pathetic.

Ayy, I got it to stick by modifying 24Hz instead and added that to the list of resolutions madVR can switch to. Hurrah, now no frame drops/repeats with 398.11.

Hmm. I didn't use any custom mode, just a clean default 23p. Custom modes always was buggy for me.

[ryrynz]

Perhaps it's related to the card you've. I'm running a G1 Gaming 1060 6GB.

[x7007]

So the new Nvidia Drivers always stay on Output Dynamic Range to FULL when using the Use Default color settings. make sure when you are using HDR Mode you have Black Level set to HIGH on your TV . for me OLED LG TV . or else you will have White dots and crushed blacks. or if you want the other way is to select Use Nvidia color settings and change to LIMITED and stay on TV Black Level to LOW.

[Mano]

Not sure if this is the correct place to ask but i recently notice during anime playback, when the scene is moving there is noticeable vertical tearing just 1cm above the bottom. For movie the tearing is more subtle and mostly only during high action scene. I am using default madvr setting + mpc-hc.

Anyone know what is wrong with my setup?