madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Sm3n]

average rendering time in OSD (Ctrl+J).
If there're 60 frames per second - then each frame should be rendered faster than 1/60 = 0.0166 s = 16.6 ms.

Thx :)

Here is my Ctrl+j:

http://i.imgur.com/I5a6U2b.jpg

[michkrol]

Thx :)

Here is my Ctrl+j

As mentioned by vivan, you have to make sure your average rendering time is lower than movie frame interval. In your case it is higher (20.01ms vs 16.68ms). With 23.976fps progressive content you get over 40ms frame interval, so over twice the time for you GPU to process a single frame, hence BDs play fine.

You should create profiles for your settings. The number of profiles is not limited, so you could create them for various combinations of source resolution and framerate or go the easy/lazy route and create just 2 profiles - one for interlaced/high framerate content and one for progressive/low framerate content. You can get much more creative, but minimal auto-load rules could be:
if (deintFps<31) "lowFPS"
else "highFPS"
to load profile named lowFPS or highFPS depending on the framerate after deinterlacing (simplifying, the actual number of frames per second madVR has to process).

[Sm3n]

I believe I don't need to create more profile because the videos always played fine on my computer. I already have 2 profiles able to handle all videos (in past).

I changed the "chroma upscaling" in madVR, from Jinc 8 taps to 4 taps. And now it's playing fine. o_O??

I don't understand why I need to change that, now.

[seiyafan]

Jinc8 is very intensive compare to Jinc3/4 yet it brings minimum visual difference.

[ikakun]

Hi guys, I'm new here but been following this thread for a year now.

I'd just like to ask something; do some of you AMD GPU users experience performance drop in NNEDI3 after updating to the latest AMD Catalyst Driver 14.4?

Before I update my driver to 14.4, I can do NNEDI3 16 on luma for my 720p24 videos. Because I can't do NNEDI3 16 luma for 720p24, I reverted back to my previous driver and can now do NNEDI3 16 luma for 720p24. One thing I notice on 14.4 is alternative interop hack performs slightly better compared to the default interop hack. But that being said, I still experience frame drops on both interop hacks using 14.4.

Another question; will image upscaling still matters if I do luma doubling on 720p to a 1920:1080 display?

Image upscaling still affects rendering times even using luma doubling so I used Bicubic75ar, Bilinear or Nearest Neighbor instead of using jinc3ar. Is that OK?

[Mr6686]

Yes, with amd 14.4 driver (in exclusive mode, with only certain video) I saw a performance drop in rendering time (~15ms > ~150ms). So back to 13.12.

[BeNooL]

Seeing madVR already computes and collects various performance stats, could we imagine having profile switching based on rendering time ?

[nevcairiel]

Seeing madVR already computes and collects various performance stats, could we imagine having profile switching based on rendering time ?

The rendering time isn't always reliable, and fluctuations in the time may cause your profile to constantly switch back and forth, which is why madshi said this is not really going to be a useful thing.

[n3w813]

Madshi,
Has the API changed with the latest MadTPG (1.0.4.0)? I'm getting a "Error - new_disprd() failed with Window access failed" when DispcalGUI is trying to access MadTPG for pattern generation.

MadVR 0.87.10
DispcalGUI 2.0.0.0
ArgyllCMS 1.6.3

Thanks

[n3w813]

Rolling back to MadTPG 1.0.3.0 (01/23/2014) fixes the issue. Is this something Florian needs to fix on DispcalGUI?

Madshi,
Has the API changed with the latest MadTPG (1.0.4.0)? I'm getting a "Error - new_disprd() failed with Window access failed" when DispcalGUI is trying to access MadTPG for pattern generation.

MadVR 0.87.10
DispcalGUI 2.0.0.0
ArgyllCMS 1.6.3

Thanks

[leeperry]

Yes, with amd 14.4 driver (in exclusive mode, with only certain video) I saw a performance drop in rendering time (~15ms > ~150ms). So back to 13.12.
Oh indeed, I used to be able to run 64x chroma + 256x luma on 576x320@25p(with an Haswell PCI-E 3.0 H87 system & a HD7850) and now I can't even swing 32x chroma + 128x luma....using the alternate lag "fix" doesn't help either, I guess that's quickly gonna get on madshi's nerves if he has to rework his fixes with every new driver release. 14.4 wasn't worth the +4 months wait, rolling back to 13.12 when I'll find the patience :rolleyes:

The rendering time isn't always reliable, and fluctuations in the time may cause your profile to constantly switch back and forth, which is why madshi said this is not really going to be a useful thing.
An "auto-sensing" NNEDI option based on whether queues fill up would be full of win :)

[sajara]

14.4 wasn't worth the +4 months wait, rolling back to 13.12 when I'll find the patience


Thanks for letting us know.

I'm very happy with the performance of my 6570M/5730M in MadVR with driver 13.12. I think I'm going to stay fixed with it, unless there is any worthwhile improvement in some video area in the future.

[leeperry]

Now I kinda wonder whether 13.9 would be any faster than 13.12 as I had weird crashes with 13.12 a few times, I think I might give 13.9 a shot while I'm at it...just need to look up which version nailed down the 7850 black screen problem as it gave me cold sweat on XP and I don't wanna go through this again on W7.

[sajara]

Now I kinda wonder whether 13.9 would be any faster than 13.12

In my case from 13.9 to 13.12 was going from desktop to fullscreen exclusive from about 1.5 seconds to half the time in the same official MadVR release we used in 6 December. After that, madshi managed to improve that even more and it is almost instantaneous now on my system (if video is 30/60fps, changing to 50hz screen for 24/25fps of course, takes its time, nothing to do with madvr). Full screen windowed mode is really instantaneous with the new mode (also lagged a bit in 13.9, and slightly improved in 13.12 but in the old mode).

[Qaq]

Now I kinda wonder whether 13.9 would be any faster than 13.12Say goodbye to NNEDI3 then. 13.12 is the first driver with D3D9 <-> OpenCL interop.

[leeperry]

I recall someone claiming here in that thread that 13.9 was working fine with mVR, but maybe he wasn't using NNEDI then......anyway I did get the 7850 black screen on several occasions with 13.9 on XP so 13.12 it is :)

[Knight77]

Guys today which do you prefer to run MPHC+madVR and XBMC: Windows 7 or 8?

Inviato dal mio Nexus 7 utilizzando Tapatalk

[Andy o]

Of course I understand that if you know for a fact that your content is really film only, and every part of it is 3:2 cadence, then there's no need to use 60Hz and you can simply use 23Hz instead. But this once again requires your input: You need to tell madVR that you know that the content is straight 23Hz all the way through. Maybe I should add an option for that.

Thanks for adding decimation madshi. My use case is also 720/60p film content (In the US - Cosmos on Fox pretty much). Being able to force refresh at 23/24Hz would be a great option in the future.

Anyway, that's just the current situation. I've some ideas for future builds. At the moment I've just implemented 720p50/60 decimation for the first time, so please just test whether it generally works, report bugs/problems you find, and please live for now with whatever shortcomings there might be. Once we've ironed out whatever bugs there might be, maybe I'll polish the whole thing to make everyone happy.

Will do!

[Stereodude]

Thanks for adding decimation madshi. My use case is also 720/60p film content (In the US - Cosmos on Fox pretty much). Being able to force refresh at 23/24Hz would be a great option in the future.
Does it work for you? I've tried it and can't see any sign that it is doing anything. I'm playing known film source 720p60 with a 3:2 repeating frame pattern and have it set to force film mode. I must be missing a step.

Edit: Yes, I missed the Ctrl+Shift+Alt+T x2 step. Now it works fine.

[Stereodude]

Shouldn't deintFps be 24FPS for 720p60 material that is detected as film mode 6:4? That doesn't seem to be the case. My profile rule of if ((srcWidth <= 1300) and (deintFps < 31)) "HighQ" picks the default, not HighQ.

[huhn]

Shouldn't deintFps be 24FPS for 720p60 material that is detected as film mode 6:4? That doesn't seem to be the case. My profile rule of if ((srcWidth <= 1300) and (deintFps < 31)) "HighQ" picks the default, not HighQ.

it should be 6:4 CADENCE or 3:2 repeating frame pattern. MadVR OSD shows 6:4 cadence not the repeating frame pattern.
deint FPS is 120
IVTC fps should be 24
try to use FPS not deintfps it is not interlaced at all. the stream is progressive.

[Andy o]

Does it work for you? I've tried it and can't see any sign that it is doing anything. I'm playing known film source 720p60 with a 3:2 repeating frame pattern and have it set to force film mode. I must be missing a step.

Edit: Yes, I missed the Ctrl+Shift+Alt+T x2 step. Now it works fine.

If I'm not mistaken, from what I've understood from what madshi has said, right now it only works for refresh at 60Hz w/smooth motion. I'm not sure ctrl+shift+alt+T should be enabled here, it forces deinterlacing, either in video or film mode. Also it doesn't switch to 23/24Hz like I think it used to do before.

[Stereodude]

it should be 6:4 CADENCE or 3:2 repeating frame pattern. MadVR OSD shows 6:4 cadence not the repeating frame pattern.
deint FPS is 120
IVTC fps should be 24
try to use FPS not deintfps it is not interlaced at all. the stream is progressive.
There is no FPS variable. There is srcFps, but that's not going to work since it's 60. FWIW, the deintFps for the clip is reported as 60, not 120. Since madVR is applying an IVTC with a 6:4 cadence it seems that the deintFps should be reported as 24.

If I'm not mistaken, from what I've understood from what madshi has said, right now it only works for refresh at 60Hz w/smooth motion. I'm not sure ctrl+shift+alt+T should be enabled here, it forces deinterlacing, either in video or film mode. Also it doesn't switch to 23/24Hz like I think it used to do before.
If you don't ctrl+shift+alt+T twice it won't use film mode to force the IVTC since 720p60 is otherwise treated as progressive and deinterlacing is disabled.

[huhn]

If I'm not mistaken, from what I've understood from what madshi has said, right now it only works for refresh at 60Hz w/smooth motion. I'm not sure ctrl+shift+alt+T should be enabled here, it forces deinterlacing, either in video or film mode. Also it doesn't switch to 23/24Hz like I think it used to do before.

it works totally fine with a refresh rate of 23p, but this is dangerous if the stream is switching from 6:4 cadence to 4:4 or 2:2 you run in huge problems. a miss detection will result in a problem too. at 59p this effect is very very minimal.

so 59p + SM is a very very save choice.

[StinDaWg]

it works totally fine with a refresh rate of 23p, but this is dangerous if the stream is switching from 6:4 cadence to 4:4 or 2:2 you run in huge problems. a miss detection will result in a problem too. at 59p this effect is very very minimal.

so 59p + SM is a very very save choice.
Except in the case where I and others are 100% sure that the entire video is 6:4 there is no problem switching to 23hz. Stop trying to make this a bigger deal than it is. It's just a matter of madshi adding a force film option to 59/60 fps videos.

[TheElix]

Search the changelog for "tag". And try which syntax works intead of asking... ;)Madshi, I've deliberately searched through the changelog.txt but didn't find much about tags' syntax or rules of usage. I've tried adding "whitelevel=+25" in the filename in different ways but it won't work. Also, how would you use tagging with BluRay format storage (index.bdmv)?

Edit: Figured this out, thanks to michkrol.

[michkrol]

There is no FPS variable. There is srcFps, but that's not going to work since it's 60. FWIW, the deintFps for the clip is reported as 60, not 120. Since madVR is applying an IVTC with a 6:4 cadence it seems that the deintFps should be reported as 24.

In the mean time you could probably use if (srcFps>=59) and (filmMode) "profile1" for the auto-load rules.

Madshi, I've deliberately searched through the changelog.txt but didn't find much about tags' syntax or rules of usage. I've tried adding "whitelevel=+25" in the filename in different ways but it won't work. Also, how would you use tagging with BluRay format storage (index.bdmv)?

Changelogs for v0.85.4 and v0.87.0 are probably most important.
Adding exactly whitelevel=+25 works here. The no longer supported format is whitelevel +25 (with space between), since sometimes tags matched movies' titles.
MadVR supports tags in file and directories' names, so use this if unable to change filename.

[huhn]

Except in the case where I and others are 100% sure that the entire video is 6:4 there is no problem switching to 23hz. Stop trying to make this a bigger deal than it is. It's just a matter of madshi adding a force film option to 59/60 fps videos.


it works totally fine with a refresh rate of 23p

what do you need more?

and nice that you now it is 6:4 that doesn't mean it will be always detected like this...

what is wrong with answer a question and say why it works now this way? tell me please.

you look really really unhappy with that decision...

[TheElix]

Changelogs for v0.85.4 and v0.87.0 are probably most important.
Adding exactly whitelevel=+25 works here. The no longer supported format is whitelevel +25 (with space between), since sometimes tags matched movies' titles.
MadVR supports tags in file and directories' names, so use this if unable to change filename.
You're right, it works. Couldn't tell until I did SBS comparison. :rolleyes:' Thanks for the Folders tip!

[StinDaWg]

what do you need more?

and nice that you now it is 6:4 that doesn't mean it will be always detected like this...

what is wrong with answer a question and say why it works now this way? tell me please.

you look really really unhappy with that decision...
No decision has been made. madshi said he would consider adding force film mode later on. It's really annoying that you keep posting that people should use smooth motion like it solves the problem when it doesn't for people who have tvs that do proper 24p better than madVRs implementation. Frame blending is worse than tvs that can do 24p at multiples like 96hz. It's like you're almost campaigning for features not to be added because you don't need it. Good for you.

[huhn]

No decision has been made. madshi said he would consider adding force film mode later on. It's really annoying that you keep posting that people should use smooth motion like it solves the problem when it doesn't for people who have tvs that do proper 24p better than madVRs implementation. Frame blending is worse than tvs that can do 24p at multiples like 96hz. It's like you're almost campaigning for features not to be added because you don't need it. Good for you.
i never said an option like this a bad idea or useless. i only say 60 + SM is the safe choice and why it is.

like i said before your point is totally fine with me i totally understand why you like that. you can do this with a profile right now. and i don't say this to say this option is not needed!

i just get the feeling you real real hate this behavior.

by the way i use 23p too, it is way better for testing in my point of view. and i avoid SM as much as possible too. i think i see ghosting with it and no ghosting without. and it looks like it is broken for 720p60 with 6:4 at 60 hz refresh rate + SM. but no one else reported this as far as i can see so i shouldn't say don't use 60 hz + force film mode + SM.

If I'm not mistaken, from what I've understood from what madshi has said, right now it only works for refresh at 60Hz w/smooth motion. I'm not sure ctrl+shift+alt+T should be enabled here, it forces deinterlacing, either in video or film mode. Also it doesn't switch to 23/24Hz like I think it used to do before.

and how do you answer this... without saying why? i just tell him it works fine for 23p too and why it switches to 59p right now not 23p, because it can? not because it is a save choice for 720p60 and working as intended?
i should have added that it still switches to 23p or should for 30i 60 fields sources...

or am i miss interpreting this post? http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1679256#post1679256

[Andy o]

like i said before your point is totally fine with me i totally understand why you like that. you can do this with a profile right now. and i don't say this to say this option is not needed!
How do you do this with a profile?

and how do you answer this... without saying why? i just tell him it works fine for 23p too and why it switches to 59p right now not 23p, because it can? not because it is a save choice for 720p60 and working as intended?
i should have added that it still switches to 23p or should for 30i 60 fields sources...

or am i miss interpreting this post? http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1679256#post1679256

I didn't know it still switched to 23/24Hz for 60i sources. Before (again, if I'm not mistaken) even 60p content used to switch to 24Hz when forcing film mode. The other thing I was saying is that even for 60p it forced also deinterlacing. I think what we're asking for here is to just disable the deinterlacing for this content and just stick with decimation (and keep the 23/24Hz refresh). Unless I'm missing something, it's not possible right now. Even when I do the refreshrate=23 or fps=23 tags, it appears decimation is not working without forcing deinterlacing also.

[Sm3n]

Jinc8 is very intensive compare to Jinc3/4 yet it brings minimum visual difference.

Yes. You're probably right. I'll leave it that way.

Cheers

[huhn]

How do you do this with a profile?

In the mean time you could probably use if (srcFps>=59) and (filmMode) "profile1" for the auto-load rules.

the rest is in the first 3 posts.

I didn't know it still switched to 23/24Hz for 60i sources. Before (again, if I'm not mistaken) even 60p content used to switch to 24Hz when forcing film mode.The other thing I was saying is that even for 60p it forced also deinterlacing.

before it was always switching to 23p. but it wasn't decimating at all. of cause it dropped frames so it is decimating to match the refrash rate but this is not the same. this new feature is a smart decimation is drops only repeated frames nothing else.

I think what we're asking for here is to just disable the deinterlacing for this content and just stick with decimation (and keep the 23/24Hz refresh).
StinDaWg asked for a possibility to force 23p when Decimation is active (force film mode) for 720p60 source so he get smooth playback without smoothmotion. you can't use display modes for this currently so you have to do this with a profile or manual.

but are you asking for auto decimation of 720p60 or always 23p refreshrate? just read the post of Madshi the answer should be in there. this build is a test to look how good it works nothing else to trigger it you need Force film mode at the moment.

Unless I'm missing something, it's not possible right now. Even when I do the refreshrate=23 or fps=23 tags, it appears decimation is not working without forcing deinterlacing also.

the normal decimation of MadVR is currently bad. so if vsync interval is lower than the movie frame interval the result is bad.

you have to active force film mode currently to use the new smart decimation feature. this new feature uses the MadVR IVTC algorithm to search for repeated frames and only drops repeated frame nothing else a normal decimation drops frames to match the refreshrate this smart decimation drops frames to get the original frame rate, so smooth playback is possible, if there is nothing to drop it doesn't drop anything. if the refresh rate doesn't match the movie frame rate after decimation you need smoothmotion for smooth playback. the normal decimation is still applied when the refresh rate is still lower then the movie frame rate.

i stop writing "huge" posts of this topic now, i think things just getting more complicated this way.

[StinDaWg]

In the mean time you could probably use if (srcFps>=59) and (filmMode) "profile1" for the auto-load rules.
This will switch profiles, but decimation doesn't seem to work right with film mode on in the latest build. I still get stuttering when cadence changes from 6:4 to 2:2 briefly like at the start of this video.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=13146899748996493113

[huhn]

This will switch profiles, but decimation doesn't seem to work right with film mode on in the latest build. I still get stuttering when cadence changes from 6:4 to 2:2 briefly like at the start of this video.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=13146899748996493113

the fox4 logo is true 60 fps at the blend out

[StinDaWg]

the fox4 logo is true 60 fps at the blend out
But if I'm running at 59hz, shouldn't madVR detect that and do what it needs to do to ensure smooth playback? I thought that was the whole point of being "safe" and not switching to 23hz.

[huhn]

But if I'm running at 59hz, shouldn't madVR detect that and do what it needs to do to ensure smooth playback? I thought that was the whole point of being "safe" and not switching to 23hz.

it should result in a 3:2 judder but the logo should work fine at 59p. this should look better than 23p but only at this scene both aren't perfect for this. if you play it at 59p MadVR did nothing because this is 59 fps for it so there is nothing to do. 59p should be worlds better for switches between true 23, 29 or 59 fps. this is simply bad for all cases.

[StinDaWg]

it should result in a 3:2 judder but the logo should work fine at 59p. this should look better than 23p but only at this scene both aren't perfect for this. if you play it at 59p MadVR did nothing because this is 59 fps for it so there is nothing to do. 59p should be worlds better for switches between true 23, 29 or 59 fps. this is simply bad for all cases.
If you look at the video I posted that's not judder. It looks like madVR is dropping frames when in 2:2 cadence. The truck is extremely choppy in film mode at 59hz and fine without it. I forced it into 23hz by changing refresh rate in Windows to 23hz and disabling madVR auto rate change, and it plays smooth without any choppiness in film mode. This is the exact opposite of what you claim to work better.

[huhn]

If you look at the video I posted that's not judder. It looks like madVR is dropping frames when in 2:2 cadence. The truck is extremely choppy in film mode at 59hz and fine without it. I forced it into 23hz by changing refresh rate in Windows to 23hz and disabling madVR auto rate change, and it plays smooth without any choppiness in film mode. This is the exact opposite of what you claim to work better.

what is your SM setting and can you please check if you run in 1 or 2of these 2 issues:

http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=204
http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=202

for me it is the opposite 23p looks choppy with a 2:2 scene or i see ghosting with smoothmotion. the 6:4 part looks of cause perfect at the end at 23p.

at 59p the 2:2 part doesn't look totally fine thanks to the 3:2 judder but a lot better else 23p. the 6:4 part was smooth.

my smoothmotion setting is "... or if the display refresh..." it actives at 23p when 59 fps are inputted 2:2(it only needs to be enabled setting doesn't matter )

i used a work around for bug 204.

it is possible for this sample to run totally fine at 23p without SM. MadVR can drop the frames in the 2:2 part perfectly to match the 23p this is pure luck! this is happening 1 out of 3 tries for me.

[StinDaWg]

I'm not using smooth motion, I don't like it.

[Andy o]

the rest is in the first 3 posts.

I think you misunderstood what I was asking. What I meant is that decimating for progressive content refreshing at 23/24 is not available right now, as far as I can tell it can't even be done manually. I think you thought I was asking for a way to force film mode automatically?

[VincAlastor]

i'm really impressed with the smooth motion algorithm! for me it's pure magic! Thank you!
i've searched an avisyth filter like this for a long time, but nothing was smooth like this algorithm in madvr.
is there a way to use it in avisynth/vipoursynth?

[vivan]

i've searched an avisyth filter like this for a long time, but nothing was smooth like this algorithm in madvr.
is there a way to use it in avisynth/vipoursynth?ConvertFPS (60)

[VincAlastor]

ConvertFPS (60)

thank you but that filter doesn't run that fast and the quality is very bad against madvr smooth motion algorithm.

[huhn]

I think you misunderstood what I was asking. What I meant is that decimating for progressive content refreshing at 23/24 is not available right now, as far as I can tell it can't even be done manually. I think you thought I was asking for a way to force film mode automatically?

the new decimation supports 50hz -> 25hz and 60 hz -> 24 and nothing else.
and this should work with all refresh rates.

you can use the decimation at 23p with a supported source!
if display modes are used and 59p or 60p are present it will use this at the moment and not 23p.
if it is not working for you then this should be a bug.
if you are asking for a decimation of a 23p source this is not supported and what is the bigger idea if this is your question?

I'm not using smooth motion, I don't like it.

using the decimation at 59p without SM is pointless in term of smoothness. it only lowers the GPU load.

[StinDaWg]

using the decimation at 59p without SM is pointless in term of smoothness. it only lowers the GPU load.
Which is why I'm still using it. My card cannot do NNEDI3 with 60 fps content. Turn film mode on and it can do 32 neurons.

[huhn]

Which is why I'm still using it. My card cannot do NNEDI3 with 60 fps content. Turn film mode on and it can do 32 neurons.

totally fine but make sure the profile switches when 2:2 is detected or you run in huge problems from time to time your sample is a good test in general just to short.

[StinDaWg]

totally fine but make sure the profile switches when 2:2 is detected or you run in huge problems from time to time your sample is a good test in general just to short.
I'm using if (srcFps>=59) and (filmMode) "23 fps". Seems to work. Still need 23hz support but that's in madshi hands so I'll just wait hoping he adds it.

[leeperry]

Humm, not only 14.4 comes with poor NNEDI performance but I get random tardy frames even though mVR's OSD doesn't claim any frame to be dropped. It's very obvious on 24p which was dead-smooth with 13.12, using the alternate interop lag hack doesn't seem to help much either. I've experienced this problem in a bunch of movies and frames were on time once I rewound and played the same sequences again. Back to 13.12 for sure this time. Don't fix it yada yada ^^