madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 502

LexSfX

16th March 2014, 19:18

http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=180

So I'll close this one for now, cause it's not really a bug, but intended behaviour. As I said, I'll revisit this in a future version (but not soon).Huh!? It's definitely a bug! It's just a bug caused by an intentional workaround to another bug which was considered more severe. I disagree that that ticket should have been closed.

This bug makes me have to switch to another renderer for those videos, which sucks because those videos tend to be 60 fps and the other renderers may drop too many frames where madVR would manage frame drops more intelligently.

Wouldn't the better workaround be to detect the existence of a DVD-like menu and use the workaround only in that case, so that all other videos can be configured to be watchable how the user wants to watch them?

yok833

16th March 2014, 19:21

Sorry, I have 2 noobie questions :):

1) is there any benefit/disadvantage to change from W7 to W8.1 regarding Madvr?
2) With madlevelstweaker do we have to use it on each refresh rate or do we need to just do it once for all the refresh rate?
Is it correct that if my TV do not support full rgb, I will then just need to set Madvr to PC levels?

Envoyé de mon GT-I9300 en utilisant Tapatalk

Niyawa

16th March 2014, 19:54

Is there any benefit/disadvantage to change from W7 to W8.1 regarding Madvr?
This is my own experience, but madVR improved a few ms by switching to 8.1. I don' have exact numbers but it's a slight change, not something I'd go around and saying "it's definitively faster". Just a notable improvement.

Is it correct that if my TV do not support full rgb, I will then just need to set Madvr to PC levels?
Ins't it the other way around? If your TV doesn't support full RGB then you set up madVR for TV levels instead. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

This is for everyone on this thread. I'd like to ask for help in getting some data for my next madVR algorithm graph. Now that 750 Ti is out there and we're going to get some Maxwell refreshes I'm starting to accommodate some settings. NNEDI3 is the only thing I can't test at the moment so some performance numbers with it (ms, dropped frames, anything) would be greatly appreciated. All I need is your GPU and whatever data you can give me so I can parse it.

djfred93

16th March 2014, 20:08

MSI Radeon HD5770 Hawk :

http://i.imgur.com/XgbIcio.png

yok833

16th March 2014, 20:10

.
Ins't it the other way around? If your TV doesn't support full RGB then you set up madVR for TV levels instead. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Sorry you are right my mistake...

Envoyé de mon GT-I9300 en utilisant Tapatalk

Ver Greeneyes

16th March 2014, 20:12

Yup, I did the check with 3-bit and it seems to fallback to no dithering (or random dithering, the difference between the two is negligible).No dithering and random dithering always use 8-bit regardless of the setting (though random dithering increases amount of noise for lower bit depth settings IIRC). You have to compare Ordered Dithering and Error Diffusion in 3-bit mode.

iSunrise

16th March 2014, 20:17

No dithering and random dithering always use 8-bit regardless of the setting (though random dithering increases amount of noise for lower bit depth settings IIRC). You have to compare Ordered Dithering and Error Diffusion in 3-bit mode.
Slight correction:
The behaviour of no dithering was reverted to how it was before, so the bit-setting still applies here.

Ver Greeneyes

16th March 2014, 20:18

Slight correction:
The behaviour of no dithering was reverted to how it was before, so the bit-setting still applies here.Oh, really? I guess I missed that.

6233638

16th March 2014, 20:20

No dithering and random dithering always use 8-bit regardless of the setting (though random dithering increases amount of noise for lower bit depth settings IIRC). You have to compare Ordered Dithering and Error Diffusion in 3-bit mode.That doesn't seem to be the case in 87.7 for me.
I think that's a good thing, as the only reason to use these modes is for comparisons anyway.

QBhd

16th March 2014, 21:12

Sorry, I have 2 noobie questions :):

1) is there any benefit/disadvantage to change from W7 to W8.1 regarding Madvr?

I just recently made the complete switch from 7 to 8.1 and I did not notice any difference (good or bad)... the one thing I did notice, in FSE, composition rates do not interfere anymore (ctrl-j doesn't even show it) and my primary monitor is completely usable while playback is happening (sometimes this would not work in 7).

QB

madshi

16th March 2014, 21:14

I doubt that. Since you fixed the 'full present queue slowed down rendering' bug I went back to default queue sizes and such frame drops can sometimes happen now. However making sure the present queue isn't completely full will make everything totally stable and there's never a frame drop then.
Can you upload a log for me with the default queue sizes? Would like to have a look at that. Thanks.

http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=180

Huh!? It's definitely a bug! It's just a bug caused by an intentional workaround to another bug which was considered more severe. I disagree that that ticket should have been closed.

This bug makes me have to switch to another renderer for those videos, which sucks because those videos tend to be 60 fps and the other renderers may drop too many frames where madVR would manage frame drops more intelligently.

Wouldn't the better workaround be to detect the existence of a DVD-like menu and use the workaround only in that case, so that all other videos can be configured to be watchable how the user wants to watch them?
I understand your point of view, but my opinion differs. Let me explain:

(1) First of all if I wrote a media player, I would *not* add a "keep aspect ratio" option at all. It doesn't make sense. Why would anyone watch a video with distorted aspect ratio? The only situation where "keep aspect ratio" is useful is if the video was encoded incorrectly, *and* if at the same time the correct aspect ratio actually happens to match the resolution of the video (as in your case). That is a very rare situation, though.
(2) The definition of a "bug" in my book is unintended misbehaviour, due to an unintended error in the code. This is not the case here. I've made the intentional decision to enforce the aspect ratio, due to limitations of the Microsoft VMR7/9 interfaces which madVR still uses.
(3) The "keep aspect ratio" option works with some renderers, and doesn't work with some other renderers. Which pretty much shows that this is a matter of interpretation, and not a renderer misbehaviour.
(4) The *REAL* bug here is that your video file is encoded incorrectly. madVR just shows it the way the file/container specifies.

Even though I'm convinced of all the arguments above, I still understand your situation and would *like* to support the "keep aspect ratio" option. However, there are practical reasons that stop me from doing that at this time:

If I simply change my code to honor the "keep aspect ratio" option, this will break DVD menues in some cases. If I try to detect DVD menus and use the current AR solution for that, and a different solution for all other files, that might work ok, but it would cost me several hours of development time, and there would be a certain risk of new bugs creeping in through this change.

I only have a limited amount of development resources. And I'd rather spend them on things that all (or at least many many) users benefit from. What you're asking nobody else has ever complained about - plus it will be fixed by some planned changes in a future version, anyway. So even if I accepted your bug report, it would be so low on my list, that it would never be fixed before I implement the EVR interfaces (which will as a side effect "fix" this problem) so it just makes no sense to keep the bug report open.

Mangix

16th March 2014, 21:16

James Freeman

16th March 2014, 21:21

QBhd

16th March 2014, 21:25

turbojet

16th March 2014, 21:25

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbojet View Post
However, would allowing the output range to be changed with profiles be a possibility? This would lead to another solution of nvidia's refresh rate levels issue over hdmi.
The only proper solution to nvidia's refresh rate levels issue over hdmi is to use the madLevelsTweaker, or similar tools.

It seems you're only looking at whether black & white are sent correctly, and you're ignoring everything else. Of course having black & white correct is the most important thing of all. However, avoiding banding artifacts is important, too. So I will not support half-ass solutions which produce banding artifacts. Switching output levels via profiles would be such a half-ass solution because it would result in some modes producing banding artifacts. Well, maybe there is no other solution for svideo, but for HDMI there certainly is.

That said, currently profiles are not supported in madVR's device setup. This may change in a future version, but definitely not in v0.87.x. And I'm not sure yet if I'll allow profiles for the "properties" page. Then again, it probably wouldn't harm, so I might allow it, after all.
Is it required to change levels after every driver install? If so it would be advantage if madvr supported level profiles, looking forward to it if you end up adding them.

1) is there any benefit/disadvantage to change from W7 to W8.1 regarding Madvr?
If you change refresh rates there's some advantages of not getting mismatched composition and refresh rates which happened quite often to me. If you normally use aero in windows 7, 8.1 should be a little faster on mainstream/enthusiast gpu's because dwm.exe no longer uses gpu although disabling windows 7 composition does the same thing. On low end gpu's and igp's 8.1 should be considerably faster for the same reason, an HD3000 dwm uses 20-30% gpu, this savings is useful for madvr.

XMonarchY

16th March 2014, 21:28

Is it possible you have an old madHcNet32.dll flying around somewhere? Maybe in the ArgyllCMS folder? Please search your harddisk for madHcNet32.dll, madHcNet64.dll, madVR.ax, madTPG.exe and madHcCtrl.exe. All of these files should only exist once on your PC - in the madVR folder. If they're anywhere else, delete those.

Searched for each one and they exist in one single directory - JRiver madVR plugin folder. I made sure to erase that older and place all latest files from the latest 0.87.7 package... It doesn't really explain why the older 0.87.6 package would work from ANY folder on ANY drive, while 0.87.7 package would not work from ANY folder on ANY drive... I'll keep on digging, but at this point I have no idea where else to look...

0.87.7 plays video files just fine, without any issues, but madTPG specifically is not usable my HCFR, ArgyllCMS, etc...

Mangix

16th March 2014, 21:31

Agreed... With this test I am fairly sure my TV is 4:2:2... it's a very clear difference when the image is moved from monitor to TV. Awesome little image :)

Just make sure you are at a 1:1 pixel resolution on your TV

QB

if the TV is 4:2:2, anything to change on madVR's side?

edit: i've noticed an interesting effect on my other TV, it shows 4:4:4 properly but the image flickers every second or so.

madshi

16th March 2014, 21:45

Searched for each one and they exist in one single directory - JRiver madVR plugin folder. I made sure to erase that older and place all latest files from the latest 0.87.7 package... It doesn't really explain why the older 0.87.6 package would work from ANY folder on ANY drive, while 0.87.7 package would not work from ANY folder on ANY drive... I'll keep on digging, but at this point I have no idea where else to look...

0.87.7 plays video files just fine, without any issues, but madTPG specifically is not usable my HCFR, ArgyllCMS, etc...
JRiver doesn't have madVR "installed", I think. Instead JRiver loads madVR directly from the plugin folder, without installing it first. Have you manually double clicked "install.bat"? HCFR and ArgyllCMS can't work if madVR is not "installed", because then HCFR and ArgyllCMS don't know where to find madHcNet32.dll, which is needed for them to be able to talk to madTPG.

XMonarchY

16th March 2014, 21:49

JRiver doesn't have madVR "installed", I think. Instead JRiver loads madVR directly from the plugin folder, without installing it first. Have you manually double clicked "install.bat"? HCFR and ArgyllCMS can't work if madVR is not "installed", because then HCFR and ArgyllCMS don't know where to find madHcNet32.dll, which is needed for them to be able to talk to madTPG.

Yeap - I sure did press Install.bat a bunch of times, BUT I just noticed that is says that files have not been copied anywhere and yet says that filter was successfully registered... no idea?! My OS is x64 if that is of any help because I saw some people complaining of the same issue on x64 on AVS forums. I know that I can delete madHcNet64.dll and madTPG will still work, but not if I delete madHcNet32.dll. Maybe its not registering the right version? Maybe there was a registry corruption? Are there any specific registry strings I should remove/place? I looked in regedit and it founds only like 6 or so entries in some MUI cache directory of the registry...

noee

16th March 2014, 22:05

Run install.bat elevated.

6233638

16th March 2014, 22:06

I have a question about the test image in the first page: http://madshi.net/madVR/ChromaRes.png

How is it meant to be used? On my monitor, I see 4:4:4 clearly and 4:2:2 kind of faded whereas on my TV, it's the exact opposite. And how are you supposed to tell if the display is actually 4:2:0?
Here's a slightly updated pattern: http://abload.de/img/chromaresmzjib.png

And here are examples of what it should look like:

4:4:4 display (http://abload.de/img/444-examplewpjy0.png) - the "4:4:4" text is darker than the background, and "4:2:2" should barely be visible.
4:2:2 display (http://abload.de/img/422-examplenlkf0.png) - the "4:2:2" text should be brighter than the background, and the "4:4:4" text should almost blend into the background. There should be a bright border around the edge of the image.
4:2:0 display (http://abload.de/img/420-examplejxji9.png) - none of the text is clearly visible (it may be faintly visible) and the center of the image should be dark, with a bright border around the edge of the screen.

Now it won't look that clean in reality, but should be enough to let you know what your display is doing.
EDIT: Photographs showing what 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 should look like: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1673959&postcount=25122

I'm not sure why, but I don't seem to be getting as good results with the pattern now as I did originally. (the 4:4:4 text doesn't blend into the background as well as I'd like)

if the TV is 4:2:2, anything to change on madVR's side?There's probably no need to use chroma scaling better than Bicubic 75 AR. (and the anti-ringing filter may even be unnecessary)

XMonarchY

16th March 2014, 22:31

Run install.bat elevated.

I ran all restore default settings bats elevated (as in administrator mode, right?) and none-elevated. Did the same with uninstall.bat. Removed all madVR file traces from HDD/SSD using search function of the best file searcher, removed all madVR registry entries, remove all LAV filters, JRiver, etc., then ran CCleaner file and registry cleaning. Restarted. Re-downloaded madVR 0.87.7, ran install.bat in normal and "as admin" modes from just ONE location - no go... gray screen.

I also re-downloaded the madVR version that JRiver downloads/installs itself, which is the older 0.86.9 version, ran restore default settings.bat normal and elevated, then ran uninstall.bat normal and elevated, removed the files, cleaned recycle bin, restarted, still no go...

I'm certain its just my PC, but even though this sounds bad - I hope someone else gets the issue so I can have it solved!

XMonarchY

16th March 2014, 22:33

Here's a slightly updated pattern: http://abload.de/img/chromaresmzjib.png

And here are examples of what it should look like:

4:4:4 display (http://abload.de/img/444-examplewpjy0.png)
4:2:2 display (http://abload.de/img/422-examplenlkf0.png)
4:2:0 display (http://abload.de/img/420-examplejxji9.png)

Now it won't look that clean in reality, but should be enough to let you know what your display is doing.

I'm not sure why, but I don't seem to be getting as good results with the pattern now as I did originally. (the 4:4:4 text doesn't blend into the background as well as I'd like)

There's probably no need to use chroma scaling better than Bicubic 75 AR. (and the anti-ringing filter may even be unnecessary)

My TV shows both 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 clearly on each of the 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 images in its Standard mode - what does that mean? Hybrid mode?

huhn

16th March 2014, 22:36

you have to watch that screen unscaled...

6233638

16th March 2014, 23:12

My TV shows both 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 clearly on each of the 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 images in its Standard mode - what does that mean? Hybrid mode?If 4:2:2 is brighter than the background, you have a 4:2:2 display.

madshi

16th March 2014, 23:19

I ran all restore default settings bats elevated (as in administrator mode, right?) and none-elevated. Did the same with uninstall.bat. Removed all madVR file traces from HDD/SSD using search function of the best file searcher, removed all madVR registry entries, remove all LAV filters, JRiver, etc., then ran CCleaner file and registry cleaning. Restarted. Re-downloaded madVR 0.87.7, ran install.bat in normal and "as admin" modes from just ONE location - no go... gray screen.

I also re-downloaded the madVR version that JRiver downloads/installs itself, which is the older 0.86.9 version, ran restore default settings.bat normal and elevated, then ran uninstall.bat normal and elevated, removed the files, cleaned recycle bin, restarted, still no go...

I'm certain its just my PC, but even though this sounds bad - I hope someone else gets the issue so I can have it solved!
So now it also doesn't work with 0.86.9, anymore? That's different to what you reported earlier. Earlier you said older madVR versions worked fine, but 0.87.7 does not. What you're saying how sounds like no madVR build works, anymore?

Try creating a madVR folder in a "neutral" place, like e.g. "c:\program files (x86)\madVR" and install it there. That might help. Maybe ArgyllCMS just doesn't like the JRiver plugin path for some reason. Another try would be to manually copy madHcNet32.dll into the ArgyllCMS "bin" folder.

nevcairiel

16th March 2014, 23:22

Maybe ArgyllCMS just doesn't like the JRiver plugin path for some reason. Another try would be to manually copy madHcNet32.dll into the ArgyllCMS "bin" folder.

Works for me with it installed in there (since I didn't want two copies floating around)
I didn't try with .7 though, but I calibrated my display just last week on .6 and everything was fine.

x7007

16th March 2014, 23:25

Hey, why do I get low performance with NNEDI3 1080p dxva supported mkv. 720p works fine. Jinc works fine for all too.

Intel I7 720 1.6Ghz
ATI 5870 Mobility

XMonarchY

16th March 2014, 23:48

So now it also doesn't work with 0.86.9, anymore? That's different to what you reported earlier. Earlier you said older madVR versions worked fine, but 0.87.7 does not. What you're saying how sounds like no madVR build works, anymore?

Try creating a madVR folder in a "neutral" place, like e.g. "c:\program files (x86)\madVR" and install it there. That might help. Maybe ArgyllCMS just doesn't like the JRiver plugin path for some reason. Another try would be to manually copy madHcNet32.dll into the ArgyllCMS "bin" folder.

No no no - madVR 0.86.9 does work. I just thought that since I replaced that folder earlier with newer versions, the older version didn't get uninstalled properly. That is why I re-downloaded it to uninstall properly, but that didn't fix the problem with 0.87.7...

I did try neutral location - no go...

Could you at least tell me whether the gray screen is as intended??? If not, then its not ArgyllCMS...

Mangix

17th March 2014, 00:35

My TV shows both 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 clearly on each of the 4:4:4 and 4:2:2 images in its Standard mode - what does that mean? Hybrid mode?

it's 4:2:2. Messing around with the brigthness and contrast controls will show both. On my TV, 4:4:4 is barely visible.

MistahBonzai

17th March 2014, 00:40

So I guess he's full of it, since your much more powerful 7850 can't even do it?

Not necessarily... However those figures push the performance limits of what I have noted with similar cards.

I forgot to mention that my HD7850 is comfortably overclocked @ 1.225GHz for GPU clock and 1.0GHz for memory clock.
That has not given me any performance issues and I never push the GPU beyond 160f (well ventilated case, temperature controlled PSU and water cooled CPU).

I have an idea that some folks who make outrageous GPU performance claims associated with MadVR 'tweaks' aren't actually using those settings. Either they haven't enabled proper scaling factors for image doubling (ask you friend to enable 'always...' and report back) or they are using a video player that doesn't honor those settings. One should carefully double check configuration settings when performance seems too good to be true rather than post the false data to the world at large...

Werewolfy

17th March 2014, 00:43

Too bad. Log confirms old results. I'm officially out of ideas.

Ok so I'm still stuck with overlay mode for now :(

scollaco

17th March 2014, 00:44

Here's a slightly updated pattern: http://abload.de/img/chromaresmzjib.png

And here are examples of what it should look like:

4:4:4 display (http://abload.de/img/444-examplewpjy0.png)
4:2:2 display (http://abload.de/img/422-examplenlkf0.png)
4:2:0 display (http://abload.de/img/420-examplejxji9.png)

Now it won't look that clean in reality, but should be enough to let you know what your display is doing.

I'm not sure why, but I don't seem to be getting as good results with the pattern now as I did originally. (the 4:4:4 text doesn't blend into the background as well as I'd like)

There's probably no need to use chroma scaling better than Bicubic 75 AR. (and the anti-ringing filter may even be unnecessary)

noob question from me as I'm still learning so much....My projector shows 4:4:4 in Game mode...but 4:2:0 in Cinema1 mode which is what I use to watch movies. Are there any recommended settings for madVR (chroma wise) when watching 4:2:0 display?

scollaco

17th March 2014, 00:48

it's 4:2:2. Messing around with the brigthness and contrast controls will show both. On my TV, 4:4:4 is barely visible.

I just saw this post...maybe my CINEMA1 mode is 4:4:4...as you said...it's not as visible...but when I play with brightness contrast...it is more legible. What's recommended for madVR if you have either 4:2:0 or 4:4:4 for chroma scaling?

huhn

17th March 2014, 01:05

if your screen is 4:4:4 you should easy be able to see the blue/pink pixel in the picture if you get really really close.

ShadowVlican

17th March 2014, 02:42

Well, that would be great, of course! I've uploaded a small OpenCL interop speed test tool. Full source code included. You can forward this (and ideally also my whole reply to you) to the AMD representative:

http://madshi.net/OpenClSpeedTest.zip

On my PC with an HD7770 I get the following results:

D3D9 StretchRect: 1834 fps
D3D9 HLSL PixelShader: 2407 fps
OpenCL copy: 1986 fps
OpenCL kernel: 2117 fps
OpenCL copy interop: 427 fps
OpenCL kernel interop: 424 fps

Error Diffusion OpenCL: 466 fps
Error Diffusion OpenCL interop: 134 fps
Error Diffusion OpenCL interop 2: 192 fps
Error Diffusion DirectCompute: 347 fps
Error Diffusion DirectCompute interop: 316 fps
Error Diffusion DirectCompute interop 2: 297 fps
If you look at the top of the measurements, the test tool measures how fast my HD7770 can copy a 1920x1080 video frame, using different methods, including D3D9 StretchRect, a simple PixelShader, an OpenCL "copy" command or a simple OpenCL kernel. As you can see, all of these measure somewhat similar with about 2000 fps. The 2nd test section compares doing Error Diffusion via OpenCL and via DirectCompute.

According to these tests (and my own experience) AMD's OpenCL implementation is working pretty well and fast, as long as you use only native OpenCL image objects. But as soon as I try to integrate OpenCL into my D3D9 rendering pipeline, speed suffers quite noticeably. A simple 1920x1080 frame copy slows down from 2000 fps to 425 fps. Or worse: Error diffusion slows down from 466 fps to just 134 fps. 466fps means one frame takes about 2.5ms to process. 134fps means one frame takes about 7.5ms to process. So basically the interop between OpenCL and Direct3D costs about 5ms per 1080p frame on my PC. And I think this test is making the cost "look good". In real world usage the cost seems to be rather higher. Some users are reporting interop to cost about 10ms per frame. Which is A LOT, considering that for 1080p60 playback each frame must be fully processed and displayed in 16.7ms per frame. And we're talking about 1080p here. I don't even want to think about 4K.
sweet! a benchmark :p

http://s8.postimg.org/7o578j0zp/madvr_test01.png (http://postimage.org/)
capture (http://postimage.org/app.php)

system specs here:
http://valid.canardpc.com/cache/banner/hicw7d.png (http://valid.canardpc.com/hicw7d)
(it's a 7950)

MistahBonzai

17th March 2014, 02:43

I just saw this post...maybe my CINEMA1 mode is 4:4:4...as you said...it's not as visible...but when I play with brightness contrast...it is more legible. What's recommended for madVR if you have either 4:2:0 or 4:4:4 for chroma scaling?
Why not take a quick look-see at these on-line adjustment screens (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/) and tweak as required? My experience has been that they do an excellent job of getting it 99% right. At least you can be assured that you have eliminated the guesswork.

scollaco

17th March 2014, 02:57

Why not take a quick look-see at these on-line adjustment screens (http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/) and tweak as required? My experience has been that they do an excellent job of getting it 99% right. At least you can be assured that you have eliminated the guesswork.

Thanks...I'll take a look

scollaco

17th March 2014, 03:00

if your screen is 4:4:4 you should easy be able to see the blue/pink pixel in the picture if you get really really close.

Thanks for the tip...when I look closely...I did see the blue/pink pixel in the 4's. I didn't know I had to look for that. So my display is 4:4:4

Anything specifically recommended for madVR chroma setting's with a 4:4:4 display (Jinc/Lancozs/Bicubic etc...)?

jkauff

17th March 2014, 03:14

If you don't have profile rules setup, the first listed profile is always activated by default. You can change the order of profiles by drag&drop in the settings dialog. So simply move the profile you want to be used by default to the top of the list.
I do have profile rules set up, and I thought I needed to use the hotkey to call up the Program Group and run the rules. If the rules script gets run automatically, I don't see the OSD message that shows which sub-group has been selected by the rules. There's nothing that tells me the script has run.

I have rules set up for SD video, 720p, and 1080p for doubling. Works perfectly, but I wish I didn't need to use the hotkey every time I play a movie.

huhn

17th March 2014, 03:35

Thanks for the tip...when I look closely...I did see the blue/pink pixel in the 4's. I didn't know I had to look for that. So my display is 4:4:4

Anything specifically recommended for madVR chroma setting's with a 4:4:4 display (Jinc/Lancozs/Bicubic etc...)?

you have to see them in the rest not in the 4:4:4 in the 4:4:4 there is no blue used at all 4:4:4 is a static color not like the rest 1 pixel blue 1 pixel blue or not like 4:2:2 in 4:2:2 there are lines. on a 4:4:4 screen you can even see the lines from a normal viewing position. ok i'm not sure if this is possible on a 4k display because the pixel are now as big as the sub pixel of a 1080p screen...

just look at this picture with a pc monitor you should see very very easy the 4:4:4 and on your tv/projector it should look the same. if not you don't have a 4:4:4 display this makes chroma upascling less important.

QBhd

17th March 2014, 03:59

seiyafan

17th March 2014, 04:08

Unfortunately on a 1440p monitor with 270x I can choose to do either NEDDI3 luma doubling, NEDDI3 chroma upscaling, or Error diffusion dithering. I think the doubling has the greatest visual improvement, not sure about the other two though. I doubt it's possible to do all three on a 290x, but two is possible on 280x and above.

huhn

17th March 2014, 04:41

I still think chroma upscaling is very important on a 4:2:2 display... I do notice a substantial increase in sharpness and clarity and amazing color when using the latest and best chroma upscaling algorithms (Jinc 3 AR for a while and now NEDDI3). This is all on a 4:2:2 display output at 1024x768 rectangular pixel resolution. I can see this far more clearly than the differences between the dithering methods.

QB

this has a lot to do how madvr works.

in your case with a 1080p bd disk madvr upscales chroma first to 1080p and then downscales both at the same time so the different is way higher and a chroma resolution of 1024x384 is way more obvious.

on a 1080p screen the 1080p source is upscaled from 960x540p to 1920x1080p and then downscaled in your tv/gpu again to 1920x540 just to upscale it again to 1920x1080p

Asmodian

17th March 2014, 04:44

I have an idea that some folks who make outrageous GPU performance claims associated with MadVR 'tweaks' aren't actually using those settings. Either they haven't enabled proper scaling factors for image doubling (ask you friend to enable 'always...' and report back) or they are using a video player that doesn't honor those settings (like the Zoom player). I personally installed Zoom player, loaded up MadVR to the max and played a 720P video full screen on my 1080P display. Zoom played it without a hitch or complaint - there was no way any consumer video card of which I am familiar could have done so.

I agree that outrageous GPU performance claims usually have a mistake that causes the settings reported to not actually be the ones used.

However, I don't understand what you mean by "Zoom Player doesn't honor those settings", the only madVR setting Zoom Player overwrites is smooth motion which is controlled by Zoom Player's own setting. I get 1000s of frame drops on my overclocked Titan if I use 256 neuron luma doubling for 720p -> 1440p or NNEDI3 chroma scaling with 4K@60p video or something.

I do have profile rules set up, and I thought I needed to use the hotkey to call up the Program Group and run the rules. If the rules script gets run automatically, I don't see the OSD message that shows which sub-group has been selected by the rules. There's nothing that tells me the script has run.

I have rules set up for SD video, 720p, and 1080p for doubling. Works perfectly, but I wish I didn't need to use the hotkey every time I play a movie.

If you go into the settings the profile that is currently in use is bold. No OSD messages. They are automatic.

scollaco

17th March 2014, 04:55

you have to see them in the rest not in the 4:4:4 in the 4:4:4 there is no blue used at all 4:4:4 is a static color not like the rest 1 pixel blue 1 pixel blue or not like 4:2:2 in 4:2:2 there are lines. on a 4:4:4 screen you can even see the lines from a normal viewing position. ok i'm not sure if this is possible on a 4k display because the pixel are now as big as the sub pixel of a 1080p screen...

just look at this picture with a pc monitor you should see very very easy the 4:4:4 and on your tv/projector it should look the same. if not you don't have a 4:4:4 display this makes chroma upascling less important.

Yes..I miswrote...here are no blue lines inside the 4:4:4....it is clear...the lines are around the rest of the image....the only thing that has got me confused is that that the 4:4:4 looks light colored inside it and and the outside of it is darker..almost the reverse coloring of the image below..what I mean is that I DO see 4:4:4 clearly visible, except it is light colored and the background is dark. In the image below it is the opposite in brightness, which confuses me:

http://abload.de/img/444-examplewpjy0.png

So if one had a 4:4:4 display what do you suggest for chroma up scaling in madvr
and if one had a 4:2:2 display what are the recommended chroma settings?

Nachbar

17th March 2014, 06:41

Windowed overlay makes the picture too dark. I'm guessing due to my display. However if I untick that option the screen brightens up and I can see things again. Another interesting note is if I use the levels tweaker it will produce the same amount of darkness regardless of whether the setting is enabled or not. In the nvidia control panel I have it set to use application settings for the levels control.

I am connected via hdmi to my pioneer receiver which is then connected via hdmi to my magnavox 40mf430b/f7 using the hdmi out on my 560 ti

I wonder if I should adjust my display so it works with the overlay brightness or without it. I guess I have some tweaking to do.