madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[johnnylaiyee]

Thanks huhn for your quick reply!

I will try the 23hz method you've mentioned later.

Regarding the 2gb ram of 1050, I always use the OSD to check the stability when opening a movie (see the rendering time and frame repeat estimation) and Ctr+R after Ctr+J to switch off and reset the OSD. When I finished the movie, I check the OSD again to ensure no dropped or repeated frame.

Maybe the 2gb is good enough for double scaling after I set the crop black bar option in Madvr? Because with the Madvr setting I posted, movie plays smoothly without any frame dropped or repeated.

And yes, I enabled the True Cinema 24p option in my LG 65UH8500.

I think the bitrate of the file plays huge part to the rendering time I suppose? The rendering time is longer when playing 35mb/s remux than 5mb/s web-dl TV episode.

[huhn]

Maybe the 2gb is good enough for double scaling after I set the crop black bar option in Madvr? Because with the Madvr setting I posted, movie plays smoothly without any frame dropped or repeated.
cropping blackbars should help a lot but not everything has blackbars.
and even if you are running out of Vram that doesn't mean you will drop frames. you will get high rendertimes a lot higher... and "stuff" can happen.

NGU high is a relative easy scaling algorithm for nvidia polaris cards.
with NGU high i'm close to 3GB Vram usages.

because you are not dropping frames the issue should be the TV or the custom refreshrate.

I think the bitrate of the file plays huge part to the rendering time I suppose? The rendering time is longer when playing 35mb/s remux than 5mb/s web-dl TV episode.

bitrate only really matter for software decoder (which is run on the CPU)
madVR doesn't care it is running on the GPU. even if the CPU is working harder madVR rendertimes shouldn't change.

same for hardware decoder they generally don't care for bitrates below 40 mbit.

[johnnylaiyee]

because you are not dropping frames the issue should be the TV or the custom refreshrate.

Using the native 24p refresh rate of my TV, the repeat frame time is lower like secs to mins since it deviated quite alot from 23.976. And it sucks that reclock have no 64 bit version.

[ryrynz]

@johnny do this (https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1781806&postcount=39601) it should change your repeat/dropped frames to hours.
Panning will still judder in comparison to Smooth Motion but I find it's sharper more crystal appearance to be a better viewing experience..

[johnnylaiyee]

@johnny do this (https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1781806&postcount=39601) it should change your repeat/dropped frames to hours.
Panning will still judder in comparison to Smooth Motion but I find it's sharper more crystal appearance to be a better viewing experience..
Thanks for the tip! Will try it as soon as I can.

But do u think 47.952hz will perform better than 23.976hz in terms of judder?

[ryrynz]

Either you do 60Hz+ with Smooth motion enabled or you get as close to 23.976 as you can.

[ashlar42]

Either you do 60Hz+ with Smooth motion enabled or you get as close to 23.976 as you can.No, the target is not necessarily 23.976.

I suggest johnnylaiyee reads and follows the guide I wrote here: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=173571

[huhn]

panning will show the same judder with smooth motion at 60 hz as a proper 23p implementation.

[Siso]

panning will show the same judder with smooth motion at 60 hz as a proper 23p implementation.

But why? How to obtain judder free playback, especially on panning shots?

[huhn]

there is no judder with smooth motion and a proper 23p implementation.
http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/judder

if you want it to be more "smooth" than only more frames can do the trick.

[clsid]

That judder is "normal". Fast movements simply look that way on low framerate video.

[Damien147]

Does having ffdshow raw video filter in the chain affect anything quality wise?

[cork_OS]

Does having ffdshow raw video filter in the chain affect anything quality wise?
1. ffdshow raw is blocking the retrieving of any information about stream from LAV to madVR (although madVR can get stream info by himself in most cases)
2. ffdshow raw can output only 8-bit YV12 [EDIT: sorry, seems it's wrong]

[Damien147]

I just checked and found an occasion that it displays NV12 8 bit instead of P010 10 bit.I guess I will remove it when not needed to be safe.Thank you.

[sneaker_ger]

2. ffdshow raw can output only 8-bit YV12 [EDIT: sorry, seems it's wrong
Wasn't ffdshow's 10 bit support limited to decoding 10 bit H.264 without any filtering? So you cannot really avoid the format downgrade.

[ryrynz]

AFAIK there's no way you can get PO10 out from ffdshow, I've had it enabled with zero filters and I still get YV12.
Would've liked to have seen it be automatically disabled on 10 bit content types so I didn't have to disable it manually each time I viewed these files but there was no interest in doing so from the MPC-BE dev.
What madshi has cooked up will replace ffdshow raw for most for good and we won't need to worry about this at all.

So yes using it on 10 bit files will degrade quality a bit but whatever post-processing you do will probably improve it to your eyes more than whatever banding etc is introduced dropping back to YV12 (which madVR will help you deal with anyway if it's enabled) Personally any 10 bit content I view is of high quality so any image processing can be done by madVR.

[Damien147]

I just use it for SVP but for 90% of the situations there is no use.Add/remove I guess.

[SFX]

Hello. Is it possible not just move subtitle to a bottom of the screen but scale them to? It is very annoying when subtitles on blu-ray overlap the picture on few pixel.

[huhn]

subtitles on blu rays are images it is not easy to move them.
it is possible to move text based subtitles.

[SFX]

subtitles on blu rays are images it is not easy to move them.
it is possible to move text based subtitles.

madVR already can move blu-ray subtitles (settings -> processing -> zoom control -> move subtitles). I wonder is it possible to scale them to.

[johnnylaiyee]

No, the target is not necessarily 23.976.

I suggest johnnylaiyee reads and follows the guide I wrote here: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=173571

I followed your guide to set my refresh rate to 48 in the first place.

It works great in 1080p -> 2180p upscales but failed to enter HDR mode in the new refresh rate.

Do you think there is a workaround to enable HDR in custom refresh rate?

[mrmojo666]

I followed your guide to set my refresh rate to 48 in the first place.

It works great in 1080p -> 2180p upscales but failed to enter HDR mode in the new refresh rate.

Do you think there is a workaround to enable HDR in custom refresh rate?

probably because of HDMI limitations, if you are outputting 4:4:4 HDMI has a limitation at 30 hz.
IMHO

[johnnylaiyee]

probably because of HDMI limitations, if you are outputting 4:4:4 HDMI has a limitation at 30 hz.
IMHO

But I can enter HDR mode in native 60Hz just fine

[nevcairiel]

Entirely custom refresh rates sometimes confuse TVs, and a 48Hz rate is not any kind of standard. If you experience issues, stick to 24 or 60.

[oldpainlesskodi]

I wanted to say a big thanks to Madshi for the amazing work on MadVr.

I was on Win 8.1, and thought it looked amazing, using NGU Sharp for 10bit hevc 1080p files (I could not use reconn for Chroma, as it produced too many errors).

However, Ive just updated to win 10 CU, and the PQ is even better (richer colours and a greater feel of depth to the images, and now I can use reconnsharp for chroma and NGU Sharp for luma).

I know it is widely reported, and working for some and not others, but on Win 10 Cu, and a GTX 980TI, no combination of drivers or settings forces my Samsung KS8000 into HDR mode. HDR games work fine, and the Nvida HDR SDK triggers the set fine.

Thanks again for the amazing work.

K

[johnnylaiyee]

I wanted to say a big thanks to Madshi for the amazing work on MadVr.

I was on Win 8.1, and thought it looked amazing, using NGU Sharp for 10bit hevc 1080p files (I could not use reconn for Chroma, as it produced too many errors).

However, Ive just updated to win 10 CU, and the PQ is even better (richer colours and a greater feel of depth to the images, and now I can use reconnsharp for chroma and NGU Sharp for luma).

I know it is widely reported, and working for some and not others, but on Win 10 Cu, and a GTX 980TI, no combination of drivers or settings forces my Samsung KS8000 into HDR mode. HDR games work fine, and the Nvida HDR SDK triggers the set fine.

Thanks again for the amazing work.

K
My gtx 970 can enter hdr mode with madvr in win10 cu just fine

I have to enter the hdr mode in windows first before playing the file though

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

[oldpainlesskodi]

My gtx 970 can enter hdr mode with madvr in win10 cu just fine

I have to enter the hdr mode in windows first before playing the file though

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

Interesting. I can set HDR in windows and it switches the Tv to HDR, but then when playing a HDR file using Madvr as the renderer (MPC, Kodi, Pot player etc), it switches back to SDR).

Any pointers?

K

Edit - just occurred to me - are you using FSE DX11 mode?

[johnnylaiyee]

Interesting. I can set HDR in windows and it switches the Tv to HDR, but then when playing a HDR file using Madvr as the renderer (MPC, Kodi, Pot player etc), it switches back to SDR).

Any pointers?

K

Edit - just occurred to me - are you using FSE DX11 mode?
Did you set hdr passthrough and fullscreen exclusive mode in madvr?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

[oldpainlesskodi]

Did you set hdr passthrough and fullscreen exclusive mode in madvr?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

Yep.

K

[ashlar42]

I followed your guide to set my refresh rate to 48 in the first place.

It works great in 1080p -> 2180p upscales but failed to enter HDR mode in the new refresh rate.

Do you think there is a workaround to enable HDR in custom refresh rate?I think you should stick to 23.976 rather than chase 48.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Did you set hdr passthrough and fullscreen exclusive mode in madvr?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

Yes.

K

[Paul Tronc]

I just use it for SVP but for 90% of the situations there is no use.Add/remove I guess.

I'm using SVP as well, for 90% of my content. I can't imagine disabling FFSHOW RAW, unless SVP finds another way to work together with madvr

[Siso]

I think you should stick to 23.976 rather than chase 48.

That's good, but not all of us can stick to 23.976, for example my monitor doesn't support 23.976 or 24, so i'm forced to make 72 hz custom resolution.

[Damien147]

I'm using SVP as well, for 90% of my content. I can't imagine disabling FFSHOW RAW, unless SVP finds another way to work together with madvr

For your usage you have to live with it.For me it's the opposite and I don't use it everyday.I am a set and forget guy though and sometimes it's boring to do that:p

[johnnylaiyee]

I tried Jriver for the first time and the video clock feature significantly increased the 1 frame repeat time to days.
Now I can use 23.976 to play HDR content without any repeated frame.

[nsnhd]

I tried Jriver for the first time and the video clock feature significantly increased the 1 frame repeat time to days.
Now I can use 23.976 to play HDR content without any repeated frame.
How can you make Jriver using the lastest madVR version ?

[johnnylaiyee]

How can you make Jriver using the lastest madVR version ?

Just copy the latest Madvr to JRiver Media Center's madvr folder:
"C:\Users\%yourusername%\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\madvr"

all settings are the same as those you set before as they were stored in regist

[Oguignant]

Guys, I changed my GTX 1080 G1 for a GTX 1080 TI Aorus X ... I'm surprised! It is amazing the difference ... no noise and at maximum power the temperature is very low. The render times were down 30 or 40%. Now if Madvr I can use Madvr to maximum potential.

[Georgel]

Guys, I changed my GTX 1080 G1 for a GTX 1080 TI Aorus X ... I'm surprised! It is amazing the difference ... no noise and at maximum power the temperature is very low. The render times were down 30 or 40%. Now if Madvr I can use Madvr to maximum potential.

Woah

You;re one lucky fellow!

I was actually curious how big is the difference between 1080 and 1080ti with madVR, seems that it is big enough to be worth the upgrade!

Guess that I wish I had a PC instead of laptop now...

Anyway, I hope you have lots of fun with your setup in there!

[Oguignant]

Woah

You;re one lucky fellow!

I was actually curious how big is the difference between 1080 and 1080ti with madVR, seems that it is big enough to be worth the upgrade!

Guess that I wish I had a PC instead of laptop now...

Anyway, I hope you have lots of fun with your setup in there!

I have a laptop too, Alienware 17 r4. With a graphics amplifier. I can add the graphic card I want with this GA.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Did you set hdr passthrough and fullscreen exclusive mode in madvr?

Sent from my Redmi Note 3 using Tapatalk

Yes. But it's no biggie for me. I've manually triggered HDR and watched 4k HDR content, and I have to say, with a high quality 10 bit hevc 1080p file scaled to 4k with reconsharp and NGU sharp very high, the 1080p file looks more HDR anyway lol.

K

Edit - and until MS and Nvidia sort themselves out with who is going to own what in the render chain, I'll stick with 378.92, which, to me, has the best colour fidelity.

[nsnhd]

Just copy the latest Madvr to JRiver Media Center's madvr folder:
"C:\Users\%yourusername%\AppData\Roaming\J River\Media Center 21\Plugins\madvr"

all settings are the same as those you set before as they were stored in regist

Thank you, my impression is that its decoder is slower than decoders of mpc-hc/be since the decoder queue is not filled.

[Andy o]

hey guys, I'm wondering if anyone by any chance is using smooth motion with a new Kaby Lake XPS 15 9560 (GTX 1050) with the 4K screen. Both 1080p upscaled, and native 4K? Right now I can only use smooth motion on my Kaby Lake Razer Blade Stealth if I change the resolution to 1080p first. It's not really a big problem since I don't have a lot of 4K content, but I'm curious anyway. The new XPS 15 seems almost perfect for my kind of usage.

[johnnylaiyee]

Thank you, my impression is that its decoder is slower than decoders of mpc-hc/be since the decoder queue is not filled.

Maybe Jriver can only use the 32bit version of Madvr that's why?

In my rig, even 32 bit is sufficient for smooth playback.

[Georgel]

I have a laptop too, Alienware 17 r4. With a graphics amplifier. I can add the graphic card I want with this GA.

Woah... There are serious advantages to using them Alienwares then...

I went with a laptop that has a desktop CPU to have better workflow, didn't consider the problem imposed by GPU at that moment...

[YxP]

Guys, Now if Madvr I can use Madvr to maximum potential.

Hey whatever floats your boat, but to say or even think that you'd need 1080Ti/1080 for "maximum madvr" is...well, weird.

[Asmodian]

Well you actually do need a 1080 Ti or better for maximum madVR, maximum being the highest settings possible. You need a very powerful GPU to do 1080p -> 2160p with NGU veryHigh. :D

Whether or not using NGU veryHigh instead of high or medium is worth $400+ is debatable, of course, but "maximum madVR" does require a 1080 Ti or better.

Actually, I still have to use profiles with lower settings for harder content and I have an overclocked and water cooled Titan X (Pascal). Even the current top end cards cannot run truly maximum madVR, though they get pretty close. :)

[YxP]

Alright I'll give it to you, Xdupling to infinity will require a lot of GPU :P

[IanD]

next problem is the 1050 these card usually only have 2 GB Vram so if this is the case you are running out of Vram with it when upscaling 1080p -> 2160p.

Why would this be so? A 4k screen has roughly 8 million pixels, each pixel with 24 bits of information assuming RGB presentation = roughly 24MB yet VRAM is roughly 2000MB.

[huhn]

you have multiply buffer upload, the frame before and after chroma scaling and way way more and 8 bit is not really used by madVR.

it is 16 or more except for presenation. on top of it PC GPU don't use RGB they use RGBA make it 33% bigger with no gain.

or in short get at least 3 GB Vram for madVR when using a UHD screen.
and i personally wouldn't get a card with less than 4GB.