madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[saracas]

Can someone please help me ensure my 4K HDR settings are right for my LG C9 OLED TV?

- Do I want the drivers and the TV both set to "HDMI RGB Full"?

- Do I need to manually enable 24hz 12bit in NVIDIA drivers prior to watching HDR content? This setting seems to revert to 8bit whenever I swap back to 60hz 8bit and restart the computer. Maybe I need to make a bat file or something to make this switch automatically when I launch Kodi?

- Do I want to select 24hz or 23hz in the NVIDIA drivers?

Thanks.

[el Filou]

I have an issue with one movie (ripped Blu-ray in 1080p), the source material is 50fps.
I have no idea why all other videos are working fine (typical 24fps look great, and no dropped frames), but I struggle with 50fps, the video seems choppy, every sec I am loosing over 15 frames.Non-UHD Blu-ray doesn't support 50p, can you confirm the source is 50i? If so, are you using software or hardware deinterlacing?
If it's really a movie it should be 25 fps, not 50. Are you sure it's not a video like a documentary or TV studio programme? If not, check if some setting is not forcing deinterlacing and creating 50 fps out of your movie.
50 fps puts 2x more stress on the GPU for rendering so if not using profiles it's possible your settings are fine with 24p but not with 50i/p.
Post a screenshot of madVR's OSD during playback to some external image hosting site so people can find out what's wrong.

[Harumi]

Non-UHD Blu-ray doesn't support 50p, can you confirm the source is 50i? If so, are you using software or hardware deinterlacing?
If it's really a movie it should be 25 fps, not 50. Are you sure it's not a video like a documentary or TV studio programme? If not, check if some setting is not forcing deinterlacing and creating 50 fps out of your movie.
50 fps puts 2x more stress on the GPU for rendering so if not using profiles it's possible your settings are fine with 24p but not with 50i/p.
Post a screenshot of madVR's OSD during playback to some external image hosting site so people can find out what's wrong.

Hello, yes I can confirm, its Blu Ray TV series (PAL,in 50fps thats what madvr OSD (https://imgur.com/Pak0SEY)says). On the other hand I checked the file properties manually I got this info
Video: H.264/AVC 1920x1080 25fps [V: h264 high L4.1, yuv420p, 1920x1080]

And you are right it looks like GPU (2070 Super) is doing twice the job.

Thanks for help

[Atlantis]

I have a LG 32UD99-W (https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-32UD99-W-4k-uhd-led-monitor) monitor which is supposedly HDR. Could you please tell me what settings in madVR I should choose?

in hdr if I set to let madvr decide or passthrough HDR to display, my monitor goes to black and only restarting my PC I can have the monitor back.

For the moment I use Tone map HDR using pixel shaders. What are the best settings for this HDR monitor?

[el Filou]

@Harumi did you pause playback before taking the screenshot? You have to take it without pausing to get really precise stats for the queues, but it's already showing 27 ms avg render time which is too much indeed.
It says the source is 50 fps so it's probably being deinterlaced in the decoder filter.
Do you maybe have any other processing options active (enhancements/artifact removal/scaling refinement? If yes then disabling some can help.

[saracas]

What are these suppose to be for 4K BD HDR content on an LG OLED? https://i.imgur.com/JXe5UeH.png

I can select 4k24hz 12bit RGB or 4k60hz 10bit/12bit YcBCr422. However, they don't stick when I switch back to 4k60hz 8bit RGB and restart the computer. So I am unsure how this will even work without adjusting the setting depending on what i'm doing?

If I just use NVIDIA default, it seems to only use 8bit RGB full: https://i.imgur.com/gYFBIUA.png

[seriouser]

I'm having stuttering issues with Direct3D 11. The motion is much smoother with DX9. Strangely, enabling Error Diffusion with DX11 makes the stuttering unbearable. If I use DX9 there's no problem but I'm losing 10-bit output for HDR, right?

2080 Super, 436.30 drivers, latest madVR and MPC-HC with LAV Filters.

[Asmodian]

I must admit, never really tried AA. only standard and sharp (on 1080p material), but NEDDI3 just seems more natural, and seems to bring out different details (to be expected).

Will take a closer look at AA though.

Please do, it really is very different than the other NGUs and closely matches the look of NEDDI3. It is the odd one out of the NGUs, it does not share the same look as the NGU sharp/standard/soft family. It even shares that slight pixel shift with NEDDI3 which the other NGUs lack. When NGU was being developed it was NGU AA that allowed us to fairly unanimously agree that NEDDI3 was no longer needed.

I have been a big fan of NEDDI3 since it was only available in Avisynth and even 64 neurons rendered way less than real time on my CPU. I now use NGU AA by default. Some content really benefits from NGU sharp but usually NGU AA or NEDDI3 seem more natural to me too. :)

[oldpainlesskodi]

Will do. But would lt really hurt to add NEDDI3 back for luma though?

[nevcairiel]

NNEDI3 was the only algorithm using OpenCL, which meant a lot of infrastructure around that in madVR, nevermind that the OpenCL stuff also caused a few problems on its own - so yeah, there is a potential for hurt to keep it.

[huhn]

isn't the shader version fast anyway?

NGU AA replaced nnedi3 because it was doing the same job just better.

there was one image(very low resolution and quality anime) that was tested where it could be argued that nnedi3 was better then NGU AA the rest was generally seen as even or a clear improvement.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Ok guys, thanks for the insight.

[Harumi]

@el Filou

Yes, I managed to find the problem, it was the LAV decoder filter.
The deinterlacing mode was set to auto, and that doubled my refresh rate (and GPU usage). Once I set to disable its all good, and framerate is regular (no dropped frames).

[huhn]

you should not do this.
you now pretty much broke all interlaced content.
is there a reason you changed the interlace setting in lavfilter?

[Asmodian]

I have a LG 32UD99-W (https://www.lg.com/us/monitors/lg-32UD99-W-4k-uhd-led-monitor) monitor which is supposedly HDR. Could you please tell me what settings in madVR I should choose?

That monitor is not really HDR with peak of 350 nits. I suggest using "this display is already calibrated" to DCI-P3, pure power curve, 2.20 and using tone map HDR using pixel shaders without "output video in HDR format" checked. The other options are all about what looks best to you.

Compare with setting the calibration to BT.709 (since it is only 95% DCI-P3) but that might be oversaturated.

[el Filou]

The deinterlacing mode was set to auto. Once I set to disable its all good, and framerate is regular (no dropped frames).But are not now seeing interlacing artifacts in your TV series? (like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlaced_video#/media/File:Interlaced_video_frame_(car_wheel).jpg)
As huhn said it's bad to force disable deinterlacing. If a Blu-ray is interlaced it's usually for a good reason. You should create profiles in your madVR config, like this:if deintFps < 31 "LFR"
else "HFR"then adjust settings in the HFR profile for lower GPU usage until you have no dropped frames even with 50/60 fps content.

[amayra]

I'm having stuttering issues with Direct3D 11. The motion is much smoother with DX9. Strangely, enabling Error Diffusion with DX11 makes the stuttering unbearable. If I use DX9 there's no problem but I'm losing 10-bit output for HDR, right?

2080 Super, 436.30 drivers, latest madVR and MPC-HC with LAV Filters.

i have the same problem what GPU do you have ?

[Atlantis]

Thanks

[seriouser]

i have the same problem what GPU do you have ?

GTX 2080 Super. The render times are not the reason.

[Harumi]

But are not now seeing interlacing artifacts in your TV series? (like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlaced_video#/media/File:Interlaced_video_frame_(car_wheel).jpg)
As huhn said it's bad to force disable deinterlacing. If a Blu-ray is interlaced it's usually for a good reason. You should create profiles in your madVR config, like this:if deintFps < 31 "LFR"
else "HFR"then adjust settings in the HFR profile for lower GPU usage until you have no dropped frames even with 50/60 fps content.

Ok thanks I will try that. Currently, that option is doubling the refresh rate on my files, and costs twice the performance of the entire machine.

Btw I was not able to solve this (https://streamable.com/j89j5)and this (https://streamable.com/ryrol)(deinterlacing on/off its the same),I am not sure how this is called:

[Alexkral]

Yep, I know I'm gonna get a whole lot of pain on this one...gone back to madVR09209.zip....to my eyes, in a real life environment, nnedi3 wins hands down over NGU.

nnedi3 had the advantage of being able to independently scale the width or height, which is useful for 3D SBS or OU, but apart from that it is less sharp, which does not mean that it is worse, so trust your eyes.

That monitor is not really HDR with peak of 350 nits. I suggest using "this display is already calibrated" to DCI-P3, pure power curve, 2.20 and using tone map HDR using pixel shaders without "output video in HDR format" checked. The other options are all about what looks best to you.

+1 for using pixel shaders with that brightness, but it is clear that 350 nits is not SDR, so we should agree to call it another way, for example "HDR compatible".

Btw I was not able to solve this (https://streamable.com/j89j5)and this (https://streamable.com/ryrol)(deinterlacing on/off its the same),I am not sure how this is called:

You said you own a 2070, with LAV Filters selecting CUVID as the hardware decoder you have the option of HW deinterlacing with 25p output.

What you show is completely normal for a normal framerate, try SVP to interpolate to 60 fps and you will be amazed.

[el Filou]

You said you own a 2070, with LAV Filters selecting CUVID as the hardware decoder you have the option of HW deinterlacing with 25p output.But if the show Harumi's trying to watch is giving 50 fps with Auto deinterlacing on a Blu-ray then it's interlaced, so CUVID output at 25p would look awful.

[Asmodian]

but it is clear that 350 nits is not SDR, so we should agree to call it another way, for example "HDR compatible".

350 is not particularly bright for a SDR LCD monitor. My very old, and definitely SDR, LG W3000H (Certified for Windows Vista!) claimed 370 nits. That thing used a CCFL backlight.

HDR compatible should be limited to at least 600+ nits. That HDR400 'standard' is a bit ridiculous and this is even below that.

[Alexkral]

But if the show Harumi's trying to watch is giving 50 fps with Auto deinterlacing on a Blu-ray then it's interlaced, so CUVID output at 25p would look awful.

CUVID deinterlaces it anyway but the framerate is not doubled.

350 is not particularly bright for a SDR LCD monitor. My very old, and definitely SDR, LG W3000H (Certified for Windows Vista!) claimed 370 nits. That thing used a CCFL backlight.

HDR compatible should be limited to at least 600+ nits. That HDR400 'standard' is a bit ridiculous and this is even below that.

Yes, but the content of more than 100 nits is not SDR, it is HDR. SDR should be calibrated to 100 nits. My TV peaks at 450 nits, it has an HDR mode, and I can clearly distinguish the difference between HDR and SDR at maximum brightness.

[el Filou]

CUVID deinterlaces it anyway but the framerate is not doubled.If it's true interlaced material then correct deinterlaced output should be 50p. That's why I asked Harumi if there was interlacing artifacts in that TV series when forcing 25p output but we don't know.

[Alexkral]

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1492480&postcount=202

So it seems you're right.

[tp4tissue]

CUVID deinterlaces it anyway but the framerate is not doubled.



Yes, but the content of more than 100 nits is not SDR, it is HDR. SDR should be calibrated to 100 nits. My TV peaks at 450 nits, it has an HDR mode, and I can clearly distinguish the difference between HDR and SDR at maximum brightness.

Forget about NITs, it's all about CONTRAST RATIO..

400 nit on Oled, Looks better than 1000nit on VA-LCD..

Pretty much anything is better than IPS.

Then LMCL will come in 1-2 years and blow OLED away.

[Alexkral]

I don't think so. Overall brightness is also important to me, and OLEDs are not very good at it.

[nevcairiel]

Forget about NITs, it's all about CONTRAST RATIO..

400 nit on Oled, Looks better than 1000nit on VA-LCD..


This is only true if you can make use of the better black values, which means you need a pitch-black environment. Gaming screens and gaming setups, which is what we're talking about here right now, are not setup for that.

Also, the screen in question is not OLED. Context is important.

[Asmodian]

Yes, but the content of more than 100 nits is not SDR, it is HDR. SDR should be calibrated to 100 nits. My TV peaks at 450 nits, it has an HDR mode, and I can clearly distinguish the difference between HDR and SDR at maximum brightness.

That is not quite right. SDR does not really have a fixed target brightness like that, and well above 100 is common for brighter rooms. This is why those old monitors could go that high, for use in brightly lit spaces like an office or something. My TV is calibrated to 100 nits for SDR in a completely dark room and 120 nits would also be reasonable, especially with even a bit of light in the room. I like 140-160 nits for daylight and a lot higher is recommended in a brightly lit room. Even 350 nits is still not enough for SDR content in sunlight or other very bright viewing conditions.

I know I prefer a well calibrated SDR image at 220 nits to HDR at ~380 nits in a well lit room, but so much depends on the specifics of the tone mapping being done and probably the mastering of the HDR source too.

How are you comparing HDR to SDR on your TV? Tone mapping to SDR with madVR looks worse than tone mapping to HDR with madVR? This is complicated by the differences in the calibration between the SDR and HDR modes on various models. Your TV is also 29% brighter than the display being discussed.

[el Filou]

RTings has tested that monitor, and it can momentarily peak at a 45% higher brightness in its HDR mode: https://www.rtings.com/monitor/reviews/lg/32ud99-w#comparison_1560
EDIT: that 528 nits measurement sounds fishy because the other window measurements are at 415 max.
I'd suggest comparing passthrough with madVR's conversion to SDR with 360 real peak nits setting and the monitor at full brightness, and see which gives better results.

[seriouser]

Concerning the DX11 stuttering, the only way I can get HDR to work without stuttering is with DX9 and NV HDR. Any other option (DX11, OS HDR) causes stuttering during playback. Sometimes it's smooth when in a window but in fullscreen starts to stutter.

I've tried 4 different nVidia drivers (earliest is 431.60, the first to support 2080 Super) and also madVR's default settings, nothing seems to fix it. Changing LAV Filters to hardware or software decoded does nothing and the render times are way lower than the 42ms limit so it's not that. The stuttering doesn't show in the render steps as presentation glitches or anything.

I wonder if it's related to a recent Windows 10 update or something do with my GTX 2080 Super. I used to have a GTX 1080 and everything worked fine with it, but then that was a few Windows updates ago.

GTX 2080 Super, madVR, MPC-HC, LAV Filters. LG C9 through a receiver with HDMI.

[arcspin]

You probably already tried this but try setting present frames in advance to 1. That has fixed the issue for me when I had stuttering using my RTX 2080 card.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

[seriouser]

You probably already tried this but try setting present frames in advance to 1. That has fixed the issue for me when I had stuttering using my RTX 2080 card.

Sent from my SM-N975F using Tapatalk

I hadn't tried that but it doesn't fix it. I tried setting Low Latency Mode to "On" or "Ultra", but neither has an effect. Thanks anyway.

[Klaus1189]

But set present frames in advance in the "correct" one to "1". The correct one is the one you are using - windowed mode or exclusive mode. There is one page in madVR options for windows mode and one for exclusive mode.

[seriouser]

But set present frames in advance in the "correct" one to "1". The correct one is the one you are using - windowed mode or exclusive mode. There is one page in madVR options for windows mode and one for exclusive mode.

Sorry, I misunderstood.

And what do you know, it seems to have worked. Thank you! :thanks:

[Klaus1189]

Glad I could help you, see also my dedicated thread for drivers issues of any kind:
AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013)

[wushantao]

any graphics card will run MADVR, generally the more you spend the more power it will have in MADVR, peoples setups are too different to really recommend anything to people now, even though some try.

If you want 3D however you'll need to stay with AMD or use an NVIDA card with much older drivers.

The correlation between MADVR and gaming is close enough for most so that should be a good enough tell, the better a cards gaming chops the better it will likely be in MADVR, as a very general rule.

However the older RX polaris cards were not as good as the equivalent NVIDA cards, AMD now seems to have made up that ground though.

Best advice, spend as much as your budget will allow.

Due to RTX series cards being included in the Envy hardware solution that madshi is working on, there is the possibility (not certainty, mind) that the RTX 2060 could allow you in the future to access more features.


thank you guys:thanks:

[Alexkral]

That is not quite right. SDR does not really have a fixed target brightness like that, and well above 100 is common for brighter rooms. This is why those old monitors could go that high, for use in brightly lit spaces like an office or something. My TV is calibrated to 100 nits for SDR in a completely dark room and 120 nits would also be reasonable, especially with even a bit of light in the room. I like 140-160 nits for daylight and a lot higher is recommended in a brightly lit room. Even 350 nits is still not enough for SDR content in sunlight or other very bright viewing conditions.

I know I prefer a well calibrated SDR image at 220 nits to HDR at ~380 nits in a well lit room, but so much depends on the specifics of the tone mapping being done and probably the mastering of the HDR source too.

How are you comparing HDR to SDR on your TV? Tone mapping to SDR with madVR looks worse than tone mapping to HDR with madVR? This is complicated by the differences in the calibration between the SDR and HDR modes on various models. Your TV is also 29% brighter than the display being discussed.

I know that SDR is a relative standard, the concept of 100 nits peak white is only valid in a dim environment. In a home viewing environment it can be set up to 500 nits based on the room illumination, and similarly the gamma can be reduced to 1.8. What I mean is that the SDR content is mastered at 100 nits, that does not change when you increase the brightness of the screen, instead the lack of contrast in the highlights becomes more relevant, which looks quite awfull. This is the reason why inverse tone mapping algorithms are being developed.

HDR is usually mastered with diffuse white at 100 nits, which means that it should be seen in a dim environment, the peak brightness of your screen does not change that because it is reserved for highlights. Fortunately that can be changed with pixel shaders, in my set I like to place diffuse white between 200 and 250 nits and leave the rest to the highlights.

I could also argue that brightness perception is not linear, so that 29% is actually less, and both displays can do HDR passthrough and peak below 600 nits, which is considered a more authentic HDR.

[mclingo]

tried NGU AA last night, this is definately better than NGU sharp but for the life of me cant say why, its just looks better, its not sharper or less sharp it just looks better but couldnt describe why, what magic is this, what is it doing different?

[clsid]

NGU Sharp was designed for inputs that are of high quality (such as Bluray). While NGU AA works good for lower quality inputs as well.

[Siso]

NGU Sharp was designed for inputs that are of high quality (such as Bluray). While NGU AA works good for lower quality inputs as well.

Is NGU Sharp a good option for blu-ray chroma upscaling, or NGU AA is ok?

[nevcairiel]

NGU Sharp is not really ideal for Chroma. If anything it would be wasted on Chroma, and if you have processing to spare, put it to work on Luma instead. NGU AA is decent for Chroma though.

[mclingo]

my eyes could be telling lies then, all my material is full bluray remux 1080p/4k so max quality, which is best allround for that, NGU sharp or AA?

[Asmodian]

Is NGU Sharp a good option for blu-ray chroma upscaling, or NGU AA is ok?

I prefer NGU AA for chroma, chroma is usually not super detailed anyway and AA results in a cleaner chroma channel.

[Siso]

I prefer NGU AA for chroma, chroma is usually not super detailed anyway and AA results in a cleaner chroma channel.

I see, I will keep NGU AA then.

[brazen1]

Feel free to correct and add additional thoughts. Is the following correct?

For 1:1 2160p rips, Luma is not as important as Chroma since there is nothing to upscale when using 2160p displays. Therefor, set Chroma as high as possible and then whatever is left over apply to other settings. Since Luma really is of no importance, it can be set as low resource intensive as possible such as Lanczos 3 taps without affecting visible picture quality. Doubling and quadrupling 2160p sources on a 2160p display is worthless.

For 1:1 rips or highly compressed rips with resolution under 2160p such as 1080p, 720p or 540p, Luma becomes much more important than Chroma due to the necessary upscaling for a 2160p display. Therefore, set Luma as high as possible and whatever resources are left over can then be applied to Chroma and other settings. Luma using NGU AA is preferred vs NGU Sharp although subjective and a matter of preference. Doubling 1080p for example would be beneficial when upscaling to 2160p and quadrupling would be worthless and better left disabled or left to madVR to decide. Quadrupling 540p for a 2160p display is more beneficial than doubling so doubling should be disabled or left for madVR to decide.

Not sure what to do with 720p? I've always had it at NGU AA (med) for Luma and Chroma letting madVR decide the rest of the settings.

[Asmodian]

This is a bit of a misunderstanding or over complicating setup or something.

For 1:1 2160p content luma is just as important as it always is. For upscaling cropped UHD (e.g. 2030p or something) you still want to prioritize luma quality over chroma. If you are not scaling luma at all then setting image upscaling to NGU AA very high will not take any GPU power, so you can set chroma upscaling to a higher quality option in this case. However, there is no reason to set luma upscaling to Lanczos 3 or something. Just set the trigger for doubling to 1.5x and quadrupling to 3x and configure 'if any (more) scaling needs to be done' as desired.

For 1:1 <2160p content. Again disabling quadrupling is not important for 1080p -> 2160p, madVR is already not going to use quadrupling for that. Disabling doubling for 540p makes no sense. Doubling twice is higher quality than direct quadrupling and NGU AA does not support direct quadrupling anyway. If your quadrupling is set to direct quadruple then doubling is not used so there is no need to specifically disable it (not that you can anyway).

For 720p I do like quadrupling, so I set activate quadrupling to 3.0x. This allows 720p and below to be quadrupled while anything higher than 720p, up to 1440p, is doubled and anything above that is only upscaled with Jinc AR (or as configured), and as always - only if needed.

[nsnhd]

This is a bit of a misunderstanding or over complicating setup or something.


You are talking about chroma upscaling, right?
What about the chroma inside the NGU's in image upscaling ? When selecting NGU quality high/veryhigh you'll be able to choose that chroma as normal/high/very high. Is that chroma quality important and how to choose it ? Thanks

[Asmodian]

The chroma quality set there is automatically matched to the luma quality, no need to change it specifically. If you leave it on "let madVR decide" (recommended) madVR will use the same selection as luma, however for the chroma component of NGU image upscaling "very high" actually uses NGU medium for doubling and low for quadrupling. The only thing to tune is possibly turning down the chroma quality a bit if you are almost able to run luma on high or very high, so setting chroma to medium or low might allow a higher luma setting.

The chroma setting there is less important than the 'chroma upscaling' option.