madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[SamuriHL]

Yes, the performance should be better running native 64 bit code on a 64 bit processor with a 64 bit OS. Running 32 bit in that case provides no benefit at all.

[LordX2]

Ok - I know years ago there were stability differences between the 32 and 64 bit versions - so I figured I would ask since I am experiencing some of those odd issues.

Speaking of that - I watched some 24.000 fps content the other day, and was experiencing stuttering playback (23.976 content was playing fine). MadVR changed the resolution to 24.000 just fine, and was showing no dropped frames or glitches.

Turns out setting the present cue frames down to 1 solved that issue (I had randomly set this to 3 when trying to mess with my previous problem).

So thanks to Asmodian! I remembered he specifically had to set his present to 1.

Odd that 23.976 content played fine, but not 24.000 - but both are doing well now!

[brazen1]

I have something set incorrectly in madVR for this profile. The jagged stair stepped edges are terrible. Other players without madVR display better. Tried a few different settings in madVR but it didn't clean-up. Hoping for some tips from you guys.

https://imgur.com/pgscKtF

https://imgur.com/pgscKtF

[lvqcl]

Hoping for some tips from you guys.
Don't use D3D11 Native decode, use D3D11 copyback or DXVA2.

[huhn]

tiem to say it again stop recommanding d3d11 native for madVR it can not use it correctly.

Meaning better performance?

if you don't have access to enough memory performance is not an issue anymore because it will crash.

[SamuriHL]

^^^ LMAO! Yea, that's definitely one way to look at it. :) It is correct but it's also funny.

[brazen1]

Don't use D3D11 Native decode, use D3D11 copyback or DXVA2.

Thank you so much for the suggestion. LAV DXVA2 cleaned it right up.

I have a very diverse collection of just about every format I can think of. Apart from this one low 480p res video, will using DXVA2 instead of D3D11 Native have a negative impact on other videos such as 1080p SDR or 2160p HDR?

[clsid]

You can also enable software deinterlacing in LAV Video to solve the problem. Then it will automatically switch from Native to Copyback mode when needed.

[LordX2]

Wait - so DON'T use D3D11 native?

I thought I saw a post a little while back specifically saying not to use DXVA2 Native.

I don't use black bar detection - so is there any reason to use copyback at all?

If I don't need copyback, which Native is the right one to use, D3D11 or DXVA2?

[QBhd]

Software decoding is so much simpler. I'm glad that I always have a CPU that can handle anything I throw at it!

QB

[huhn]

Wait - so DON'T use D3D11 native?
using it is fine it should just not be recommended to other user or this will sooner or later happen.

I thought I saw a post a little while back specifically saying not to use DXVA2 Native.
yes don't use it with madVR it will lower image quality in terms of chroma and chroma position with nvidia.
I don't use black bar detection - so is there any reason to use copyback at all?
to get deint,
If I don't need copyback, which Native is the right one to use, D3D11 or DXVA2?
there is no clear answer to that. d3d11 native has perfect quality while been fast but all copyback decoder have also perfect quality but they also support all kinds of features unlike d3d11 native.

the issue is on madVR d3d11 native did nothing wrong here just to make that clear.

[LordX2]

using it is fine it should just not be recommended to other user or this will sooner or later happen.


yes don't use it with madVR it will lower image quality in terms of chroma and chroma position with nvidia.

to get deint,

there is no clear answer to that. d3d11 native has perfect quality while been fast but all copyback decoder have also perfect quality but they also support all kinds of features unlike d3d11 native.

the issue is on madVR d3d11 native did nothing wrong here just to make that clear.

Thank you for the detailed response huhn!

What are the issues with MadVR and D3D11 Native? The jaggies that the other user experienced?

Using D3D11 Native and NGU Anti-Aliasing on High, I don't notice any jaggies in particular. Although my content is limited to 4K and 1080p - so de-interlacing should also never come into the equation.

[Asmodian]

What are the issues with MadVR and D3D11 Native? The jaggies that the other user experienced?

Only the missing features, like deinterlacing and black bar detection. The "jaggies" are due to missing deinterlacing when watching interlaced video, if do not watch anything interlaced this is not an issue.

If you do not need those then D3D11 Native is the fastest option, and it has no quality issues, unlike DXVA2 Native (with Nvidia). :)

[LordX2]

Only the missing features, like deinterlacing and black bar detection. The "jaggies" are due to missing deinterlacing when watching interlaced video, if do not watch anything interlaced this is not an issue.

If you do not need those then D3D11 Native is the fastest option, and it has no quality issues, unlike DXVA2 Native (with Nvidia). :)

Awesome! Thank you.

[vanschneidermann]

What can I do when madvr do not work on the second display ? :(

Windows 11
Driver 496.73

[LenniePaz]

If we have D3D11 chosen in LAV Video, along with choosing the GPU, that enables copy back, correct? My MadVR OSD is still saying D3D11 fullscreen windowed, but shouldn't it say copy back?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[huhn]

What can I do when madvr do not work on the second display ? :(

Windows 11
Driver 496.73

wait for madshi to finish his win 11 build.

If we have D3D11 chosen in LAV Video, along with choosing the GPU, that enables copy back, correct? My MadVR OSD is still saying D3D11 fullscreen windowed, but shouldn't it say copy back?
the lavfilter d3d11 doesn't affect madVR presentation they are not directly related no decoding setting will change the presenation mode.

the line below at teh end in the ()that tells you where it get's the image/decoded image from which is for nothing copyback, software or even a capture card it just means from the "CPU" doesn't matter where it was before that. d3d11 from a d3d11 application usually a d3d11 decoder and DXVA2 from a d3d9 application.

[LenniePaz]

wait for madshi to finish his win 11 build.





the lavfilter d3d11 doesn't affect madVR presentation they are not directly related no decoding setting will change the presenation mode.



the line below at teh end in the ()that tells you where it get's the image/decoded image from which is for nothing copyback, software or even a capture card it just means from the "CPU" doesn't matter where it was before that. d3d11 from a d3d11 application usually a d3d11 decoder and DXVA2 from a d3d9 application.I don't quite understand what you're saying. Do I have copy back enabled, or no?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

[Selur]

Hi I got a HP Z27q 27-inch IPS 5K display, see: https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04591534
Problem is madVRs identification does show totally wrong values for it:
https://i.ibb.co/y02JHtS/identification.png (https://ibb.co/y02JHtS)
-> How can I fix this? Is there something to fix?
(to be clear: not the hdr part, but resolution and bit depth)

[pragmatick]

Has anybody noticed stutters / frame drops lately, perhaps with nivida GPUs? I haven't changed anything on my system lately (apart from installing a new driver) and I'm getting short frame drops / stutters that aren't reported by madVr but clearly visible.

[claw]

Nvidia Control Panel has been changing the options for Power Management and Vertical Sync in recent driver versions.

It used to be with my RTX 2080 Ti and an older driver that I would set
Power to Adaptive
Vertical Sync to ON

With the driver and Control Panel I use with my RTX 3080 Ti, the options are different.

I found this works for me to eliminate the stutter.
Power to Normal
Vertical Sync to Adaptive.

[huhn]

I don't quite understand what you're saying. Do I have copy back enabled, or no?

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

if you choice a GPU for d3d11 it will use copyback.

Hi I got a HP Z27q 27-inch IPS 5K display, see: https://support.hp.com/us-en/document/c04591534
Problem is madVRs identification does show totally wrong values for it:
https://i.ibb.co/y02JHtS/identification.png (https://ibb.co/y02JHtS)
-> How can I fix this? Is there something to fix?
(to be clear: not the hdr part, but resolution and bit depth)

it's a dual input setup as long as everythign works ignore it.

[Selur]

it's a dual input setup as long as everythign works ignore it.
Okay, thanks. :)

[Stonga]

Okay, so I have figured out that the "peak brightness" setting in madVR's pixel tone mapping menu means that madVR wont do any tone mapping before the source exceeds the nits chosen. I tried experimenting with it and when the nits is exceeded, it dims the highlighted parts of the picture and makes them a lot dimmer than my TV outputs even with "HDR Tone Mapping" disabled on the TV.

Why would I want this?

My LG C1 is manufactured this month. It is damn bright in HDR10 and Dolby Vision. Even without enabling the TV's own HDR Tone Mapping.

The only sources that exceeds my TV's peak nits are animation movies like "Into the Spider-Verse" and such and not regular movies and TV series.

Most movies report a 1000 nit source as peak nits and I rarely see any higher than 400. Other movies report a 600 nit source. "Into the Spider-Verse" reported almost 10000 as source, but never exceeded around 1000.

There is no write-ups anywhere that explains what any of the settings do except the basic ones from the non-beta branches.

One more question though. Is the TV doing double tone mapping even though I turn off "HDR Tone Mapping" on the TV?

[Asmodian]

I tried experimenting with it and when the nits is exceeded, it dims the highlighted parts of the picture and makes them a lot dimmer than my TV outputs without DTM.

Why would I want this?

Saturation also increases. The LG TVs can get pretty bright with pure white, but a bright pure red (or any color) cannot get that bright.

I don't use madVR's tone mapping for my CX, but that is why you might want to. :)


One more question though. Is the TV doing double tone mapping even though I turn it off on the TV?

Yes, you cannot turn off all HDR tone mapping. Dynamic Tone Mapping is more dynamic than it should be. I suggest leaving it off even if using passthrough in madVR.

[Stonga]

Saturation also increases. The LG TVs can get pretty bright with pure white, but a bright pure red (or any color) cannot get that bright.

I don't use madVR's tone mapping for my CX, but that is why you might want to. :)

What do you mean by that I might want to use madVR's tone mapping on the C1 and why are you not using it?

I'm not sure even where to start with the settings. I don't need the "best" settings, but something that looks better than the TV can do natively.

Yes, you cannot turn off all HDR tone mapping. Dynamic Tone Mapping is more dynamic than it should be. I suggest leaving it off even if using passthrough in madVR.

I did watch "No Time to Die" from a external HDD in Dolby Vision with HDR Tone Mapping forced enabled through the "Cinema Home" picture mode on the TV since madVR doesn't support Dolby Vision. I have to say it looked pretty good.


From what I understand, LG's own HDR Tone Mapping doesn't only make the highlights brighter, but the whole picture because it isn't dynamic like madVR's pixel shaders?

Thanks for the input and suggestions.

[Asmodian]

LG's own tone mapping doesn't only make the highlights brighter, but the whole picture.

Do you mean Dynamic Tone Mapping? DTM often makes the whole picture brighter, which is why to not use it. If you turn off Dynamic Tone Mapping it will be more faithful to the ideal image within the brightness range it can display, but it will still be doing tone mapping.

I don't use madVR's tone mapping because I haven't found settings that make all content look better than my TV on its own (without DTM). I can tune it to look better for some content, but then I find something else that goes really wrong. LG's never seems to go really bad, at least. madVR's tone mapping is still rather experimental, but I don't watch that much HDR and I haven't tried too hard with recent betas either. :o

[Stonga]

Do you mean Dynamic Tone Mapping? DTM often makes the whole picture brighter, which is why to not use it. If you turn off Dynamic Tone Mapping it will be more faithful to the ideal image within the brightness range it can display, but it will still be doing tone mapping.

I'm sorry if I mislead you. When I said "DTM" I meant "HDR Tone Mapping" on the tv OR madVR's pixel shaders. From my understanding is that LG's Tone Mapping is not dynamic like madVR's own Tone Mapping, but static. Or is that the HDR10 limitation vs HDR10+ and Dolby Vision?
I don't even have a setting called "Dynamic Tone Mapping" on my TV. I have "Auto Dynamic Contrast", but I never use that. Looks bad.


I don't use madVR's tone mapping because I haven't found settings that make all content look better than my TV on its own (without DTM). I can tune it to look better for some content, but then I find something else that goes really wrong. LG's never seems to go really bad, at least. madVR's tone mapping is still rather experimental, but I don't watch that much HDR and I haven't tried too hard with recent betas either. :o

The LG tv got a setting called "HDR Tone Mapping", not " Dynamic Tone Mapping". I guess we're talking about the same thing though?

I have updated all my posts to reflect what I actually meant.

[tp4tissue]

Don't know when it happened, but Nvidia's 23hz works really nice now, 23.9759 vs 23.9755 before.

12bit modes also survive reboots :D

[el Filou]

Has anyone ever experienced dropped frames and presentation glitches caused by... a perfectly still wireless mouse?
I experienced linked (ie : happening at the same time) dropped frames / presentation glitches every 20 seconds or so. Couldn't solve it no matter what settings I tried.
At one point I just had a hunch and switched off my mouse (Logitech MX Anywhere 2S, there is a on/off switch on it).
Problem solved, but the mystery remains…Does that mouse use the "Options" software? I have this software with my K830 and my MX Master, and it causes presentation glitches when it displays on-screen messages for Caps Lock or Battery Low, but I've never seen do it every x seconds. Try disabling the "battery low" reporting to see if maybe that's the cause. Or report it to Logitech (good luck, their support for bug reports is horrible). Downgrading the mouse software to an older version is also something to try, you never know.

[tp4tissue]

Or get their g305, problem solved.

[Asmodian]

The LG tv got a setting called "HDR Tone Mapping", not " Dynamic Tone Mapping". I guess we're talking about the same thing though?

I am not sure now. Maybe they changed the name? :o
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/dd496/asmodian3/Dynamic_Tone_Mapping.jpg?width=590&height=270&fit=bounds

[Stonga]

I am not sure now. Maybe they changed the name? :o
https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/dd496/asmodian3/Dynamic_Tone_Mapping.jpg?width=590&height=270&fit=bounds

I believe they're the same. If it doesn't show in SDR content and only in HDR mode, they should be the same. Don't take my word for it though.

I think the LG C1 actually does a good job with Tone Mapping in HDR10. Not so much with Dolby Vision. The "AI picture" also helps with the highlights in HDR. People should experiment more with it rather than just turning it off from the start. Not to be confused with "AI Brightness" and "AI Genre selection"

[flossy_cake]

Does that mouse use the "Options" software? I have this software with my K830 and my MX Master, and it causes presentation glitches when it displays on-screen messages for Caps Lock or Battery Low, but I've never seen do it every x seconds. Try disabling the "battery low" reporting to see if maybe that's the cause. Or report it to Logitech (good luck, their support for bug reports is horrible). Downgrading the mouse software to an older version is also something to try, you never know.

I downloaded the Logitech Options software the other day and noticed its GUI contains embedded video which triggers LAV Filters to run in the system tray. I'd imagine it has something to do with that -- perhaps LAV is having to filter multiple streams at once.

I had a similar issue with Firefox and YouTube where I can only play a maximum of one video at a time otherwise I can get a few dropped frames every now and then regardless of CPU usage. Even if one of the videos is just a static image with music playing in the background, it still causes some dropped frames with the playback of the video in the active tab.

____________________________

MadVR feature request: could we please get a hotkey added to the MadVR hotkeys for "toggle image enhancements on/off". This would be useful for media files which are a little on the soft side and I'd like to add a little sharpening to without having to dig through menus and then remember to turn it off afterwards.

Even better: could we have some functionality where we can place a video settings configuration file inside the folder containing our videos, which MadVR could use only when playing videos inside that folder? eg. suppose you have a whole season of videos which you want to add some sharpening to, then the user doesn't have to remember to toggle it on/off at the beginning of every video.

edit: just saw the tips.txt file which explains how to add tags to media files to automatically apply settings... it seems this may be possible with the [profile=] tag. But.. I've noticed an issue where the enhancements shaders aren't getting applied properly in full screen mode. Specifically, they are applied, but very weakly compared to windowed mode. So weakly that even at max values there is only a slight change in image. In both cases image is downscaled since the source res is higher than my display res (768p) so it's not a pre/post resize thing cause it's being downscaled in both windowed and full screen.

edit2: I'm now thinking it is a pre/post resize thing as I can't explain it any other way. Basically in windowed mode the MadVR enhancements seem to get applied pre-resize, while in full screen mode they are applied post-resize (which makes the enhancements extremely weak and pretty much unusable).

edit3: so I guess this feature request is for a checkbox on the image enhancements page to toggle between applying the enhancements pre/post resize.

edit4: I also observe the anti ringing and anti bloating filters have a much stronger effect when in full screen mode, which is suppressing the sharpening by a huge amount. With those 2 disabled, the result I observe is consistent with full screen mode getting the sharpening filters post-resize and windowed mode getting them pre-resize. Although I'm still not 100% sure if that is the explanation.

[flossy_cake]

edit2: I'm now thinking it is a pre/post resize thing as I can't explain it any other way. Basically in windowed mode the MadVR enhancements seem to get applied pre-resize, while in full screen mode they are applied post-resize (which makes the enhancements extremely weak and pretty much unusable).

I'm able to trigger the pre/post resize behaviour by zooming the image in with the numpad 1 and 9 keys in MPC-HC. The threshold appears to be at 1.2 zoom level.

i.e at 1.0 - 1.19 zoom, MadVRs image enhancements shaders appear to be applied pre-resize, while at 1.21+ zoom it appears post-resize (and thus much weaker):

1.0 zoom (image enhancements sharpening enabled to very high values for visibility)
https://i1.lensdump.com/i/gNK8Pa.png

1.19 zoom (no visible change in sharpening compared to 1.0 zoom)
https://i2.lensdump.com/i/gNKWje.png

1.21 zoom (the sharpening is now much weaker, and is the same as what appears in full screen mode with zoom 1.0)
https://i3.lensdump.com/i/gNKiqk.png

However this doesn't appear to be MadVR's fault at all, since the same thing occurs when applying sharpening enhancements through MPC-HC's own shaders dialog.

Therefore I believe MPC-HC may implementing a global rule, something like: if image is scaled by a factor > 1.2x, then apply shaders post-resize, else pre-resize.

I wish to disable this behaviour so that I can control exactly when the shaders are applied at all times.

I have seen MPC-HC's own pre/post resize setting, however that does not change the outcome with respect to the 1.2x threshold.

[flossy_cake]

However this doesn't appear to be MadVR's fault at all, since the same thing occurs when applying sharpening enhancements through MPC-HC's own shaders dialog.



Nope, I was wrong. Changing the renderer to something other than MadVR solves the issue.

Therefore it is MadVR that is implementing the pre/post resize scaling rule with respect to shaders.

Please can we have an option in MadVR to globally lock the application of shaders to pre/post resize so that we can get consistent results.

[flossy_cake]

Here is the debug osd when the issue occurs (animated png)

https://i1.lensdump.com/i/gNp1n0.png

The issue seems to occur when the scaling switches from "luma downscaling" to "image downscaling" (red arrow next to Picard's shoulder) which occurs when scaling crosses the 1.2x threshold (red arrow at bottom).

I have tried changing the scaling algorithm in MadVR settings without success.

[flossy_cake]

I have some 90s sitcoms that have a slight aspect ratio error in the horizontal direction. Basically the frame is slightly stretched horizontally by maybe 2% or something, but it's just enough to notice and make actors faces look slightly unfamiliar in the uncanny valley. The geometry is just slightly off and it's easy to fix with MPC-HC's hotkeys numpad4&6 which stretch and shrink horizontally by small increments.

But this is obviously a pain to do manually after opening every media file so I'm trying to script it with MadVR. It seems MadVR does allow applying a profile to all episodes in a folder by adding [profile=name] to the parent folder name, but it doesn't seem to support a way to do the aspect adjustment inside a profile -- or does it?

[mclingo]

Hi, MADVR development is pretty much dead fella, you wont see any feature updates we'll be lucky to even get any bug fixes at this point. Assume the worst and look for workarounds.

[SamuriHL]

Yea, at this point if it's not HDR related, it's not getting changed any time soon if ever. The rumor is the Windows 11 issues might get fixed in the coming months but that's about it. Anything outside of HDR tone mapping is unlikely to get touched.

[ryrynz]

I think he should address the forum at this point. Given how development has been in the past and how it's continuing at this point (actively) and the time that's progressed without any real communication I feel its bordering on disrespectful.

[mclingo]

i'm going to post the question on the tone mapping column to see what happens, he can only ignore it I guess.

[VBB]

I don't think madshi will ever come back to doom. These days, he replies only in the Envy (https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-madvr-envy-video-processor-owners-thread%E2%80%9D.3173897/) thread over at AVS. I hope he'll prove me wrong ;)

[biship]

He only shows up in the projector thread when he needs us to test software changes that he is putting into his hardware product.

[mclingo]

its not quite as one sided as that implies, everyone gets the benefit of the better tone mapping, it works well for all low brightness or non HDR TVs, displays and projectors, MADVR + a software player is still the best tone map to SDR option even if the others are catching up now.

[SamuriHL]

Others will indeed eventually catch up. I've already switched my usage to another product at this point. Yes, madvr is still the king of quality. However, on an OLED the quality I get with a different solution is damn good and improving daily. You are correct that the madvr HDR tone mapping updates are NOT one-sided. It was the bargain madshi struck with the community but he made it very clear that it was going to be strictly HDR tone mapping focused until that feature is "done". Several years later and it's still nowhere near complete. What I mean is there are many things that can and eventually will be improved. Just realize that the reason behind it is to improve the Envy to make it more competitive. As long as you accept that and the time limited betas and spending quite a bit of time configuring each one as things change, you can keep an updated madvr HTPC going. How long this bargain lasts is anyone's guess. I have no more desire to chase down that last few percentage of image quality these days. I'm quite satisfied with a solution that simply works without fussing with it.

[VBB]

I have no more desire to chase down that last few percentage of image quality these days. I'm quite satisfied with a solution that simply works without fussing with it.

Couldn't agree more. What's the other product, if you don't mind me asking? I know you've been using your laptop and the SHIELD since your PC died ;)

[SamuriHL]

Still am. On the laptop I'm using jrvr. It's been making some really nice strides the last few weeks. But I don't want to derail this thread which is why I didn't originally specify.

Sent from my SM-G998U1 using Tapatalk

[VBB]

Gotcha!

[Aceman21]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20211207/516559128c35705f71bfbff201b3ec60.jpg
What does the dynamic target nits do and what’s the difference between all the contrast recovery’s ?