madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[suanm]

I keep the web address in my mind.I try to upload my screenshots,Thank you.After uploading it,I will let you know

[SirSwede]

Can someone please recommend settings for:

Chroma upscaling
Image upscaling
Dithering

When scaling a 720p video to a 1080p screen with a GT740 GDDR5 card.

:thanks:

[Warner306]

Can someone please recommend settings for:

Chroma upscaling
Image upscaling
Dithering

When scaling a 720p video to a 1080p screen with a GT740 GDDR5 card.

:thanks:

Try, NGU AA low, NGU Sharp medium and Ordered Dithering.

[SirSwede]

Try, NGU AA low, NGU Sharp medium and Ordered Dithering.

Thanks!

What do I want to have in General Settings?

[SirSwede]

Try, NGU AA low, NGU Sharp medium and Ordered Dithering.

Thanks!

What do I want to have in General Settings?

Any other recommendations, of which I should take note?

[kostik]

Can someone recommend settings for :

-Chroma upscaling
-Image upscaling
-Dithering

and other settings when upscaling 720p\1080p to a 4K screen ( LG OLED 55C8 which I heard has quite poor upscaling quality . I will have it on Monday and would like to be prepared :) )

PC :

CPU: I7-7700K OC 5.1GHz ; GPU: Gigabyte GeForce® GTX 1080 WINDFORCE OC 8GB ; MB: Asus ROG STRIX Z270H ; Cooling: Arctic Liquid Freezer 240 ; Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB (2X8GB) DDR4 3100MHz, ;SSD: Corsair MP500 240GB NVMe (PCIe)+Samsung Evo 850 Pro 256GB ; Case: NZXT H440
____

THANKS!

[SirSwede]

Can someone please recommend settings for:

Chroma upscaling
Image upscaling
Dithering

When playing a 1080p video to a 1080p screen with a GT740 GDDR5 card.

[huhn]

the same settings...

[Warner306]

Thanks!

What do I want to have in General Settings?

Any other recommendations, of which I should take note?

It is really a matter of preference. Delay playback until the render queue is full and D3D11 for presentation are the only obvious settings. You would have to try the others.

[Warner306]

Can someone recommend settings for :

-Chroma upscaling
-Image upscaling
-Dithering

and other settings when upscaling 720p\1080p to a 4K screen ( LG OLED 55C8 which I heard has quite poor upscaling quality . I will have it on Monday and would like to be prepared :) )

PC :

CPU: I7-7700K OC 5.1GHz ; GPU: Gigabyte GeForce® GTX 1080 WINDFORCE OC 8GB ; MB: Asus ROG STRIX Z270H ; Cooling: Arctic Liquid Freezer 240 ; Memory: Corsair Vengeance RGB (2X8GB) DDR4 3100MHz, ;SSD: Corsair MP500 240GB NVMe (PCIe)+Samsung Evo 850 Pro 256GB ; Case: NZXT H440
____

THANKS!

It is really better if you just start with the default settings and adjust things until they look good to you. Many would recommend NGU AA or Reconstruction soft for chroma upscaling, and NGU Sharp or NGU AA for image doubling.

I would avoid Error Diffusion dithering for your 4K profile, especially if you are outputting at 10-bits. This eats up a lot of processing for very little.

[pankov]

If you have your display set to "this display is already calibrated" at BT.709 + pure power 2.2 then madVR will covert BT.2020 content to be correct on your TV, without changing any settings in your TV.

Note: any colors outside the BT.709 gamut will be clipped, you cannot display all of BT.2020 on a BT.709 display.

Asmodian, madshi,
is this true also when the "passthrough HDR content to the display" and "send HDR metadata to the display" are enabled? I don't think it would make any sense to do so having in mind that by default the TVs (and may be also projectors) will switch display modes when it receives the HDR metadata and this means (usually) totally different configuration/calibration including support for the wider color space.
I'm a bit lost on this topic but I have the feeling that we need two separate sections (one for SDR and one for HDR) for telling madVR how our displays are calibrated ... or am I missing the whole point here?
I apologize for asking this question again but I simply can't believe that madVR will behave so user unfriendly to downconvert everything to BT.709 and pure power 2.2/2.4 including real HDR content.
btw
what will madVR output in these cases (BT.709 SDR source and BT.2020 HDR source) if I select "disable calibration controls for this display"?

[huhn]

hdr pass through is not effect by this only sdr output.

i mean common how can you pass through meta data and convert it to gamma at the same time?

[pankov]

OK,
now that you say it like this I kind of see the stupidity of my question.
:stupid:

but just to be sure - the same applies to the other two options that output HDR (process HDR content by using ....), right?
And the calibration settings are actually in effect only when there is native SDR content or a conversion from HDR to SDR using either pixel shader math or external 3DLUT, correct?
If that's the case may be the calibration tab should be renamed to "calibration for SDR content"

[huhn]

you can read it in there pixelshader is by default converting it to DCI-P3. i guess it is still sending bt 2020 or at least DCI P§ and says it the screen.

and using a 3d lut is well doing color correction by using a 3d lut.

[SirSwede]

Can someone please recommend settings for:

Chroma upscaling
Image upscaling
Dithering

When playing a 1080p video to a 1080p screen with a GT740 GDDR5 card.

Try, NGU AA low, NGU Sharp medium and Ordered Dithering.

the same settings...

Is there anything else besides NGU AA low that is good for me sending 1080p to a 1080p screen?

I'd like it a bit sharper?

:thanks:

[huhn]

it's chroma we are talking about it has little effect.
you can try super xbr.

you can try adaptive sharpening what ever you like but don't expect it much from a 740.

[SirSwede]

it's chroma we are talking about it has little effect.
you can try super xbr.

you can try adaptive sharpening what ever you like but don't expect it much from a 740.

I turned on Sharpen Complex 2 in MPC-HC.

Any special recommendations for Chroma, Image and Dithering for a 1080p video on a 1080p screen, when used in combination with MPC-HC's Sharpen Complex 2?

[Warner306]

I turned on Sharpen Complex 2 in MPC-HC.

Any special recommendations for Chroma, Image and Dithering for a 1080p video on a 1080p screen, when used in combination with MPC-HC's Sharpen Complex 2?

You could try the image enhancements in madVR instead. You could also increase the strength of chroma upscaling to medium or high, if possible, but this will only have a small impact.

The rest wouldn't change.

[SirSwede]

You could try the image enhancements in madVR instead. You could also increase the strength of chroma upscaling to medium or high, if possible, but this will only have a small impact.

The rest wouldn't change.

I changed NGU to Soft and combine it with Sharpen Complex 2. It doesn't look way too sharp or not sharp enough.

If there are any reasons not to use NGU Soft, do tell! :p

[Asmodian]

Did you compare it to NGU AA? I usually prefer NGU AA over Soft but if you like soft more there is no reason not to use it. :)

[SirSwede]

Did you compare it to NGU AA? I usually prefer NGU AA over Soft but if you like soft more there is no reason not to use it. :)

Yeah, NGU AA and Sharpen Complex 2 was too sharp. NGU AA w.o. SC2 I find too soft. Shoot me, but I really like SC2.
On my older PC I combine it with good old SoftCubic80. :D

[Mano]

With madvr should i use VSFilter or xy-VSFilter?

[Asmodian]

I prefer XySubFilter (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168282), though I believe there is a known issue madshi would like fixed I never encounter any problems with it and I am not sure what the issue is. It renders to madVR in higher quality than other options. xy-VSFilter over VSFilter for performance.

[XTrojan]

Anyone know how you can force Nvidia to switch to 12bit output whenever MadVR switches refresh rate to 23/24 Hz? It's at 8bit everytime so I have to go to settings and change to 12bit.

[Asmodian]

No. If you find a way please let us know. :(

[brazen1]

Newer drivers using 12bit do not survive a reboot last time I tested. Use an older driver. I suggest 385.28. Cures an audio problem too. On the other hand, newer drivers (help) with frame drops better than older drivers but they only help, not cure. Also, 12bit is only good for displays and/or PJ's that handle 12bit correctly. Otherwise, you will introduce banding. The difference between 8,10, and 12bit is not going to be as noticeable as many assume imo but striving for it is closer to perfection.

[XTrojan]

Newer drivers using 12bit do not survive a reboot last time I tested. Use an older driver. I suggest 385.28. Cures an audio problem too. On the other hand, newer drivers (help) with frame drops better than older drivers but they only help, not cure. Also, 12bit is only good for displays and/or PJ's that handle 12bit correctly. Otherwise, you will introduce banding. The difference between 8,10, and 12bit is not going to be as noticeable as many assume imo but striving for it is closer to perfection.

There's only two options, 8bit or 12bit.

I watch 4k Mastered HDR Blurays, who have native 10bit I believe.

Would playing them back in 8bit Nvidia setting lower the PQ?

[ryrynz]

Anyone know how you can force Nvidia to switch to 12bit output whenever MadVR switches refresh rate to 23/24 Hz? It's at 8bit everytime so I have to go to settings and change to 12bit.

Asked about this some years ago and madshi said 10-bit wasn't exposed as something that could be switched to outside of Nvidia's control panel. Maybe now that he has a contact he might be able to suggest this as a feature to add.. I hope they get 23Hz profiling and the bit depth bugs fixed this year...

[brazen1]

I think 12bit dithers down to 10 even though NCP doesn't report it. Look at the OSD. Also 10bit can be selected but only if you use 4:2:2 which I wouldn't reco just to gain 12bit at the expense of using a limited color space. RGB Full 10bit addition 2D and 3D with proper 23/24Hz timings would be perfect..... and fix the audio bug.

[Warner306]

Anyone know how you can force Nvidia to switch to 12bit output whenever MadVR switches refresh rate to 23/24 Hz? It's at 8bit everytime so I have to go to settings and change to 12bit.

Does anyone know when this went wrong? Are you sure it isn't a custom resolution that is causing this?

I went through the pain of editing this post recommending this configuration: https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=223175&pid=2739438#pid2739438.

It seems kind of pointless if this doesn't work.

It would also be nice if someone more technical than me read through the guide posted in my signature. I went the through the pain of editing the entire thing for improved language and technical accuracy. My feelings would not be hurt if anything is inaccurate. I should move all of that content elsewhere, so it not stuck in the Kodi forums. The Kodi forums are just so easy to edit and format. If I can find a browser that makes editing easier, I would post it at AVSForums.

[Warner306]

It is not the end of the world to be stuck with 8-bits. I'm sure even the 8-bit FRC displays have optimized video processing for 10-bit inputs (I don't know about 12-bit), but it can't hurt to send 8-bits.

I read a post from an engineer a while ago that said internal testing of 8-bit FRC and native 10-bit panels was showing such minute differences that 8-bit panels were starting to win out in the cost/benefit analysis for more expensive displays. This is probably why neither Samsung or Sony officially report the bit depth of its displays. huhn found a post a while ago showing that all of the 2017 Samsung 120 Hz panels are 8-bit. I looked up one of them and the professional reviewer reported it as a 10-bit panel, and it passed the 10-bit gradient test. Other parts sites for older models also show some UHD Samsung displays as 8-bit.

[Asmodian]

I know my 2017 LG OLED does better with 8 bit input over 10 or 12 bit (less banding). :p

[Crimson Wolf]

Anyone know how you can force Nvidia to switch to 12bit output whenever MadVR switches refresh rate to 23/24 Hz? It's at 8bit everytime so I have to go to settings and change to 12bit.

Is this with a 4K TV? I'm only 1080p but I do not have this problem. I can switch to any refresh rate 23,24,59,60 and 12-bit stays. Even through reboot.

[brazen1]

I read that guide the day you posted it. I thought it was spot on. I can vouch for the Samsung: HDMI Black Level - Normal/Low setting names. I uncheck the 'use inverse telecine' option in NCP. You might want to add the Manage 3D Settings/Power Management Mode = Adaptive. In that Windows Program Settings, I select the 'ADD' button and add every player.exe I use. Also, Configure Surround, PhysX/Processor = Your GPU. Your guide has no faults I can see.

A few driver releases ago, the 12bit no retention after reboot started. This is no fault of madVR or how it matches refresh rates. I suppose it would be cool if madVR forced a bit depth after honoring a refresh rate but why should it? That's on nVidia and if it used to work, it can work again once someone picks up the ball making any madVR 'fix' redundant.

I bet many of the 8bit panels are also 60Hz. Can't believe any native 120Hz/240Hz interpolated panels are only 8bit? I have an older Samsung. It's 10bit. Getting a little off-topic.

[brazen1]

Isn't most 1080p aka SDR 8bit tops? You may be selecting 12bit driver output but you are dithering to 8bit for 1080p or SDR. Only UHD is higher than 8bit. Is this correct?

About the 12bit retention after reboot you say survives.…. Using RGB FULL or 4:2:2 Limited?

[Asmodian]

madVR uses 32 bit math and 16 bit surfaces, for output it can dither to any bit depth, 10 bit or lower. The GPU can then output 12 bit SDR 1080p or 8 bit HDR 2160p, bit depth, resolution, and HDR are not necessarily connected. The source bit depth is important only for the quality of the source, once we convert to RGB and scale for display we have >8 bit data even if we start with an 8 bit 1080p bluray.

[SamuriHL]

Asked about this some years ago and madshi said 10-bit wasn't exposed as something that could be switched to outside of Nvidia's control panel. Maybe now that he has a contact he might be able to suggest this as a feature to add.. I hope they get 23Hz profiling and the bit depth bugs fixed this year...

Wouldn't that be nice. I've got the frame drop/repeat thing down to something I can live with but it's nowhere near perfect. It's watchable...that's about it. And yes, the fact that it's resetting 12 bit on every reboot isn't very fun.

[Mano]

I prefer XySubFilter (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=168282), though I believe there is a known issue madshi would like fixed I never encounter any problems with it and I am not sure what the issue is. It renders to madVR in higher quality than other options. xy-VSFilter over VSFilter for performance.

Reading that thread, XySubFilter and xy-VSFilter are difference entities right?

[XTrojan]

madVR uses 32 bit math and 16 bit surfaces, for output it can dither to any bit depth, 10 bit or lower. The GPU can then output 12 bit SDR 1080p or 8 bit HDR 2160p, bit depth, resolution, and HDR are not necessarily connected. The source bit depth is important only for the quality of the source, once we convert to RGB and scale for display we have >8 bit data even if we start with an 8 bit 1080p bluray.

Unsure what you mean by 8bit HDR 2160p, are you saying that with HDR 2160p enabled it always outputs at 8bit? The infoscreen states 10bit for me.

Either way, most people here seem to agree that if source content is 10bit or not, outputting 8bit instead of 12bit via GPU seems to be negligible?

[gfxnow]

Reading that thread, XySubFilter and xy-VSFilter are difference entities right?

Yes they are different. xy-VSFilter is the old school one. XySubFilter is theoretically better with MadVR and should be updated soon to address the italics bug discovered by Madshi.

[Asmodian]

Unsure what you mean by 8bit HDR 2160p, are you saying that with HDR 2160p enabled it always outputs at 8bit? The infoscreen states 10bit for me.

I am saying that with HDR enabled it always outputs whatever you tell it to. HDR does not require it to be 8, 10, or 12 bit.

[sat4all]

Hi fellas,

My IPTV provider just added some 4k streams for the wordcup using HLG HDR, I guess it's an open standard format like HDR10.
Is there any plans for support with LAV and madVR? Does nvidia even support it?

[veggav]

i'm back with one more question:

Is it possible in the automatic switch to have it based on the source?
If 720p output 720p, 1080p output 1080p and 2160 output 2160?
And also have 23hz and 60hz each?

[huhn]

not sure why you should do that but yes.

just type all the modes in. but as a reminder i highly recommend to only use the native resolution of your screen and nothing else.

[SirSwede]

Is there anyway to change the settings by mistake from one instance of Madvr running on one computer in your home network, to another instance of Madvr running on another computer in your home network, without having actively enabled LAN access?

[SirSwede]

Is it just me or is NGU AA Chroma sharper than NGU Standard Chroma? :confused:

[huhn]

do you even look at an image that expose this?

[Warner306]

Hi fellas,

My IPTV provider just added some 4k streams for the wordcup using HLG HDR, I guess it's an open standard format like HDR10.
Is there any plans for support with LAV and madVR? Does nvidia even support it?

HLG support would be nice. It is starting to become more common for TV broadcasts.

[Warner306]

I read that guide the day you posted it. I thought it was spot on. I can vouch for the Samsung: HDMI Black Level - Normal/Low setting names. I uncheck the 'use inverse telecine' option in NCP. You might want to add the Manage 3D Settings/Power Management Mode = Adaptive.

I bet many of the 8bit panels are also 60Hz. Can't believe any native 120Hz/240Hz interpolated panels are only 8bit? I have an older Samsung. It's 10bit. Getting a little off-topic.

The power management setting could be mentioned. I don't think 3D needs to be discussed.

What display manufacturers are measuring when comparing 8-bit and 10-bit panels is noise. The video already has some noise, so detecting dithering noise is even harder to do. Their measurements seem to be showing imperceptible levels of noise in 8-bit panels compared to 10-bit panels, so they are still building 8-bit FRC panels, and some of these are high-end 120 Hz models. In some cases, you don't know until used parts are available what the actual bit depth is.

There is an article here from two years ago discussing this issue: https://www.avsforum.com/determining-display-panel-bit-depth/

[huhn]

most of the high end are 8 bit and why not?

and modern 60 hz UHD screen are usually 10 bit even cheaper ones in the past nearly every FHD screen was 120 hz even the entry level ones.
and about UHD 240 hz not existing in consumer space... no not with VA these panels can't do 120 hz properly maybe in 5 years maybe with OLED.
and maybe 120 hz at 10 bit is not doable yet with v by one.
and the last "and" every site that looks for banding to see if a panel is 8 bit or 10 bit doesn't understand bit deep even a 6 bit screen will not produce banding if it is run correctly. this has gotten so bad that a FHD 6 bit FRC screen gets similar rating for bit deep as a 10 bit or 8 bit UHD screen and UHD helps a lot in hiding dither noise.

edit: for you warner my pana uses normal, full and auto, auto is working fine on my set.