madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[el Filou]

I always kept sharpness to 50 (default) because I always assumed that 50 is 0 for Panasonics, in a sense that anything below 50 will make the screen unnaturally smoother, like for example DOOM's (2016) sharpness slider has 0 at 1/4 or some TVs that have for example 30 as 0 and anything below it increases smoothness. Are you sure 0 is recommended for Panasonics? I know there is a general sense that it should always be 0 but that is not the case for all TVs and systems since some have their "0" at a higher number other than 0.I see what you mean, my LCD monitor at my workplace does that, but here Sharpness 50 with HDMI Content Type to Off still sharpens, you can see it by looking closely e.g. at black text or borders of GUI elements displayed on grey background in Windows, there is a white halo around it. It's quite faint, but visible.

[Fabulist]

I see what you mean, my LCD monitor at my workplace does that, but here Sharpness 50 with HDMI Content Type to Off still sharpens, you can see it by looking closely e.g. at black text or borders of GUI elements displayed on grey background in Windows, there is a white halo around it. It's quite faint, but visible. So you are suggesting an absolute 0 or is there a method of calibration to figure out the non-smoothing 0?

[iSeries]

well bad news on sony screens 50% is usually neutral and yes if you go lower it will unsharp.

Indeed, and it often differs among models made by the same manufacturer. For example I have an LG LCD and neutral sharpness is actually 50. On my LG plasma, neutral sharpness is 10. It's definitely not a setting you can blindly set to 0.

[David]

@Fabulist
https://www.missingremote.com/guide/display-calibration-part-i

Steps 4, 5 and 7.

Download mp4 from the link Asmodian told you and play them with the player you use with madvr.

Try out the levels test patterns AVS-HD 709 (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/#/topics/948496), they help with understanding what your TV is doing.

[chros]

No, definitely not. This is why I don't like if people comment in this thread with "I have the same problem" or with "I noticed the same thing", because it's rarely really the same thing. The original user reported problems with DVD *menus*, not with external srt subs.
Sorry about this, my bad :)

[Razoola]

@Fabulist

There is no point in your playing around with setting on the PC until you have set the TV correctly. If the THX modes (bright and dark room)look bad it is because you have not yet calibrated them. One thing is for sure, if you use the dynamic setting the TV will be doing alot of processing. If your dead against using the THX setting, the next best would be the cinema setting.

I owned panasonic plasma for many years and never had an issue with the THX modes, they are the only modes you should use really.

Raz

[Jasch]

Thx madshi
HDR switch on RX460 is working now (92.4)

But i have still this strange "issue" (maybe not a bug).

AMD CP is set to RGB Full 4:4:4, madvr 0-255 10bit or more.
all automatic switching + hdr let madvr dec.

Playing 1080p 8bit everything fine.
4k50 looks good for me, madvr says 10bit but Avr still says 8bit
4k23 HDR, HDR working says 10 bit, AVR still says 8bit.(colors looking right)

If i set AMD CP to 10bit
1080p 8bit colors are wrong(AVR says 10bit)
4k50 madvr says 10bit, AVR 8bit(Colors i.o)
4k23 HDR, madvr and AVR report 10bit(Colors i.o).

Strange?

[dvd1]

display 60.00030Hz
clock deviation 0.00050%
smooth motion off (settings)
D3D1 1 fullscreen windowed (8 bit)
NV12,8 bit,4:2:0
movie 2 5.000 fps (says source filter)
I 720x576-> 720x437,2.34:1 (35mm film)
scale 0,70,720,507 -> 0,130,1920,949
touch window from inside
chroma> NGU Sharp (mcd)
luma x> NGU Sharp (high)4x <
luma y> NGU Sharp (high) 4x <
chroma> Bicubic60AR
vsync 1 6.67ms, frame 40.OOms
matrix BT.601 (best guess)
primaries EBU/PAL (best guess)
limited range (says upstream)
deinterlacing off (says upstream)
decoder queue 1 5-16 / 16
subtitle queue 15-16 / 16
upload queue 7-8 / 8
render queue 7-8 / 8
present queue 7-8 / 8
dropped framesO
delay Fames 0
presentation glitches 0
average stats rendering 17.01 ms
present 0.07m s
max stats (Ss) s— _______
rendering 17.59ms ____
present 0.1 2ms - _________

what should I be careful not to bring the graphics card to the limit that any video type?

[nussman]

@dvd1: madshi already answered this:

The GPU is at the limit when the average rendering time gets near to the "frame" interval (e.g. 41.71ms for 23.976fps movies).

[dvd1]

display 60.00030Hz
clock deviation 0.00050%
smooth motion off (settings)
D3D1 1 fullscreen windowed (8 bit)
NV12,8 bit,4:2:0
movie 2 5.000 fps (says source filter)
I 720x576-> 720x437,2.34:1 (35mm film)
scale 0,70,720,507 -> 0,130,1920,949
touch window from inside
chroma> NGU Sharp (mcd)
luma x> NGU Sharp (high)4x <
luma y> NGU Sharp (high) 4x <
chroma> Bicubic60AR
vsync 1 6.67ms, frame 40.OOms
matrix BT.601 (best guess)
primaries EBU/PAL (best guess)
limited range (says upstream)
deinterlacing off (says upstream)
decoder queue 1 5-16 / 16
subtitle queue 15-16 / 16
upload queue 7-8 / 8
render queue 7-8 / 8
present queue 7-8 / 8
dropped framesO
delay Fames 0
presentation glitches 0
average stats rendering 17.01 ms
present 0.07m s
max stats (Ss) s— _______
rendering 17.59ms ____
present 0.1 2ms - _________

what should I look exactly?

[nussman]

Look at:
frame 40.00ms
and
average stats rendering 17.01 ms

[huhn]

average stats rendering 17.01 ms

[Fabulist]

@Fabulist
https://www.missingremote.com/guide/display-calibration-part-i

Steps 4, 5 and 7.

Download mp4 from the link Asmodian told you and play them with the player you use with madvr.

Thanks for the article, is there a way for me to get the names of the software he uses (or a higher resolution of the images if that is all he uses)? Maybe something basic and simple for simpletons like me in order to just test the Sharpness setting?

@Fabulist

There is no point in your playing around with setting on the PC until you have set the TV correctly. If the THX modes (bright and dark room)look bad it is because you have not yet calibrated them. One thing is for sure, if you use the dynamic setting the TV will be doing alot of processing. If your dead against using the THX setting, the next best would be the cinema setting.

I owned panasonic plasma for many years and never had an issue with the THX modes, they are the only modes you should use really.

Raz

Thanks but I am testing/configuring the modes during blu-ray play or when I can get an equivalent signal from the PC (the Limited-Limited-Limited problematic mode I use). I use Dynamic mode as a basis, not as a default, pretty much everything is off and colours are set to normal. I do know what kind of processing it does, mostly.

That is why I also have a "Custom" mode which is more pure than Dynamic, as it rids of special colour adjustments, uses the native display colours, disabled extended blacks and adaptive gamma. However, it still uses an S gamma curve instead of 2.2/2.4, because it simply looks better to me and everyone else I tested it with. So the modes selected and configured where pretty much gone under a vote/discussion under multiple movies (many times the same over and over), so to speak. Dynamic is more or less for problem solving or problematic content, otherwise I use the Custom settings I mentioned above.

But no, I do not want to use the THX modes under any circumstances, they look completely broken to even use as a basis and tweak from there, something I cannot really do considering almost all options are grayed out (even advanced settings). So calibration, even if I knew how to do it, is not possible on these modes.

[huhn]

Dynamic on panasonic is vivid mode just saying but what ever.

well let's make it simple as long as you don't recommend your broken limited limited limited anywhere fine just life with it.

[Fabulist]

Dynamic on panasonic is vivid mode just saying but what ever.

well let's make it simple as long as you don't recommend your broken limited limited limited anywhere fine just life with it.

I do not know what "Vivid mode" is and I am not recommending anything to anyone, I am still waiting for madshi or someone else to figure out a solution assuming there is one and the TV or something else is not broken.

And you should be wary of rushing into conclusions, considering the 'broken' limited-limited-limited provides nearly the same image as a blu-ray player with a disc does on two different blu-ray players and TVs.

[dvd1]

when the frame 40.00ms is equal to average stats rendering 40.00 ms

graphics card at the limit?

[huhn]

sorry there is nothing to talk about limited range GPU and limited range madVR is wrong. it can't be correct under any circumstance if the rest is working correctly and setup correctly. the image output from the GPU is not limited and not full range so it is wrong.

1+1 = 2 or maybe 10 but not 3.
if the GPU is not applying the range compression and/or the AVR in the middle is playing around with the image to make it somehow work has nothing todo will not change that this setup is wrong.

[huhn]

when the frame 40.00ms is equal to average stats rendering 40.00 ms

graphics card at the limit?

it is over the limited or to make it easier if you are dropping frames you are over it.

[dvd1]

http://madshi.net/madVR/NGU/clown4xNguSharp.png I do not like
http://madshi.net/madVR/NGU/clown4xNguSoft.pnghow much do I like, what are the settings to observe them?
sd to 1080p

[nussman]

It's been repeated several times what madVR is doing for limited and full range setting.
Everything about Panasonic or others display with thx, dynamic etc. modes imho is really off topic here.
I understand that home cinema setup is difficult with all the different devices and settings, but I think for this kind of problems its better to start a new thread.

@dvd1: Yes!

[huhn]

my guess is "add grain" under image refinement. i don't see a reason why NGU sharp is totally without grain while NGU soft has grain.

[dvd1]

it is over the limited or to make it easier if you are dropping frames you are over it.
when the frame is 40.00ms
the average stats rendering how many ms should it be for not having problems?
thank you

[hannes69]

when the frame is 40.00ms
the average stats rendering how many ms should it be for not having problems?
When your average rendering time is over the frame interval time, you definitely have a problem. But depending on the GPU / hardware / software setup, the problems usually start way earlier. I have seen dropping frames starting with 75% GPU load corresponding to 30 ms rendering time for 25 fps / 40 ms frame interval time.
You have to check yourself the limit for your personal setup. Tighten madVR´s settings gradually until you see the dropped frames or presentation glitch counter climb. Then you know the limit you´ll have to respect with your settings.
BTW there are some good madVR guides out there which answer many of this sort of questions.
And you can find these guides indeed by yourself with a little help of google ;)

[nussman]

when the frame is 40.00ms
the average stats rendering how many ms should it be for not having problems?
thank you
Sorry this is a joke isnt it?
Please read:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1819823#post1819823
And tell me please what you dont understand.

[Pat357]

madVR v0.92.4 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

Code:

* slightly modified user interface for Nvidia custom mode creation


There seems to be something very counter-intuitive about the new custom mode creation interface.
With v0.92.4, I can not longer create a new custom mode or optimize an existing mode.
When I try to add a custom mode I press add then fill in 47 or something.
The next screen shows the timings for the standard modes.
I select the first and press test.
Unlike with the previous version, there is no longer an apply button to select and confirm.
All I get is the TEST and CANCEL button!
With v0.92.3 there was an additional APPLY button and if pressed I was asked to reset the GPU.
What happened to the APPLY button??
Similar for optimizing an existing custom mode the APPLY button is here also missing.

If I roll back to v0.92.3 everything is working again (APPLY button is back :) )

GPU: nvidia GTX-680
System: Win7-x64, i7 CPU

[ryrynz]

Are you sure your HDMI inputs just aren't configured differently? This is all down to your setup.. It ain't a madvr or mpc thing.

Nothing to do with madvr. Sorry. I had to change a few settings from my Samsung TV. It has an option for 'Colour space', and it was set to 'auto'. I changed it to 'Native' and voila, colours now look right.


Told ya so.

well bad news on sony screens 50% is usually neutral and yes if you go lower it will unsharp.

Gosh,bit of an exception to the rule.. the defaults are usually 50 for most and TVs come sharpened out of the box.. unsharpening for content typically displayed on a TV seems somewhat counter-intuitive.
I might have a work at work on a few Sonys and see if they still do this.

Indeed, and it often differs among models made by the same manufacturer. For example I have an LG LCD and neutral sharpness is actually 50. On my LG plasma, neutral sharpness is 10. It's definitely not a setting you can blindly set to 0.

Damn, you're only going to know with a test pattern..That's some crazy stuff. Does anyone actually have need for something like this? Like would madshi even consider adding the ability to unsharpen?
Seems like based on these settings that going backwards with sharpening is fairly easy to do with a sharpening algo.

[Stereodude]

I have a problem with madVR freezing when watching the premier of Star Trek Discovery recorded from my local CBS (1080i) station. 91.11 and 92.4 both do it. EVR does not freeze. The video and overlay will freeze and audio keeps playing. The spots for freezing are not consistent. The file is clean with no MPEG-2 errors.

It seems to be an issue with the "automatically detect hard coded black bars" feature. With it off (unchecked) playback is okay. This is probably the first IVTC'able 1080i60 content with hard coded black bars I've ever played. The feature seems to work fine in 1080p24 Blu-ray content as I haven't ever had a lockup like this before. Similarly, full screen 16:9 1080i60 (without hard coded black bars) IVTC's fine with no freezes.

I'm using MPC-HC 1.7.13 x64 / Win 8.1 Pro / Nvidia 1080.

[ryrynz]

First off reset to defaults after saving your config and check if it still does it, if it does then do some logging and submit it.

[QBhd]

That Star Trek show was an odd-ball resolution... it was Univisium (2:1) and usually most cappers crop to the 2:1, but these episodes had black bars encoded... it may in fact be a bug in madVR, or maybe a glitch in your black bar crop settings... black bars should be 40 on the top and 40 on the bottom (for 720p)... 60x2 for the 1080p rips

QB

[kingpage]

Madshi, would there be plan to bring NGU to MPDN as well? Or is there a way I could interface your files with the render script there?

[ryrynz]

I'm fairly certain he's already said no, it's his own take on a neural network architecture upscaler, having this makes madVR unique and this is important when offering a paid version as well as it being an exclusive.

[Stereodude]

First off reset to defaults after saving your config and check if it still does it, if it does then do some logging and submit it.
How do I save my current settings so I can revert to them after doing the troubleshooting?

[ryrynz]

If madVR has write access to your program directory you'll see a file called settings.bin, doesn't hurt to make a copy of that and store it somewhere.
If you launch restore default settings.bat it'll rename the settings.bin file to settings.bak so you can simply rename it to recover your settings.

[dvd1]

excuse me, I want a complete guide on madVR, sepete indicate any?
thank you

[arrgh]

Then please try running this exe and pointing it to the media player process:

http://madshi.net/madTraceProcess32.zip

The stats look ok, except for the frame drops. Do those frames drops all occur when the movie starts or when you switch from windowed to fullscreen mode? Or do they pile up during playback in fullscreen mode? What kind of judder is it? E.g. is it juddering all the time? Or once every couple of seconds or minutes?


I was traveling for more than 2 weeks and had therefore no Chance to test or to answer; now I have catched up and updated to the newest Software Versions of madVR, LAV and MPC-BE;
the Problem still persists; 2D is fine; 3D is playing fine (TV is set to 23p/3D mode), but when I close the player the refresh rate is not reverted to 50p (my standard for PAL-TV) and MPC-BE stays open with a black full screen; only a restart of the PC helps since I can not bring other windows on top;

when I switch off the "3D toggle" for my TV in the Windows controls, then I get a side by side picture on the screen; the TV informs me that a 3D-signal was recognized and I could manually switch to 3D mode; still, if I close the player it hangs too;

I switched to 32 bit LAV and MPC-BE and could use the Tracer tool, but only with MPC-BE in a window; otherwise I can not access the tool; it seems that the outcome is the same like in x64 and full sreen... MPC-BE hangs; TV stays in 23p;

https://mega.nz/#!bgFhiBpb!sNYjbZgMIBb2lBtAu2FZT-RzB9uq3KuZRy3LGAXPofc

had no time yet to look into Win8.1; but the studder was on a regular basis every maybe 2 sec;

forgot to mention in the title : Intel KBL i5 7200U / hd620 graphics

[ForceX]

I can't seem to get hard-coded black bars to crop/zoom. I distinctly remember the feature was working on this particular video in the past but now no matter which option I select it doesn't seem to work (other than the big black bars option which either doesn't remove it completely or zooms too much).

https://imgur.com/a/Yjy52

What am I doing wrong?

[jmonier]

There seems to be something very counter-intuitive about the new custom mode creation interface.
With v0.92.4, I can not longer create a new custom mode or optimize an existing mode.
When I try to add a custom mode I press add then fill in 47 or something.
The next screen shows the timings for the standard modes.
I select the first and press test.
Unlike with the previous version, there is no longer an apply button to select and confirm.
All I get is the TEST and CANCEL button!
With v0.92.3 there was an additional APPLY button and if pressed I was asked to reset the GPU.
What happened to the APPLY button??
Similar for optimizing an existing custom mode the APPLY button is here also missing.

If I roll back to v0.92.3 everything is working again (APPLY button is back :) )

GPU: nvidia GTX-680
System: Win7-x64, i7 CPU

I can confirm that there is a problem in this area (although maybe not exactly as mentioned above).

I'm also on Nvidia (GTX 1060) on Win10-x64.

One thing that's confusing is the "Test" button (which I believe is only there for Nvidia). Perhaps some mention of that could be added to the Tutorial, madshi?

The way it worked before was:

1. "Apply" was initially greyed out
2. "Test" would cause the new mode to be tested and then return to the previous screen.
3. "Apply" button is now active and would apply the new mode.

I believe that the way it's supposed to work now is:

1. "Test" causes the mode to be tested (so far, this is really no different than before since "Apply" was not an available option then).
2. The Test screen now has an option to save the mode. I believe this is meant to be equivalent to exiting the Test screen and then doing an "Apply". (My opinion is that this is an improvement over the previous method.)

The real problem is that (for me, at least) it does NOT save the mode. If you look at the registry (HKCU.Software.madshi.madVR.DisplayModeMeasurements), the new mode is NOT there.

Or, am I missing something?

[Frexxia]

I can't seem to get hard-coded black bars to crop/zoom. I distinctly remember the feature was working on this particular video in the past but now no matter which option I select it doesn't seem to work (other than the big black bars option which either doesn't remove it completely or zooms too much).

https://imgur.com/a/Yjy52

What am I doing wrong?

Set hardware decoder to DXVA2 (copy-back) instead of DXVA2 (native) in LAV filters.

[Pat357]

I can confirm that there is a problem in this area (although maybe not exactly as mentioned above).

I'm also on Nvidia (GTX 1060) on Win10-x64.

One thing that's confusing is the "Test" button (which I believe is only there for Nvidia). Perhaps some mention of that could be added to the Tutorial, madshi?

The way it worked before was:

1. "Apply" was initially greyed out
2. "Test" would cause the new mode to be tested and then return to the previous screen.
3. "Apply" button is now active and would apply the new mode.

I believe that the way it's supposed to work now is:

1. "Test" causes the mode to be tested (so far, this is really no different than before since "Apply" was not an available option then).
2. The Test screen now has an option to save the mode. I believe this is meant to be equivalent to exiting the Test screen and then doing an "Apply". (My opinion is that this is an improvement over the previous method.)

The real problem is that (for me, at least) it does NOT save the mode. If you look at the registry (HKCU.Software.madshi.madVR.DisplayModeMeasurements), the new mode is NOT there.

Or, am I missing something?

I didn't even notice the "save" option when I had v0.92.4 installed, I had to roll back to v0.92.3.
When you pressed TEST with the save option enabled, did v0.92.4 ask you to reset the GPU?
For me it doesn't ask anything.
This is probably the reason why the mode is not saved as such.

The same happens in v0.92.4 when I try to optimize a custom mode: it never asks me to reset the GPU.

[jmonier]

I didn't even notice the "save" option when I had v0.92.4 installed, I had to roll back to v0.92.3.
When you pressed TEST with the save option enabled, did v0.92.4 ask you to reset the GPU?
For me it doesn't ask anything.
This is probably the reason why the mode is not saved as such.

The same happens in v0.92.4 when I try to optimize a custom mode: it never asks me to reset the GPU.

Just to make sure we're on the same page: You press Test, a new box appears showing progress and there is a Yes button on that box to Save. When you do that, the box goes away but the mode you were testing is still active. Another box appears which mentions different ways to apply the change (same as 92.3). You dismiss that box and press Reset GPU. That causes the mode you were testing to become inactive and the mode you started in is now active again.

The main point is that after all this, the custom mode is not saved, whereas it is saved in 92.3 when you do Reset GPU.

I'm not positive (from your description) whether we're talking about exactly the same thing. I would suggest that you go back to 92.4 and try the sequence as I outlined it and see if you get the same results that I got.

Since you didn't notice the button to save and (I presume) didn't use it, it's not surprising that you didn't get asked to reset the GPU.

In any case, my results seem to show a major bug, so I'm interested what madshi has to say.

[Magik Mark]

Hi Madshi!

You have indicated in the latest version that we can track on why refresh rate optimization is not working in certain instances. How do we do this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jkauff]

I can't get optimization working on my setup either (0.92.4). I can create the modes (after going back to defaults in both madVR and Nvidia CP), but optimization never returns results no matter how long I run the player. The modes work as created, but optimization doesn't.

[arrgh]

continued from : https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1819924#post1819924

I installed the Intel driver 154519.4678 (zip version) by copying this patched inf (https://mega.nz/#!C811WayR!n6l6R1qW4XsV6DDqM0DTyz0AvC0C8yGTxXDaNcEkabA) into the grafics folder and installing manually the driver by choosing this inf; driver signatures of windows must be deactivated;

2D and 3D playback is flashing back (jumping); 2D every 3-4 sec; 3D more, maybe every 2 sec.; if I go from full screen to a window, flashing is constantly present (both in the x64 and x32 versions of the software packages); I have done some screenshots again and used the TracerTool (maybe it helps);
https://mega.nz/#!ylsXTIqA!o_gxDPfx4y_dOuie1hzitvQqhtB08l6TcRtDZRnQtR0

http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=d7ee3d-1506611058.jpg
http://www.bilder-upload.eu/show.php?file=bdc7ff-1506610827.jpg
it would be very nice to have it run under Win81
Thanks

[ForceX]

Set hardware decoder to DXVA2 (copy-back) instead of DXVA2 (native) in LAV filters.

Cool, it worked. In fact anything other than native DXVA/D3D11 works. Thanks.

[el Filou]

excuse me, I want a complete guide on madVR, sepete indicate any?
thank youmadVR Options Explained by Asmodian (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1709584#post1709584)

[Kotik]

2D and 3D playback is flashing back (jumping); 2D every 3-4 sec; 3D more, maybe every 2 sec.; if I go from full screen to a window, flashing is constantly present (both in the x64 and x32 versions of the software packages)

Out of pure curiosity, could you try with these settings:

https://abload.de/thumb/capturemhs72.jpg (http://abload.de/image.php?img=capturemhs72.jpg)

Had a similar issue with SkyLake iGPU, this worked for me, dont ask me why, got no idea, i just wonder if it resolves your issue.

P.S. Just to be clear, i was not getting any dropped frames, i was just getting screen flashing.

[arrgh]

Had a similar issue with SkyLake iGPU, this worked for me, dont ask me why, got no idea, i just wonder if it resolves your issue.

thanks for the help.
unfortunately it did not work out...

[ryrynz]

Try d3d9

[amayra]

can you add option to set profile as default

[ryrynz]

It defaults to whatever you specify, sounds like you're not setting up your rules correctly?