madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[shaolin95]

Guys stop... You won't get anywhere by complaining.

Hard truth is that madVR is abandonware and has been for a while. As much as I like this software, it's time to let go. Any development is in DTM area which directly contributes to madVR Envy and even this is progressing very slowly. Last madVR release was 30 Sep 2018 and since then there were only DTM test versions, which introduced regressions on its own (crop, smoothmotion and so on). madshi were teasing subscription model for madVR, but this never happened, clearly it is not a priority. And frankly without it, don't except any real development, bug fixes or new features, that were added to Envy like NLS. Obviously, there is no business incentive to port (enable, coz it is mostly the same codebase) them to madVR in current state.

Move on... it is not 2013 anymore.

You should be using mpv with gpu-next (libplacebo). It is easy to use, you really do not need full GUI to adjust few player settings and OSC is good for all playback related controls. Or JRiver if you prefer more.
What do you mean? mpv (w/ libplacebo) supports Dolby Vision, HLG, which madVR does not and doesn't look like it will anytime soon ...and uh upscaling is also supported. Notably libplacebo is superior to madVR it almost every way, more future complete, modern, open source and cross platform. It has better performance, better customizability, film grain synthesis on GPU, tonemapping, frame blending, all color managment stuff. You name it... I think only madVR feature that is missing is dynamic crop, but this is also little broken in recent madVR test build.

I will not convince you to switch, but to be honest your time would be better spent reporting mpv issues/requests, than complaining about lack of madVR development here.

Well I have been trying MPV with lots of settings and so far it fails to approach what the madvr tone mapping can do unfortunately. Still trying

[quietvoid]

It makes no sense to take DV streaming content and convert it (butcher it really) into SDR

This is just straight up incorrect.
All it does it convert it to PQ + BT.2020, the rest is dependent on your output settings.

If you output SDR, then it is tone mapped.
If you output HDR, you can still tone map or passthrough the PQ image, resulting in playback identical to playing an HDR10 version.

Not everyone has a Dolby Vision setup, and sometimes the Dolby Vision version is just better image quality.

[brazen1]

I am not able to find the option to disable madVR tray icon, but madVR OP does say that madVR looks for subtitles or whatever other material related to current video playback over LAN. It doesn't just try to connect to LAN, but also to WAN. It attemps to use DNS settings specified in Windows network options to resolve whichever domain addresses. All local multicast discovery protocols (mDNS, IGMP, LLDP, LLMNR, 224.0.0.0-255.255.255.255 IP range, etc) are disabled on my network via Windows client settings and via router VLAN isolation settings. For what can madVR be looking over WAN???

Maybe for Crash Report.

[dbezerra]

This is just straight up incorrect.
All it does it convert it to PQ + BT.2020, the rest is dependent on your output settings.

If you output SDR, then it is tone mapped.
If you output HDR, you can still tone map or passthrough the PQ image, resulting in playback identical to playing an HDR10 version.

Not everyone has a Dolby Vision setup, and sometimes the Dolby Vision version is just better image quality.

Agree. If it was just about dynamic ToneMapping, then MadVR is actually doing a great job there. However, we are missing the FEL improvements as an example. And the number of releases with subpar Base Layer keep increasing every month. Studio Canal releases, as an example, are often problematic and rely on FEL to fix their issues.

[glc650]

This is just straight up incorrect.
All it does it convert it to PQ + BT.2020, the rest is dependent on your output settings.

If you output SDR, then it is tone mapped.
If you output HDR, you can still tone map or passthrough the PQ image, resulting in playback identical to playing an HDR10 version.
Good to know. Last I checked (several months ago) HDR tonemapping/passthrough wasn't supported. When did this change?

[kasper93]

from https://itsfoss.com/linux-market-share/:


Statcounter: Linux occupies 2.6% of the market share compared to 15.74% for macOS and 75.93% for Windows.
W3Schools: As of October 2022, Linux has a grip on 4% of the market share, compared to 9.8% of macOS and 70.4% of Windows.
Steam Survey: In terms of desktop gaming, Linux has a market share of 1.28% (Ubuntu, Arch, Manjaro as the top-three) when compared to 2.23% for macOS and 96.50% for Windows.
Statista (last updated on June 2022): The Linux desktop market share was 2.42% when compared to 14.64% for macOS, and 76.33% for Windows.


No ease-of-use -> no market share. I don't tell you to use linux or even command line. I will take mpv documentation (https://mpv.io/manual/master/) over madVR's "easy" UI everyday. At least you have description of options and what they do, unlike here, where you need to read thousands of forum posts to figure out what this option does. For mpv, you just need to know how to operate text editor to edit configuration file... you do this once to setup everything and forget about it. And I'm sure that madVR users are more power users in general. Anyway I'm not here to discuss this. I made a comment about the state of madVR with a context of libplacebo as a viable replacement. Like I mentioned you can also use JRiver or even VLC if it is your cup of tea.
Good to know. Last I checked (several months ago) HDR tonemapping/passthrough wasn't supported. When did this change? Long time ago(TM). Passthrough Apr 2020, tone mapping, depends what method you care about. But the point is in current state it is good enough to be used. I'm not delusional to recommend something that wouldn't work... And responding to your previous post, development is a iterative process, if there are limitations that bothers you feel free to report them.

Sorry for OT, I will no longer discuss this topics in this thread. I only wanted to give context around madVR lack of development.

[shaolin95]

from https://itsfoss.com/linux-market-share/:


Statcounter: Linux occupies 2.6% of the market share compared to 15.74% for macOS and 75.93% for Windows.
W3Schools: As of October 2022, Linux has a grip on 4% of the market share, compared to 9.8% of macOS and 70.4% of Windows.
Steam Survey: In terms of desktop gaming, Linux has a market share of 1.28% (Ubuntu, Arch, Manjaro as the top-three) when compared to 2.23% for macOS and 96.50% for Windows.
Statista (last updated on June 2022): The Linux desktop market share was 2.42% when compared to 14.64% for macOS, and 76.33% for Windows.


No ease-of-use -> no market share.
Not only that but I am yet to see the same DTM quality I get from madvr. I would love to have an alternative that works as good or better but sadly mpv is not doing it for me :/

[el Filou]

I am not able to find the option to disable madVR tray iconClick on the tray icon, then "Tray icon settings"It doesn't just try to connect to LAN, but also to WAN. It attemps to use DNS settings specified in Windows network options to resolve whichever domain addresses.What domains is it trying to reach exactly? If you're that worried, is it not possible to just set your firewall to block everything it tries and forget about it?
I thought it only used local network for remote control.

[Schwartz]

kasper93: mpv can't reach madVR quality in Chroma upscaling. Its Bilateral equivalent is very visibly inferior to madVR Bilateral. Luma upscaler situation is much more even between the two. I don't see a reason to "let go" of superior software. No real security concern and it still works on modern OS.

As far as performance... NGU is expensive, and so are some of mpv's options. Given similar quality settings, GPU use is roughly similar as well. And mpv itself still is not as efficient as MPC-HC on legacy hardware where it's EVR-CP vs. mpv with simple bicubic setting. That was what made me initially happy to go back to MPC-HC on the old Thinkpad. Noticeably lower CPU use.

[huhn]

the biliteral in madVR is open source and the one in igv is from the same creator btw. so they are the same if not the one in mpv is newer because madVR doesn't update stuff like this.

you can find all "5"(3) of them in the legal stuff part.
and if the one you think is superior is missing you either haven't found it for mpv or no one cared to port it yet.

[Schwartz]

Yes I read something like that. I set it up and compared the two Chromas, that was in April '22. mpv (https://ptpimg.me/r13vd6.png) and madVR (https://ptpimg.me/5s89zq.png). I was surprised how different it looked.

[kasper93]

kasper93: mpv can't reach madVR quality in Chroma upscaling. Its Bilateral equivalent is very visibly inferior to madVR Bilateral. Luma upscaler situation is much more even between the two. I don't see a reason to "let go" of superior software. No real security concern and it still works on modern OS. Oh my... don't put that one me now. I didn't start this discussion. It was multiple guys who were complaining that madVR is actually not working for them on newer GPUs or something. So while you may not see a reason to "let go", others might have different experience.

As for Bilateral in madVR it is originally from Shiandow and you have sources included in madVR.zip for legal reasons. So it is not some madVR secret sauce that is "better" than others. The mpv version is maintained here https://gist.github.com/igv/a015fc885d5c22e6891820ad89555637 I don't know history, what version is derived from where.

For luma, well, you can take a look here
https://artoriuz.github.io/blog/mpv_upscaling.html

NGU is madVR is very good, never said it isn't. But at the same time FSRCNNX is good too.

[huhn]

Yes I read something like that. I set it up and compared the two Chromas, that was in April '22. mpv (https://ptpimg.me/r13vd6.png) and madVR (https://ptpimg.me/5s89zq.png). I was surprised how different it looked.

that's a color space difference not a scaler.
not the same screen anyway.

[Schwartz]

Maybe I'll get around to testing them again with a decent still image.
Anyway the loss of Chroma accuracy is obvious. To me, anyway.

[pirlouy]

Given similar quality settings, GPU use is roughly similar as well. And mpv itself still is not as efficient as MPC-HC on legacy hardware where it's EVR-CP vs. mpv with simple bicubic setting. That was what made me initially happy to go back to MPC-HC on the old Thinkpad. Noticeably lower CPU use.
I disagree.
I used HWiNFO and even a Wattmeter (some years ago) to verify this. madVR with minimal settings uses more ressources than mpv/VLC/MPC VR/EVR. In the past, madshi said madVR wad not optimised and it was planned for madVR 1.0.
Between mpv/MPC VR/VLC, the differences were so small (in ressources usage) that it depends on what you want (image quality / UI / general preferences).

I understand you prefer madVR (no problem), but I just wanted to disagree on ressources statement.
(hoping madshi is not reading this anymore because he didn't like when we were speaking about competitors in this thread)

[Schwartz]

mpv resource usage also depends hugely on settings used, just like with madVR. Maybe I consider it more reasonable because I never use Error Diffusion and that jumps GPU use well beyond mpv with its most expensive setting. With ED off and NGU, they aren't too far apart.

I also want to like mpv since it's now available for Windows. If I could only get Chroma to not suck I would be compelled to switch. Well that and I like useful UIs. There's an UI version of mpv around but even that is very "linuxy".

[e-t172]

Long time ago(TM). Passthrough Apr 2020

It's worth noting that mpv did not quite implement passthrough correctly until very recently, as it was not providing proper HDR peak luminance metadata to the display (https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/issues/10129). That was only implemented a few months ago and not by default - you need to pass specific options to make it work. Also, AFAICT, the API that mpv uses to do that only really works on Windows 11, not Windows 10. (madVR can use the Nvidia private HDR APIs to work around that limitation.)

[kasper93]

It's worth noting that mpv did not quite implement passthrough correctly until very recently, as it was not providing proper HDR peak luminance metadata to the display (https://github.com/mpv-player/mpv/issues/10129). Only for d3d11, Vulkan was working since before, if supported by driver, but on Windows it generally works.
Also, AFAICT, the API that mpv uses to do that only really works on Windows 11, not Windows 10. Wrong, the API is available on Windows 10 too.
(madVR can use the Nvidia private HDR APIs to work around that limitation.) Yeah, I mean... 0000674: madVR hdr does not work on windows 11 newest build (http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=674) submitted 2021-08-20 11:41. Also I don't understand what your point is? HDR was not working, on certain configuration, and is now working, is a good thing, no? It only proves my point that one of this software is maintained and improved, and the other is not...

Back to HDR passthrough. It is not really recommended to use passthrough nowadays, unless you trust your display. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/dxgi1_5/nf-dxgi1_5-idxgiswapchain4-sethdrmetadata It is no longer recommended for apps to explicitly set HDR metadata on their swap chain using SetHDRMetaData. Windows does not guarantee that swap chain metadata is sent to the monitor, and monitors do not handle HDR metadata consistently. Therefore it's recommended that apps always tone-map content into the range reported by the monitor.

[el Filou]

It is not really recommended to use passthrough nowadays, unless you trust your display.It is no longer recommended for apps to explicitly set HDR metadata on their swap chain using SetHDRMetaData. Windows does not guarantee that swap chain metadata is sent to the monitor, and monitors do not handle HDR metadata consistently. Therefore it's recommended that apps always tone-map content into the range reported by the monitor."the range reported by the monitor" can't always be trusted either. ;)

[Damien147]

Is 4:4:4 really useful with Madvr?Is there any real benefit?

[Asmodian]

With madVR the benefit is minimal, but there is some.

One of madVR's main selling points is improved chroma scaling and any screen that does not display 4:4:4 damages the chroma unnecessarily.

Both chroma planes are scaled to 50% horizontally in the TV, not a good thing, but definitely worse with native 4:4:4 content like PC games than with madVR. :p

[Damien147]

Madvr+4:4:4+smooth motion(because I have to use 60hz only for 4:4:4)
or
Madvr+sacrifice 4:4:4+23hz

What do you suggest that will give me best benefit?I really want to disable smooth motion and use 23hz,24hz and so on but I won't have 4:4:4.
What is the wisest thing to do?


If option 2 what pixel format do I put in gpu?Also I set madvr to TV levels?

[e-t172]

Wrong, the API is available on Windows 10 too.

It is, but in my experience it doesn't work (as in, the metadata isn't actually sent to the display). It does work in Windows 11. I haven't checked recently though.

Yeah, I mean... 0000674: madVR hdr does not work on windows 11 newest build (http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=674) submitted 2021-08-20 11:41.

That doesn't match my experience. madVR HDR passthrough works just fine on my Windows 11 setup.

Also I don't understand what your point is? HDR was not working, on certain configuration, and is now working, is a good thing, no?

My point was correct HDR passthrough has only been available in mpv recently and only if you pass the magic set of config incantations. But if the stars align it does work, yes.

In madVR, it just works out of the box, and has been for years.

It only proves my point that one of this software is maintained and improved, and the other is not...

I agree that given the current state of madVR development, it is inevitable that mpv (and other software) will surpass it. Not sure we're there yet, but it's getting pretty close.

Back to HDR passthrough. It is not really recommended to use passthrough nowadays, unless you trust your display. https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/api/dxgi1_5/nf-dxgi1_5-idxgiswapchain4-sethdrmetadata

Sadly, my display (LG G1) does not provide peak luminance metadata in its EDID. I'm a bit surprised that Microsoft would ignore the possibility of missing monitor info in their docs - I guess they must be assuming VESA DisplayHDR-compliant PC monitors and don't care about TVs. I could override the EDID and let the player tone map, but I'm pretty satisfied with LG's built-in tonemapping.

[nevcairiel]

It is, but in my experience it doesn't work (as in, the metadata isn't actually sent to the display). It does work in Windows 11. I haven't checked recently though.

No idea when you tested, but it certainly worked for the last year, which is about the time i've been using it, with a HDMI analyzer to confirm.


That doesn't match my experience. madVR HDR passthrough works just fine on my Windows 11 setup.


As someone that has been trying to help users get stable HDR pass-through working for years, its a minefield at best.
The release version also has that fun bug where you need to shut down the player before you play SDR again (which maybe was fixed in one of the betas? but the timeout makes them impossible to use or even recommend).

After creating my own renderer based on libplacebo (the same backend library mpv uses for gpu-next), the topic has been much more reliable. And its open-source, which means I had D3D11 HDR pass-through in there for a while before we managed to get it all sorted for the upstream version.

[huhn]

that's my bug report and it is pretty old.
i don't have an AMD card connected to an HDR display anymore so i can not reproduce the issue anymore but there are still user talking about passthrough issue on win 11 using AMD if these are limited to old win 11 version or not is not for me to say.

could be absolutely fine could be broken or a random minefield on 20h2.

[Klaus1189]

@huhn: What setup do you have now?

[huhn]

the same as before the PC just switched places.
my current windows PCs are these two:
3700x with 1060 32 gb ram win 10
5600x with 5700 xt 32 gb ram win 11 20h2

the 5700 xt is most likely going to stay with me for much much longer.
the 1060 was supposed to be replace for 2 years now with a ~200 euro sub 150 watt HDMI 2.1 nvidia card which will not happen anytime soon. maybe a RDNA 3 time will tell. if the RX 6500 XT wouldn't use a 4x interface i may got myself one but that's a bad idea with madVR.

[Noobius]

Zoom black bars away seem to cause PC crash reboot, RTX 3070
MPC-BE
D3D11 full screen exclusive
Newest nvidia drivers
MadVR 0.92.17
Win10 64 bit
CPU I7-8700K

GPU temps seem fine, hardly 50% GPU utilization

Edit:
Could be associated with heavy processing settings and related GPU spiking.

Edit 2:

high quality settings + seeking => GPU power spiking

https://imgur.com/a/quddg7j

Could be then PSU not capable of handling the requested power draw?

I have a EVGA Supernova 750 G2, 80+ Gold 750W PSU - should be enough for RTX 3070

[Klaus1189]

What OS?

[Noobius]

Win 10 64 bit

So it isn't about zoom black bars away per se but I guess that functionality adds another taxing operation on top.

While having high quality upscaling & downscaling settings in place + seeking or e.g. loading a 2160p file causes spiking for the GPU leading to power spikes => crash.

EDIT:
LOL I have 3 PCs and the one with RTX 3070 installed has a BE QUIET 400W PSU not 750W

[Charky]

Like I mentioned you can also use JRiver or even VLC if it is your cup of tea.
Seconded. JRiver now has its own renderer developed by Nevcairel/Hendrik, under active development, and it has everything I personnaly need for my LG C8 (mainly : quality algorithms, framerate matching, HDR passthrough). Only downside is its truly AWFUL UI, but I can live with that.
I only use madvr with my Win 10 install for my projector, because it works.

[vanden]

hello,

Is there a way to read in 3D (bluray 3D or MKV mvc) mpc hc + madvr in Window 11?

It worked fine in Windows 10...

[brazen1]

hello,

Is there a way to read in 3D (bluray 3D or MKV mvc) mpc hc + madvr in Window 11?

It worked fine in Windows 10...

LAV Filters installation probably.

[vanden]

LAV Filters installation probably.

I just installed libmfxsw64-v3.7z in MPC\LAVFilters64 folder (H 264 MVC 3D).

I have the reading in 3D :https://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18251&stc=1&d=166911220

But in full screen (when I follow on the video projector) it does not display in Frame Packing 1920x1080 24Hz ...

It worked fine in Windows 10...


Edit:
Is not the problem with HDR, my video projector and screen 2. (Currently it is not connected).
https://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18252&stc=1&d=1669134443
https://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18253&stc=1&d=1669134443
https://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18254&stc=1&d=1669134443
The problem is when it is plugged in.

Another bug with Windows 11: More in "display modes" "custom modes" ...
https://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18255&stc=1&d=1669134988

[vanden]

I have the same problem with just the projector (only screen).

https://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18256&d=1669157229
https://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=18258&d=1669158258

[Noobius]

With my projector I need to manually set the projector to the appropriate 3D mode

[vanden]

With my projector I need to manually set the projector to the appropriate 3D mode

My projector is already set to 3D Frame Packed 23.976 fps...
PowerDVD 19 (64-bit) and StereoPlayer 2.5.1 works fine...

EDIT :
Has anyone tested with Windows 11 22H2 and can tell me if it works ?

[dead_seth]

Hello everyone.
I have so many dumb questions to ask...

I have an AMD RX vega64, an LG 27GP850 (1440p hdr400) monitor, and most of my movies are on 1080p

1.Im gonna change my gpu. Is it better an AMD6900XT or Nvidia 3080 to max out madvr?
2.Whats the best settings for my setup?
3.I combined madvr +Lavfilters + potplayer. Is that the best combination?

Thanks.

[mclingo]

Personally, AMD has some issues with their card, see the driver thread but most wont experience these issues but it depends on your setup, how your movies are encoded / how your TV is setup and what type of TV you have, right now I think NVIDIA is the best bet, a 3060 would be best for most people i'd say as you have diminishing returns when upscaling 1080p stuff, it generally looks good on very low MADVR settings to most eyes so you dont need loads of raw power.

I use an amd RX5700, its got enough grunt for me and I see no issues when using KODI DS for 3D MVC SDR and HDR movies, but i'm aware others do have issues.

See this thread for all AMD issues:



https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=176013

PS: I mainly use AMD as it still has baked in 3DMVC support and fully supports 23,976 with zero frame drops for days, you can get this with NVIDIA cards but you need to create custom resolutions and it can be a faff for some people.

[Anime Viewer]

During playback I am encountering a couple of pixels grouped in a horizontal row together flashing neon green during video playback, when they don't flash the picture/scene displays perfectly fine. I will post screenshots later when I get a chance, but in the meantime does anyone have suggestions on what settings to check that may be causing it?

I'm running on a Windows 10 PC that has an Optimus Intel HD4000 series GPU with Nvidia 680M as well. Unfortunately the Nvidia drivers haven't worked for some time (I think either a Windows update or Intel driver update started the problem, and trying to revert to previous driver versions for both Intel and Nvidia have not fixed the issue to let me use the Nvidia GPU for anything in Windows), so I'm stuck running on the Intel GPU.

[el Filou]

Is it always the same pixels?
Try to change the decoding method used in the video decoder (DXVA/D3D11 native; DXVA/D3D11 copyback), or the presenting method of madVR (D3D11/D3D9).

[x7007]

Guys stop... You won't get anywhere by complaining.

Hard truth is that madVR is abandonware and has been for a while. As much as I like this software, it's time to let go. Any development is in DTM area which directly contributes to madVR Envy and even this is progressing very slowly. Last madVR release was 30 Sep 2018 and since then there were only DTM test versions, which introduced regressions on its own (crop, smoothmotion and so on). madshi were teasing subscription model for madVR, but this never happened, clearly it is not a priority. And frankly without it, don't except any real development, bug fixes or new features, that were added to Envy like NLS. Obviously, there is no business incentive to port (enable, coz it is mostly the same codebase) them to madVR in current state.

Move on... it is not 2013 anymore.

You should be using mpv with gpu-next (libplacebo). It is easy to use, you really do not need full GUI to adjust few player settings and OSC is good for all playback related controls. Or JRiver if you prefer more.
What do you mean? mpv (w/ libplacebo) supports Dolby Vision, HLG, which madVR does not and doesn't look like it will anytime soon ...and uh upscaling is also supported. Notably libplacebo is superior to madVR it almost every way, more future complete, modern, open source and cross platform. It has better performance, better customizability, film grain synthesis on GPU, tonemapping, frame blending, all color managment stuff. You name it... I think only madVR feature that is missing is dynamic crop, but this is also little broken in recent madVR test build.

I will not convince you to switch, but to be honest your time would be better spent reporting mpv issues/requests, than complaining about lack of madVR development here.
How can I see Dolby vision? MPV doesn't do much, where do I get the libplacebo?

[ryrynz]

More quote than post. *chef kiss*

[mclingo]

How can I see Dolby vision? MPV doesn't do much, where do I get the libplacebo?

i've had a go at MPV as well, its great as a chuck anything at it player but having no on screen controls or gui accessible settings out of the box means its just not an option for most people, I just cant be arsed to invest in the time required to put into this to get anything more out of it, it really needs a more user-centric version, even something as basic as the MPC builds would be a start.

[pirlouy]

@x7007: gpu-next (https://mpv.io/manual/master/#video-output-drivers-gpu-next) option
But this thread is not adapted. Try this one (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=174841).
(careful with big quote indeed)

[x7007]

Randomly the 0-255 and 16-235 stop working when trying to change in madvr, why does it keep happening?

also 10bit still stop working randomly, when restarting explorer.exe it returns to work.

[huhn]

win 11?

[x7007]

win 11?

yes, I don't know if it happened with win 10

[huhn]

win 11 22h2 can break the device tab.

beta 165 and newer is supposed to fix that.

[x7007]

win 11 22h2 can break the device tab.

beta 165 and newer is supposed to fix that.

but using this version will stop HDR to work after awhile or something? or other things, like a demo version?