madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Oguignant]

Hi! Is there any manual or web where I can find published information of which is each option in the configuration? I'm new using madvr (only 1 year ago) and I want to understand the differences between the changes I make, specifically upscaling.

[Backflash]

Hi! Is there any manual or web where I can find published information of which is each option in the configuration? I'm new using madvr (only 1 year ago) and I want to understand the differences between the changes I make, specifically upscaling.

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1709584#post1709584


this is also decent starting point if you know absolutely nothing, I'd change a lot of things in that guide but it's good reference point

https://imouto.my/tutorials/madvr/


P.S. Quoting seems to work again.

[Neo-XP]

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1709584#post1709584


this is also decent starting point if you know absolutely nothing, I'd change a lot of things in that guide but it's good reference point

https://imouto.my/tutorials/madvr/


P.S. Quoting seems to work again.

This one is also very good : http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

[pose]

Hi! Is there any manual or web where I can find published information of which is each option in the configuration? I'm new using madvr (only 1 year ago) and I want to understand the differences between the changes I make, specifically upscaling.
Read this Warner306's guide http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

[StinDaWg]

Does anyone else have issues with Windows occasionally locking up to a black screen after exiting/closing a video while in fullscreen exclusive mode? This happened here or there in the past with D3D9 FSE, but with D3D11 FSE it seems to be happening more often (couple times a week). About 5% of the time after closing the player the screen will go black, and I will have to do a hard reset with the power button and reboot the pc.

As a test if I quickly cycle between windowed and FSE over and over occasionally it does the same thing and just crashes to full black screen.

Windows 10 x64
HD 7770 with latest AMD drivers
MPC-HC as player


I thought it was due to PotPlayer that I sometimes got a black screen for a second or two when closing it but creating a "madVR\DontRenderAfterStop" empty folder fixed it as far as I can tell. Prolly unrelated to your problem, though as I always was able to at least open the taskmanager and kill PotP.
Unfortunately this didn't help. Just got 2 Windows black screen lockups on player exit.

I guess I will have to give up 10 bit support and use D3D11 windowed mode. Having to restart my pc several times a week due to black screen lockup is getting too annoying.

Interestingly, present stats are actually lower in windowed mode and Windows screen saver works again when a video is paused.

[burfadel]

At least I know I'm not the only one who may have to do a hard reset at times. Sounds like your problems are related to mine.

[StinDaWg]

At least I know I'm not the only one who may have to do a hard reset at times. Sounds like your problems are related to mine. Why kind of card do you have?
AMD HD 7770, but I also had same issue with 7850.

[madshi]

I want to report a bug, I can't select chroma quality very high when using luma NGU High.
That's intentional, because luma is much more important than chroma, so it doesn't make sense to use a higher quality setting for chroma than for luma. The settings dialog tries to prevent you from shooting yourself in the foot.

Is there any reason why the 'chroma quality' drop down box is greyed out when NGU is enabled and is only available when NNEDI3 is used?
It depends on the NGU quality level. NGU "low" and "medium" quality levels are tweaked for best speed, and for these madVR is forcing the use of a very fast chroma algo, too. It just wouldn't make any sense to use such a fast NGU quality preset for luma, and then to slow things down to a crawl by using a slow chroma algo.

The chroma quality drop down box should become available if you select NGU "high" or "very high" quality levels, though.

madshi, anti-ringing checkbox in image downscaling is greyed out for me. Switching to chroma upscaling and back makes it active until I close the settings window.
Oh, I'll have to check that.

In "Chroma upscaling" the default setting is now "Bicubic60" while it was 75 before.

Why did this change? Is it better to leave it at 60 now?
It was always a somewhat "random" choice to use 75. I've switched to 60 now because at some point I did some tests and found 60 to be more scientifically "correct" than 75. It's still somewhat of a random choice, though.

NGU still oversharpens noticeably on mid-quality SD content.
FWIW, NGU doesn't really intentionally sharpen anything. NGU works by interpreting the source images as a downscaled version of a high-res master, and then NGU simply tries to output a best guess at what the original high-res master might have looked like. This educated guess often ends up looking quite sharp, but there's no artificial sharpening involved.

I'm fine with the new doubling dialogue, turns out it quadruples the lighttower picture when setting NGU to always activate as supersampling (which is no problem since the setting is only for a profile with high scaling factor).
This should work without having to activate supersampling. Quadrupling is only used starting with NGU-Med, though. NGU-Low doesn't ever quadruple.

since v0.91.2 I have a problem when NGU image upscaler uses Bicubic60 to process chroma. The picture is a mess of coloured rectangles and mostly freezed while I can see that the luma part is moving.
Strange stuff. Is it possible you're running out of GPU RAM, maybe? Does lowering the GPU queue size help?

I recommend that everyone who wants a particular option available post a screenshot showing the improvement with your content. madshi has always been responsive to suggestions when shown real benefits. :)
Always a good idea!

Also, things in the settings that still need to be clearer:
- "downscale quality" should also say what the algorithm actually is.
- "chroma quality", what is this and why is it active with NNEDI3 but not NGU?
- NNEDI3/NGU, "activate only if it's useful", what is being used to upscale when it's *not* useful?
These thoughts have been posted before and I've already replied to them earlier.

I only tested this last night but I seemed to get better performance from NGU than NNEDI3 (On a 980Ti).

How is that possible over Pascal cards?
NGU is faster than NNEDI3, that's not a surprise, but it depends also on which NGU quality level and which NNEDI3 neuron count you're using, of course.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/192201 (i think the glitches can be ignored, they only started when i disabled overlay to take the screens)

well i love sharpness, but even for me NGU is too destructive to even clean low res animation compared to nnedi3
Which upscaling factor is that?

hi all, i'm a madvr user since many years and i really love it. i use it 90% for bluray upscale to 4k TV.
i like NGU very much and i can't think about using different algos from now on.
Thanks!

I know madshi has implemented a warning for SuperRes but also note this should apply to the "artifact removal" section for "reduce ringing artifacts".
Agreed. I've already thought about adding the warning for that, but then some users mentioned that they still liked to do "reduce ringing artifacts" even when using NGU, so I hesitated.

I think its perfectly logical - you want to upscale the image, and all options that affect this process should be combined in one place. It doesn't seem logical that the "downscaling" options would affect the upscaling process - no matter what it does internally.
Agreed, that were my thoughts, exactly. But it seems many users don't like it, so I'm considering changing this again.

I think the goal for madshi is to make NGU just an option like Jinc without any drop down menus for upscaling.
That would be nice, but at this point I don't think it's realistic. Maybe I should have pretended from the start that NGU would be a scaler which do any scaling factor, just like Cubic or Jinc scalers, and then internally double and scale down with algos of my choice. If I had done that, probably nobody would have ever complained about my choice of downscaling algos. But now that everybody knows NGU is a doubler like NNEDI3 and super-xbr, most users want control over the downscaling algo. <sigh>

NGU low is a definite improvement over the other "dumb" scalers (jinc, bicubic, lanczos). I think it's the go-to scaler for low-demand laptop playback.

Otherwise, if you can run it, I find NGU high (the new high, old medium) is a breakpoint where the image becomes noticeably better.
Good to hear. From my own tests there's a nice quality step between all NGU quality levels. Depending on the exact test image and scaling factor, sometimes the quality step seems larger between Low vs Med or Med vs High or High vs Very High.

I think NGU-Low is great for 720p->1080p upscaling. Switching between NGU-Low and NGU-Very High I see little to no difference with 720p content, except for a very very (did I say very?) small increase in sharpness.

I am now able to run NGU-Low on 720p60 videos, where I couldn't use any NGU levels before with my HD 7770. It's also significantly faster than Jinc+SR2.

There is a bigger difference with SD videos. There is a noticeable quality increase between NGU-Low and NGU-Med, with then smaller increases all the way up to Very High. Surprisingly I am able to use NGU-High on 480p60 videos with render times around 10ms, so it's not much of an issue.

If you are somehow able to make NGU-Low sharper without increasing gpu usage, that would be good though.
Similar impressions to my own.

Not much hope to make NGU-Low sharper (or rather more "focused"), unfortunately. It simply lacks the processing power for that. It's possible I might find some minor quality improvements in the future, but don't expect big jumps, unless there's a new breakthrough in the science at some point in the future.

I wanted to give some feedback on the new settings layout. Personally I do not like it much as I feel its a little confusing. At the same time though I can see the original way was probably not the best either simply because it has elvolved over time. Both ways kind of over complicate the settings. I have a suggestion of a settings layout that may work but at the same time I guess some may not like it and it would be alot of work for madshi given it probably needs the current system demolished and rebuilt...

My idea is under 'scaling algorithms' there should be three sub option windows.

- Movie Original
- Movie Upscaling
- Movie Downscaling

Under each of these settings are dropdown boxes (much like the new doubling options) and other settings that follow the rendering process, from top of page to bottom of page. The user can then choose how chroma / doubling and everything else is handled as it passes through the rendering process.
Not a bad idea, but I see some problems that stop me from seriously considering this approach:

1) Squeezing all the controls for chroma upscaling, image upscaling, doubling and downscaling after doubling into the "Movie Upscaling" settings page would make the page crazy full of controls and it would shy users away.

2) Having chroma upscaling settings in all 3 pages means a lot of redundant controls. Maybe some users would want to use different chroma upscaling settings for the 3 different situations you mentioned, but many users would not. I think many users are happy using just 1 chroma upscaling algo for all situations.

3) The basic concept of your approach can be covered very nicely and easily by using profiles.

Overall I simply don't see this approach as a noticeable improvement over the current approach. Just my own personal opinion, of course. Your approach has some advantages and some disadvantages. So it's simply different, but not better, IMHO.

I think this is probably something that madshi can fix.

EVR-CP has similar issues after sleep/hibernate, which can be solved by turning on this option:
options > playback > output > reinitialize when changing display

Relevant code:
https://github.com/mpc-hc/mpc-hc/blob/develop/src/filters/renderer/VideoRenderers/DX9AllocatorPresenter.cpp (starts at line 1627)
I'm already doing something like this in madVR. Maybe there's a difference in what I'm doing, I'm not sure. I'd have to be able to reproduce the issue to be able to really test and fix that. If it's my fault at all.

Hi madshi, since you are now also working on simplifying the settings GUI, I have some ideas regarding the presets/profiles.

1) Get rid of the profile groups. It is just unnecessarily complex. Just let presets cover the whole group in each section.
Makes sense for profiles in the "scaling algorithms" section. But there are sections which have very different purposes in other sections (e.g. devices). There having different profile groups may be really useful for some users. Generally, profiles are meant to be for expert users, so I prefer to have them as powerful as possible. I've intentionally hidden the whole profiling system in the context menus so that "normal" users don't even see them, so they don't get confused.

2) On the main level in the GUI (e.g. scaling algorithms page) show a list of all presets in that section. Have buttons to remove and duplicate a preset.
3) Always have at least one preset. For example called "default". This one can't be removed. It is used as a fallback.
4) Display all settings pages just once. Have a dropdown box somewhere at the top to select the "current" preset. Simpler GUI and one can quickly compare settings of different presets. Have an entry called "new" at the bottom of the list. When selected, this takes the user to the preset creation page of that section.
Wouldn't all this mean the whole profiling system would be visible for every user, even if it's not activated yet?

Anyway, atm I'm just trying to do the most pressing changes in the settings dialog. I'd much rather like to work on adding new algorithms atm. There might be a whole settings dialog redesign for version 1.0, or maybe for 1.1. Maybe there will be an "expert view" and a "normal view". I haven't got a clue right now. Totally changing the way the profiles work right now is not a good time for me. It would cost a lot of work, and I might have to change it all again for version 1.0.

5) Don't use a profile selection script, but instead give each preset a boolean statement that determines if it should get loaded. This has two benefits. First of all, presets become fully independent, making them easy to share/exchange. So we can start making "Doom9 community approved (TM)" optimized presets in the near future. Secondly, it is much easier to have a large number of presets. Non-programmers are often already struggling with relatively simple profile selection scripts. Given the increasing popularity of 4k and 60fps video, plus the availability of HDR and 3D functionality in madvr, the amount of presents can be significant in case of the true enthusiasts.
6) Add buttons to import/export a preset. Preferably in a (human readable) text-based format (xml/ini) for easy sharing.
7) Add a right-click menu to the boolean statement field of the preset. This is used to quickly insert commonly used variables (srcWidth, deintFps, etc) and could even have submenus for stuff like "(deintFps > 31)".
I like the concept of sharing profiles. Might be something to look into after 1.0 release. I'm not really in love with the idea of using simple "one boolean" switchable presets. E.g. consider the following rule set:

if (deintFps < 31) and (sourceWidth < 1025) and (sourceHeight < 580)
"highQualityAlgos"
else
"lowQualityAlgos"
If you try to achieve the same logic with "1 boolean" presets, you'd need multiple presets instead of just 2 profiles. Which means the user would have to change settings in multiple presets instead of just 2 profiles. That makes things much more complicated, IMHO, instead of easier. I do admit that having to write script rules is difficult for many normal users, but then, the whole profile system was always targetted at nerdy expert users. Maybe in a "non-expert view" after v1.0 or v1.1 I could offer a simplified profiling system which doesn't use any scripting but just offers some predefined profiles like "SD 24fps", "SD 60fps", "HD 24fps", "HD 60fps", and madVR would auto switch between them correctly.

Here is another test with an upscaling to UHD
Bicubic150 was never recommended as an upscaling algo. It's a really really very bad upscaling algo. However, it works great as a downscaling algo. So using an upscaling test which uses Bicubic150 for upscaling doesn't have any meaning for how good or bad Bicubic150 is for downscaling.

NGU low is great in itself. I actually like its lesser sharpness as compared to the higher versions of NGU. I tend to get distracted by the disproportion that NGU high and NGU very high create in the image in terms of definition of the edges and the texture. Even “soften edges” doesn’t help much there. NGU low is better in that regard. The performance is great too.
Good to hear. Can you share a couple of screenshots which show why you like NGU low better than NGU high? Which scaling factor are we talking about?

I'm sorry for bothering everyone with my petty problem, but what could be the cause of madVR not detecting any display device at all?
Ouch, that's weird! Seems that the OS APIs to enumerate monitors simply don't report any! Are any monitors listed in your computer's device management? If so, try deleting them, then let device management search for new devices and they should be re-added. Maybe that helps?

It's a shame that NGU isn't scalable and just doubles, requiring huge resources to downscale back to native resolution.
JFYI, have you tried using "low" quality downscaling?

[madshi]

On one hand we have things like the profile system that lets power users configure everything to their liking.

On the other there is the need to streamline/simplify options for normal users.

Every piece of software in the history of the universe has failed at balancing these two hands. Unfortunately I can see the same thing happening to madVR. :( Power users end up disappointed with the lack of options (compared to the earlier builds) and normal users never have enough knowledge to not be confused with the remaining options. It has all happened zillion times before.
Is there such a thing as a "normal" user in regards to madVR though? No one I know in real life has ever used or has a clue what madVR is.

I'm not sure why the new shift to catering towards "normal" users is for. madVR is only used by super nerdy videophiles. And super nerdy videophiles want to customize everything.
It's not a "new shift". I'm always trying to get rid of settings that are not needed (or only needed by an extremely small number of users) to make things simpler.

The main reason why I have changed the "image doubling" settings is that after the initial release of NGU, almost every user tested NGU with bad settings, resulting in much slower performance results than necessary, even though I explained it all in the NGU announcement post.

This made it pretty clear to me that only very few users really understood the old logic well enough to use it "correctly". So something had to change. It was very clear to me, and also to the expert users.

Not sure I'm crazy about the limited presets for downscaling after image doubling either.
Just another vote in favor of giving advanced users back control of the upscaling / downscaling and chroma settings used with image doubling.
Tend to agree (full disclosure I'm not a software developer nor a UI specialist) ... without knowing madshi's timeline for v1.0 release or what features/functionality comprise that event, I'd be inclined to continue catering to the power users after all they are going to provide the best critique of features and the most difficult to please (as most geeks are ...).
I have tried the newest madVr version and I miss the ability to set the upscaling settings like before.
I would want to choose the upscaling algorithm to be used after image doubling for further upscaling to the target resolution.
Reverting back to v0.91.1, because I can't set the luma to > NGU-med < Lanczos3 AR anymore.
I vote to remove downscaling quality or at least add an option to use the downscaling algorithm.
The downscale pulldown menu in the "image upscaling" section is the only thing I find redundant and should probably be removed.
I was wondering about that too. Noticed that it falls back to simple Cubic interpolation, when the scaling factor drops below a certain threshold. Can this be changed, e.g. to Jinc?
I miss having the option to choose my own settings after doubling.
I still don't like having downscaling under "image upscaling."
I hear you. I'm considering to change some things. Not sure how yet, we'll see if you like the next build better. It'll likely be some sort of compromise.

EDIT: I'm a UX Designer, and I think the changes you've made to the Settings UI are very good and quite well thought out. If you wanted, you could even add an "Easy" mode for beginners, with an Image Enhancement page with only Low, Medium, High, and Very High choices. The defaults are that good (assuming use of NGU).
I like the new interface a lot!
I also like the new GUI way more.
I am in favor of the simplifications of the gui. My account may be new but I have been using madvr since more than a year.
I also would like to say that I really like the new GUI, found it more intuitive than before, and easier to use for noobs or starters. But as usual you need to know what you are doing!
FWIW I'm ok with the new interface config. The "automatic" option is a really nice idea for casual users like me.
This version feels more simple to adjust:cool:
I think the new settings dialogues are quite good and very closely correspond to the settings I would use anyway. They are much more friendly to new users.
Feedback: Overall, a well done improvement cleaning house.
I was sceptical at first but I must say I really like the preset approach.
Glad to hear that, thank you!

[burfadel]

Ah ok! I didn't have problems on my R9-280X, but the RX 480 is very finnicky. Most stable mode is D3D 11 Windowed, as long as the card doesn't power down if paused when the computer is set to turn the monitor off. Despite what others have said, it resumed and played fine with the R9-280X. If I'm doing encoding in the background sometimes even Windows mode freezes, and a hard reset is required. Mind you I am using Avisynthshader with it, but regardless of that I could run two parallel encodes, madVR, shaders such as enhance detail etc, full screen exclusive DX11, all trade quality for performance settings disabled, smooth motion, error diffusion, NGU scaling etc all enabled and no issues. Absolutely can not do that now! Seems like a compatibility issue.

The hard lockup where you have to reset the computer I believe is because madVR locks the process/handle and it cannot close, which keeps the parent process (the player) in the process list and locked. This could mean the screen is stuck on black, which I get in D3D11 Exclusive, or just the inability to launch the media player in full screen windowed mode again. However, it does play with madVR if not full screen.

Since these and other issues are happening to multiple people there's likely a couple of issues somewhere, but seeing as most other people don't have a problem it may not be resolved unfortunately. Maybe it's even trial and error with purchasing different cards until you find one that works (not feasible, both Nvidia and AMD are affected), not use madVR at all, or just put up with it and gradually kill the computer with all the hard resetting :S.

I did activate debug mode to make the log file, but it became really large really quickly and may not help at all. At this point since it's mostly working apart from the odd freeze requiring a hard reset I'm not going to fiddle with making log files etc. I guess I'll just have to put up with it or stop using it :(. Not Madshi's fault, I do suspect it's a compatibility issue relating to Windows 10 and the newer card's API support. Remember Windows 10 TH2, RS1, and soon RS2 all have graphical API changes in relation to additional features etc. It's why DirectX 11 is up to 11.4 in RS2.

[anta777]

Dear madshi!
You write:
"The chroma upscaling algo does currently not make use of the luma channel. I plan to try adding that to a future NGU version, but that will take serious development time, so don't expect it too soon."



What about the term - one week, one month or big time ?

[madshi]

What about the term - one week, one month or big time ?
I can't say for sure. Probably more than a month. There's simply so much still left to do with NGU for luma, and luma has priority.

Atm I'm working on direct NGU quadrupling. First results look nice. It seems that direct quadrupling might beat "doubling twice" in both speed and quality. Speed will probably be slower than I had originally hoped for, but still noticeably faster than doubling twice. It will be at least 1 week until I have some quadrupling NGU version to test, though, maybe longer.

[Telion]

Strange stuff. Is it possible you're running out of GPU RAM, maybe? Does lowering the GPU queue size help?
Nope. And I tried in v0.91.1 the same settings that new presets are giving - everything is OK. In v0.91.3, when I switch back and forth between bicubic and NGU low for chroma on the fly while in NGU doubling mode and on pause, the picture immediately switches between a mess and a correct one accordingly.

[hannes69]

Feedback for NGU watching lores/lowbitrate content:
I´m watching snooker at the moment with Kodi + MPC HC + madVR. I´m watching it with BBC iplayer addon and because I´m living outside UK I´m using a proxy (-> low bandwidth -> low video quality). BBC video material has a good quality already with low bandwidth, but it is blurry of course.
I tested all scaling algorithms, and I have to say: NGU is one of the most noticeable improvements in madVR for me!!!
Of course there were other great improvements like the display switcher, dithering, smoothmotion, debanding, profiles and so on, but in regards of scaling NGU tops everything in my opinion.
Back to my example: the material I watched had 512x288 resolution and a bitrate of 544kbps (I consider this really low quality). I scaled it to my monitor resolution of 1680x1050.
What shall I say? NGU has a new dimension in scaling quality. BTW I can use NGU low up to NGU high with high quality downscaling with my very weak Radeon R7 250, that´s really high bang for the buck...
With low quality scalers the mentioned video material is on the edge being watchable for me; by using NGU it´s absolutely normally watchable without thinking about the bad quality all the time...
NGU beats clearly NNEDI (and of course all other scalers) for me when watching this lowres content.
NGU low is sufficient sharp, NGU medium is on the edge of being too sharp (or there are artifacts or it looks somehow unnatural), NGU high is worse in this regard compared to medium. So I stay with medium at the moment.
I share the opinion that a scaler should produce "the real image" and not add something like sharpening additionally. So NGU low/medium seem to look more natural/unprocessed to me than NGU high.
Of course high quality content is another story (haven´t had the time to test that much).

NGU is an impressive improvement in scaling to me. Because:
I normally go mostly for judderfree playback (-> custom resolution / smoothmotion) and color accuracy (->calibrated monitor and beamer), scaling was for me a thing for microscope nerds ;) using 800% magnifying and watching for single pixels. In normal usage scenarios I often didn´t see differences between several scalers, linear light, debanding, dithering and so on (sometimes I thought I saw something, most of the time it was placebo I think). NGU is a completely other story. I see CLEARLY the difference compared to other scalers, it CLEARLY wins in regards of quality and performance and I didn´t have to use 800% magnified pictures to find out about that.:cool:

Many thanks to madshi for investing his (free-)time for us videophiles :)

[Knight77]

Guys don't get angry OK? I tried to find the answer in the last replies but I'm a bit confused: I updated to the last version and I really cannot find "image doubling" settings anymore. Anywhere. Really nothing not even a drop menu or minimum choice. Is it normal?

Thanks!

[Neo-XP]

Guys don't get angry OK? I tried to find the answer in the last replies but I'm a bit confused: I updated to the last version and I really cannot find "image doubling" settings anymore. Anywhere. Really nothing not even a drop menu or minimum choice. Is it normal?

Thanks!

See here : http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1787798#post1787798

[StinDaWg]

The hard lockup where you have to reset the computer I believe is because madVR locks the process/handle and it cannot close, which keeps the parent process (the player) in the process list and locked. This could mean the screen is stuck on black, which I get in D3D11 Exclusive, or just the inability to launch the media player in full screen windowed mode again. However, it does play with madVR if not full screen.
Do you still get Windows locking to black screen in fullscreen windowed mode too or only exclusive?

I switched to windowed D3D11 a few days ago, and just had the same thing happen right now. :( Had to do a hard reset and reboot.

I did still have empty DontRenderAfterStop folder in madVR folder. I removed that and will see if it keeps happening again.

[fedpul]

Hi guys. I have a challenge for you. You must download them and compare them in fullscreen and try to identify which Option goes with the right settings. After some time I will be posting the results.

This is the link: http://imgur.com/a/zmRYh

Movie Resolution: 720x480
Output Resolution: 1920x1080

In both options I just doubled resolution once and only in Luma, so downscaling algo is not relevant. So this test is basically to see if you are able to see differences after doubling between Jinc AR and Bicubic 60 AR.

One of the options is with 0.91.1. Settings:
Remove Banding: Medium/High
Chroma: NGU High
Luma Doubling: NGU High
Image Upscaling: Jinc AR
Downscaling: Not relevant.
Add grain and Soften Edges at 1

The other is with 0.91.3 version. Settings:
Remove Banding: Medium/High
Chroma: NGU Very High
Luma Doubling: NGU Very High (all auto)
Downscaling: Not relevant.
Add grain and Soften Edges at 1

Results:

Option 1: It is from version 0.91.1 (Jinc AR)
Option 2: It is from version 0.91.3 (Bicubic 60 AR)

3 votes: 2 were right and 1 was wrong.

Because almost no one tried the challenge I will not be uploading another.

I was really hoping that more people get involved. I wanted to test if the ratio comes closer to 50/50 or not. And also it would have been useful to ask how did you compare the pics (for example if you use 1080p output or 4K), being honest I can't tell the difference between the two from normal view distance in a FHD 32" TV.

[ryrynz]

I can't tell the difference between the two from normal view distance in a FHD 32" TV.

Option one has more noticeable noise artifacts than option two.. but that's really about it.
Image analysis by Beyond Compare shows that the changes are so minor that it would be near impossible for anyone to see a difference between them at normal viewing distances.
I'd simply prefer the one with the lower render time (option 2)

[leeperry]

now that everybody knows NGU is a doubler like NNEDI3 and super-xbr, most users want control over the downscaling algo. <sigh>
It's just that we've been playing around with all those settings for a long while now and we all got well polished profiles that make us plenty happy. Also, either you feed a very sharp picture to a soft downscaler or the opposite and settings such as AR and LL downscaling are more a matter of personal taste and display dependent than anything else.

Anyway the what catastrophe has already been quite emotional lately so I'm not keen on giving up on SSIM2D100%LL+50%AB downscaling just yet huh, still rocking 0.91.1 and will be eagerly awaiting the next less crippled build please :)

:thanks:

[ryrynz]

Madshi, I was looking over your anti-ringing (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=145358&page=1) thread because of Sp00kyFox's enquiry about the availability of your anti-ringing algo and noticed Tritical mentioning NNEDI4.

Did you ever evaluate it? I'd be interested in seeing the results of the modified prescreener. I guess it be fairly trivial to add given there's no major changes to NNEDI3. Tritical preferred the results of his newer version.

Never mind, I see he never released it.

[AngelGraves13]

JFYI, have you tried using "low" quality downscaling?

I'm not a fan of bicubic. I like "soft" downscaling, but it seems you're going for a sharp downscaler with aliasing which then requires softening of edges. I guess everyone has their own taste.

Maybe for downscaling from NGU, you can add a "Soft" option which uses Jinc or something similar.

[fedpul]

I'm not a fan of bicubic. I like "soft" downscaling, but it seems you're going for a sharp downscaler with aliasing which then requires softening of edges. I guess everyone has their own taste.

Maybe for downscaling from NGU, you can add a "Soft" option which uses Jinc or something similar.

I do not consider Jinc as a soft downscaler, it is very sharp, almost as sharp as SSIM or Bicubic 150. If you want something soft I will advice you to use Catmull Rom (Bicubic 50) or Softcubic (but be prepared to lose detail!)

[wiFFy]

It's just that we've been playing around with all those settings for a long while now and we all got well polished profiles that make us plenty happy. Also, either you feed a very sharp picture to a soft downscaler or the opposite and settings such AR and LL downscaling are more a matter of personal taste and display dependent than anything else.

Anyway the what catastrophe has already been quite emotional lately so I'm not keen on giving up on SSIM2D100%LL+50%AB downscaling just yet huh, still rocking 0.91.1 and will be eagerly awaiting the next less crippled build please :)

:thanks:This.

All these years with the "Judge it with your own eyes" isn't compatible with what looks like "Don't worry about your eyes, I already did the judging". Sane defaults produce indefinite value to any software, but they can't replace my individual preferences, that I have picked up over the years.

If you wish to tone down the settings, fine. Please just let us keep the advanced version of madVR in some form. I would be fine with hidden advanced settings ala ShowRenderSteps. Without it you could present as simplified UI as you like. With it you would get the current one.

It would require the user to come out and seek knowledge before they could start poking with the settings. I don't think the developer has any more responsibility to protect the user from themselves, if they wish to use some sort of harmful settings.

I would even rather have no UI for these advanced settings and use a plain text config file, than not have these advanced settings at all.

What sort of UI you decide to use in madVR 1.0 is up to you. I trust that you figure it all out by then. I just don't want to wait until madVR 1.0 to get the advanced settings back.

-EDIT: One idea for making madVR more newbie friendly: Tooltips. They are great for giving concentrated information for a new user without blowing up the UI. There is a currently a huge cliff between blindly staring at the settings with no explanation and googling a Madvr-guide. And trying to judge which guide to choose and trust. Or starting to browse a 2000 page thread on doom9 for information with even more opinions to choose from.

-EDIT2:More random thoughts for more newbie friendly madVR: Easy mode (=No learning required) Few presets (~3?) to choose from. Nothing to learn, nothing to ask. Services new users. Completely NGU-based + performance option(s) for when NGU won't do.

Advanced mode (=Current mode) What's new? Well, it's hidden, for starters. You can't stab yourself with a knife you can't find. Trying to make learning madVR easy, instead of taking out the need to learn.
-tooltips. Provides information without ever leaving the madVR UI. Possibly clickable, taking you to madVR Options Explained (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=171787) or equivalent.
-About madVR-tab: Clickable links to officially sanctioned (not necessarily made my madshi)documentation. *madVR Options Explained *madVR guide *madVR bug tracker *this thread *wiki (to be written, by users, to users) *button for activating profiles with a few premade ones (SD/720p/1080p)

[AngelGraves13]

I do not consider Jinc as a soft downscaler, it is very sharp, almost as sharp as SSIM or Bicubic 150. If you want something soft I will advice you to use Catmull Rom (Bicubic 50) or Softcubic (but be prepared to lose detail!)

It's soft because it has no aliasing and minimal ringing. It doesn't need a lot of adjustments. And no, I don't think anyone here would consider Jinc to be sharp.

[omarank]

Good to hear. Can you share a couple of screenshots which show why you like NGU low better than NGU high? Which scaling factor are we talking about?
When comparing screenshots/still images higher levels of NGU definitely look better (in many cases about the same). It is when watching a video I see that weirdness (depending upon the content). Anyway, I have taken screenshots (http://www.mediafire.com/file/w5l2t0zb5j22s6t/screenshots.rar) of a scene which I think may give you an idea, although the difference between NGU low and NGU very high is rather too subtle with the stills. If you see the iron pipes of the gate in the foreground, they look too flat with NGU very high and more natural with NGU low. A Jinc scaled image is also there for reference. The scaling factor in this case is around 3, but I have been testing with scaling factors ranging from 2 to 3.

Results:

Option 1: It is from version 0.91.1 (Jinc AR)
Option 2: It is from version 0.91.3 (Bicubic 60 AR)

3 votes: 2 were right and 1 was wrong.

Because almost no one tried the challenge I will not be uploading another.

I was really hoping that more people get involved. I wanted to test if the ratio comes closer to 50/50 or not. And also it would have been useful to ask how did you compare the pics (for example if you use 1080p output or 4K), being honest I can't tell the difference between the two from normal view distance in a FHD 32" TV.
I can see the difference between the two images on a 50” FHD TV from about 5 feet distance. The important thing is that the two people who took the challenge (including me) replied correctly (the third one just queried about it), clearly indicating that the choice of scaling algorithm to be used after image doubling should be there as the differences can be seen.

[Magik Mark]

Madshi

Experimented with NGU Med in chroma upscaling in 422 video. It took twice the processing power compared to 420. Is this expected? Big jump!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StinDaWg]

Serious question... what type of video content are some of you guys using where you see such a difference between the different chroma algorithms?

I see zero difference between Bicubic 60AR and NGU Very High. I don't even know what I'm supposed to be looking for because the picture doesn't change at all. IMO it's a complete waste of gpu resources and I just use Bicubic 60AR on everything. Pretty sure madshi has said the same thing before. I just don't get it because I don't see any difference (unlike with luma upscaling where the difference is obvious). Is there only a difference when you zoom in 1000%? If so, then it's just placebo and who cares?

[QBhd]

Well on my very old Plasma ("720p" which is 1024x768 rectangular pixels) different chroma algo's produce very noticeable differences in image sharpness and clarity. I like a sharp image and I can clearly see the difference between NNEDI3 32 and NNDEI3 64 in chroma upscaling... The chroma in image doubling is also noticeable, but to a lesser extant. Bicubic 60 in this context is far to soft. I don't know if it is a Plasma thing, or a rectangular pixel thing, but either way, control of chroma algo's is very important to me.

QB

[Backflash]

Serious question... what type of video content are some of you guys using where you see such a difference between the different chroma algorithms?

I see zero difference between Bicubic 60AR and NGU Very High

It's really really subtle, I operate purely in greyscale and it's almost invisible for me for wast majority of sources. So I don't understand the complaining about chroma neither.
What screen do you use? IPS would reflect it better in theory, never tried TN.

Well on my very old Plasma ("720p" which is 1024x768 rectangular pixels) different chroma algo's produce very noticeable differences in image sharpness and clarity. I like a sharp image and I can clearly see the difference between NNEDI3 32 and NNDEI3 64 in chroma upscaling... The chroma in image doubling is also noticeable, but to a lesser extant. Bicubic 60 in this context is far to soft. I don't know if it is a Plasma thing, or a rectangular pixel thing, but either way, control of chroma algo's is very important to me.

QB

It's probably plasma thing, it works with color differently compared to LCD.

[rxracer]

I recently updated both MadVR and Nvidia drivers to v0.91.3 and v376.09 respectively. It's brought about 2 issues. The first is the media player crashes if DX11 is used, and the second is the error - creating Direct3D device failed (80070005).

The 80070005 error only affects a small % of files. All my videos are 1080p mkv (AVC). Initially I thought it might be related to frame rate, but I found some that have the same 25fps frame rate and they work fine. I noticed a while ago that these videos that are now freezing take @7 seconds to render an image and begin playing. I completely reset MadVR, to no avail. I did eventually manage to stop the error by enabling 'Use a separate device for presentation'. I never had to do this before though.

Since it's not a crash I can't send you a bug report. I tried ctrl+alt+shift+pause break as suggested when someone else had the same error in 2012, but nothing happens and I can't see a log. Let me know what you need me to do to help you.

[leeperry]

what type of video content are some of you guys using where you see such a difference between the different chroma algorithms?

Nothing touches Recon-Soft+chroma SR@2 on my 3500:1 AMVA UE32F5000@60Hz with BFI enabled and FRC in mVR from a 80 cm viewing distance, I mostly use 24p Hollywood movies and picture looks much more natural such as faces or landscapes. Last time I checked worst offender to my eyes was NNEDI3 for chroma, picture looked digital and artificial as can be.

[ryrynz]

I can clearly see the difference between NNEDI3 32 and NNDEI3 64 in chroma upscaling...

I would like to challenge you for an A/B compare.

I've done the comparisons myself and the pixel changes are.. basically impossible to notice.

Please send me five samples of your favorite content, whatever you like, I'll upscale a number of shots and we'll put your world class sight and equipment to the test.


It's probably plasma thing, it works with color differently compared to LCD.

As a plasma owner, it's actually harder to differentiate the differences due to the pixel noise.

[StinDaWg]

Well on my very old Plasma ("720p" which is 1024x768 rectangular pixels) different chroma algo's produce very noticeable differences in image sharpness and clarity. I like a sharp image and I can clearly see the difference between NNEDI3 32 and NNDEI3 64 in chroma upscaling... The chroma in image doubling is also noticeable, but to a lesser extant. Bicubic 60 in this context is far to soft. I don't know if it is a Plasma thing, or a rectangular pixel thing, but either way, control of chroma algo's is very important to me.

QB
I have a 60" 1080p plasma. Looking at it with my nose almost up to the screen I don't see any difference between any of them.

I haven't looked at test patterns. This is just regular videos.

[Sunset1982]

I recently updated both MadVR and Nvidia drivers to v0.91.3 and v376.09 respectively. It's brought about 2 issues. The first is the media player crashes if DX11 is used, and the second is the error - creating Direct3D device failed (80070005).

The 80070005 error only affects a small % of files. All my videos are 1080p mkv (AVC). Initially I thought it might be related to frame rate, but I found some that have the same 25fps frame rate and they work fine. I noticed a while ago that these videos that are now freezing take @7 seconds to render an image and begin playing. I completely reset MadVR, to no avail. I did eventually manage to stop the error by enabling 'Use a separate device for presentation'. I never had to do this before though.

Since it's not a crash I can't send you a bug report. I tried ctrl+alt+shift+pause break as suggested when someone else had the same error in 2012, but nothing happens and I can't see a log. Let me know what you need me to do to help you.

Did you set up 3D? There is an old bug with nvidia where madvr crashes when d3d11 is used and 3d is set up in the driver. Just an idea to check out before you investigate it further...

[rxracer]

Did you set up 3D? There is an old bug with nvidia where madvr crashes when d3d11 is used and 3d is set up in the driver. Just an idea to check out before you investigate it further...

No, 3D is always off in MadVR. I don't even install the Nvidia 3D drivers. Can't remember the last time I used 3D. And since the player now crashes with DX11 enabled I've got it disabled. Back to DX9 atm.

It's an odd one. Things are fine so long as 'use a separate device for presentation' is checked. I still get an initial delay of @7 seconds before playback, but that's been the case for a while. It's only with specific rips, so I may not have noticed it for a while if not for these few. I checked my Sonarr history and it's a group and source I don't recall grabbing before. Humans.S02E01.PROPER.1080p.AMZN.WEBRip.DD2.0.x264-KiNGS.

Since I've found a workaround this is mostly for Madshis' benefit if it's of consequence to him. I am curious to know the reason though. It's a shame MadVR doesn't crash so I can just send a report. I sent one a long time ago and he was really helpful. He seems to properly care about MadVR. I respect that.

[madshi]

Nope. And I tried in v0.91.1 the same settings that new presets are giving - everything is OK. In v0.91.3, when I switch back and forth between bicubic and NGU low for chroma on the fly while in NGU doubling mode and on pause, the picture immediately switches between a mess and a correct one accordingly.
That's really weird, especially because you seem to be the only one affected by this problem. Have you tried a different GPU driver version?

Feedback for NGU watching lores/lowbitrate content:
I´m watching snooker at the moment with Kodi + MPC HC + madVR. I´m watching it with BBC iplayer addon and because I´m living outside UK I´m using a proxy (-> low bandwidth -> low video quality). BBC video material has a good quality already with low bandwidth, but it is blurry of course.
I tested all scaling algorithms, and I have to say: NGU is one of the most noticeable improvements in madVR for me!!!
Of course there were other great improvements like the display switcher, dithering, smoothmotion, debanding, profiles and so on, but in regards of scaling NGU tops everything in my opinion.
Back to my example: the material I watched had 512x288 resolution and a bitrate of 544kbps (I consider this really low quality). I scaled it to my monitor resolution of 1680x1050.
What shall I say? NGU has a new dimension in scaling quality. BTW I can use NGU low up to NGU high with high quality downscaling with my very weak Radeon R7 250, that´s really high bang for the buck...
With low quality scalers the mentioned video material is on the edge being watchable for me; by using NGU it´s absolutely normally watchable without thinking about the bad quality all the time...
NGU beats clearly NNEDI (and of course all other scalers) for me when watching this lowres content.
NGU low is sufficient sharp, NGU medium is on the edge of being too sharp (or there are artifacts or it looks somehow unnatural), NGU high is worse in this regard compared to medium. So I stay with medium at the moment.
I share the opinion that a scaler should produce "the real image" and not add something like sharpening additionally. So NGU low/medium seem to look more natural/unprocessed to me than NGU high.
Of course high quality content is another story (haven´t had the time to test that much).

NGU is an impressive improvement in scaling to me. Because:
I normally go mostly for judderfree playback (-> custom resolution / smoothmotion) and color accuracy (->calibrated monitor and beamer), scaling was for me a thing for microscope nerds ;) using 800% magnifying and watching for single pixels. In normal usage scenarios I often didn´t see differences between several scalers, linear light, debanding, dithering and so on (sometimes I thought I saw something, most of the time it was placebo I think). NGU is a completely other story. I see CLEARLY the difference compared to other scalers, it CLEARLY wins in regards of quality and performance and I didn´t have to use 800% magnified pictures to find out about that.:cool:
That sounds pretty great!! I've put a LOT of work into NGU, so I'm happy to hear it pays off. JFMI: Could you maybe show a snooker screenshot comparing NGU vs whatever you were using before?

Generally, NGU handles soft images fine. However, blocking artifacts and especially mosquito noise throws it off.

noticed Tritical mentioning NNEDI4.

Did you ever evaluate it? [...]

Never mind, I see he never released it.
Yep, he never released it. From the few images I had seen I didn't feel it was a noticeable improvement. He felt it was better, though.

When comparing screenshots/still images higher levels of NGU definitely look better (in many cases about the same). It is when watching a video I see that weirdness (depending upon the content). Anyway, I have taken screenshots (http://www.mediafire.com/file/w5l2t0zb5j22s6t/screenshots.rar) of a scene which I think may give you an idea, although the difference between NGU low and NGU very high is rather too subtle with the stills. If you see the iron pipes of the gate in the foreground, they look too flat with NGU very high and more natural with NGU low. A Jinc scaled image is also there for reference. The scaling factor in this case is around 3, but I have been testing with scaling factors ranging from 2 to 3.
Thanks. Hmmm... I'm not sure I can see what you mean about the pipes. They do look "different" somehow, but it's hard to say for me which is better.

Experimented with NGU Med in chroma upscaling in 422 video. It took twice the processing power compared to 420. Is this expected? Big jump!
422 is twice the pixels compared to 420, so that's expected. NGU cannot upscale in only one direction (X or Y) like NNEDI3 can. NGU always upscales both X and Y by design. So with 422 content NGU actually has to upscale X and Y to 200% and then downscale one dimension again. So it's a lot of extra work compared to 420.

Serious question... what type of video content are some of you guys using where you see such a difference between the different chroma algorithms?
It's only really visible in specific scenes. Look for scenes with lots of sharp red stuff, preferably on top of a dark/black background.

I recently updated both MadVR and Nvidia drivers to v0.91.3 and v376.09 respectively. It's brought about 2 issues. The first is the media player crashes if DX11 is used, and the second is the error - creating Direct3D device failed (80070005).
Probably caused by the driver upgrade. Maybe you can downgrade the driver?

[madshi]

madVR v0.91.4 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* redesigned "image upscaling" settings page once more
* super-xbr image doubling is available again
* fixed: downscaling anti-ringing checkbox was sometimes disabled
I hope you guys will like the new "image upscaling" settings page. I've compromised a little, gave you back some more control, but tried to keep it easy to understand for normal users.

I've dropped the option to let you choose with which exact scaling factor doubling gets activated. madVR now makes that decision itself. For NGU, doubling is activated as soon as any upscaling is needed, because NGU has some nice properties (e.g. removes ringing) which can be beneficial even when upscaling only by a very small factor. NNEDI3 and super-xbr are only activated if the scaling factor is 1.2x or higher. Of course you can use profiles to force any doubler to activate or deactivate in specific situations. If you've selected any of the doublers and they don't get activated, madVR now falls back to JincAR upscaling.

[QBhd]

I like the new layout, I just did a quick peak so I haven't really had a chance to use it yet, however first impressions are really good

QB

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I wonder, when does the "<-- upscaling" option for NGU apply?

As far as I understand, NGU doubling is now always enabled when upscaling is needed (even for small factors). So, when upscaling is needed, we always get NGU doubling, possibly (usually) followed by "<-- downscaling".

But in what case is NGU "<-- upscaling" used? :confused:

[Backflash]

It's much easier to understand.

On somewhat related topic, here is what I don't understand.

http://imgur.com/a/15xut

In fullscreen it goes ngu -high->ngu -med
does it quadruple there with ngu?
In window it's ngu-high-> lancsoz3ar
it doubles and then upscales with lanczos?

And how does 200% super sampling work? it simply doubles everything irrelevant to resolution?

[TheElix]

Ouch, that's weird! Seems that the OS APIs to enumerate monitors simply don't report any! Are any monitors listed in your computer's device management? If so, try deleting them, then let device management search for new devices and they should be re-added. Maybe that helps?I can't believe I didn't realize to look in the Device Manager. For some reason all the display devices were Disabled. Once I enabled them madVR detected them without problem. Thanks, Madshi!

[Neo-XP]

madVR v0.91.4 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* redesigned "image upscaling" settings page once more
* super-xbr image doubling is available again
* fixed: downscaling anti-ringing checkbox was sometimes disabled
I hope you guys will like the new "image upscaling" settings page. I've compromised a little, gave you back some more control, but tried to keep it easy to understand for normal users.

I've dropped the option to let you choose with which exact scaling factor doubling gets activated. madVR now makes that decision itself. For NGU, doubling is activated as soon as any upscaling is needed, because NGU has some nice properties (e.g. removes ringing) which can be beneficial even when upscaling only by a very small factor. NNEDI3 and super-xbr are only activated if the scaling factor is 1.2x or higher. Of course you can use profiles to force any doubler to activate or deactivate in specific situations. If you've selected any of the doublers and they don't get activated, madVR now falls back to JincAR upscaling.

Is there a way to avoid the use of 2 image doublers when upscaling 720p to UHD ? Rendering times are too high for my configuration.
I just need to use NGU once, and then Lanczos3 AR does the rest of the upscaling.

Here you can see v0.91.1 vs v0.91.4 :

https://s16.postimg.org/vouw2rikh/mad_VR0911.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/vouw2rikh/) https://s16.postimg.org/ylhx31oe9/mad_VR0914.jpg (https://postimg.org/image/ylhx31oe9/)

[ispano]

v0.91.4 feedback

Liking the new changes madshi. I think many can appreciate the choice for their own personal downscale preference. Thx for listening to the thread's feedback. It may not satisfy every use case, but at least you're finding a middle ground for the time being in your approach to simplify the preference menu.

[madshi]

Thx for feedback everyone, appreciated.

I wonder, when does the "<-- upscaling" option for NGU apply?

As far as I understand, NGU doubling is now always enabled (when upscaling is needed), so we always get NGU doubling followed by "<-- downscaling".
Doubling is always enabled, but quadrupling is not. So if you upscale more than 200%, the "<-- upscaling" algo might be used, if quadrupling isn't active.

In fullscreen it goes ngu -high->ngu -med
does it quadruple there with ngu?
In window it's ngu-high-> lancsoz3ar
it doubles and then upscales with lanczos?
Yes, in fullscreen it quadruples. The upscaling factor in that situation is so large that madVR considers it large enough to make quadrupling useful. In windowed mode the upscaling factor is smaller, so madVR believes quadrupling isn't useful.

And how does 200% super sampling work? it simply doubles everything irrelevant to resolution?
Yes, it activates doubling even if no upscaling is needed (e.g. 1080p video playback on 1080p display). This may be beneficial if you want to make use of NGU's deringing effect, or if you want to do sharpening in a higher resolution.

Is there a way to avoid the use of 2 image doublers when upscaling 720p to UHD ? Rendering times are too high for my configuration.
I just need to use NGU once, and then Lanczos3 AR does the rest of the upscaling.
Oh well. For super-xbr and NNEDI3 you can choose to activate or deactivate quadrupling. For NGU you currently can't choose. The reason for that is that I'm hoping to have direct NGU 4x quadruplers soon (instead of doubling twice). The direct 4x quadruplers are (hopefully) going to be a better bang for the buck compared to doubling twice.

I'm not sure if it's worth it adding seperate options now to enable/disable quadrupling if the new direct quadruplers are coming soon and change the whole NGU logic again, anyway.

[Thunderbolt8]

would it be possible to add a keyboard shortcut that opens the madvr settings tab at once in mpc-hc when playing a video? then youd dont have to right click --> filters --> madvr --> edit settings each time.

[leeperry]

Sweet thanks, looks like e-drama is over ^^

Could you please make the NGU+SR warning pop-up a one-timer? It's bad I know, no need to tell me everytime I click on OK :(

Oh, and there used to be an option to only double for 1.2x and above, this was a nice feature IMO...or maybe you could go NGU Low for <1.2 or so?

[nevcairiel]

Oh well. For super-xbr and NNEDI3 you can choose to activate or deactivate quadrupling. For NGU you currently can't choose. The reason for that is that I'm hoping to have direct NGU 4x quadruplers soon (instead of doubling twice). The direct 4x quadruplers are (hopefully) going to be a better bang for the buck compared to doubling twice.


The ultimate question here is however how the performance/quality is in the end.

- Would NGU quadruple be faster then NGU+upscale?
- How does the quality compare, can a lower NGU when quadrupling match performance to double+upscale, at still better quality?

[leeperry]

Oh and chroma NGU "normal" doesn't actually do anything advanced IIRC? Might be nice to make it clear, it's Bicubic60AR doubling or so? So basically it's not possible to disable chroma doubling anymore as it was before? This was handy so we could beef up luma doubling.

[Backflash]

would it be possible to add a keyboard shortcut that opens the madvr settings tab at once in mpc-hc when playing a video? then youd dont have to right click --> filters --> madvr --> edit settings each time.

don't you have it on tray?
just right click tray icon->edit madvr settings