madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[pie1394]

With madVR 0.27 , the FS and Window mode switching works a lot faster than it under 0.26. It is especially very obvious on my machine under WinXP x64 + 7300GT.

With 0.26, I got random Win7 frozen with some video clips under pausing. They are not easily to be duplicated. Hope such issue will never happen to 0.27 again.

For one particular AVI file encoded with MPEG4 (704x544 25fps) + AC-3 (448Kbps 4ch), if it is played with MPC-HC + Xvid 1.2 decoder + ACM decoder + madVR 0.26/0.27 at 1400x1050 60Hz monitor, the video is frozen and displayed around 10 seconds later. If the video rednerer is changed to VMR9 , it works fine. Very weird...

Maybe it is due to different muxing method, which makes madVR AV sync mechanism does not quickly response?

Here is the media info. It is related to Violin Concerto , Mutter, Karajan , 1990 ...

Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
File size : 954 MiB
Duration : 50mn 23s
Overall bit rate : 2 646 Kbps
Writing application : VirtualDubMod 1.5.4.1 (build 2178/release)
Writing library : VirtualDubMod build 2178/release

Video
ID : 0
Format : MPEG-4 Visual
Format profile : Simple@L3
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, QPel : No
Format settings, GMC : No warppoints
Format settings, Matrix : Custom
Codec ID : XVID
Codec ID/Hint : XviD
Duration : 50mn 23s
Bit rate : 2 191 Kbps
Width : 704 pixels
Height : 544 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.294
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.229
Stream size : 790 MiB (83%)
Writing library : XviD 0.0.09 (UTC 2003-03-25)

Audio
ID : 1
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Format_Settings_ModeExtension : CM (complete main)
Codec ID : 2000
Duration : 50mn 22s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 4 channels
Channel positions : Front: L R, Side: L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Stream size : 161 MiB (17%)
Alignment : Split accross interleaves
Interleave, duration : 80 ms (2.00 video frames)
Interleave, preload duration : 500 ms

[mark0077]

Madshi I have a few debug Logs I can send on if useful showing some periods of frame drops at the start of movies. This evening I watched Hannibal and at the end of the movie I had just 1 delayed frame but 179 frame drops most of which were noticeable. The log was almost 2gb though so I'll just send on the smaller ones.

[Thunderbolt8]

maybe you got so many dropped frames because your computer was busy creating that 2gb log :>

[mark0077]

:) maybe. But 2 gig file in 2 hours when. My hdd can write 2g in 17 seconds doesn't really add up to "busy". I doubt that causes such a slowdown in hdd reads to cause frame drops. The log is being written to c drive anyways and movie was on f drive. CPU usage is in low 2-3 percent even on max hdd reads.

[techer]

Hmmmm... Just to be sure that we're talking about the same thing: Can you describe how that screen tearing looks like exactly?

Mostly in the middle of the video...but it just was jittering or tearing constantly, but when I disable exclusive mode it went away. The problem may be because I am using a beta version of MPC-HC http://www.xvidvideo.ru/media-player-classic-home-cinema-x86-x64/

:eek:
Another problem:
Whenever I go to the MadVR properties to change a setting (i.e. Exclusive mode), the properties window is so long that I can't even hit the apply/ok button, even when I minimize my taskbar @ 1024 X 768. I have to temporarily raise the monitor resolution just so I can see the apply/ok button.

Just to be sure, does the full-screen exclusive mode only enable better playback performance?
Or, does it improve image quality also:confused:

thanks, madshi:)

[ajp_anton]

Bugs/problems:

1. One of the following, depending on what your intentions were:
a) When seekbar is enabled, but automatic exclusive mode is disabled, the seekbar is still enabled in "normal" fullscreen.
b) The seekbar box is grayed out and can't be altered when auto-ex-mode is disabled.

2. You remember the shifted chroma plane issues with non-mod16 videos way back? I'm having those again when exiting exclusive mode.

3. Exiting exclusive mode is slow. Video will go black and pause for a second.

4. If you go from exclusive mode to windowed and then close the player, the screen will go black for a split second exactly when the player disappears from task manager.

Win 7 x64
HD4850
MPC-HC
madVR 0.27

[Rekka]

Hi madshi excellent renderer, but is it possible to get exclusive mode to work on a secondary display?

I'm using mpc auto change, when i go full screen my second display stays blank while exclusive plays on my primary display. But when I put my mouse cursor on the second display it shows the video but says in window mode then goes blank after a couple seconds. I also can't get the madvr seekbar to show up.

My spec: Ati 5850, windows 7 64-bit, ffdshow, coreavc.

Thanks!

[Hypernova]

Hi madshi excellent renderer, but is it possible to get exclusive mode to work on a secondary display?

I'm using mpc auto change, when i go full screen my second display stays blank while exclusive plays on my primary display. But when I put my mouse cursor on the second display it shows the video but says in window mode then goes blank after a couple seconds. I also can't get the madvr seekbar to show up.

My spec: Ati 5850, windows 7 64-bit, ffdshow, coreavc.

Thanks!

You have to make sure the player is on the 2nd display before open the file. I have similar setup and madVR works great.

[Rekka]

You have to make sure the player is on the 2nd display before open the file. I have similar setup and madVR works great.

Wow it works! Thanks alot!

[Mark_A_W]

madshi

With Windows set to 1920x1080 progressive at 60hz, then tweaked to 72hz progressive using Powerstrip, exclusive works fine.


It is the interlaced res that does it.

The stock Windows 1080i (29hz = what most would refer to as "1080i 60hz"), no Powerstrip, doesn't work either.


Thanks

Mark

madshi, one more bit of information that may (or may not) be useful.

With interlaced res's and powerstrip, you cannot use powerstrip to do the initial swap from a progressive res to an interlaced res.

You must set the PC/graphics driver to "interlaced mode" by setting either the Windows graphics settings OR ATi CCC to a stock interlaced res first.

After that is set, you can then tweak it in Powerstrip.


If I try and set an interlaced res directly in Powerstrip, you get this weird effect where you only see the top half of the screen.


I'm not sure it will affect what you are doing, it's just a quirk.

[ryrynz]

I think I remember you earlier wrote that you saw a surprisingly big resolution listed somewhere, bigger than the movie resolution. Is it possible that you setup DirectVobSub in such a way that it scales up the images somehow, to improve subtitle quality? 0.12 did not allow other filters to change the resolution during playback. That might explain why 0.12 was not affected...



This is exactly right, DirectVobSub was set to upscale always and this was the cause of the problem. Changed it and it's now working well, cheers.

[madshi]

You do have the seekbar enabled in the madVR options, don't you?
Yes, it is otherwise working quite wonderfully on my 5870 even with 3dluts.
I'm not sure. Does your "Yes" answer my question? Do you have the seekbar enabled in the madVR options?

With Windows set to 1920x1080 progressive at 60hz, then tweaked to 72hz progressive using Powerstrip, exclusive works fine.

It is the interlaced res that does it.
Ok. I think in a future madVR version I will be able to make exclusive mode work with interlaced in Vista and Windows 7. Not sure about XP.

After uninstalling MPC, madVR, ffdshow and reinstalling them all, I can get it to work with a reasonable load on my GPU.
Glad to hear that!

With madVR 0.27 , the FS and Window mode switching works a lot faster than it under 0.26.
Really? Not sure why that is the case, but I won't complain, of course.

For one particular AVI file encoded with MPEG4 (704x544 25fps) + AC-3 (448Kbps 4ch), if it is played with MPC-HC + Xvid 1.2 decoder + ACM decoder + madVR 0.26/0.27 at 1400x1050 60Hz monitor, the video is frozen and displayed around 10 seconds later. If the video rednerer is changed to VMR9 , it works fine. Very weird...
Can you shorten that AVI file to a small sample, with which the problem can still be reproduced? If so, you can upload that and I'll have a look.

Madshi I have a few debug Logs I can send on if useful showing some periods of frame drops at the start of movies.
At the *start* of movies? How do you define "start"? First 3 seconds? Or a longer time frame? Is this with v0.26 or does it still occur with v0.27? FWIW, I was hoping that the new frame drop/delay logic in v0.27 would help madVR getting smooth quicker at the start of a movie, compared to v0.26.

This evening I watched Hannibal and at the end of the movie I had just 1 delayed frame but 179 frame drops most of which were noticeable.
Remind me, which is your hardware/software setup? Is v0.27 behaving better, worse or about equal compared to v0.26 for you? Is there any difference between windowed and exclusive mode for you? Do you also have those frame drops in exclusive mode?

Mostly in the middle of the video...but it just was jittering or tearing constantly, but when I disable exclusive mode it went away. The problem may be because I am using a beta version of MPC-HC
Most of us are using MPC HC beta builds. That should not be the cause of the problem. As I said before, I think there's something wrong with your software installation. There's no way that fullscreen exclusive mode can tear with properly installed drivers and applications. I'd suggest reinstalling graphics drivers, media player and filters.

Just to be sure, does the full-screen exclusive mode only enable better playback performance?
Or, does it improve image quality also:confused:
The image in exclusive mode is not sharper or more colorful, if you mean that.

One of the following, depending on what your intentions were:
a) When seekbar is enabled, but automatic exclusive mode is disabled, the seekbar is still enabled in "normal" fullscreen.
b) The seekbar box is grayed out and can't be altered when auto-ex-mode is disabled.
Ah yes, you're right.

2. You remember the shifted chroma plane issues with non-mod16 videos way back? I'm having those again when exiting exclusive mode.
Only when exiting exlusive mode? That's very weird. I can't reproduce it here. Can you upload a sample once again? Which codec (h264, MPEG2, VC-1 etc) are we talking about? And which decoder are you using?

3. Exiting exclusive mode is slow. Video will go black and pause for a second.
There's nothing I can do about that.

4. If you go from exclusive mode to windowed and then close the player, the screen will go black for a split second exactly when the player disappears from task manager.
That's the way it is and I can't do anything about that, either. Or does this effect not occur when exiting the media player, after having used EVR fullscreen exclusive mode?

[madshi]

This is exactly right, DirectVobSub was set to upscale always and this was the cause of the problem. Changed it and it's now working well, cheers.
Hah! :)

[namaiki]

Does "normal" make video jumpy after a seek with v0.27, too? Or is that just what you remember from v0.26? I plan to get rid of High and Aero in the next build and only offer Normal. But if you say that Aero works *much* better for you, I may have to change my mind.

It's still all versions past 0.17, from what I have tested.
The thing is, sometimes the video is jumpy, but sometimes it looks perfect. Using High and Aero timings seems to lessen the effect when it occurs, but it is still there.

[ajp_anton]

2. You remember the shifted chroma plane issues with non-mod16 videos way back? I'm having those again when exiting exclusive mode.Only when exiting exlusive mode? That's very weird. I can't reproduce it here. Can you upload a sample once again? Which codec (h264, MPEG2, VC-1 etc) are we talking about? And which decoder are you using?
Yes, only after exiting exclusive mode, and it will get stuck there until I restart the player.
http://www.multiupload.com/75QNFST5AN
Using MPC-HC's internal stuff for everything, no external splitters/decoders.

[namaiki]

I can't reproduce it either. Which build of MPC-HC are you using?

[madshi]

It's still all versions past 0.17, from what I have tested.
The thing is, sometimes the video is jumpy, but sometimes it looks perfect. Using High and Aero timings seems to lessen the effect when it occurs, but it is still there.
Ah, that's with 24fps on 60Hz content, right? Will improve that later, but it doesn't have high priority right now.

Yes, only after exiting exclusive mode, and it will get stuck there until I restart the player.
http://www.multiupload.com/75QNFST5AN
Using MPC-HC's internal stuff for everything, no external splitters/decoders.
I can't reproduce it. Tried on both my XPSP3 dev PC and on my win7 x64 HTPC. Can you please check pin connection info before and after the exclusive switch? Does the pin connection info change? Also a log might be helpful...

[namaiki]

Ah, that's with 24fps on 60Hz content, right? Will improve that later, but it doesn't have high priority right now.

Yeah, it's still the same 24fps@60Hz thing. Sorry about that.

[Gser]

I'm not sure. Does your "Yes" answer my question? Do you have the seekbar enabled in the madVR options?

Yes. :D

[bulaboy]

Hi there

I might have missed the obvious while trawling through the 200 odd pages but could anyone point me to info on how to install madvr from scratch (using say...MPC-HC as the player)? i.e. Do I JUST need MPC-HC and MadVR. Or do I need more?

I have the following setup:
- a ASUS N71 laptop (which has a Core I7-720 M CPU and 1 GB ATI 5730)
- I connect this with a HDMI v1.3c cable to a 50inch plasma (a Panasonic Viera NeoPDP S20, model no TX-P50S20B)
- I have Catayst 10.6 installed on Windows 7 (64bit)
- I had installed CCCP (Combined Community Codec Pack) and then installed MadVR. I then simply went into MPC-HC and changed output to MadVR
- my TV allows me to choose 23hz as a refresh rate so I've chosen that (which i think means 23.976)
- I've also read in the forums that its best to change the pixel format so I've changed from the default of "YCbCr 4:4:4" to "RGB 4:4:4: Pixel Format PC Standard (Full RGB)"

I mainly watch 720p/1080p x264 movies on the TV. Only thing is i'm not sure if the above way is the ideal way to using MadVR? With the above setup the playback is still not smooth so I fear I might not be installing things in the most efficient manner or simply have it configured incorrectly. :confused:

Appreciate any help....this thread btw is a great read! Oh and madshi, its impossible to go back to anything else now that I've seen madvr....thanks so much for your efforts thus far!

[namaiki]

To make it simple, make sure that you only have one monitor enabled at a time. Also, what you have installed is fine. Just make sure that you are using the MPC-HC that CCCP installs (32-bit).

23.976Hz refresh rate is good if your videos are also 23.976fps. For smoothness, you can try use ReClock, but do not necessarily make this your first option.

[pankov]

bulaboy,
do have in mind that PowerStrip won't work with 5xxx ATI cards so don't bother trying it.
Also it's possible that RGB 4:4:4 Pixel Format (Full RGB) is broken on your ATI like it's on most 5xxx cards. Look for my previous posts on the topic and check if you are actually getting real Full RGB - you should get different picture on your TV when using Limited RGB. If you don't see any difference you're unlucky like most of us 57xx users :(
If you have a DVI output on your laptop you can try using it with a DVI-HDMI cable/convertor - this way you'll get real Full RGB ... but you might loose sound :( sorry

[bulaboy]

Thanks for the prompt reply namaiki! Yes, I do ensure I output only to the TV...my laptop screen is off. The videos i watch are 23.976fps (when I press Ctrl-J the info that comes up does confirm that also). And i agree, i don't want to use reclock unless i really have to. Just wish I knew how to make motion/playback butter smooth....

[madshi]

Yes. :D
Ok, will think about how to find out what's going wrong...

i.e. Do I JUST need MPC-HC and MadVR. Or do I need more?
Depends a bit. Personally, I'm using madFlac for FLAC decoding, CoreAVC for h264 decoding, the MS VC-1 decoder for VC-1 decoding, the DScaler IVTC mod for MPEG2 decoding, the Haali splitter for MKV splitting and the internal MPC-HC splitter for TS/m2ts splitting. These are the filters that work best for me, personally. If you have motion smoothness problems, they can be the fault of madVR, or of "bad" madVR settings, or it's also possible that some other filters on your PC are not working as they should. It could also be a fault of Aero, if you're not going into fullscreen exclusive mode.

For a start, I'd suggest that you post a small screenshot of the madVR OSD when watching a movie, so we can see the rendering times, whether the queues are full etc. If you have fun to play around a bit, try setting all madVR flush settings to "don't flush" or to "flush & wait (loop)" to see if either one of them makes things better for you. Also try a different Luma rescaling algorithm. The default is rather demanding, although your GPU should be up to the task, I think.

Do you use exclusive mode? Meaning: Do you maximize the MPC HC window so that no MPC HC GUI is visible, anymore, and does madVR then show an "exclusive" message for a short time?

[bulaboy]

Thanks pankov. Will try to switch between Full RGB and Limited RGB and see if theres any diff. If it is broken then should I leave the pixel format to the default of "YCbCr 4:4:4" or just leave it on Full RGB anyway?

[Thunderbolt8]

Personally, I'm using CoreAVC for h264 decoding, the MS VC-1 decoder for VC-1 decoding, the DScaler IVTC mod for MPEG2 decodingwhats the reason for not using ffdshow in all these cases (ffmpeg-mt for h264, wmv9 for VC-1 and libavcodec for mpeg2)? just performance?

[madshi]

whats the reason for not using ffdshow in all these cases (ffmpeg-mt for h264, wmv9 for VC-1 and libavcodec for mpeg2)? just performance?
CoreAVC: Performs well and without problems. So I see no reason to switch to ffmpeg-mt. A long time ago I tried the ffmpeg decoders and had graphical corruption with some broadcasts. Probably these problems have been fixed in the meanwhile, but I never had such trouble with CoreAVC. Also CoreAVC with deinterlacing set to "weave" produces perfect progressive results for the 1080i50 broadcasts here in Germany. Don't know if ffmpeg-mt can do that, too. Maybe yes.

MS VC-1: Last time I checked, it performed a lot better than the ffmpeg decoder. Also it's from MS (the VC-1 inventor), so it's expected to produce no corruption in any case. Also it's free. So why use anything else?

DScaler IVTC mod: Very reliable IVTC (60i -> 24p) for all NTSC/ATSC broadcasts and DVDs. No other MPEG2 decoder can do that.

[ajp_anton]

I can't reproduce it. Tried on both my XPSP3 dev PC and on my win7 x64 HTPC. Can you please check pin connection info before and after the exclusive switch? Does the pin connection info change? Also a log might be helpful...How to use the debug build?

Pin info changes (5 bolded lines are different):
Before exclusive mode:
Filter : madVR - CLSID : {E1A8B82A-32CE-4B0D-BE0D-AA68C772E423}

- Connected to:

CLSID: {008BAC12-FBAF-497B-9670-BC6F6FBAE2C4}
Filter: MPC Video Decoder
Pin: Output

- Connection media type:

Video: YV12 720x568 (1424:781) 25.00fps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Video {73646976-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12 {32315659-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_VideoInfo2 {F72A76A0-EB0A-11D0-ACE4-0000C0CC16BA}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 613440
cbFormat: 112

VIDEOINFOHEADER:
rcSource: (0,0)-(712,568)
rcTarget: (0,0)-(712,568)
dwBitRate: 0
dwBitErrorRate: 0
AvgTimePerFrame: 400000

VIDEOINFOHEADER2:
dwInterlaceFlags: 0x00000081
dwCopyProtectFlags: 0x00000000
dwPictAspectRatioX: 1424
dwPictAspectRatioY: 781
dwControlFlags: 0x00000000
dwReserved2: 0x00000000

BITMAPINFOHEADER:
biSize: 40
biWidth: 720
biHeight: 568
biPlanes: 1
biBitCount: 12
biCompression: YV12
biSizeImage: 613440
biXPelsPerMeter: 0
biYPelsPerMeter: 0
biClrUsed: 0
biClrImportant: 0

pbFormat:
0000: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 c8 02 00 00 38 02 00 00 ........È...8...
0010: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 c8 02 00 00 38 02 00 00 ........È...8...
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 80 1a 06 00 00 00 00 00 ........€.......
0030: 81 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 90 05 00 00 0d 03 00 00 �.......�.......
0040: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 28 00 00 00 d0 02 00 00 ........(...Ð...
0050: 38 02 00 00 01 00 0c 00 59 56 31 32 40 5c 09 00 8.......YV12@\..
0060: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
After exclusive mode:
Filter : madVR - CLSID : {E1A8B82A-32CE-4B0D-BE0D-AA68C772E423}

- Connected to:

CLSID: {008BAC12-FBAF-497B-9670-BC6F6FBAE2C4}
Filter: MPC Video Decoder
Pin: Output

- Connection media type:

Video: YV12 720x576 (1424:781) 25.00fps

AM_MEDIA_TYPE:
majortype: MEDIATYPE_Video {73646976-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
subtype: MEDIASUBTYPE_YV12 {32315659-0000-0010-8000-00AA00389B71}
formattype: FORMAT_VideoInfo2 {F72A76A0-EB0A-11D0-ACE4-0000C0CC16BA}
bFixedSizeSamples: 1
bTemporalCompression: 0
lSampleSize: 622080
cbFormat: 112

VIDEOINFOHEADER:
rcSource: (0,0)-(712,568)
rcTarget: (0,0)-(712,568)
dwBitRate: 0
dwBitErrorRate: 0
AvgTimePerFrame: 400000

VIDEOINFOHEADER2:
dwInterlaceFlags: 0x00000081
dwCopyProtectFlags: 0x00000000
dwPictAspectRatioX: 1424
dwPictAspectRatioY: 781
dwControlFlags: 0x00000000
dwReserved2: 0x00000000

BITMAPINFOHEADER:
biSize: 40
biWidth: 720
biHeight: 576
biPlanes: 1
biBitCount: 12
biCompression: YV12
biSizeImage: 622080
biXPelsPerMeter: 0
biYPelsPerMeter: 0
biClrUsed: 0
biClrImportant: 0

pbFormat:
0000: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 c8 02 00 00 38 02 00 00 ........È...8...
0010: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 c8 02 00 00 38 02 00 00 ........È...8...
0020: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 80 1a 06 00 00 00 00 00 ........€.......
0030: 81 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 90 05 00 00 0d 03 00 00 �.......�.......
0040: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 28 00 00 00 d0 02 00 00 ........(...Ð...
0050: 40 02 00 00 01 00 0c 00 59 56 31 32 00 7e 09 00 @.......YV12.~..
0060: 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................

[mark0077]

At the *start* of movies? How do you define "start"? First 3 seconds? Or a longer time frame? Is this with v0.26 or does it still occur with v0.27? FWIW, I was hoping that the new frame drop/delay logic in v0.27 would help madVR getting smooth quicker at the start of a movie, compared to v0.26.


Remind me, which is your hardware/software setup? Is v0.27 behaving better, worse or about equal compared to v0.26 for you? Is there any difference between windowed and exclusive mode for you? Do you also have those frame drops in exclusive mode?


Hi Madshi. By start, I have sent you two logs that were approx 10/15 seconds into a video clip, when 0 frame drops were occuring... and all of a sudden maybe 20 or 30 frames got dropped.. This is with 0.27. This happened twice and I gathered logs, one in exclusive, one in non exclusive. This is with 0.27.

Hardware is Core i7 920 @ 3.7ghz, GTX 295, Windows 7 64bit, mpc-hc 32bit, reclock with its vysync stuff off. I can't compare to 0.26 as I didn't do so much testing / reporting. Freezes and frame drops are so random its hard to compare. And I get drops in exclusive and non exclusive. Its not a major problem but like others I am a perfectionist so when I see...10.... 50..... 100 frame drops per movie I report it as I do here. Definitely a bad sign when the gf says... "oh no its gone jumpy again"... im like .... :devil: haha Let me know if I can perform any tests. I love seeing the improvement of this renderer, its going really great places.

PS: Another slight error that only effects the red display stats output. When playing back a 30fps telicine content that is correctly converted to 24fps by the decoder... madVR still says 30fps (says source filter)... not a biggie but worth noting.

[madshi]

@ajp_anton, I have a hard time believing the switching out of exclusive mode can make a difference. Maybe by chance you happened to drop out of exclusive mode at the same time when the media type changed? Or does the media type change really occur directly when going out of exclusive mode? The thing is: The splitter and decoder do not even know when madVR enters or leaves the exclusive mode! Not even MPC HC knows that! So how could that possibly affect the media type!? Makes no sense to me...

@mark0077, you haven't answered all my questions yet.

[mark0077]

All should be answered.... now... If any more let me know.

[madshi]

All should be answered.... now...
Do I really have to spell it out another time? You know, if I ask a question, then I have a good reason for that. I asked:

> Is v0.27 behaving better, worse or about
> equal compared to v0.26 for you?

I changed the frame drop/delay logic in v0.27, so I need to know whether those big number of frame drops you got are new to v0.27 or whether you had similar behaviour in v0.26. If they're new to v0.27 then obviously the new frame drop/delay logic isn't working well for you. If you had the same problems with v0.26 then the new frame drop logic is not at fault. That's crucial for me to know.

See, I just wasted several minutes of my free time because you didn't properly answer all my questions. I asked you via PM to answer my questions in the forum. Then I'm now asking you in the forum for the 2nd time. That makes 3 times I had to ask you to answer all my questions... :(

[mark0077]

Attitude!! Well if you read my reply you'll see that i said that frame drops are so random......... oh I'm not going to type it all out again... read if you like... not going to repeat myself now

Heres the post........... The least you can do when people put time into trying to help is to be patient......... Now you wasted both your own and my time. Puts people off trying to help tbh.
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1427215&postcount=4238

[Luv]

Madshi,you just made me remind of something about 1080i/25fp/avc with coreavc set to weave and 0.27:
I noticed many delayed frames (And much less dropped frames) when I watch this kind of material.Is it because my display refresh rate is @85Hz ? All I can see is that the three queues keep oscillating between 6 and 7-8 instead of being at 7-8 constantly.
This question comes late but what's the distinction between "Delayed" and "Dropped" and what are the consequences when there are a lot of delayed frames ?
:thanks:

[madshi]

Attitude!! Well if you read my reply you'll see that i said that frame drops are so random......... oh I'm not going to type it all out again... read if you like... not going to repeat myself now

Heres the post........... The least you can do when people put time into trying to help is to be patient......... Now you wasted both your own and my time. Puts people off trying to help tbh.
Pfffffff... I'm sorry. You're right, I should be thankful that you are so kind to let me spend thousands of hours of my free time to develop a free software for you.

You are dangerously close to getting on my ignore list.

[mark0077]

Everyone appreciates the work you put in madshi, hence the fact I get up in the middle of movies to collect debug logs etc.... we are all trying our best here... a bit of patience goes a long way. Keep up the good work no hard feelings.

[madshi]

you just made me remind of something about 1080i/25fp/avc with coreavc set to weave and 0.27:
I noticed many delayed frames (And much less dropped frames) when I watch this kind of material.Is it because my display refresh rate is @85Hz ? All I can see is that the three queues keep oscillating between 6 and 7-8 instead of being at 7-8 constantly.
This question comes late but what's the distinction between "Delayed" and "Dropped" and what are the consequences when there are a lot of delayed frames ?
:thanks:
Delayed frames happen when due to unexpected PC "unresponsiveness" madVR is not able to present a frame at the vsync it was originally planned for. The frame is then displayed one or multiple vsyncs later. A dropped frame is a frame which is not displayed *at all*. This should all get better when the final exclusive mode rendering path is implemented (it isn't yet).

[madshi]

Everyone appreciates the work you put in madshi, hence the fact I get up in the middle of movies to collect debug logs etc.... we are all trying our best here... a bit of patience goes a long way. Keep up the good work no hard feelings.
My patience ends when I have to ask the same thing over and over again without getting a proper answer. That makes me feel that you don't respect the value of my time.

It doesn't help, btw, that when you finally do answer my question, that you "hide" the answer in an edited older post without clearly saying so... ;)

Ok, so you can't compare to v0.26. How about older versions? Is your impression that frame drops got worse with v0.27? Or can't you say at all?

[Luv]

Okidoki ! I just tried with default resizers (I'm only using Spline64 right now) and the delayed/dropped frames don't occur so often.Wait and see.By the way,wich version of Haali's media splitter are you using for your tests ?

[ajp_anton]

@ajp_anton, I have a hard time believing the switching out of exclusive mode can make a difference. Maybe by chance you happened to drop out of exclusive mode at the same time when the media type changed? Or does the media type change really occur directly when going out of exclusive mode? The thing is: The splitter and decoder do not even know when madVR enters or leaves the exclusive mode! Not even MPC HC knows that! So how could that possibly affect the media type!? Makes no sense to me...
The video doesn't even have to be playing. I can pause and double-click alt+Enter and the chroma plane will shift instantly when getting back to windowed mode.

The change from 712x568 to 712x576 happens in the MPC Video Decoder output (not input) pin also, so I tried ffdshow and there it works fine.
If EVR exclusive mode = enabling "D3D fullscreen", there are no problems there with MPC decoder.

[mark0077]

My patience ends when I have to ask the same thing over and over again without getting a proper answer. That makes me feel that you don't respect the value of my time.

It doesn't help, btw, that when you finally do answer my question, that you "hide" the answer in an edited older post without clearly saying so... ;)

Ok, so you can't compare to v0.26. How about older versions? Is your impression that frame drops got worse with v0.27? Or can't you say at all?

And my post was edited "Last edited by mark0077; Today at 19:03". and your reply "Today, 19:12"??????

So... maybe you don't value / read the edited responses I or other people point you to...? (or maybe you didn't read my updates before you posted about having to spell it out for me... rude tbh....) My point still stands in any case whether you read the edited replies or not, if people give useless or no information you can choose ignore it... maximum of 30 seconds to read a post and decide its not of any use.... you don't have to abuse their replies or treat them like children "Do I really have to spell it out another time?" ffs. (rule 4 be nice) no matter if you feel their posts are not useful.... You have the choice just to leave it.. or the choice to aggravate their attempts to help. Very simple just to ignore their reports if they arn't what you require.... Lack of courtesy in replies like that just annoy me I just can't let it go sorry... Anyways... on with testing :)

Anyways. I'll run a test tonight. I'll play a 1 hour clip with 0.26 and 0.27 in exclusive first... Frame drops are so random, its not like theres a clear winner for me with 0.26 and 0.27 yet. After my tests I'll post the number of frame drops and delayed frames. Anything else required, 0.25 also? Logs useful in this case? If not I'll disable debug for the tests on my nvidia card. I'm willing to provide anything you ask for... and I'll try to improve my responses first time :)

[Hypernova]

madshi, is there any reason why 0.27 might have following issue compare to 0.26?

1) Start the video, but just a black screen show up on MPC-HC. The player freezed, but the sound continue playing. Have to kill the player.
2) BSOD when going in/out of exclusive mode. Mostly when going out.

Both issues are random. I still can't say when will they happen. I didn't change ffdshow, but I did update MPC-HC regularly, so it is possible that it's MPC-HC's fault. Still, it looks more like madVR's problem to me since all these start showing up after I update to 0.27. I will try using 0.26 a few times to see if the problems stay.

[madshi]

By the way,wich version of Haali's media splitter are you using for your tests ?
Don't think that makes any difference in terms of dropped/delayed frames.

The video doesn't even have to be playing. I can pause and double-click alt+Enter and the chroma plane will shift instantly when getting back to windowed mode.

The change from 712x568 to 712x576 happens in the MPC Video Decoder output (not input) pin also, so I tried ffdshow and there it works fine.
That's extremely weird. And what is worse is that I simply cannot reproduce it, on none of my PCs.

And my post was edited "Last edited by mark0077; Today at 19:03". and your reply "Today, 19:12"??????

So... maybe you don't value / read the edited responses I or other people point you to...?
FWIW, the first time you pointed me to your edited comment was 19:16, which was after my 19:12 reply. I don't usually look back if older posts were edited (do you!?), unless somebody clearly says so.

Anyways. I'll run a test tonight. I'll play a 1 hour clip with 0.26 and 0.27 in exclusive first... Frame drops are so random, its not like theres a clear winner for me with 0.26 and 0.27 yet. After my tests I'll post the number of frame drops and delayed frames. Anything else required, 0.25 also? Logs useful in this case? If not I'll disable debug for the tests on my nvidia card. I'm willing to provide anything you ask for... and I'll try to improve my responses first time :)
Thanks. Comparison to v0.26 would be best, no other tests needed. No logs needed, either, I have your v0.27 logs. Just a subjective impression of whether v0.27 is worse or better or equal than v0.26, if it's possible to say at all.

madshi, is there any reason why 0.27 might have following issue compare to 0.26?
You never know, but I don't see any specific reason for why you should have those new problems. I guess you'll be seeing them with 0.26, too.

[SantinoSan]

I'm running across an unusual error when I play back using madVR. I thought I had it fixed, but I guess not. I movie will play normally for a short period both in windowed mode or exclusive mode, but will start to play very jerky after an unknown period. I have been watching my GPU usage and this is the strangest part...when in windowed, it hovers around 50% when it plays nicely, but when it does not the GPU usage goes down to 0%...this is both watching the catalyst control Center and GPU-Z.

I had it working yesterday with any movie I could throw at it, but today, I can't get it to be consistent.

Madshi,
I am sending you a log file for Minority Report Blu-ray and Coraline.

I think I may have narrowed the problem. For some reason, madVR does not like the output of MPC decoder. When I switched back to ffdshow or coreavc it works fine. I didn't even realize I had ffdshow unselected as the decoder.

Thanks,
Santino

[madshi]

I'm running across an unusual error when I play back using madVR. I thought I had it fixed, but I guess not. I movie will play normally for a short period both in windowed mode or exclusive mode, but will start to play very jerky after an unknown period. I have been watching my GPU usage and this is the strangest part...when in windowed, it hovers around 50% when it plays nicely, but when it does not the GPU usage goes down to 0%...this is both watching the catalyst control Center and GPU-Z.

I had it working yesterday with any movie I could throw at it, but today, I can't get it to be consistent.
Probably some kind of power saving feature (called "PowerPlay" by ATI, I think). Try disabling that if you can find it in the ATI control panel. Also check the GPU clocks. Do they go down when it's getting jerky? Try fixing the clocks at a specific value. These power saving "features" have been reported to be responsible for playback problems before...

[Tom Keller]

I have a strange behaviour with 0.27 under WinXP SP2: when starting a video (HD, SD, XviD, H.264... doesn't matter what kind of video) on the second monitor (which is actually my tv, running with 50Hz, connected with the s-video output of my 9600GT), it plays terribly jerky. It looks like it's running with 3fps and 90% of the outputted frames are skipped. But that's not the strange thing - the real strange thing is: when starting the same video on the first monitor (normal vga monitor, running with 100Hz), it plays smooth. I tried different settings... but no change.

It all started with 0.27. There aren't any problems like this with 0.26. Any ideas?

[B.F.]

See my very first reply in this post.
OK. Here is the log.


Not really. Does that mean that exclusive mode now works for you with v0.27?
That mean, if I enable 10bit buffer in madVR options go to fullscreen without that error.


There already is an option to disable it.

It sub-option for exclusive mode.
Seek-bar now enabled by default even if exclusive mode is disabled.
And this seek bar is not working. It shows, but if I try to seek, it do nothing.

[pankov]

B.F.
please, put your log file on mediafire, because attachments in the forum are approved very slowly and madshi can't download and help quickly.

[Guest]

attachments in the forum are approved very slowly We approve attachments several times a day. Is that really "very slowly"?

[madshi]

I think I may have narrowed the problem. For some reason, madVR does not like the output of MPC decoder. When I switched back to ffdshow or coreavc it works fine. I didn't even realize I had ffdshow unselected as the decoder.
Interesting. FWIW, the MPC HC internal decoders seem to generally be more buggy compared to ffdshow. At least that has been the past experience when using them with madVR.

I have a strange behaviour with 0.27 under WinXP SP2: when starting a video (HD, SD, XviD, H.264... doesn't matter what kind of video) on the second monitor (which is actually my tv, running with 50Hz, connected with the s-video output of my 9600GT), it plays terribly jerky. It looks like it's running with 3fps and 90% of the outputted frames are skipped. But that's not the strange thing - the real strange thing is: when starting the same video on the first monitor (normal vga monitor, running with 100Hz), it plays smooth. I tried different settings... but no change.

It all started with 0.27. There aren't any problems like this with 0.26. Any ideas?
When playing back on secondary, are you loading the video file while the media player is still on the primary monitor? Or are you loading the video file after you've moved the media player to the secondary monitor?

Can I have 2 logs, please? One from your primary monitor and one from your secondary monitor?

That mean, if I enable 10bit buffer in madVR options go to fullscreen without that error.
Aaah! Now I understand. My first guess would be that your video RAM is too small, so that it only works with 10bit, but not with 16bit textures...

Seek-bar now enabled by default even if exclusive mode is disabled.
That will be fixed in the next build.

We approve attachments several times a day. Is that really "very slowly"?
No, it seems that attachments are approved quicker recently. I do remember that in the past it sometimes took several days. Or maybe it was just my impression. Of course different time zones may play a role, too.