madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Warner306]

Madshi will have a new release out soon with some big improvements to HDR tone-mapping.

The level of nerdiness with the tone mapping is becoming impressive. Even though most projector owners can't see past 100 nits, they are now analyzing real-time graphs of brightness histograms and preparing weighted averages of HDR content based on the measurement files produced by LAV Filters and madVR.

There are professional TV and Blu-ray reviews out there who would love to have this information. I have seen mistakes made in reviews where a reviewer has erroneously assumed one display is not any brighter than the other while comparing content that doesn't reach past the peak brightness of either display. This data also makes it possible to cherry-pick scenes as demo material. The only downside will be the number of frustrated people who want to understand how to use it all.

I like the picture produced by HDR -> SDR, but I can't help but notice the lack of visible steps when you lower the target nits and brightness excessively. But what can you do...but buy a brighter display or a laser projector. HDR still has a long ways to go to live up to the promises made by Dolby. It should have happened a long time ago because grading content to 100 nits doesn't make much sense for almost all current displays.

[ryrynz]

The level of nerdiness with the tone mapping is becoming impressive.

Hopefully it raises the bar enough that display manufacturers take note and improve their own tone-mapping.

Maybe he has an evil lair with a bunch of super computers/GPUs to do this type of training?


He implied to me that he used NNEDI3 as groundwork for NGU AA as a result of it having the same picture offset as NNEDI3 does. It possible he got in touch with the elusive NNEDI3 author Tritical :)

[Warner306]

I’ve referenced a link that says NGU Sharp was trained with downscaled photos. Anti-Alias is, as you said, different.

[nevcairiel]

With that said, I don't think NGU Sharp was trained well with poor material. I have seen some content look like an oil painting that kind of made me drunk while watching it.

If it was truely trained on taking high-res originals and downscales of those, then that is entirely expected. If you do such a training, the filter doesn't learn to "upscale", it learns to un-do the downscale - which in theory sounds similar, but in practice can end up quite different.

Low-quality content does not qualify for that particular type, since even if it was downscaled once, those attributes were destroyed by over-compression, noise, or whatever makes it "low quality".

Thats really the hard part with training (outside the computational requirements). You need to be careful how you train it, or you might bias the algorithm. If you only train on pristine downscales of high-quality high-res images, then thats what it'll be good at, and only that.
But of course where do you get a set of medium to low quality images and high-quality upscales of those to train an algorithm? Someone would have to upscale those in the first place. :) Or you downscale images, and then artifically degrade them, but unless you do that very carefully, the algorithm might once again just learn to un-do your degredation, and not in a very generic sense.

[madjock]

The level of nerdiness with the tone mapping is becoming impressive.

It is, but from someone that does not really want to check all their files before watching, I hope it gets dumbed down a lot to a user level.

This sounds selfish I guess, but from an HDR to SDR point from a non 4K owner, I am unsure what all these extra settings achieves.

I guess it may be a case of using a certain rev and being happy with that.

[yok833]

Hi guys,
With an LG OLED 2017, should I set 700 for the target peak nits or should I stick with 400?
I use the last test build with the measurement tool and the result is already amazing!! :)

[kostik]

Hi guys,
With an LG OLED 2017, should I set 700 for the target peak nits or should I stick with 400?
I use the last test build with the measurement tool and the result is already amazing!! :)

I have the same question but for LG OLED C8:

OLED C8:

HDR Real Scene Peak Brightness : 683 cd/m²
HDR Peak 2% Window: 944 cd/m²
HDR Peak 10% Window: 907 cd/m²
HDR Peak 25% Window: 517 cd/m²
HDR Peak 50% Window: 330 cd/m²
HDR Peak 100% Window: 161 cd/m²

HDR Sustained 2% Window : 895 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 10% Window: 872 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 25% Window: 498 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 50% Window: 317 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 100% Window: 155 cd/m²

HDR ABL : 0.106

OLED C7:

HDR Real Scene Peak Brightness : 718 cd/m²
HDR Peak 2% Window: 717 cd/m²
HDR Peak 10% Window: 733 cd/m²
HDR Peak 25% Window: 447 cd/m²
HDR Peak 50% Window: 313 cd/m²
HDR Peak 100% Window: 143 cd/m²

HDR Sustained 2% Window : 695 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 10% Window: 703 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 25% Window: 429 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 50% Window: 291 cd/m²
HDR Sustained 100% Window: 137 cd/m²

[madjock]

Reference what to set the NITs too, for the last two posts.

It seems to be subjective to what film you are watching and what you like yourselves brightness wise. From what I have read the brighter you make it, the more chance you have of losing details.

I think it will be another madVR to personal taste to a point.

[el Filou]

With that said, I don't think NGU Sharp was trained well with poor material. I have seen some content look like an oil painting that kind of made me drunk while watching it.Low-quality content does not qualify for that particular type, since even if it was downscaled once, those attributes were destroyed by over-compression, noise, or whatever makes it "low quality".IMHO for an equal display size, lower definition content needs higher bits/pixel for quality to ,stay the same, but very often it doesn't.
Even YouTube, which (at least with VP9) uses higher bits/pixel at definitions lower than 1080, can't compensate for that (OTOH, their downscaling is horrible... :rolleyes:).It is, but from someone that does not really want to check all their files before watching, I hope it gets dumbed down a lot to a user level.Well, you're not forced to measure all your HDR videos before watching, you can still use the dynamic on-the-fly version while setting a brightness reaction time that suits you. :)This sounds selfish I guess, but from an HDR to SDR point from a non 4K owner, I am unsure what all these extra settings achieves.Whether your display is 4K or not doesn't matter, it's useful even on 1080.
It avoids big/sudden brightness variations while at the same time still using the dynamic range of your display in an optimal way.
Think about it like the video version of what measuring your tracks to add ReplayGain metadata does for music instead of using an on-the-fly loudness equalizer/limiter.

[SamuriHL]

When a new version is actually released it won't have all the options that the test builds have. Those options are there in the test builds to allow different things to be tested and a value found that everyone who is testing can live with. That value then becomes baked in. As for the measurement files they can be generated by watching a film so that the next time you watch it it'll use the data to improve the quality. The idea isn't to make a whole bunch of options that people need to mess with. But figuring all that it is exactly why they're doing a lot of testing up front between each new build.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Warner306]

If it was truely trained on taking high-res originals and downscales of those, then that is entirely expected. If you do such a training, the filter doesn't learn to "upscale", it learns to un-do the downscale - which in theory sounds similar, but in practice can end up quite different.

Low-quality content does not qualify for that particular type, since even if it was downscaled once, those attributes were destroyed by over-compression, noise, or whatever makes it "low quality".

Thats really the hard part with training (outside the computational requirements). You need to be careful how you train it, or you might bias the algorithm. If you only train on pristine downscales of high-quality high-res images, then thats what it'll be good at, and only that.
But of course where do you get a set of medium to low quality images and high-quality upscales of those to train an algorithm? Someone would have to upscale those in the first place. :) Or you downscale images, and then artifically degrade them, but unless you do that very carefully, the algorithm might once again just learn to un-do your degredation, and not in a very generic sense.

Yeah, I don't know how the training could be done for poor content with consistent results. It is difficult to carefully degrade a source and repair it. I'm not if it's worth it when you can just choose something like NGU Anti-Alias that handles poor sources fairly well. But I've seen some odd results with NGU Sharp on some material.

[Warner306]

Hi guys,
With an LG OLED 2017, should I set 700 for the target peak nits or should I stick with 400?
I use the last test build with the measurement tool and the result is already amazing!! :)

You should be losing brightness at 400 nits if the display is actually 700 nits.

[Warner306]

Reference what to set the NITs too, for the last two posts.

It seems to be subjective to what film you are watching and what you like yourselves brightness wise. From what I have read the brighter you make it, the more chance you have of losing details.

I think it will be another madVR to personal taste to a point.

The higher the target, the less chance of losing detail because less compression is involved.

[huhn]

NGU sharp is well known to under perform on bad sources.
and that's where RCA comes into play which helps NGU sharp tremendously.

[SirSwede]

NGU sharp is well known to under perform on bad sources.
and that's where RCA comes into play which helps NGU sharp tremendously.

What is best for "bad sources" then?

Would a GTX 1050 Ti be able to handle NGU and RCA?

:thanks:

[mytbyte]

I have the same question but for LG OLED C8:



I'd go for 2% peak nits as your peak nits in madVR, it ought to be particularly impactful in dark scenes with small bright single lights or space scenes, in overall brighter scenes the pupil would contract to compensate so the impact of those peak highlights would get lost anyway even if they were presented in original peak brightness...

[cork_OS]

Would a GTX 1050 Ti be able to handle NGU and RCA?
RCA is free for NGU Sharp. It's called NGU fusion.

[SirSwede]

RCA is free for NGU Sharp. It's called NGU fusion.

NGU Sharp would be too sharp for me, as I am using Sharpen Complex 2 in MPC-HC.

Would the GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB GDDR5 be able to handle something like: NGU AA, RCA and SC2 for upscaling 720p to 4K? :confused:

[Asmodian]

No, NGU AA + RCA is quite hard.

[mclingo]

@MADSHI - to come back to an issue AMD users have, over blown colours for SDR material. I've made some further progress on this with help from another user with the same problem SPENCERFORD.
I've now managed to reproduce this using MPC-BE so it does look like its either driver or DIRECT3D related. However I’ve now found that this only happens with 8 bit 1080p material which is upscaled to 2160p and outputted in 10bit using DIRECT3D, If I play an SDR movie which is native 2160p its fine so it seems to be the upscaling part which is confusing something in the driver / output chain. All 2160p HDR material is also unaffected.
So to reproduce this you need:
• Play a 1080p 8 bit SDR movie
• Have 10 bit or higher enabled on graphsics card and in MADVR
• Set Movie player or MADVR to upscale to 2160p.
• Ensure DIRECT3D 11 is enabled in MADVR or other movie player
• HDR cable TV/MONITOR/PROJECTOR * unsure about this one.

I have logged a ticket to AMD with this new information but I logged one before and nothing came of it, do you have a contact at AMD you could mention this to maybe?.
Now I have this locked down can some other AMD users see if they can reproduce this, for some reason it’s a lot noticeable on the Phantom menace about 32 minutes in, see screen shot.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AgvFafeelEBigP8JoUs9wKjRu8Ajjw

[brazen1]

For your SDR problem, have you tried BT.2020, DCI-P3, and BT.709 options to see if that oversaturated red gets controlled? I use a profile for BT.2020 and another for BT.709 for calibration. Also 8bit or auto instead of 10bit for SDR 8bit? I use an 8bit and a 10bit profile for properties.

[huhn]

that's the core problem you are not supposed to need that.

[HillieSan]

For your SDR problem, have you tried BT.2020, DCI-P3, and BT.709 options to see if that oversaturated red gets controlled? I use a profile for BT.2020 and another for BT.709 for calibration. Also 8bit or auto instead of 10bit for SDR 8bit? I use an 8bit and a 10bit profile for properties.

You are right. I am using PCI-P3 and no problems with my AMD RX card.

[NoTechi]

What gamma are you using for HDR content? I tested so far a 3D LUT DCI-P3 with power gamma 2.2-2.4 with nice results. Now I tried a 3D LUT with madvr set to output in HDR format and ST2048 and JVC also on ST2048 and Guardians of the Galaxy looked fantastic. But when I looked at Iron Man 1 it was not watchable with it. Might be caused by just recalculating the 3D LUt instead of creating a new one with the JVC on ST2048 and HDR profile.

I was thinking I should go for:
1. A 3DLUT for 709 content with a gamma 2.2 or a bit higher using JVC 2020 profile since the calibration was made in DCI-P3
2. A 3DLUT for DCI-P3/BT2020 with gamma ST2048 using JVC HDR profile (which it would switch to automattically on my 7900)

Does this makes sense? :)

NoTechi

[mclingo]

For your SDR problem, have you tried BT.2020, DCI-P3, and BT.709 options to see if that oversaturated red gets controlled? I use a profile for BT.2020 and another for BT.709 for calibration. Also 8bit or auto instead of 10bit for SDR 8bit? I use an 8bit and a 10bit profile for properties.


Hi mate, luckily yes that does work, ive been using it as a workaround for a good while now. I use BT2020 as BT709 still gives quite a red image.

Like Huhn says though this shouldht be required which is the core problem, many thanks for your input though.

:)

[mclingo]

You are right. I am using PCI-P3 and no problems with my AMD RX card.


Hi, I find by calibrating for BT2020 resolves the issue completely for me and I dont need separate profiles for any other material, no other material seems affected by this for me which in itself is odd suggesting whatever is happening is happening towards the end of the processing chain maybe.

its quite a bizzare problem but I guess its nice to know i'm not the only one who has it and not an issue with my own setup.

[el Filou]

If I play an SDR movie which is native 2160p its fine so it seems to be the upscaling part which is confusing something in the driver / output chain. All 2160p HDR material is also unaffected.What is the native colour space of SDR 2160p movies? BT.709 or DCI-P3/BT.2020?that's the core problem you are not supposed to need that.Why not? Wouldn't UHDTV displays that conform to Rec.2020 expect the content to be in BT.2020 when the definition is 2160p SDR (Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2020#System_colorimetry), just like HD displays expected BT.709 when being fed > 576p? Maybe the Radeon is enforcing the standard really hard? (Edit: i.e. indicating BT.2020 in the HDMI metadata when it's outputting 2160p even though madVR is sending BT.709?)
Just like 8-bit HDR or even 8-bit UHD, maybe BT.709 UHD is technically accepted by some displays but not following the standard and therefore not tested/considered by manufacturers?

[nevcairiel]

What is the native colour space of SDR 2160p movies? BT.709 or DCI-P3/BT.2020?

Both exist and are valid. You'll probably find more BT.709 content still though. If you have a BT.2020/DCI-P3 capable screen with a decent color volume, I would probably calibrate for DCI-P3 (or even BT.2020) and let madVR change all content to that.

[mclingo]

What is the native colour space of SDR 2160p movies? BT.709 or DCI-P3/BT.2020?Why not? Wouldn't UHDTV displays that conform to Rec.2020 expect the content to be in BT.2020 when the definition is 2160p SDR (Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2020#System_colorimetry), just like HD displays expected BT.709 when being fed > 576p? Maybe the Radeon is enforcing the standard really hard? (Edit: i.e. indicating BT.2020 in the HDMI metadata when it's outputting 2160p even though madVR is sending BT.709?)
Just like 8-bit HDR or even 8-bit UHD, maybe BT.709 UHD is technically accepted by some displays but not following the standard and therefore not tested/considered by manufacturers?


Hi,if this were the case you'd see this with NVIDA cards too though surely, I have no issues with my 1050 card, i've even tried two different HDR capable TVs

[mytbyte]

Hi,if this were the case you'd see this with NVIDA cards too though surely, I have no issues with my 1050 card, i've even tried two different HDR capable TVs

Hmmm....the other day, when I connected my very old comp with ATI HD6570 to plasma, it reported xv.color color signal which is kind of like old wide gamut "standard" and I don't know how this happens, I never activated it if I can recall correctly...I haven't looked closer into this, and can't tell if I get wider gamut and more saturated colors because i didn't have time to look into how to deactivate this...I could connect it to my UHD over the weekend, but perhaps this could be a clue for you -> perhaps BT.2020 is signalled to TV without you knowing about it (like a sort of AMD-specific user friendliness)and TV switches to it's wide gamut mode (probably native colorspace)

[huhn]

Why not? Wouldn't UHDTV displays that conform to Rec.2020 expect the content to be in BT.2020 when the definition is 2160p SDR (Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._2020#System_colorimetry), just like HD displays expected BT.709 when being fed > 576p? Maybe the Radeon is enforcing the standard really hard? (Edit: i.e. indicating BT.2020 in the HDMI metadata when it's outputting 2160p even though madVR is sending BT.709?)
Just like 8-bit HDR or even 8-bit UHD, maybe BT.709 UHD is technically accepted by some displays but not following the standard and therefore not tested/considered by manufacturers?

UHD TV that get an SDT UHD image usually stay in bt 709 mode and they should you don't know it it is rescaled or what ever.

for an HDR signal it should assume bt 2020 or even better the connection should say bt 2020 and this API is broken for AMD.

if amd is changing the HDMI color information based on bit deep and resolution alone than they are as dumb as they could be.
GPU are mostly created for gaming and there is at least 1 game that can be rendered in 10 bit SDR and nearly every d3d11 game could do the same way before HDR or bt2020 was a thing so they are SDR and most important windows doesn't change its color space based on bit deep and resolution so if in doubt use the same as windows.

NGU Sharp would be too sharp for me, as I am using Sharpen Complex 2 in MPC-HC.

Would the GTX 1050 Ti, 4GB GDDR5 be able to handle something like: NGU AA, RCA and SC2 for upscaling 720p to 4K? :confused:
than don't use sharpen complex.

[mclingo]

Hmmm....the other day, when I connected my very old comp with ATI HD6570 to plasma, it reported xv.color color signal which is kind of like old wide gamut "standard" and I don't know how this happens, I never activated it if I can recall correctly...I haven't looked closer into this, and can't tell if I get wider gamut and more saturated colors because i didn't have time to look into how to deactivate this...I could connect it to my UHD over the weekend, but perhaps this could be a clue for you -> perhaps BT.2020 is signalled to TV without you knowing about it (like a sort of AMD-specific user friendliness)and TV switches to it's wide gamut mode (probably native colorspace)

yes that is definitely a possibility, no ides how we'd track this down though,it would still be circumstantial, we really need MADSHIs input there but I think he's busy right now.

One other thing fixes this that I mentioned a while back but I didnt really look into my settings to hard to this might be a false positive, if I put my TV in PC mode this fixes it, could be something to do with that as well, perhaps the TV knows its a PC as is adjuting accordingly but as I have it in Bluray mode is showing the wrong colour space / saturation. There could be a difference between how a PC outputs 10 bit and how a bluray player does.

its all very complicated, :( just glad i have a workaround for now :)

[mclingo]

(1) - sorry if this is a stupid question, (2) sorry if i've asked this before but why is there no profile group allowed for rendering, if this was possible it could solve a few issues, being able to turn DIRECT3D11 off for SDR material would be useful, perhaps being able to turn off FSE per media type might also be useful?

[huhn]

but you can do that with profiles.

[mclingo]

oh feck so you can, sorry.

:)

[mclingo]

would it be true to say that the DIRECT3D11 option is only required for HDR 10bit playback and doesnt need to be on for any 8 bit SDR playback at all then?

[huhn]

nvidia can do HDR without it so yeah you only really need it for amd HDR.

[Warner306]

What gamma are you using for HDR content? I tested so far a 3D LUT DCI-P3 with power gamma 2.2-2.4 with nice results. Now I tried a 3D LUT with madvr set to output in HDR format and ST2048 and JVC also on ST2048 and Guardians of the Galaxy looked fantastic. But when I looked at Iron Man 1 it was not watchable with it. Might be caused by just recalculating the 3D LUt instead of creating a new one with the JVC on ST2048 and HDR profile.

I was thinking I should go for:
1. A 3DLUT for 709 content with a gamma 2.2 or a bit higher using JVC 2020 profile since the calibration was made in DCI-P3
2. A 3DLUT for DCI-P3/BT2020 with gamma ST2048 using JVC HDR profile (which it would switch to automattically on my 7900)

Does this makes sense? :)

NoTechi

1. A 3D LUT for BT.709 content is still considered the reference.
2. A 3D LUT is used to tone map in PQ using the projector's HDR mode. You would lose HDR -> SDR pixel shader, which I know you like. The 3D LUT could do a fine job, but it is a fixed curve for all videos and not dynamic like pixel shader. A 3D LUT for HDR content is not yet the reference, so choose the option with the best image quality. You could also try multiple 3D LUTs for different video peaks.

[ashlar42]

I created some instructions for those who are using current test builds wanting to try madMeasureHDR. Those at AVSForums are already well-versed on the current methods.

Instructions: Using madMeasureHDR to create dynamic HDR10 metadata (https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=223175&pid=2750406#pid2750406)

This is the only place this information is published and I'll update it as the tool changes.Sorry if this question is stupid but...

These measurements are used to do something similar to what Dolby Vision/HDR10+ do with regular HDR10 material? So madVR can make full use of a panel highlights capabilities on a scene by scene basis?

[Warner306]

It reduces the compression applied by the tone mapping curve when possible by setting the curve for each scene. If you measure a file before playing it, it is possible to pick out scenes and the measurement tool will flag the brightness of the scene. Then the tone curve is set for each scene in the video. This has the most impact slightly above the set target nits.

Tone mapping goes under the PQ curve, which makes the image darker, and dynamic tone mapping attempts to dynamically reduce compression when possible.

[ashlar42]

It reduces the compression applied by the tone mapping curve when possible by setting the curve for each scene. If you measure a file before playing it, it is possible to pick out scenes and the measurement tool will flag the brightness of the scene. Then the tone curve is set for each scene in the video. This has the most impact slightly above the set target nits.

Tone mapping goes under the PQ curve, which makes the image darker, and dynamic tone mapping attempts to dynamically reduce compression when possible.Ok. And thanks. :)

But isn't this what Dolby Vision and HDR10+ are supposed to do?

[Warner306]

Yes, but they don't exist yet in the form used by most here. It is limited to HDR10. By first decoding the video or using real-time brightness histograms, you can mostly replace the need for HDR10+ or Dolby Vision content by creating the missing metadata.

[ashlar42]

Yes, but they don't exist yet in the form used by most here. It is limited to HDR10. By first decoding the video or using real-time brightness histograms, you can mostly replace the need for HDR10+ or Dolby Vision content by creating the missing metadata.Yes. Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear. I think this is a great achievement. Even more so considering that not all TVs support Dolby Vision (even from major producers).

[huhn]

measuring peak brightness is done by every local dimming TV well obviously because that's how you know how to dim the back light.

in theory this gives you HDR10+ (except for better encoding i still don't known what the big deal about this is instead of just sending it as HDR10 and let the TV measure it) and madVR could repack it like that.
but i really have a feeling madVR is using this to do a better job at tone mapping. so no the core reason to use HDR10+ is not given with this.

DV is a different beast on BD it adds extra high lights which are completely missing with out it and it has a higher insane peak nit that can't be put into HDR+.
and it's to me very obvious that it is very useful for HDR -> SDR conversation.

@NoTechi

an SDR 3D lut is used for HDR-SDR conversion and to get the best possible result there a gamma of 2.2 is needed.
because it really looks like madVR is mapping the PQ to 2.2 so to get the same brightness the PQ would have and to get the gamma processing kind of working.

[Megalith]

What kind of numbers are RTX 2080 Ti owners seeing with the most intensive settings (e.g., NGU Very High) enabled for 4K content?

[Ampallang]

Try these:

4K UHD:

Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (medium)
Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
Image upscaling: Jinc + AR
Image doubling: Off
Upscaling refinement: Off
Artifact removal - Debanding: Off
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering: Error Diffusion 2


1080p:

Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (low)
Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
Image upscaling: Off
Image doubling: NGU Sharp
<-- Luma doubling: high
<-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide (direct quadruple - NGU Sharp (high))
<-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
<-- Doubling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 1.2x (or bigger))
<-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 2.4x (or bigger))
<-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
<-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic150 + LL + AR)
Upscaling refinement: Off
Artifact removal - Debanding: medium/medium
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering: Error Diffusion 2


DVD:

Chroma: NGU Anti-Alias (low)
Downscaling: SSIM 1D 100% + LL + AR
Image upscaling: Off
Image doubling: NGU Anti-Alias
<-- Luma doubling: high
<-- Luma quadrupling: let madVR decide (direct quadruple - NGU Anti-Alias (high))
<-- Chroma: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
<-- Doubling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 1.2x (or bigger))
<-- Quadrupling: let madVR decide (scaling factor 2.4x (or bigger))
<-- Upscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic60 + AR)
<-- Downscaling algo: let madVR decide (Bicubic150 + LL + AR)
Upscaling refinement: Off
Artifact removal - Debanding: medium/medium
Artifact removal - Deringing: Off
Artifact removal - Deblocking: Off
Artifact removal - Denoising: Off
Image enhancements: Off
Dithering: Error Diffusion 2


You may not agree with the use debanding with those profiles. If you want the image to be sharper, try adding some image enhancements/upscaling refinement.

There is more information in the link in my signature if you are interested. The choice of what to use is mostly up to you.

Hi Warner that works very well now I will try to set for the sources some fine tuning. But the pas far as I can see it looks as good and better than before and I have the feeling that it take less resources in hdr.

Short question for a gpu upgrade end of the year. In case that the 1080 will disappear without a price tag of 300 Euro. I will look into an amd rx580 or vega56/64 how much more quality I can get in comparison to above settings with my gtx 960. I think the 4:4:4 and 10bit will make a huge step in pq, because the gtx can only handle 4:2:2 8bit. Or didnt I get more power and visual pq improvements. I ask because I want to switch next year from 55 oled to 65 oled or 75+ qled / micro led. Source is always with madvr via PC.

[Ampallang]

@all who use a TV as device can you please clarify that the tonemapping of madvr make no sense other than with a projector. Because the TV has always the tonemapping active in hdr.
So only for sdr TVs who aren't able to display hdr itself it will be an improvement. Or is there any benefit that some users are doing tonemapping for there hdr WCG TVs via madvr?

[el Filou]

@Ampallang madshi already answered this: basically, there are two possibilities:
- madVR might do better tone mapping than the TV if the TV's pretty bad, so using madVR tone mapping with SDR output and the TV at max brightness might give better results than the TV's own HDR mode
OR:
- if the TV has bad tone mapping but is not that dumb, you may be able to go around it by giving madVR the real max nits of your TV and still outputting in HDR, and then the TV will avoid doing a second tone mapping as the brightest pixels will be under its max brightness and it would be able to display 'as is'

[HDR]

Hi Warner that works very well now I will try to set for the sources some fine tuning. But the pas far as I can see it looks as good and better than before and I have the feeling that it take less resources in hdr.

Short question for a gpu upgrade end of the year. In case that the 1080 will disappear without a price tag of 300 Euro. I will look into an amd rx580 or vega56/64 how much more quality I can get in comparison to above settings with my gtx 960. I think the 4:4:4 and 10bit will make a huge step in pq, because the gtx can only handle 4:2:2 8bit. Or didnt I get more power and visual pq improvements. I ask because I want to switch next year from 55 oled to 65 oled or 75+ qled / micro led. Source is always with madvr via PC.
I have a GTX 960 + 65" oled and you'd be wasting your money.

It won't make any noticeable difference. A 960 is already more than capable with madVR.

4:4:4 and 10bit makes no difference. Video is mastered at 4:2:0 and 8 bit output with dithering is indistinguishable from 10 bit.

[ryrynz]

"960 can only handle 4:2:2 8bit" How did you even arrive at that? I ran 10 bit and 4:4:4 on my 960 no problem.

I have a GTX 960 + 65" oled and you'd be wasting your money.


AHEM, madVR's tonemapping is kinda a big deal and he's sure as heck gonna want more than a 960 for that and other stuff. How the RX is gonna cope I have no idea though, someone can weigh in once the next version lands in maybe a week or two.