madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Backflash]

SSIM 1D100% + AR, LL, AB 100% - did not help, lips and eyes sharper on super-xbr + lanczos3.

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/191909

Disable soften edges, add grain 2.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Even if you couldn't see those differences at all under normal viewing conditions (like I don't think I can for chroma, for example), just knowing you're using the "worst" settings may degrade the experience. If your GPU can handle it, why not use a decent algorithm "just in case"?

Because placebo is a very real and powerful phenomenon*, I see no reason why using "recommended best" settings wouldn't be a valid and acceptable way to proceed.
In addition, what if you test each algorithm individually and can't see a difference from a distance, but it turns out that adding them all together is just enough to make the difference visible? I'd rather be on the safe side and assume that it might make a difference even if I have to get up close to make out differences between individual algorithms. Besides, even if you can't consciously put your finger on what the difference is, a clearer image might reduce eyestrain or something.

[Uoppi]

In addition, what if you test each algorithm individually and can't see a difference from a distance, but it turns out that adding them all together is just enough to make the difference visible? I'd rather be on the safe side and assume that it might make a difference even if I have to get up close to make out differences between individual algorithms. Besides, even if you can't consciously put your finger on what the difference is, a clearer image might reduce eyestrain or something.

Very good point. I can immediately see madvr improves the overall PQ (less aliasing and ringing being the most obvious), so all is certainy not placebo and I wouldn't pay for a dedicated GPU just for placebo anyway.

My "problem" atm is it's difficult to find sufficient time for testing when you're required to be changing diapers at the same time, lol. So any starting point recommendations are always welcome and this forum has been invaluable. :thanks:

[ryrynz]

SSIM 1D100% + AR, LL, AB 100% - did not help, lips and eyes sharper on super-xbr + lanczos3.


I'd try disabling AB for starters and then as above, disable SE if it's enabled.

[Growdelan]

Disable soften edges, add grain 2.

I'd try disabling AB for starters and then as above, disable SE if it's enabled.

Ok, I turned off SE, and turned on AG 2. I think it work :)

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/191961

:thanks:

[flossy_cake]

Any chance to get g-sync working in windowed mode? Gsync officially supports windowed mode applications so it should work with MadVR too.

https://s14.postimg.org/4t6jivvg1/gsync.png

It is really disappointing to spend $1k on a monitor and not be able to take advantage of this feature.

Note: On my system, Gsync does work in full screen exclusive mode, but only with DX11 disabled under Rendering - General Settings. But it doesn't work for all video files. Strangely it does work for all youtube videos I've tested so far (piped by SVPTube).

[huhn]

g-sync is a banned topic here.

madVR aims at HTPCs not gaming devices.

[flossy_cake]

MadVR aims at the best possible rendering performance. If you look at the extent Madshi has gone to increasing the picture quality, how many countless hours must have been spent pursuing image fidelity through all of the features implementation that currently exist, it's a no brainer that gsync compatibility would be a desirable feature to support. Odd you would consider refresh rate matching some kind of "gaming" gimmick. No different to using 24hz mode on a HDTV or the refresh rate matching listview in MPC-HC. The goal is the same, the implementation is just more intuitive with gsync because it doesn't require anything extra than rendering in a particular D3D mode.

[huhn]

http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1719903&postcount=29243

[CruNcher]

Any chance to get g-sync working in windowed mode? Gsync officially supports windowed mode applications so it should work with MadVR too.

https://s14.postimg.org/4t6jivvg1/gsync.png

It is really disappointing to spend $1k on a monitor and not be able to take advantage of this feature.

Note: On my system, Gsync does work in full screen exclusive mode, but only with DX11 disabled under Rendering - General Settings. But it doesn't work for all video files. Strangely it does work for all youtube videos I've tested so far (piped by SVPTube).

So only because your ego spent 1K on it you think Markets will drift for you, that's not how they work ;)

Also the whole stuff is so much in Research State at all and so much in flux that it's a pain to make decisions based on that, that tomorrow could go invalid.

I can understand Madshi very good not playing this "Game" *g* a rather sane decision on a developer resource side.

[flossy_cake]

Wow you guys really have a passionate hatred for gsync! Quite surprised to find this in a place supposedly dedicated to video fidelity. I'm guessing you've never actually owned one of these monitors and don't really have any experience with it and/or realise the benefits. Strange, oh well.

Managing frame pacing should not be a problem - multiple frames can be pre-rendered in advance in D3D mode and the monitor matches the render queue not windows 16.7ms time slices. Remember we are in D3D mode, otherwise all 3D mode graphics would snap to the nearest 16.7ms and varisync would not work. With varisync you can fluctuate rapidly between multiple framerates (http://testufo.com/#test=stutter&demo=gsync&foreground=FFFFFF&background=000000&max=12&pps=720) and it is seamless so it doesn't actually matter if the frame pacing is a bit off, that's what makes it so good.

Besides the frame pacing is perfect in full screen mode already so it's probably 2 lines of code to enable the same D3D mode for windowed. But I see Madshi hates it so it'll never happen, oh well.

[nevcairiel]

This was discussed several times before, and the core rendering logic of madVR is not compatible with G-SYNC (or FreeSync for that matter), since it relies on constant V-SYNC intervals for timing the video frames. With G-SYNC it would have to do its own timing, as V-SYNC doesn't exist anymore. Its not like a game where it can just render more or less frames depending on how fast everything runs.
Feel free to search the topic, it has been discussed several times and madshi has commented several times as well that such modes are not planned to be supported anytime soon, as it would require drastic changes to the rendering logic.

V-SYNC has key advantages to video rendering because its a hardware driven interrupt system, no need for inaccurate timers and hope they are correct.

huhn already linked a reply from madshi in an earlier post, so refer to that for the word from madVRs author:
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1719903&postcount=29243

(Yes we're aware that by now G-SYNC works through HDMI, but TVs still don't exist that do that)

[XTrojan]

G-Sync has no benefit in MadVR buddy.
Movies are delivered in a static framerate, V-Sync handles this exactly like G-Sync would in the same situation.
The only difference is if you would drop frames, that's when G-Sync would improve things a little, but who watches movies with dropped frames?

[CruNcher]

XTrojan that's the thing and point nvidia enhances render stability of Windows by shifting the whole issue from the OS to their driver taking control ;)

[e-t172]

G-Sync has no benefit in MadVR buddy.
Movies are delivered in a static framerate, V-Sync handles this exactly like G-Sync would in the same situation.
The only difference is if you would drop frames, that's when G-Sync would improve things a little, but who watches movies with dropped frames?

I disagree. G-Sync, at least in theory, makes it possible to completely slave the video clock to the audio clock, thereby getting rid of frame drops/repeats that are caused by slight mismatch between the two clocks. Which solves an actual problem that affects everyone in this thread, because it's a fundamental problem of video playback on PC in general. The only ways to "solve" that problem today are (1) use ReClock, (2) use Smooth Motion or (3) spend hours fiddling with custom refresh rate timings to try to get it closer to the audio clock. All three "solutions" are brittle hacks that come with significant tradeoffs. G-Sync could be a proper, clean solution to that problem.

However, as madshi already pointed out in the past, one of the main obstacles to using G-Sync to improve video playback is that the set of video displays that support G-Sync (typically, gaming monitors) and the set of video displays that are typically used for video playback (HDTVs, projectors) do not overlap. In other words G-Sync support would only benefit people who critically watch videos on a gaming monitor, which is a very small niche, even among madVR users (which is already a small niche).

There was some excitement in the past about FreeSync being part of new HDMI specs, and one could speculate that it would make sense to support variable sync in HDTVs because game consoles could use it, but despite that, I have never seen an HDTV with variable sync support, nor have I seen any manufacturer interest in it. Maybe after the dust settles around HDR, one could hope…

[CruNcher]

There was some excitement in the past about FreeSync being part of new HDMI specs, but despite that, and one could speculate that it would make sense to support variable sync in HDTVs because game consoles could use it, but despite that, I have never seen an HDTV with variable sync support, nor have I seen any manufacturer interest in it. Maybe after the dust settles around HDR, one could hope…

Right you have all the advanced FRC stuff their and HDR and 10 bit have top priority, when VFR gets more mature in the Future and a definite Standard decided everyone benefits from sure we will see a massive adoption but that's in the shelves for the next TV releases ;)

Also Microsoft has other priorities getting HDR and 10 bit by default into Windows now and VFR is absolutely left to the IHVs for now battling out a mature approach.

[flossy_cake]

I fully accept that gsync will not be getting support and will not be asking for it any further, but I want to correct some misinformation as it really annoys me:

the core rendering logic of madVR is not compatible with G-SYNC (or FreeSync for that matter), since it relies on constant V-SYNC intervals for timing the video frames.

It currently works in full screen exclusive mode.


Its not like a game where it can just render more or less frames depending on how fast everything runs.

It doesn't matter if a frames arrive a few milliseconds late/early because it's no longer having to snap to the nearest 16.7ms (for a 60hz monitor). So your frames can arrive like this: 40ms-35ms-45ms-42ms-38ms etc. and it looks seamless because the monitor is matching this pattern exactly (see the testufo demo on previous page). That's what's so great about it, it solves this need to match to any refresh rate, you no longer have to worry about frame pacing.



V-SYNC has key advantages to video rendering because its a hardware driven interrupt system, no need for inaccurate timers and hope they are correct.

Look up hi res timer libraries. I'm pretty sure the RivaTuner D3D limiter uses one as it is very accurate (sort of the "gold standard" of limiters) and certainly isn't limited to 16.7ms slices.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa964692(v=vs.85).aspx

G-Sync has no benefit in MadVR buddy.Movies are delivered in a static framerate, V-Sync handles this exactly like G-Sync would in the same situation.

I suppose I could set it up for vsync fixed refresh mode and have MPC-HC automatically switch modes per file, but that is a lot of mode switching with youtube videos :)

[x7007]

Using many players when I use 59 Hz on my TV Philips 7007 the exclusive black flash is instant when going in and out of the video.

When using 60 Hz the black flash is almost 2 sec for no reason. The video still shows 60 Hz on the Display and Composition rate, it doesn't seem to change refresh rate while entering exclusive mode.


Does anyone have any idea how to fix it ? it's annoying to go out and in the video when it's 2 sec instead instant.

[nevcairiel]

It doesn't matter if a frames arrive a few milliseconds late/early because it's no longer having to snap to the nearest 16.7ms (for a 60hz monitor). So your frames can arrive like this: 40ms-35ms-45ms-42ms-38ms etc. and it looks seamless because the monitor is matching this pattern exactly (see the testufo demo on previous page). That's what's so great about it, it solves this need to match to any refresh rate, you no longer have to worry about frame pacing.


Aren't you the one that wants smooth motion by using G-SYNC? and then you advocate for inaccurate timers? That gives you micro-judder everywhere. How is that any good?
Either it has to work perfectly, or its not worth using.


Look up hi res timer libraries.

Windows is not a real-time OS, even with a infinite resolution timer there are no guarantees that you can actually act in that exact moment. VSYNC on ther other hand is a hardware interrupt, it has all the guarantees.

Considering 99.9% of all content is fixed refresh rate, just switching your screen refresh is a much easier solution.

[CruNcher]

I fully accept that gsync will not be getting support and will not be asking for it any further, but I want to correct some misinformation as it really annoys me:



It currently works in full screen exclusive mode.



It doesn't matter if a frames arrive a few milliseconds late/early because it's no longer having to snap to the nearest 16.7ms (for a 60hz monitor). So your frames can arrive like this: 40ms-35ms-45ms-42ms-38ms etc. and it looks seamless because the monitor is matching this pattern exactly (see the testufo demo on previous page). That's what's so great about it, it solves this need to match to any refresh rate, you no longer have to worry about frame pacing.




Look up hi res timer libraries. I'm pretty sure the RivaTuner D3D limiter uses one as it is very accurate (sort of the "gold standard" of limiters) and certainly isn't limited to 16.7ms slices.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa964692(v=vs.85).aspx



I suppose I could set it up for vsync fixed refresh mode and have MPC-HC automatically switch modes per file, but that is a lot of mode switching with youtube videos :)

Yes you seem to have understood it then i guess you also understand that it hasn't anything todo with Performance but only the delivery of the result and that you will percept this higher latency still as a slowdown a smoother slow down but still a slow down ;)

A developers goal should be allways to deliver Performance to alleviate this clean code perfect timing.

You as a customer now pay for that a currently to high Premium price, but you can't really expect every Dev to change his mind about that unless maybe they get a share of that money from Nvidia to implement and support it from the money you spend on it ;)

And you can be sure not everyone will agree that currently this is the right path to go longterm improving the situation instead for the masses only for a small paying brainwashed portion of it.

[Backflash]

In other words G-Sync support would only benefit people who critically watch videos on a gaming monitor, which is a very small niche, even among madVR users (which is already a small niche).

I wouldn't be so sure, how do I put this, if someone bothered to learn about madvr then went through settings learning curve(which is overwhelming at first) and has semi decent GPU to run it all I would say such person is watching at it critically enough.
Also people that go through all that usually have several hobbies and get good monitors/tvs(fun fact: recent asus gaming IPS monitors have better color quality than most 60hz IPS models, according to tft central).
Then there is social factor: anime, tv, videogames at the same time attract special kind of crowd. I for example do everything on my MG279q and have no wish for HTPC.
Just a thought, I may be 180' wrong on this.

[Backflash]

A developers goal should be always to deliver Performance to alleviate this clean code perfect timing.

I'd take PQ over performance any day, settings that I can't use now I would bruteforce couple GPU generation later. Sorry for such videogame kind of approach.

[e-t172]

It currently works in full screen exclusive mode.

Depends on your definition of "works", I suppose. madVR does not actually leverage G-Sync, it's just not broken by it - you get the same end result whether G-Sync is enabled or not. So it's kinda misleading to say that it "works", IMHO.

It doesn't matter if a frames arrive a few milliseconds late/early because it's no longer having to snap to the nearest 16.7ms (for a 60hz monitor).

Actually, in the case of video playback, that matters a lot - contrary to games, regular, accurate cadence is very important for smooth playback. With fixed V-Sync the video clock is inflexible, but at least it's precise.

I think you are confused about how madVR works today. It's not a video game. With fixed V-Sync, madVR doesn't have to worry about maintaining an accurate 16.7ms interval - it just hands the next frame to the GPU well in advance (typically 8 frames in advance, IIRC, with the default settings), and it's the responsibility of the GPU hardware to display these frames on a regular 16.7ms interval, using its own hardware clock, with no interaction with the OS or madVR. There is no need to worry about "frames arriving a few milliseconds late/early" today. It's the opposite: it's when G-Sync is used that you need to worry, see below.

So your frames can arrive like this: 40ms-35ms-45ms-42ms-38ms etc. and it looks seamless because the monitor is matching this pattern exactly (see the testufo demo on previous page).

That makes sense for games, where frames are generated on the fly and the game decides which time point each frame corresponds to. In video it's the opposite - you don't have a say as to how the frames within the video are timestamped, so you have no choice but to match these timestamps exactly. The player is slaved to these timestamps, not the other way around. If you don't match them exactly (such as in your example), you get presentation jitter, and that's bad.

That's what's so great about it, it solves this need to match to any refresh rate, you no longer have to worry about frame pacing.

Yes you do. You still need to make sure the frames are presented at the exact correct time according to the video timestamps and whatever clock the player is using (typically, the audio clock), otherwise you will get noticeable jitter. If that means that madVR needs to do a present call at the exact right time, then that's not good enough, because Windows is not a real-time OS, so there are no guarantees that madVR will be able to make that call at the appropriate time.

Now, if there was a way to prepare the frames on the GPU and then tell the GPU to present them at a very specific rate using its own hardware clock, then that would be usable (and ideal) for video, and that's something that (I'm guessing) madVR could use. Unfortunately, unless I missed something, there is no way to do this, at least not with the APIs that the GPUs currently provide.

I wouldn't be so sure, how do I put this, if someone bothered to learn about madvr then went through settings learning curve(which is overwhelming at first) and has semi decent GPU to run it all I would say such person is watching at it critically enough.

I think you misunderstood my point. My point was, most people who are in this case (i.e. take the time to learn how to use madVR, worry about cadence…) do not typically use gaming monitors to play their videos on. Instead they use large HDTVs or projection systems, which don't support G-Sync. It's a bit weird to spend all this time getting to the perfect playback system only to use it on a 28" gamer-optimized panel just because it has G-Sync. I'm sure there are people in this case, but it's a very small niche, even among madVR users.

[Ver Greeneyes]

VSYNC on ther other hand is a hardware interrupt, it has all the guarantees.
I'm not sure this is necessarily true, IIRC a VSync interrupt does exist but Windows display drivers are not required to implement it or have it active, and Direct3D 9 as far as I know doesn't use it (even with D3DPRESENT_INTERVAL_ONE it just sets the thread granularity to 1ms so it's a best effort sort of thing). Maybe the compositor (DWM) on newer versions of Windows does make use of it; I've always thought it was annoying how user mode threads can't be woken up by interrupts, but kernel mode threads at least can.

[XTrojan]

If you're seeking perfect playback without switching refresh rate constantly, G-Sync is not a solution, instead, get a 120Hz monitor or a TV, put it at 120Hz, 24/30/60Hz youtube videos will now playback without issue. One exception is 25/50Hz content which will jitter.

There is no solution today to get perfect playback for every video with all variable frame rates out there, VFR is also outdated and no Movie directors so far plan to use it. The only situation is if you want to combine several clips with variable frame rates in which VFR can serve useful.

[leo91531]

test @GTX1080 & RX480

http://i.imgur.com/5T9vkKP.png(no SR)

I think NGU is like NNEDI3+SR ,but NGU rendering time is less than NNEDI3+SR

NGU is great!

[CruNcher]

Nice compare even if totally unfair from the GPU side ;)

[Backflash]

Nice compare even if totally unfair from the GPU side ;)

I think the point is how well it scales with hardware. 1080 is roughly twice as powerful compared to 480.

[plasma]

G-Sync has no benefit in MadVR buddy.
Movies are delivered in a static framerate, V-Sync handles this exactly like G-Sync would in the same situation.
The only difference is if you would drop frames, that's when G-Sync would improve things a little, but who watches movies with dropped frames?
How is that even true. When watching a 24 fps file on a 60 hz screen it has to use 3:2 pulldown. This leads to alternating frame repeats. One is shown 3 times the other just 2 times

with freesync you could watch it at frame double 48hz, which means no alternating frame repeats and consistent movement

[plasma]

If you're seeking perfect playback without switching refresh rate constantly, G-Sync is not a solution, instead, get a 120Hz monitor or a TV, put it at 120Hz, 24/30/60Hz youtube videos will now playback without issue. One exception is 25/50Hz content which will jitter.

There is no solution today to get perfect playback for every video with all variable frame rates out there, VFR is also outdated and no Movie directors so far plan to use it. The only situation is if you want to combine several clips with variable frame rates in which VFR can serve useful.
The advantage of adaptive sync is that you do not need a hfr panel, which would make it feasible in future TVs.

TVs which accept 120hz input will not exist on the other hand anytime soon, since no content is produced in that frame rate

[nevcairiel]

with freesync you could watch it at frame double 48hz, which means no alternating frame repeats and consistent movement

Or you know, you could just switch your screen to 24/48/72/96/120Hz. :) Noone said you absolutely have to watch it at 60.


TVs which accept 120hz input will not exist on the other hand anytime soon, since no content is produced in that frame rate

Actually, they do exist, although its not an extremely common feature.

[XTrojan]

How is that even true. When watching a 24 fps file on a 60 hz screen it has to use 3:2 pulldown. This leads to alternating frame repeats. One is shown 3 times the other just 2 times

with freesync you could watch it at frame double 48hz, which means no alternating frame repeats and consistent movement

G-Sync/Freesync multiplies framerates if they are low, if the panel is set to 120Hz and the content is 24hz it will multiply by 5.

24Hz to 60 is not consistent either with G-Sync or Freesync, I don't see how it could be consistent. What Freesync/G-Sync will do is just multiply framerate to minimize judder, there will still most likely be judder.

https://www.pcper.com/files/review/2015-03-26/gsync2.png

Up until the game outputs 40frames/s you can see that it's not flawless, after 40Hz it becomes flawless as the frames stop repeating and the dynamic refresh rate kicks in.

[leeperry]

G-Sync blabbering again? madshi said he doesn't care for it.

I never understood why there is AB for SSIM
Coz it's better to do it at the very last stage? That's my experience anyway.

NGU is great
Definitely, luma-only(can't afford it for chroma) medium NGU for 720p@1080p looks wonderful :)

[Razoola]

This G-sync chat is quite annoying I agree. The point of G-sync is more about stopping screen trearing in games and nothing more. A movie is just not going to look good if frames are not being hit at a set time. The only arguement I can agree with for gsync is that of matchng the videoclock to the audio clock but you can do this well already by simply making custom resolutions.

[ikarad]

Any chance to get g-sync working in windowed mode? Gsync officially supports windowed mode applications so it should work with MadVR too.

https://s14.postimg.org/4t6jivvg1/gsync.png

It is really disappointing to spend $1k on a monitor and not be able to take advantage of this feature.

Note: On my system, Gsync does work in full screen exclusive mode, but only with DX11 disabled under Rendering - General Settings. But it doesn't work for all video files. Strangely it does work for all youtube videos I've tested so far (piped by SVPTube).

gsync can be turn on with madvr in windowed mode and fullscreen mode even if it's useless.

[ikarad]

There was some excitement in the past about FreeSync being part of new HDMI specs, and one could speculate that it would make sense to support variable sync in HDTVs because game consoles could use it, but despite that, I have never seen an HDTV with variable sync support, nor have I seen any manufacturer interest in it. Maybe after the dust settles around HDR, one could hope…
https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/235781-amd-hints-freesync-capable-tvs-might-come-to-market-boost-ps4-and-xbox-one-graphics

"AMD’s Raja Koduri, head of RTG, had this to say: ““We are definitely working with the entire display community on getting FreeSync to more places,” said Koduri. “I think this is something we should follow up…on what we can share at this point on FreeSync TVs.”"

[plasma]

G-Sync/Freesync multiplies framerates if they are low, if the panel is set to 120Hz and the content is 24hz it will multiply by 5.

24Hz to 60 is not consistent either with G-Sync or Freesync, I don't see how it could be consistent. What Freesync/G-Sync will do is just multiply framerate to minimize judder, there will still most likely be judder.

https://www.pcper.com/files/review/2015-03-26/gsync2.png

Up until the game outputs 40frames/s you can see that it's not flawless, after 40Hz it becomes flawless as the frames stop repeating and the dynamic refresh rate kicks in.

it is 24 (native) to 48 (2x) if the display has a 40-60 refresh rate. Why would it go to 60? And being flawless from more than 40 is all the display needs to do.

You then have AABBCCDDEE frames instead of AAABBCCCDD, which produces judder

[aufkrawall]

There shouldn't be any noticeable stutter below 40fps. I didn't experience that myself with a 144hz Gsync display and PCper explicitly write that Gsyncs always "feels" judder-free (or at least they said this in some video).

[Knight77]

Does anyone recommend me best settings for 2k to 4k upscaling of REMUX mkv files?

Oguignant you can find some answers here: http://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=259188

The part starting with " Let's repeat this process, this time assuming the display resolution is 3840 x 2160p (4K UHD) "
You can search that in the page and there it starts the part you should check :-)

Now you own me a bottle of Malbec ! ;-)

[Warner306]

Is soften edges necessary at 720p -> 1080p? I am currently recommending it.

I know larger scaling factors are more prone to looking cartoony, but what about 720p -> 1080p? I am using NGU medium quality luma upscaling with SSIM 1D 100% downscaling.

[Knight77]

Ok, I turned off SE, and turned on AG 2. I think it work :)

http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/191961

:thanks:

In one of the first image comparison posted I could really see the difference: the image was too soft. As noticed by Growdelan in the lips and eyes part was quite clear. So SE really makes images so soft?

Not related question: how many ms are good for rendering time and present time ?

[Backflash]

In one of the first image comparison posted I could really see the difference: the image was too soft. As noticed by Growdelan in the lips and eyes part was quite clear. So SE really makes images so soft?

Not related question: how many ms are good for rendering time and present time ?

Well, NGU makes things way too sharp for 1080 doubling. For 720 I don't think NGU needs SE. Taste option.

any ms that doesn't have dropped frames and you do not feel any jitter
for me it's anything under 35ms

[JarrettH]

Edit: meant to ask in MPC thread

[madshi]

Since NGU doesn't benefit from SuperRes, is possible/useful to apply SuperRes only to the last upscale step (Jinc/C-R etc.), after NGU?
Might make sense right now, but probably won't make sense in the future, because in the future NGU will probably be able to directly upscale by 3x or even 4x. So there might not be a "last upscale step", anymore, but when using NGU, the last step might always be a downscaling step instead.

Here is a small sample (http://www.filedropper.com/avatar), notice how the 3D effects of the movie cut through the 3D subtitles, this is happening during the whole movie and it doesn't matter whether I use xySubFilter or the MPC-HC internal sub engine.

Sample was done using latest MakeMKV and then splitting it with latest MKVToolNIX.
Thanks, will have a look at this when I find some time. Not sure when that will be, though.

Might make sense to add a bug entry to the madVR bug tracker, just to be safe.

Does "NGU = Jinc" etc. in the OSD mean madvr is reverting to Jinc instead of using NGU (for whatever reason)?
Not enough information. Can't say anything unless I see a screenshot of the OSD, or at least the full scaling related text lines from the OSD.

Have you noticed high CPU usage when using NGU? https://i.imgbox.com/CNYlkAXK.png I have i7 5820K so it is ~88% of thread power so not much left here.
Somewhat strange. You're not using the "ShowRenderSteps" empty file hack, are you? Do you use custom flush settings?

And this problem only occurs when using NGU?

Here are 4 samples. I've found adding grain to SD content really helps remove the proccessed look. I'm using level 2 in these images.

I'm also NOT using smoothen edges for SD content it is not required. It is required for HD...

Which one looks best to you? I should mention I'm getting a much better render performance with ngu low versus nnedi3 128 with SR3
Don't see too much of a difference, to be honest. These images are really small.

Is that workaround still present?
Yes, and it's impossible that it hurts.

My eyes are pretty sensitive to motion judder. Mind you, my projector does 23.976 fps and I am able to playback my content at the proper FPS (i believe it is correct anyway) with 0% clock deviation from player to display. However, my white-whale exists as a video signal that looks like film with the motion smoothness of 60hz/120hz but without that fake-plasticky-SOE. My projector, even at the lowest CMD (clear motion-drive) setting, looks like a mexican soap opera. Even with an Oppo 103D blu-ray player, I still experience the same (if not more) judder than when playing movies from my HTPC -- therefore I sold it.
So you don't like the normal 23.976fps judder, and you don't like the JVC motion smoother, either? That's a problem. I suppose there might be motion smoothers which are better than what the JVC does. But I'm not sure if it's possible to make motion smoother without getting the soap opera look.

I suppose you could try to play with SVP or BlueSky to see if they produce something you like better. SVP has a ton of settings, maybe one of them does what you need?

Or maybe what you need is a selective motion smoother which only smooths camera pans/zooms, but nothing else? I'm not sure if such a thing exists, though.

test @GTX1080 & RX480

I think NGU is like NNEDI3+SR ,but NGU rendering time is less than NNEDI3+SR
Good comparison, I like that you're not using chroma doubling. It shows that you know what you're doing... ;)

[madshi]

For those of you interested in FreeSync/G-SYNC:

I've changed the 2nd post of this thread to a FAQ. The first FAQ is now the FreeSync/G-SYNC topic.

[Warner306]

Nevermind, everything has changed. Will report back after testing.

[madshi]

madVR v0.91.2 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* renamed NGU quality levels: Low -> Med, Med -> High, High -> VeryHigh
* added a new even faster NGU "Low" variant
* reworked chroma/image up/downscaling/doubling settings pages
* removed NEDI and super-xbr image doubling algorithms
* small speed improvement for NGU-Med (former NGU-Low)
* small quality improvement for NGU-Med/High (former NGU-Low/Med)
* settings dialog warns when SuperRes and NGU are enabled at the same time
* pixel shader database is compressed now to save space
I've changed the whole scaling settings logic to make things easier to understand, and to protect "normal" users from chosing bad configurations. I'm not sure if the power users will like the changes or not. Please give it a try and let me know what you think. I'm willing to consider alternatives/changes/extensions. But it's important that "normal" users are guided by the settings dialog in such a way that they choose good settings.

I've dropped super-xbr for image doubling because the new "NGU-Low" is now faster (at least for me) than super-xbr, even without SuperRes. So the only 2 remaining resolution doublers are now NGU and NNEDI3. FYI, when doing an exact 2x upscale, NGU-Low is now also faster than JincAR (without SuperRes)!

super-xbr is still available for chroma upscaling, though.

[huhn]

Might make sense right now, but probably won't make sense in the future, because in the future NGU will probably be able to directly upscale by 3x or even 4x. So there might not be a "last upscale step", anymore, but when using NGU, the last step might always be a downscaling step instead.

sorry i don't see that working for DVDs.

edit: and very common 4/3 AR 16/9 broadcast shouldn't work too.

[pose]

madshi, what NNEDI3 value NGU med supposed to compete with quality and performance wise?

[huhn]

it was
NGU very high below nnedi3 64
NGU high below nnedi3 32
NGU mid below nnedi 16

doesn't count for polaris GPUs.