madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Neo-XP]

ok got it amplifying again...

i mean a very very small part of an 720p image was scaled to 720p

The source is FHD (1080p). What you see in my comparison is a part of the resulting 4K image.

[huhn]

this is a 720p part of the scaled UHD image in 720p from the "hat": https://abload.de/img/720puhdcutkuocr.png

these image from here are amplified: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1790272&postcount=41614

NGU very high/chroma NGU med: https://abload.de/img/bicubic60art1r0o.png
NGU very high/chroma bicubic 60 AR: https://abload.de/img/ngumedokrt7.png

i'm pretty sure lanczos will not make a difference comparing these two.
BTW you can compare lanczos 3 AR and bicubic 60 AR upscaling to get an idea of the difference in chroma which looks like nothing at all to me.

[Neo-XP]

this is a 720p part of the scaled UHD image in 720p from the "hat": https://abload.de/img/720puhdcutkuocr.png

these image from here are amplified: http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1790272&postcount=41614

NGU very high/chroma NGU med: https://abload.de/img/bicubic60art1r0o.png
NGU very high/chroma bicubic 60 AR: https://abload.de/img/ngumedokrt7.png

You didn't test with Lanczos there, so what is the point ?

i'm pretty sure lanczos will not make a difference comparing these two.

Yes it makes a difference, I've posted the result and Lanczos performs better than Bicubic :o
It is not a big difference, but to quote madshi : "highest quality has priority over anything else".

BTW you can compare lanczos 3 AR and bicubic 60 AR upscaling to get an idea of the difference in chroma which looks like nothing at all to me.

I have already done that, and Bicubic is not a good algorithm to upscale.
Can you show an image where bicubic 60 AR is better for upscaling than lanczos 3 AR ?

[huhn]

you are showing a difference by amplifying an image to a ridiculous point.
if you need to amplify this than there is no difference it is that simple.

there is no real difference between NGU and bicubic except the arm where NGU is doing bad looks cut out and adds ringing. but NGU chroma doubling does change the image.

if you really want a lanczos 3 AR vs bicubic 60 AR i can do that...
here you go Cr rendered as Y:
https://abload.de/img/1dup4r.png
https://abload.de/img/24arvq.png

[Neo-XP]

you are showing a difference by amplifying an image to a ridiculous point.
if you need to amplify this than there is no difference it is that simple.

Sorry, but this make no sense. If there was no difference, zooming on the images would produce the same result, which is not the case.

there is no real difference between NGU and bicubic except the arm where NGU is doing bad looks cut out and adds ringing. but NGU chroma doubling does change the image.

I see a lot of differences between Bicubic and NGU for chroma doubling, even at 100% zoom.

if you really want a lanczos 3 AR vs bicubic 60 AR i can do that...
here you go Cr rendered as Y:
https://abload.de/img/1dup4r.png
https://abload.de/img/24arvq.png


https://abload.de/img/24arvq.png is Lanczos3 AR, right ? because it looks sharper.
I don't know how you did that, but it is cool and you can see the differences better :thanks:

I don't think you can show an image where bicubic 60 AR is better for upscaling than lanczos 3 AR.

[huhn]

Sorry, but this make no sense. If there was no difference, zooming on the images would produce the same result, which is not the case.

so you are now going to watch stuff with a zoom?
you can show a difference always so we should get scaler in 100 steps with enough zooming it will show a difference.

see doesn't make sense.

I see a lot of differences between Bicubic and NGU for chroma doubling, even at 100% zoom.
this image is not zoom and i can see the difference too. NGU and bicubic are totally different scaler while lanczos and cubic scalers are similar.
https://abload.de/img/24arvq.png is Lanczos3 AR right ? because it looks sharper.

Can you show an image where bicubic 60 AR is better for upscaling than lanczos 3 AR ?

to be honest i don't even know but i guess it is and it doesn't matter showing Cr only is a very hard amplifying.
the difference is close to nothing it is a waste of time.
on a normal image the Y channel will totally dominate the image.

high quality chroma scaling is questionable small most of the time but the difference are day night if Cr is rendered as Y.

and about "highest quality has priority over anything else".
chroma doubling was remove from madVR before and the main reason/image example it is in again was a 320p pixel art RGB image that showed a difference (it wasn't really better BTW.)

not to talk about even higher bit deep that could be used and other stuff that may show a difference when we zoom in enough.

[Neo-XP]

the difference is close to nothing it is a waste of time.

Yes, I know, but why propose an inferior algorithm to upscale when you could have Lanczos3 AR with the same performance ? :D

Of course you won't be able to differentiate them in motion at 100% zoom, but that is not the point.
The point, for me at least, is to have the highest quality you can get for your hardware ;)

Bicubic shouldn't be used to upscale anything at all. It is good for downscaling though (with AR).

[Mistery 73]

"Reduce ringing artifacts" madVR filter only removes haloing, not mosquito noise. So you shold try deringing & mosquito noise reduction (http://avisynth.nl/index.php/External_filters#Deringing_.26_Mosquito_Noise) Avisynth filters.

I am also interested in reducing mosquito noise as I have to use the plagin? I have to enter in the madVR folder?
thank you

[Warner306]

I've come across a user trying to create profiles for 3D and non-3D content. This is his rule:

else if (3D) and ((srcWidth > 1280) and (srcWidth <= 1920)) "1080p 3D"
else if (3D) and ((srcWidth <= 1280) and (srcHeight > 720) and (srcHeight <= 1080)) "1080p 3D"

else if (not 3D) and ((srcWidth > 1280) and (srcWidth <= 1920)) "1080p"
else if (not 3D) and ((srcWidth <= 1280) and (srcHeight > 720) and (srcHeight <= 1080)) "1080p"

Can you tell me if anything is wrong with this rule?

[cork_OS]

I am also interested in reducing mosquito noise as I have to use the plagin? I have to enter in the madVR folder?
thank you
I was not expecting I will explain the Avisynth usage basics on this forum. :D
To use Avisynth plugins you need to install one of numerous Avisynth builds, find and download Avisynth plugin on this forum or avisynth.nl, then manually write Avisynth script on its scripting language and open script in video player. You should expect compatibility, stability and speed issues between particular Avisynth build and particular build of particular Avisynth plugin.

[cork_OS]

Sorry, previous post turned up too sarcastic and uninformative.
madVR include no avisynth / vapoursynth support, so opening video in player through avisynth script is the only way of real-time madVR preprocessing.
In addition to overall avisynth usage complexities, a lot of avisynth plugins are still too slow for real-time usage. So madVR existence is the salvation for end users and I pray for it's further development.
Lack of bitrate (and compression artifacts) is the usual thing for nowadays dowloadable / streaming H.264 content, as well as compression artifacts on older MPEG-2 DVDs (and countless MPEG-4 ASP encodes), and I do not know how to reduce compression artifacts while preserving details in real time.

[Georgel]

Yeah, it also contributes to climate change using GPUs like many here which are drawing more power alone than my whole desktop computer system including the monitor... Maybe power is way too cheap in many countries...
It is definitely a question of efficiency. Is it efficient to invest 500% more power to gain 0.5% better picture quality :D
The trend here is obvious: Spending as much money as one wants for a certain GPU and then maxing the load (90% until frames are dropping). And if max drawing algorithms arent´t possible, throw away the half year old GPU and buying a new one. Reminds me sometimes of the gaming scene, there obviously it seems very important to get 500 frames per second for certain games, for whatever that´s good for.
I think for the people who are so proud of their GPU handling 256 neuron NNEDI3 luma and chroma quadrupling there´s some need for the possibility of 512 neuron octopling :D:D:D
No offense, only a way of thinking about that.:rolleyes:

But that's the whole fun!

Seriously now, I find myself using Jinc more than any other algo, except maybe for NNEDI since those two are best for my usage scenario, but NNEDI 200% forced makes my laptop go too loud so I can't really enjoy the whole anime or movie or AMV I'm watching... Guess Jinc will do for now.

[Georgel]

This is what I use now after a lot of testing with films (on good old v0.91.1 with a GTX 970) :

artifact removal : reduce banding artifacts (medium + high)

chroma upscaling : NGU-Med / super-xbr150 + AR + SR4 (no clear winner here, I use NGU-Med because the edges are sharper)
image downscaling : Bicubic150 + AR (relaxed)
image doubling for luma : 2x supersampling with NGU-Med
image doubling for chroma : Lanczos3 + AR
upscaling refinement : soften edges 1 + add grain 3

dithering : Ordered + use colored noise + change dither for every frame
Error Diffusion - option 2 gives better result, but I can't use it for 4K with my GC (90% load and dropped frames).

To remove ringing and dark halos, I just use this in aviSynth :
SetMemoryMax(768)
SetMTMode(3)
ffdshow_source()
SetMTMode(2)
FineDehalo(thmi=128, thma=128, thlimi=50, thlima=50, contra=1.0)
SetMTMode(1)
GetMTMode(false) > 0 ? distributor() : last

I'm still waiting for a new version to come out to disable image quadrupling and use Lanczos3 + AR for chroma doubling (NGU is overkill for this and Bicubic60 is not as sharp). I will then be able to do an apples-to-apples comparison.

Speaking of comparisons, here is one between super-xbr150 + AR + SR4 and NGU-Med for chroma upscaling :

https://s24.postimg.org/n817t3w35/superxbr150_AR_SR4.png (https://postimg.org/image/n817t3w35/) https://s24.postimg.org/bhnabq3ap/NGU_Med.png (https://postimg.org/image/bhnabq3ap/)

Edges are sharper with NGU, but the texture looks sharper with super-xbr... I can't decide.

With NGU, if the source is too low quality, that sharpness does not look natural, but it works well for RL videos compared to drawn materials.

Super XBR is also a bit sharp for edges, depending on the material.

[Warner306]

When recommending settings, how much performance does Error Diffusion take versus Ordered dithering at 4K? At 1080p, the performance is negligible with a 750 Ti. I wonder if it saves enough performance to bother using Ordered.

How many ms does Ordered save you? For me, it's a couple ms at most.

[Neo-XP]

When recommending settings, how much performance does Error Diffusion take versus Ordered dithering at 4K? At 1080p, the performance is negligible with a 750 Ti. I wonder if it saves enough performance to bother using Ordered.

How many ms does Ordered save you? For me, it's a couple ms at most.

Typically, with Error Diffusion option 2 versus Ordered, 20% more load on a GTX 970 (from 58% to 78%) and +10ms (from 24ms to 34ms) for 1080p content upscaled to 4K.

I don't know why I had more than 90% load before, I can't reproduce the issue at the moment :confused:

You really have to test on specific patterns to see any difference between the two.

[MistahBonzai]

I am also interested in reducing mosquito noise as I have to use the plagin? I have to enter in the madVR folder?
thank you

You should be familiar with the ins/outs of AviSynth (MT and Plus32/64) before embarking on what may initially seem a simple task. Otherwise it may well turn into a rat-hole where problem solving rather than media consumption provides the entertainment/pleasure.

[oddball]

I have been using MadVR to switch display modes. However. When switching to 2160p when the TV out is initially set to 1080 the video starts in a quarter size window in the top left corner of my LG OLED (LG TV reads 2160p on info). If the TV out is initially set to 2160p it plays UHD video fine but when I play a 1080p video it switches to 1080 on the TV and plays a portion of the video only on one half of the TV (again showing 1080 on TV info). The other side is black. If I disable DX11 in MadVR (as long as FSE is enabled) it works as expected, but DX9 is buggy as heck on AMD drivers. If I just set 2160p as the resolution to switch to MadVR will scale to 2160p which I presume puts more strain on the GPU? Which is the correct method? Should I forget about sending 1080p to my UHD TV and let MadVR scale it to 2160p?

I find the different resolutions confusing when it comes to using MadVR. It was pretty straightforward before :)

[EncodedMango]

Is it normal to have such high rendering times for 10-bit videos? I've noticed it in both HEVC and H264. I suspect it might be because of a lack of H/W Decoding but I'd like to confirm regardless.
http://i.imgur.com/BXhm7Xm.jpg

GTX 970, LAV with DXVA2 native is what I use by the way.

[AngelGraves13]

Lower your settings. You're dropping way too many frames.

[khanmein]

@sidspyker disable smooth motion can at least reduce 10 ms

[EncodedMango]

Lower your settings. You're dropping way too many frames.
Huh, you're right, didn't notice but I think it might be due to other factors, pressed some hotkeys by accident so I'll retake another screenie of the same content to remove that possibility.
This rendering time issue is only happening in 10bit btw. 8 bit is normal(12-14ms) and very little dropped frames.

EDIT:
Another stats screen, took it after letting the content run a good 10 minutes, Smooth Motion off this time not really that different about 8ms difference but no abnormal framedrops so I'm uncertain what caused that
http://i.imgur.com/7kU6BTC.jpg

[AngelGraves13]

Reconstructing Chroma with a 10-bit file is too taxing on your GPU. Your render time should be lower than 41.71ms or you will lose sync and if it's much higher than that, then it will be a stuttering mess and finally a slideshow.

How does it perform with Jinc?

[Oguignant]

Hi i found a solution to my problem of a lot of noise in old remastered movies. With ffdshow + blur & NR. Applying only a little gradual denoise (set to 40) gives a good result and the loss of quality is acceptable. Of all the options I tried, I think the best way to reduce noise in old movies.

I hope that it would be useful to someone. :)

[WolframRhodium]

There's a new downscaling algorithm presented in "Rapid, Detail-Preserving Image Downscaling (http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=2980179.2980239)", which seems to have better performance and result compared to SSIM.

Will it be in madvr's downscaler list in the future?

[EncodedMango]

How does it perform with Jinc?
Jinc seems to have made no difference, same rendering times.

[Georgel]

@sidspyker disable smooth motion can at least reduce 10 ms

I agree with this.

Smooth motion doesn't do much either way and can increase render times considerably when compared to having it turned off

For me on 2 different cards using Ordered vs Error Diffusion 2 didn't do much of a difference, about same render times, or likely the difference is in the order of 1-2ms, not ~10ms. GTX 970 is very strong, using Error Diffusion shouldn't pose a problem.

I noticed something. with the latest madVR and MPC-HC my CTRL+J screen OSD thingy flashes sometimes. I use it to compare different settings and it keeps flashing sometimes, like the subtitle flashing problem. How do we fix this, or is it a known bug?

[AngelGraves13]

Jinc seems to have made no difference, same rendering times.

Are you using LAV filters? Have you enabled DXVA Copy Back?

[Asmodian]

Smooth motion doesn't do much either way and can increase render times considerably when compared to having it turned off

For me on 2 different cards using Ordered vs Error Diffusion 2 didn't do much of a difference, about same render times, or likely the difference is in the order of 1-2ms, not ~10ms. GTX 970 is very strong, using Error Diffusion shouldn't pose a problem.

Smooth motion and dithering impact each other. ED dithering has a bigger performance hit when using smooth motion because there are a lot more frames that need dithering.

Smooth motion is very important when using a 60Hz display for anything but 30fps video.

[Neo-XP]

For me on 2 different cards using Ordered vs Error Diffusion 2 didn't do much of a difference, about same render times, or likely the difference is in the order of 1-2ms, not ~10ms. GTX 970 is very strong, using Error Diffusion shouldn't pose a problem.

Smooth motion and dithering impact each other. ED dithering has a bigger performance hit when using smooth motion because there are a lot more frames that need dithering.

For 1080p content on 1080p screen

Without SM : 24ms -> 25.5ms
With SM : 25.5ms -> 28ms

For 1080p content on 4K screen (upscaled by madVR)

Without SM : 23ms -> 27.5ms
With SM : 25.5ms -> 35ms

So yes, Smooth Motion has a fairly significant impact on performance with Error Diffusion 2 in 4K, and the 1-2ms difference is only for 1080p content on 1080p screen without SM.

Edit : The framerate of the source material was 23.976fps and the refresh rate of the screens 60Hz.

[StinDaWg]

I have these resolutions set for madVR to switch to... 1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p25, 1080p50, 1080p59, 1080p60

If I'm using ffdshow raw (for SVP) madVR always switches to 1080p23 if the source fps is 29.97 or 30. I do not have this issue when I'm not using ffdshow raw.

If I use the MPC-HC built in switcher with ffdshow raw instead of madVR it works fine.

Has anyone seen this happen before?

I would just use MPC-HC switcher, but it doesn't work properly with madVRs film mode deinterlace. It doesn't switch to 23 hz.
I see a lot of people using ffdshow with madVR in here. No one else has this issue?

[cork_OS]

I see a lot of people using ffdshow with madVR in here. No one else has this issue?
I suppose madVR or MPC-HC sometimes can't correctly get framerate info from LAVfilters or another decoder/splitter when ffdshow raw is used. I've seen this when using SVP on some DVD videos.

[Asmodian]

I suppose madVR or MPC-HC sometimes can't correctly get framerate info from LAVfilters or another decoder/splitter when ffdshow raw is used. I've seen this when using SVP on some DVD videos.

ffdshow always blocks all communication between LAV and madVR. :(

[StinDaWg]

So basically there is no workaround and I need to manually edit/delete resolutions in madVR every time I want to use SVP? :eek:

[ryrynz]

ffdshow always blocks all communication between LAV and madVR. :(

Still waiting for the day I don't need ffdshow raw any more. Having similar functionality built into madVR suppotring both Avisynth+/Vapoursynth would be great.

[Georgel]

Smooth motion and dithering impact each other. ED dithering has a bigger performance hit when using smooth motion because there are a lot more frames that need dithering.

Smooth motion is very important when using a 60Hz display for anything but 30fps video.

My display is 75Hz from factory, and smooth motion has more impact and doesn't have much effect visually. Videos that are 24 fps or 23.xx will still look jumpy if the objects is moving across the screen and it's moving too fast.

[Asmodian]

What you notice is simply low frame rate video but there is another issue caused by frame time mismatch.

With a 75 Hz display and 23.976 fps video each frame wants to be displayed for 41.71 ms but Vsync is every 13.3 ms. This means that most frames are displayed for 40 ms but every ~8 frames one frame is displayed for 53.3 ms. This isn't too bad, only 33% longer, you might not notice it but it isn't ideal.

The effect is worse at 60 Hz, with half the frames displayed for 33.3 ms and the other half displayed for 50 ms, 50% longer. This is quite visible (to me at least) as uneven choppiness or judder, even worse than normal low frame rate video.

Smooth motion allows madVR to display every frame for exactly 41.71ms. :)

edit: with 29.970 fps video on your 75 Hz display you get a similar effect to 23.976 fps video on a 60 Hz display. Half the frames are displayed for 26.67 ms and the other half for 40 ms, 50% longer.

[EncodedMango]

Are you using LAV filters? Have you enabled DXVA Copy Back?
Yeah LAV. I'm using DXVA Native not copy-back. I have no clue if I should be using CB instead

[AngelGraves13]

Yeah LAV. I'm using DXVA Native not copy-back. I have no clue if I should be using CB instead

DXVA 2 Native should NEVER be used with madvr.

[EncodedMango]

DXVA 2 Native should NEVER be used with madvr.
Good to know, I was using CUVID until recently, switched to DXVA only recently to try out.

[Kotik]

DXVA 2 Native should NEVER be used with madvr.

Is there a specific reason why CB is a better choice compared to Native?I notice people almost always prefer CB, i have been using Native myself and dont recall any issues. What are the advantages that CB offers?

[huhn]

with nvidia chroma will suffer with DXVA native.

rendertimes are a bit higher if DXVA chroma scaling isn't used. madVR is doing some additional computing.

CB work with every other filter like SVP, ffdshow raw, xy vsfilter and stuff like that native isn't working here.

neo-xp
bicubic is faster than lanczos 3

[StinDaWg]

Also film mode deinterlacing (ivtc) doesn't work with dxva native.

[huhn]

yeah black boarder detection doesn't work completely the list is long.

[Q-the-STORM]

Good to know, I was using CUVID until recently, switched to DXVA only recently to try out.

You should also not use CUVID btw :P
if you're gonna use anything, use CB...

[Neo-XP]

neo-xp
bicubic is faster than lanczos 3

For less than 1ms difference, it is worth it to use Lanczos instead of Bicubic IMO. For instance, NGU-low for chroma doubling adds ~10ms.

As already said, there are several ways for madshi to change that :

1. Make Bicubic60 AR the "Low" quality choice for chroma doubling, as it should be, and Lanczos3 AR the "Normal" one.

As NGU for chroma doubling is overkill and should only be available for highest quality settings only.

2. An option to link the chroma doubling algorithm with the upscaling algorithm used after doubling, like it was before.

As I can't afford NGU for luma quadrupling, I use Lanczos3 AR after doubling with NGU, and it seems logic to use the same algorithm for chroma doubling, at least for me :p

3. Replace Bicubic60 AR by Lanczos3 AR.

I prefer when users can choose themselves, but those two algorithms have the same impact on performance (by 1ms). Lanczos performs better (sharper) and is closer to NGU than Bicubic.

I can't wait to test the changes made to NGU on v0.91.2, but I need to be able to use the same configuration (Lanczos 3 AR for chroma doubling and disable image quadrupling) to compare.

[huhn]

i think spline is better than lanczos in all cases but what ever...

4 don't waste development time on this.

[jkauff]

I think these posts about minor differences in settings are not helping madshi get where he wants to go.

As I understand it, he's working toward a Version 1.0 that will be easy to configure and will work best for MOST users in MOST situations MOST of the time. That seems to be his focus at the moment. Just like we have a madVR [debug].ax file in the package today, he could give us a madVR [expert].ax file that would have the old complex UI with all the choices for those who need/want complete control. That should satisfy most of the posters who can't live with the v0.91 approach. I think that would work better than hiding that functionality behind a tab or button labeled "Advanced", as they do in Handbrake.

We should be helping madshi by telling him if the new UI is simple and clear enough; if the choices he's made for default settings are best for the casual/new user; and what additional changes would be useful in a 1.0 release. All the "THESE settings look best for MY needs" posts are probably just distracting, and certainly aren't moving madVR forward.

[Telion]

We should be helping madshi by telling him <...> if the choices he's made for default settings are best for the casual/new user
But there is no casual/new users on this forum, so we really can't judge on this topic unbiased. The only thing one can definitely assert is that for the casual user the dumber, the better. So just throw out as many settings as you can and it would be OK for them. Everyone else should just stick to profiles and use scripting for every possible video they would eventually view.

[Neo-XP]

I think these posts about minor differences in settings are not helping madshi get where he wants to go.

As I understand it, he's working toward a Version 1.0 that will be easy to configure and will work best for MOST users in MOST situations MOST of the time. That seems to be his focus at the moment. Just like we have a madVR [debug].ax file in the package today, he could give us a madVR [expert].ax file that would have the old complex UI with all the choices for those who need/want complete control. That should satisfy most of the posters who can't live with the v0.91 approach. I think that would work better than hiding that functionality behind a tab or button labeled "Advanced", as they do in Handbrake.

We should be helping madshi by telling him if the new UI is simple and clear enough; if the choices he's made for default settings are best for the casual/new user; and what additional changes would be useful in a 1.0 release. All the "THESE settings look best for MY needs" posts are probably just distracting, and certainly aren't moving madVR forward.

I don't think madshi will give us the old UI back unfortunately, and a madVR [expert].ax file is not a good solution IMO, because it will require more work to develop two UI in parallel.

As for the new UI, I've already proposed something and another user too :

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1789617#post1789617
http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1789646#post1789646

I don't think there are "best settings" for the casual/new user, because the choice mostly depends on the power of the GPU used to run madVR and the user's taste.

madshi could make some general presets for those users, while leaving all the available settings for advanced users in a clear, but not limited UI.

For instance, on the same page, you could choose the type of GPU (Very Low - Low - Medium - High - Very High - Ultra), the type of image that you like (Soft - Normal - Sharp) and the type of content (Anime - Film), and MadVR would choose the right settings for you if you don't know anything about scalers and renderers and don't want to bother to test by yourself every possibility.

[ThurstonX]

But there is no casual/new users on this forum, so we really can't judge on this topic unbiased. The only thing one can definitely assert is that for the casual user the dumber, the better. So just throw out as many settings as you can and it would be OK for them. Everyone else should just stick to profiles and use scripting for every possible video they would eventually view.

LOL. I'm definitely a "casual" user, if that means I don't do a lot of detailed image comparisons, going through most/all possible combinations, yada yada yada. Sometimes I enjoy reading those posts herein, but other than trying various algorithms and combinations on actual video content I'm planning to watch, and getting the best bang for the buck in terms of quality-vs.-resource usage (render and queue stats, mostly), I don't spend too much time fiddling. Now, when madshi introduces something new like NGU, I do more comparisons and see what I can see. So far I'm pretty impressed with NGU, and was really happy to see I could run it at Luma High and Chroma Med. (IIRC) on a Blu-ray rip onto an inexpensive LG 1080 LED TV (so, not too taxing).

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only "casual" lurker in this and the LAV thread. And no, you may definitely NOT say that "for the casual user the dumber, the better. So just throw out as many settings as you can and it would be OK for them." I enjoy twiddlin' the knobs to experiment, when time permits.

Just sayin'.