madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

we don't know what is more accurate at the moment. could be heavy dynamic contrast applying by the screen in HDR mode.

[brazen1]

No downside as long as you don't need a more recent driver for games or whatever reason. For 3D, you need the workaround I posted earlier in the thread. That's the only way to get 100% reliable 3D playback with nVidia as far as I can see. 3D also needs FSE, at least here.

You have to enable 3D manually before every playback to be sure it's on. I use a batch file launched from my iPad when I select the 3D button in iRule. It enables 3D on nVidia using MCE Controller and selects my 3D calibration on the projector. The register file added by Madshi after we had this discussion isn't enough for me, but it might work for you.

About a year ago, I noticed certain file playback turned off stereoscopic system wide for some strange bizarre unknown reason to me. HDR is particular since it never happened prior. So, I too wrote a script that launches via Kodi when starting a 3D title only via nvstlink.exe. For some reason the 3D setup in madVR isn't 100% reliable but this with that works perfectly. The registry file in madVR is only to set stereoscopic settings because NCP was having driver probs doing it at the time. I still use it.

[AngelGraves13]

The issue is Dolby discs, I have a few Dolby Vision UHD blurays and they don't look as good as they could.

There is a second video track included in the stream, it is only 1920x1080 and black and white. It looks like extra information for shadows and highlights but nothing we have now can use it. They still look pretty good in HDR10 fallback mode though.

I have been unable to get HDR content to look as good in SDR mode as it does in HDR mode, at least on my OLED TV. It can look pretty good but putting the TV into HDR mode does improve highlights, shadows too but highlights are the biggest change.

Chroma is 1/4 size of video under 4:2:0, so it would be 1080p. The separate video stream is the Dolby Vision layer, which cannot be decoded (yet).

I hope we'll be able to decode sometime in the future for better HDR.

[SamuriHL]

Well I tried my hand at down scaling uhd to 1080p today. It did not go as planned. I'm not sure what settings I need to use in order to make it work smoothly with my 6 gb 1060. I think I had chroma set to ngu aa low. I tried setting HDR to SDR conversion. I did not try messing with dithering so maybe I'll try that next. My rendering times were in the mid-40s and I was dropping frames quite a bit. The quality was quite exceptional so if I can get it stable that will be a really nice thing. My ancient 3770 is probably getting a little tired LOL.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[huhn]

did you change your power settings to something else than optimal?

[SamuriHL]

No that's set fine. I'll have to mess with it some more and see what I can come up with.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[x7007]

0.70.2-83 Nightly (December 13, 2017)
in case anyone missed that.

[x7007]

When I am watching 1080p MKV movies, what the best mode should my TV be ?

YCbCr 4:4:4 8 bit
YCbCr 4:4:4 10 bit
YCbCr 4:4:4 12 bit

RGB 8 bit
RGB 10 bit
RGB 12 bit

for 1080p I'm using the resolution changer in MadVR so it will change to 1920x1080p when it detect 1080p movie. in this resolution it changes from 3840x2160 8 bit RGB to 1920x1080 12 bit RGB.

Because windows automatically detect RGB 12 bit for no reason I can imagine by NVidia Default Color setting.
As for as it go for HDR mode the best is YCbCr 4:2:2 for 12 bit obvious reasons

I think I need to change it also for 1080p Movies and not only for HDR Movies and Games.

[huhn]

full range RGB is the best if your end device support it properly. this counts for HDR too.

10 bit can be better if your Tv properly support it so jsut stick to RGB and get to 10 bit if possible.

send 12 bit doesn't give you any with the current madVR version madVR it self is limited to 10 bit output to the GPU driver.

[Asmodian]

I use:
SDR: RGB 8 bit
HDR: RGB 12 bit (my drivers do not offer a 10 bit option)

RGB is ideal for madVR. Technically the GPU using RGB 10 or 12 bit with madVR set to 10 bit is the highest quality mode with madVR. For the few HDR demos that are over 30 fps I used RGB 8 bit (due to the limits of HDMI 2.0) but it required tricking the drivers to get HDR on with 8 bit output.

[x7007]

full range RGB is the best if your end device support it properly. this counts for HDR too.

10 bit can be better if your Tv properly support it so jsut stick to RGB and get to 10 bit if possible.

send 12 bit doesn't give you any with the current madVR version madVR it self is limited to 10 bit output to the GPU driver.

Yes, that's what the TV or NVidia drivers decide to choose when you change resolution.

For HDR NVidia decide something wrong as I tested the last time, that's what I am trying to understand if it's the same for SDR because I'm also changing resolution and it's not 4K . it's like totally big mess. because they are 2 different things and they both doesn't work out of the box.

I use:
SDR: RGB 8 bit
HDR: RGB 12 bit (my drivers do not offer a 10 bit option)

RGB is ideal for madVR. Technically the GPU using RGB 10 or 12 bit with madVR set to 10 bit is the highest quality mode with madVR. For the few HDR demos that are over 30 fps I used RGB 8 bit (due to the limits of HDMI 2.0) but it required tricking the drivers to get HDR on with 8 bit output.

the HDMI is set to PC INPUT all the times , so Chroma 4:4:4 is enabled when NVidia is set to AUTO (Default Color setting) for 4K or 1080p without HDR.
When I'm using my TV in 4K 3840x2160 it uses 8 bit RGB.
When I watch 1080p using 1920x1080 resolution it changes to 1080p 12 bit RGB.
When I watch HDR it is 4K 3840x2160 10 bit RGB Which the last time we checked caused issue. ( White pixels on black screen ) which was fixed when changing in NVidia specific to YCbCr 4:2:2 10 bit.

So what you saying is it's ok to use RGB for SDR so it seems ok whichever bit it wants to use , MadVR uses 10 bit anyway, so again it won't hurt in that matter so we are fine :)

[huhn]

nvidia HDR is broken with current driver 390.x is suppose to fix that issue.

[x7007]

nvidia HDR is broken with current driver 390.x is suppose to fix that issue.

I can only say Hallllloiaa

[madshi]

"Current driver 390.x"? I don't see 390.x drivers on Nvidia's homepage. If you got them from somewhere, it might not be the official 390 release yet?

[Wolfberry]

nvidia HDR is broken with current driver 390.x is suppose to fix that issue.
I think what huhn wants to say is "Nvidia HDR is broken with current driver, 390.x (future version) is supposed to fix that issue."

[madshi]

You're right, I misinterpreted.

[huhn]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31TlPuobyhQ&feature=youtu.be&t=67

one day i will learn it too

[Ver Greeneyes]

Well I tried my hand at down scaling uhd to 1080p today.

If you're downscaling to 50% or less you could try enabling the "scale chroma separately, if it saves performance" option in the "trade quality for performance" tab. That will make it just use the chroma data as-is and only downscale the luma channels (instead of first upscaling chroma, then downscaling everything together). The result might be slightly worse overall but I doubt it will make much difference, and it should be much faster.

[SamuriHL]

If you're downscaling to 50% or less you could try enabling the "scale chroma separately, if it saves performance" option in the "trade quality for performance" tab. That will make it just use the chroma data as-is and only downscale the luma channels (instead of first upscaling chroma, then downscaling everything together). The result might be slightly worse overall but I doubt it will make much difference, and it should be much faster.Thanks I'll add that to the list for when I get back to testing later today.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[el Filou]

@SamuriHL With my 1050 Ti @ 1920x1080, I use Lanczos 4-tap for 24-30 fps UHD, and Bicubic 150 for 50/60 fps.
I concur with Ver Greeneyes: enable "scale chroma separately", you'll gain much more by being able to use a higher quality luma downscaling than by upscaling then downscaling chroma.

[SamuriHL]

Will definitely try it out. I've only got one disc I can play with right now and it has read errors (gotta love UHD) but I am able to play it directly from the disc. It's not super critical for me to get this working...more an academic thing as I'm still on a 1080p plasma. But it's fun to see what can be done with these things. :D Getting it stable would be nuts LOL

[el Filou]

4K HDR converted and scaled by madVR on my GT60 set at maximum brightness is still pretty amazing. :)
I plan to keep enjoying my plasma at least until OLEDs that can do 2160/12-bit/120 Hz/RGB on HDMI 2.1 are released :D

[SamuriHL]

I've been wanting to wait, myself, for various reasons but I may have screwed myself on this deal. Because I have a large library of 3D blu-rays, and actually enjoy the experience, moving to 4K is problematic at best. A 2016 LG OLED would work, but, as you mention, HDMI 2.1 would be highly useful. ARGH! LOL Not sure what my ultimate solution will be but right now I have no money for anything so it's all going to have to wait.

The quality I got off the UHD disc was pretty good even compared to the native blu-ray. It just kept dropping frames so I'm going to play around with the settings and see what it looks like once I get it stable. That'll probably be this afternoon when I get to that.

[SamuriHL]

I was wrong on my rendering times. Even with the tweaks suggested I'm getting 50-60ms and it's dropping frames like a klutz. I'm not sure I'll get this stable on that machine. I'm honestly not sure why either. I went down to bicubic150 even though it's a 23fps movie. I'm going to keep messing with it but I don't think my machine likes this very much. LOL

EDIT:

Ok, moron, RCA and anti-ringing is probably NOT helpful to rendering times on downscaling! LMAO! I'm down into the 20's now that I turned that off. I've got NGU AA medium for chroma and lanczos4 for LUMA. Working MUCHHHHHHHHHH better now LMAO!

EDIT2:

There we go. Rendering down to average 15 or so. Turned error diffusion 2 back on, set luma to jinc. Looks damn good, too! Very nice!

[Razoola]

4K HDR converted and scaled by madVR on my GT60 set at maximum brightness is still pretty amazing. :)
I plan to keep enjoying my plasma at least until OLEDs that can do 2160/12-bit/120 Hz/RGB on HDMI 2.1 are released :D

I dont think OLEDs have much lifespam left, they gonna be overtaken with micro LED. Aparently Samsung is gonna show a 150 inch one at CES in a few weeks.

[SamuriHL]

I dont think OLEDs have much lifespam left, they gonna be overtaken with micro LED. Aparently Samsung is gonna show a 150 inch one at CES in a few weeks.

Fascinating. That's something I need to look into then. I was under the impression OLED rivaled my plasma screen.

[Asmodian]

RCA and anti-ringing is probably NOT helpful to rendering times on downscaling!

RCA is very hard on 4K. To use even medium quality with 4K (streaming 4K needs it) I have to turn almost everything else down with an overclocked Titan X (Pascal). :(

Still, it is worth it since Jinc chroma upscaling is fine and YouTube content does not have fine chroma details anyway. :)

[SamuriHL]

RCA is very hard on 4K. To use even medium quality with 4K (streaming 4K needs it) I have to turn almost everything else down with an overclocked Titan X (Pascal). :(

Still, it is worth it since Jinc chroma upscaling is fine and YouTube content does not have fine chroma details anyway. :)

Yea that was nuts. I need a faster machine for sure. I just don't have the money to build it right now. When I got the 1060 I hadn't really considered up/down scaling 4K content as I'm still on a 1080p plasma. But it's interesting nonetheless. Guess we'll have to wait til better hardware is out before we can crank things up for 4K. LOL

[ryrynz]

Fascinating. That's something I need to look into then. I was under the impression OLED rivaled my plasma screen.It doesn't rival it, it surpasses it in every possible area. OLED will improve and isn't going anywhere. Micro LED is still LED technology and has the same limitations. Not applicable to MadVR.

[mclingo]

after 5 more pc hangs in two days i'm going to give my nvidia 1050 one more go, is the 385.28 version the latest driver where everything works ok?, wont be gaming so not interested in any gaming based issues.

[mclingo]

hi, those with nvidia card getting hours between frame drops / repeats, can you tell me exactly what I'm doing wrong or point me to full instructions how to setup MADVR with NVIDIA card. I've set custom res in MADVR and it seems to make no difference at all.

see attached screen dump of CONTROL-J

[mclingo]

think i've got it, i changed my horizontal timing in MADVR to 1276 and I now have near perfect 23,976 ! - now to test 3D MVC :)

whats the best rendering I can expect for an NVIDIA 1050 (non ti version) - same as my RX550 or can I push it further?

[mclingo]

3D is a not go, worked once now doesnt work at all, any tricks to getting 3D MVC working with NVIDIA card?

[HillieSan]

@mclingo
How much Watts is your Power Supply Unit (PSU)? Just to be sure that the AMD RX gets enough power.

[mclingo]

@mclingo
How much Watts is your Power Supply Unit (PSU)? Just to be sure that the AMD RX gets enough power.

700 watt, should be more than enough.

Got an odd problem with MADVR now, I did get 3D working in MPC but was not working in KODI DS so I reinstalled DS, still no joy, new install of DS, still no joy so I decided to reinstalled MADVR.

After reinstalling MADVR i can no longer get the custom modes tab, it flckers up and then disapears when I choose the display modes option, any ideas?

edit, completely stripped out MADVR and tried both latest and last version, still no custom modes tab, whats going on?

edit 2 - rebooted my receiver, back now, wierdness...

[HillieSan]

The PSU should be fine.

I also have problems with Kodi DS. I gave up on Kodi DS some time ago.

[mclingo]

The PSU should be fine.

I also have problems with Kodi DS. I gave up on Kodi DS some time ago.

I love KODI DS.

Ive given up on the Nvidia 1050 again, 3D is just all over the place, sometimes it works, sometimes not with no reason at all, sometimes it works but there is an odd paralax shift like L/R are the wrong way around, which ever way around you have your glasses.

Black screens all over the place, loss of HDMI handshake which I also get with the AMD a bit, nail in the coffin was a system hang, was hoping the NVIDIA card would be more stable but sadly not.

Just dont think we're going to have a fully stable system on Windows 10 for a while if at all now.

for the moment i'll live with a few system hangups but with everything working as it should be, 2D/3D/HDR all working perfectly in KODI DS with my AMD card.

I've moved back to an older AMD driver which I got far fewer system hangs on 17.10.2

[SamuriHL]

I've no issue with 3D on my 1060. I don't use FSE but instead use windowed mode. The only issue I've had was with Polar Express 3D but PowerDVD and the Xbox One both gave me the same issues so I'm not sure what's happening with that disc. Everything else is flawless. Watched Force Awakens 3D mkv last week before going to see Last Jedi. But I'm using madvr/lav filters in JRiver MC. Very stable combination.

[mclingo]

I've no issue with 3D on my 1060. I don't use FSE but instead use windowed mode. The only issue I've had was with Polar Express 3D but PowerDVD and the Xbox One both gave me the same issues so I'm not sure what's happening with that disc. Everything else is flawless. Watched Force Awakens 3D mkv last week before going to see Last Jedi. But I'm using madvr/lav filters in JRiver MC. Very stable combination.

i will probably give it another go with the next driver release if it fixes all the current issues with HDR etc.

Cheers.

[brazen1]

3D is a not go, worked once now doesnt work at all, any tricks to getting 3D MVC working with NVIDIA card?

Turn on stereoscopic globally and in the NCP. Some of us create scripts to automate this since some playback scenarios of 2D turn these settings off regardless of madVR 3D settings recently discussed here. Works every time without fail using NVidia here.

[chros]

I just checked it 2 weeks ago, when you first started to talk about it:
yes, you need FSE on Win8 for 10bit, and it only works with new path not the old path using dx9, and using dx10.
Thanks!
I just double checked this: 10bit output only works with d3d11 FSE on Win8 (not with either of d3d9 paths or neither in any of windowed modes).
Sorry for being misleading.

[chros]

I love KODI DS.
You don't need any fancy frontend, just a good remote (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=175007) for MPC-BE/HC, but it's your choice.

[KaBoS]

I dont think you system has the power to run MADVR at whatever settings you have it set to maybe.

A few things to check.

- Are you outputting in 1080p or 4k?
- try setting all scaling to lanczos
- Make sure you've got your display modes set correctly, if you are not
using 4k try just putting 1080p23 down in the display modes.

Also, play a movie and press CONTROL+J and take screen shot (F5), post the results.

Hi thanks for your reply

outputting 4K So here's the problem

Yes true after many test (Intel ,NUC6CAYH) not power to run madVR on outputting 4K

- I change settings all scaling to lanczos

- And changed GPU settings to 1080p

Everything is good and I am satisfied with the results

(Screen shot , 1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nd6uo60h6fh37y1/after%20dit%201080.JPG?dl=0) - 2 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rg71med6yvs23tu/after%20dit%201080%2003.JPG?dl=0) )

My TV not support 24p Playback and any Judder-free (I will update them soon )

But with I felt much better With Play 24p Movies with madVR :)

Now do you recommend changing any settings in madVR ?

I change settings all scaling to (lanczos) Is this good or change it ?


Thanks .

[ajp_anton]

It doesn't rival it, it surpasses it in every possible area. OLED will improve and isn't going anywhere. Micro LED is still LED technology and has the same limitations. Not applicable to MadVR.

Define "LED technology". OLED is also using LED's, but they are organic, which gives them some disadvantages.
Micro-LED pretty much takes the best of both worlds and none of the bad things.

[mclingo]

Hi thanks for your reply

outputting 4K So here's the problem

Yes true after many test (Intel ,NUC6CAYH) not power to run madVR on outputting 4K

- I change settings all scaling to lanczos

- And changed GPU settings to 1080p

Everything is good and I am satisfied with the results

(Screen shot , 1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/nd6uo60h6fh37y1/after%20dit%201080.JPG?dl=0) - 2 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rg71med6yvs23tu/after%20dit%201080%2003.JPG?dl=0) )

My TV not support 24p Playback and any Judder-free (I will update them soon )

But with I felt much better With Play 24p Movies with madVR :)

Now do you recommend changing any settings in madVR ?

I change settings all scaling to (lanczos) Is this good or change it ?


Thanks .

try lanczos for everything, if most of your material is 1080p and good quality you will get a very decent picture anyway.

I'm currently using lanczos for chroma up, NGU sharp medium for image up.

I have a fairly high end machine and RX550 and mine struggles with anything beyond those settings. You get diminishing returns anyway the higher you go and if you are sat 8ft from your TV you wont see any difference anyway.

[d3rd3vil]

I hope we'll be able to decode sometime in the future for better HDR.

Yeah we need a godlike programmer to reverse-engineer the stuff somehow. Doesnt look good at the moment :(

[ryrynz]

Define "LED technology". OLED is also using LED's, but they are organic, which gives them some disadvantages.
Micro-LED pretty much takes the best of both worlds and none of the bad things.You know what what I mean, this is a standard term.
Best of both worlds? The response time and per pixel control? Nah.

[HillieSan]

HDR works on AMD. At least on Vega with today's crimson adrenalin drivers on fall's creators update, using PotPlayer.
Switching and playback, lav needs to be set to DXVA2 copyback or native d3d11 doesn't work. Not 100% stable though, switching between hdr and sdr (stopping playback or minimizing from fullscreen) can lock the player and/or os.

What vega do you have? Can you use the NGU sharp very high settings + other enhancements? Why don't you use D3D11 in LAV instead of DXVA2 copyback?

[strumf666]

Vega64, using D3D11 would freeze after a few frames, not sure why, as it works for SDR. I am pretty sure NGU very high was used, without enhancements; sadly I can't retest as I don't own a 4k+HDR display, this was just a one time opportunity to test.

[leeperry]

Going back to the finer granularity matter, as much as I'd like to try 1.5 "add grain" I'd also like to try 0.15 "enhance detail" if any possible please :o