madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[actarusfleed]

a 970 doesn't have a HEVC decoder it may be barely able to do 24 with is very bad hybrd "decoder" but that's not a great result and please don't disabled dithering.

Hi Huhn,
so I'm going to change my graphic card....

What is the lowest in price nvidia graphic card that has no problem with 4K HDR HEVC files coded @60fps?

thank you

[huhn]

a used 960 4gb.
if you want VP9 10 bit you will need a 1050 ti.

[actarusfleed]

a used 960 4gb.
if you want VP9 10 bit you will need a 1050 ti.How it's possible that a 960 is superior to my actual gtx 970??

And more : what is "vp9"?

Thank you

[huhn]

vp9 is a codec mostly used by youtube it is very comparable to HEVC.

the 970 is older than the 960 so they didn't finish the decoder in time.

1060 can't do 10 bit VP9 but a 1050 ti can.

[Xorp]

Not if you are upscaling to 4K and not in general. NGU is a neural network scaler that requires a lot of processing power. It is much better suited for a gaming GPU.

Thanks, that's what I was thinking. The 540 was recently a lower-mid tier gaming part, that I was hoping could scrape by for NGU 1080->2160, but probably not. If I want a cheaper NUC to run NGU, I'll have to wait for a 560+ tier card to be included I guess.

Are there any benchmark tools that have certain tests and point systems that map well to madVR NGU performance? For example: You want a card that can achieve 2000 points in 3DMark - Ice Storm to have a good NGU experience.

[actarusfleed]

vp9 is a codec mostly used by youtube it is very comparable to HEVC.

the 970 is older than the 960 so they didn't finish the decoder in time.

1060 can't do 10 bit VP9 but a 1050 ti can.

Thank you
I imagine that a 1070ti is better of the 1050ti you suggested me.... Right?

Some other specification needed to do perfectly hevc uhd 60fps files ?

[huhn]

it can't do VP9 10 bit and you asked me for the cheapest card not a good card. but "all" cards released after the 960 and including the 960 have a HEVC decoder that can do at least 120 hz at UHD if i remember correctly.

if you need copyback decoding make sure you have 16 lanes of PCIe 3.0 available.

i would personally get a 2000 series card if you are willing to spend this much the upcoming 2060 should be in the same performance and price range with an added VP9 10 bit decoder and tensor cores which may or may not be important.

[huhn]

Thanks, that's what I was thinking. The 540 was recently a lower-mid tier gaming part, that I was hoping could scrape by for NGU 1080->2160, but probably not. If I want a cheaper NUC to run NGU, I'll have to wait for a 560+ tier card to be included I guess.

Are there any benchmark tools that have certain tests and point systems that map well to madVR NGU performance? For example: You want a card that can achieve 2000 points in 3DMark - Ice Storm to have a good NGU experience.

look at zotac zbox these are pretty much nucs with nvidia cards which are currently performing better for NGU and that's why we don't have a benchmark for this in the past a card that in AVG performed better at gaming was better for madVR this is sadly not true anymore.

an hades canyon would be an option too but they are very expensive the CPU is an total over kill but vega isn't known to perform bad with NGU. there is sadly little know about vega not a popular product to say it friendly.

let's just hope something good from AMD get's announced at CES.

[SamuriHL]

...and tensor cores which may or may not be important.

you know, for the VR madvr version. :D (Kidding, kidding...everyone calm down. LOL)

[madFloyd]

I just swapped my 1060 for a 1080ti and the NVidia drivers didn't automatically install so I guess I have to do it manually.

So I thought I'd ask, what is the recommended driver to use if your PC is just an HTPC (i.e. no gaming)? I was using 385.28 but wondering if there's a better choice at this point.

Thanks!

[actarusfleed]

it can't do VP9 10 bit...

are you talkin'about 1070 ti?

if you need copyback decoding make sure you have 16 lanes of PCIe 3.0 available.

With HEVC UHD files what is the benefit to use copyback respect D3D11?

And more to use it with Madvr .... What are the differences between GTX and RTX series?

thank you so much

[huhn]

are you talkin'about 1070 ti?

yes only cards release after the 1060 based on there chip design can do it the 1070 ti is relative new on the market but is just a 1080 with disabled cuda cores.
so all RTX cards should be able to do it 1050 ti and slower and 1080 ti have the decoder too.
With HEVC UHD files what is the benefit to use copyback respect D3D11?
copyback gives you the option to use some feature you can only use using a CPU like blackbar detection IVTC this is currently not possible with a native decoder.

And more to use it with Madvr .... What are the differences between GTX and RTX series?
RTX cards have tensor cores which are created for AI "stuff" and accelerate them massively madshi may or may not create something like a scaler or so that will need them some day.

the RTX cards are made for ray tracing that didn't really take off for now by using these tensor cores and some ray tracing cores.

[madFloyd]

My madVR is reporting "Limited Range (says upstream) when in fact my GPU, KODI SP, LAV, and MadVR are all set to full range. Is this normal for madVR (e.g. a bug etc)?

[huhn]

no because the file is limited range as it should be this is just an information what the file is and nearly all files are encoded in limited range and has nothing todo with GPU/madVR or even lavfilter settings.

changing the setting in lavfilter to full range does nothing on it's own if you would read what it is saying you would notices but for some reasons guides or people tell other to set it to full range misleading them or like the creator of the program doesn't select a proper default setting for something like this...

[madFloyd]

no because the file is limited range as it should be this is just an information what the file is and nearly all files are encoded in limited range and has nothing todo with GPU/madVR or even lavfilter settings.

changing the setting in lavfilter to full range does nothing on it's own if you would read what it is saying you would notices but for some reasons guides or people tell other to set it to full range misleading them or like the creator of the program doesn't select a proper default setting for something like this...

Thank you, that's very helpful to know!

[x7007]

Somehow NV HDR now works properly 10 bit HDR with 417.35 .. i dunno

Using Potplayer x64 set to LavFilters 71.3 . D3D11 Automatic (native)
ALL 8 bit is unchecked on Video . RGB selected 0-255 , Random Dithering . using Windowed Full Screen and not FSE . When launching it starts on windowed mode 8 bit and when I click enter to go Windowed Full screen it goes to 10 bit.
I kept Set up digital Audio HDMI : LG TV and not Off.

Nvidia control panel Use Default Color Settings , Scaling Aspect Ratio and Override the scaling mode set by games and programs Checked .

MadVR Bit set to Auto

If anyone wants to try those settings and see if it also works for him.

I am not sure what makes it work, but it works.

[j82k]

NV HDR with 417.35 works only if madVR is set to 10-bit or auto and it switches to 10-bit. Nvidia CP settings don't matter. NV HDR doesn't trigger with madVR set to 8-bit. I mentioned this before and find this really weird.

[danann]

Make an empty folder called "DontRenderAfterStop" in the madVR directory.

However it doesn't stop forever, so it may not work for your use case.
Yeah, I need something more like Don't Render After Pause.
Thanks for the reply though.

I wonder if there's a reason for madVR to continually render frames when no other renderer/player I tried does that while paused/stopped. It's odd.

[Mano]

Is it normal that when i use madvr with xy-VSFilter and select a subtitle in video the color of the movie changed?


Default no sub
https://imgur.com/oprrT9R

With english sub selected
https://imgur.com/SSo0l5f

[SirSwede]

Three questions:

Can changing the Internet settings in the router, while madVR is playing, change the madVR- or picture settings in any way?

Can changing the name of the folder (K-Lite Codec Pack) where the madVR folder is placed, change the madVR- or picture settings in any way?

Can "NTFS Sparse Files Support" affect the file that is the program and in any way change the data to affect picture quality?

[albur]

Hi, i'm trying to watch ripped 3D MVC movies into mkv, it works fine in windowed mode but when i go fullscreen it goes really slow, i've tried to disable exclusive mode and most of the times it works fine but with exclusive mode it never works.

I have windows 10 with LAV filters and MPC HC with the last version of MadVR and my graphic card is a nvidia GTX 1060 6G

thanks

[actarusfleed]

yes only cards release after the 1060 based on there chip design can do it the 1070 ti is relative new on the market but is just a 1080 with disabled cuda cores.

Disabled cuda cores needed for internet VP9 10bit.
In my specific case where I only play UHD files taken from UHD discs and some demo clip@60hz I imagine that a 1070ti is equal to a 1080. Right?

copyback gives you the option to use some feature you can only use using a CPU like blackbar detection IVTC this is currently not possible with a native decoder.

What is the benefit of blackbar detection enabled?

And more: If I understand well to have black bar dectection I need to set LAV filters to "DXVA copyback" ?

If I set "DXVA copyback" I will have my CPU performing the video flux decoding?

In this moment my htpc has an i7-2600k @ 3.40ghz on a Sabertooh P67 mobo (rev.1 if i remember well).
This mobo surely has PCI express 2.0.

I'm going to change my graphic card but not the rest of my actual HTPC.

My question is: How is it important, with a new graphic card, to have a mobo capable of PCI Express 3.0 ??

So ... If I understand well, with my actual configuration, if I set LAV filter to DXVAcopyback decoding I'll have my i7 CPU decoding the video stream.
If it's true I can test my cpu with HEVC UHD files@60fps.

If I still see a lot of drop frames I'll be sure that a new graphic card is needed and, also with a new graphic card, I'll have no possibility to use CPU decoding with blackbar detection because my CPU is not able to decode well HEVC files @60fps.

Is it all right? or I missing something?


Thank you so much

[Warner306]

Three questions:

Can changing the Internet settings in the router, while madVR is playing, change the madVR- or picture settings in any way?

Can changing the name of the folder (K-Lite Codec Pack) where the madVR folder is placed, change the madVR- or picture settings in any way?

Can "NTFS Sparse Files Support" affect the file that is the program and in any way change the data to affect picture quality?

No to all of them. The digital data of madVR and the video remain the same.

[Warner306]

Hi, i'm trying to watch ripped 3D MVC movies into mkv, it works fine in windowed mode but when i go fullscreen it goes really slow, i've tried to disable exclusive mode and most of the times it works fine but with exclusive mode it never works.

I have windows 10 with LAV filters and MPC HC with the last version of MadVR and my graphic card is a nvidia GTX 1060 6G

thanks

Post of a picture of the OSD (Ctrl + J) and post it here. What are your rendering times and is the GPU switching correctly to 1080p24?

[Warner306]

Disabled cuda cores needed for internet VP9 10bit.
In my specific case where I only play UHD files taken from UHD discs and some demo clip@60hz I imagine that a 1070ti is equal to a 1080. Right?



What is the benefit of blackbar detection enabled?

And more: If I understand well to have black bar dectection I need to set LAV filters to "DXVA copyback" ?

If I set "DXVA copyback" I will have my CPU performing the video flux decoding?

In this moment my htpc has an i7-2600k @ 3.40ghz on a Sabertooh P67 mobo (rev.1 if i remember well).
This mobo surely has PCI express 2.0.

I'm going to change my graphic card but not the rest of my actual HTPC.

My question is: How is it important, with a new graphic card, to have a mobo capable of PCI Express 3.0 ??

So ... If I understand well, with my actual configuration, if I set LAV filter to DXVAcopyback decoding I'll have my i7 CPU decoding the video stream.
If it's true I can test my cpu with HEVC UHD files@60fps.

If I still see a lot of drop frames I'll be sure that a new graphic card is needed and, also with a new graphic card, I'll have no possibility to use CPU decoding with blackbar detection because my CPU is not able to decode well HEVC files @60fps.

Is it all right? or I missing something?


Thank you so much

The CPU doesn't do any decoding with DXVA2 copy-back. You might want black bar detection if you had a scope, 2.35:1 aspect ratio projector screen and needed to crop black bars and zoom the image with madVR's zoom control. If don't need to crop black bars, this wouldn't be necessary.

PCIe 2.0 might only be an issue if you needed to use DXVA2 copy-back decoding with 4K content. Outside of that, the performance difference could be negligible to non-existent compared to PCIe 3.0. PCIe 2.0 x16 still provides more than enough bandwidth for new GPUs. But I would still buy a new motherboard if I was building a new PC.

[JackBauer]

I had FSE working, with D3D11 going to 10-bit.

Somehow in my figuring out HDR to SDR mapping (still lost there, but that's another problem)... I have managed to no longer get D3D11 to 10-bit and full screen exclusive mode working.

I have it enabled in MadVR.

I can post the whole log somewhere, but maybe someone has some ideas of what's going on without that?

Thank you :)

Edit: I have it working with 10-bit D3D11 in MPC-HC, but still going 8-bit "windowed" in full screen in Zoom Player. Can't figure out why it worked before and it's gone sideways now.

Edit 2: Fixed; documenting for others:

Update: Nvidia hotfix released yesterday (two weeks newer than WHQL released earlier on 12/12)... Fixes this. It also addressed an issue where my monitor wouldn't enter sleep mode with my DP connection. https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/4758



00000676.119 Render CDirect3D::IsMediaPlayerFullscreen(self: 1753F1C8, myRect: 0, 0, 3840, 2160; monitorRect: 0, 0, 3840, 2160) -> yes
00000676.374 Render D3D11 fullscreen windowed (8 bit)
00000676.376 Render covered by some windows
00000676.378 Render madVR window [madVR] {0,0,3840,2160}

... and then near the very bottom of the log...

00013072.428 Creator CVideoRenderer::DisableExclusiveMode(disable: +);
00013072.434 Creator CVideoRenderer::DisableExclusiveMode() -> +
00013072.438 Creator CVideoRenderer destructor;

[Rectal Prolapse]

What exact values do you have in madVR for display resolutions switching?

My display mode string:

1080p47, 1080p24, 1080p59, 1080p60, 1080p50

I had to remove 1080p24 to get 23.976 hz content to use the 47.952 hz resolution I made.

[ntropy]

What madVR settings should be used to effectively utilize the 500 nits of brightness on the 2017 iMac's display when playing HDR content? And is video on the iMac 10bit or 8bit?

https://www.apple.com/ca/imac/specs/

I suggest 8bit and “this display is already calibrated” to DCI-P3.

Is there a way to get the blacks more consistent on the iMac screen with madVR, or is that just content issues? There's a spectrum from milky (greyish) blacks to rich blacks that I see in HDR content, with Goodfellas on the extreme milky end, and 2001: a space odyssey having really rich dark blacks in space at the other end. Other content with milky-ish blacks is Westworld S2 and The Last Jedi. I thought it was just a star-field problem when I saw it in The Last Jedi, but 2001: a space odyssey proved that wrong with it's super black space around the stars. Is there a way to measure black levels in the .m2ts streams so I can say 2001 is x and Jedi is y and that's why Jedi looks milky-er?

[chros]

My display mode string:

1080p47, 1080p24, 1080p59, 1080p60, 1080p50

I had to remove 1080p24 to get 23.976 hz content to use the 47.952 hz resolution I made.

What's the initial refresh rate of the display when you turn it on? If 47p then try to set it to something different, e. g. 60Hz, before you start playing content. That is how my custom 23p mode works, that I wrote about a week ago, I also have to manually switch to a different mode. I wonder if it solves the problem for you as well.

[SirSwede]

Two questions:

Running madVR on a desktop PC, as a HTPC, as the only thing you are running on that PC (along with MPC-HC, with LAV Filters (cuvid) and ReClock, is any other hardware than the GPU affecting how the picture is displayed and the quality of it?

If you use the same TV with the same picture settings, the same madVR, MPC-HC and LAV filter settings, the same HDMI-cable and the same PC, but change the graphics card from a GT630 GGDR5 to a GT740 GDDR5 (using the same drivers if that is possible), how similar a picture, would you be able to produce on your TV?

:thanks:

[el Filou]

The very purpose of madVR is to bypass most of the graphics card driver's video picture processing to guarantee a consistent picture quality.
In your described scenario you would have exactly the same quality.

[brazen1]

Is this a trick question? There would be zero difference imo.

Upgrading a video card provides more capability. If you don't utilize the capability, nothing has changed. In other words, I doubt replacing a GT630 with a GT740 and playing the same non-problematic title is going to look any different than it did provided all you did is swap the cards.

[SirSwede]

The very purpose of madVR is to bypass most of the graphics card driver's video picture processing to guarantee a consistent picture quality.
In your described scenario you would have exactly the same quality.

Is this a trick question? There would be zero difference imo.

Upgrading a video card provides more capability. If you don't utilize the capability, nothing has changed. In other words, I doubt replacing a GT630 with a GT740 and playing the same non-problematic title is going to look any different than it did provided all you did is swap the cards.

Cheers lads!

No, not a trick question! :p

Yeah, I have a DELL Dimension 9150 (with a GT630) as a HTPC, since all the material I watch is just 720p anyway. The picture is great, btw!

I also have a DELL Dimension E521 (with a GT740) in reserve.

I wonder what would happen, to the picture, if I needed to change out the graphics card and take the GT740 and put in the Dimension 9150?

Or the other way around (what would happen to the picture) if I needed to take the GT630 and put in the Dimension E521?

Due to their age, I mean - and using the same TV.

What you guys are basically saying is, that - should either of these scenarios occur, I would still have the same picture with the same TV?

:thanks:

[Asmodian]

Yep, everything should look exactly the same.

[XTrojan]

What's the difference between OS HDR (Windows 10 HDR enabled playback) and NV HDR (MadVR auto switching with Windows 10 HDR turned off)?

I red some about OS HDR not sending metadata back in early 2018s, but some people claim it does.

Are they basically both the same but one is rendered by Windows and one by Nvidia?

[actarusfleed]

copyback gives you the option to use some feature you can only use using a CPU like blackbar detection IVTC this is currently not possible with a native decoder.

I imagine that the "2.35:1 35mm film" sign tells me that black bar detection is actived ...

https://audioquality.it/cloud/forum/bb2.jpg

The strange thing is that I still have black bar detection also if I change "hardware decoder to use" to none or D3D11.
Is it not only a feature of DXVA2 copyback?

On the first pic in OSD: you play 60.00Hz content on 59.94Hz! That's why you get drops :)


What exact values do you have in madVR for display resolutions switching?

This is a new photo taken now with the file not paused, during playback.

https://audioquality.it/cloud/forum/60fps.jpg

In the settings for devices into Madvr I've setted: 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p50, 2160p60.

Chors , trust me, the frame lost are massive. This is not a refresh problem ... Look at the decoder queue ... it's to low.
Huhn is right , my GTX970 has a poor decoder for UHD files! :(

I've also problems with 24fps UHD HDR files taken from UHD discs.
If I play the file from the beginning the queue remains full and I've no drop frames with a avg rendering time near 32ms.
If I move ahead using the line-time of the film and jump to another point It starts to drop frames massively.
If I pause the playback the rendering queue fills up again and if I play it again I have no dropped frames for some minutes .... after that maybe the queue turns down and the drop frames restarts.

In a first moment I was thinking that my USB3 HDD was to slow to send MKV UHD files to HTPC. So I've copied a file to the main SSD hdd.
The problem persists so I'm thinking that Huhm is right my GTX970 has poor decoder also for UHD at 24fps.

P.s. Focus assist is disabled.

If you have any suggestion to reduce dropped frames ...

Thank you so much.

[grendelrt]

Are there any disadvantages of using the internal subtitle renderer inside MPC_HC for Madvr instead of using xysubfilter?

[albur]

Post of a picture of the OSD (Ctrl + J) and post it here. What are your rendering times and is the GPU switching correctly to 1080p24?


https://imgur.com/a/gxw3ZBA

Yes it switch to 1080p24 but in full screen exclusive mode it drops a lot of frames with 3D MVC mkvs, without exclusive mode it works fine

[Warner306]

What's the difference between OS HDR (Windows 10 HDR enabled playback) and NV HDR (MadVR auto switching with Windows 10 HDR turned off)?

I red some about OS HDR not sending metadata back in early 2018s, but some people claim it does.

Are they basically both the same but one is rendered by Windows and one by Nvidia?

They are the same, but one is automatic and the other isn't.

[Warner306]

https://imgur.com/a/gxw3ZBA

Yes it switch to 1080p24 but in full screen exclusive mode it drops a lot of frames with 3D MVC mkvs, without exclusive mode it works fine

The OSD says the GPU can't keep up, so I don't know what the problem would be. Try reducing your setting for chroma upscaling and see if the rendering times come down. There must be some sort of bottleneck causing those rendering times. fullscreen exclusive mode isn't reliable on Windows 10. That is most likely the issue.

[Damien147]

The only benefit for 8 bit panels and fullscreen exclusive mode is the removal of unwanted pop up messages from win.Am I right?

[clsid]

You can also use Quiet Hours / Focus Assist to hide notifications.

[Damien147]

Indeed.I am just trying to find out if fullscreen exclusive mode has any + or - for me.Win 10 and 8 bit panel here.Is it suggested to stay with fullscreen windowed in my occasion?

[brazen1]

They are the same, but one is automatic and the other isn't.

I don't think auto engage vs manual is the only difference when using NV HDR vs OS HDR.

OS HDR does not apply at display level through any player or software. NV HDR does. This means the display is not going to enter an HDR mode that auto adjusts settings like contrast and backlight because it doesn't passthrough anything to the display other than the desktop faux HDR.

[jkauff]

I seem to remember madshi saying that fullscreen windowed is the way to go with Win 10.

[brazen1]

Use FSE for frame packed MVC 3D.
Use FSE for UHD HDR.
Use FSW for everything else.

[Damien147]

I see.Fullscreen windowed for me then.Thanks guys.

[Asmodian]

You can also use Quiet Hours / Focus Assist to hide notifications.

Focus Assist does not play well with madVR. Oddly it causes studder if any aspect of it is enabled.

[XTrojan]

They are the same, but one is automatic and the other isn't.

Some people back in the thread said that OS HDR doesnt't send metadata.

Then there's also NV HDR sending 12bit image while OS HDR maxes out at 10?

[huhn]

madVR is limited to 10 bit output no matter what.

the GPU driver is limited to 12 bit for the usual refreshrates/resolutions.

the HDR NV API or the HDR OS API have nothing todo with this.