madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[ikakun]

0.88.2 seem to broke next/skip file for me, tried default setting, both mpc-hc and pot player does it. revert back to 0.88.1 and it is fine.

Same here.

[SecurityBunny]

Exactly. Set to 10 bit, avoid dithering to gain some performance if u want as chances are u won't see any benefit enabling it (tests required) and call it a day.
I think dithering looks a bit messy on a plasma less noise = cleaner/clearer picture.

Are you saying I could set the dithering algorithm to none if madVR display bitdepth is set to 10 bit? It won't cause any graphical downgrade in video playback and I can save the performance cost?

If dithering is recommended to always have, which setting produces the highest quality without grain?

[James Freeman]

Overkill that costs you nothing. Disable dithering and gain performance.

Nonsense.
By overkill I meant to visual gradient but NOT for mathematics correctness; Meaning it should never be turned off.

Dithering is important, nothing falls exactly in place mathematically even in 10bit which is only 1024 places.
I use Ordered Dithering which takes nothing from the performance nor from the quality of dithering (imo).

[ryrynz]

Nonsense.
By overkill I meant to visual gradient but NOT for mathematics correctness; Meaning it should never be turned off.


Sure, for correctness.. but that would be only able to be seen with ramps right? In real world content some displays may look "better" with it disabled, correctness be damned.

So if 10 bit "looks" like 8 bit + dithering then the point I'm trying to make here is that you can stand to attain the same PQ (perhaps higher) and also gain performance if you decide to disable dithering.
Alternatively of course one could keep dithering enabled, I was simply pointing out there was an upside to something you claimed was overkill (pointless?) not that enabling 10 bit was sufficient enough to warrant disabling dithering for every situation, I'm quite well aware of it's "importance"

BTW not everyone has negligible impact from dithering, If I disable it I have 8% reduction in GPU load on the HD4000 and it then clocks down to 350Mhz half the time thus saving power.

Are you saying I could set the dithering algorithm to none if madVR display bitdepth is set to 10 bit? It won't cause any graphical downgrade in video playback and I can save the performance cost?

If dithering is recommended to always have, which setting produces the highest quality without grain?

You could, enabling 10 bit certainly makes dithering less important, but how much so would have to be tested.

[James Freeman]

enabling 10 bit certainly makes dithering less important, but how much so would have to be tested.
You may be correct about 10bit being enough to not show gradients (mathematical errors) but only for 1000:1 (low) contrast ratio LCD displays of current generation and a super smooth gradient test pattern, anime/cartoons or super compressed video where the studio dithering is completely gone.
With HDR/Plasma (high contrast ratio display) gradients may be visible in 10bit also, so dithering is important.
Ordered Dithering is as good as Direct Compute (IMO) and has no performance hit for me.

I will test my plasma (Panasonic ST60) if it can accept 10bit signal, and whether the picture is "calmer" without dithering if it can.
Plasma display technology by itself is based on dithering, this is how the image is generated, which can be very distracting.
Maybe it can be even calmer without madVR sending another dithering...?

[ryrynz]

I'm quite interested in seeing actual results of 8 bit + dithering vs 10 bit, is madTestPatternSource working for you?


I will test my plasma (Panasonic ST60) if it can accept 10bit signal, and whether the picture is "calmer" without dithering if it can.
Plasma display technology by itself is based on dithering, this is how the image is generated, which can be very distracting.
Maybe it can be even calmer without madVR sending another dithering...?

I tested my VT50 with 10 bit ouput using MPDN at the time and it looked better (certainly a lot calmer) without dithering, plasma's have enough noise IMO.
Certainly with 8 bit output based on madshi's posts I wouldn't disable it but once I enabled 10 bit that dithering went straight off. Stable pixels makes for a better picture.

[tyto]

Guys. I cant hold all this placebo.
How the heck do I take a proper screenshot? Using mpc builtin takes it before madVR. Or should I just take my time and use hotkeys?

[James Freeman]

I'm quite interested in seeing actual results of 8 bit + dithering vs 10 bit, is madTestPatternSource working for you?

I tested my VT50 with 10 bit ouput using MPDN at the time and it looked better (certainly a lot calmer) without dithering,

I have tested with a grey gradient from AVS709HD and Debanding on High which creates a super smooth gradient in 16bit floating in madVR, which is similar to madTestPatternSource.
Tested with my Dell U2410 which supports 10bit (8bit+FRC).
I saw no difference between:
* 8bit+dithering(madVR)->U2410 8bit.
* 10bit+no dithering (madVR)->U2410 10bit (8bit+FRC).


Guys. I cant hold all this placebo.
How the heck do I take a proper screenshot? Using mpc builtin takes it before madVR. Or should I just take my time and use hotkeys?

Printscreen.

[nevcairiel]

Guys. I cant hold all this placebo.
How the heck do I take a proper screenshot? Using mpc builtin takes it before madVR. Or should I just take my time and use hotkeys?

There is a function in windows, called "print screen", there is even a key like that on your keyboard.... :)

[Qaq]

Is DX11 (current implementation?) compatible with DXVA2 native?

First time I tried it with 10 bits (0.88.0) and got fullscreen static pattern. Seems like a video driver crash. Had to reboot the whole system. 10 bits worked fine with software decoding before that.

Next time I tried it with 8 bits (0.88.2) and got high CPU load on MPC-HC process (very old build though). Both LAV and madVR showed DXVA. Reverted madVR back to some old build and everything went normal.

Win7 x86, 7750, 13.12.

[ryrynz]

How the heck do I take a proper screenshot?

Just make sure you aren't in FSE mode (when using printscreen) also 10 bit output can't be captured accurately so don't bother trying to make screenshot comparisons with it enabled.

Alt+I is another alternative in MPC that'll capture FSE mode just fine.

[iSunrise]

First things first, thanks a lot for keeping madVR up-to-date madshi! Will provide useful feedback when I have more time, currently an awful lot of work...

I tested my VT50 with 10 bit ouput using MPDN at the time and it looked better (certainly a lot calmer) without dithering, plasma's have enough noise IMO.
Certainly with 8 bit output based on madshi's posts I wouldn't disable it but once I enabled 10 bit that dithering went straight off. Stable pixels makes for a better picture.
You really have to be careful about that.

Just because something is "calmer" and more stable doesn't automatically mean it's more accurate. That's why we (foremost madshi, but also everyone that helped tweaking the dithering algorithms in this very thread) wanted an extremely accurate but as noise-free as possible solution and I think we succeeded in that. We tested with up to 16bit inputs and only with madVRs final dithering we could get away with extremely high accurateness. madVR's dithering is so accurate that you can lower bitdepth to sub 6bit and barely notice anything if you don't watch very closely. This of course also depends on the dithering type you select, that's why madVR offers some very high-quality choices tweaked to preferences of CRTs, plasmas, LCDs and last but not least projectors.

Secondly, and rather more common, there are still a lot of sub 8bit displays out there and lots of displays that claim to support >8bit, but don't, let alone people that don't even understand "what to look for".

Sadly, my Eizo CG243W only supports 10bit input via DisplayPort and I am not even sure if DVI in general even supports it. From the top of my head I only recall Displayport and HDMI. So there's that.

Also, as long as we cannot output in 16bit (which is the final image madVR has available before it gets sent to the display), theoretically dithering will always be required.

Also, in cases when the display does something it shouldn't do (e.x. disabling the dithering when there's higher precision inputs than a certain threshold, e.x. due to a firmware bug or just because no one expected it), dithering is a good way of being safe in that regard.

[ryrynz]

You really have to be careful about that.


Granted I was only using my eyes for testing but I was very close to the TV and honestly whatever mathematical accurateness near invisible to the eye was gained by having dithering
enabled did not amount to enough of a improvement vs the drawbacks of additional noise in the picture. I'll give it another look though with madVR when I can.

I have tested with a grey gradient from AVS709HD and Debanding on High which creates a super smooth gradient in 16bit floating in madVR, which is similar to madTestPatternSource.
Tested with my Dell U2410 which supports 10bit (8bit+FRC).
I saw no difference between:
* 8bit+dithering(madVR)->U2410 8bit.
* 10bit+no dithering (madVR)->U2410 10bit (8bit+FRC).


So if 8 bit + dithering was super accurate enough.. and nobody (so far) can see a significant difference between 8 bit + dithering and 10 bit with no dithering why big deal about enabling dithering on 10 bit?
Are we at a point where we don't really need it enabled?

[toniash]

@madshi
any requirements for image and upscaling enhancements?
I'm in XP:thanks:

[James Freeman]

Are we at a point where we don't really need dithering enabled?

Again, at low contrast ratio display.
In this case yes, 8bit+dithering which visually can be equivalent to 10bit+ where our human eye is at its limit discerning such small light difference.

* Taken that the visual system is linear (which is most definitely not), just for practical example:
A monitor with peak white at 120[cd/m2] divided by 256 (8bit) will have 0.47[cd/m2] light difference between steps.
A monitor with peak white at 1000[cd/m2] (HDR) divided by 256 (8bit) will have 3.9[cd/m2] light difference between steps.
A monitor with peak white at 120[cd/m2] divided by 1024 (10bit) will have 0.11[cd/m2] light difference between steps.
A monitor with peak white at 1000[cd/m2] divided by 1024 (10bit) will have 0.98[cd/m2] light difference between steps.

[ryrynz]

madTestPatternSource is only working on x86 ATM, but I ran it on the plasma and the U2412. Basically 10 bit without dithering looks near identical to 8 bit without dithering.. so there's a big difference in the graduation of the bars
when switching from 10 bit to 10 bit + dithering.. so I guess that ends that.. I was expecting 10 bit to show some sort of difference.

Madshi, sometimes when switching dithering options or even the bit depth output on the HD4000 sometimes resulted in a black or partial black screen which when playback continued disappeared.

[James Freeman]

ryrynz I can't understand your post.
Can you please read it and fix it?

any requirements for image and upscaling enhancements?
A video card.

[ryrynz]

ryrynz I can't understand your post.
Can you please read it and fix it?


Reads fine, using smallramp I believe I can see a small improvement when switching between 8 and 10 bit but it's not hardly worth mentioning, I still see each individual bar in 10 bit until dithering is enabled.
I don't know how anyone can say 8 bit + dithering is anywhere near 10 bit.. as I'm not seeing that at all.

7 bit has a huge effect on the ramps, 8, 9 & 10 bit look almost exactly the same (I certainly couldn't tell the difference without looking up close)

Can someone else jump into an x86 version of MPC / BE and look at the smallramp & tell me if they see any difference between 8 and 10 bit output?

madshi, I'm getting strange results switching bit depths.. I switched to 8 bit from 7 bit (which didn't change bitdepth btw) and when I clicked okay on 8 bit it switched to 7 bit.. I had banding on smallramp
so it definitely wasn't 8 bit.

I duplicated it, switched to 7 bit no change in output, went and changed to 8 bit and boom.. banding all over the place. I also changed to 6 bit (updated as expected) went to 8 bit (did nothing) then went back to 6 bit and it changed to 8 bit. Testing on the HD 4000, 10.18.10.4176, Windows 7.

Now it's behaving properly.. (restarted the player) no idea what caused it, can't duplicate it again.

[James Freeman]

First sentence: looks near identical -> big difference in the graduation ???
Or: there's a big difference in the graduation -> 10 bit to 10 bit + dithering ???
???

My experience is 180 deg different.

I can clearly see the difference between UNDITHERED 8bit vs 10bit.
But Dithered 8bit vs 10bit has no difference.

It has to be compared on a ditherless display technology, aka don't compare on a plasma.
Use an LCD preferable with native 10bit panel or 8+FRC which is next best thing.

[toniash]

A video card.
It doesn't work for me No effect

[madshi]

PM'ed you a log.
Hmmmm... That was Windows 7, right? I can see why it's happening, but the behaviour is different on my PC. Might be hard to fix without being able to reproduce it. Will have to test if I can reproduce it on Windows 7...

Yes I do.
Ok, then I don't know why it's happening... :( Even my old GeForce 8400 NVidia HTPC fills up the render & present queues just fine with Windows 7.

I do not believe this claim of the movie industry without further evidence. Do you have any idea how many colors are in 10bit and how many in 11bit? 10 Already has more than 1 billion, that's already 64 times more than 8bit!

Start by doing some tests between 7bit and 8bit.

If those two are hard to see, imagine 10->11bit!
He was talking about tests with undithered images. Dithering works great in madVR, but it's not as great for movie encoding. Because if you dither a movie source before encoding, the encoding removes some of the dithering again, especially if the bitrate is too low.

Image Upscaling = Jinc 3tap + AA
Try Lanczos3 AR instead. Or even Catmull Rom AA. If you're using image doubling + quadrupling, the image upscaling algorithm is much less important, and it's used for upscaling the chroma part of the image, when using NNEDI3 for image doubling.

Image Quadrupling = severe frame drops for sub-1080p content, even when SuperRes is disabled for Image Refinement and Chroma Upscaling. Used to use-able (both Chroma and Luma) in madVR 0.87.21 without frame drops.
It's a bit strange. But I think if you lower the image upscaling algorithm, you should be able to get the same or faster speed than 0.87.21, with the same image quality.

1. Why is Quadrupling creating frame drops in the latest version of madVR, but not in the older version, where I had both Luma and Chroma Doubling and Quadrupling, all set to NNEDI3 32n?
I do wonder myself. Using NNEDI3 for Chroma Doubling is overkill, really, so I disabled it in v0.88.x. Now instead the image upscaling algorithm is used. Which means Jinc3 AR with your current settings. It seems that in your case using NNEDI3 for Chroma Doubling actually was faster than using Jinc3 AR. Which is strange, but what I do know.

Btw: When using e.g. FineSharp as an upscaling refinement together with NNEDI3 image doubling, an issue with the Nvidia driver is triggered: The image gets corrupted as shown in the following (dark & red) and the NV driver fails to enter fast clock states, it can't go any higher than P5 state (faster P2 state would be correct for OpenCL/CUDA)
I can't reproduce that on my PC. I think this is likely to be just another NV driver bug, sadly. We had a lot of these lately, especially if NNEDI3 and/or error diffusion was involved... :(

Not sure if this has been reported, but I get a total freeze/crash (have to kill MPC-BE with task manager) when entering fullscreen with super res enabled for upscaling (chroma is fine) with image quadrupling (nnedi3, any setting) regardless of FSE mode (d3d11/9, 8-10bit). With no super res, video plays fine with quadrupling. On this screen (1920x1200) only affects DVD resolution videos obviously.
NVidia?

madVR 0.88.2 32bit
ati 5770 13.12
Win7 64bit

d3d11 render queue doesn't fill up, and present time is 0.26 vs 0.07 for d3d9.
Strange thing. Doesn't happen on my PC.

64bit nnedi3 will make image darken, it that known issue?
Works fine here. Are you using NVidia?

It appears that homemade VfW H.264 put into .avi files cannot be played in 0.88.2 anymore without an ugly green bar at the top of the video. It used to be good with 0.87.X. And yeah, I realize you're not supposed to record H.264 in .avi, but it used to work fine. (and I put them in .mkv afterwards, but still no dice)

Edit: Looks as if the chroma part of the image is 'pushed downwards' by X amount of pixels. Smaller video, bigger bar.

Link to a small test video. (http://www.filedropper.com/test_2)
Works fine on my PC. Are you using LAV Video Decoder? With default settings? How can I reproduce this on my PC?

Is DX11 (current implementation?) compatible with DXVA2 native?
It should be. And it seems to work fine on my PC.

any requirements for image and upscaling enhancements?
I'm in XP:thanks:
Nothing special, other than a GPU which is fast enough. I haven't tested in XP for a long time, though.

[ryrynz]

First sentence: looks near identical -> big difference in the graduation ???
Or: there's a big difference in the graduation -> 10 bit to 10 bit + dithering ???
???


I would be hard pressed to tell you whether 10 bit was enabled. Dithering is providing the exact same improvement in graduation as it does with 8 bit.


It has to be compared on a ditherless display technology, aka don't compare on a plasma.
Use an LCD preferable with native 10bit panel or 8+FRC which is next best thing.

I'm staring at a Dell U2412 calibrated by an i1 display, I can see the ramps in 10 bit about as easily as I can in 8 bit when dithering is disabled, makes me wonder if it's actually switching at all.

[James Freeman]

ryrynz,

When I write about 10bit I mean that a display can actually display 10bit properly via FSE and D3D11!
A U2410/U2413 can properly display 10bit via DisplayPort.

The U2412M is 6bit+FRC and does not accept 10bit signal at all.
And from your description, your monitor generates banding in a super smooth test pattern in 8 or 10 bit.

[Hprd]

Not sure if this has been reported, but I get a total freeze/crash (have to kill MPC-BE with task manager) when entering fullscreen with super res enabled for upscaling (chroma is fine) with image quadrupling (nnedi3, any setting) regardless of FSE mode (d3d11/9, 8-10bit). With no super res, video plays fine with quadrupling. On this screen (1920x1200) only affects DVD resolution videos obviously.

NVidia?

Yes gtx 770, 350.12 drivers. Win 8.1 64 bit.

[Francois76l]

Thanks Madshi for this new release!
My projector (JVC RS46) can display 8,10 and 12 bit video signal.
when I set Madvr in 10 bits, the projector's informations menu indicate 12bit signal. Is it normal?
Madvr 0.88.2

[huhn]

Thanks Madshi for this new release!
My projector (JVC RS46) can display 8,10 and 12 bit video signal.
when I set Madvr in 10 bits, the projector's informations menu indicate 12bit signal. Is it normal?
Madvr 0.88.2

your device support high input bit deep that doesn't mean it can output it that a whole different story.

if you are on nvidia it's normal to see 12 bit not 10 bit for some reason nvidia prefer to output everything over 8 bit as 12 bit and it looks like 10 bit is not even an option.

if you are on AMD go to my digital flat panel -> properties (digital flat panel) and check the color depth setting.
at default AMD likes to output 10 bit. 13.12 doesn't have this option.

[madshi]

Yes gtx 770, 350.12 drivers. Win 8.1 64 bit.
Ok. I've only had this kind of instability reports from NVidia users, so far. I believe it's a GPU driver bug, because this issue doesn't seem to occur for AMD users. But it's hard to be certain. I can't reproduce this problem on my PC with my NVidia 650, so I also can't run any further tests to find out what's going on exactly. You could try a few different NVidia driver versions to check if any of them maybe fix the problem.

[Hprd]

Hmm, darn. Well tbh, for pretty much everything else these drivers are working perfectly, and I don't really feel like messing around with a bunch of them (sorry if i'm not helpful here). I think I'll use finesharp instead then for quadrupling (or everything actually), since it seems to give nearly identical results (with a little tweaking of the settings), and doesn't cause this issue.

[Francois76l]

Thank you huhn for your this information.
You're right I have an nvidia GPU (GTX 660 Ti)
So in my case madvr send 8-->10bits to the GPU and the GPU send 10-->12bits to the projector?
Not sure if it's a good solution.
I have to make some tests tonight to see if I can find difference between 8 and 10 bits.
For the moment I have just the feeling that the picture fluidity is better in D3D11 but it's certainly in my head ;)

[Schwartz]

Works fine on my PC. Are you using LAV Video Decoder? With default settings? How can I reproduce this on my PC?

I'm using LAV from the latest MPC-HC nightly on a R9 270X GPU. It works fine using EVR and other renderers. I don't think it is a madVR setting in particular - I tried nearly all of them. Maybe someone else with the same card (or 7870, etc) can download my sample and check it out?

Okay, it appears native DXVA in conjunction with madVR produces this.

[huhn]

I'm using LAV from the latest MPC-HC nightly on a R9 270X GPU. It works fine using EVR and other renderers. I don't think it is a madVR setting in particular - I tried nearly all of them. Maybe someone else with the same card (or 7870, etc) can download my sample and check it out?

Okay, it appears native DXVA in conjunction with madVR produces this.

i get a green bar at the top of the video using DXVA native. EVR-CP works fine with DXVA native.

[madshi]

Strange. No problem here:

http://madshi.net/dxvaBug.png

This is on Windows 8.1 x64 with my AMD GPU. LAV switched to native DXVA. madVR reset to default settings.

[nevcairiel]

Looks fine here using NVIDIA. But MPC-HC (1.7.8 stable) crashes when I use Ctrl+E to reload the video. =(

[madshi]

Yes, I'm aware of the crash problem. Will be fixed in 0.88.3, stupid bug in 0.88.2.

[huhn]

But I do get the right colors. I verified with HCFR Calibration when I placed Rec.601 3DLUT into Rec.709 line and selected Rec.709 in madTPG for verification. 3DLUT already sets the colors for you. I don't think madVR messes with them...

a bt 709 is needed as the "main" 3D LUT.

you can read about this here: http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=294

[potomac]

Nothing to worry about, disabling it means madVR does the deinterlacing. Software deinterlacing in LAV uses your CPU, while madVR uses your GPU to deinterlace and it's usually better to leave the deinterlacing to madVR.
To make sure everything works fine, check if the debug OSD (CTRL+J) says "deinterlacing on" (right over the queues in the OSD).

in lav video i have to set deinterlacing mode "auto" and uncheck YADIF, and in madvr "if in doubt, deactivate deinterlacing", right?
it doesn't work on my 8600m, the debug osd is correct but video drop a large amount of frames. if i disable deinterlacing this blu ray works ok without artifact :confused:
my desktop's 5850 is powerful enough for this but 8600m no

[huhn]

in lav video i have to set deinterlacing mode "auto" and uncheck YADIF, and in madvr "if in doubt, deactivate deinterlacing", right?
it doesn't work on my 8600m, the debug osd is correct but video drop a large amount of frames. if i disable deinterlacing this blu ray works ok without artifact :confused:
my desktop's 5850 is powerful enough for this but 8600m no

leave the madVR deinterlaced settings as they are.
if a BD is deinterlaced it runs at 50 or 60 hz that mean your rendertiems have be below 16 ms!

can you share a very small sample ~10-30 sec from a motion scene?
maybe the BD is PsF.

[Weirdo]

Yes, I'm aware of the crash problem. Will be fixed in 0.88.3, stupid bug in 0.88.2.

Great, thanks a lot. Just to mention that 0.88.2 crashes DVBViewer only on DVB-S, not DVB-T.

[James Freeman]

10-bit Display Support Test

This test will make it easier to see if your display actually supports 10bit input to output.
We already know that D3D11 + FSE in madVR will output a 10bit signal in windows 7 and up.
Now we just need to provide a super smooth black to white test pattern to clearly be able to see with our eyes.

First download this Greyscale Ramp mp4 file which I copied from AVS709HD (all rights reserved to them):
http://www.mediafire.com/download/6e6jhmcgxie4ncv/Grayscale_Ramp.zip

Play the mp4 file and set madVR as follows:
display->properties->10bit
display->calibration->disable & disable GPU gamma ramp.
processing->artifact removal->reduce banding ON: High High.
rendering-> general-> Direct3D 11 ON
rendering->dithering->none
rendering->general->automatic exclusive fullscreen mode (FSE)-> off (for now).

When the strong Debanding is On and Dithering is Off the resulting output image will be a gradient in the bitdepth you set under properties.
You can switch between bit depths to see what I mean and go back to 10bit.

Now go fullscreen without FSE (windowed fullscreen) to see the 8bit banding which should be visible because there are only 256 gradients from black to white because the GPU is sending the image in 8bit to the display in this mode.

Now switch FSE On ("automatic exclusive fullscreen mode" under general) and go fullscreen again, now the GPU actually sends 10bit image to the display, and if your display supports 10bit input, you should now see 1024 gradients from black to white which is practically indiscernible (to me).

If you still see the 8bit gradients even though the GPU sends 10bit to your display in FSE+D3D11 mode, your display does not support 10bit.

* The Panasonic ST60 does not support 10bit at the input, I still see the 8bit gradients.
But the Dell U2410 flickers and switches to 10bit mode and the image is smooth (first time seeing 10bit mode after owning this display for 5 years).

Note to AMD users: you should do a registry change to disable dithering by driver pointed in the thread below.

PLEASE GO TO THIS THREAD FOR NEWER TEST AND DISCUSSION: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=172128

.

[Werewolfy]

Thanks I just wanted to test my TV, I will test that when I'm home :)


You think "low" debanding strength is still too strong for UHD Blu-Ray?


Maybe yes, I don't really know because I have never seen a real 10 bit video for now. I just know that the low preset blurs some very tiny details. I don't know if it's an overkill in that case or if it's still will be necessary.

[noee]

10-bit Display Support Test

This test will make it easier to see if your display actually supports 10bit input to output.....

Cool. So, when I set for 8bit and go FSE OFF, I can barely make out the gradient. I mean I have to really look close. This is a 2year old Hitatchi LCD, so I can't imagine it has 10bit support.

My eyes just bad or is my screen doing something to smooth out the gradients (like dithering, I would assume)?

[James Freeman]

My eyes just bad or is my screen doing something to smooth out the gradients?
No , your eyes are fine; I too have my nose in the screen to see the gradients of 8bit.
On a typical LCD with 1000:1 contrast TV/Monitor 8bit is almost enough, but still visible on a smooth test pattern.

A video/movie is not a test pattern, you will not be able to see any difference between 8 and 10 bit at all.

[potomac]

leave the madVR deinterlaced settings as they are.
if a BD is deinterlaced it runs at 50 or 60 hz that mean your rendertiems have be below 16 ms!

can you share a very small sample ~10-30 sec from a motion scene?
maybe the BD is PsF.

also dvds doesn't run smoothly with deinterlace! :(
check pm for the sample

[phoenix369]

I´ve tried your test with my Panasonic TX-50AX800E 4K which is supposed to support 10bit but failed to see differences between 8bit and 10bit. Followed your instructions in madVR config. Any ideas ?
Have I understand correctly the fact that 10bit needs FSE mode ?
Thanks!

[huhn]

I´ve tried your test with my Panasonic TX-50AX800E 4K which is supposed to support 10bit but failed to see differences between 8bit and 10bit. Followed your instructions in madVR config. Any ideas ?
Have I understand correctly the fact that 10bit needs FSE mode ?
Thanks!

who said this that this TV is 10 bit?

and yes FSE is needed for 10 bit.

[nevcairiel]

10-bit Display Support Test

processing->artifact removal->reduce banding ON: High High.


Personally, I find its much more obvious on that particular pattern if you disable debanding, since debanding is a dithering algorithm in itself. In 8-bit, i can see quite obvious banding, while in 10-bit, its far less obvious, barely visible.
There is however one problem with that test (with or without debanding). If i try that on a display which I know is 8-bit only, it still looks better in 10-bit FSE mode. Maybe the GPU dithers, or the display itself. I can't be sure. But i don't get the 8-bit picture which I would get from windowed mode.

[phoenix369]

who said this that this TV is 10 bit?

and yes FSE is needed for 10 bit.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/panasonic-vixs-collaborate-updated-uhd-130000698.html

Not sure. Maybe I got it wrong :confused:

[meetajhu]

How to install only madVR 64-bit?

[phoenix369]

Personally, I find its much more obvious on that particular pattern if you disable debanding, since debanding is a dithering algorithm in itself. In 8-bit, i can see quite obvious banding, while in 10-bit, its far less obvious, barely visible.
There is however one problem with that test (with or without debanding). If i try that on a display which I know is 8-bit only, it still looks better in 10-bit FSE mode. Maybe the GPU dithers, or the display itself. I can't be sure. But i don't get the 8-bit picture which I would get from windowed mode.

This make all the difference!! Now I can see the change. Even in 10-bit I still can differentiate the gradient bars.
I suppose this is confirmation then :)

BTW. I can`t see the mouse pointer in FSE, so seek bar is unusable, anybody else?

[sneaker_ger]

How to install only madVR 64-bit?

Delete the line "@regsvr32.exe madVR.ax" from the install.bat before running it.