madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[tp4tissue]

lol.
In the exact same post you first say you understand vanden's need:
but then just two sentences later you ask again why bother to use madVR if it's to sacrifice quality here or there:The point is to benefit from madVR's unique HDR tonemapping, which MPC's custom presenter cannot do.Tbh, if he's using a CRT with UHD sources, I'm not sure he's gonna see the difference between DXVA chroma upscaling and a higher quality one by madVR. Are you suggesting he also throws money to change his display?


I'm suggesting he change his GPU, because the compromises he's intending to make is Not verified (to work properly) at this point, and assuming they do get validated by Madshi it will take some time.

As for the monitor, if vanden's using a lacie 22, he's probably a crt enthusiast, He probably has another monitor, he's just choosing to stay CRT for the MAGIC.

[vanden]

@ tp4tissue
GTX650Ti probably has a VGA RAMDAC of 400 Mhz, but it is stable @ 440 Mhz.
SUNIX DPU3000 <allegedly can do 500mhz pixel clock :

This is not marked what it supports in VGA !!
I searched and the max that I found (tested) is 330-340 Mhz :
https://hardforum.com/threads/dvi-d-and-the-fw900.1800043/
https://support.plugable.com/t/high-speed-vga-from-displayport-1-2-or-hdmi-2-0/8816/4
The whole point of madvr is to be more accurate, by keeping the unstable/imprecise dxva @ bay.
I copy El Filou's answer :
vanden has to use DXVA chroma/scaling because he's using madVR for the (very) high quality HDR tonemapping and with his GPU he has to make a choice. I think it's valid.
And ryrynz :
Not exactly. DXVA isn't quite as bad as you make out in many situations.
Sometimes sacrificing chroma quality is actually a worthwhile trade off.

But actually when I read a bluray I use NGU Very High for chroma upscaling (screen in 1920x1200 @ 72 or 96hz whith optimized timing : No drops/repeats expected) MPCHC x64 :
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img924/1165/oZVxnz.jpg
But often I prefer to use SVPx3 @ 72Hz, and I have to make concessions again (Chroma upscaling = Lanctoz4AR), I love the swap opera (but I still prefer high framerate video) MPCHC x64 :
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img921/1165/ARDeH3.jpg
And for video 4k 10bit HDR I still make concessions (I can not use SVP, I use smooth motion ... it's less good but I have no choice) and for the upscaling I am obliged to use DXVA ... it is surely not the best quality but frankly it remains very watchable and especially I have madVR's tone mapping !

We use madvr because we want to get the most quality out of the thing, but then now, we hold back the minimal amount of resources that madvr needs to work properly. What was the point ?
I copy El Filou's answer :
The point is to benefit from madVR's unique HDR tonemapping, which MPC's custom presenter cannot do.

For now I do not intend to change the screen and graphics card, is a screen of 2004 that I was given 6 years ago and the graphic card same !

The screen is great I use it for Bluray 3D (VGA eDimentional glasses buy 40 €) for some video hight framerat 48-120Hz and now for video 4K 10 bit HDR ... it is very bright (for a CRT / 150cd/m²)

If today I had to buy a screen with nothing but most of these features : it's very expensive.

Certainly I do not claim that in 2880x2160 all the pixels are well defined but we can go beyond the 2048x1536 (the difference of image sharpness and details is visible at least until 2240x1680/2560x1440) ...

You should know that in 2004 no consumer card manages more than 2048x1536 and I think that is why the screen manufacturers of the time did not put higher resolutions !

[RXP]

Is anyone using MadVR to tone map to their OLEDs? I realised I can setup two different profiles in MadVR settings and assign a keyboard shortcut. So I set up one for passthrough HDR metadata to display and then a pixel shaders tone map. I can then use Ctrl-Alt-1 and Ctrl-Alt-2 to toggle between the two.

I can take the LG Jazz demo scene, pause it and immediately see the difference between MadVR vs native. MadVR has a ton of detail recovery but for some reason it really desaturates the pixels. So while I can make out more detail - that detail is white. Take the light bulb scene - I can make out the filliments at the center with MadVR more but they're almost white. With LG's own, I can't make out detail but the colour is more orange/red.

I was wondering if this was due to LG C6's own tone mapping, so I was getting double tone mapping even though I'm running 385.28 with my GTX 1070 and have set the peak nits to 650.

I actually prefer the look on the native tone mapping in many scenes

[madjock]

Is anyone using MadVR to tone map to their OLEDs? I realised I can setup two different profiles in MadVR settings and assign a keyboard shortcut. So I set up one for passthrough HDR metadata to display and then a pixel shaders tone map. I can then use Ctrl-Alt-1 and Ctrl-Alt-2 to toggle between the two.

I can take the LG Jazz demo scene, pause it and immediately see the difference between MadVR vs native. MadVR has a ton of detail recovery but for some reason it really desaturates the pixels. So while I can make out more detail - that detail is white. Take the light bulb scene - I can make out the filliments at the center with MadVR more but they're almost white. With LG's own, I can't make out detail but the colour is more orange/red.

I was wondering if this was due to LG C6's own tone mapping, so I was getting double tone mapping even though I'm running 385.28 with my GTX 1070 and have set the peak nits to 650.

I actually prefer the look on the native tone mapping in many scenes

Try taking your peak nits down to 200 or something. I dont have an OLED, but I think the setting needs to be lower.

[Alexkral]

MadVR has a ton of detail recovery but for some reason it really desaturates the pixels.

If those saturation differences are only in the highlights then it's probably due to madVR's gamut mapping, I also feel that it desaturates them too much. I think that just clipping looks more appealing most of the time, but really bad sometimes. I don't know what the C6 will be doing.

[Warner306]

If it is gamut mapping, someone should take some screenshots and provide a timestamp so madshi can take a look at it. Desaturation of bright detail isn't an issue with SDR output. Make sure you uncheck compromise on tone and gamut mapping quality under trade quality for performance.

Do you have Pan or Mad Max: Fury Road? Can you test the same scenes shown in this video showing the HDR Optimizer on the UB9000 to see how madVR compares? It is already doing a better job with SDR output, so I don't see why it can't do a similar or superior job with HDR output.

Note that the Panasonic has the target peak nits set to 1,000 nits (or OLED in the video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTw_Toh0PzA&t=909s

[tp4tissue]

@ tp4tissue

snip


@ vanden.

The converter I linked goes up to 500mhz. It's been tested by the fw900 enthusiasts. they know what they're doing.


As for Using Madvr in the way , YOU, intend to use it.

Right now you're essentially sacrificing ALL of madvr's features for HDR tonemapping.

And one of the major sacrifices you're doing is Chroma and Luma accuracy (good tonemapping would need that , probably ?).

Which means, even if tonemapping and everything works correctly (WHICH we don't know is the case given your current settings, untested by anyone, no one has measured it with a meter, nothing), you've negated a significant portion of the Benefits of using Madvr.

_it's possible in the future_ Someone / maybe even madshi, will go and validate the settings you're using, but there's no guarantee, and it may be quite a while.

What you're doing is like buying a car with a HUGE engine, but you ran out of money, and couldn't afford the wheels. I am NOT saying that a car with no wheels has absolutely no use.. For sure you can sit in it, and pretend like you're driving.. but it's a bit silly. This is what you're setting up right now, with the Madvr compromises.



As for the CRT issue. The native resolution on your box is ~2000 horizontal. Which is well within even the most budget vga adapters.

That means, the manufacturers has determined, that given the Shadow mask and the Signal processing curves, phosphorus bloom, That Native resolution labeled on the box produces the highest fidelity. DO NOT presume that because you can overdrive the beam, that it's better. The Designers know what they're doing, you are NOT getting a better image out of it by going to 2880.

There is ALOT more tuning that the builders did to flesh out the Best presentation from their machine, and all of it centers around the number they put on the box.

At higher res, you lose fidelity, detail, color/tone accuracy, geometry accuracy, I recommend you browse the fw900 thread, the reasons are explained there.



In your situation, if you're dead-set on that CRT, the Cheapest option is a 960 gtx, which has 4K decoding hardware unlike 970/980gtx.

There are faster ATI cards with vga than the 960 w/ 4K, but they're not as well supported by madvr vs nvidia.

The next best, more expensive option is 980 Ti

More money, more reliable, is a 1060/70/80 + Sunix adapter.

Then finally, 1080Ti, 20xx 2080Ti + Sunix adapter.

[ryrynz]

@madjock, would you mind not quoting an entire multi paragraph post directly above yours just to write a one sentence answer? Just hit reply not quote, a thread is serial by design so replies directed to the author of a previous post are extremely common and easily extrapolated as such. Thanks.

[el Filou]

@ vanden.
As for the CRT issue. The native resolution on your box is ~2000 horizontal. Which is well within even the most budget vga adapters.
That means, the manufacturers has determined, that given the Shadow mask and the Signal processing curves, phosphorus bloom, That Native resolution labeled on the box produces the highest fidelity. DO NOT presume that because you can overdrive the beam, that it's better. The Designers know what they're doing, you are NOT getting a better image out of it by going to 2880.The recommended resolution isn't even 2048x1536 even though it's the highest listed, it's 1600x1200. LaCie also lists an aperture grille pitch of 0,24mm which for this tube size gives ~1690 lines.

(CRTs don't really have a 'native definition', btw)

[tp4tissue]

The recommended resolution isn't even 2048x1536 even though it's the highest listed, it's 1600x1200. LaCie also lists an aperture grille pitch of 0,24mm which for this tube size gives ~1690 lines.

(CRTs don't really have a 'native definition', btw)


Whatever's recommended or listed is the one to go with. Point is, someone tuned the box for the numbers in the listed spec. Go above or below, we end in the same non-validated territory.


As for Native resolution, it comes down to how you define Native.

Native as in the tuned the rise and fall of the voltage controller to optimize some aspect of the beam gun. Would that constitute NATIVE ?

Is the limitation of the horizontal scan, or the vertical scan, or the aperture ?

the Answer is NONE of those things, it's ALL of those things. The totality of the design IS the Native Resolution of the Final Device.


Whether or not something has a Native resolution in-theory is irrelevant.

Whatever was validated By the designer/engineer, that is native, they wrote it ON THE BOX, no need to overthink this..

[Alexkral]

Mad Max: Fury Road 28:29

MMFR - UB9000 HDR Optimizer Off (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WceoLc3zIRY_ZYtDPEVmMQIspd7-lI0G/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - UB9000 HDR Optimizer On (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zukGQPcoOdkPxtrpnax0puHEaRC5uUgh/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - madVR tonemapping 10000 nits to 1000 nits + gamut mapping (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UCmNnhQWhteKSSkmxfTd4cMJs48-x5it/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - Clipping at 1000 nits + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dyf7zEIKH9b3joFpxlPtpdLR6N5GEfQj/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - BT.2390 Tonemapping 10000 nits to 1000 nits with ICtCp Option + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YXEBFark2Hk840PWiwYKUnKN4JE1eFjm/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - BT.2390 Tonemapping 10000 nits to 1000 nits with RGB Option + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Jp4HHj8fjZkp2zNJC9BzyR8f9WAdyMvG/view?usp=sharing)

Those of the UB9000 look brighter because they are photos made to the screen and my TV is around 400 nits. In this scene the RGB option seems the best because the highlights are very saturated, but it is usually the worst because it desaturates too much as can be seen here:

Interstellar 1:34:38

Interstellar - BT.2390 Tonemapping 4000 nits to 400 nits with ICtCp Option + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YBPWSfy_drgQDqgv7U6kcV9l_r2geElh/view?usp=sharing)
Interstellar - BT.2390 Tonemapping 4000 nits to 400 nits with RGB Option + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/17YaEEsCPZMj5qXk_N8oQrwwwl3Z5L-eK/view?usp=sharing)

But madVR's gamut mapping seems to desaturate too much, like here:

X Men: Apocalypse 1:49:02

XMA - madVR Tonemapping to 400 nits + Gamut mapping (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w8HA3zMvgIUZOw956r7wcr3WtUYSU0rZ/view?usp=sharing)
XMA - BT.2390 Tonemapping 10000 nits to 400 nits + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/18NFXiC-2qlhajt4xHNTovQmMah18uJto/view?usp=sharing)
XMA - BT.2390 Tonemapping 1000 nits to 400 nits + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uacCiDS4C3KMLJKcfl-17ImHMyb1eEaE/view?usp=sharing)

MadVR is the most desaturated of the three. Anyway, I'm not quite sure what madVR is doing here. It seems as if it's discarding the metadata and tonemapping from 10000 nits, but the white of the rays being so bright suggests that it's tonemapping from 1000 nits and the difference is due to gamut mapping vs. clipping.

EDIT: The UB9000 pictures are screenshots of the video posted by Warner306, but in the video they're photos taken to the screen.

[madjock]

@madjock, would you mind not quoting an entire multi paragraph post directly above yours just to write a one sentence answer? Just hit reply not quote, a thread is serial by design so replies directed to the author of a previous post are extremely common and easily extrapolated as such. Thanks.

No problem ryrynz, I would say that if you have a moderation hat on, please get tp4tissue/el Filou to stop talking about a problem the op does not even care about. Arguing about what is and what is not is hardly any help in a madVR thread, but it just seems to be dragging on. My paragraph quote was not over 2 pages long talking about nothing. :D

[ryrynz]

Yeah, I think that conversation is wrapped up basically anyway. You give OT about a page maybe two depending on who's involved.. xD

[Alexkral]

To compare better with UB9000. Very surprising how the RGB option is much better here:

MMFR - madVR tonemapping 10000 nits to 100 nits + gamut mapping (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1I7m9JRDRlXMI3Ab2p0vTuTyBqUfrW-Ct/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - BT.2390 Tonemapping 10000 nits to 100 nits with ICtCp Option + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1y6Xv_0OqIGGuh0AeipEMV-J30juZKvr5/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - BT.2390 Tonemapping 10000 nits to 100 nits with RGB Option + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Vqfd7o7nhzSWFiw-BIaVIDlUQ9Zus5-_/view?usp=sharing)

[Warner306]

Mad Max: Fury Road 28:29

MMFR - UB9000 HDR Optimizer Off (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1WceoLc3zIRY_ZYtDPEVmMQIspd7-lI0G/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - UB9000 HDR Optimizer On (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zukGQPcoOdkPxtrpnax0puHEaRC5uUgh/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - madVR tonemapping 10000 nits to 1000 nits + gamut mapping (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UCmNnhQWhteKSSkmxfTd4cMJs48-x5it/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - Clipping at 1000 nits + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dyf7zEIKH9b3joFpxlPtpdLR6N5GEfQj/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - BT.2390 Tonemapping 10000 nits to 1000 nits with ICtCp Option + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YXEBFark2Hk840PWiwYKUnKN4JE1eFjm/view?usp=sharing)
MMFR - BT.2390 Tonemapping 10000 nits to 1000 nits with RGB Option + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Jp4HHj8fjZkp2zNJC9BzyR8f9WAdyMvG/view?usp=sharing)

Those of the UB9000 look brighter because they are photos made to the screen and my TV is around 400 nits. In this scene the RGB option seems the best because the highlights are very saturated, but it is usually the worst because it desaturates too much as can be seen here:

Interstellar 1:34:38

Interstellar - BT.2390 Tonemapping 4000 nits to 400 nits with ICtCp Option + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YBPWSfy_drgQDqgv7U6kcV9l_r2geElh/view?usp=sharing)
Interstellar - BT.2390 Tonemapping 4000 nits to 400 nits with RGB Option + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/17YaEEsCPZMj5qXk_N8oQrwwwl3Z5L-eK/view?usp=sharing)

But madVR's gamut mapping seems to desaturate too much, like here:

X Men: Apocalypse 1:49:02

XMA - madVR Tonemapping to 400 nits + Gamut mapping (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1w8HA3zMvgIUZOw956r7wcr3WtUYSU0rZ/view?usp=sharing)
XMA - BT.2390 Tonemapping 10000 nits to 400 nits + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/18NFXiC-2qlhajt4xHNTovQmMah18uJto/view?usp=sharing)
XMA - BT.2390 Tonemapping 1000 nits to 400 nits + Transform Matrix (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uacCiDS4C3KMLJKcfl-17ImHMyb1eEaE/view?usp=sharing)

MadVR is the most desaturated of the three. Anyway, I'm not quite sure what madVR is doing here. It seems as if it's discarding the metadata and tonemapping from 10000 nits, but the white of the rays being so bright suggests that it's tonemapping from 1000 nits and the difference is due to gamut mapping vs. clipping.

EDIT: The UB9000 pictures are screenshots of the video posted by Warner306, but in the video they're photos taken to the screen.

This comparison was supposed to be between the UB9000 vs. madVR HDR -> HDR using shaders vs. madVR HDR -> SDR using shaders. All of your HDR images are showing HDR passthrough.

If you use shaders and output in HDR format, gamut mapping will be applied. The user who started this discussion was complaining about desaturation when outputting in an HDR format. HDR -> SDR looks color accurate in your last post. Maybe is it less sharp in a couple of the comparisons.

[mkohman]

Hi Guys,
Can someone please help me out with the "profile auto select rules" in madVR for downscaling 2160p to 1080p?

My friend has a 1080p projector but he downloads 2160p movies as he will get a 4K projector in the future but for now he wants to use madvr with KodiDSPLayer so can someone please remind me the source code I need to input into madVR please?

if (scrWidth)... etc etc..

Many thanks

[Warner306]

Try this:

if (srcHeight > 1080) "2160p"
else if (srcWidth > 1920) "2160p"

else if (srcHeight > 720) and (srcHeight <= 1080) "1080p"
else if (srcWidth > 1280) and (srcWidth <= 1920) "1080p"

else if (srcHeight > 540) and (srcHeight <= 720) "720p"
else if (srcWidth > 960) and (srcWidth <= 1280) "720p"

else if (srcHeight <= 540) and (srcWidth <= 960) "SD"


And check scale chroma separately under trade quality for performance.

[mkohman]

Try this:

if (srcHeight > 1080) "2160p"
else if (srcWidth > 1920) "2160p"

else if (srcHeight > 720) and (srcHeight <= 1080) "1080p"
else if (srcWidth > 1280) and (srcWidth <= 1920) "1080p"

else if (srcHeight > 540) and (srcHeight <= 720) "720p"
else if (srcWidth > 960) and (srcWidth <= 1280) "720p"

else if (srcHeight <= 540) and (srcWidth <= 960) "SD"


And check scale chroma separately under trade quality for performance.


Thank you so much.. This is to make everything 1080p right? Thank you :)

Also do I create a seperate 2160p folder under "scaling algorithms" in madvr or only a 1080p one? Thanks

[Warner306]

Create all of the folders above for any content that your friend has. Each profile will apply to each content type.

FYI, I just copy-and-pasted that code in one minute from the madVR guide in my signature.

[mkohman]

Create all of the folders above for any content that your friend has. Each profile will apply to each content type.

FYI, I just copy-and-pasted that code in one minute from the madVR guide in my signature.

Thank you :)

[Alexkral]

This comparison was supposed to be between the UB9000 vs. madVR HDR -> HDR using shaders vs. madVR HDR -> SDR using shaders. All of your HDR images are showing HDR passthrough.

If you use shaders and output in HDR format, gamut mapping will be applied. The user who started this discussion was complaining about desaturation when outputting in an HDR format. HDR -> SDR looks color accurate in your last post. Maybe is it less sharp in a couple of the comparisons.

What I'm saying is that the desaturation is because of madVR's gamut mapping, so I'm comparing madVR's HDR -> SDR using shaders and gamut mapping, with pixel shaders with the BT.2390 EETF and a simple transform matrix. All the images starting with "BT.2390" are the result of pixel shaders running on MPC-HC with the EETF and a transform matrix. I don't think that taking HDR screenshots is posible so I don't know how do you want to compare anything with madVR HDR -> HDR using shaders by means of screenshots.

[Warner306]

You would have to use a camera to make that comparison. I'm not sure if a phone camera is good enough. Using BT.2390 wouldn't be a good comparison with madVR's tone mapping because it is far more complicated than BT.2390 alone.

Gamut mapping is making a tradeoff between luminance and saturation. The less saturation, the more luminance and the more detail, but obviously the less color you have. Excessive desaturation is not supposed to be an issue.

[KoKlusz]

@Alexkral
MadVR's tonemapping goal is fidelity to the source, not to create the most pleasing image. The reason why explosions in Fury Road look desaturated like that is because that's how it would looked like on 10k nits BT2020 display.

[Alexkral]

Well of course you can always complicate it and try to make it better, you can add gamut mapping, integrate it with the tonemapping, add detail management, etc. I can't know everything madVR is doing. But the thing is that a very simple approach like this is more than comparable, sometimes even better. For example, it has always been said that doing the EETF in ICtCp gives more quality, and I agree, but here you can see how a very simple RGB EETF with BT.2020 clipping looks better. Of course I'm the first to admit that this is an exception. So at the end, trying to balance luminance and saturation is obviously the more wise, but not always the best.

[KoKlusz]

It may look subjectivity better, but it's not objectively better since it shows different image compared to what was encoded on disc. In other words, it's not faithful to the source.

[iron2000]

Recently there some sort of flipping static noise whenever madVR is used.
No noise if I switch to EVR.

The noise does not stop, it occurs throughout the whole of the video length.

I use MPC-HC, I have the seekbar and the black bar autohide.
If I pause the video its all quiet but if I trigger the hidden seekbar there will be that static noise.
The noise follows the mouse as it triggers and leave the trigger area for the seekbar, noise and no noise.

[Asmodian]

This is called coil whine, it is a weird and annoying hardware defect that manifests with very specific loads. :(

[Manni]

Recently there some sort of flipping static noise whenever madVR is used.
No noise if I switch to EVR.


If you use NGU, try to change the level. For example, I get an audible coil whine with NGU High but it goes down significantly with NGU Med.

[maxkill]

It may look subjectivity better, but it's not objectively better since it shows different image compared to what was encoded on disc. In other words, it's not faithful to the source.
Better is in the eye of the beholder. There is no right or wrong. Some people like a accurate representation of 'how it was meant to look' with as little deviation from this as possible while others prefer filters that change the image to make it more colorful or what have you.

[yok833]

Hi,

I have an LG OLED 2017 and i would like to know if the last experimentals builds of madvr and measurment file can improve the tone mapping of my tv or is it only reserved for videoprojector ?

What would be the right "min target / real display peak nits" for me ? Do I need tick "output video in HDR format" ?

In the settings of my tv do I need to turn off the "dynamic contrast" to let the madvr tone mapping do is job ?

Many thanks for your precious advices :) !!!

[tp4tissue]

This is called coil whine, it is a weird and annoying hardware defect that manifests with very specific loads. :(

If it's following the Mouse, it's not Coil whine.

It's CPU whine or GPU whine.

If you have a delidded chip, you can poke the core with a thin wooden stick while it's running (with whine), and hear the pitch of the whine change.

That's how they diagonse capacitor /coil whine in psus.



There's nothing one can do about it. piezoelectric effect

The noise can also dump into the analog audio out if you're using them.

For PC audio it's always best to use Optical. Or some sort of hdmi/usb setup with galvanic isolation. (which really just uses opto-couplers, which is essentially optical)

[tp4tissue]

Well, the name (eNVY) and the font/color used gave me an idea that if it is a processing box for non-HTPC use, then it might be software running on Tegra hardware - Shield TV (does it have HDMI in tho?) or more likely the newer Tegra modules. They have some GPU power and also lots of neural network acceleration for upscaling use. Not a cheap hardware though, similarly to FPGAs. (What do I win if true? :D )

So it's going to be a premium android app for the Shield ?

I'd buy it in a heart-beat if Madshi can turn the Shield into a 4K 3DLut box.

[Stan]

I have a small situation here and I narrowed it down to madvr

To repro:

Have a multi monitor setup
Open a movie on a secondary display
Full-screen it
Press Shift+Win+Arrow Left
The video moves to the other screen but freezes, every other display output is frozen as well, only the mouse cursor still moves.

madvr settings: https://i.imgur.com/4srk471.png

[huhn]

working totally fine here.

do you have more informations like different resolution refresh rate and stuff like?

[tp4tissue]

I have a small situation here and I narrowed it down to madvr

To repro:

Have a multi monitor setup
Open a movie on a secondary display
Full-screen it
Press Shift+Win+Arrow Left
The video moves to the other screen but freezes, every other display output is frozen as well, only the mouse cursor still moves.

madvr settings: https://i.imgur.com/4srk471.png


Doing stuff like that freezes ALOT of programs. :D

[Stan]

Resolution is 1080p on both, refresh rate is 60/50 hz.

[huhn]

i got a system freeze when moving from 1080p60 to 1080p120 screen with your setting.

>if< the source for the freeze is madVR not one of the other possible candidates it should be fixed ASAP in my opinion.

i will try to create a debug log but that'S not a lot of fun when you have to freeze your system.

[iron2000]

This is called coil whine, it is a weird and annoying hardware defect that manifests with very specific loads. :(
I too think this is it :(
I opened the casing while the video is going and heard it.

If you use NGU, try to change the level. For example, I get an audible coil whine with NGU High but it goes down significantly with NGU Med.
I turned it down to low but still hear it.

If it's following the Mouse, it's not Coil whine.

It's CPU whine or GPU whine.

If you have a delidded chip, you can poke the core with a thin wooden stick while it's running (with whine), and hear the pitch of the whine change.

That's how they diagonse capacitor /coil whine in psus.



There's nothing one can do about it. piezoelectric effect

The noise can also dump into the analog audio out if you're using them.

For PC audio it's always best to use Optical. Or some sort of hdmi/usb setup with galvanic isolation. (which really just uses opto-couplers, which is essentially optical)
Ordered an external sound card, hope it will be better.

Thanks for the replies :)

[madjock]

I too think this is it :(
I opened the casing while the video is going and heard it.


I turned it down to low but still hear it.


Ordered an external sound card, hope it will be better.

Thanks for the replies :)

Unsure how a sound card will fix this if you can hear it inside the case tbh.

[maxkill]

Unsure how a sound card will fix this if you can hear it inside the case tbh.

lmao :D

[jorsan]

Hi, just quick question: if you are in the market to spend up to 500,- in a gpu for HTPC only (no games or 3D movies) and get the most from madvr, what do you recomend?. Don't want to interrup the discussion but Im building a new HTPC, and your experience will help me to avoid mistakes. Thanks in avdance

[el Filou]

madshi recommends GeForce RTX series.
500 what currency?
If 500 EUR and you search for the lowest prices, you can find the lowest priced RTX 2070s for just under that.

[jorsan]

thanks for your reply. US dollars, but if performace rise for something little bit over my price, I can move up to 650,- for expample

[tp4tissue]

I too think this is it :(
I opened the casing while the video is going and heard it.


I turned it down to low but still hear it.


Ordered an external sound card, hope it will be better.

Thanks for the replies :)


External sound card will help with the noise that's dumping over on analog out if you connect to it via optical

if it's usb/ hdmi based input, then you have to make sure that the device has galvanic isolation couplers in its input circuit.


The PHYSICAL noise emitted from either the GPU or CPU due to Madvr, you can't do anything about that, except change to a different scaling setting.

You can also try using power modes on the cpu which force 100% or 50% peak frequency, which may help.

The same goes for the GPU, if you force one frequency, that sometimes fixes the noise.

[tp4tissue]

thanks for your reply. US dollars, but if performace rise for something little bit over my price, I can move up to 650,- for expample

Right now on the latest version of Madvr,

for 1080p material,

$150-170 used 1060gtx 6gb,

Ngu medium chroma,
Ngu very high luma,
Bicubic 2nd chroma

For 2.x : 1 ratio 1080p

Ngu high chroma
Ngu very high luma,
Ngu low 2nd chroma

for 4K w/ HDR, w/ highlight recover w/ tonemapping w/3dLut

Ngu low chroma



Going into the future, 1060 is clearly not going to cut the cheese if NGU is a priority.

I'm not totes sure the current higher GPU prices are worthwhile to pump that NGU, because you're really only getting better Chroma scaling on 4K, which you absolutely can not see the difference if the image is moving..

If you have alot of 1080p material, 1060 is more than adequate for that. You might consider a used 1070 for wiggle room..




1060 will give you a baseline. Everything below 1060 shouldn't be bought at this point.

Everything more expensive than the 1060 has QUESTIONABLE benefits. But the benefits ARE THERE.

[Stan]

i got a system freeze when moving from 1080p60 to 1080p120 screen with your setting.

>if< the source for the freeze is madVR not one of the other possible candidates it should be fixed ASAP in my opinion.

i will try to create a debug log but that'S not a lot of fun when you have to freeze your system.

oh that's great! thank you so much for your help! I had tested it with mpc-hc and mpc-be and it only happened when it was using madVR not when using their own presenter, so I was pretty sure it was mad!

[iron2000]

Unsure how a sound card will fix this if you can hear it inside the case tbh.

External sound card will help with the noise that's dumping over on analog out if you connect to it via optical

if it's usb/ hdmi based input, then you have to make sure that the device has galvanic isolation couplers in its input circuit.


The PHYSICAL noise emitted from either the GPU or CPU due to Madvr, you can't do anything about that, except change to a different scaling setting.

You can also try using power modes on the cpu which force 100% or 50% peak frequency, which may help.

The same goes for the GPU, if you force one frequency, that sometimes fixes the noise.

My PC case is padded so the physical whine is pretty silent from the outside.

The Xonar U7 MkII external sound card arrived.
Set it up and no more noise when using madVR.

Looks like the Xonar DX don't go well with a GTX 1060.

[tp4tissue]

My PC case is padded so the physical whine is pretty silent from the outside.

The Xonar U7 MkII external sound card arrived.
Set it up and no more noise when using madVR.

Looks like the Xonar DX don't go well with a GTX 1060.

Um.. well if you're using optical spdif input , then there shouldn't be any noise.

But if you're still using copper, the noise might be still there, but the card could have better muting-transistor/detection than your old analog out.

Either way, it looks like the xonar mk2 has optical, GO OPTICAL. !!:cool:

[madjock]

Either way, it looks like the xonar mk2 has optical, GO OPTICAL. !!:cool:

Analog Output
4 x 3.5 mm jack (1/8") (Headphone out /Side out/Center-Subwoofer out/Rear out)
2 x RCA (Un-Balanced)
Analog Input
1 x 3.5 mm jack (1/8") (Line-in/ Mic-in combo)
Digital
1 x S/PDIF out (1 x Coaxial)

Errrr :D

Think it comes with an optical adapter, but I still don't get how an external sound card can make any difference, unless its to do with a different headphone port, ah well as long as it is better.

Sounds similar : https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1840489#post1840489

http://bugs.madshi.net/view.php?id=575

[jorsan]

thanks for your replies