madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 1033

Warner306

2nd July 2018, 16:40

FSRCNNX is already sharper than NGU-AA, the SSIM variant is even more sharper.
Everybody knows the madshi's new algo is a motion interpolation one.

Great. Some screenshots would be nice. I'm just picturing you looking cross-eyed at the screen trying to figure out which image looks the sharpest. We're always glad when you stop by to share your observations, though.

Anima123

2nd July 2018, 17:44

Everybody knows the madshi's new algo is a motion interpolation one.

I really don't. Has he mentioned it elsewhere? I cannot recall he elaborate more on this in this thread.

pirlouy

2nd July 2018, 20:10

Never trust someone who asks for a new version regularly or calls project dead.

Aleksoid1978

3rd July 2018, 09:05

I tested latest Nvidia 398.36 drivers.
23.976 without any custom mode, default:
https://i.imgur.com/QXa4ehw.png

It's better then before(~23.971).

ryrynz

3rd July 2018, 10:57

Yeah, you can thank madshi in part for that.

mclingo

3rd July 2018, 13:44

looking at upgrading my lowly RX 4GB 460 to 570/480/580 - would 4GB be fully adequate or is there any advantage in MADVR for 8GB ram?

SamuriHL

3rd July 2018, 17:08

Yea, the latest set of nVidia drivers definitely has improved things and made movies watchable now. Which is great. Is it perfect? No. But it's better.

Asmodian

3rd July 2018, 17:21

looking at upgrading my lowly RX 4GB 460 to 570/480/580 - would 4GB be fully adequate or is there any advantage in MADVR for 8GB ram?

4GB seems to be plenty right now...

mclingo

3rd July 2018, 18:05

Nice one thanks, just picked up an 4GB RX 580 for £160, nice to see GFX cards coming back down to sensible prices, hoping to maybe get NGU sharp medium or even hight at least on this, I know polaris is a bit pants with MADVR but just too many issues with NVIDIA right now, AMD have their own issues too but I have workarounds for all of them.

waldnebel

4th July 2018, 08:38

@madshi: What exactly is causing not any single optimized pixel clock (regardless of what high estimated compatibility it has) not being accepted by the GPU driver? Is it a problem specific to Windows 10 due to a api change or a GPU driver related one?

It it easy for you to fix?

Warner306

4th July 2018, 16:18

Dorohedoro

4th July 2018, 17:35

waldnebel

4th July 2018, 20:04

It is most likely not compatible with your display. There is no fix other than to try another optimized clock.

I just tried all 32 available optimized pixel clock entries and every single entry got rejected.

It did worked more than a half year ago on that display.

Do you have a JVC projector?

I have just a simple UHD TV.

Warner306

4th July 2018, 20:15

Manni

4th July 2018, 21:15

If there isn’t, try creating one manually and enter the values from madVR for one of the modes that used to work before.

This is great in theory, but how do you create a CR in nVidia's CP and enter the value of the MadVR resolution when you can't enter a back porch value in the nVidia CP? That's what always stopped me from using the nVidia CP, because I was never able to reproduce the values of the MadVR CR. Maybe I am missing something?

hannes69

4th July 2018, 22:15

. Maybe I am missing something?

total pixels = visible(active) pixels + front porch + sync width + back porch

That´s the equation you need.
Obviously there are 5 variables, meaning one is redundant.
You don´t have to enter back porch in nvidia´s panel because when entering the other 4 variables, back porch is a direct consequence due to the equation above.
:cool:

And beside that
pixel clock = horizontal total * vertical total * refresh rate

That´s all about resolutions ;)

waldnebel

4th July 2018, 22:29

If it worked previously with the same equipment, it is driver issue. Before reinstalling your drivers or trying another driver version, visit the GPU control panel and see if there is a custom resolution in there. If there isnÂ’t, try creating one manually and enter the values from madVR for one of the modes that used to work before.

If a custom resolution is already present, you need to wipe your drivers and reinstall them. Driver upgrades can break previous custom resolutions and they often canÂ’t be deleted or overwritten.

I indeed see custom resolutions added by madVR in the control panel but it is not possible to edit them. After I set Standard to Manual and put all those values into the fields that test surprisingly accepts that modified resolution but if I come back to check those new values Standard is set to Automatic and probably edid values are used.

That custom resolution I can see in the GPU control panel is also not shown by the Custom Resolution Utility. Where exactly do I find them in CRU?

tzr916

4th July 2018, 22:40

We have Comcast cable tv. I mostly watch HD channels, but my GF watches a lot of Filipino SD channels. Some of the shows are 4x3, but many are letterbox with 4x3 commercials.

I'm very much a beginner with madVr - can Zoom Control zoom only the shows or parts of a show that are letterbox? What settings would I try within Zoom Control?

Thanks in advance.

Warner306

5th July 2018, 01:08

I indeed see custom resolutions added by madVR in the control panel but it is not possible to edit them. After I set Standard to Manual and put all those values into the fields that test surprisingly accepts that modified resolution but if I come back to check those new values Standard is set to Automatic and probably edid values are used.

That custom resolution I can see in the GPU control panel is also not shown by the Custom Resolution Utility. Where exactly do I find them in CRU?

I've never used the CRU utility. If you can't see any movement in madVR when playing content with that resolution, you are probably stuck.

After the last Windows update, I had to remove my drivers with DDU and start over with the custom resolution process. I don't like to recommend it to everyone, but it has happened twice after driver upgrades.

Maybe someone else can be of help with CRU?

waldnebel

5th July 2018, 08:44

I've never used the CRU utility. If you can't see any movement in madVR when playing content with that resolution, you are probably stuck.

After the last Windows update, I had to remove my drivers with DDU and start over with the custom resolution process. I don't like to recommend it to everyone, but it has happened twice after driver upgrades.

Maybe someone else can be of help with CRU?

I tried the oldest driver I could find on the nvidia website (version 388.71). I did a clean installation but the problem I had with the custom resolutions simply persisted.

The edid says my TV accepts pixel clocks up to 600Mhz but no single one madvr calculates seems to be accepted.

EDIT: @Warner306 Do you use FullHD or 4k resolutions? Does it matter at all?

jkauff

5th July 2018, 13:03

Maybe someone else can be of help with CRU?
CRU creates its custom resolutions at the operating system level, not the GPU level, so anything created using CRU will not show up as a customized resolution in the GPU Control Panel.

mclingo

5th July 2018, 15:06

mrmojo666

5th July 2018, 15:22

@MADSHI - AMD have been in contact with me regarding the two main issues we have with MADVR - 1. HDR toggle no longer working since 18.3.4 and blown out reds with SDR material @23,976 - since 16.8.1.

Is there anything you can tell me that you've tried or anything I can add to my replies, they are asking what diagnosis has been dont with MADVR itself being that both of these issues only seem to affect MADVR right now.

regarding HDR switch , if i remember well it doesn't work also with windows 10 internal player (aka movies & tv)

mclingo

5th July 2018, 16:24

its never worked with that, you've always had to turn it on manually with windows players.

brazen1

5th July 2018, 16:45

@MADSHI - AMD have been in contact with me regarding the two main issues we have with MADVR - 1. HDR toggle no longer working since 18.3.4 and blown out reds with SDR material @23,976 - since 16.8.1.

Is there anything you can tell me that you've tried or anything I can add to my replies, they are asking what diagnosis has been dont with MADVR itself being that both of these issues only seem to affect MADVR right now.

This guy can help you. A day ago he wrote:

"too many issues with NVIDIA right now, AMD have their own issues too but I have workarounds for all of them"

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1845821&postcount=51658

Seriously though, maybe your spare nVidia with a custom resolution is a better answer for you at this time.

Warner306

5th July 2018, 16:46

I tried the oldest driver I could find on the nvidia website (version 388.71). I did a clean installation but the problem I had with the custom resolutions simply persisted.

The edid says my TV accepts pixel clocks up to 600Mhz but no single one madvr calculates seems to be accepted.

EDIT: @Warner306 Do you use FullHD or 4k resolutions? Does it matter at all?

I'm using a Full HD resolution. I don't think that is your problem. Did you wipe your old drivers with DDU to get rid of the custom resolution in the control panel? After that, you should just create one manually and enter the information you wrote down yesterday. If you just upgraded the driver, you probably didn't remove the problem.

If this persists, I would guess something in the Windows Update is causing problems, or something in your configuration is different, but I couldn't guess what might have changed. I would try to avoid having madVR put any custom resolutions into the control panel that can't be edited or overwritten. Trying an 8-bit resolution might also help. Don't know.

mclingo

5th July 2018, 17:11

This guy can help you. A day ago he wrote:

"too many issues with NVIDIA right now, AMD have their own issues too but I have workarounds for all of them"

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1845821&postcount=51658

Seriously though, maybe your spare nVidia with a custom resolution is a better answer for you at this time.

oh please go away.

Crimson Wolf

5th July 2018, 18:49

@Warner306 He probably used the checkbox "clean installation" during install.

@waldnebel use DDU (http://www.guru3d.com/files-details/display-driver-uninstaller-download.html) in safe mode to remove all traces of nvidia files. Then install the latest driver. Before creating a custom res, try the default refresh rate first. Try playing a video for AT LEAST 15 minutes. The latest few nvidia drivers have improved something.

brazen1

5th July 2018, 19:39

I know this has come up in the past but I've run into it again: Weeding out some of my collection I came across Children of Dune (2003) encoded in 720p @50Hz. My intention was to see how CGI on this looks with madVR. Instead I was met with judder. Knowing I have a 2160p25 display mode madVR may switch to added, I checked NCP current resolution. It was 60Hz and my panel was reporting the same. 50 is a multiple of 25. nVidia and my panel should have switched but it didn't. My display is capable of 25Hz and 50Hz. So, I added 2160p50 to the list of resolutions madVR can switch to and everything then matched refresh rate and switched to 2160p @50Hz and the judder disappeared.

Fwiw, using match refresh rates with official KODI VideoPlayer also does not switch rates for this particular title and there is no where to tell it to. Thank you madVR. Other rates do switch.

I'm pondering if displays that only have rates of 23, 24, 25, and 60Hz take advantage of multiplying while displays that handle all refresh rates need to be specifically told which one even if it is a multiple.

My current list madVR may switch to now looks like this in case anyone notices the same and I don't think there are any side affects:

2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p30, 2160p48, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60

Asmodian

5th July 2018, 20:28

Nothing switchs to a 25 Hz mode when playing 50 Hz content. You would have to drop half the frames. :confused:

mclingo

5th July 2018, 21:19

I think the AMD RX 580 is a good used buy right now, £160 gets me NGU sharp very high on chroma and NGU sharp high on upscaling, sub 30ms rendering times.

very pleased with that.

leeperry

5th July 2018, 21:29

Gonna make the jump to 2160p and my 7850 won't hold a candle to it, FWIR here Polaris isn't too happy about NGU so how about a 80 bucks refurb R9 380 with 6 months warranty?

I only care about mVR so benchmarks appear to be irrelevant for mVR purposes? 7850 is da bomb with 13.12 drivers @1080p, I want the same but for 2160p and not for 200 bucks either if any possible :o
Any advice fellas? :thanks:

mclingo

5th July 2018, 21:37

dont think that card is a true 4k card, you'll only get a sub 60hz desktop at 4k, fine if you're not using your HTPC for anything else but I wonder if you'll have other issues with it not being a full 4k card with the increased HDMI bandwidth, you'll need to look into that.

you could pickup an RX 460 for about 60, you'll get NGU sharp low around 30ms rendering, that What I was getting prior.

EDIT pretty sure its HDMI 1.4 spec, unless there was a late HDMI 2.0 version?

strumf666

5th July 2018, 22:29

HDMI 1.4 is pretty limiting for 4k, 24/30hz and 8 bit color max. For HDMI 2.0 you need at least 4xx series.

Asmodian

5th July 2018, 23:00

I think the AMD RX 580 is a good used buy right now, £160 gets me NGU sharp very high on chroma and NGU sharp high on upscaling, sub 30ms rendering times.

It is odd to use very high for chroma but only high for image upscaling. In my testing I preferred NGU high over very high for chroma, it seems to look the same or better and uses a lot less power. ;)

I suppose you have enough GPU power for very high for chroma but even using low for chroma upscaling you cannot use NGU very high for image upscaling?

HDMI 1.4 is pretty limiting for 4k, 24/30hz and 8 bit color max. For HDMI 2.0 you need at least 4xx series.

Also the hardware decoders are not as good, 4K 10 bit HEVC takes a lot of CPU if you have to use software decoding.

ryrynz

6th July 2018, 00:52

I think the AMD RX 580 is a good used buy right now, £160 gets me NGU sharp very high on chroma and NGU sharp high on upscaling, sub 30ms rendering times.

very pleased with that.Save your resources and drop back to just high (chroma) The difference isn't worth it, it's quite minimal and I'm pretty picky.

Oh Asmodian beat me to it. Good man.

huhn

6th July 2018, 02:43

HDMI 1.4 is pretty limiting for 4k, 24/30hz and 8 bit color max. For HDMI 2.0 you need at least 4xx series.

you can do 12 bit with HDMI 1.4 at UHD

Warner306

6th July 2018, 04:07

I think the AMD RX 580 is a good used buy right now, £160 gets me NGU sharp very high on chroma and NGU sharp high on upscaling, sub 30ms rendering times.

very pleased with that.

It’s a card that could make you take up video games. With games, it sometimes outperforms the GTX 1060. It’s not surprising that it has enough power to handle madVR.

strumf666

6th July 2018, 05:29

you can do 12 bit with HDMI 1.4 at UHD
Perhaps with crappy subsampling and at 23,967Hz. Considering a large portion of this thread is about how practically none of commercially available screens are able to properly display >8bit colors and reduced picture quality because of subsampling I would count this as irrelevant, but that is just my opinion. Oh and I almost forgot the potential for flickering when the camera is panning if the display isn't able to properly display 23,976Hz since higher refresh rate isn't possible at this settings.

huhn

6th July 2018, 05:36

RGB 12 bit UHD 30 HZ is the maximum that's about 9 GB of the 10GB.

flickering, LCD and refreshrate?

strumf666

6th July 2018, 05:47

1.4 bandwithd is 8.16Gbit/s?

Find a crappy display incapable of properly displaying 23,976 and a clip with a panning scene... flickers like crazy. Then set the refresh to 60 and flickering stops.

huhn

6th July 2018, 06:02

it'd depends on how you look at it 8/10 encoding.
it'S 10 vs 18 or 8 vs 14.4.
sample hold displays don't flicker end of story i know what you are talking about "judder" but 60 hz doesn't fix this it's madVR fixing this issue.
and mybe it was 24/25 only.
and to be fair the HDMI spec is not crystal clear. 4:2:0 is only part of 50/60 HZ and doesn't work with lower refreshrates.
and 10 bit or higher may only work at HDMI chips with HDMI 2.0 "support" like nvidia has.
not here to promote HDMI 1.4 HDMI 2.0 is clearly better and it would be sad if this isn't the case but this doesn't change that devices try to run in a mode that has the bandwidth of HDMI 1.4.

strumf666

6th July 2018, 06:12

Fair enough.

mclingo

6th July 2018, 10:25

It is odd to use very high for chroma but only high for image upscaling. In my testing I preferred NGU high over very high for chroma, it seems to look the same or better and uses a lot less power. ;)

I suppose you have enough GPU power for very high for chroma but even using low for chroma upscaling you cannot use NGU very high for image upscaling?

Also the hardware decoders are not as good, 4K 10 bit HEVC takes a lot of CPU if you have to use software decoding.

I tired that first but it NGU very high on upscaling pushes rendering over 30ms for 1080p material, still doable i guess, I could create some profiles in MADVR but I prefer to keep things simple.

I think i'll drop to high though anyway as the card gets a tad noisy with the weather the way it is right now, it was 30degrees in my lounge last night, I could fry an egg on my HTPC !..

Thanks all for your responses.

ryrynz

6th July 2018, 13:56

Yeah I will prefer to keep max at ~30ms or so as well, otherwise things get a bit toasty in my HTPC as well as the fan speed ramping up to levels I'd rather them not be at.

jmone

6th July 2018, 23:16

Any, advice on MadVR / nvidia settings and versions for JVC X7500? After trying different combos of versions and settings I can't seem to find a combo that:
- Minimises Repeated Frames (eg custom modes or a nvidia version that is close)
- NVidia Settings that stick for RGB 12-Bit for both UHD@23.796 / YCbCr422 for UHD@50/60p (or just RGB 8-Bit as I only have the one UHD HDR BD @ 60p)
- Windows HDR that does not keep turning ON when the video finishes playing and you are back to the desktop

If the above can not be done, should I try HDR to SDR conversion in madVR, or... just use YCbCr422 for all resolutions, or.... ?

Currently I'm also "stuck" on madVR V92.4 (that comes bundled with JRiver) as the most recent madVR versions have a bug where Menu Item Text can be drawn off screen.... I've a 1070 on this HTPC.

Asmodian

7th July 2018, 00:39

- NVidia Settings that stick for RGB 12-Bit for both UHD@23.796 / YCbCr422 for UHD@50/60p (or just RGB 8-Bit as I only have the one UHD HDR BD @ 60p)

Use 8-bit RGB with ordered or error diffusion dithering. High quality dithering keeps much of the data from madVR's 16 bit internal bitdepth, preventing banding and adding very little noise when converting to 8 bit. This is the highest quality option, much better than using 4:2:2.

However, this is assuming your projector does not use 4:2:2 internally. Use the http://madshi.net/madVR/ChromaRes.png. It is 1920x1080, view it at 100%, no zoom/resize.

- Windows HDR that does not keep turning ON when the video finishes playing and you are back to the desktop

I never have any issues with this, with a Titan XP connected to a 2017 LG OLED TV. Do you ever turn it on? Leave it disabled.

If the above can not be done, should I try HDR to SDR conversion in madVR, or... just use YCbCr422 for all resolutions, or.... ?

My TV works better with 8 bit input, I have more banding with 12 bit, but that is my TV's fault. :(

However, I would still much rather send my TV 8 bit RGB over 12 bit 4:2:2, unless it was in a mode that used 4:2:2 processing internally, even for HDR. Using 4:2:2 blurs two out of three image planes to 50% of their resolution horizontally. This damages the two chroma planes a lot. Humans do see color weirdly but this is still worse than well dithered 8 bit. The source is 4:2:0 but madVR has very good chroma upscaling, especially with a 1070. :)