madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Nilsou]

After upgrading to Windows 11, mpc-be can no longer enter into Fullscreen Exclusive Mode (8-bit or 10-bit) with Madvr V0.92.17. It is always fullscreen windowed. Previously it was working on Windows 10. Anyone else having the same issue? Thanks.

Hi, i just notice that i have a problem with the last version of MPC-BE, even on Windows 10 : Mad VR fail to switch the display mode (it work fine with my previous version).
Maybe it is related ...

[Klaus1189]

@Nilsou: What GPU do you use? What driver is installed? On my system it works fine with Win10.

[Nilsou]

Hi, GTX1070 and last driver. The problem appears when i change the version from MPC-BE for the last one ... at this point the Madvr renderer work fine but the automatic switch between display mode does not work ...

[ashlar42]

@ashlar42

EL is short for Enhancement Layer when it comes to Dolby Vision. For profile 7 this is basically the difference between Dolby Vision/dynamic HDR and static HDR (at best). Without the EL, it's not a compliant Dolby Vision bitstream.

It'd be like if manufacturers claimed to support TrueHD Atmos tracks, but dropped the actual Atmos metadata.

EDIT: I should say I have no idea what Zidoo or Dune are actually doing. If they are simply dropping then EL from Dolby Vision content, then that's bad. If they're doing something else with the data, that'd be different.
Thank you. I still hope for an HTPC solution, sooner or later. For Dolby Vision, I mean. Some reverse engineering, I don't know.

All protections have been overcome, with time. I hope something similar will happen for DV.

[Klaus1189]

Hi, GTX1070 and last driver. The problem appears when i change the version from MPC-BE for the last one ... at this point the Madvr renderer work fine but the automatic switch between display mode does not work ...

- What OS?
- What driver exactly?
- What version of MPC-BE exactly? -> Latest 1.6.1 stable release or latest nightly build (Exact build version)?
- Do you use refresh rate switching in MPC-BE or in madVR?
- What filters do you use? -> Internal MPC-BE filters or external LAV Filters?
- Could you please play a video, rightclick and post the filterslist here?

[Siso]

I have an odd bug with SDR 3dlut made in DisplayCal and "enable windowed overlay" in madvr. I'm on AW3420DW which is wide gamut, although madvr doesn't detect it like wide gamut. So in short when using windowed overlay, I think it applies something twice - the levels maybe, resulting in a very dark picture... Does it use dci-p3 in windowed overlay, and ignores the sRGB calibration?

[huhn]

the mode when working correctly do not care about colorspaces they just render RGB images where the color space does not matter.

windowed overlay captures ICM/ICC profiles differently to the other modes is a ICM/ICC profile used?

[Siso]

the mode when working correctly do not care about colorspaces they just render RGB images where the color space does not matter.

windowed overlay captures ICM/ICC profiles differently to the other modes is a ICM/ICC profile used?

Everything is normal without windowed overlay. Yet I find windowed overlay pretty stable. I have no idea why does it have this strange bug.

[Polopretress]

hello.
Someone can give me how to display the "advanced" CTRL J to check the timing of each processing ?
Thank you.

[Asmodian]

Put a folder in madVR's directory called "ShowRenderSteps".

[mambans]

Hello, I just recently noticed when I play HDR content with Potplayer + Madvr my Potplayer crashes with a Potplayer64.dll error (Unhandle exeption 0xC0000005@0x00007FF805971631 at PotPlayer64.dll).
I tried other renders in Potplayer and it doesn't crash so I'm guessing it's Madvr.

I'm wondering if anyone else have had this problem?

Potplayer v.220302(1.7.21620).
Win 11 22000.493

[Polopretress]

Put a folder in madVR's directory called "ShowRenderSteps".
:thanks:

[Polopretress]

Hello, I just recently noticed when I play HDR content with Potplayer + Madvr my Potplayer crashes with a Potplayer64.dll error (Unhandle exeption 0xC0000005@0x00007FF805971631 at PotPlayer64.dll).
I tried other renders in Potplayer and it doesn't crash so I'm guessing it's Madvr.

I'm wondering if anyone else have had this problem?

Potplayer v.220302(1.7.21620).
Win 11 22000.493
Not on my side but i can say that i have since long time some potplayer "no responding" from time to time.
in fact, it can happened when i switch a lot of time of video (close/open/colse/open /etc...)
in this case, the video does not begin to run and potpayer is not responding.

The only way to close the player is to kill the task.
This can be a real issue when using exclusive mode since you cannot really have the possibility to kill the task properly... and sometime you need to swith off the computer by the reset button to kill windows !!!
Then , it is one of the reason why i do not use exclusive mode at all.

Does your problem is linked to the fact that you are under Win11 ?

[mambans]

Not on my side but i can say that i have since long time some potplayer "no responding" from time to time.
in fact, it can happened when i switch a lot of time of video (close/open/colse/open /etc...)
in this case, the video does not begin to run and potpayer is not responding.

The only way to close the player is to kill the task.
This can be a real issue when using exclusive mode since you cannot really have the possibility to kill the task properly... and sometime you need to swith off the computer by the reset button to kill windows !!!
Then , it is one of the reason why i do not use exclusive mode at all.

Does your problem is linked to the fact that you are under Win11 ?

Hi, that's seems very annoying. Sad there aren't many other players with support for Madvr. (mpc-hc exists but not under development anymore), right? :)

I don't think it is win11 since it only stopped working like 1-3 weeks ago and worked fine before that.

Could very much be some NVIDIA driver or win11 update and I haven't reverted those yet.

[Klaus1189]

Try MPC-BE. I use it for many years, very actively developed:
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=165890

Latest stable release is 1.6.1 and can be downloaded here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/mpcbe/files/MPC-BE/Release%20builds/1.6.1/

AND: I don't get any error message or crash or hang with MPC-BE.

[Asmodian]

Sad there aren't many other players with support for Madvr. (mpc-hc exists but not under development anymore), right? :)

Zoom Player (my favorite), JRiver Media Center, MPC-BE, and MPC-HC is still being updated (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=175209).

[clsid]

MPC-HC has had 1347 commits since you started living under a rock :eek:
So, yeah, it is still very actively developed. :D

[mambans]

Oh thanks a lot of the player recommendations, will check them out and see if Madvr works.

[Siso]

Oh thanks a lot of the player recommendations, will check them out and see if Madvr works.

Personally, I've tried a lot of players, but for me MPC-HC remains the best stable player.

[Polopretress]

For me, even with this small problem that pop-up sometime but in specific conditions, my favorite stays PotPlayer.
1. for the clock deviation that is converging to zero.
2. for the capability to build several auto loadable profil. (even if this function is now less important than in the past)

[mclingo]

KODI DS-Better-GUI is still my weapon of choice for playing movies:

https://forum.kodi.tv/showthread.php?tid=351534

However I use MPC-HC as back backup player for MADVR and MPC-BE using standard renderer to quickly preview movies and for general playback.

[QBhd]

Been on PotPlayer forever... I don't even update it, it just works. Still on version 200204 (1.7.21126)... and I could probably be on an older one if I had stopped the pointless updating earlier.

QB

[mambans]

I tried MPC-BE but unfortunately it would freeze and crash whenever I try fast-forward an 4K HDR video. I went back to Potplayer and installed a previous version and now it works again. Think I will stick with Potplayer since It have been the most stable for me (barely any problems until now), more settings and a much better looking UI imo.

[Klaus1189]

I tried MPC-BE but unfortunately it would freeze and crash whenever I try fast-forward an 4K HDR video. I went back to Potplayer and installed a previous version and now it works again. Think I will stick with Potplayer since It have been the most stable for me (barely any problems until now), more settings and a much better looking UI imo.

A crash is likely a driver issue or "older GPU issue".
What GPU do you use?

Perhaps you are comparing software decoding with DXVA or even a D3D11 issue?

Please start MPC-BE, play a video, rightclick -> Filters -> MPC Video Decoder
Then see what is selcted as preferred decoder on the left vertically in the middle of the window? It should be "D3D11" but this could lead to problems if the GPU has problems with it.
Set it on DXVA. Problem solved?

[mambans]

I did a fresh install of MPC-BE and it seems to be working now. I'll try it out a bit more.


I have an NVIDIA 3080 I i use LAV video and audio decoder with Madvr so I have no "Filers->MPC Video Decoder".
I use Lav and Madvr for both MPC-BE and Potplayer.
https://i.imgur.com/ALZzFkB.png
https://i.imgur.com/zgWxBcR.png
https://i.imgur.com/uJiSYG3.png

[Klaus1189]

Glad it works for you now. But I can ensure you, that the internal Filters of MPC-BE work very fine. You are currently using LAV Filters for Decoding, but still using Internal Filters as Source Filters.
Just do a test and only use internal Filters. You will see exactly the same features and also rocksolid (not a single crash, hang or whatever) in combo with my RTX 3090 :p

[mambans]

Thanks, I'll check out the internal MPC filters. My biggest problem atm tho is the subtitles. When using the internal subtitle renderer the subtitles looks bad so I tried the XySubFilter but the settings doesn't seem to do anything half the time and the program disappears from the system tray so I have to reinstall it. I'll try and mess around with it a bit more. Might you have any other subtitle renderer recommendations?

[Klaus1189]

Options -> Subtitles -> Rendering -> Set "Maximum texture resolution:" to "Desktop"
Does that help?

Normally you don't need anything else besides MPC-BE, except madVR or MPC Video Renderer, also from developers of MPC-BE :)

[mambans]

Options -> Subtitles -> Rendering -> Set "Maximum texture resolution:" to "Desktop"
Does that help?

Normally you don't need anything else besides MPC-BE, except madVR or MPC Video Renderer, also from developers of MPC-BE :)

Ah oh missed that option, thanks that helped.

[mclingo]

Hi, been having this issue for a while, not sure how long possible when I installed one of the laster windows 10 versions or maybe a AND driver, months, if not a year or more. Sometimes when I stop a movie and come back to desktop my desktop has changed to 16:9 instead of being in "full scan" mode, this is annoying as it cuts off a small portion of the task bar so I have to pickup my TV remote and change it back.

Any idea what in MADVR or maybe KODI DS might be causing this, I only switch resolution in a player with MADVR so I'm not sure if its MADVR or the player.

any ideas?

EDIT: it doesnt do it every time either, even with same movie which is odd and will make it difficult to diagose I guess.

[giraffejumper]

I've been experimenting with different sharpeners since my Epson 5050ub definitely requires them.
Adaptive Sharpen plus Anti Bloat seems to look nicely.
Would I also want to use Anti-ringing with that?
Or would it be unnecessary/boggle things up?
Also, if anyone knows a better way, PLEASE feel free to share!
Thanks!

Also, is it adding TOO much chance for artifacts to also use Detail Enhancement with Adaptive?

[ryrynz]

What I would say is to beware of adding things that provide little to no benefit. Enable them and see if it's worth the performance trade off. The content will matter, your projector setup will affect wether certain enhancements are kinda obvious or not. There's no hard n fast rule here.

[mark0077]

Hi, been having this issue for a while, not sure how long possible when I installed one of the laster windows 10 versions or maybe a AND driver, months, if not a year or more. Sometimes when I stop a movie and come back to desktop my desktop has changed to 16:9 instead of being in "full scan" mode, this is annoying as it cuts off a small portion of the task bar so I have to pickup my TV remote and change it back.

Any idea what in MADVR or maybe KODI DS might be causing this, I only switch resolution in a player with MADVR so I'm not sure if its MADVR or the player.

any ideas?

EDIT: it doesnt do it every time either, even with same movie which is odd and will make it difficult to diagose I guess.

I vaguely remember something like this on an old Samsung Series 9 back in 2008~ timeframe. In that case, it used to have a just scan mode and a 16:9 mode, and I believe when the display was in PC mode and in certain PC resolutions it was able to stay in one of the modes. When I used another non PC resolution / hz I think that's when it flipped out of PC mode while in that resolution / hz that it didn't support as a "PC mode", and it switched back to the other 16:9/just scan. I can't remember the exact scenario but it was related to PC mode.

Are you using madVR to change resolution/hz depending on the content. If so, Is it worth seeing if even manually switching resolution/hz in the display settings, makes this occur for you to narrow it down.

[mclingo]

I vaguely remember something.

Hi, i'm starting to think it a driver issue but its intermittent, I also tried a few different things with the settings on the GPU iself but nothing made any different, the most stable I can get it is set everything to full scan and then just drop it back to that when it occasionally changes it to 16:9, it dont understand why its intermittent though, for instance it hasnt done it in the last week at all but sometimes it will do it whenever I play a movie, crazy.

[mark0077]

Hi, i'm starting to think it a driver issue but its intermittent, I also tried a few different things with the settings on the GPU iself but nothing made any different, the most stable I can get it is set everything to full scan and then just drop it back to that when it occasionally changes it to 16:9, it dont understand why its intermittent though, for instance it hasnt done it in the last week at all but sometimes it will do it whenever I play a movie, crazy.

Ahhh damn. I see your using an LG OLED. I have not seen this with my own C9 / C1's but I permanently use PC mode. Is that something you are using there, its always in a just scan / just show what comes from the source type of mode (which I think is confusingly called 16/9 when in PC mode haha as just scan is greyed out.

[EternalStudent]

Where can I find more debug logging information? Like which of the optional or automatic values are being used. I can see lots on the ctrl + j debug OSD view, but I don't see everything there. The closest my searches have turned up were people mentioning a log file they wanted to remove/stop, but I can't find an option to enable it.

And is there a good way to test dithering settings? Specifically to compare rendering/dithering/Error Diffusion - option 1 vs 2. I'm imagining a video or image to display. I don't know how it's triggered to pick one myself.

Actually that's a question for a lot of these settings. Yes, I've read through a few settings explanation sources as a starting point. I mean I can guess (use a window smaller than native video resolution for "downscaling", for instance), but I don't know when I'm triggering the various scaling algorithms to compare the effects of setting changes. That's partially what I hoped to see in a more detailed log.

Thanks in advance!

[mclingo]

Ahhh damn. I see your using an LG OLED. I have not seen this with my own C9 / C1's but I permanently use PC mode. Is that something you are using there, its always in a just scan / just show what comes from the source type of mode (which I think is confusingly called 16/9 when in PC mode haha as just scan is greyed out.

Hi, PC mode has never worked for me with my AMD card, its had a driver bug for ages, wrong colour space output, however I would not use it anyway as I lilke to have a little motion interpolation on, which is permanently disabled in PC MODE, this help to smooth edges on 24p material which can look bad in fast moving scenes due to the very high pixel response time on OLEDS, LED's dont have this issue as frames are smeared due to lower pixel response times.

I recently bough a samsung AU8000 for the bedroom and where its a really good TV for the price I was surpised buy how soft the picture can look compared to me OLED in moving scenes due to this, another reason not to go back to LED for my main HTPC TV :)

[QBhd]

Agreed... I use a TruMotion setting of just 2 and 0. It's just enough to reduce the jitter whilst not introducing any SOE (Soap Opera Effect). But my main reason for NOT using PC mode still remains banding of HDR content.

QB

[mclingo]

thinking about it PC mode has never worked on mine properly, its always shown movies in the wrong colour space, so its probs not an AMD issue. The issue is hard to explain, its very washed out in SDR and HDR, its like the TV thinks I'm sending a 16-235 signal when i'm sending a 0-255 so thats washed out, but when I actually sent it a 16-235 signal its twice as washed out, if you know what I mean.

Just glad i dont have to use PC mode for anything :)

My next TV will likely be a QD OLED once the tech has matured a couple of years.

[kolak]

I think I asked it before but can't find the answer.

Can today's GPU take YUV data and pass it to its HDMI (and to the display) as YUV without any conversion?
Or do we inevitably have to go over RGB (YUV->RGB->YUV)?

[huhn]

they can but it is practically useless.
madVR output is always RGB.

also video 4:2:0 doesn't have to match with the 4:2:0 used in HDMI the 4:2:0 in BD and UHD don't even match.

[kolak]

It's not useless for people (mainly broadcast) who want to keep YUV chain as they think it's better (even if at the end it will be converted to RGB or equivalent:))
I'm just interested with possibility to avoid going over RGB- chroma subsampling is irrelevant.
I'm sure in old days it was not possible, so if it's now then good.

[huhn]

yeah who cares if the chroma is in the wrong position.
it's most likely still not possible on windows in general

[nevcairiel]

GPUs can technically do it, but Windows is always dealing in RGB, so you would have to do quite some trickery to make it work. Nothing consumer-focused mediaplayers would ever bother with.

[kolak]

Ok, thank you.

[chros]

It's not useless for people (mainly broadcast) who want to keep YUV chain as they think it's better (even if at the end it will be converted to RGB or equivalent:))
I'm just interested with possibility to avoid going over RGB- chroma subsampling is irrelevant.
I'm sure in old days it was not possible, so if it's now then good.

GPUs can technically do it, but Windows is always dealing in RGB, so you would have to do quite some trickery to make it work. Nothing consumer-focused mediaplayers would ever bother with.

Also, only recently possible with certain refresh rates (high ones) to put out untouched 4:2:0, probably due to performance considerations, otherwise it needs to be upscale to 4:2:2 every time, so chroma up scaling is needed anyway.

[huhn]

it still has the chroma subsample position issue.

4:2:0 can be done at most refresh rates and resolution it's simply not supported by any end device.

if the bandwidth and frame rate falls into HDMI 1.4 range than 4:2:0 is usually (if not always) not available because HDMI 1.4 doesn't know what that is and devices like to keep such a signal HDMI 1.4 complain because that's much better supported.

[flossy_cake]

Hey guys, is 23.976hz actually 23.977hz? CRU seems to think it is:

https://i3.lensdump.com/i/rXkizk.png

The above timing parameters are confirmed by this company Extron which makes broadcast quality equipment:

https://i3.lensdump.com/i/rXkThm.png
https://www.extron.com/product/videotools.aspx

My TV is set to the above timings, and MadVR's Ctrl+J is reporting 23.977hz:

https://i1.lensdump.com/i/rXkMCa.png

23.977hz seems incorrect to me as it would result in 1 frame repeat every 16 minutes or so (1/0.001/60=16). Ctrl+J reports 1 repeat frame every 12 minutes.

Unfortunately I can only nudge the refresh rate +/-0.002hz, so I cannot improve it.

I've tried using this caculator (https://www.monitortests.com/pixelclock.php) to generate a -0.001hz timing, but the result on Ctrl+J always snaps to the nearest multiple of 0.002hz -- my system doesn't seem to have enough clock granularity to do a 0.001hz adjustment. With my other GPU I can only get a granularity of +/-0.003hz.

I've tried toggling HPET without effect (cmd.exe: bcdedit /set useplatformclock true). My BIOS doesn't appear to have a setting, so I leave it at default value of false.

So I'm confused: CRU, Extron and Ctrl+J seem to be indicating that 23.977hz is the result of "correct" timings.

But on the other hand, I can't imagine Bluray players having a repeated frame every 16 minutes. That seems far too often, and I've already noticed it in a 22 minute sitcom.

Or do Bluray players perhaps sync the audio slightly faster to 23.977hz like Reclock does?

[huhn]

the acutual number you see at the top is not important what matter is your repeate dropped frame interval which means you have to much the speed of the audio clock which doesn't happen by blindly targeting a number like 23.976.

give this read a try: http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html

[flossy_cake]

the acutual number you see at the top is not important what matter is your repeate dropped frame interval which means you have to much the speed of the audio clock which doesn't happen by blindly targeting a number like 23.976.

Thanks & I was aware of that already.

Still, I can logically deduce by the fact that Ctrl+J reports 1 repeat every 12 minutes @ 23.977hz, that if the monitor refresh was the expected 23.976hz, the repeat value would be significantly better:

Current: 23.977hz with 12 minute repeat = -0.001388hz needed to fix (1/(12*60))

If refresh rate was the expected 23.976hz: 1 repeat every 43 minutes ((1/(0.001388 - 0.001))/60)