madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[XMonarchY]

Why is it none of these refresh rate tools and utilities have color depth entries?

There is also good old Windows 10 versioning issue. In the the latest 1809-17763 there is no option for me to select 12bit in any refresh rate mode other than 60Hz and 59Hz, but in 1607-14393 there definitely was 12bit available for 23-24Hz range.

MadVR mode tool sets 1809 to 24Hz 8bit and 1607 to 24Hz BLANK bit (presumably BLANK bit = 12bit).

[madjock]

Why is it none of these refresh rate tools and utilities have color depth entries?

There is also good old Windows 10 versioning issue. In the the latest 1809-17763 there is no option for me to select 12bit in any refresh rate mode other than 60Hz and 59Hz, but in 1607-14393 there definitely was 12bit available for 23-24Hz range.

MadVR mode tool sets 1809 to 24Hz 8bit and 1607 to 24Hz BLANK bit (presumably BLANK bit = 12bit).

I can select 12 bit in NVCP panel in 1809 but obviously cant get it to stick in a custom res in the NVCP.

I am using 416.34.

[madjock]

This is just wrong. You can get 10-bit/12-bit output on any modern GPU, depending on monitor support.

It is far from wrong, it is stated everywhere nVidia wise anyway that you need a Pro card to get 10bit like a Quadro, hence why we can only select 8 or 12bit. 10 bit they have reserved for Direct X games as far as I can read up on


While this is true for now, its also irrelevant. We use 12-bit because thats what NVIDIA gives you with many HDMI TVs. Its either 8 or 12, and if you can output 10-bit with madVR, then clearly 12 is the only mode to actually preserve those 10-bits, because 8 would reduce it.

The majority of people myself included have an 8bit TV with FRC to make it 10, so am I going to see an improvement going from 12 to 10 on a fake 10 bit TV anyway ? are we not all talking about dithering in one way or another, would we see any extra colours, because again all I can read is it is due to banding issues so I have really no idea if it is better to stay at 8bit as we could never tell anyway ?

[nevcairiel]

It is far from wrong, it is stated everywhere by nVidia that you need a Pro card to get 10bit like a Quadro, hence why we can only select 8 or 12bit.

You are just plain out wrong. If you have a monitor which only accepts 10-bit, and not 12-bit, then NVIDIA will offer you 10-bit output on consumer cards. I know, because I'm looking at it right this second with just such a monitor.

Please stop spreading your half-knowledge. The only thing you need Quadro for is 10-bit OpenGL output, which has some weird historical reasons.
I encourage you to read up on this topic, which has been discussed countless times in this very thread already. You don't need a Pro card for 10-bit. And what logic would that even be, why would 10-bit be limited to Pro cards, but 12-bit be allowed? Clearly 12 is superior to 10 if its fully supported, since its even more bits.

The reason you get 12-bit on HDMI TVs is that they only offer the highest bitdepth the display supports, which in that case is 12. It has nothing to do with "Pro" at all. If you have a screen which only supports 10-bit, like some PC monitors, then it'll offer 10-bit output in the control panel. There is absolutely no "Pro" limitation whatsoever here. 10-bit or 12-bit are used for proper HDR output even by the OS itself, as well as games. One doesn't game on Pro cards much.

[el Filou]

10-bit or 12-bit are used for proper HDR output even by the OS itself, as well as games.Do you mean Windows is able to 'force' 10-bit output for native OS HDR even if NVIDIA doesn't make the option available in its control panel? Or is the OS HDR mode ultimately converted to the output setting that is selected in NVIDIA's control panel?

[huhn]

no it is just sending an image to the GPU driver and the GPU does what ever it wants to do with it. the driver has to make the image fit the signal needed for the end device.

but you can always, even on 8 bit screen, throw 10 or even 16 bit at the head of the driver.

10 bit output is pretty important for games game developer never learn or cared about dithering and high bit deep buffering. banding in skys is just the norm in games that render in 10 bit.

and why not simply put the nail in the coffin AMD can send 10 bit AMD can even do 6.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Re Nvidia - there is a way to get 12 bit out and survive a reboot with later drivers.

Use CRU to create the custom res, and then go into the NCP and select "use default colour settings"....however, you're not done yet, as this will change the output to Limited range.....so, next download this tool to force Full RGB for everything (link http://blog.metaclassofnil.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/NV_RGBFullRangeToggle.zip). exctract, run and select force Full range and reboot.....all good to go now for custom res for 23.976 at full range with 12 bit.

Job done.

[huhn]

you may want to have a look at madleveltweaker.exe

[oldpainlesskodi]

Yeah, but wasnt sure if it merely enabled Full range, or forced Full range for everything - but good to know.

[Warner306]

12-bit YCbCr 4:2:2 is all that is available for Blu-ray players as part of the HDMI 2.0 spec at 60 Hz. There is no 10-bit YCbCr 4:2:2. So the UHD format was designed for 12-bit output. I doubt 10-bits would make much of a difference unless the GPU is doing a poor conversion. Current UHD displays are supposed to be designed for 12-bit YCbCr 4:2:2.

[huhn]

HDMI 2.0 can do 10 bit 4:2:2 YCbCr and TV support it that one of the rare cases where nvidia is doing 10 bit.
a bd player should use 4:2:0 10 bit for 60 hz HDR that's lossless.

i'm not sure where this 12 bit comes from because PC don't really support it. you could do it with 16 bit and let the driver do the rest but still.

[madjock]

You are just plain out wrong.

So you keep saying.

Here is the thing though, so you think nVidia out of the goodness of their hearts have let us have the option of 12bit to help us out, you are quite delusional.

The 10bit is for graphic designers and the likes, if you choose to ignore this fact which is all over the web, then good for you mate.

Does it make any sense no, but it is what it is, if it was that simple we would have no 8bit, as surely nVvidia would want what is the best for us and it would default to 12 bit straight away, like no breaking drivers every 2nd release and fluid 23.976 frame rates etc etc, and of course 12 bit stays there after a reboot unless you frig something.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Setting-Graphics-Card-Software-to-Display-10-bit-Output-1221/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/55oq07/tech_support_how_do_i_go_about_enabling_10_bit/
https://forums.evga.com/gtx-1080-support-for-10-bit-display-m2510043.aspx
https://devtalk.nvidia.com/default/topic/985731/linux/gtx-1060-375-26-not-output-10-bit-color/post/5078463/
https://www.eizoglobal.com/support/compatibility/gpu/photoshopcc2017_18-nvidia-amd/



But lets leave that there.

[huhn]

the professional 10 bit is using openGL on a 8 bit surface to hack the 2 missing bits in the alpha channel. and programs that use that you need a professional card to get 10 bit in the GPU driver. the GPU output has nothing todo with this!

since windows 7 we have 10 bit output to the GPU using directx 11 on any consumer card. you just need a fullscreen exclusive d3d11 surface and this is obviously not usable for photoshop but easily with game or a video renderer.

high bit deep output is a well known and for years used feature of madVR.

do you even read your links? https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3011/kw/10%20bit

[iSeries]

Question about madVR 10bit output - if I have set 12bit in the gpu driver, and the source is 8bit, does madVR dither to 8bit or 10bit?

[sneaker_ger]

madvr dithers to the bitdepth you set for your display device in the madvr settings. What your GPU driver does with that is a different question. Usually madvr should dither to 10 bit because it does processing (like scaling) in higher precision irregardless of the bitdepth of the source.

[iSeries]

So best to setup profiles for 8bit and 10bit content then I guess (i am assuming it should be dithered to at least the source bit depth)

[Warner306]

HDMI 2.0 can do 10 bit 4:2:2 YCbCr and TV support it that one of the rare cases where nvidia is doing 10 bit.
a bd player should use 4:2:0 10 bit for 60 hz HDR that's lossless.

i'm not sure where this 12 bit comes from because PC don't really support it. you could do it with 16 bit and let the driver do the rest but still.

There is no option for 10-bit 4:2:2 above 30 Hz.

This is an image from the official HDMI 2.0 spec page: https://i.postimg.cc/WpfKqJRZ/HDMI-2-0-Specs.png

The majority of UHD streaming boxes and Blu-ray players output at 12-bit YCbCr 4:2:2 at all refresh rates. The PC shouldn't be at a distinct disadvantage because it has no option for 10-bit RGB.

[huhn]

source bitdeep is irrelevant because it is ycbcr and converting it to RGB creates floatpoint number (no bit deep is big enough to save the number).

so the madVR output bit deep mostly changes the nosie level in the image created from madVR. if dithering would be disabled the difference between 8 and 10 bit would be a significant difference in banding even with an 8bit source.

[madjock]

the professional 10 bit is using openGL on a 8 bit surface to hack the 2 missing bits in the alpha channel. and programs that use that you need a professional card to get 10 bit in the GPU driver. the GPU output has nothing todo with this!

since windows 7 we have 10 bit output to the GPU using directx 11 on any consumer card. you just need a fullscreen exclusive d3d11 surface and this is obviously not usable for photoshop but easily with game or a video renderer.

high bit deep output is a well known and for years used feature of madVR.

do you even read your links? https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/3011/kw/10%20bit

I don't get why I am getting jumped on when it is quite obvious we can't select 10 bit. Whatever can or cannot be done, but it is obviously easier to get personal.

If someone can show me how to get a 10bit Resolution in Windows 10 with a normal nVidia card I am all ears. I am also pretty sure over many threads here that 8bit RGB is usually always recommended, but it is a slow madVR day nowadays. :)

[huhn]

There is no option for 10-bit 4:2:2 above 30 Hz.

This is an image from the official HDMI 2.0 spec page: https://i.postimg.cc/WpfKqJRZ/HDMI-2-0-Specs.png

The majority of UHD streaming boxes and Blu-ray players output at 12-bit YCbCr 4:2:2 at all refresh rates. The PC shouldn't be at a distinct disadvantage because it has no option for 10-bit RGB.

well no: https://abload.de/img/wellno2ikpj.png
good job HDMI organisation.

and i'm sending 10 bit just for the fun of it with an nvidia card.

[madjock]

well no: https://abload.de/img/wellno2ikpj.png
good job HDMI organisation.

and i'm sending 10 bit just for the fun of it with an nvidia card.


Thats not a normal NVCP...show us RGB - Full then win a prize :)

[huhn]

do yourself and this thread a favour and move on from this topic.

nev has said anything that needs to be said about this.
sending 10 bit RGB is a no issue with AMD cards the nvidia controls are not as flexible as these from AMD in this regard.
sending 12 instead 10 would always be fine if the processing in TVs would be solid.

[Warner306]

well no: https://abload.de/img/wellno2ikpj.png
good job HDMI organisation.

and i'm sending 10 bit just for the fun of it with an nvidia card.

That doesn't make much sense. It should be option, but most UHD players output 12-bit YCbCr 4:2:2.

[madjock]

do yourself and this thread a favour and move on from this topic.

nev has said anything that needs to be said about this.
sending 10 bit RGB is a no issue with AMD cards the nvidia controls are not as flexible as these from AMD in this regard.
sending 12 instead 10 would always be fine if the processing in TVs would be solid.

:thanks:

[ryokoseigo]

Could anyone recommend me the settings to best lower noise?

I'm wondering if the high sharpness is causing more grain in the videos I'm watching. I'm using 4k hdr videos of high quality bitrate through MPC-BE and MAdVR. But some videos just dont look very good, for example The Prestige looks like a grainy mess, and Infinitywar isnt very great.

Are there settings I should use that are simply better then other options? I have LAV hardware decoder set to d3d11.

I'm using gtx 1080ti and 8700k so power shouldnt be an issue.

[ryrynz]

This sounds like film grain, it's meant to be there. Reduce all your sharpening (TV/madVR) and observe, you have 4K high bitrate sources, there is little reason to add even moderate sharpening which may exacerbate noise.
Not sure if you looked but madVR does have a option called 'reduce random noise' under processing -> artifact removal.. Not sure how you missed that. Also your TV itself with have some artifact/noise removal options too.

[svengun]

you may want to have a look at madleveltweaker.exe

Thanks ! very handy

[tp4tissue]

do yourself and this thread a favour and move on from this topic.

nev has said anything that needs to be said about this.
sending 10 bit RGB is a no issue with AMD cards the nvidia controls are not as flexible as these from AMD in this regard.
sending 12 instead 10 would always be fine if the processing in TVs would be solid.

Huhn, I are confused now.

If I have nvidia, and I want to output HDR to TV, should my setting on the nvcp output page be 4:2:2 10bit / 12bit ?

or does it not matter, and the Madvr auto pops the screen to NVHDR, which does whatever it does , "which is ??"


I also have an ATI card incoming, what should my output be set for ATI

:scared:

[huhn]

for best results you should always send RGB if possible.

madVR doesn't care about the output of the GPU it just send images the driver which is always RGB.

I also have an ATI card incoming, what should my output be set for ATI

sorry to hear that. AMD needs 10 bit output from madVR or the AMD HDR API will not work.
the rest doesn't change. you should not go over 10 bit on AMD use the chance of 10 bit RGB on them for a at least in theory untouched output.

[glc650]

I'm thinking about sending my Radeon 580 back. How does a GTX 1060 6GB compare to a Radeon 580 8GB?. With the 580 I'm able to run NGU A-A low for chroma upscaling and Jinc with sigmoidal light & anti-ringing for image upscaling. I also have most of the image enhancement and upscaling refinement options enabled (with default values).

[tp4tissue]

for best results you should always send RGB if possible.

madVR doesn't care about the output of the GPU it just send images the driver which is always RGB.



sorry to hear that. AMD needs 10 bit output from madVR or the AMD HDR API will not work.
the rest doesn't change. you should not go over 10 bit on AMD use the chance of 10 bit RGB on them for a at least in theory untouched output.

So... got my rx580.

How do I get madtpg to kick into HDR mode, during displaycal.

It seems that -unlike- nvidia, the madtpg won't kick into hdr mode at all ?

I can play an hdr movie, and the regular player will go into amd-hdr mode, and so will the tv.

I've tried both, 09214 and 09217..

This is so confusing :(


I did, 10bit in display, d3d11, fullscreen in madtpg, win10 hdr OFF

[Asmodian]

You probably need to have it fullscreen so madVR enables 10-bit. This means the TV will go into HDR only when displaying patches.

[tp4tissue]

You probably need to have it fullscreen so madVR enables 10-bit. This means the TV will go into HDR only when displaying patches.

I've tried this, displaycal is launching the madtpg process in fullscreen, and the patches are all displayed full screen.

The setup is still not kicking into HDR.

[ryrynz]

How does a GTX 1060 6GB compare to a Radeon 580 8GB?.

It's quite a bit faster with NGU. If The 1060 6GB is all you can afford just do it its not like you have a lot of options.

[mrmojo666]

I've tried this, displaycal is launching the madtpg process in fullscreen, and the patches are all displayed full screen.

The setup is still not kicking into HDR.

just saying, in the last months i noticed that sometimes ddu doesn't clean well amd drivers, so after and ddu and driver installation i got no hdr switching, at that point a ddu clean in safe mode + ddu clean in normal mode and then driver installation solved the issue, pay also attention that amd driver must set up to 10/12 bit to get hdr switch working. no need of FSE for HDR with AMD.

bye

[ileile]

It seems that madVR can't properly read the edid of my monitor. the manufacturer name, the native resolution, etc, all of them are wrong, they looks like NVIDIA defaults, but not read from the device. But other software could read correct values.

And madVR generates many identifications, it may always consider the monitor connected with a new and different configuration when the player runs, so a new entry is added (with same defaults values) and being active (old ones never be active again) every time.

edid data read by madVR:

00 FF FF FF FF FF FF 00 3A C4 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 01 04 95 00 00 78 EC 91 A3 54 4C 99 26 0F
50 54 00 20 00 00 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01 01
01 01 01 01 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 94

02 03 12 71 45 10 04 03 01 00 23 09 07 07 83 01
00 00 02 3A 80 18 71 38 2D 40 58 2C 45 00 B8 6F
21 00 00 1E 56 5E 00 A0 A0 A0 29 50 30 20 35 00
58 54 21 00 00 1A 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 CB

and the screenshot.

https://forum.doom9.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=16673&d=1547546598

[tp4tissue]

just saying, in the last months i noticed that sometimes ddu doesn't clean well amd drivers, so after and ddu and driver installation i got no hdr switching, at that point a ddu clean in safe mode + ddu clean in normal mode and then driver installation solved the issue, pay also attention that amd driver must set up to 10/12 bit to get hdr switch working. no need of FSE for HDR with AMD.

bye


For me Madvr playback DOES kick into HDR mode.

However, MADTPG, during displaycal, EVEN in fullscreen mode, will not kick into HDR.

What do you mean amd driver set up 10-12 bit, in the AMD [Display] menu ?.


I will try DDU though, thanks for the suggest.

[mrmojo666]

For me Madvr playback DOES kick into HDR mode.

However, MADTPG, during displaycal, EVEN in fullscreen mode, will not kick into HDR.

What do you mean amd driver set up 10-12 bit, in the AMD [Display] menu ?.


I will try DDU though, thanks for the suggest.

Yes display settings

[jmonier]

It seems that madVR can't properly read the edid of my monitor. the manufacturer name, the native resolution, etc, all of them are wrong, they looks like NVIDIA defaults, but not read from the device. But other software could read correct values.

And madVR generates many identifications, it may always consider the monitor connected with a new and different configuration when the player runs, so a new entry is added (with same defaults values) and being active (old ones never be active again) every time.

This sounds exactly like the problem I've seen with my LG 34WK95U when connected via the Displayport. (It's fine via HDMI.) I've reported it as a bug and madshi said he'll try to investigate it when he has time.

What monitor and connection do you have?

[Charky]

I've tried this, displaycal is launching the madtpg process in fullscreen, and the patches are all displayed full screen.

The setup is still not kicking into HDR.
I had the same issue.

I toggled HDR in the Win 10 display options.

[madjock]

I had the same issue.

I toggled HDR in the Win 10 display options.

Unsure if it is madVR or my TV, but I have had to reset my TV settings to get the HDR to toggle back on. Even did a full 8.1 install then 10 again.

Was not till I reset the TV that it worked again, no idea if its a driver issue or the TV, just so many variables it is hard to pinpoint, especially when it can work one day and then you have to mess with madVR another day for some reason.

At least if the TV is back at default you can work backwards, bloody annoying as I wish I had done that first.

[tp4tissue]

Just tried,

Safemode,

DDU,

adrenaline 18.5.1 (older driver),

Displaycal 3.3.5.0 (old dispcal),


Madtpg still will not kick into HDR, even launched at fullscreen

Again, Regular madvr AMD HDR playback works fine.

[madjock]

Just tried,

Safemode,

DDU,

adrenaline 18.5.1 (older driver),

Displaycal 3.3.5.0 (old dispcal),


Madtpg still will not kick into HDR, even launched at fullscreen

Again, Regular madvr AMD HDR playback works fine.

I have the opposite in a way, it enables with a 4K HDR film in KODI/Dsplayer and does not go off till I come out of KODI, seems to be new things every day :(

[tp4tissue]

I have the opposite in a way, it enables with a 4K HDR film in KODI/Dsplayer and does not go off till I come out of KODI, seems to be new things every day :(

Does your player render through OS-HDR or AMDHDR or NV HDR.

Ctrl-J, top left.

I think I read that if something goes through OSHDR, it can not auto pop-out


I'm on MPCHC, so it renders through AMD HDR.

[madjock]

Does your player render through OS-HDR or AMDHDR or NV HDR.

Ctrl-J, top left.

I think I read that if something goes through OSHDR, it can not auto pop-out


I'm on MPCHC, so it renders through AMD HDR.

All good on the desktop side with MPC-HC and MPC-BE, I use NV HDR and its all good, just recently started in KODI no ideas why, but its better than your scenario as at least it works for the most part.

[Asmodian]

Again, Regular madvr AMD HDR playback works fine.

Does it go into HDR in a windowed mode? In the past, on Nvidia, I was able to use a video playing in MPC-HC to trigger HDR as a workaround for madTPG not triggering HDR.

[tp4tissue]

Does it go into HDR in a windowed mode? In the past, on Nvidia, I was able to use a video playing in MPC-HC to trigger HDR as a workaround for madTPG not triggering HDR.


On my ATI card, it will only HDR on fullscreen for playback, madtpg doesn't HDR at all.

My nvidia works fine, hdr triggers on windowed , but unnecessary because the madtpg will trigger nv hdr as well.

[XMonarchY]

I can select 12 bit in NVCP panel in 1809 but obviously cant get it to stick in a custom res in the NVCP.

I am using 416.34.

Yeah, same, I really hope madshi still looks at these forums and maybe next madVR version will have custom display mode with color bit depth settings.

[albur]

I'm close to give up with madvr, i have my computer and when i make a change in madvr i can see the diference in mpc hc paused. When i do the same in my htpc it does nothing with the same configuration, madvr is running because hdr to sdr is working

What can be the issue? The only difference is that one has monitor and the other a projector and the pc has a amd and the htpc a nvidida

[Warner306]

There probably is a difference, but you can't perceive it on that display. What setting are you referring to?