madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[maxkolonko123]

I've noticed something really odd tonight, when playing movie i don't see any drop frames in madvr OSD, but when then credits shows up dropped frames are increasing really quick and max stats rendering goes really high too(like from 10ms to 45ms)... even the madvr shows 1 frame drop every 1h07min. I will try to record it tomorrow so you can see yourself how madvr behave. Movie is called "Better Watch Out" and the credits are with strong red and yellow colours ( dont know if this even matter though )

[Warner306]

This is most likely a fault with the file or the way the media player handles the file. Try another file. If it persists, try another media player.

[huhn]

is a 3d LUT in use?

[x7007]

Anything we know is going to be released at 0.92.13 ?

[ryrynz]

Some big improvements for HDR to SDR, besides that as usual nothing is known.

[cork_OS]

Anything we know is going to be released at 0.92.13 ?
Searching for madshi posts in this thread is most accurate way to know it.
Next madVR build will come maybe in a week or two or so, I'm not sure right now. It will feature improved HDR tone mapping quality and an additional "low" RCA quality level (which will fuse with NGU medium quality).

FYI, although I didn't have much time for madVR recently, I did start working on a totally new algorithm (not scaling related) last year, and I've been working on it ever since. I even hired external help for some things I didn't know how to do myself (I'm not a math genius, unfortunately). I'm not completely sure yet if I can manage to make it work. It might end up being much too slow, or too low quality, but I'm hopeful. If it works out as well as I hope, it could be a relatively big thing. But it's going to take several more weeks at least. Sorry, no more information at this point.

HDR tone mapping development discussion are going on avsforum, you could also search for madshi posts there.

[hasec]

Hi


First of all this is my first post :)


i have a problem with madvr.
At first i was able to optimize timings and so on.
i had the perfect timings for 23.976 (71.928 in case of my monitor).

Now what ever i do (optimizing, CRU...) madvr shows frame drop/repeat in every 30s to few minutes.
Anyone having the same problem?

i use MPC-HC.
i have set the following display modes:
1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p29, 1080p30, 1080p48, 1080p50, 1080p59, 1080p60

i have tried many madvr versions but no dice.

Here are my specs:

Hardware:
i7 6700k 4.5gHz
Asus Strix GTX 1080 OC (stock clocks)
16 GB DDR4
500 GB SATA II System drive (system partition has about 80 GB)
Acer s231hl monitor Max OC being 74-75Hz (sometimes 75 works and sometimes it doesn't)

Software:
Windows 7 x64
ReClock 1.9.0.0
Madvr 0.92.12
MPC-HC 1.7.13 x86
CRU 1.3.1


i am switching my monitor into C27FG73.
i have already tried using the latter monitor twice but had to RMA twice because of clouding.
C27FG73s had the same problem with madvr.


Like i said at first everything worked well.
And sorry about being lazy and not reading through the whole thead.

[huhn]

if you are going to use 71 HZ and you add display modes like this: 1080p23, 1080p24, 1080p29, 1080p30, 1080p48, 1080p50, 1080p59, 1080p60

how should madVR switch to the 71 hz if it is not there.

[hasec]

Thanks for the quick reply.

If i press ctrl+j it says
display 71.9....
composition rate: 71.928
even though i haven't set 1080p71 on display modes.

[Warner306]

Are you using media speed correction in ReClock? There is no need to use ReClock with custom timings.

Are you getting any dropped/repeated frames, or is madVR just estimating these? The custom timing screws with madVR's estimation.

It could be the custom timing is no longer active. Maybe you updated the drivers? In any case, have you tried going through the optimization process again?

[tzr916]

My content is mostly 720p tv channels, a few 1080p channels, and a few 480p channels. Using JriverMC for comcast cablecard tuners, with GTX1060 6GB, passing signal through a Denon 4k receiver to a Sony 4k HDR Tv. I do NOT have any need for 3D or HDR. With the GT640, I just used basic settings like output @1080p with cubic scaling. Now that I have the GTX1060 6GB, looking for help/advice.

1. madVR sees the AVR fine. I manually added the Tv as display device, but it has no identification tab. Is that ok?

2. I have tried the latest nvidia drivers, but run into bad frame dropping and strange exclusive mode issues. So far, I have gone back to 388.59 to get the frame dropping stabilized, have not tested exclusive mode yet. Is anyone able to run the newer drivers (with JRiverMC)?

3. I already bumped chroma/image upscaling to Lanzcos which looks really good to me. Wondering if I can push that some more? Any suggestions?

4. Right now, I let my tv (Sony XBR-Z9D) upscale 1080p to 4k looks pretty darn good. Can the GTX1060 handle bumping output to 4k? Can I leave the desktop at 1080p and make madvr switch to 4k only when playing video? If I do that, does the JriverMC theater view GUI show up in 1080p or 4k? Exactly what madvr settings need to be changed/added to make that happen? Is it worth it? Should I just leave it at 1080p and focus on scaling/processing?

[Warner306]

My content is mostly 720p tv channels, a few 1080p channels, and a few 480p channels. Using JriverMC for comcast cablecard tuners, with GTX1060 6GB, passing signal through a Denon 4k receiver to a Sony 4k HDR Tv. I do NOT have any need for 3D or HDR. With the GT640, I just used basic settings like output @1080p with cubic scaling. Now that I have the GTX1060 6GB, looking for help/advice.

1. madVR sees the AVR fine. I manually added the Tv as display device, but it has no identification tab. Is that ok?

2. I have tried the latest nvidia drivers, but run into bad frame dropping and strange exclusive mode issues. So far, I have gone back to 388.59 to get the frame dropping stabilized, have not tested exclusive mode yet. Is anyone able to run the newer drivers (with JRiverMC)?

3. I already bumped chroma/image upscaling to Lanzcos which looks really good to me. Wondering if I can push that some more? Any suggestions?

4. Right now, I let my tv (Sony XBR-Z9D) upscale 1080p to 4k looks pretty darn good. Can the GTX1060 handle bumping output to 4k? Can I leave the desktop at 1080p and make madvr switch to 4k only when playing video? If I do that, does the JriverMC theater view GUI show up in 1080p or 4k? Exactly what madvr settings need to be changed/added to make that happen? Is it worth it? Should I just leave it at 1080p and focus on scaling/processing?

1. madVR sees the device it is connected to via HDMI or otherwise. If it's the receiver, then that's fine. The display is likely connected to the receiver.

2. Drivers are the biggest headache in HTPC use because HTPC issues are often overlooked by GPU manufacturers in favor of video game use. If you find a driver that works for you, stick with it, unless you also play video games. You don't need exclusive mode if it is giving you trouble. Windowed mode will offer you identical performance for madVR rendering.

3. With your graphics card, you could easily use NGU image doubling. Either NGU Anti-Alias or NGU Sharp are recommended depending on the quality of the content you are watching. NGU is the best family of image scalers in madVR.

4. madVR is a vastly superior upscaler to your TV. Any other scenario wastes the power of your graphics card. Set the following in display modes: 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p50, 2160p59 and 2160p60. That way, all content with be upscaled to 4K UHD by madVR. That is the preferred set-up. It is also advisable to set your desktop to 3840 x 2160p.

If you want more set up information, try the link in my signature.

[tzr916]

...Set the following in display modes: 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p50, 2160p59 and 2160p60. That way, all content with be upscaled to 4K UHD by madVR. That is the preferred set-up. It is also advisable to set your desktop to 3840 x 2160p...

Excellent help, I will try this very soon! Small question-

If I set the desktop to 3840x2160p, do I really need to put those display modes into madVR? Wouldn't madVR just output/upscale everything to 2160p when the desktop is set to 3840x2160p?

Thank you.

[Warner306]

If everything is being deinterlaced into 50p or 60p, then you may have trouble using more aggressive settings in madVR. I haven’t watched any interlaced sources in years, so I can’t remember how this is communicated in the msdVR OSD. Nor do I know if your local broadcasters broadcast in 1080i or 720p. The SD channels will most likely be interlaced.

[Warner306]

I don’t think you can output a TV channel at 24p because of the variable frame rate, so you might as well output everything at 60hz or 50hz if you’re in Europe. So leave display modes blank. Set the desktop to 3840 x 2160p 8bpc RGB Full. Set madVR to 8 bits. Set your display’s HDMI black level to full range to match the GPU.

It is also likely the 1080p channel is 1080i, the 720p channel is 720p and the 480p channel is 480i. The performance requirements placed on madVR will be very different depending on the channel, so it is good to make separate profiles under scaling for 1080p, 720p and SD. There are some suggested profiles in the link in my signature. Smooth motion might also be useful if you are outputting everything at 60hz.

The interlaced frame rates will double after deinterlacing, while the progressive frame rates will not. This difference in frame rates places different loads on madVR's rendering.

[huhn]

1080 is usual interlanced as broadcast progressive is really rare.
and there is a big issue when you use nvidia for deinterlancing is is really really bad at it.

so think about YADIF in lavfilter for "better" quality.

NGU low to mid and super xbr will work fine at 60 fps with that card if the rest is default.

[ryrynz]

Quick update on nVidia drivers status:

If you’re not a gamer or want Asio4all, then 385.28 is the last fully working option.


Appreciate the time you put into this, thanks. Nvidia are pretty poor with their driver development, they seem to break levels and 12 bit settings fairly often.
I hope someone has given them a what's what in the forum over their constant poor coding performance.

[strumf666]

Considering AMD drivers are far from perfect as well, both lack motivation to really put an effort into fixing theirs...

[HillieSan]

My experience with AMD drivers are good. They are pretty stable for a long time. I have experienced some minor issues/improvements in the past, but no show stoppers. AMD is doing a good job. Most issues I had with MadVR where fixed by an update of MadVR or Lav filter

I am quite happy with my RX 480. The only thing I am hoping for is that the performance of NGU will be improved for AMD.

[ryrynz]

I think you'd be waiting for newer architecture, my guess is if they could've eeked out some serious gains in that area it would've been done by now.

[xabregas]

So any news on fixing exclusive mode in windows 10. Or any windows 10 hidden setting that might be in the way of allowing madvr or any 3d app to control the Full Screen???

Exclusive mode for me is the only thing tha gives me the best PQ and performance.

[tzr916]

....you might as well output everything at 60hz or 50hz if you’re in Europe. So leave display modes blank. Set the desktop to 3840 x 2160p 8bpc RGB Full. Set madVR to 8 bits. Set your display’s HDMI black level to full range to match the GPU.

It is also likely the 1080p channel is 1080i, the 720p channel is 720p and the 480p channel is 480i. The performance requirements placed on madVR will be very different depending on the channel, so it is good to make separate profiles under scaling for 1080p, 720p and SD...

I'm in USA using Comcast cablecard. Looking at my tv channel frame rates using CTRL+J:
1080 @29.970
720 @59.940
480 @29.970

Not sure how to identify if it's interlaced or progressive?

[mclingo]

My experience with AMD drivers are good. They are pretty stable for a long time. I have experienced some minor issues/improvements in the past, but no show stoppers. AMD is doing a good job. Most issues I had with MadVR where fixed by an update of MadVR or Lav filter

I am quite happy with my RX 480. The only thing I am hoping for is that the performance of NGU will be improved for AMD.

out of interest, are you outputting to a 4k HDR tv?

[Warner306]

I'm in USA using Comcast cablecard. Looking at my tv channel frame rates using CTRL+J:
1080 @29.970
720 @59.940
480 @29.970

Not sure how to identify if it's interlaced or progressive?

Sorry, I didn't read your initial message carefully enough, so my last two posts were not as clear as they needed to be.

The 1080 @ 29.97 is likely a 1080i60 broadcast. The interlaced field rate of 60i is equal to 29.97 fps. The interlaced field rate shows two half frames, which combine to make one full frame. madVR should deinterlace this by matching each half frame with a new frame to make it 59.94 fps progressive.

The 720 @ 59.94 is a 720p60 progressive broadcast. I thought madVR might read this as 29.97 fps, as it is 29.97 x 2. At any rate, no conversion is necessary because it is a progressive signal.

The 480 @ 29.97 is likely a 480i60 broadcast. The interlaced field rate is deinterlaced by matching each half frame with a new frame to make it 59.94 fps progressive.

For the interlaced channels, the OSD should report deinterlacing as "on" and show a movie frame interval of 16ms (which means it is outputting 59.94 fps) as well deinterlacing should show in the rendering section at the bottom.

huhn recommended using YADIF deinterlacing in LAV Video. I'm not sure if you have to disable deinterlacing in madVR. Deinterlacing can be done by the decoder, video renderer or display. LAV Filters is probably the best option here. With LAV doing the deinterlacing, madVR should report the frame rate as 59.94 fps.

In practice, the output frame rate will always be 60 fps, so this shouldn't impact your madVR performance too much from source to source. You still might benefit from creating separate profiles for your content.

Here are some profile rules if you want to use them. I wrote them in a way that accounts for non-standard resolutions.

Create these profiles under "scaling":

if (srcWidth > 1280) "1080p"
else if (srcWidth <= 1280) and (srcHeight > 720) "1080p"

else if (srcWidth > 960) and (srcWidth <= 1280) "720p"
else if (srcWidth <= 960) and ((srcHeight > 540) and (srcHeight <= 720)) "720p"

else if (srcWidth <= 960) and (srcHeight <= 540) "SD"

Set the desktop to 3840 x 2160p, 8bpc, RGB Full. Set madVR to 8 bits. Set your display’s HDMI black level to full range to match the GPU. You could also try toggling smooth motion and see if you like it. As stated, NGU low to mid or super-xbr are good choices for scaling.

[oldpainlesskodi]

out of interest, are you outputting to a 4k HDR tv?

Mclingo,

I know from here and on the dsplayer forum, you have had both color mapping and clipping issues, as I have (hdr and non-hdr).

After much hair pulling, I managed to get to the bottom of it on my set-up.

I always thought that the best setup was Madvr Full Range, GPU RGB full range and Tv set at full range.

However, on my Samsung 4k suhd ks8000 set, this resulted in the wrong color mapping and clipping in blacks and whites, for non-hdr, which was further amplified for hdr material especially,

On my set up, what fixed my issue was changing to the following settings -

MadVR - Full Range

GPU - Limited ycbcr 4.4.4 at 12 bit for 23.976 (custom mode, ycbcr 4.4.4 8bit at anything above 30hz) and NOT rgb full range.

TV - HDMI Black Level set to Low/Limited (I can only assume that, as with my Samsung set, once it is receiving ycbcr 4.4.4, the option to chose between Normal/Low or Full/Limited is disabled).

This may, or maynot on your set up help (along with one of my previous posts regarding disabling the windows color management system).

All the best,

K

[oldpainlesskodi]

Mclingo,

I know from here and on the dsplayer forum, you have had both color mapping and clipping issues, as I have (hdr and non-hdr).

After much hair pulling, I managed to get to the bottom of it on my set-up.

I always thought that the best setup was Madvr Full Range, GPU RGB full range and Tv set at full range.

However, on my Samsung 4k suhd ks8000 set, this resulted in the wrong color mapping and clipping in blacks and whites, for non-hdr, which was further amplified for hdr material especially,

On my set up, what fixed my issue was changing to the following settings -

MadVR - Full Range

GPU - Limited ycbcr 4.4.4 at 12 bit for 23.976 (custom mode, ycbcr 4.4.4 8bit at anything above 30hz) and NOT rgb full range.

TV - HDMI Black Level set to Low/Limited (I can only assume that, as with my Samsung set, once it is receiving ycbcr 4.4.4, the option to chose between Normal/Low or Full/Limited is disabled).

This may, or maynot on your set up help (along with one of my previous posts regarding disabling the windows color management system).

All the best,

K

And BTW, before anyone gets all elitist on my backside (which, I am ashamed to say, is prevalent is this forum), I was the product/firmware tester for the Tomacro limHD200i when we were trying to figure out how the hell to get MKV's to play on a hardware device, and I cracked it....Madshi was on that forum back in 2007....

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/39-networking-media-servers-content-streaming/852855-tomacro-limhd200i-hd-media-player-h-264-a.html.......me? Oldpainless68.

[huhn]

what's your point?

[oldpainlesskodi]

what's your point?

Sorry, not sure if that was aimed at me, but if so

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/NewGlitteringHorsemouse-mobile.mp4


In the way back time machine, I sold all my VHS tapes and went Laser disk with a Pioneer CLD-D925, and had an issue about how to get true AC3, and by going on a forum. I learnt I needed an RF Demodulater...

Forums are there to share experiences, and learn - the moment anyone is slapped down (or worse, treated with disdain) by someone that consider's they know everything, it all falls apart.

I love what Madshi has done for the AV community that care about PQ quality - he has done (along with Nev) some amazing work - if everyone knew all the answer's, do you think MadVr or Lav filters would have been coded?

Anyways, onward and upwards.

K

[mclingo]

Mclingo,

I know from here and on the dsplayer forum, you have had both color mapping and clipping issues, as I have (hdr and non-hdr).

After much hair pulling, I managed to get to the bottom of it on my set-up.

I always thought that the best setup was Madvr Full Range, GPU RGB full range and Tv set at full range.

However, on my Samsung 4k suhd ks8000 set, this resulted in the wrong color mapping and clipping in blacks and whites, for non-hdr, which was further amplified for hdr material especially,

On my set up, what fixed my issue was changing to the following settings -

MadVR - Full Range

GPU - Limited ycbcr 4.4.4 at 12 bit for 23.976 (custom mode, ycbcr 4.4.4 8bit at anything above 30hz) and NOT rgb full range.

TV - HDMI Black Level set to Low/Limited (I can only assume that, as with my Samsung set, once it is receiving ycbcr 4.4.4, the option to chose between Normal/Low or Full/Limited is disabled).

This may, or maynot on your set up help (along with one of my previous posts regarding disabling the windows color management system).

All the best,

K

thanks for the update but I fixed mine the other day by installing an older driver, then dropping back to a newer one, 18.2.2, i'm staying on this driver for now as my PC is just for movies and internet as I'm never chasing newer drivers for gaming etc.

As it currently stands everything works as expected with no need for custom res or funky setups, however i'm currently in 4:2:0. Ill be going back to 444 permanently when I'm fully happy my system is stable.

The reason Im not using 18.3x drivers is that they cause my PC to hang intermittently and randomly.

ive not noticed any clipping in HDR though, my only issue was the blown out reds.

[HillieSan]

out of interest, are you outputting to a 4k HDR tv?


yes I am, to a Samsung 49KS7000 and a JVC X5000 4K projector. I use HDR only for HDR movies.

[Sunset1982]

I just exchanged my GTX 1070 from my Htpc to my gamig rig. My RX480 is now back in my htpc.

Is there anything I need to know in regards to madvr? I know that it is not as powerful as the gtx1070 with NGU.

What about automatic switching with hdr files? does this work differently with amd cards?

[austinminton]

Quick update on nVidia drivers status:


Thanks Manni, that was a very useful post.

[mclingo]

yes I am, to a Samsung 49KS7000 and a JVC X5000 4K projector. I use HDR only for HDR movies.

Hi, do you have FSE and use DIRECT3D11 unticked in MADVR?

Is your TV in PC mode or Bluray/media center mode?

[HillieSan]

FSE unticked and Direct3D11 ticked.
You need the latest LAV filter (nightly build) for Direct3D11 to work.

TV is in default HDMI mode with Full-RGB HDMI signal. I think PC mode works fine as well.

[mclingo]

FSE unticked and Direct3D11 ticked.
You need the latest LAV filter (nightly build) for Direct3D11 to work.

TV is in default HDMI mode with Full-RGB HDMI signal. I think PC mode works fine as well.


Hi, what do you mean you need the latest nightly, DIRECT3D 11 has been working for ages on my system, its required for HDR to work.

What does it fix?

[mclingo]

Hi, there are a few used RX580 cards now on ebay for around £200 so prices have come down a little, they are all 4gig though, I currently have a 4 gig RX 460, can anyone hazzard a guess how much more MADVR grunt i'll get from this, roughly as a percentage, trying to work out if its worth selling the RX460 and getting one.

[Warner306]

Hi, there are a few used RX580 cards now on ebay for around £200 so prices have come down a little, they are all 4gig though, I currently have a 4 gig RX 460, can anyone hazzard a guess how much more MADVR grunt i'll get from this, roughly as a percentage, trying to work out if its worth selling the RX460 and getting one.

You should be able to run NGU high plus some artifact removal at 1080p -> 2160p. But I haven't heard from any RX 580 owners to confirm. AMD Polaris still struggles with NGU image scaling.

[mclingo]

Thanks :)

only having 4gb of ram going to be an issue?

[ashlar42]

and there is a big issue when you use nvidia for deinterlancing is is really really bad at it.

so think about YADIF in lavfilter for "better" quality.At least for SD that's most definitely not my experience. I find yadif results really subpar.

[Warner306]

Thanks :)

only having 4gb of ram going to be an issue?

No, 4GB of VRAM is just the right amount.

[huhn]

At least for SD that's most definitely not my experience. I find yadif results really subpar.

if you like wrong positioned chroma...

[Sunset1982]

AMD Polaris still struggles with NGU image scaling.


What about Vega?

[huhn]

someone reported normal result with a 56/64 vega card.

[strumf666]

Vega doesn't particularly struggle with NGU.

[tzr916]

....Here are some profile rules if you want to use them. I wrote them in a way that accounts for non-standard resolutions.

Create these profiles under "scaling":

if (srcWidth > 1280) "1080p"
else if (srcWidth <= 1280) and (srcHeight > 720) "1080p"

else if (srcWidth > 960) and (srcWidth <= 1280) "720p"
else if (srcWidth <= 960) and ((srcHeight > 540) and (srcHeight <= 720)) "720p"

else if (srcWidth <= 960) and (srcHeight <= 540) "SD"


I understand why profiles are needed for each type of source material, but I am lost on setting them up. What to do with the code you provided? I see Scaling where I can create a profile group. I check all four of the boxes, then I end up with Profile Group 1. Then what? Do I add three Profiles in the group? Are there some screen shots of what it's supposed to look like when done?

[Warner306]

What about Vega?

The Vega 11 iGPU can do NGU low luma doubling from 1080p -> 4K. I'm not sure if that's good or not. It's about as powerful as a GT 1030, so you'd have to know what the GT 1030 can do.

[Asmodian]

Are there some screen shots of what it's supposed to look like when done?

You can check out my settings.bin for some complicated examples using profiles; at the end of the third post in the link in my signature.
http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd496/asmodian3/Example%20Profiles_zpsqedqtjsm.png

[Warner306]

I understand why profiles are needed for each type of source material, but I am lost on setting them up. What to do with the code you provided? I see Scaling where I can create a profile group. I check all four of the boxes, then I end up with Profile Group 1. Then what? Do I add three Profiles in the group? Are there some screen shots of what it's supposed to look like when done?

Create three profile groups. Name them "1080p" "720p" and "SD". Paste the code into the top of the profile group. You should get a green checkmark if done correctly.

[tzr916]

Yay! I got the green check mark. Running at 4k now. Initial testing looks very good. Thanks so much.

[el Filou]

I always thought that the best setup was Madvr Full Range, GPU RGB full range and Tv set at full range.With correctly functioning hardware (TV and GPU drivers), it still is.

However, on my Samsung 4k suhd ks8000 set, this resulted in the wrong color mapping and clipping in blacks and whites, for non-hdr, which was further amplified for hdr material especially,Are you using an NVIDIA?
With some older driver branch - don't remember which one - I had kind of the same issue you have, with clipping. I had to set the GPU (and TV of course) to Limited to get it fixed permanently but of course you then lose in picture quality.
Is YCbCr the only mode that fixes it on your TV, or does RGB Limited works too?
Do you by any chance have another device to test with?
If you have an NVIDIA, try changing the "Content type reported to the display" setting and see if it changes something. When I had that issue with NVIDIA drivers, changing that option to literally anything else than the one currently selected fixed the problem until the next display resync, at which point I had to change it again.
The problem was then fixed in the following driver branch.