madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[SamuriHL]

It's clear you have no idea what I'm talking about so I'm just going to leave at that. Of course you can factory reset it back to defaults. I never said you couldn't. I didn't say the TV is permanently screwed up by a bad calibration. However, since us LG owners upload the LUTS directly to the TV, if you DON'T factory reset, you are stuck with a bad calibration until you do. What I SAID was that a bad calibration makes the picture quality worse. And the point of a calibration SHOULD be to get the picture as close to reference as possible. Anyway, you're just not getting what I'm saying so we'll leave it at that.

[Manni]

Please could you take this off topic generic calibration discussion in another thread? Thanks :)

[SamuriHL]

Don't need to, I'm done. :)

[SamuriHL]

I have what is very likely a stupid question. But you know me, never afraid to ask! :D Windows has the idea of scaling when you set a fairly high resolution. For 1080p it tends to go to 150% and for 2160p it defaults to 300% on the desktop. When playing video full screen windowed mode, does that scaling apply to the video at all? Or does madvr's windowed mode "override" the scaling set on the desktop? As I said, probably a ridiculously stupid question on my part but I am curious. Thanks!

[Manni]

I have what is very likely a stupid question. But you know me, never afraid to ask! :D Windows has the idea of scaling when you set a fairly high resolution. For 1080p it tends to go to 150% and for 2160p it defaults to 300% on the desktop. When playing video full screen windowed mode, does that scaling apply to the video at all? Or does madvr's windowed mode "override" the scaling set on the desktop? As I said, probably a ridiculously stupid question on my part but I am curious. Thanks!

The scaling is only for the GUI. I use 200% and that doesn't impact on video content.

[SamuriHL]

Thanks, Manni. I figured that was probably the case but thought I'd ask cause I didn't know for sure.

[Siso]

Guys, which scenario is right - NGU Sharp low+SSIM 1D 100 AR LL, or NGU Sharp medium+Bicubic 150 AR LL?

[ryrynz]

There is no "right" but I would think most here would go with NGU Sharp Medium + Bicubic 150 AR LL for the higher quality upscaling and sharper resulting downscaled image but at the end
nobody knows your panel sharpness or your viewing distance and preferences so just pick what you like.

[nevcairiel]

Thanks, Manni. I figured that was probably the case but thought I'd ask cause I didn't know for sure.

Actually, that depends on the player. If a player entirely ignores any Windows DPI handling, then the desktop scaling would in fact affect the video.

An application (ie. the player) would have to tell windows to not scale it, since it does its own scaling. Windows otherwise cannot scale selectively. It either scales the entire player, or nothing of it.

[WuNgUn]

Actually, that depends on the player. If a player entirely ignores any Windows DPI handling, then the desktop scaling would in fact affect the video.



An application (ie. the player) would have to tell windows to not scale it, since it does its own scaling. Windows otherwise cannot scale selectively. It either scales the entire player, or nothing of it.Can someone help with my scaling...
Whenever I'm in 23Hz film mode, my TV overscans. The TV doesn't give me an option to resize and scaling from the nVidia CP just reduces the resolution to make the image fit...
What to do!?

[SamuriHL]

Actually, that depends on the player. If a player entirely ignores any Windows DPI handling, then the desktop scaling would in fact affect the video.

An application (ie. the player) would have to tell windows to not scale it, since it does its own scaling. Windows otherwise cannot scale selectively. It either scales the entire player, or nothing of it.

Well, ok....you obviously know which player I use. :D Is this something I have to worry about with madvr in JRiver?

[nevcairiel]

Well, ok....you obviously know which player I use. :D Is this something I have to worry about with madvr in JRiver?

Not usually. Things only get tricky if you mix screens with different scaling values. And the madVR OSD would tell you the resolution that madVR thinks its rendering to, if thats not the real screen res, then you know something is wrong.

[huhn]

the madVR OSD is clear about this so you are fine browser have problem with this.

[SamuriHL]

Thanks, guys. Much appreciated!

[tp4tissue]

Guys, which scenario is right - NGU Sharp low+SSIM 1D 100 AR LL, or NGU Sharp medium+Bicubic 150 AR LL?

Obviously, you put everything you can into Luma, then consider chroma.

If it's downscaling, then it really doesn't matter what the chroma is because you're gonna have enough power to ngu both.

In the case of NGU then downscale, Unless it's from a very very small resolution to slightly higher than native res, then downscale, it doesn't really matter, because NGU makes posterized edges on these. And from a distance they look the same as cheaper algorithms

[Klaus1189]

Can someone help with my scaling...
Whenever I'm in 23Hz film mode, my TV overscans. The TV doesn't give me an option to resize and scaling from the nVidia CP just reduces the resolution to make the image fit...
What to do!?

Manufacturer of TV? What Firmware version?

[Siso]

In the case of NGU then downscale, Unless it's from a very very small resolution to slightly higher than native res, then downscale, it doesn't really matter, because NGU makes posterized edges on these. And from a distance they look the same as cheaper algorithms

I'm using image doubling for 1080p, then downscaling to 3440x1440p.

[WuNgUn]

Manufacturer of TV? What Firmware version?It's a Samsung UN75RU8000FXZC, software version 1351.3
Pictire size settings in settings is just greyed out

[Klaus1189]

There's a known bug introduced in firmware version 1290, last working was 1270.
Please try and play a 25fps file or 50 fps file and play it at 50 Hz. Picture should be also cut off.
The only refresh rate which is fine should be 60 Hz.

And what HDMI mode do you use? I assume PC mode for 4:4:4 color / RGB support.

[WuNgUn]

There's a known bug introduced in firmware version 1290, last working was 1270.
Please try and play a 25fps file or 50 fps file and play it at 50 Hz. Picture should be also cut off.
The only refresh rate which is fine should be 60 Hz.

And what HDMI mode do you use? I assume PC mode for 4:4:4 color / RGB support.

Thanks for the reply... Typical swift Samsung updates to fix issues!
Seeing the issue on all refresh rates other than 60hz, correct.

Yes, PC mode on the HDMI input...

There is resizing in the nVidia control panel, but as I mentioned earlier, it isn't shrinking the overscanning, it's reducing the resolution... Which I don't think is something I wanna do. Native resolution only.

[Klaus1189]

Yes you are right that you cannot fix this issue in driver settings on the gfx card, because the TV is simply cutting off the picture called overscan. I personally never really understood why TVs which only have digital inputs anymore have the overscan feature built in.
All HDMI signals I am aware of are free on anything that needs to be cut off other than old Video from VHS for example :)

[tp4tissue]

Yes you are right that you cannot fix this issue in driver settings on the gfx card, because the TV is simply cutting off the picture called overscan. I personally never really understood why TVs which only have digital inputs anymore have the overscan feature built in.
All HDMI signals I am aware of are free on anything that needs to be cut off other than old Video from VHS for example :)

Cable boxes which receive broadcast with bad edges. None of us watch cable. but many still do. :scared:

[WuNgUn]

I guess that makes sense... The TV should recognize the signal though, and treat it as such....

[huhn]

overscan is gone with UHD samsung should really fix this.

try in the nvidia driver display -> adjust desktop colour settings -> content type reported to display.

if they follow specs and you have something like graphic, desktop programs, games or similar you maybe able to beat it but you are most likely wasting your time.

[tp4tissue]

samsung can definitely disable overscan, Try PC mode.

[DMU]

In PC mode with a frequency of 23, 24, 25, 50 Hz will be overscan. With frequencies 29, 30, 59, 60 the image will be fit to screen.

[Klaus1189]

It can but there is bug that other than 60 Hz in pc mode overscan is always cutting off the image. 1270 is last working fine.

[WuNgUn]

It can but there is bug that other than 60 Hz in pc mode overscan is always cutting off the image. 1270 is last working fine.Is this older firmware available online? Can the TV be downgraded?

[Klaus1189]

No, I asked Samsung but it can‘t be downgraded.

[tp4tissue]

No, I asked Samsung but it can‘t be downgraded.

obviously it can, but they won't tell us how.

But don't sweat it, the 60hz works mode works fine. perfect cadence is over-rated. :D

For future reference, Roku platform tvs are the BEST behaved for monitor use. everything just works, and they don't have any crazy image processing stuff that destabilizes the display response..

My samsung doesn't even support 444 in 23/24hz mode. but on my $200 roku tv no problem,

[Klaus1189]

I created a new thread, so this thread can be releaved on TV issues:
Television issues and firmware bugs and buyers guide for your next TV (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=180421)

[traykov77]

On samsung tv you can try to use not pc mode and in picture options set full pixell, not 16:9.

[madjock]

If only there was a TV Thread. :confused:

[WuNgUn]

On samsung tv you can try to use not pc mode and in picture options set full pixell, not 16:9.I don't see where you can change HDMI input mode... Just stays as PC

[traykov77]

I don't see where you can change HDMI input mode... Just stays as PC

on every hdmi input you can edit name and set pc, dvi, receiver .... or just hdmi. when hdmi is not on pc mode you have full option on picture settings enabled.

[el Filou]

For me 113 has improved significantly. And I think my gtx1060 can hold for longer time.
the problem is the rendertimes are not correct anymore 23p may work with 42 ms don't think about it just take it.He claims the render times are more accurate in 113 than they were in the past and that even though they've "increased" they were in reality always that high.
I've done some tests with v113 on my HTPC and while I didn't notice lower GPU usage in "low load" scenarios, what I'm seeing is much more stable GPU clocks. For example when watching 576p on 1080 with NGU Very High, where before GPU was varying a lot between ~1533 and ~1721 MHz it nows stays put at 1620.
The better performance is real, I can now use the live tone mapping to watch HDR instead of measurement files. :cool:
Not sure about the inaccuracy of rendering times. On one test I did they were ~40-41 ms for 25p and it couldn't keep the render queue full so they seemed accurate. The GPU certainly can keep up much better with really high loads now.
Shame for the smooth motion bug but if you don't use it it's a very good build indeed.

[SamuriHL]

Yea my experience with the build has shown slightly higher render times on my 2070 (I've not played too much on my 2080 laptop yet) but very much stable. I've had a couple times where I had to reboot the machine because I was getting really whacked dropped frames. I think that was just my machine being weird rather than some madvr issue. Overall, I've loved 113 VERY much. The PQ we get on dynamic tone mapping is insane. Yes, smooth motion not working sucks for a lot of OLED users. I'm one of those framerate matching people so it hasn't impacted me.

[chros]

I've done some tests with v113 on my HTPC and while I didn't notice lower GPU usage in "low load" scenarios
That's what I noticed as well: there's no change in GPU usage, but I haven't tested them very much.

[brad86]

If I were to keep settings the same, there is a rather large GPU usage jump when going from the older stable release to 112b when doing HDR tone-mapping.

That being said, my trusty old GTX 960 doesn't go past 70% usage worst-case-scenario, most likely due to sticking with Bicubic 75 for all downscale / upscale options. Anything like NGU seems like a complete waste on my 1080p display. Only so much you can do to filter a DVD or similar lower resolution sources. Not doubting that it might be good for upscaling 1080 to 2160 though, but thankfully I don't need to worry about that.

[el Filou]

There really has been a lot of development between the last official release and the latest test builds, even when not using the new features, so the jump in GPU usage is understandable.

I quite like NGU Sharp with 576p to 1080 as long as the source is good. There are ok DVDs and bad DVDs, on a good one I can see the difference easily between Jinc and NGU Sharp even on a plasma watching from 3 meters away.

[mrmojo666]

Hi mates,

sorry fot the OT question but after a week of reading around internet I'm totally confused.

I've got (a friend lends me for some weeks) a spyderx pro probe, I've tried to move first step in calibration by following some guides, but those guides are old or confused, do you have directions to find a good example of workflow to follow or guide or whatever you think can help me? I know you would discuss about this probe, but it's for free so i think can be good start.

Thank you

[huhn]

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/1471169-madvr-argyllcms.html

dated but correct.

[tp4tissue]

Hi mates,
Thank you

First, sell the spyderx, it's not good on dark reads. Get i1display pro or colormunki display.

Spyderx is good enough for IPS (@ minimum 200nits), but will error out on VA and OLED.

[huhn]

it can read down to 0.028 nits so you can use it for most LCDs and even if you have a deeper black than this there are ways to workaround it by not reading them.

[madjock]

First, sell the spyderx

I would have thought that his friend would be quite annoyed if he sold it.

[mrmojo666]

LOL

thank you guys :)

I was sure that someone discuss the probe :D but actually it is lend and i have a IPS LCD ...... so at the moment it's fine, in the future i'll take something different

that link is interesting, but focused on LUT, i woud like to calibrate the tv as best as possible with his controls (i have not only the htpc). But i think to have found enough information to start.

[Flavio61]

In my madVR configuration I have two separate profiles for the "Screen Config" and two profiles for "Properties". With the two profiles of the "Screen Config" I select based on the AR one profile for 16: 9 and one for 21: 9. These two profiles automatically activate (through the "Activate lens memory ..." parameter) the relative lens configuration on my JVC. In the two profiles of "properites" I select if a film is in SDR or in HDR and depending on the selected profile I send a command to through the software JVCControl.exe to activate the relative Picture Mode on the JVC. The problem is that if the two settings are active at the same time, only one works, or the lens setting is activated or the picture mode setting is activated, I cannot make them function together. Is there any solution?

[Dogway]

There are errors ("profiling has not been finished") after running long patches (above 79) with madTPG, this doesn't happen when using DisplayCAL patches. I'm unsure if this has to do with the probe sleep mode or something because it affects different models:
https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/aborted-profiling-has-not-been-finished/
https://hub.displaycal.net/forums/topic/profile-has-not-been-finished-madvr-3d-lut/

[Megalith]

How do you determine the minimum rendering time that's required to display video as intended? In most of the media I've played, I don't seem to notice any real stutter or lag as long as rendering is under 35 ms or so, but Gemini Man (60 FPS) only seems to look right when rendering is under 10 ms.

[ashlar42]

How do you determine the minimum rendering time that's required to display video as intended? In most of the media I've played, I don't seem to notice any real stutter or lag as long as rendering is under 35 ms or so, but Gemini Man (60 FPS) only seems to look right when rendering is under 10 ms.Divide 1000ms by frames per second.

At 60 fps you need to stay comfortably below 16.67ms per frame.
At 24 fps you need to stay comfortably below 41.67ms per frame.

Edit: madVR OSD (CTRL+J by default I think) gives you the value you are looking for on the vsync, frame line. The value is the frame one.