madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[ryrynz]

Don't get what you mean.

Stated what he means right at the start

is not required and bad practice.

[galego100]

Hello , with 300€ budget , which card i should buy ? It could be used one...I´m looking for 2080 TI or 3060 ti , to use it with Formovie Theater, for DTM , 2080 ti is enough?

[Amuat]

Stated what he means right at the start

Yes, but he/she seemed to be under the false impression that I was referring to FSE itself being required, when I was only referring to how disabling optimisations is required if you're going to use FSE, according to Sunspark, as I explained:

"Don't get what you mean, I was merely responding to Sunspark's comment ("Fullscreen exclusive only works properly now if that box is checked, since version 1909 of W10 I think (forget the exact #) because Microsoft changed how compositing works."), not advocating using FSE itself as a requirement."

[Sunspark]

Yes, if you're using FSE check that box. If you're not going to check the box, then don't use FSE and stick to standard windowed borderless fullscreen mode.

Gamers deal with the same thing. D3D9 vs D3D11 (&12) games, FSE, overlay, windowed borderless, etc.

What Microsoft does now is that without disable optimizations checked is that they insert a layer between a game running in FSE and the display. The game thinks it is using FSE, but it isn't. Most of the time it works fine, gamers have done benchmarks.

[huhn]

i guess i really didn't get the message through.
even if you check it you don't get FSE anymore. there are no guaranties anymore it's a dead end just look at overlay which was never used by any game i ever heard about i mean it would literally fail to start on amd if it doesn't have a fall back.
newer WDDM version just use windowed with a forced composition rate of 60 on win 10 making is pointless like nothing else.

hell on the win 11 version on my AMD system there is no madVR FSE any more at all i will still get presentation glitches if 2 screen are actively full screen and used there is no composition rate.

and all of this doesn't matter because there are a lot of different windows version active now with how they update. all can have different WDDM version and don't forget the GPU driver.

TL;DR if you have a working compibnation keep it.

[Sunspark]

My drivers are old, so my WDDM version is only 2.0, feature level 11_1.

I actually use overlay with madvr as a result and it works. Nothing else uses overlay though.

Pretty sure FSE still works for me (I disabled optimizations globally and I'm on an older build of W10) and I can see a minute GPU load difference vs having it on or off. All the presentation modes work though, whether Windows or Linux.

I agree with Huhn, people should not bother with FSE unless they're on old hardware or playing old games.

My other "real" machine is a Steam Deck.. Valve has been pretty lame with the drivers and won't release drivers that have hardware acceleration for encoding or decoding.. or OpenCL so there is no point running Windows there.. so on the Linux side, there is acceleration support, but it's just the usual VAAPI stuff and support for it is hit and miss with apps.. so over there I have set up VLC and Haruna (which uses libmpv), but I don't watch stuff on it. Haruna will use vaapi-copy but not native vaapi.. I don't know why.

[Garath]

hello! i have a problem with madvr.
setup: windows 11 22h2, rtx 3080, lg cx, lav filters-0.77.2 x64, madvr 197, mpc-be x64 (but I also tried mpc-hc and potplayer)


when I open an hdr file, it is not bright, the colours are pale.
I have the default settings on madvr, except 10bit, hdr passthrough, display mode and FSE (fse not working)

[Amuat]

Thank you all for the info. For some reason I thought that MPC-HC full screen mode should be used in tandem with madVR FSE, but I realize now that it's actually only the former that I require for my needs. So the MPC-HC full screen option (Use autochange fullscreen monitor mode) is not trying to be "exclusive", and I do not need to disable optimizations with only that on?


"...i will still get presentation glitches if..."

Do you mean to say that zero presentation glitches (let's say, for a 2 h movie) is actually a realistic target that you should strive for, or am I drawing a false conclusion?

[NDUS]

I'm sure it's not a priority, but just thought I'd say for information's purposes that MadVR has a bug on ultra-high-framerate monitors.
It worked well on my ol' 240hz display except for the occasional hang when I would drag it to a different refresh rate display. But MadVR doesn't like the new 540hz panel.

On 540hz, playing a video:
first 1sec of playback: normal playback
2sec-6sec: stuttering playback, MadVR statistics show "display" Hz incorrectly fluctuating from 100~180Hz
7sec-infinity: normal playback

Latest Win11 update, RTX 4090, latest MadVR beta (but also happens on the stable release), happens on any given LAV decoder setting
Happens on MPC-HC or MPC-BE with MadVR enabled
Doesn't happen with MPC video renderer enabled
Also happens when all monitors besides the 540hz one are off, so it's not a mixed refresh rate problem

[Sunspark]

@Amuat So test further.. don't use the player's refresh rate switching and use MadVR's refresh rate switching instead.

[huhn]

Thank you all for the info. For some reason I thought that MPC-HC full screen mode should be used in tandem with madVR FSE, but I realize now that it's actually only the former that I require for my needs. So the MPC-HC full screen option (Use autochange fullscreen monitor mode) is not trying to be "exclusive", and I do not need to disable optimizations with only that on?


"...i will still get presentation glitches if..."

Do you mean to say that zero presentation glitches (let's say, for a 2 h movie) is actually a realistic target that you should strive for, or am I drawing a false conclusion?

you shouldn't get continues presentation glitches with default settings.

I'm sure it's not a priority, but just thought I'd say for information's purposes that MadVR has a bug on ultra-high-framerate monitors.
It worked well on my ol' 240hz display except for the occasional hang when I would drag it to a different refresh rate display. But MadVR doesn't like the new 540hz panel.

On 540hz, playing a video:
first 1sec of playback: normal playback
2sec-6sec: stuttering playback, MadVR statistics show "display" Hz incorrectly fluctuating from 100~180Hz
7sec-infinity: normal playback

Latest Win11 update, RTX 4090, latest MadVR beta (but also happens on the stable release), happens on any given LAV decoder setting
Happens on MPC-HC or MPC-BE with MadVR enabled
Doesn't happen with MPC video renderer enabled
Also happens when all monitors besides the 540hz one are off, so it's not a mixed refresh rate problem
just VVR running at the start.

[Martin51]

Hello, I cannot get HDR passthrough to work with madVR. My laptop is connected to a LG HDR capable monitor via thunderbolt. Enabling HDR in windows just works fine, I see the HDR logo pop up on the monitor. I turned it off cause it's not needed for madVR.
In madVR settings I selected 'passthrough HDR to display' but playing a video just shows washed out colors, also in full screen. The GPUs of my laptop are Intel Irix Xe (11th gen) and NVIDIA GTX 1650 Ti and all drivers are up to date.

I see the following behavior depending on which GPU is used by MPC-HC:

- When using the intel gpu for video decoding (windows graphics 'Let windows decide'): video is not that smooth but colors are not washed out. Note: Colors are slightly brighter/vivid when I select the passthrough mode than with 'let madVR decide', but HDR is never triggered on the monitor.
- When using the NVIDIA gpu for video decoing ('High performance'): video is smooth but colors are washed out no matter which option I select for HDR in madVR.

Your help is appreciated.

[Garath]

Hello, I cannot get HDR passthrough to work with madVR. My laptop is connected to a LG HDR capable monitor via thunderbolt. Enabling HDR in windows just works fine, I see the HDR logo pop up on the monitor. I turned it off cause it's not needed for madVR.
In madVR settings I selected 'passthrough HDR to display' but playing a video just shows washed out colors, also in full screen. The GPUs of my laptop are Intel Irix Xe (11th gen) and NVIDIA GTX 1650 Ti and all drivers are up to date.

I see the following behavior depending on which GPU is used by MPC-HC:

- When using the intel gpu for video decoding (windows graphics 'Let windows decide'): video is not that smooth but colors are not washed out. Note: Colors are slightly brighter/vivid when I select the passthrough mode than with 'let madVR decide', but HDR is never triggered on the monitor.
- When using the NVIDIA gpu for video decoing ('High performance'): video is smooth but colors are washed out no matter which option I select for HDR in madVR.

Your help is appreciated.
check on madvr that the hdr monitor is the first in the list of devices

hello! i have a problem with madvr.
setup: windows 11 22h2, rtx 3080, lg cx, lav filters-0.77.2 x64, madvr 197, mpc-be x64 (but I also tried mpc-hc and potplayer)


when I open an hdr file, it is not bright, the colours are pale.
I have the default settings on madvr, except 10bit, hdr passthrough, display mode and FSE (fse not working)
any tips? :(

[e-t172]

Enabling HDR in windows just works fine, I see the HDR logo pop up on the monitor. I turned it off cause it's not needed for madVR.

Keep it on. If you enable Windows HDR then madVR will use the standard Windows HDR APIs, which nowadays are more modern and better supported than the GPU-specific APIs (which mostly only exist for historical reasons at this point) that madVR would use otherwise.

It's quite likely that your problems are caused by GPU-specific HDR APIs not supporting your hardware setup well (i.e. Optimus laptop), and you'd have better luck avoiding them.

[NDUS]

just VVR running at the start.

Happens with g-sync disabled and in windowed mode, which doesn't trigger g-sync, so I don't think it's possible

[Garath]

Keep it on. If you enable Windows HDR then madVR will use the standard Windows HDR APIs, which nowadays are more modern and better supported than the GPU-specific APIs (which mostly only exist for historical reasons at this point) that madVR would use otherwise.

It's quite likely that your problems are caused by GPU-specific HDR APIs not supporting your hardware setup well (i.e. Optimus laptop), and you'd have better luck avoiding them.
so we can use OS hdr? because it fixed my problem

hello! i have a problem with madvr.
setup: windows 11 22h2, rtx 3080, lg cx, lav filters-0.77.2 x64, madvr 197, mpc-be x64 (but I also tried mpc-hc and potplayer)


when I open an hdr file, it is not bright, the colours are pale.
I have the default settings on madvr, except 10bit, hdr passthrough, display mode and FSE (fse not working)

[huhn]

Happens with g-sync disabled and in windowed mode, which doesn't trigger g-sync, so I don't think it's possible
VVR works in window mode for a long time now.

seeing the screen fps rise from 220 to 240 is just normal here on one system.
still a bug but nothing will change about that here.

http://bugs.madshi.net/

[Amuat]

No matter whether I use FSE, only the full screen mode of MPC-HC, or only that of madVR (matching display mode), and also regardless whether I have optimizations on or off (or running as administrator or not), it's always somehow glitchy. What I mean is I very often have to start the video multiple times before I get full screen to work, as it so often only shows black. Now for the first time it dawned on me that I might have a larger problem with full screen, as I connected this to the fact that even Chrome is glitchy (flashes when scrolling, videos showing faded colors) after hitting F11. Any thoughts or suggestions?

[Damien147]

Amd driver crashes sometimes with 4K movie and needs system restart.Updated driver and even tried DDU but it happened again.Any ideas?

[Schwartz]

Sticking to DXVA2(Copy-Back) in LAV was what made video stable for me with my older R9 AMD card.

[Damien147]

D3D11 in LAV is very convenient for me to use.The crash happens only with 4k movies and sometimes,not always.If it happens it will happen at around half of the movie.It's not such a big problem but it would be nice to fix it.My PC is old and is on fire when I play a 4k movie.Maybe it crashes because it's ''overloaded'',I don't know.

[Siso]

D3D11 in LAV is very convenient for me to use.The crash happens only with 4k movies and sometimes,not always.If it happens it will happen at around half of the movie.It's not such a big problem but it would be nice to fix it.My PC is old and is on fire when I play a 4k movie.Maybe it crashes because it's ''overloaded'',I don't know.

Probably a faulty power supply, run some system tests.

[Damien147]

Ok,I will check.Thanks guys for guiding me.

[Sunspark]

Do a memory test too.

[Damien147]

OK,thanks.

[Perenista]

I need some help with madVR...

https://i.postimg.cc/V6KsTSSN/X1.jpg

https://i.postimg.cc/QCP88RJG/X2.jpg

That video is showed with a pink tone all over it, and if I try with VLC, it's normal.

Here's a sample of the affected file:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15EbddpiTW-dRkt0Z-NhoctWb1-5wigkT/view?usp=drive_link

Formato : AVC
Formato/Informações : Advanced Video Codec
Perfil do Formato : High@L3.1
Conf. do Formato : CABAC / 1 Ref Frames
Conf do Formato, CABAC : Sim
Conf do Formato, Quadros de Ref. : 1 quadro
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=29
ID do Codec : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duração : 5 min 0s
Modo da taxa de bits : Variável
Taxa de bits : 2 522 kb/s
Taxa de bits máxima : 3 750 kb/s
Largura : 704 pixels
Altura : 528 pixels
Proporção da imagem : 4:3
Modo de taxa de quadros : TConstante
Taxa de quadros : 29.970 (30000/1001) FPS
Padrão : Component
Color space : RGB
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Tipo de Scan : Progressivo
Bits/(Pixels*Quadros) : 0.226
Tamanho da Faixa : 90.5 MiB (91%)
Idioma : Inglês
Default : Sim
Forced : Não
Color range : Limited
Matrix coefficients : Identity

This is the first time I noticed this issue, with madVR and MPC-HC / MPC-BE.

MPC-BE x64 1.6.10
Filters currently loaded:
- Default DirectSound Device
- madVR Renderer
- ffdshow Audio Processor
- LAV Video Decoder
- Audio Switcher
- MPC Audio Decoder
- MPC Matroska Source

[Emulgator]

RGB subsampled, well, now that's something.
Wrong container info, and poor renderer believes it ?
VD2 chaching input driver 2.1 assumes "yuv420p (?)", and I would do the same.

P.S. To avoid ambiguity: I did not mean to call renderer "poor" as in "poor quality",
rather as in "could not know better, has been misinformed".
In German this is a valid first notion as in "armer Kerl" = "poor guy",
but now I see that it might have left a different first impression in English.

[Sunspark]

It's only MadVR that has the problem.. the other renderers can play it.

That said, why are you using such a low-quality file? It looks like it came off VHS tape or something.

[huhn]

madVR has no problem the file is flagged wrong.

the issue at best is a sanity check that ignores RGB flags when a file is subsampled that is missing here.

following flags even barely sane ones is not a wrong behaviour.

[Perenista]

It's only MadVR that has the problem.. the other renderers can play it.

That said, why are you using such a low-quality file? It looks like it came off VHS tape or something.This is a VHS capture (made because of the audio content, not the image itself, which I already have in 1080p). Do you all suggest a new recording?

Also, is there a chance (since my source is from Brazil) it's in PAL-M? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAL-M

Back in the 1990s this was the system used for TVs, which is different from regular PAL and NTSC.

[Sunspark]

Yes, just take the audio track from the VHS capture, and remux it into the 1080p one you have as another selectable audio track. What software you use to assemble the mkv will depend.. Handbrake is one you could consider using.

[Damien147]

Amd driver crashes sometimes with 4K movie and needs system restart.Updated driver and even tried DDU but it happened again.Any ideas?

D3D11 in LAV is very convenient for me to use.The crash happens only with 4k movies and sometimes,not always.If it happens it will happen at around half of the movie.It's not such a big problem but it would be nice to fix it.My PC is old and is on fire when I play a 4k movie.Maybe it crashes because it's ''overloaded'',I don't know.

Probably a faulty power supply, run some system tests.

Do a memory test too.

I run windows memory diagnostics for the memory test and for PSU I followed this (https://forums.aida64.com/topic/4342-power-supply/) by running it for 3 and a half hours.Both results were fine without any problem.Any more ideas?

[Damien147]

Sticking to DXVA2(Copy-Back) in LAV was what made video stable for me with my older R9 AMD card.

Also tried this and full of dropped frames making movie unwatchable.Software decoding also gives me dropped frames because cpu is old.I am forced to use D3D11 and things there are going smooth except the sometimes crash with a 4k movie where I still don't know why it happens.I've also sent a report to AMD this time when it crashed.

[Schwartz]

That's weird, you shouldn't get noticeably worse performance since you can use HW-decoding for both DXVA2 and D3D11. D3D11 also produced crashes for me, usually releated to long video pauses and resuming later - this was before MPC-HC introduced the feature to fully stop and re-start video after long pauses.

[Damien147]

Dxva native plays just fine but as I read it's not recommended quality wise.Copy back yes,makes video unplayable.Maybe a driver problem?I don't remember having this problem in the past years with same settings.I am watching more 4k movies now though.

[Damien147]

Yep,crash again.Madvr gives ''getting display mode failed'' message as I see.Googled a bit about that and one guy used DDU to fix it and the other one updated his drivers.I've done both and no success.

[Damien147]

It seems like it was a driver problem and by installing an older adrenalin driver stopped the crashes.Thank you very much guys for trying to help.

[Damien147]

NGU AA med with 4K movie was too taxing on this old 4GB RX 470.It crashes with latest drivers while with older driver from 2022 it doesn't.I've got a 50 inch TV set at ~1.53 meters.If I set chroma to jinc is the quality loss noticeable in my occasion?

[huhn]

try super xbr.
polaris can't handle ngu.
and something is very wrong when your device crashes and that's not madVR.

[Damien147]

NGU AA med for chroma and NGU sharp med for luma was what I was using for years with this polaris card.After updating to a most recent 2023 adrenalin driver crashes begun with this message:

"AMD crash Defender has detected an issue with your display driver. To prevent a system crash or hang, the display driver is now operating in safe mode with reduced functionality. It is recommended that you save all work and close any open applications. A system restart is required to restore your graphics hardware acceleration."

Before that I was stable for years and the only thing I changed was to update gpu driver.:confused:

Here (https://imgbb.com/r0Fzj7B) is my usage with NGU AA med for chroma.It's a 16:9 4K remux.Do you see something worrying?

[ryrynz]

So just do what the other guy did a few posts back and roll back your driver?

[Sunspark]

@Damien147 Don't go crazy with chroma upscaling. It only needs to be "good enough" in terms of colour, saturation, etc. Luma is where you will primarily notice differences between the algos.

If your memory is fine, maybe it's your power supply? Voltage rail issue?

[huhn]

no https://slow.pics/c/zUsy6eUa

[Damien147]

Happy new year guys!

So just do what the other guy did a few posts back and roll back your driver?

Yes,that's what I thought too and rolled back yesterday.The driver optimisation for this 2016 GPU finished years ago I suppose.It's not like I am missing something.I am gonna check again when another driver comes out to see what happens but I am not in a hurry.
@Damien147 Don't go crazy with chroma upscaling. It only needs to be "good enough" in terms of colour, saturation, etc. Luma is where you will primarily notice differences between the algos.

If your memory is fine, maybe it's your power supply? Voltage rail issue?

Yes,I've read in the past here guys mentioning that luma matters more than chroma but I didn't know exactly at what extend.I have my TV set for 40 degrees viewing angle.Is chroma observable in my case or not?I didn't know that.In normal viewing conditions I mean as I sit on my sofa and not by sticking your face to the screen to see a difference.

On an earlier post I said that I ran windows memory diagnostics for memory and for power supply I did this (https://forums.aida64.com/topic/4342-power-supply/).Both results told me that things are working properly.I don't experience any other instability on my system beyond this crash that happens with newer adrenalin driver and 4k source.With newer driver if I lower chroma crash seems to stop but I try to avoid lowering settings if I don't have dropped frames.

no https://slow.pics/c/zUsy6eUa

This makes me wanna keep using NGU AA med for chroma even more.I can see the difference in this comparison from my couch as I normally sit to watch a movie.

[huhn]

NGU AA places the chroma slightly wrong and is slow just use super xbr.

even through reconstruct is looking good here it can go totally of the rails in other scene. super XBR is cheap and pretty much never fails.

[Sunspark]

My fave chroma is mitchell-netravali on my hardware (igp).. it's not demanding on resources, and the nice thing about it, in terms of luster, body and colour it seems to have a good balance.. some other chroma algos tend to look "flat" or emphasize certain colours too much, etc. Super-xbr is a good choice too if you have a dedicated graphics card.

Luma is more complicated.. there's such a thing as too sharp. Very much personal taste there.

[Damien147]

NGU AA places the chroma slightly wrong and is slow just use super xbr.


Really?I thought NGU AA was the best thing if you could handle it.What sharpness you suggest with super xbr?Anti ringing filter ticked or not?
My aim is to have natural picture with best possible upscaling.

[huhn]

anti ringing on.
100 to 150.
150 is good for 1080p sources where another scaling is happening and at native resolution 100 is plenty.

[Damien147]

anti ringing on.
100 to 150.
150 is good for 1080p sources where another scaling is happening and at native resolution 100 is plenty.



I want to put a set and forget setting for everything.Does 150 have a negative impact at native resolution?
In general most of the movies I watch are full hd but when I have a choice I also watch 4k.
With what you are saying I am thinkin' anti ringing on and sharpness at 150 for everything but I don't know if 150 affects 4k in a negative way.Am I fine like that?


edit:I googled how to create a profile for chroma and found an article.Just copied some settings and succesfully created it with the settings you suggest.


huhn you've always been so helpful through the years and I really appreciate it.Thank you very much.



At last after 3 weeks a positive outcome was created.I guess I can use latest driver without a crash now that I lowered chroma.




Thank you all!!!

[Amuat]

This conversation has made me think again what would really be the best setup for a soft (but not blurry) image, which I'm after as I very much dislike any amount of graininess. I've been using NGU AA with reduce ringing artifacts (and reduce dark halos), reduce compression artifacts at 7 medium (with chroma also) and soften edges at 3. Would it be better to use Jinc, as it only upscales without doubling? Or does it give overall worse image quality (and if NGU AA is problematic, then compare it to NGU Soft)? It has less sharpness, but also slightly more aliasing and ringing, and no amount of hide source artifacts. Then again, it wins clearly on "other artifacts", whatever they are. Are there also other things to consider (naturally my monitor is at zero sharpness and I'm also using Philips' noise reduction at maximum)?