madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[huhn]

hdmi content type is more than filmmaker mode and other stuff try to force it in the GPU driver.

you could at least try that.
it even has the same menu as my old buggy TV. try option settings -> HDMI content type.

BTW. there is pure (very buggy)direct mode which you don't have according to your words.

[nightrhyme]

You guys are gods
I just spend another hour going through settings and deep I found hdmi content type. 4 options. And setting it to OFF fixed it.

Thank you so much for your help. Much appreciated. I would have never found this on my own

[VBB]

Awesome! Good thing huhn remembered how Panasonics work ;)

What I don't get is, why would a display even have options for HDMI Content Type other than on/off? After all, this feature is supposed to allow the source to dictate what mode the display should switch into. The modes exposed depend on the display's/AVRs' EDID. Another half-assed (and, of course, optional) HDMI implementation...

[el Filou]

Don't know how it is on newer Panasonic displays, but on my plasma you can configure some settings différently for each HDMI content type. For example, the sharpness setting (i.e. detail enhancement) changes dynamically depending on the content type so you can set a sharper image for e.g. computer UI or games and softer for photos and movies (other settings change too). I don't use it but I think it could be useful in some cases.

[Stereodude]

Don't know how it is on newer Panasonic displays, but on my plasma you can configure some settings différently for each HDMI content type. For example, the sharpness setting (i.e. detail enhancement) changes dynamically depending on the content type so you can set a sharper image for e.g. computer UI or games and softer for photos and movies (other settings change too). I don't use it but I think it could be useful in some cases.
I'm pretty sure that's not what they're talking about. They're talking about the GPU sending a command or mode information through HDMI that changes the way the display handles it.

[VBB]

What Filou is describing is part of the feature we're discussing, HDMI Content Type. Panasonic seem to be the only display manufacturer to implement this into their TVs. Maybe Samsung as well. LG don't use it, as far as I can tell.

[huhn]

it's a well known feature every knows what it does: https://youtu.be/VDG_lmEPc_g?t=1136

[VBB]

Not so sure about everyone. Our Danish friend didn't even know his TV had that option ;)

[huhn]

sorry i tried irony. this "auto..." reaction was just nice.

what so ever pannasonic is very aggressive with this feature when i gave my mom my TV it was going nuts with the BD play by switching between mode when in the menu and when in the movie she was instantly annoyed by it. it is a panasonic BD player.

[VBB]

huhn, du musst an deinem Sarkasmus arbeiten :D

[nightrhyme]

Yeah I’m in the process of learning Everything about the panny. I actually bought a Sony a8h too. Testing them and Will keep the one I like the best.

Since you guys seem so knowledgeable I was wondering if it would be possible to cast 4K hdr from win10 pc to the tv in some way. The Sony has inbuilt chromecast.

[Dogway]

@madshi, I don't know what tonemapping algorithm you used for HDR to SDR but I found this (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8993817) paper very useful (an enhanced Dolby PQ based tonemapper). Looks fast and easy to implement.

[mclingo]

@madshi, I don't know what tonemapping algorithm you used for HDR to SDR but I found this (https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/8993817) paper very useful (an enhanced Dolby PQ based tonemapper). Looks fast and easy to implement.

Hi, Madshi no longer visits this forum at the moment, if you wish to contact him try:

https://www.avsforum.com/members/madshi.7500952/

https://madvrenvy.com/#aboutus

Contact Us
madVR Labs, LLC
9710 Traville Gateway Drive #150
Rockville, MD 20850 USA
+1 301-664-4684
hello@madvr.com

[KoKlusz]

Anyone knows the correct way to play HLG files via madVR, or PC in general?

[VBB]

madVR doesn't fully support HLG at this time. Playback will work, but it will be in SDR. For more info and how to get it to (potentially) work on PC, see the discussion in the MPC-BE thread. Check the last few pages here: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=165890

[KoKlusz]

Thanks.

[DMU]

Can you please tell me how to disable the display of the profile name in the upper left corner when switching to it?

[HillieSan]

I am using madvr beta 114 with a GTX 1080. The tonemapping improves some movies more than others. It also improves HDR movies on a HDR screen with a few adjustments. This is unexpected. What worries me is that Windows does not switch to HDR mode on the GTX card. I get a purple image. I need to switch to the HDR mode manually in Windows. My AMD RX 480 switches just fine to HDR mode. Is this problem known with NVidia cards?

[VBB]

What are your video card settings? Do you have "output video in HDR format" checked in madVR? Nvidia cards handle this just fine without the need to trigger HDR manually via Windows.

[HillieSan]

I have used HDR passthrough and "output video in HDR format" and both do not switch Windows into HDR mode. I need to switch Windows into HDR mode to fix the problem. I am using madVR is RGB mode and the NVidia card uses the output settings from the application.

EDIT: I am using DXVA2 copyback. On AMD I used DX11 playback. I read in this forum that more people have this issue with nvidia cards (in 2019). I will try DX11.

[HillieSan]

D3D11 did not help.

I am using MPC BE + madvr 114 + latest lavfilters.

[VBB]

Sounds odd. What display are you using, and what are the rendering settings in madVR (FS exclusive, overlay, D3D11, etc.)? What version Nvidia driver?

[HillieSan]

JVC X5000 projector
FS exclusive on (and off, no matter)
NGU very high (rest determined by madvr)
Latest NVidia drivers
Lavfilter 0.74-1-90 D3D11
GTX 1080

Seems to be a known problem. One created a HDR switch program to make Windows switch to HDR using a link. I will try that, but it’s an ugly solution.

[composter]

Ever since I upgraded to Windows 10 all my HDR videos that have the MadMeasureHDR measurements file next to it play almost completely black. FALLStDev is at 0 at all times, pitch black picture.
I upgraded to beta 113 and done the HDR measure again and no difference.
If I play the video without measurements file it plays fine with its on-the-fly HDR to SDR conversion, but the picture is obviously not ideal that way.
AT first I thought it was the upgrade to 3080 GPU but I tried the old 2080Ti on the new system and the same pitch black picture on both cards.
Any ideas what could be the problem?

[arcspin]

It has been a long time since the measurement files worked.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/madvr-tool-madmeasurehdr-optimizer-measurements-dynamic-clipping-target-nits.3040072/post-59521352

Last entry in the above thread is from eight months ago.

Sent from my SM-F916B using Tapatalk

[composter]

It has been a long time since the measurement files worked.

Ok, since the latest Windows version they don't work on any MadVR beta version, not even beta 40.

I thought using measurements was by far the most optimal way to enjoy dynamic HDR tonemapping with MadVR. Why was this abandoned? Is the on-the-fly method better now? From what I'm seeing on my benchmark video it's nowhere near as good as when I used the measurements file, though I am deducting this from memory since I can't compare as it won't work anymore of course...

[kuchikirukia]

Are there known issues playing 4k 60fps Hi10P content with madVR? I keep locking up MPC-HC where EVR plays it fine.

[Klaus1189]

What happens exactly? Any special settings you adjusted in madVR?

[kuchikirukia]

Looks like I had my GPU queue size too high.

[el Filou]

Ok, since the latest Windows version they don't work on any MadVR beta version, not even beta 40.
I thought using measurements was by far the most optimal way to enjoy dynamic HDR tonemapping with MadVR. Why was this abandoned? Is the on-the-fly method better now?I may have been experiencing a specific issue, but measurement files never worked for me after test build 86 or 87 (can't remember exactly), even on older Windows versions. People have said they still worked but I never succeeded in using them again so I abandoned them and I'm very happy with the updated on-the-fly method.
I think madshi abandoned them because it was not a viable long-term development path, not everyone wants to analyse a source file (and then ideally optimise the measurements with another tool) before playing it and on the Envy it's just not possible, so all the following development was done for the on-the-fly method.
I think it's more advanced than the measurement files now.

[SamuriHL]

It is. And beyond that if he ever adds the look ahead to the realtime (where it reads a few frames in advance) then the realtime will have the same benefit in reality of the measurement file.

[juffi]

I have tried to get 3D MVC working with GTX 1650. Looks like madVR is broken with 3D MVC and Madshi has said there may be a fix coming. What is the current status? Is there any test available?

[seiyafan]

On a 1440p monitor, which of the these two gives better quality? upscale from 1080 or downscale from 4k?

[Klaus1189]

Oversampling is superior but it depends on your sources. If you have "only" 1080p sources then it will be better to upscale 1080p to 1440p because you can't downscacle from 2160p ;)

[Alexkral]

Why not? He's asking which one would give better quality, so I assume he has both sources. I would say it's the other way around, a sharp downscaler like catrom would find its way to keep some details that are present in the 2160p source, but in the 1080p source just don't exist.

[huhn]

he defined "oversampling".

ignoring source issues downscaling should be generally better but make sure you are using SSIM other scaler in madVR are not up to the task because it's missing a crucial feature for these scaler.

[tp4tissue]

On a 1440p monitor, which of the these two gives better quality? upscale from 1080 or downscale from 4k?

The 4k is superior in all cases under all circumstances.

Videos are stored in 4:2:0 chroma subsampled formats.

1080p videos only have 960x540 color resolution. Right there you lose a bunch of texture detail.

Then most 1080p vids are h264, which means you lose another ~30% detail vs similar bitrate h265 files.

Then of course, 4K has 4x the luma resolution.

Then there's 10bit, which again improves texture fidelity and gradients.

[HillieSan]

This make me think. I have a JVC X5000 with e-shift to 4K. Currently, I use NGU sharp with e-shift and e-shift makes the sharpness a bit softer. The result is good.

Would upscaling to 4K and downscaling to native 1080p a better option than using e-shift 4K?

[Klaus1189]

Good question, I don't know. Here is a video (https://youtu.be/MMKOS3DQkjk?t=570), I know it is german only, but I added a timestamp, where you can compare 4 different screenshots regarding socalled "4K". They were allowed to put 4K logo on it because the spec only says pixel in width which is fine.
eshift is far away from native 4K

[HillieSan]

Thanks for the video. I understand German quite well.

In my opinion the eshift 4K is better than Full HD in detail but makes the image a bit softer. Of course eshift is not true 4K. NGU sharp with eshift gives me good results at the distance of 3 meters.

HDR passthrough works better than tonemapping for most movies (HDR->HDR). For some other movies it is the reverse where tonemapping improves a lot (HDR->HDR). I have noticed that when changing the HDR passthrough/tonemapping settings, the Apply button is not working well. It has trouble to restore the full colors for HDR passthrough. It was like tonemapping was always better than HDR passthrough, which was false. I had to restart the player every time I change the setting to HDR passthrough. There are many variables I have played with, so perhaps I did something wrong.

[huhn]

e shift is real 4K they can show an image with alternating pixel at 4K even with chroma. is native resolution better yes but that's not the topic here.
in the end e shift works similar to CRT and crts have a resolution over 1 pixel don't they?
BTW. the fact that they say "du must das ja ihrgeht wo hin schieben aber es gibt ja gakeine freie fläche" they really don't have a clue how e shift works?

about 1080p at 1080p with e shift. on AVS they claim 4k is better here but i can clearly see a point for 1080p here i guess you should try it.

[Manni]

e shift is real 4K they can show an image with alternating pixel at 4K even with chroma. is native resolution better yes but that's not the topic here.
in the end e shift works similar to CRT and crts have a resolution over 1 pixel don't they?
BTW. the fact that they say "du must das ja ihrgeht wo hin schieben aber es gibt ja gakeine freie fläche" they really don't have a clue how e shift works?

about 1080p at 1080p with e shift. on AVS they claim 4k is better here but i can clearly see a point for 1080p here i guess you should try it.

e-shift isn't 4K with the JVCs, it's about 3K.

It takes 4K content (or 1080p if it upscales), splits each 2160p frame into two 1080p subframes, then displays each 1080p subframes shifted temporally half a pixel to the left and half a pixel up (or similar) to increase perceived resolution.

You would need four 1080p subframes from each 2160p frame, not two, to get 4K with e-shift, but then you hit refresh rate issues, as displaying 4 subframes within one frame is harder that displaying two, especially at 60p, as you'd need 240hz instead of 120hz.

Some DLPs have real 4K resolution with eshift, but the JVCs don't.

Native 4K is definitely better than 1080p e-shift, at least on the JVCs. Clearly visible on patterns and with real content.

I had an X7000 (rs500) e-shift and I have now an NX7 (RS2000), there is no contest.

[huhn]

ok i try to remember that JVC doesn't do it correctly.
even cheap one in 2020 talk about 4x.
there are also mirrors with a different resolution like 2160x1920 which only need 2 images.

[HillieSan]

The JVC NX5 is native 4K and goes for €5999. I bought the X5000 new for €3500 at the time. What I like about this X5000 is that I see no grid, great black levels and HDR support (I had a DLP Sharp Z200E before). Perhaps after 5 years I will buy a new 4K with 8K eshift JVC :-) But for now the X5000 will do fine. NGU sharp very high improves the image of the X5000 with eshift.

A long time ago I used bluesky to interpolate the images on 60Hz and it significantly improved the images, but NGU could not be used (judder). I want to try this first with a RTX 3060 Ti.

[huhn]

my comment was more about how projectors are still making good progress. the nx5 is a bit older than 2020.

neither the 5700 xt nor nvidia GPU support bluesky the same should be true for the 6000 series.

[HillieSan]

I will also look into SVP and madvr smooth motion.

[huhn]

madVR smoothmotion is unrelated to SVP or bluesky.

[70MM]

if (deintfps < 24.5) AND (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768) "SD 24fps"
if (deintfps < 25.5) AND (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768) "SD 25fps"
if (deintfps < 61) AND (srcWidth <= 1050) and (srcHeight <= 768) "SD 60fps"
if (deintfps < 24.5) AND (HDR) "HDR 24fps"
if (deintfps < 25.5) AND (HDR) "HDR 25fps"
if (HDR) "HDR 60fps"
if (deintfps < 24.5) "HD 24fps"
if (deintfps < 25.5) "HD 25fps"
else "HD 60fps"

Asmodian you helped me write this script and I must admit its been absolutely amazing for me using my 1080Ti card on the higher madvr settings. However over the last few days Ive run into problems with 24 material thats 720 and not my normal 1080 files. As I use the highest settings on 24 1080 files, when a 720 file is played Im dropping frames like crazy! I need to have a script with lower settings for the 720 files to stop the dropped frames....

Can you help me again please to address the 720 files say at 24, 25 and 60 please? Is script added to the 24 section or does something seperate have to be written?

Thank you in advance...

[huhn]

setting the SD 24/25/60 profile to luma quadruple to disable or a lower NGU setting should do the trick.

[70MM]

Thank you hunn, do you mean I disable Luma Quadrupling as at the moment its "let madvr decide"?
Is this not used at all on 1080 material?