madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[kennae]

With the latest build everything works the best ever, and I mean it. Thanks a ton!
Only thing I still need is the automatic refresh rate changer that does it right. ;)

[StrifeLeonhart]

Finally, after 5 days I can post here to thank you madshi and ask you some questions.

So I would like to say, thank you very very very much for your aswome job, finlly someone who says Quality is above all!!!


madshi I also would like to say this,

I dont care about performance (in time it will be acceptable i think), as long as it has the Highest Quality, and you also support Windows XP which is aswome, as I have 2 PCs 1 with XP and 1 with windows 7.


I have some questions madVR options,

1) general settings: I have "Unchecked" "enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode", and and I have "Checked" "disable destop compositon (Vista and newer)" as i dont use Aero,

Making these settings like this does it lower the quality?

Does "Checking" "use managed upload textures (XP only)" better to use in windows XP?


2) Exlusive mode settings: I have "Unchecked" "show seek bar"

Does this lower quality aswel?


Now as final question, is there any other option I can set to make it even Higher Quality?

[Hypernova]

Finally, after 5 days I can post here to thank you madshi and ask you some questions.

So I would like to say, thank you very very very much for your aswome job, finlly someone who says Quality is above all!!!


madshi I also would like to say this,

I dont care about performance (in time it will be acceptable i think), as long as it has the Highest Quality, and you also support Windows XP which is aswome, as I have 2 PCs 1 with XP and 1 with windows 7.


I have some questions madVR options,

1) general settings: I have "Unchecked" "enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode", and and I have "Checked" "disable destop compositon (Vista and newer)" as i dont use Aero,

Making these settings like this does it lower the quality?

Does "Checking" "use managed upload textures (XP only)" better to use in windows XP?


2) Exlusive mode settings: I have "Unchecked" "show seek bar"

Does this lower quality aswel?


Now as final question, is there any other option I can set to make it even Higher Quality?

No, no, no, and no. :)

1.1 Enable exclusive mode can improve performance in fullscreen mode.

1.2 If you disable Aero in the first place, that option won't do a thing.

2.1 As said, that option enable madVR seekbar in exclusive mode. Since you disable exclusive mode, it won't do a thing.

2.2 There are options to trade quality for performance (clearly labled), but there is no "extra" quality options, just your choice of scaling.

[fps]

I have some questions madVR options,

1) general settings: I have "Unchecked" "enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode", and and I have "Checked" "disable destop compositon (Vista and newer)" as i dont use Aero,

Making these settings like this does it lower the quality?

If you uncheck "enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode" your video will always be played in windowed mode. I'll qoute what madshi said some time ago:

madVR tries to optimize vsync switching so that there's no tearing in windowed mode. It works for most people, but not all.

Exclusive mode has a number of advantages, one of which is the guarantee to never have tearing. Exclusive mode has one disadvantage, though: You can't have normal GUI (windows, context menus) etc during exclusive mode. So if the media player tries to show some GUI, madVR will have to switch between exclusive and windowed mode, and the switch is not perfectly seamless.


2) Exlusive mode settings: I have "Unchecked" "show seek bar"

Does this lower quality aswel?
If you uncheck this option you force a switch between fullscreen exclusive mode and windowed mode. The seek bar of your player can only be shown in windowed mode, so in order to be able to seek, madVR has to switch from FSE to windowed mode. The only really disadvantage of the seek bar of madVR is that there is no timing info yet. The advantage to stay in FSE mode outweighs this problem by far though imo. So if you use FSE you shouldn't uncheck "show seek bar".


Now as final question, is there any other option I can set to make it even Higher Quality?
I don't think so, you can only make it look worse with the "trade quality for performance" tab ;). If you leave those settings at default you should get maximum quality.

[jmone]

Oh, what you have posted there is not correct, and the Pioneers don't do interpolation unless you are using them in the "smooth" mode. (which is anything but)

Drive Mode 1 = 75Hz
Drive Mode 2 = 100Hz
Drive Mode 3 = 60Hz

The drive modes only apply to a 50Hz input signal. They have no effect on a 24p or 60Hz input.
The only thing that has an effect on 24p is setting purecinema to advanced which causes the set to use 3:3 and display a 24p input at 72Hz.

With a 50Hz input for film content you should use DM1, if you will be using that input for a mixture of video/film use DM2. Never use DM3. DM3 is only there because, being a plasma, the picture quality gets worse as refresh rate increases. However 50Hz content played back at 60Hz is never smooth.


This is part of the reason I got rid of my Kuros, anything over 60Hz was unwatchable to me and the majority of my viewing was 24p film (72hz)

Thanks for that - OT: One of the odd things is the lack of documentation of what these settings do from Pio...all the stuff I have found are various (and normally confilicting) posts! If the Kuro is not interpolating frames, I have no idea what is creating the multiple individual overlapping "red squares" in the test pics as the source is individual non-overlapping ones and I don't see such a result on my PC. Anyway, looks like DM2 and Advanced is the go in my setup (Film, PAL, 50p with some NTSC both native and telecined).

[jmone]

My best guess is then that your GPU driver doesn't handle madVR's request to use a refresh rate of "0" (which means "same as desktop") properly. The new exclusive mode doesn't use "0", but the real refresh rate of the desktop. This problem should be fixed once I add automatic refresh rate changing.

This should also fix my Black Screen (New Path) issue when Relcock changes the rate as well! (will also then let me use J Rivers new Audio Rendering code!)

[6233638]

Hmmmmm... I've not watched a full movie with 25fps @ 50Hz yet, but on a quick check my integrated NVidia 9400 seems to be able to playback 25fps @ 50Hz with zero glitches (chroma: bilinear; luma: lanczos3). If my 9400 can do that, your 570 should be able to do it, too. Have you tried playing with the flush settings?Unfortunately, my 9400 system was disassembled before the new rendering path was released, but playback on it was perfect using Bicubic 75 on Chroma, Softcubic 50 on Luma and Lanczos 4 for downscaling.

It only seems to have been since building this new system that I've been having problems. I wonder if the drivers are different for the newer cards, even if they are numbered the same. I do remember right around the time the 500 series launched, that I tried to install the driver for one (normally I don't bother to select my GPU on the Nvidia site as they're supposed to be universal) and it said it was incompatible.


I have experimented with the flush settings and it seems that anything that stops the present error from happening (pretty much sleep/loop on "after copy to backbuffer") then causes my previous issue of the buffers gradually dropping to 0, or near-enough and having constant dropped frames. No combination seems to fix both.

As mentioned before, I only get these present errors when the refresh rate and video framerate are not matched 1:1.

24p film at 24Hz is fine, 25p film downclocked to 24Hz is fine, 25p video at 50Hz or 30p at 60Hz is not. Unfortunately I don't think my display accepts 25Hz or 30Hz.




And something unrelated to my problems that I have been meaning to ask:

A while ago you mentioned that the old rendering path was scaling chroma directly from the source resolution to the target resolution in a single step, and that the new render path you were working on would scale chroma to the luma resolution, and then scale chroma & luma to your target resolution using the selected luma algorithm on both.

Has this been implemented?

[tFWo]

Hello everyone.

First of all a big thanks to madshi for his hard work. :thanks:


I've been using madvr for a long time with no problems, until a month or so ago when i started having trouble with high fps (1080p60) videos. I've noticed that others were also reporting large amounts of dropped frames on their Ati cards with those and the solution seemed to be to go back to old drivers.

Five days ago i finally found out what was causing the problem ( at least on my system) - MPC-HC subtitles or more precisely it's Maximum texture resolution setting. For some reason i had that setting at the highest value.

If set to 2560x1600 ( maximum available ) resolution, it was causing a massive amount of dropped frames with high fps videos. If set to a lower value like 1920x1080 or my desktop resolution 1680x1050 the problem dissapeared.

It's interesting that this problem seems to be fixed by one of the last two madvr versions ( 0.55 or 0.56 ). I can set that setting to 2560x1600 and play high fps videos without large amounts of dropped frames.

But it still causes increased CPU & GPU usage. CPU usage goes up by about 10% or more and has more spikes, while GPU also goes up by 10%.


Hope this will help others with the same problem.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the problem was present in both windowed and fullscreen mode and was causing the backbuffer and render queues to drop to zero.

[Mark_A_W]

Hello everyone.

First of all a big thanks to madshi for his hard work. :thanks:


I've been using madvr for a long time with no problems, until a month or so ago when i started having trouble with high fps (1080p60) videos. I've noticed that others were also reporting large amounts of dropped frames on their Ati cards with those and the solution seemed to be to go back to old drivers.

Five days ago i finally found out what was causing the problem ( at least on my system) - MPC-HC subtitles or more precisely it's Maximum texture resolution setting. For some reason i had that setting at the highest value.

If set to 2560x1600 ( maximum available ) resolution, it was causing a massive amount of dropped frames with high fps videos. If set to a lower value like 1920x1080 or my desktop resolution 1680x1050 the problem dissapeared.

It's interesting that this problem seems to be fixed by one of the last two madvr versions ( 0.55 or 0.56 ). I can set that setting to 2560x1600 and play high fps videos without large amounts of dropped frames.

But it still causes increased CPU & GPU usage. CPU usage goes up by about 10% or more and has more spikes, while GPU also goes up by 10%.


Hope this will help others with the same problem.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the problem was present in both windowed and fullscreen mode and was causing the backbuffer and render queues to drop to zero.

I'm not sure that's it, I'm using Zoom Player and Cat 11.2 caused me chaos.

[tFWo]

Well this was the cause for my system.

I concluded that my problem seemed to appear with madvr version 0.44 when MPC HC subtitle support was introduced ( i switched from ffdshow subtitles to MPCHC subs then). Around that time you and others started to report similar problems so it might be connected :confused: .

[suanm]

What is your display refresh rate and your movie framerate? Versions newer than v0.49 have a new rendering path for exclusive mode, which works better for some people and worse for others. You can switch v0.56 to the same method v0.49 used by activating the option "present only one frame at a time" in the madVR settings dialog.


I will do as what you said above once I am free:thanks:madshi
PS:my displayer refresh rate 50 or 60Hz,movies fratemate is 4 frame , 5 or 8 ,too

[renq]

Any possibilty of getting CPU (GPU???) usage in the CTRL+J OSD?

[moliko]

after long 5 days

using: mpc-hc, ffdshow, lavsplitter, madvr
i got problems with sounds playback of aac (lc) & pcm (big/unsigned) in mov and mp4 container
the sound is scratchy and many clicks and pops
when i change back to evr renderer i have a clear sound

And now i have scratchy sound in some mkv with ac3 too, i got this terrible sound only in combination with madvr.

but i like the damn good video quality with spline

i do not like change back to evr in some files

how can it possible that madvr destroy my sound


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0NYZMKP5

here is a sample of my sound
it sounds to me when i use madvr

[Mark_A_W]

madshi, the disable desktop composition setting (obviously when the PC has Aero enabled), drops it to 60i, rather than 96i. During the black flash Powerstrip is disabled somehow - in a similar fashion to when you install a program and it all goes dark for the prompt question.

My workaround is to turn of Aero completely, just thought you'd like to know.

[jdl]

First of all, a big :thanks: for this wonderful software!

A quick question, after updating my ffdshow, madvr, resetting MPC-HC I have everything working pretty well. Using the lavsplitter and Arcsoft HD audio decoder to get DTS-MA, too. :cool: My rather modest setup (ATI 5450, Win7, 2.4GHz CoreDuo CPU) can play all but the most demanding material (i.e. Avatar).

My question is when I launch MPC-HC from within XBMC, it comes up in full screen, but not exclusive mode. If I bring up the settings window for one of the filters and then close it, it will switch to exclusive mode and all is well. Not sure if this is a madvr issue or MPC-HC?

[nlnl]

Some remarks about vc-1 stream in m2ts container.

.56, W7, 5750, 11.3, MPC-HC, Aero on

8 prepresented frames
Cyberlink 10 decoder - madvr reports unknown fps, very smooth, no dropping frames
MPC HC decoder - madvr reports 23.976, very smooth, no dropping frames
WMV decoder - madvr reports 23.976, many dropped and delayed frames

4 prepresented frames
Cyberlink 10 decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
MPC HC decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
WMV decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames

16 prepresented frames
Cyberlink 10 decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
MPC HC decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
WMV decoder - many dropped and delayed frames


:thanks: madshi for all!

[6233638]

after long 5 days

using: mpc-hc, ffdshow, lavsplitter, madvr
i got problems with sounds playback of aac (lc) & pcm (big/unsigned) in mov and mp4 container
the sound is scratchy and many clicks and pops
when i change back to evr renderer i have a clear sound

And now i have scratchy sound in some mkv with ac3 too, i got this terrible sound only in combination with madvr.

but i like the damn good video quality with spline

i do not like change back to evr in some files

how can it possible that madvr destroy my sound


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0NYZMKP5

here is a sample of my sound
it sounds to me when i use madvrWhat is your CPU usage like? Usually that is the cause of audio problems.


Some remarks about vc-1 stream in m2ts container.

.56, W7, 5750, 11.3, MPC-HC, Aero on

8 prepresented frames
Cyberlink 10 decoder - madvr reports unknown fps, very smooth, no dropping frames
MPC HC decoder - madvr reports 23.976, very smooth, no dropping frames
WMV decoder - madvr reports 23.976, many dropped and delayed frames

4 prepresented frames
Cyberlink 10 decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
MPC HC decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
WMV decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames

16 prepresented frames
Cyberlink 10 decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
MPC HC decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
WMV decoder - many dropped and delayed frames


:thanks: madshi for all!

I have never found the WMV Decoder to have smooth playback with madVR and use libavcodec.

[Plutotype]

after long 5 days

using: mpc-hc, ffdshow, lavsplitter, madvr
i got problems with sounds playback of aac (lc) & pcm (big/unsigned) in mov and mp4 container
the sound is scratchy and many clicks and pops
when i change back to evr renderer i have a clear sound

And now i have scratchy sound in some mkv with ac3 too, i got this terrible sound only in combination with madvr.

but i like the damn good video quality with spline

i do not like change back to evr in some files

how can it possible that madvr destroy my sound


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0NYZMKP5

here is a sample of my sound
it sounds to me when i use madvr

Hi,

terrible glitches on your setup. Pls download this utitlity, run it with madVR and EVR a post both results:
http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

I have reported DPC issues with madVR a 2 months ago. Some sound chips can handle the sound also if DPC peaks are occuring - without any sound glitches. This is the case of my motherboards Realtek ALC889. But my main soundcard, RME Babyface does not like DPC latencies at all - I hear occasional dropouts ( not like yours ) when mpc-hc with madVR is running.

The difference in DPC latency between EVR and madVR is here to see:
http://img12.imageshack.us/f/evrcpdpclatency.png/
http://img220.imageshack.us/f/madvrdpclatency.png/

Till date I havent found out, what is madVR doing differently from EVR CP that these DPC latencies occur. My CPU is i7 980x where madVR setup runs on 5-7 percent (0.56)

Pluto

[moliko]

[QUOTE=6233638;1493608]What is your CPU usage like? Usually that is the cause of audio problems.

Test Video
1080p@6279Kbps, 23,976 fps
160 Kbps, 48,0KHz,2 channels, AAC (LC)

nearest neighbor all
trade of quality all marked

average cpu -- 20% - 30%


chroma softcubic soft 50
luma up spline 4tab
luma down spline 4tab
trade quality all unmarked

average cpu -- 15% - 25%
gpu load 24%


the bad sound only comes with madvr

i test the video with 4 cores
my system must be handle this clip
i do not have problems with dropped frames or something
even the samsung Demo Oceanic Life runs without problems except the damn sound

my soundcard is an creative x-fi fatality

http://img17.imageshack.us/i/evrt.jpg/
http://img215.imageshack.us/i/madvrt.jpg/

another one
http://img576.imageshack.us/i/anotheronef.jpg/

[pankov]

Plutotype,
I've just checked it and the latest version of madVR is not giving me high DPC latency ... it's either fixed or it could be that I've recently changed my video card to NVIDIA ... if I have more time tomorrow I'll test with the old version of madVR, which I used when I had the problem a few months ago, and report

[ikarad]

Hmmmm... You had one glitch per second, right? That would make some sense because the Ctrl+J OSD is updated exactly once per second.



I try today with other movies and I have lots of glitches even without ctrl+j function activated.

Your new exclusive mode function doesn't work with my computer since madvr 0.51.

Is it possible to correct this problem?

With madvr 0.5 it works very well.

[moliko]

@6233638

here another system pic in was i change my cpu back to X2

http://img215.imageshack.us/i/67136505.jpg/

as X2 he is still able to play 1080p vids with spline

[leeperry]

I have reported DPC issues with madVR a 2 months ago.
running XPSP3/8800GS and a USB audio transport(Firestone Bravo), I only get spikes when going FSE<>FSW. They're not red, and they don't make audio glitches: http://www.pixelz.fr/2/e/9/6b76c95c6eeef42ecea20c146a0b6t.jpg (http://www.pixelz.fr/2/e/9/6b76c95c6eeef42ecea20c146a0b6.png)

Have you tried to lock the clock speeds of your CPU/GPU?

[Plutotype]

running XPSP3/8800GS and a USB audio transport(Firestone Bravo), I only get spikes when going FSE>FSW. They're not red, and they don't make audio glitches: http://www.pixelz.fr/2/e/9/6b76c95c6eeef42ecea20c146a0b6t.jpg (http://www.pixelz.fr/2/e/9/6b76c95c6eeef42ecea20c146a0b6.png)

Have you tried to lock the clock speeds of your CPU/GPU?
Hi Leepery,
Yes I have tried everything. Will try to swap the graphics for another model, because users Moliko and Pankov had also Sapphire graphics ( 5670/57xx ) and we all have experienced DPC latency spikes. Just an idea, dont want to discuss it here more.

Anyway, 0.56 rocks, yesterday watched 140min movie a at the end pressed ctrl-j: zero dropped frames and 1 dropped frame in 15hours. Nice.

[leeperry]

It used to be possible w/ <0.50 to switch refresh rates on the fly, but now all I get is a black screen and PotPlayer's frozen. This can't be good for Reclock users :o

[dansrfe]

Feature request: Reset OSD statistics with hotkey during playback. :)

Thanks madshi!

[namaiki]

Feature request: Reset OSD statistics with hotkey during playback. :)

Thanks madshi!

There's the reset with Ctrl + R

[dansrfe]

There's the reset with Ctrl + R

Awesome, thanks!

[jmone]

It used to be possible w/ <0.50 to switch refresh rates on the fly, but now all I get is a black screen and PotPlayer's frozen. This can't be good for Reclock users :o

Well at least it is not just me! I'm using the "old path" at present and really looking foward to the addition of refresh rate changing as a part of madVR!

[madshi]

For me 0.56 is better than 0.54. Smooth playback with 8+ pre-rendered frames using CoreAVC in soft and CUDA modes. Thanks, madshi!
With the latest build everything works the best ever, and I mean it. Thanks a ton!
Glad to hear that!

Does "Checking" "use managed upload textures (XP only)" better to use in windows XP?
Makes no difference to quality. Might impact speed slightly.

The only options that impact quality are those in the "trade quality for performance" section (leave them all unchecked, if you want max quality) and of course the scaling algorithms (choose the algorithm which is most pleasing to your eyes, there's no "best" algorithm).

All other options do not affect image quality. Unless you have tearing or non-smooth playback in windowed mode. In that case I would suggest to use the exclusive mode.

It only seems to have been since building this new system that I've been having problems. I wonder if the drivers are different for the newer cards, even if they are numbered the same. I do remember right around the time the 500 series launched, that I tried to install the driver for one (normally I don't bother to select my GPU on the Nvidia site as they're supposed to be universal) and it said it was incompatible.

I have experimented with the flush settings and it seems that anything that stops the present error from happening (pretty much sleep/loop on "after copy to backbuffer") then causes my previous issue of the buffers gradually dropping to 0, or near-enough and having constant dropped frames. No combination seems to fix both.

As mentioned before, I only get these present errors when the refresh rate and video framerate are not matched 1:1.

24p film at 24Hz is fine, 25p film downclocked to 24Hz is fine, 25p video at 50Hz or 30p at 60Hz is not. Unfortunately I don't think my display accepts 25Hz or 30Hz.
Very weird. My 9400 seems to work best with all flushes disabled and 10 pre-presented frames. With these settings I have about 2-3 pretty much invisible glitches per movie when playing back 25p film on 50Hz. I've no idea why your 570 makes such problems. You're the only madVR user who seems to have these "present errors". Maybe reinstalling the driver version or trying a different driver version might be worth a try?

A while ago you mentioned that the old rendering path was scaling chroma directly from the source resolution to the target resolution in a single step, and that the new render path you were working on would scale chroma to the luma resolution, and then scale chroma & luma to your target resolution using the selected luma algorithm on both.

Has this been implemented?
Not yet, but it will come very soon now.

It's interesting that this problem seems to be fixed by one of the last two madvr versions ( 0.55 or 0.56 ). I can set that setting to 2560x1600 and play high fps videos without large amounts of dropped frames.
:)

Any possibilty of getting CPU (GPU???) usage in the CTRL+J OSD?
Not anytime soon. Too much other important stuff to do.

using: mpc-hc, ffdshow, lavsplitter, madvr
i got problems with sounds playback of aac (lc) & pcm (big/unsigned) in mov and mp4 container
the sound is scratchy and many clicks and pops
when i change back to evr renderer i have a clear sound

And now i have scratchy sound in some mkv with ac3 too, i got this terrible sound only in combination with madvr.
How about FLAC? DTS? Does it apply to all audio codecs and containers or only to some? Have you tried different splitters and/or different decoders? Maybe a different audio renderer?

In theory madVR does not do anything to audio.

madshi, the disable desktop composition setting (obviously when the PC has Aero enabled), drops it to 60i, rather than 96i. During the black flash Powerstrip is disabled somehow - in a similar fashion to when you install a program and it all goes dark for the prompt question.
Weird!

My question is when I launch MPC-HC from within XBMC, it comes up in full screen, but not exclusive mode. If I bring up the settings window for one of the filters and then close it, it will switch to exclusive mode and all is well. Not sure if this is a madvr issue or MPC-HC?
If you create a debug log for me I can have a look at why it doesn't go to exclusive mode. Try to keep the log short, please, as in: Delete any old logs. Then start MPC-HC so that it doesn't go exclusive (although it should). Let it play for 5 seconds in windowed mode. Then exit MPC-HC. Then zip and upload the log somewhere.

Some remarks about vc-1 stream in m2ts container.

.56, W7, 5750, 11.3, MPC-HC, Aero on

8 prepresented frames
Cyberlink 10 decoder - madvr reports unknown fps, very smooth, no dropping frames
MPC HC decoder - madvr reports 23.976, very smooth, no dropping frames
WMV decoder - madvr reports 23.976, many dropped and delayed frames

4 prepresented frames
Cyberlink 10 decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
MPC HC decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
WMV decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames

16 prepresented frames
Cyberlink 10 decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
MPC HC decoder - very smooth, no dropping frames
WMV decoder - many dropped and delayed frames
The reason why it's smooth with 4 frames is that the decoder queue is not fully utilized in that case by the presentation queue. Once the frames are presented, they're out of madVR's hands. With only 4 pre-presented frames, 4 frames in the decoder queue are always still under madVR's control. Which allows madVR to "repair" any faulty timestamps.

The *real* cause of the problem is a faulty splitter, though! Choose a good splitter, please, and you'll have perfectly smooth VC-1 playback with the MS VC-1 decoder + madVR with 8 or 16 pre-presented frames, too.

I have never found the WMV Decoder to have smooth playback with madVR and use libavcodec.
Then you've probably never used a correctly working splitter yet. Try playing back VC-1 MKVs created by eac3to by using the Haali Splitter. That gives me perfectly fluid results with the MS VC-1 decoder and madVR. When muxing MKVs by using eac3to, eac3to is responsible for creating the timestamps. If you then use a splitter which simply outputs the timestamps as they are without fiddling around with them, you should get perfectly smooth results.

I try today with other movies and I have lots of glitches even without ctrl+j function activated.

Your new exclusive mode function doesn't work with my computer since madvr 0.51.

Is it possible to correct this problem?

With madvr 0.5 it works very well.
Do your eyes tell you that v0.56 is less smooth than v0.50? You can't trust the v0.50 statistics because v0.50 was not able to detect glitches at all.

I have reported DPC issues with madVR a 2 months ago. Some sound chips can handle the sound also if DPC peaks are occuring - without any sound glitches. This is the case of my motherboards Realtek ALC889. But my main soundcard, RME Babyface does not like DPC latencies at all - I hear occasional dropouts ( not like yours ) when mpc-hc with madVR is running.
The only possible reason I can imagine why madVR could cause DPC latency issues is that I'm reading the VSync scanlines in a thread which runs at very high priority. Maybe this thread interrupts the audio drivers too much sometimes, depending on how they're written. I could probably lower the thread priority, but then eventually video playback could become less smooth (not sure).

It used to be possible w/ <0.50 to switch refresh rates on the fly, but now all I get is a black screen and PotPlayer's frozen. This can't be good for Reclock users :o
This seems to be caused by the VSync scanline reading stopping to work sometimes. I've done some changes in that regard in newer versions which actually improve things in certain situations. But it seems things got worse in other situations. I'm playing around with using a different scanline reading API now. Maybe that will fix things completely. Or not...

[ikarad]

Do your eyes tell you that v0.56 is less smooth than v0.50? You can't trust the v0.50 statistics because v0.50 was not able to detect glitches at all.
.

My eyes, not (maybe a little difference with 0.5 more smooth).
But even if madvr0.5 doesn't work as you said, there is a problem with the new exclusive fullscreen mode, because it's not normal that there are lots of glitches, isn't it?

My GPU and my CPU are powerfull (quad core Q6600 @3ghz and geforce gtx280 and 2go DDR2 800mhz)

[nevcairiel]

Then you've probably never used a correctly working splitter yet. Try playing back VC-1 MKVs created by eac3to by using the Haali Splitter. That gives me perfectly fluid results with the MS VC-1 decoder and madVR. When muxing MKVs by using eac3to, eac3to is responsible for creating the timestamps. If you then use a splitter which simply outputs the timestamps as they are without fiddling around with them, you should get perfectly smooth results.

Sadly decoders are not created equal, and some decoders want the timestamps in another order, its never simple with VC-1. :(
It is true however that the MS DMO decoder should work with Haali splitter, unless the file is messed up.

Blatant self-ad: The current version of LAV Splitter should work in 95% of the cases with all "major" decoders* with VC-1 in both MPEG-TS and MKV. The only time it fails is with interlaced VC-1 playing in LAV CUVID (with Frame Doubling enabled), and thats fixed for the next version. :)

* Tested: MPC-HC Decoder, ffdshow, MS DMO Decoder (Win7 Version), Cyberlink, ArcSoft, LAV CUVID.

[Thunderbolt8]

hm for some reason Im coulndnt get the lav splitter to work with the ms dmo decoder (xp, ati card). the mpc internal decoder has always been loaded (and if I unticked those, no decoder at all was used and i didnt get any picture)

[leeperry]

This seems to be caused by the VSync scanline reading stopping to work sometimes. I've done some changes in that regard in newer versions which actually improve things in certain situations. But it seems things got worse in other situations. I'm playing around with using a different scanline reading API now. Maybe that will fix things completely. Or not...
OK, cool! I know it's "bad" to switch on the fly...but I've gotten used to it, and now all it does is force me to reach for my keyboard and kill PotP :o

Sadly decoders are not created equal, and some decoders want the timestamps in another order, its never simple with VC-1.
yeah, I'm also having problems w/ WMA :(

I use VST plugins in ffdshow audio, and I've got a VST plugin that gives garbage when I feed it WMA...the sound stutters like hell. All other audio formats are fine. You can always count on m$ to ***** it up :D

[nlnl]

madshi
Thanks for the reply!
With only 4 pre-presented frames, 4 frames in the decoder queue are always still under madVR's control. Which allows madVR to "repair" any faulty timestamps.
So 4 pre-presented frames is the best choice?



Blatant self-ad: The current version of LAV Splitter should work in 95% of the cases with all "major" decoders* with VC-1 in both MPEG-TS and MKV. The only time it fails is with interlaced VC-1 playing in LAV CUVID (with Frame Doubling enabled), and thats fixed for the next version. :)

nevcairiel

Thanks for the info! And does LAV Splitter play mono LPCM streams in m2ts :)?

[nevcairiel]

Thanks for the info! And does LAV Splitter play mono LPCM streams in m2ts :)?

Probably does. I don't know if i have tested one yet. Don't see why it wouldn't.
But lets not spam madshi's thread, if you have any questions, you can find the appropriate thread in my signature.

[moliko]

@madshi

i tried all other audio renderers in mpc-hc
change to haali media splitter
i dont´t use flac

what i found out is that the problem comes when i play 1080p vids
i test a movie in 720p & 1080p with the same DTS sound

720p minimal sound problems (do not disturb watching)
1080p big sound problems (you can´t watch the movie)

[sneaker_ger]

You're the only madVR user who seems to have these "present errors".

I think he's talking about "presentation glitches", which several of us (including me) suffer from.

(9200M GS, 270.51)

[fps]

Finally I had time to try out the new FSE and watched two full movies.
For the first one I used 4 pre rendered frames, 8 or more for the second one.

I just use recklock in bitstreaming mode, so I used to get about 1 frame drop every 40 minutes with the old FSE mode.
However with 4 pre rendered frames I had about 7 dropped frames and 2 presentation glitches at the end of the movie.
Sometimes it even seemed to me that there was non smooth playback though none of the counters incremented.

Increasing the pre rendered frames to 8 made things worse, I had about 20 frame drops and 8 presentation glitches.
I then tried to use 16 pre rendered frames but according to the OSD the counter never increases above 6-7 pre rendered frames.

Don't know if it's expected, but the pre rendered frames seem to have a big impact at the frame drops/glitches happening when seeking in a file.
The less pre rendered frames the better it seems.
With 4 pre rendered frames I only get a few drops and hardly ever any glitches. With 8/16 pre rendered frames I get about 10 drops and 3-5 glitches with every seek (numbers increase the more pre rendered frames).

Both movies were 1080p/23.976 with the display at 23.976, too.
I used the default flush settings flush/flush & wait (sleep)/don't flush/don't flush for both files. My config is as shown in the signature.

Last but not least a big thanks for all your hard work! :)

[mr.duck]

Requesting option to show seekbar in windowed mode when you mouse over the bottom 20% of the video frame.

Had an idea to reduce power consumption. madVR could open a dummy DXVA output. That way GPU and memory clocks do not go full throttle. For my 5750, that would mean 400/900MHz GPU/MEM at 0.95v GPU voltage compared to 700/1150MHz GPU/MEM at 1.1v GPU voltage. This should impact power consumption significantly. What do you think?

[madshi]

But even if madvr0.5 doesn't work as you said, there is a problem with the new exclusive fullscreen mode, because it's not normal that there are lots of glitches, isn't it?

My GPU and my CPU are powerfull (quad core Q6600 @3ghz and geforce gtx280 and 2go DDR2 800mhz)
You can try again with v0.57, maybe it improves things, although I doubt it. Please understand that the presentation glitches reported by madVR are glitches that happen somewhere in either Direct3D or in the GPU drivers. They're not happening inside of madVR. I'm trying my best to behave so that these glitches don't appear. But in the end they're not *my* fault, as far as I currently know.

FWIW, it seems that running high refresh rates (96Hz in your case, IIRC) is kinda difficult for the new exclusive mode rendering path. I don't really know why it seems to be so difficult, I didn't expect that, but as I said, the problems seem to happen outside of madVR. All madVR can do is to try keep all queues full. If the queues are full and still glitches occur, it's probably not my fault. If you set all flush settings to "don't flush" all queues are probably full in your case, aren't they? The flushes are a hack, they shouldn't even be necessary at all. But it seems that Direct3D and/or the GPU drivers need all the help they can get...

I wish I had more control than I have. Both Direct3D and the GPU drivers don't expose as much control as they could. Which means that I have to live with the APIs as they are. As I said earlier, maybe with DX11 I could achieve glitch free playback with high refresh rates, because DX11 has some extra features that could help. But I'm not planning to do DX11 anytime soon. So for now you'll have to live with what you got.

Sadly decoders are not created equal, and some decoders want the timestamps in another order, its never simple with VC-1. :(
It is true however that the MS DMO decoder should work with Haali splitter, unless the file is messed up.

Blatant self-ad: The current version of LAV Splitter should work in 95% of the cases with all "major" decoders* with VC-1 in both MPEG-TS and MKV. The only time it fails is with interlaced VC-1 playing in LAV CUVID (with Frame Doubling enabled), and thats fixed for the next version. :)
Yeah, I would have mentioned your splitter as a "good" one, too, but I haven't personally tested VC-1 with the latest version of your splitter yet, so I can't say for sure. With Haali I know that the timestamps at least are "perfect", in combination with the MS VC-1 decoder and madVR.

OK, cool!
Didn't work out, unfortunately. However, ... (see below)

So 4 pre-presented frames is the best choice?
No. The best choice is to use a properly working splitter. If you do that, the number of pre-presented frames has nothing to do anymore with which VC-1 decoder you are using.

what i found out is that the problem comes when i play 1080p vids
i test a movie in 720p & 1080p with the same DTS sound

720p minimal sound problems (do not disturb watching)
1080p big sound problems (you can´t watch the movie)
That does sound like your CPU might be too slow? I don't really know why you should get audio glitches then, though. I would rather expect video to stutter. Which audio hardware are you using? Have you tried searching for newer drivers?

I think he's talking about "presentation glitches", which several of us (including me) suffer from.
No, IIRC he has some real "errors" (not frame drops/glitches) if he doesn't flush after presentation.

Finally I had time to try out the new FSE and watched two full movies.
For the first one I used 4 pre rendered frames, 8 or more for the second one.

I just use recklock in bitstreaming mode, so I used to get about 1 frame drop every 40 minutes with the old FSE mode.
However with 4 pre rendered frames I had about 7 dropped frames and 2 presentation glitches at the end of the movie.
Sometimes it even seemed to me that there was non smooth playback though none of the counters incremented.

Increasing the pre rendered frames to 8 made things worse, I had about 20 frame drops and 8 presentation glitches.
I then tried to use 16 pre rendered frames but according to the OSD the counter never increases above 10 pre rendered frames.

Don't know if it's expected, but the pre rendered frames seem to have a big impact at the frame drops/glitches happening when seeking in a file.
The less pre rendered frames the better it seems.
With 4 pre rendered frames I only get a few drops and hardly ever any glitches. With 8/16 pre rendered frames I get about 10 drops and 3-5 glitches with every seek (numbers increase the more pre rendered frames).

Both movies were 1080p/23.976 with the display at 23.976, too.
I used the default flush settings flush/flush & wait (sleep)/don't flush/don't flush for both files. My config is as shown in the signature.
Doesn't sound too good. Please try without any flushes. Does that work better?

Requesting option to show seekbar in windowed mode when you mouse over the bottom 20% of the video frame.

Had an idea to reduce power consumption. madVR could open a dummy DXVA output. That way GPU and memory clocks do not go full throttle. For my 5750, that would mean 400/900MHz GPU/MEM at 0.95v GPU voltage compared to 700/1150MHz GPU/MEM at 1.1v GPU voltage. This should impact power consumption significantly. What do you think?
There are better/easier ways to control GPU power, but I don't have time for that at the moment. The seekbar was requested before, may come in some future version.

[madshi]

madVR v0.57 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* added (simple) automatic display mode changer
* added slightly modified exclusive presentation path for win7 and newer OSs
* if decoder doesn't tell the source framerate, madVR searches upstream
* if DScaler IVTC Mod is in the graph, madVR considers 29.970 to be 23.976
* if source file name contains framerate token, that overwrites DirectShow info
* added hack to stop Direct3D from messing up refresh rates
* added batch file to restore default settings
* fixed: in XP setting the number of pre-presented frames to 1 didn't work
* fixed: secondary display attached to a receiver wasn't handled correctly
Two important things:

(1) I've added a (simple, somewhat stupid) first version of an automatic display mode changer. It works a bit different to the MPC-HC changer: You simply tell madVR which display modes you want to use and madVR will automatically pick the best one for any content you throw at it. This is not the final version of the display mode changer. There will be an improved version some time later (not too soon). This first version is stupid in that way that it only switches display modes right before the start of movie playback and never double checks whether the real movie playback actually matches the chosen display mode or not.

The display mode changer applies to both windowed and exclusive mode. The new display mode will stay active even after the media player exits. That's not a bug, but by design.

You can manually overwrite the movie framerate by adding a refresh rate token into the file name. E.g. if you name a file "movie 24p.mkv" then madVR will switch to a display mode that is 24p friendly, even if the decoder reports a different movie framerate. Supported tokens are 23p, 24p, 25p, 29p, 30p, 50p, 59p, 60p. And the same in interlaced (e.g. 59i). You can also write the token backwards. E.g. you can write "1080p24" and madVR will accept that, too.

(2) I've modified the presentation logic of the new exclusive mode rendering path a bit for Windows 7. I don't know for sure if it will work better or worse than before. Please give it a try and let me know. The new behaviour is always "on" in Windows 7 for now. So you'll have to compare to v0.56 to be able to say whether the new behaviour is an improvement or a regression. This change only applies to Windows 7, obviously.

P.S: Thanks to SamuriHL for providing the initial version of the "restore default settings" batch file.

[mr.duck]

There are better/easier ways to control GPU power, but I don't have time for that at the moment. The seekbar was requested before, may come in some future version.

Ya, you said to ask again about the seekbar at a later date. I probably should have waited a bit longer.

[sneaker_ger]

No, IIRC he has some real "errors" (not frame drops/glitches) if he doesn't flush after presentation.
As an update: just watching some
1080p25 content at 50Hz. After approximately 50 minutes of playback I'm at almost 1000 presentation glitches and while it may not be all of them causing stuttering, there has been a LOT of it throughout.

No dropped or delayed frames though. Looks like I only get smooth playback when the source framerate and refresh rate are at 1:1.

Maybe it's a misunderstanding?


Had an idea to reduce power consumption. madVR could open a dummy DXVA output. That way GPU and memory clocks do not go full throttle. For my 5750, that would mean 400/900MHz GPU/MEM at 0.95v GPU voltage compared to 700/1150MHz GPU/MEM at 1.1v GPU voltage. This should impact power consumption significantly. What do you think?

I'm currently using TriXX (http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133783), which let's me keep the clocks from going over 200/300. Voltage control doesn't work for my card though, but maybe for yours?

[SamuriHL]

P.S: Thanks to SamuriHL for providing the initial version of the "restore default settings" batch file.

Thanks, madshi! I'm sure people will appreciate having that in there.

[6233638]

Very weird. My 9400 seems to work best with all flushes disabled and 10 pre-presented frames. With these settings I have about 2-3 pretty much invisible glitches per movie when playing back 25p film on 50Hz. I've no idea why your 570 makes such problems. You're the only madVR user who seems to have these "present errors". Maybe reinstalling the driver version or trying a different driver version might be worth a try?I've been through a couple of drivers now without any change. Hopefully Nvidia will release an updated one soon.

Someone else did complain about the same issues I was having a while back, but it certainly doesn't seem common.

The *real* cause of the problem is a faulty splitter, though! Choose a good splitter, please, and you'll have perfectly smooth VC-1 playback with the MS VC-1 decoder + madVR with 8 or 16 pre-presented frames, too.Hm, strange. I have always used Haali's media splitter and any MKVs I have are made with eac3to. (though I usually just play .m2ts off an iso now as it's quicker)

I have not used the WMV decoder for some time now though as a result. Perhaps whatever was causing the problems I had has been fixed now.


I will try to have a look at 0.57 tonight.

[iSeries]

Madshi, thanks very much for your continued work on this. Before I test 0.57 I'd just like to say 0.56 was perfect for me. Watched a 1.5 hour film last night (23.976fps at 23.976hz, all flushes disabled, 8 pre-presented frames, on an ATI 4550). 0 dropped frames, 0 delayed frames, 0 presentation glitches, 0 anything bad at all, 100% smoothness! Will give 0.57 a go tonight.

[sneaker_ger]

Tested 0.57 on 9200M Gs (Win 7): no change regarding the glitches.

[SamuriHL]

@6233638

The new nVidia WHQL driver was just released, so, give that a try.

[nevcairiel]

Hm, strange. I have always used Haali's media splitter and any MKVs I have are made with eac3to. (though I usually just play .m2ts off an iso now as it's quicker)

I have not used the WMV decoder for some time now though as a result. Perhaps whatever was causing the problems I had has been fixed now.

The only decoders that Haali works out of the box with are the MS DMO decoder and the MPC-HC decoder (and possibly ffdshow), all others need special timestamp handling.