madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[SamuriHL]

I tried that but still got high rendering times.

Tried.....what, exactly? There's a LOT of settings that can impact render times. You can even try turning off dynamic tone mapping by going into the trade quality for performance settings and checking the compromise on luminance channel option.

[SamuriHL]

What's the deal with HDR10+ and MKVs? I just tried playing back a file and madVR appears to support it, but is it actually just playing back regular, non-dynamic HDR? Or does HDR10+ simply work because it's not a proprietary mess like Dolby Vision?

EDIT: It must be the latter, since LG OLED displays apparently don't support HDR10+.

AFAIK madvr doesn't support the HDR10+ metadata. Nor does LG OLED support HDR10+ metadata even if you use passthrough mode. If you did have a TV that supported it, passthrough might work but I honestly have no idea.

[tp4tissue]

Wrong again. Old Spyders are fine to be used for gamma auto cal with the JVC Autocal software. How correct they are for color isn’t relevant in that case.

That's impossible, if the filters go, that means the rgb balance is off.

Even if you get a relative line out of it, it could not be counted on as accurate.

Spyder 4s and 5s, go in the trash. that's that.

Especially for modern panels, they can't even measure low enough without reporting a giant dead zone near black. Then passed through argyll, you get gamut clipping. This happens on a brand NEW spyder 5, spyder 4 would be even worse.

The only reason the spyder probes worked "AT ALL" was because through its native software, they simply pasted artificial dark readings onto the end of the measure. The probe itself can not actually make those measurements.

This is why it fails to read dark colors completely in dispcal but not in their own software.

[huhn]

he only said for JVC auto cal.
do you know how meter aware this software is?
or how high the ANSI CR of these devices is if the auto software even cares about low light corrections at all...

[ryrynz]

Lol, projectors are never going to be 1,000 nits let alone 10,000 nits.

Tone-mapping will never go away.

Never? Don't the best laser projectors hit 20,000 lumens already? Wouldn't that reach approx 1000 nits on a 100" screen?

Not many people with a decent projector set up are going to use madVR, it's going just just become even more niche than it already is.
Most users of madVR are not projector users.. Doubt most of them are even using the tone-mapping as well.

[huhn]

laws of thermodynamics and the inverse-square law.

that's why a projector can reach 5000 and more nits and is often not even 120 nits. you can use a very very small throw distance to reach very high numbers.

there were even "PJ" chip which reach 10000 nits on a about 4 CM². with the commend it's really really bright (nope).

but they are very power inefficient so if a PJ currently reaches let's say 100 nits a PJ reaching 1000 would for the same size need at least 10 X power.
a PJ is already actively cooled so i leave the rest here.

[Perenista]

How do I fix green video issues that often appear when we fast-forward the content? The image also gets fuzzy. My system is new: i5 11400 using onboard video, Windows 11-64 bit. MB is MSI Z590A-Pro. 16 GB of RAM, DDR-4.

I haven't installed any codec packs. Only MPC-BE and then later madVR.

Also using the latest drivers for everything.

Could this be some sort of hardware acceleration problem? Monitor is Acer XV280K-B, 4K@60 Hz.

[Klaus1189]

Green is likely a Hardware acceleration issue in GPU driver. Try to disable in MPC-BE internal filters for this videofile only. Use mediainfo to check what video codec is used for your file. MediaInfo is also integrated in MPC-BE.

[Perenista]

Green is likely a Hardware acceleration issue in GPU driver. Try to disable in MPC-BE internal filters for this videofile only. Use mediainfo to check what video codec is used for your file. MediaInfo is also integrated in MPC-BE.MEDIAINFO from the MP4 affected:

https://pastebin.com/xeF0Kw6p

MPC-BE 1.5.8.6302
Filters currently loaded:
- Default DirectSound Device
- madVR Renderer
- Audio Switcher
- MPC Video Decoder
- MPC Audio Decoder
- MPC MP4/MOV Source

What I am seeing when I click MPC VIDEO DECODER:

https://i.postimg.cc/nrbBwkvq/FI.png

Should I install "MEGA" from here?

https://codecguide.com/download_kl.htm

This is a recent PC and has been formatted less than a week ago.

Only MPC-BE and madVR were installed so far.

[Klaus1189]

Do not install codec packs. Just disable „H.264“ on the left in MPC Video Decoder

[flossy_cake]

I seem to find the "bilateral old" chroma upscaling algorithm produces by far the cleanest result with a poor quality 4:2:0 SD source.

I suspect it might be an issue with chroma alignment of some SD sources where the chroma sample position was incorrectly encoded in the source, eg. certain seasons of Family Guy. In these cases the bilateral filter seems to work wonders and smooths it out beautifully without any visible blurring, aliasing or bleeding.

Curious to know how it works.

[tp4tissue]

Never? Don't the best laser projectors hit 20,000 lumens already? Wouldn't that reach approx 1000 nits on a 100" screen?


The absolute best projectors in theaters are hitting 100nits. That's Dolby Vision super duper $Millions laser projector.

The average theater, ~50nits.

From 100 to 1000 ? not going to happen, Even if it did, it'd be worthless because contrast ratio would be trash.

[tp4tissue]

he only said for JVC auto cal.
do you know how meter aware this software is?
or how high the ANSI CR of these devices is if the auto software even cares about low light corrections at all...

These probes are software agnostic. The spyder 4 and 5 dark read problem is INHERENT in the hardware of the probe.

The CR of most projectors might be terribad enough to be in the range of the probe, but that is not uniformly the case, especially with dynamic iris.

[aleksanderdev]

Hi! Running rtx 3080 and intel 12900k.

I'm a n00b at madvr and settings.
Is there anyone with similar setup that could recommend settings to use?

I will be playing on a 1080p projector until i can upgrade to Epson TW9400.
So I need hdr colormapping and upscale/enhancing 1080p videos.
I prefer sharp details over more soft blur.

[SamuriHL]

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-madvr-envy-video-processor-owners-thread%E2%80%9D.3173897/post-61286239

For those who keep asking if madvr on PC is dead....an answer from the man himself.

[LordX2]

Nice to see that he isn't giving up on the PC!

[Manni]

The absolute best projectors in theaters are hitting 100nits. That's Dolby Vision super duper $Millions laser projector.

The average theater, ~50nits.

From 100 to 1000 ? not going to happen, Even if it did, it'd be worthless because contrast ratio would be trash.

It would be really nice if you stopped making definitive statements as if you knew what you’re talking about. My JVC RS2000 does over 200nits in high lamp (new bulb), with the P3 filter on. The native contrast ratio is over 30,000:1 at that brightness level. There are many, many projectors (especially laser ones) that produce much higher output.

These probes are software agnostic. The spyder 4 and 5 dark read problem is INHERENT in the hardware of the probe.

The CR of most projectors might be terribad enough to be in the range of the probe, but that is not uniformly the case, especially with dynamic iris.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about. Agreed, the spyders can be a crap shot for Color, and they don’t age well, but their ability to correct gamma remains mostly unaffected. This is because the JVC Autocal software does up to 33 point reads per Color (R, G, B). Because it’s entirely relative for gamma calibration, the absolute Color accuracy of the meter is of no importance.

However, you do need a better meter, preferably a Spectro, to correct the RGB balance at 100%, which will automatically correct the rest of the greyscale. Given that the spectro can’t correct gamma easily, a poor Spyder is a great complement, even if it can’t be used on its own for anything but gamma calibration with the JVC Autocal.

Regarding black levels, you can use some of the Spyder models facing the projector Lens, getting up to 5,000 nits for 100% white, which means that the “black” readings are well within the sensitivity range of these meters, which isn’t always the case when used facing the screen or in a flat panel.

FYI the spyders are not only meters reporting “fake” dark readings, but it’s up to the software to either report trash, or a fixed “fake” value that looks more correct. The i1display Pro, which is a much better meter than the Spyders, also does this. The value near black isn’t the same depending on the software used.

Again, you have a limited knowledge in calibration and I can’t spend my time correcting you from posting misinformation, so please do some research before posting so much incorrect information. Thanks!

[mclingo]

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/official-madvr-envy-video-processor-owners-thread%E2%80%9D.3173897/post-61286239

For those who keep asking if madvr on PC is dead....an answer from the man himself.

Personally i'm not convinced, if he told everyone PC is dead then he might lose a lot of his testing base.

Of course i'd like this to be true but sadly these are just words until we see some actual action,. or at least an official announcement, he must have some sort of rough timeframe for v1.0 but he cant even give us that.

Again though, he owes us nothing and we've had years of MADVR FOC, so if this sounds ungrateful its not.

[ajp_anton]

I'm having problems with a HEVC 2160p 10bit stream. Using LAV to decode, it outputs P010 in all cases below.

DXVA native works with EVR, but "kind of" freezes madVR. MPC-HC continues to play, but with a black screen. Exiting closes the window but the program stays on and needs to be killed via task manager.

Software works with both renderers, except the CPU is just a hair too slow.
DXVA copyback works with both renderers, but drops over half of the frames.

Skylake i3-6100T, HD 530, Windows 10.

(Works fine on my laptop's i7-1185G7, W10.)

Is this a known problem and do workarounds exist?

[Perenista]

What could account for random white dots in the video while viewing only H.265 content (H.264 is OK)? I thought this was my i5 11400 CPU having some sort of driver issue (in my case it's the onboard video being used, so no GPU), but if it's only affecting H.265 content, then something else is happening. I am using madVR and MPC-BE.

Oddly I activated HDR from Windows and the physical buttons of this 4K monitor and this only happened after I did both. But a dead pixel test from a website didn't reveal (so far) anything wrong. I suspect further filters need to be installed or something about D3D or anything else needs to be changed for MPC Video Decoder. Perhaps I should download LAV?

Note: check these posts, they are probably about the same issue I had:

https://www.reddit.com/r/htpc/comments/dx2opz/help_mpcbe_getting_flashing_white_artifacts/

http://forum.doom9.net/showpost.php?p=1842960&postcount=51024

** https://www.avsforum.com/threads/madvr-hdr-passthrough-isnt-working.2880609/page-13

** says:
Randomly appearing white dots could be a bad HDMI cable, or a GPU or VRAM hardware issue (or overheating).

[clsid]

@ajp_anton
Try with D3D11 hardware decoding instead of DXVA2 Native.

Otherwise, use DXVA2 Copyback and in LAV Video Decoder disable all 10/16-bit output formats. That reduced the amount of data that needs to be copied to GPU memory. This can solve performance issues (on Intel) that are caused by bandwidth bottlenecks.

[Perenista]

Without even reading the last post I decided to try LAV. It fixed the problem right away. Before: old settings: MPC-BE 1.5.8.6302 - Filters currently loaded:
- Default DirectSound Device
- madVR Renderer
- Audio Switcher
- MPC Video Decoder
- MPC Audio Decoder
- MPC MP4/MOV Source

This is what I was getting: https://i.postimg.cc/N01S7z4R/BUG.jpg (random white dots) - An issue that never happened before.

https://i.postimg.cc/Ssk5ZfT3/MPC-VIDEO-DECODER.png (MPC video decoder settings)

All of this in a small 1080p H.265 video. So I downloaded LAV from here: https://www.videohelp.com/software/LAV-Filters

Once installed, I configured LAV to be the default filter for everything (we need to add as an external filter in MPC-BE), and have set in MPC-BE the "merit" high enough to use it. madVR still being loaded, along with:

MPC-BE 1.5.8.6302 - Filters currently loaded:
- Default DirectSound Device
- madVR Renderer
- Audio Switcher
- LAV Video Decoder
- MPC Audio Decoder
- MPC MP4/MOV Source

No more white specks. What I don't understand is why after restarting Windows 2 times and loading an insignificant small file (not CPU or GPU demanding) I still saw the dots. Unless said bottleneck lasts far more than a few minutes after it happens for the first time.

All of this indicates that even with a modern CPU and its onboard video (yes, there is no GPU here at this moment) you need to do further changes to prevent something like this from happening. Probably there was some overload due to HDR being used, something I never done for so long since I bought this monitor.

[Klaus1189]

I never saw such white little dots. Try another HDMI Cable, preferrable a short one.

[clsid]

My reply was for Anton.

White dot artifacts are not related to decoder or renderer! Usually an issue with cable to monitor not being good enough. Since you enabled HDR mode, the GPU has to output more data through the cable.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gpu+white+dot+artifacts+cable

[tp4tissue]

Wrong Garbage


You're talking about on off contrast. , I'm referring to Ansi contrast.

Your point is irrelevant. The numbers I'm quoting is from dolby themselves. their ultimate projector does 100nits.

Sure scale that down it could be brighter, I'm only quoting a data point. It's neither an assumption nor a broad stroke.

JVC autocal is worthless, it doesn't matter how many points it reads. The reason is because it makes assumptions on linearity, while the degradation of the probe's reading/ response is non-linear. The native gamma response of the projector is also non-linear over time. Correcting the rgb balance at 100% does NOT fix the rest of the line.

You can say it's "better" in relative terms, but it's still junk, because it's being multiplied by 0 as the filters are gone.

The spyder can not be relied upon for any calibration purpose where low reads are necessary, and it certainly can't be used once aged.

I don't know where you're pulling your information from, it's full of misinterpretations and half truths. I also don't understand why you insist upon perpetuating misinformation.

Spyder4s and 5s cause gamut clipping WHEN BRAND NEW.. what good are they when they're so terrible out of the box. Their entire software suite is a chest of cheats to make up for how terrible their device is.

[Perenista]

My reply was for Anton.

White dot artifacts are not related to decoder or renderer! Usually an issue with cable to monitor not being good enough. Since you enabled HDR mode, the GPU has to output more data through the cable.

https://www.google.com/search?q=gpu+white+dot+artifacts+cableThe minute I turn on hardware acceleration from here, for HEVC:

https://i.postimg.cc/nrNJnwWF/PROB.jpg

It's the exact moment the white dots reappear, and this in a small 1080p file. I did this checking after turning LAV off (removing from external filters from MPC-BE) and using MPC Video decoder back again.

What can account for white dots in the image only when HW acceleration is enabled? Also, please note HDR is completely OFF, from Windows 11 and also the physical buttons of this monitor.

If I turn HW acc off the image is 100% fine. MEDIAINFO from the video: https://pastebin.com/KBzuViup

I never saw such white little dots. Try another HDMI Cable, preferrable a short one.The white dots are very subtle, but they are there. They can pollute the entire image or only a few appear. I don't think this is hardware related in my case. It has to be some Windows 11, driver or player wrongly configured.

The first sign of issue was H.264 that had to be disabled from MPC Video Decoder. Now HEVC. What does that tell you?

If I put any GPU here every one of those issues would be gone, for good? I replaced the PC and even with the integrated graphics 4K content almost reaches 100% from "GPU" resources when the file is being played fullscreen. I guess I underestimated how much we need a GPU, not just a CPU, for that.

P.S. Same issue from another user:

https://arstechnica.com/civis/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1195703

[Manni]

You're talking about on off contrast. , I'm referring to Ansi contrast.

Your point is irrelevant. The numbers I'm quoting is from dolby themselves. their ultimate projector does 100nits.

Sure scale that down it could be brighter, I'm only quoting a data point. It's neither an assumption nor a broad stroke.

JVC autocal is worthless, it doesn't matter how many points it reads. The reason is because it makes assumptions on linearity, while the degradation of the probe's reading/ response is non-linear. The native gamma response of the projector is also non-linear over time. Correcting the rgb balance at 100% does NOT fix the rest of the line.

You can say it's "better" in relative terms, but it's still junk, because it's being multiplied by 0 as the filters are gone.

The spyder can not be relied upon for any calibration purpose where low reads are necessary, and it certainly can't be used once aged.

I don't know where you're pulling your information from, it's full of misinterpretations and half truths. I also don't understand why you insist upon perpetuating misinformation.

Spyder4s and 5s cause gamut clipping WHEN BRAND NEW.. what good are they when they're so terrible out of the box. Their entire software suite is a chest of cheats to make up for how terrible their device is.

I was hoping you'd do a bit of research before replying, but clearly you still believe you are actually knowledgeable about calibration in general and the JVC Autocal specifically.

Okay.

I work in the film industry. FYI the Dolby Cinema standard is 108 nits for peak brightness (that's what they get with two Christie 4K laser projectors), not 100nits. It's also entirely irrelevant to consumer content as it's using a different grade to what we get on UHD Bluray or UHD TV, so let's forget about it for this discussion.

ANSI contrast is pointless for film content, it's an extreme case that's only relevant for business projectors displaying Excel spreadsheets. On/off contrast is a lot more useful, because contrast only goes down from there. If you want to look at contrast beyond that that would be relevant to film content, then look at lower ADL contrast, from 1% to 10% (that's where most film content lies) maybe up to 25-30% max for extremely bright content.

Anything above that (such as ANSI, which is 50% ADL) is mostly irrelevant for film content. There is no film content at 50% ADL, which is what ANSI measures. Even the Art of Flight (snowboarding documentary, so the brightest possible picture you could think of) tops at something like 32% ADL. The only interest in ANSI contrast is that it gives you the other end of the scale. So knowing on/off contrast and ANSI contrast, you know the best and the worst contrast the display is capable of, but you have to know what to do with these measurements in order to interpret them for film content. On/off is essential on fade to black (which is present in film content) and is crucial to get better ADL contrast in the 1%-10% range, where most of the actual content for the vast majority of movies/video content lie.

I don't think you're interested in learning anything, but if you are this is one of the best threads on the subject: http://projectiondream.com/en/movie-brightness-adl-contrast-measurements/

The other issue with ANSI constrast is how difficult it is to measure it if you don't know how to do it, as the room has a huge impact on it, contrary to on/off contrast (provided there is no ambient light).

Regarding the JVC Autocal, I have thousands of hours of experience with it. This is the last thread I created on the subject: https://discuss.avscience.com/index.php?topic=1850.0 it has more than 100,000 views. I have stopped contributing to it because I am not using Autocal as much since JVC finally gave us profile off with the filter, which allows to create large 3D LUTs without posterization or banding from the native, uncorrected wide gamut. So the thread isn't up to date (quite a few things happened since), but it is a great piece of software.

You are still entirely missing the point about the spyders (I've never used the Datacolor software suite, so I can't comment on that, I use JVC Autocal, Colorspace Pro and Calman Ultimate, I have many spyders 4/5/X, a BasiCColor Discus, a Spectracal C6 and an i1pro 2).

If you are incompetent enough to use the Spyders for gamut work without checking them first against a reference meter (preferably a spectro), you can do lots of bad things with them. You can clip the gamut, you can also lose 10-15% brightness due to overcorrection of the RGB balance at 100% white. Before the JVC Autocal started supporting the i1pro/i1pro2, I rejected ALL the Spyder 5 I received (I think I tested five of them). They were all rubbish for color work and it was a real pain to correct them before we found out about the correction matrix in the JVC Autocal settings (more on this below).

Now that JVC Autocal supports the i1pro2 or its cheaper clones (which should only be used for color unless you're prepared to zoom your screen down and use a piece of cardboard or screen material closer to the lens if you can't move the PJ closer to the screen), the color accuracy of the Spyder is 100% irrelevant if you only use it for gamma. You can even use them for color correction if you have access to a reference meter because the JVC Autocal allows you to enter a correction matrix in its settings, so any Spyder can do color and gamma and be just as accurate as the i1pro (or a reference spectro if you have access to one) provided the filters are not too degraded, which takes at least a few years if you store the Spyder properly (peli-case with dessicant).

Finally, you are also entirely missing the point I made about the way these meters are used with projectors. The Spyder 4 and 5 are used with JVC Autocal FACING THE LENS. You set them up so that 100% white is around 5,000nits. So the "black" or near black measures well within the limits of the meter and you can measure up to 33 point for each RGB color very accurately. The Spyder X is to be used facing the screen, which means that for some it might not give results as good as a Spyder 5 or 4 facing the lens, which is fine as you can use almost any Spyder with any software version using unofficial .dlls (see link below).

The JVC Autocal is in fact using a small internal LUT and is the best built-in calibration tool on any consumer projector (when used properly, which clearly isn't the way you've used it). You can use it with unofficially supported meters such as the i1display Pro (a much better low cost meter than the Spyders, far more accurate OOTB at least for bulb LCOS) or even the Klein K10a if you want to (or any meter supported by Colourspace, which means you can use probe matching and use a Jeti as reference without having to manually enter the correction matrix in the JVC Autocal settings). See https://www.avsforum.com/threads/using-alternative-meters-for-jvc-autocal-software.3169373/page-59#post-61289806 for more information about that.

Do you really think that the best pro calibrators would be using the JVC Autocal with a matrix corrected Spyder (if they don't want to or are not aware they can use better unofficially supported meters with it) if the results were not good, when they usually have a K10a profiled to a Jeti or CR spectro or better to check results over 1,000 points? I happen to share information privately with a few of them, and I can tell you you are badly mistaken. It's calibrators who calibrate a JVC without using the JVC Autocal first (when there is no external VP / LUT box available) who show their incompetence. You simply can't get optimal performance out of a JVC without doing a JVC Autocal first, unless you're using high bright / profile off with a 3D LUT. Otherwise, you are throwing away contrast and brightness, showing your incompetence, because that contrast and brightness can't be retrieved without correcting the factory tables. The only way to do that is to use the JVC Autocal, before any manual calibration.

Sure, it doesn't replace a proper calibration with an external LUT box / VP and a large 3D LUT, but given the price of the software (free), it does a great job to get the user 90% there when they don't want to invest $$$$$ in an Envy or a Lumagen (especially given that the DTM of the recent native 4K JVCs -- NX and NZ models -- is also very good, unlike any other consumer projector on the market).

I don't have the time to educate you. I was hoping you'd want to do a bit of research and learn about this instead of posting misinformation, but sadly it doesn't seem to be the case.

I won't reply to any further post from you on the subject, unless you acknowledge that you were posting misinformation. If you want to keep posting that JVC projectors are awful, that JVC Autocal is a piece of junk and that Spyder meters are useless with it, that's your right. Hopefully people will be able to make an informed judgement about your claims when they read this thread.

It would be better though if you realised that you're not as knowledgeable on the subject as you think your are, because you could do some research, get JVC Autocal to work properly and stop posting nonsense about it, the JVC projectors or the Spyders.

Anyway, apologies everyone about this long and mostly off-topic post, and Happy Holiday! :)

[clsid]

If I put any GPU here every one of those issues would be gone, for good? I replaced the PC and even with the integrated graphics 4K content almost reaches 100% from "GPU" resources when the file is being played fullscreen. I guess I underestimated how much we need a GPU, not just a CPU, for that.You already have a GPU. Just not a powerful one. So consider using MPC Video Renderer instead of madVR.

Disable "Contrast Enhancement" in the Intel driver settings. That is known to cause a whole variety of issues, including artifacts and stuttering.

[tp4tissue]

Egotistical rant


Again, I've said NONE of the things you assume I've said.

I said JVC autocal is worthless, WITH a spyder 5 or spyder x.

This is in fact the case for the majority of users who WILL NOT have a spectro or any of the knowledge base to do your "Cardboard" trick, or LUT corrections.

I never said, we can't use JVC autocal. Everything I've mentioned is focused on why the S5/x will not work for almost all end-users, and their rapid degredation (relative). Therefore, why buy them.


The other half of this conversation is just You misinterpreting , talking down to people, and being an ass. What with your shallow republican gotcha's oh look dolby said 108 nits instead of 100. All the while their own promo trailer has the engineer quoting 100nits. But that's besides the point.

[ajp_anton]

@ajp_anton
Try with D3D11 hardware decoding instead of DXVA2 Native.

Otherwise, use DXVA2 Copyback and in LAV Video Decoder disable all 10/16-bit output formats. That reduced the amount of data that needs to be copied to GPU memory. This can solve performance issues (on Intel) that are caused by bandwidth bottlenecks.

Thanks, totally forgot about the D3D11 option, and it works. However CPU utilization is about 50% and there's quite a lot of stuttering/jitter (no dropped frames though). DXVA scaling doesn't seem to work.

Also tried MPCVR, and the jitter situation is a little better, but still a lot. DXVA2 also "works" here, but it drops half of the frames.

Forcing copyback to 8bit still drops a lot of frames.

So I went back to DXVA2 with EVR-CP. Almost no CPU utilization, and less jitter than anything else. It's for my mom's computer, so "it should just work" is of higher priority than quality.

[Manni]

Again, I've said NONE of the things you assume I've said.

I said JVC autocal is worthless, WITH a spyder 5 or spyder x.

This is in fact the case for the majority of users who WILL NOT have a spectro or any of the knowledge base to do your "Cardboard" trick, or LUT corrections.

I never said, we can't use JVC autocal. Everything I've mentioned is focused on why the S5/x will not work for almost all end-users, and their rapid degredation (relative). Therefore, why buy them.


The other half of this conversation is just You misinterpreting , talking down to people, and being an ass. What with your shallow republican gotcha's oh look dolby said 108 nits instead of 100. All the while their own promo trailer has the engineer quoting 100nits. But that's besides the point.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't force them to drink…

As I said, happy holiday :)

[huhn]

you are aware what a spyder x and what a i1d3 cost today?
there is a very good reason to get a spyder x.

and yes i said i don't understand the existence(or something similar noone cares) of spyder 4 and older and the reason is at the time a colormunki was still a thing.

should i point out that there are ways to get correction without a spectrometer. the inet is a huge place.

[tp4tissue]

Disagree on spyderX,

It shouldn't have ever been released as it's plainly a terrible product.

They've had 5 years since spyder5 to fix the glaring inadequacy of its dark reads, and they've failed. It boggles the mind how this could've happened. They even kept the deteriorating filters. All they had to do was copy the xrite, it's right there, there's nothing technologically special about it, all made with off the shelf sensor/parts, no exotic components.

The i1dispro / i1 studio is worth it over the spyX. EVEN at the +$50 inflated price. Because the damn thing just works.

Going forward, displays get better, oleds get cheaper, VA get even better contrast, you're gonna need something other than SpyX, it makes no sense to buy twice.

The Xrite probes are overpriced, I agree, but they're worth every penny as a hobbyist, because they work on every panel in the house.

[flossy_cake]

The Xrite probes are overpriced, I agree, but they're worth every penny as a hobbyist, because they work on every panel in the house.

I use an i1d2 and it's crap. It's only useful for doing 10p gamma to an eyeballed white point, and reads different colours off different displays.

[LordX2]

Just messing with some tiny 'would be nice' things in terms of clock deviation.

I bit-stream my audio to my Denon amp, so I will always have a discrepancy between video and audio clocks if I am reading up correctly.

The Nvidia driver I use gets the video hz pretty darn close to perfect at 2.97596hz, but my clock deviation is still usually at around 0.001xx (around 50 mins between frame drops). So that must be the audio being differently clocked?

Is there anything I can do to help it? E.g. which sound output device I select in MPC-HC for example. (currently it is set to 'system default') Or am I just 'locked in' at whatever it is?

LAV Audio output is the current audio processor.

[tp4tissue]

I use an i1d2 and it's crap. It's only useful for doing 10p gamma to an eyeballed white point, and reads different colours off different displays.

that doesn't make sense, of course different displays have different color.

Are you talking about matching white points between displays ? that's not always possible because the light engines have different spectral distributions.

[flossy_cake]

The Nvidia driver I use gets the video hz pretty darn close to perfect at 2.97596hz, but my clock deviation is still usually at around 0.001xx (around 50 mins between frame drops). So that must be the audio being differently clocked?

Is there anything I can do to help it? E.g. which sound output device I select in MPC-HC for example. (currently it is set to 'system default') Or am I just 'locked in' at whatever it is?



One option is to use CRU to slightly increase the monitor refresh until the "1 frame drop every" readout is minimised. Frame drop = increase the refresh, frame repeat = decrease the refresh. The "clock deviation" stat is not the one to target, apparently.

But I couldn't get a good result, because in CRU I could only adjust with a granularity of +/-0.003hz which isn't small enough -- an error of 0.003 is 1 lost frame every 5.5 minutes ((1/0.003)/60 = 5.5). Even if we could adjust by +/-0.001hz that's still 1 frame every 16 minutes which isn't precise enough.

But in practice you may get lucky and it bumping it +0.003 might just happen to snap you to a value that happens to get it a bit closer. Ambient temperature seems to slightly affect the clocks as well.

And CRU was causing a problem for me where where Windows would sometimes think I'd connected a new monitor at the next boot, which caused all the per-monitor settings in MadVR's settings to become lost (which includes the auto res switching -- a dealbreaker for me).

In the end I just left the refresh rates at their defaults. My ctrl+j reports 1 frame drop every 1-3 hours, but it depends on the file. On some files it reports 1 drop every 5 minutes and then after about 10 minutes of playing the file it gradually increases to 1 hour and sometimes goes back down to 5 minutes. In practice I've never actually observed dropped frames (unless they are baked into the source, which many youtube videos have, even the very high quality demo reels) so unless you are actually being aggravated by dropped frames in known good sources I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Another option is to use ReClock to sync playback to the display rate, but it has to resample the audio which can result in audio artefacts.

edit: I just saw MadVR has its own custom refresh timings feature. But I'm not sure if it can achieve tighter granularity than 0.001hz.

[LordX2]

I have tried MadVR's custom resolution before (just tried it again).

The Nvidia Driver keeps rejecting the custom resolutions that MadVR tries. Even with 'resetting' the driver.

I can live with 1 frame drop every 50 or so minutes - was just trying to 'perfect' the setup at this point.

[LordX2]

Does MadVR install for all users, or only the one the installer is run on?

If I create a new profile, do I get a clean slate with MadVR?

[flossy_cake]

Does MadVR install for all users, or only the one the installer is run on? If I create a new profile, do I get a clean slate with MadVR?

I'm not sure as mine was installed from k-lite codec pack installer. I suppose you could check by simply signing in as a different Windows user. If not, you can always create custom profiles in madvr's settings dialog.

[Siso]

Recently I'm testing build 112b, does anyone know how the folks at caps-a-holic measure the nits of each hdr to sdr screenshot comparison? For example Braveheart it says 150 nits in their site, does it mean I have to put 150 nits in target peak nits in madvr, to be able to watch it properly?

[brazen1]

Recently I'm testing build 112b, does anyone know how the folks at caps-a-holic measure the nits of each hdr to sdr screenshot comparison? For example Braveheart it says 150 nits in their site, does it mean I have to put 150 nits in target peak nits in madvr, to be able to watch it properly?

Afaik, Braveheart (1995) UHD is a 1000 nit remaster and to watch it properly requires at least a 1000 nit display.

[cagali]

Hello I want to ask some questions about "Custom Modes"

Some info about my setup:

1. Win10, the whole machine is quite old, more than 5 years old.

2. Default there is only 1680x1050 60hz in nvidia control panel (and other lower res), no 59hz to choose from.

3. However in madvr control, it shows there is a 59hz mode and is ACTIVE. :(

4. Still, the machine plays videos alright using potplayer.
However the debug OSD reports "1 frame repeats every 1 minutes" (press ctrl+j),
which from many other replies in this thread, it is very bad?

5. Is it possible to proceed setting up "Custom Modes" to achieve fewer drop/repeat frames?
I worry the driver is too old for madvr to support.

(It dated as 2016, however it is already the latest driver available from nvidia/microsoft)
(Actually I have read the tutorial http://madvr.com/crt/CustomResTutorial.html
and somehow able to get 1 slightly better optimization, "1 frame repeats every 15 minutes".
However, in the debug OSD it still reports the same poor "1 frame repeats every 1 minutes".

And there were times I can get the "60 hz" mode active in madvr control, but it didnt stay.
After I closed the player, or played another video, it switched back to the "59 hz" mode.)

:thanks:

https://i.imgur.com/CiLjWyS.jpeg
https://i.imgur.com/3R7DJ5N.jpg

[flossy_cake]

Default there is only 1680x1050 60hz in nvidia control panel (and other lower res), no 59hz to choose from. However in madvr control, it shows there is a 59hz mode and is ACTIVE. :(

I think NVCP is wrong and reports 59.94hz as 60hz in its drop down list. At least that is happening with my GTX 1070, even after I create a custom 59.94 mode in NVCP or CRU, it still only shows 60hz in NVCP.

Whereas Windows own display settings shows both a 59hz mode and a 60hz mode, which you should also see.

However the debug OSD reports "1 frame repeats every 1 minutes" (press ctrl+j),
which from many other replies in this thread, it is very bad?

Depends how bothered you are by dropped frames. Personally I would be bothered by that.

If you are bothered then create a custom 59.9xx mode in NVCP, or edit the existing 59hz mode in MadVR, so that xx minimises the "1 frame drop/repeat" value in ctrl+j. If it's a "repeat" then reduce xx, else increase it.

Then to control the automatic switching: MadVR settings > devices > active monitor > display modes tab > list all display modes madVR may switch to > type in "1680x1050p59, 1680x1050p60", and MadVR should automatically select the appropriate one according to the file, and restore the previous mode according to the 2 checkbox rules above it.

But as mentioned previously there is a problem where you can't adjust the refresh rate with a greater precision than around +/- 0.003hz which is +/- 1 frame every 5 minutes. So in your case you currently have 1 repeat frame every 1 minute, so you'd want to go -0.003hz, but then you would be at 1 dropped frame every 4 minutes*, which is better but still not great. Perhaps you can play with some of the other timing parameters like porch and sync width to try and get a smaller adjustment, but I didn't have much luck with this personally, YMMV.

* edit -- I got that wrong because you're starting out with 59.953 then subtracting 0.003 = 59.950 , which is 0.01 off 59.94, and 0.01 error = 1 repeat every 1/0.01 = 100 seconds. Compared to 59.953 which is 1 repeat every 76 seconds, so the granularity of adjustment at 59.953 is 100-76 = 24 seconds. It's only at 59.940 that +/- 0.003 gives 1 repeat/drop every 5.5 mins (1/0.003 = 333.33 / 60 = 5.5 minutes). But the problem remains -- once you get close to 59.94hz there still isnt enough clock granularity to ensure we can get drop/repeat times in the order of hours.

[cagali]

I think NVCP is wrong and reports 59.94hz as 60hz in its drop down list. At least that is happening with my GTX 1070, even after I create a custom 59.94 mode in NVCP or CRU, it still only shows 60hz in NVCP.

Whereas Windows own display settings shows both a 59hz mode and a 60hz mode, which you should also see.



Depends how bothered you are by dropped frames. Personally I would be bothered by that.

If you are bothered then create a custom 59.9xx mode in NVCP, or edit the existing 59hz mode in MadVR, so that xx minimises the "1 frame drop/repeat" value in ctrl+j. If it's a "repeat" then reduce xx, else increase it.

Then to control the automatic switching: MadVR settings > devices > active monitor > display modes tab > list all display modes madVR may switch to > type in "1680x1050p59, 1680x1050p60", and MadVR should automatically select the appropriate one according to the file, and restore the previous mode according to the 2 checkbox rules above it.

But as mentioned previously there is a problem where you can't adjust the refresh rate with a greater precision than around +/- 0.003hz which is +/- 1 frame every 5 minutes. So in your case you currently have 1 repeat frame every 1 minute, so you'd want to go -0.003hz, but then you would be at 1 dropped frame every 4 minutes, which is better but still not great. Perhaps you can play with some of the other timing parameters like porch and sync width to try and get a smaller adjustment, but I didn't have much luck with this personally, YMMV.

Thanks for the reply.
I have tried the following steps after reading your reply.

1. Use CRU to change the refresh rate of the monitor to 59.94 hz, the original is 59.954 hz
(saved, and restarted the pc, the setting is still there in CRU so I think it worked?)

2. Modify the "custom timings" in madvr.
After I changed them, reset GPU,
I play a 59.94 fps video (downloaded from youtube) and check from the debug OSD if the settings work.

I tried to reach some extreme refresh rates, like 59.7x and 61.xx hz, both settings "worked",
and the drop / repeat become "1 repeat frame every X seconds". :)

However when I get close to 59.94 hz, the "display" value always show something like 59.9540, 59.9539.
I have tried several "pixel clocks" around 146.22 mhz, all ended up the same.
I have a feeling that my setup does not accept fine tune. :(

One "Successful" settings with extreme values. At least "display" shows a value that is different from 59.954.
https://i.imgur.com/BUPrR7p.jpg

One "Failed" settings when I try to set 59.94 hz. In madvr it shows 59.933.
https://i.imgur.com/9CZoajQ.jpg

[Klaus1189]

And you only need 23, 24, 50, 59, 60.
No need for 25, 29, 30.

Why?

Interlaced sources should be deinterlaced to each field (half frame). madVR will pick 25, 29, 30 over 50, 59, 60.
Also the order does not help to prefer the double ones, only to leave them out.

[cagali]

And you only need 23, 24, 50, 59, 60.
No need for 25, 29, 30.

Why?

Interlaced sources should be deinterlaced to each field (half frame). madVR will pick 25, 29, 30 over 50, 59, 60.
Also the order does not help to prefer the double ones, only to leave them out.

Those missing refresh rates are auto-generated by madvr.
No method to delete them anyway.

I am just interested in 59/60. :)

[Klaus1189]

Ok, I never had a monitor with only 60 Hz support.

[cagali]

Ok, I never had a monitor with only 60 Hz support.

Probably it was just too long ago and you have forgotten. :)
This setup is old, more than 5 years old.

[Klaus1189]

No I had monitor/TV models, like this LG:
https://www.lg.com/de/products/documents/M2362D-PC.pdf
Then a Samsung:
https://www.samsung.com/de/support/model/LT27A950EX/EN/

Then I went to small TVs for my monitor which ALSO all had 23,24,50,59,60, AND also 25,29,30, but I disabled these last.

I had quite special displays. But I don‘t want them back. Now I have a way better „monitor“ which I really like a lot.