madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Trigunflame]

Edit: Changed a considerable amount of text because of different circumstances.
Note to any Nazi mods that may be lurking: The material contained in any Video/Screenshot linked in this post are attributable to "Elephants Dream"; a Creative Commons, Freely Available Work.
The specific video used in these examples is available Freely Here (http://osaddict.com/files/elephantsdream-720-h264-st-aac.mov). Other variations are made available at the same website Here (http://orange.blender.org).

Ok, I've came across two different issues.

1) Similar to the last reported issues, but this seems to occur Very rarely with most files - specifically the mp4 container (maybe, 1 in 20 plays?)
However, a file in particular; in this case "elephantsdream-720-h264-st-aac.mov", consistently freezes immediately upon loading with MadVR.

As demonstrated here, it will freeze when utilizing the mp4 container as well, but significantly less often; where as the mov container appears to freeze Every time.
Also note the increased CPU usage, soaring upwards to ~13-14% (although, oddly enough, this effect isn't consistently reproducible).
Under normal circumstances, this file plays back at roughly ~1-2%.
http://a.imagehost.org/0623/3_32.png

Here is the log of the Freeze/Crash when using the .MP4 container:
http://www.multiupload.com/QXD273JWGK

Here is the log of the Freeze/Crash when using the .MOV container:
http://www.multiupload.com/7HQ6Z3TIT9

2) A Green tinted line across "Some" (not all) Videos.
Note: To get this video to playback "somewhat reliably", I have demuxed & remuxed into an mp4.
Not sure if it happened in any previous version. Perhaps you are aware of this already?
http://i.imagehost.org/0882/2_56.png

OS: Win7 x64 ultimate
Aero: Enabled
CPU: i7 920
GPU: 8800gts 640mb g80 x2 (SLI)
Drivers: NV 257.15
Resolution/Refresh Rate: 1680x1050 59/60hz
Player: MPC-HC latest svn (r2010)
Codec: FFDSHOW-Tryouts latest svn (r3472)
Splitters/Filters: Internal MPC-HC MP4/MOV Splitter > FFDSHOW video (ffmpeg-mt @ 8 threads) > FFDSHOW audio > MADVR > DirectSound

[racerxnet]

Madshi,

Thanks for the update. It works with the Nvidia decoder and is very smooth with default settings.

Win XP SP3
ATI 3870
1366 x 768
C2 E8200

MAK :thanks:

[EpsilonX]

Madshi...
Thank you for this great renderer...
No problem so far except for the known "Macrovision Error"... :D
I'm curious about the conversion to RGB...
What "method" did MadVR use to determine between BT.601 or BT.709..?
If its resolution, what is the maximum source resolution for BT.601..?
720 pixels..?
I've seen some video with 848/852 pixels width, will MadVR use BT.709 on these files..?
Thanx in advance...

[leeperry]

What "method" did MadVR use to determine between BT.601 or BT.709
if x<1025 and/or y<577 then it's SD, otherwise it'd HD. 848/852 is HD.

damn, I still can't believe how smooth the new beta is...you are unstoppable :devil:

extremely eager to see exclusive mode at this point :p

[EpsilonX]

if x<1025 and/or y<577 then it's SD, otherwise it'd HD. 848/852 is HD.

damn, I still can't believe how smooth the new beta is...you are unstoppable :devil:

extremely eager to see exclusive mode at this point :p

By 848/852 pixels, I meant width (x)... :D
Sorry for not being clear... :D
If so then it won't be a problem...
Though I've seen a resized encode from HD to 960 pixels width...
Only 1-2 files though... :rolleyes:
Thank you...

[leeperry]

encode from HD to 960 pixels width
It's the encoder's duty to use ColorMatrix() and convert to BT.601 when encoding HD to 960x540...you can always put this in ffdshow's avisynth scripting:
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601",clamp=0,opt=0)

[Razoola]

016 has solved my issue with 015, thanks for the great work madshi... Thats the fastest three madVR releases in history isnt it, 014, 015 and 016.

Given all the new options now in madVR would it be possible to add text to the end of each madVR default setting '(default)'?

[leeperry]

it might also clarify things once and for all to call the two levels options "untouched levels" and "TV>PC levels conversion"...because I output 0-255 from ffdshow and have to choose "16-235" in mVR to keep the levels untouched, plus mVR takes it the opposite way from HR. This option begs for clarity IMHO.

[Hypernova]

After some testings, the best configuration for me is "flush & wait (loop)" for "after render steps" and "after last step" (ie. 1st and 2nd options)

Observation: I play around with the last three, and it doesn't matter much what I choose for those. Only the first two give me differences. It's clear that I need flushing, but I can't say clearly which. If one of the first two is "flush & wait (loop)", it's really hard to say what option is the best for the other, so I assumed that setting both to "flush & wait (loop)" would be best for my setup.

Info:
(1) ATi 3870 with 512mb ram
(2) Windows Server 2008 R2
(3) Aero on
(4) 2560x1600 + 60Hz (madVR stat say ~59.80).
(5) Single monitor setup.

Thanks for the new version madshi. Hopefully there'll be good news on subtitle pin..

[madshi]

Does "After backbuffer" mean, after the back buffer is flipped?
"After backbuffer" means after copying the final rendering result to the backbuffer.

I've changed noting, no reboot... and everything is working correctly now
No idea what was wrong, but glad to hear it's working now.

My first goal when testing was to find settings which did not give me any stuttering or dropped frames, and to use flushing whenever it didn't have a negative effect. I only used the OSD stats for minor tweaking after I already arrived at the conclusion that these were the best settings for my setup.
Ok, that's fine. However, flushing is not a good thing, if it can be avoided without negative side effects. Also the minor tweaking based on the OSD stats was probably not useful. So would you mind revisiting your results, by dialing down all flush options as much as you can without losing subjective smoothness? Your flush settings result in frame drops on my XPSP3 PC Radeon 3850 HTPC with 60Hz refresh rate, while my default flush settings work fine here.

My experience with VMR9 in MPC-HC is that using flushing w/ wait is a good thing (eliminates tearing and makes panning more stable and smooth).
Flushing is probably an unavoidable necessity, when using windowed mode. But still we should keep it at the minimum required to get smooth playback. Not everybody has a GTX 470. Flushing does harm overall rendering performance. With your GTX 470 you can probably do a lot of flushing without negative side effects, but not all people are so lucky.

Since "Wait (loop)" introduces no additional render/present delay, and doesn't seem to increase my CPU usage in any negative way, I prefer that over "Wait (sleep)" which gives me stuttering, which I just re-confirmed.
Ok, we definitely don't want stuttering. Do you have to use "loop" for both of your wait flushes?

For reference, I was also getting occasional stuttering with all flushing settings disabled.
Same with me.

I've been doing some more testing (with resizing as well) and those setting do seem to give me perfect smoothness and nice stable panning (no flickering lines on animation & no vibrating edges, which is something I've never gotten with madVR before). If you used these settings (or at least made them available) in future versions, it seems Fullscreen Exclusive mode may end up being somewhat pointless for this setup.
I'm happy to hear that it works that well for you. The reason why I'm trying to press you about experimenting even more with the flush settings is that I've still not given up hope that we can find some flush settings that work for everyone, so that I can remove the options from the settings dialog again.

All I know is that those appear to be the perfect Flush settings for a Fermi GPU on WinXP with a CRT monitor when using Reclock.
leeperry has a very similar setup (only exception being 8800GS instead of Fermi) and for him no flushes at all seem to work best... :( I was really hoping to find a "one for all" flush setup.

setting 'after render steps' to 'flush & wait (loop)' definitely speeds things up.
You mean "flush & wait (loop)" works better for you for "after render steps" than the default "flush" setting? In which way does it work better? Can you describe the improvement a bit more detailed, please?

In case you missed it: [...]

In case you ignored it without a sample: [...]
Thanks. But what is your HTPC setup? And especially: What is your decoder and splitter? On a quick check your sample plays fine for me. Whenever there are problems with specific video samples, I always need the decoder and splitter setup.

indeed "use managed upload textures" is required for me, if I disable it going FS>windowed hiccups a little bit(but no freezing).
How bad is the "hiccup" when not using the "use managed upload textures" option? The reason I'm asking is that I'd like to get rid of the option. I implemented it as a last resort if your freezing/crawling problem was still not fixed. If you only get a small hiccup now with v0.16, would you be ok with me removing that option again? The hiccup is not nice. But in return you get faster rendering times.

I currently got the 4 "flushing" options disabled, everything looks smooth so far!
Interesting! For me, if I disable all flushes on my XPSP3 3850 setup I get stuttering.

BTW, I run XP in "big fonts"
Bad idea IMHO. The XP "big fonts" option is strongly not-recommended. Using big fonts makes sense only in Vista or win7, but in XP this feature never worked reliably. I will not spend any time on making big fonts work in XP.

still a luck of the draw when seeking w/ Reclock, though.
I'm sad to hear that! Can you reproduce this (sometimes smooth playback, sometimes non-smooth playback after seeking) with the debug build? If so, can you please create a log for me, by doing this:

(1) start playback (it must be smooth) and wait 5 seconds
(2) seek until you get non-smooth playback
(3) let playback run non-smooth for 5 seconds
(4) DON'T seek another time and DON'T switch between windowed <-> FS mode
(5) quit the media player

The log only helps if (1) is smooth and after some seeking (2) isn't. (4) is important, so that I know that the end of the log shows the non-smooth situation.

1) Similar to the last reported issues, but this seems to occur Very rarely with most files - specifically the mp4 container (maybe, 1 in 20 plays?)
However, a file in particular; in this case "elephantsdream-720-h264-st-aac.mov", consistently freezes immediately upon loading with MadVR.
If I load this file, the "filters" content menu in MPC-HC is disabled for me and madVR is not used. Don't know which renderer is used instead. How can I get the filters menu active and madVR to be used with this clip?

As demonstrated here, it will freeze when utilizing the mp4 container as well, but significantly less often; where as the mov container appears to freeze Every time.
Which tool did you use to convert it to MP4?

2) A Green tinted line across "Some" (not all) Videos.
Seems to happen with Elephants dream for you, too? With which one? The MOV or MP4 one?

By 848/852 pixels, I meant width (x)... :D
Sorry for not being clear... :D
If so then it won't be a problem...
Though I've seen a resized encode from HD to 960 pixels width...
PAL anamorphic is 1024x576 and that's SD. So madVR considers all clips HD where width > 1024 or height > 576.

Given all the new options now in madVR would it be possible to add text to the end of each madVR default setting '(default)'?
Instead I'd like to remove most of the settings again. That will be possible only if we find common ground about how to setup these options, though.

[madshi]

it might also clarify things once and for all to call the two levels options "untouched levels" and "TV>PC levels conversion"...because I output 0-255 from ffdshow and have to choose "16-235" in mVR to keep the levels untouched, plus mVR takes it the opposite way from HR. This option begs for clarity IMHO.
I will not change anything about that until I redesign the settings dialog, which is planned for a future release.

After some testings, the best configuration for me is "flush & wait (loop)" for "after render steps" and "after last step" (ie. 1st and 2nd options)
In which way does it work better than "flush & wait (sleep)"? The "loop" option consumes serious amounts of CPU. So if the "sleep" option isn't working worse, that's what I'd recommend to use instead.

[midiboy]

Hi !

0.16 crashes the player (zoomplayer). I have attached the logfile to my post. 0.13 worked fine (except for some judder which does not happen with the Haali Renderer). I have not tried 0.14-0.15

Bye,
Alex

[Hypernova]

In which way does it work better than "flush & wait (sleep)"? The "loop" option consumes serious amounts of CPU. So if the "sleep" option isn't working worse, that's what I'd recommend to use instead.

In "all spline64", which I assumed a stress test, the loop is needed to get rid of stuttering. After further testing, I only need it in "after render steps". I can leave "after last step" to don't flush and it seems fine. However, if the choice exist, I think the loop for "after last step" work a little bit better, in the sense that it looks "smoother".

I tried changing chroma to softcubic100. In this setup, I don't need flush at all.

Info:
(1) ATi 3870 with 512mb ram
(2) Windows Server 2008 R2
(3) Aero on
(4) 2560x1600 + 60Hz (madVR stat say ~59.80).
(5) Single monitor setup.

[vucloutr]

BTW, I run XP in "big fonts" and I can't read the last option at the bottom: http://thumbnails29.imagebam.com/8341/aedf0483402641.gif (http://www.imagebam.com/image/aedf0483402641)
dunno if anybody told you yet but there a 5 options and you can see 3 and a half with big fonts.

http://h.imagehost.org/t/0046/shot-20100606T095227.jpg (http://h.imagehost.org/view/0046/shot-20100606T095227)

[leeperry]

leeperry has a very similar setup (only exception being 8800GS instead of Fermi) and for him no flushes at all seem to work best... :( I was really hoping to find a "one for all" flush setup.
well, I prefer avoiding flushing altogether...I might be imagining things but flushing seems to fight/confuse/lag against Reclock's timings. It seems to make mVR behave like Overlay..."no question asked, follow the damn timings already" :devil:
How bad is the "hiccup" when not using the "use managed upload textures" option? The reason I'm asking is that I'd like to get rid of the option. I implemented it as a last resort if your freezing/crawling problem was still not fixed. If you only get a small hiccup now with v0.16, would you be ok with me removing that option again? The hiccup is not nice. But in return you get faster rendering times.
Well, the hiccup is really not nice to look at...I'd very much like to keep the option if any possible please :o

This current config looks so amazing, I can't really believe how smooth it is atm :eek:

I've asked Kazuya to try my settings(he runs XP SP3/nvidia/same HC3100 pj as mine etc etc) and confirm whether I'm imagining things.
Bad idea IMHO. The XP "big fonts" option is strongly not-recommended. Using big fonts makes sense only in Vista or win7, but in XP this feature never worked reliably. I will not spend any time on making big fonts work in XP.
hehe, ok no biggy...well, please don't add any other option after this one...hopefully there's only 4 flushing options? hope I'm not already missing something.

Big fonts work fine in the apps I use...I also don't run a pagefile, I like to live dangerously :p
I will not change anything about that until I redesign the settings dialog, which is planned for a future release.
ok, but I guess the goal is to make mVR easier to use for newbies...this is not helping.

PS: oops there's a fifth flush option, it doesn't show up due to my big fonts...good thing it's disabled by default.

[madshi]

0.16 crashes the player (zoomplayer). I have attached the logfile to my post. 0.13 worked fine (except for some judder which does not happen with the Haali Renderer).
Which OS are you using? Which GPU? Display mode? Refresh rate? Aero on/off? When does the crash occur, right when starting the video playback, or after a couple of seconds, or when you do something special like switching between windowed/fullscreen? Does the crash occur with all videos or just with some? Which decoder/splitter are you using?

[namaiki]

1920x1080x60, 9600M GT (187.45), Windows 7 x64 (Aero on), MPC-HC, CoreAVC (software), VSFilter, Reclock (not with vsync correction).

My setup seems to hate 'flushing after present' a lot and also does not like 'flushing after back buffer'.

It seems I can have all flushes off or on. With all off, there is lag but this soon goes away.

With default flush settings is mostly fine (I would say I am satisfied and will be using them for now), except sometimes there is a little 'jump' when subtitles come on the screen (same with all combinations so far, so probably discount this).

(testing both 23.976 and 29.970 fps material)








leeperry, are you still using Reclock's own VSync correction?

[Grmpf]

Great new version madshi, even if 0.13 was *THE* biggest step for me (removing of the dreaded tearing). I found that your default flush options were good for me too and the "use managed upload textures (XP only)" had to stay off...

Intel Q9550 + ATi 4770 + JVC DLA HD100 (24.976/24.000/50.000/59.940hz) - single display
Win XP SP3 + ZoomPlayer + Haali Splitter + CoreAVC(H.264)/Win DMO(VC-1) + madVR + ReClock (VSync off)

One thing i wouldn't like to see is having flush(loop) as standard anywhere without the possibility to switch is to (sleep) because of the cpu eating... Beware, small rant coming: I need all the cpu power i got (my system is slightly overclocked) to decode VC-1 stuff + deinterlacing, because there is not one single good vc-1 decoder out there, ffmpeg is crap (does not work with interlaced content), the windows dmo is crap (single threaded), etc. and if you have to deinterlace using cpu power (no hardware deinterlacing with madvr) you get 80-95% use of one core while 3 cores are next to idle at ~5%... and no i do not want skip the interlaced content, because there are some great concerts on blu-ray out there which are interlaced vc-1/h.264, so there is no way around software deinterlacing imho. Because of that i would love to see madvr using as less cpu power as possible or have atleast the option for it.

Ohh and thank you madshi for the rapidly ongoing development of madvr !

[leeperry]

leeperry, are you still using Reclock's own VSync correction?
I've never used it whatsoever...but you're giving me ideas :devil:

[namaiki]

I've never used it whatsoever...but you're giving me ideas :devil:

nonoonoo

madshi; ajp_anton: Green bar at the top of the video on non mod-16 video seems to only occur if you are using MPC-HC's internal video decoder.

[Grafisher]

0.16 is hanging the player on startup. It looks like the playback is paused, and one of the CPU cores is fully occupied. I have about 50/50 chance that this happens when I open a video. I have attached a log from the debug version.

I use Zoom Player, Win7 x64, Aero on, ffdshow, default madVR settings, GTS 250.

[namaiki]

Grafisher: Did this occur with other MadVR builds? Does it occur if you are using MPC-HC? Also, what Forceware are you running?

[madshi]

0.16 is hanging the player on startup. It looks like the playback is paused, and one of the CPU cores is fully occupied. I have about 50/50 chance that this happens when I open a video. I have attached a log from the debug version.

I use Zoom Player, Win7 x64, Aero on, ffdshow, default madVR settings, GTS 250.
Attaching files to this forum is a BAD idea. It takes ages for the attachments to get approved. Better upload the log file elsewhere...

[namaiki]

madshi!!! I just got 1920x1080x60 for a 60fps video fully smooth on my 9600M GT!!! GPU usage according to GPU-z is ~90%

settings are: all flushes off except for

After render steps: flush and wait (sleep)
after last step: flush

this exact combination only produces fully smooth video for me for 60fps video

I swear, just then when I discovered it, my eyes nearly popped out of my head.

9600M GT (187.45), Windows 7 x64 (aero on), Reclock, MPC-HC, CoreAVC 2.0

Could others please try these settings and report findings:
After render steps: flush and wait (sleep)
after last step: flush

[madshi]

2) A Green tinted line across "Some" (not all) Videos.
Note: To get this video to playback "somewhat reliably", I have demuxed & remuxed into an mp4.
Not sure if it happened in any previous version. Perhaps you are aware of this already?
There appears to be a bug in ffmpeg-mt with the Elephants video. FWIW, the h264 bitstream reports 720x406, but the container says 720x405. CoreAVC and DixV decoders have no problem with this situation. But ffmpeg-mt doesn't start delivering frames to madVR in this situation on my XPSP3 dev PC. The strange thing is that ffmpeg-mt connects to madVR with 720x404, which is definitely wrong. madVR still accepts the connection. But then ffmpeg-mt keeps on asking whether madVR would be happy with 720x406, too. And madVR keeps on saying "yeah, sure". But ffmpeg-mt doesn't try to connect or to send frames, it just keeps asking the same question all over again. Neither CoreAVC nor DivX do that. I guess that the green lines also has to do with that somehow. My suggestion would be to try other decoders.

[Grafisher]

Grafisher: Did this occur with other MadVR builds? Does it occur if you are using MPC-HC? Also, what Forceware are you running?

No, this is the first version with which it occured (no idea about 0.14 and 0.15). I don't use MPC-HC. Forceware 197.45.

Attaching files to this forum is a BAD idea. It takes ages for the attachments to get approved. Better upload the log file elsewhere...

Thanks for the tip, here you go: http://flashlight.slad.cz/tmp/madVRlog1.zip

[madshi]

madshi!!! I just got 1920x1080x60 for a 60fps video fully smooth on my 9600M GT!!! GPU usage according to GPU-z is ~90%
Nice!

settings are: all flushes off except for

After render steps: flush and wait (sleep)
after last step: flush
Is it not fully smooth with the default flush settings?

No, this is the first version with which it occured (no idea about 0.14 and 0.15). I don't use MPC-HC. Forceware 197.45.
Your GPU is *painfully* slow with reporting scanline information. I'll have this worked around in the next build. But I'm not happy about NVidia drivers being so bad in this aspect.

[namaiki]

Is it not fully smooth with the default flush settings?


Laggy for the 60fps video, but otherwise is fine for 23.976 and 29.970 fps video.

[cyberlolo]

No problems here and everything's perfectly smooth with all flushes disabled. My setup:

CPU: i7
GPU: ATI Radeon HD4850
OS: Win7 Ultimate x64
Player: MPC-HC 1.3.1788.0. Tests made with KMP too.
Decoder: CoreAVC 2.0
Aero: on
Display resolution + refresh rate: 1920x1080@24/50/60 Hz (depending on source)
Single or multi monitor setup: I've got 2 monitors connected to the card, but only one is enabled at the same time, so single monitor.

Tested 23.976 fps (@24Hz) and 25 fps (@50Hz) content.

madshi, is this enough or do you want me to test your default settings with my setup? (I think if I don't have any problem with no flushes, I won't have them flushing, will I?)

[namaiki]

I think if I don't have any problem with no flushes, I won't have them flushing, will I?

Not true for my setup. Please try my settings. I'm still grinning like an idiot, inside and out. :D

[namaiki]

madshi, MadVR is running on my Intel GPU (no more power of 2 textures error). Is this an unintended side-effect of a recent change?

Also, I have a feeling that when the video is being displayed at actual size, the resizing algorithm doesn't run. (intel GPU lags when video is at 90% size, but not at 100%). Intel GPU doesn't lag on Bilinear. :D

[Neeto]

Great new version madshi, even if 0.13 was *THE* biggest step for me (removing of the dreaded tearing). I found that your default flush options were good for me too and the "use managed upload textures (XP only)" had to stay off...

Intel Q9550 + ATi 4770 + JVC DLA HD100 (24.976/24.000/50.000/59.940hz) - single display
Win XP SP3 + ZoomPlayer + Haali Splitter + CoreAVC(H.264)/Win DMO(VC-1) + madVR + ReClock (VSync off)

One thing i wouldn't like to see is having flush(loop) as standard anywhere without the possibility to switch is to (sleep) because of the cpu eating... Beware, small rant coming: I need all the cpu power i got (my system is slightly overclocked) to decode VC-1 stuff + deinterlacing, because there is not one single good vc-1 decoder out there, ffmpeg is crap (does not work with interlaced content), the windows dmo is crap (single threaded), etc. and if you have to deinterlace using cpu power (no hardware deinterlacing with madvr) you get 80-95% use of one core while 3 cores are next to idle at ~5%... and no i do not want skip the interlaced content, because there are some great concerts on blu-ray out there which are interlaced vc-1/h.264, so there is no way around software deinterlacing imho. Because of that i would love to see madvr using as less cpu power as possible or have atleast the option for it.

Ohh and thank you madshi for the rapidly ongoing development of madvr !

Grmpf -I'm interested to know what you're using for de-interlacing. I too have a similar problem as the best de-interlacer I've found is the ATI h/w de-interlacer which, as you point out, can't be used with madVR. Apparently the latest Nvidia cards have "just as good" hardware de-interlacing. It's such an issue for I'm prepared to sacrifice madVR to get hardware de-inerlacing back again, particularly on DVD content. Thanks neeto.

[makakam]

namaiki I've just tried your settings and I have to say they're pretty decent. When it comes to smoothness it may be only a bit better than the default settings but what is important rendering times are much lower for me with your settings.

[Trigunflame]

Which tool did you use to convert it to MP4?
YAMB/MP4Box. It was done just for the sake of showing that it (hang) would occur with either container. It was happening on my other video files as well. I'll try and see what I can do in regards to generating another log with another file (different from this known buggy movie).

The green line issue as previously mention, occurred only on that specific movie (both MP4 & MOV); so reading your explanation, we can disregard it I guess.

[madshi]

madshi, is this enough or do you want me to test your default settings with my setup? (I think if I don't have any problem with no flushes, I won't have them flushing, will I?)
Flushing can make things better (remove stuttering) and worse (reduce rendering resources). So it's hard to say which effect flushing will have for you. Would be nice if you could try the default flush settings. And maybe switch them around (like namaiki did), as a test.

madshi, MadVR is running on my Intel GPU (no more power of 2 textures error). Is this an unintended side-effect of a recent change?
See 0.14 changelog.

Also, I have a feeling that when the video is being displayed at actual size, the resizing algorithm doesn't run. (intel GPU lags when video is at 90% size, but not at 100%). Intel GPU doesn't lag on Bilinear. :D
If there's no need to resize, resizing algorithms are of course turned off. So does playback generally work on your Intel GPU? How smooth is it? Can you play 1080p24 content smoothly (without resizing, of course)?

namaiki I've just tried your settings and I have to say they're pretty decent. When it comes to smoothness it may be only a bit better than the default settings but what is important rendering times are much lower for me with your settings.
Please be cautious with judging things based on OSD rendering time numbers. These numbers are too low if you don't use "flush & wait" for "After last step".

[Grmpf]

Grmpf -I'm interested to know what you're using for de-interlacing. I too have a similar problem as the best de-interlacer I've found is the ATI h/w de-interlacer which, as you point out, can't be used with madVR. Apparently the latest Nvidia cards have "just as good" hardware de-interlacing. It's such an issue for I'm prepared to sacrifice madVR to get hardware de-inerlacing back again, particularly on DVD content. Thanks neeto.

I am using yadif (ffdshow raw video after coreavc/win dmo) with framrate doubling enabled, so 50i/60i will be 50p/60p. This works great for SD sources (you do deinterlace first and scale later, but for HD sources it eats a *LOT* of cpu power.

Sorry for the slightly offtopic madshi, if you tell us what kind of music you like i would like to send you some concert blu-ray - just to convince you that madVR 2.0 could do deinterlacing too ;-)

[namaiki]

If there's no need to resize, resizing algorithms are of course turned off. So does playback generally work on your Intel GPU? How smooth is it? Can you play 1080p24 content smoothly (without resizing, of course)?


Playing 1920x1080x24 on 1920x1080x60 (monitor only supports 60, even on nvidia :p), it seems that I need to switch the resizer to bilinear or it will still lag (MadVR reports both as 1920x1080).

On bilinear, or nearest neighbour, it seems perfectly smooth (even with resizing 720-> 1080). It is nearly smooth for Bilinear resize 1280x720x60 to 1920x1080x60. There isn't any artifacting or anything like that.

Intel GPU is a 4500MHD.

Windows 7 x64, MPC-HC, CoreAVC, Reclock, Aero on. With Aero off, performance isn't much better, but there is tearing.

[iSunrise]

Thanks for 0.16 madshi, it works beautifully again. I must say that you really made huge steps forward in terms of performance and smoothness with this version.

I tried various windowed mode tweaks with different material @1920x1200@60Hz (59,9512Hz to be exact) and it seems that I don´t need any flushes at all with my setup. It looks awesome, fluid and it´s _very_ fast.

The improvement is so obvious that with 0.13 I still had dropped frames with 60p/59.94fps content, no matter what, while with 0.16 I now can fully enjoy it without any dropped frames at all. In my case, 23.976, 24.000, 25.000, 29.970, 30.000, 50.000 and 60.000fps material now works _without_ judder, tearing or dropped frames! It´s really that smooth. Fantastic.

I tried "don´t flush" on everything first and after that I enabled the default settings again. At first, I thought that the default settings are better, but looking at various clips there´s absolutely no improvement I could detect. I tried various panning scenes, judder scenes (bars) and movies.

Some good judder/stutter test clips are here:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/streamers-network-media-players/1175436-files-judder-test.html

Specs:
(1) Geforce GTX 260-216 [Nvidia ForceWare Quadro 197.54]
(2) Windows Vista x64
(3) Aero on
(4) 1920x1200@60Hz
(5) KMPlayer or MPC-HC
(6) ffdshow video and audio decoder
(7) Haali splitter

[nlnl]

Mpc HC (Haali mkv spliter) + ATI 5400 (10.5) + Vista 32 + Aero on + 0.16 + monitor 1080p@23 (single)

Strange behavior when starting playback.
When playback is started first time for the file player sometime freezes.
The medicine is Cntl Alt Del and Esc => player unfreezes :).
When I start playing the same file second time everything is OK

Edit:
Sample http://narod.ru/disk/21572689000/freeze%20starting%20016.mkv.html

[Razoola]

No problems here and everything's perfectly smooth with all flushes disabled. My setup:

CPU: i7
GPU: ATI Radeon HD4850
OS: Win7 Ultimate x64
Player: MPC-HC 1.3.1788.0. Tests made with KMP too.
Decoder: CoreAVC 2.0
Aero: on
Display resolution + refresh rate: 1920x1080@24/50/60 Hz (depending on source)
Single or multi monitor setup: I've got 2 monitors connected to the card, but only one is enabled at the same time, so single monitor.

Tested 23.976 fps (@24Hz) and 25 fps (@50Hz) content.

madshi, is this enough or do you want me to test your default settings with my setup? (I think if I don't have any problem with no flushes, I won't have them flushing, will I?)

I have aero off due to dual monitor usage. If I change all the windowed mode tweaks to 'no flushes' I get tearing. I have to set either 'after render steps' or 'after last step' to flush (any of the three settings) to remove the tearing. This is win 7 x64.

[Razoola]

Your GPU is *painfully* slow with reporting scanline information. I'll have this worked around in the next build. But I'm not happy about NVidia drivers being so bad in this aspect.

I just wonder if you can contact nvidia about this issue? As you understand whats happening with some cards due to their driver chain maybe you can present the problem to them in a way that they will be able to fix the issue in the driver very easily. We all know this is a driver issue rather than a fault in the cards.

[midiboy]

Originally Posted by midiboy View Post
0.16 crashes the player (zoomplayer). I have attached the logfile to my post. 0.13 worked fine (except for some judder which does not happen with the Haali Renderer).

Which OS are you using? Which GPU? Display mode? Refresh rate? Aero on/off? When does the crash occur, right when starting the video playback, or after a couple of seconds, or when you do something special like switching between windowed/fullscreen? Does the crash occur with all videos or just with some? Which decoder/splitter are you using?

Hi !

I am using Windows 7 x64. Ati 4770 GPU. My displays are:

Dell 3008WFP, 2560x1600x32bppp, 60Hz, primary
JVC HD1 Beamer, 1920x1080,32bpp, 60Hz, secondary
Display drivers ATI 10.5, AERO is ON
This seems to happen with all videofiles I tried, Playback in ZP will not start ... video stays at 00:00, ZP shows a black screen and the madvr logfiles seems to show the same thing over and over: maxTickDif too big

I haven´t even tried doing stuff like switching between fullscreen or windowed mode. I am starting any movie windowed and this happens.

If I then try to press stop after like 5 minutes of waiting for the video to appear, ZP sometimes becomes unresponsive.

Decoder splitter differs depending on the source but mostly ffdshow (pretty recent tryouts build) and Haali splitter (last version).

Bye,
Alex

[Razoola]

madshi!!! I just got 1920x1080x60 for a 60fps video fully smooth on my 9600M GT!!! GPU usage according to GPU-z is ~90%

settings are: all flushes off except for

After render steps: flush and wait (sleep)
after last step: flush

this exact combination only produces fully smooth video for me for 60fps video

I swear, just then when I discovered it, my eyes nearly popped out of my head.

9600M GT (187.45), Windows 7 x64 (aero on), Reclock, MPC-HC, CoreAVC 2.0

Could others please try these settings and report findings:
After render steps: flush and wait (sleep)
after last step: flush


I don't have any 60fps content to test with but otherwise these setting look fine with the content I do have.

[janos666]

This flush thing is interesting. Rendering time with default flushing settings (enabled 3DLUT and Spline64 resize) is ~3.8ms. But it drops to ~0.05ms with all flushing disabled. This could be a bug but my HD5850 also works at the lowest GPU clock without flushing and it has a randomly changing clock (between 400, 550 and 775 Mhz) with default flushing settings. I didn't examined the smoothness of the playback but I didn't noticed any strange thing during a little time without flushing. Does it real and flushing is the biggest resource eater? My laptop will be happy if I can reproduce this with it's 8600M GT...

[Thunderbolt8]

guess this doesnt have the highest priority, but just as a reminder: would it be possible to add a function to take screenshots (png) in mpc-hc? currently, we still have to switch to another renderer in such cases.

[pie1394]

madVR0.16 works fine on the following tested systems. But it still produces tearing with 23.976Hz mode in Win7 near bottom border. It is fine with 59.94 Hz mode just like before.

I also got troubles on Win7 initially. It caused huge madVR rendering time, and abnormal OS hang-up. But it is probably the issue of MPC-HC 1.3.2002 because all problems are gone after MPC-HC 1.3.2010 is used.

CPU: Q6600 @ 2GHz
GPU: nVidia 7300GT (256MB) , Forceware 93.71
OS: WinXP x64
Player: MPC-HC 1.3.2010
Decoder: CoreAVC / PowerDVD 8
Display: 1400x1050@60 Hz (madVR reported 59.84... Hz)
madVR: Luma Bilinear / Chroma Softcubic100
After render steps: flush and wait (sleep)
others off

CPU: E6750 @ 2.8GHz
GPU: nVidia GTX260+ (1792MB) , Forceware 257.15 beta
OS: Win7
Player: MPC-HC 1.3.2010
Decoder: CoreAVC
Aero: off
Display: 1920x1080@59Hz (madVR reported 59.90... Hz)
madVR: Luma Lanczos3 / Chroma Spline64
After render steps: flush and wait (sleep)
others off

[Razoola]

This flush thing is interesting. Rendering time with default flushing settings (enabled 3DLUT and Spline64 resize) is ~3.8ms. But it drops to ~0.05ms with all flushing disabled. This could be a bug but my HD5850 also works at the lowest GPU clock without flushing and it has a randomly changing clock (between 400, 550 and 775 Mhz) with default flushing settings. I didn't examined the smoothness of the playback but I didn't noticed any strange thing during a little time without flushing. Does it real and flushing is the biggest resource eater? My laptop will be happy if I can reproduce this with it's 8600M GT...

madshi has explained that the os stats are not correct if certain flushes are disabled.

[janos666]

madshi has explained that the os stats are not correct if certain flushes are disabled.

I figured it out after I started to play with it on my laptop. But there is some performance improvements, at least for Geforce cards. I can use Softcubic80/100 resize with a 8600M GT now. (Lanczos and Spline are still too heavy but Bilinear was the best achievable method with 1.13)

Another thing:
I made some screenshots (various scenes from 720p sources with printscreen pasted to paint and saved in BMP format in 1920x1200) and now I am sure that Spline64 is the best resize method in MadVR. It is positively sharper than SoftCubic (and it looks like it shows real details, not like a poor sharpening filter which creates a comic book style looking) but it has any noticeable ringing like Lanczos (which is very disturbing with subtitles, some fonts have a full or half ghost image around them. But it is noticeable on movie scenes too - at last when you take a close look and search from it...)
So I suggest to change the default luma upscaler to Spline or SoftCubic. (Spline is better but slower. SoftCuibic shows less details but it does not show ringing. So, maybe Spline32 is the best for a default value and Spline64 is recommanded if you have a fast GPU.)

[namaiki]

janos666, I can't help but ask: did you try-
all flushes off except for

After render steps: flush and wait (sleep)
after last step: flush
with lanczos and spline?

Optimistically, I think it should be *just* possible. My 9600m gt (1920x1080 24fps on 60hz) does ~60% GPU usage, and I think your 8600M GT would do it with about ~80% GPU usage.

[janos666]

janos666, I can't help but ask: did you try-

with lanczos and spline?

Optimistically, I think it should be *just* possible. My 9600m gt (1920x1080 24fps on 60hz) does ~60% GPU usage, and I think your 8600M GT would do it with about ~80% GPU usage.

No, but I tried to disable every flush settings. It is a DDR2 version (and this should be a really cheap DDR2 because it will crash after any little overclock - I can oveclock the GPU and shader clock by ~50/70%).
But I do not care too much about it. This laptop has a poor quality LCD as well (TN+film, of course, and the calibration LUT curves looks like a joke). But I watch only some TV shows on it. (I keep the cinema movies for home to watch them from Blu-Rays on a S-PVA display) And I think I will sale it soon. I was just curious if madVR can be used on it. And yes, it can be (with some restrictions but the display won't let me notice the differences between softcubic80 and Spline36 with poor quality HDTV rips...)