madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[leeperry]

A simple PS script may do the trick for simple color corrections. But yesgrey3 has bigger plans, e.g. like allowing different corrections for different brightness levels and such funny stuff. Doing all the necessary calculations in a script probably costs too much performance. That's why I think the 3dlut file concept is the better solution.
oh OK, well I'm not aware of yesgrey's future plans...and indeed it's nice to do TV>PC conversion through the LUT :)

but it makes the renderer slow to open(fragmentation,etc), and I didn't get the idea that a PS script would cost much performance at all :o

you can use 10 PS scripts in MPC w/o any performance drop(maybe even 30 or 50?), and recent videogames use thousands of them simultaneously...

you said that mVR might very well support PS scripts at some point, so when that'll happen if you could let us pick one for SD and one for HD this would make it much faster to open and not change anything(if you don't use the LUT for TV>PC conversion) IMVHO...well except for ppl who have a true spectrophotometer I guess :)

you can also change the gamma curve in the PS script(the 0.45 value)

[vucloutr]

is there any qualtive difference at least in theory between shader math and 3dluts ?

[madshi]

but it makes the renderer slow to open(fragmentation,etc), and I didn't get the idea that a PS script would cost much performance at all :o

you can use 10 PS scripts in MPC w/o any performance drop(maybe even 30 or 50?), and recent videogames use thousands of them simultaneously...
Compiling scripts and loading them also makes the renderer slow to open. Actually more so than I ever thought they would. Delays caused by script compiling and loading were the biggest startup delay causes in madVR 0.4!! Ok, I compiled and loaded about 100 pixel shaders in madVR 0.4. But the delay caused by that was bigger than the 3dlut file loading delay...

Games may use thousands of PS scripts at the same time (I doubt that, though), but not on every pixel on the whole screen. Or else you'd get a slideshow...

I don't know which graphics card you have. Probably it's a good one if you're able to use >10 MPC scripts at the same time, cause budget models already fight with the load madVR is putting on them right now.

you said that mVR might very well support PS scripts at some point, so when that'll happen if you could let us pick one for SD and one for HD this would make it much faster to open and not change anything(if you don't use the LUT for TV>PC conversion) IMVHO...well except for ppl who have a true spectrophotometer I guess :)
Probably madVR will only support scripts fed to it by the media player. So I won't let you pick scripts at all. The media player will have to do the dirty work...

[yesgrey]

do you think making 4x100mb of LUT data is the best option?
No. That's why we are thinking in adding compression to the 3dlut files. I will look into it after finishing the custom gamma curves.

[madshi]

is there any qualtive difference at least in theory between shader math and 3dluts ?
With madVR 0.6 the 3dlut is ever so slightly more exact compared to shader math, because the color space conversion coefficients used by madVR 0.6's shader math only have 3-4 digits. That will change with madVR 0.7, where shader math coefficients will have 16 digits. So with madVR 0.7 3dlut and shader math should produce more or less identical results. The "missing exactness" in madVR 0.6's shader math should be very small, though, so no need to worry. Everyone else (e.g. ffdshow) is only using 3-4 digits, too, IIRC.

Of course what I wrote above is only valid if you use the stock 3dlut files without any gamut/gamma correction and without any other customization. As soon as you modify the 3dlut configuration to your personal needs, of course the 3dlut will produce different results compared to shader math.

[racerxnet]

Great to see the new renderer. I Downloaded the latest 1054 MPC-HCand set it up in a couple of minutes. Glad to see subtitles and menu selection.

One small bug I see is a small window which flashes in the upper left hand side once in a while while playing a dvd. It looks to be a windowed scene of the movie. Not sure if this is when it switches from one VOB to the next. Other than that I have had no other problems yet.

WIN XP Sp2
C2 Duo 6320
ATI 3850
Asus P5W-DH


Thanks,

MAK

[madshi]

One small bug I see is a small window which flashes in the upper left hand side once in a while while playing a dvd. It looks to be a windowed scene of the movie.
Does it only happen with madVR and with no other renderer? If so, can I see a screenshot, please?

[nijiko]

>>madshi

I made 3dlut enabled. But it's not improved.

And, the problem mainly happens on X264 in MP4 files.(High CPU usage.)

Besides, 3dlut uses 96MB * 4 = 384MB HDD space. It's so crazy...

[leeperry]

No. That's why we are thinking in adding compression to the 3dlut files. I will look into it after finishing the custom gamma curves.
compression will only make things worse I think? RAR at least :o
I compiled and loaded about 100 pixel shaders in madVR 0.4. But the delay caused by that was bigger than the 3dlut file loading delay...

Games may use thousands of PS scripts at the same time (I doubt that, though), but not on every pixel on the whole screen. Or else you'd get a slideshow...

I don't know which graphics card you have. Probably it's a good one if you're able to use >10 MPC scripts at the same time, cause budget models already fight with the load madVR is putting on them right now.

Probably madVR will only support scripts fed to it by the media player. So I won't let you pick scripts at all. The media player will have to do the dirty work...
1) oh ok so it's not slow opening up because of the LUT loading...well I'll copy the LUT's on a ramdisk anyway :D
2) I just checked, what they said is that each pixel in Crysis was processed by a minimum of 150 PS scripts...maybe not the same type that MPC uses, though.
3) 8800GS, G92 96SP
4) alright, so MPC is the only option then.
Of course what I wrote above is only valid if you use the stock 3dlut files without any gamut/gamma correction and without any other customization. As soon as you modify the 3dlut configuration to your personal needs, of course the 3dlut will produce different results compared to shader math.
I've posted pix of my gamut conversion w/ the PS script and ddcc in realtime here :
http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1273996&postcount=288

except if you have a freshly recalibrated spectrophotometer, and are REALLY picky about colorimetry....it won't make the slightest visible difference IMVHO.

anyway, case closed..LUT it is! :thanks: all!

[Peuj]

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

disadvantages:

- hardware accelerated video decoding (DXVA) is not supported


Hi,

Just curious, this will always be not supported?

Thanks

[nijiko]

Excute me. When I play some MKV files which contains X264 and AAC. On the left and the right of video screen there are blackbars?

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6983/snap.jpg

[Hypernova]

Just a short feedback (since the conversation reach the point where I can't really catch up), madVR 0.6 seem to detect my monitor refresh rate wrong when watching full screen. It reports ~68-75 Hz instead of ~60 Hz, which is the correct one. My guess is that it may have something to do with the fact that playback is not smooth because when I change scaling method to Nearest Neighbor, which make it play smoothly, the refresh rate is correct again.

[nijiko]

What's the diff between bicubic and softcubic?
And between such as 50, 60, 70...?

And, What's the diff between 3dlut enable and disable?
I didn't find any difference between them...?

[iSunrise]

Unfortunately I can not reproduce any of this, sadly. Even your samples all work perfectly fine here with both ZoomPlayer 5 and 6. Does everyone have these problems? If so, can you please help me reproducing them?
Of course. Just FYI, madVR 0.4 worked perfectly fine WRT resizing (up/down) in ZP 6.00 and up (I´m a beta tester). With 0.6, it just displays the video at full width/height _as if the actual resizing never took place_ (madVR is probably missing some information there).

Here´s a shot:
http://www.abload.de/thumb/0.6_resizedq2m.png (http://www.abload.de/image.php?img=0.6_resizedq2m.png)

I´ve tried a lot of different combinations to narrow it down and I think I actually found the cause of this. To reproduce this, please e.x. play any .wmv file with ffdshow as audio/video decoder (works as it should) and after that use the supplied MS DMO decoders (doesn´t work). It seems to be decoder dependent, as the same error happens if you decode .mov or .mp4 with coreavc, but it doesn´t happen if you use ffdshow only.

Apart from that (0.4 vs. 0.6):
+faster startup (confirmed)
+window/fullscreen switching has improved a lot
+subjectively it looks a bit smoother on my CRT (running @100Hz)
+max. rendering time shows less spikes

Since now you can select luma/chroma independent of one another, avg rendering time is a lot higher if you go crazy e.x. with the luma, but that´s to be expected. I´ve tested this on a very powerful GTX260-216 (@GTX285 speeds). Other testers should take that into account when comparing between 0.4 and 0.6.

wolverine-tlra_h1080p.mov (first official trailer):
movie frame interval: 41.71ms
avg gpu rendering times (luma/chroma):
Bilinear/Bilinear - 2.7ms
SoftCubic50/SoftCubic50 - 3.8ms
SoftCubic50/Spline36 - 4.5ms
Spline36/Spline36 - 6.5ms
Lanczos8/Spline36 - 8.9ms
Lanczos8/Lanczos8 - 9.8ms
max. gpu rendering time was always higher by about ~1.7ms

[honai]

Here are some performance numbers from two different machines. Configuration is the same (Vista SP1, MPC-HC 1059 SVN, ReClock 1.8.4.2 no resampling no vsync, madVR 0.6, CoreAVC 1.9.5.0), playing Iron Man (US) AVC BD from HDD.

(1) MacBook Pro 2008, 2.4GHz C2D, nVidia 8600M GT 128MB (G84M), 1920x1080 resized to 1440x900 display:

avg gpu rendering time: 42.69ms
25.75ms resample textures
2.27ms clear
0.16ms init samplers
14.55ms render

max gpu rendering time 46.14ms
31.25ms resample textures
2.28ms clear
0.22ms init samplers
14.62ms render

avrg present wait 2.04ms

(1) Desktop PC, 2.6GHz A64 AM2, nVidia 9600 GT 1024MB (G94), 1920x1080 resized to 1680x1050 display:

avg gpu rendering time: 14.44ms
8.96ms resample textures
0.19ms clear
0.25ms init samplers
3.64ms render

max gpu rendering time 18.22ms
13.63ms resample textures
0.82ms clear
0.23ms init samplers
3.66ms render

avrg present wait 1.90ms

[TinTime]

I´ve tried a lot of different combinations to narrow it down and I think I actually found the cause of this. To reproduce this, please e.x. play any .wmv file with ffdshow as audio/video decoder (works as it should) and after that use the supplied MS DMO decoders (doesn´t work). It seems to be decoder dependent, as the same error happens if you decode .mov or .mp4 with coreavc, but it doesn´t happen if you use ffdshow only.

After reading this I tried different decoders and found the same thing. Using the Nvidia MPEG2 decoder and CoreAVC decoder the image is displayed incorrectly as in my previous post here (http://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1275796&postcount=439). If I use ffdshow though as decoder for MPEG-2 or AVC it works fine.

[Ramir Gonzales]

This project is doomed to fail.

Please consider to restart from scratch.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

I just gave madVR a first try. I noticed that madVR is rendering at 60 fps (measured with FRAPS), although the movie is only 24 fps. It plays at correct "speed" though, the audio is in sync too. However when I watch the same video with EVR then it renders at 24 fps (again measured with FRAPS). The difference is that the EVR version plays 100% smooth, while the madVR version plays slightly jerky. This is quite surprising, as my GTX 260 should have enough power for madVR, I guess. If not, what monstrosity of a GPU do I need to use that renderer? Also I noticed that the framerate drops from 60 fps to ~50-40 when I go fullscreen and/or use a more "heavy" scaling method (e.g. Spline64). I'm using CoreAVC as my decoder. Tried both, with and without CUDA enabled, but no noteworthy difference...

[STaRGaZeR]

I just gave madVR a first try. I noticed that madVR is rendering at 60 fps (measured with FRAPS)

It's rendering at the monitor refresh rate, not specifically 60fps.

[LoRd_MuldeR]

It's rendering at the monitor refresh rate, not specifically 60fps.

But why? If the movie framerate is significant lower than the monitor refresh rare (like 24 fps -vs- 60 Hz) this will cause the same frame to be rendered several times. That's a huge waste of processing power, isn't it? Also I guess that this is the reason why madVR doesn't play 100% smooth. As can be checked easily, the rendering rate will often drop below the screen refresh rate - especially in fullscreen mode and when one of the more "heavy" scaling methods is used. EVR as well as Haali Renderer will render at the movie framerate and I get perfectly smooth playback with these renderers. With madVR the video plays slightly jerky. It's not that much jerky, but enough to be annoying and to prefer another renderer for the time being. Nobody else experiencing that?

[Anima123]

Refresh rate detection failed here both with 85Hz & 60Hz.

Ati HD-2400
Catalyst 9.4

[neoufo51]

This project is doomed to fail.

Please consider to restart from scratch.
I want to know why you feel this way. I'm not defending the work done so far, I'm just curious what prompted you to be so brutally honest.

[Egh]

Well, madVR 0.6 is definitely a step to the right direction. Start-up time is greatly improved!

As for using or not using 3DLUTs, I cannot spot any difference really during playback (in terms of CPU consumption). Do they really work now?

Comparing to Haali renderer, for SD content (dvd rezo) cpu usage is practially same, and interestingly enough, that seems to be irrelevant of the actual upscale method used. For 720p content here (avc), madVR uses more cpu power, but not much so. For the same file CPU usage is typically under 20% with HR and typically under 30% with mVR. Of course that is not constant, so sometimes HR may use 15%, mVR may use around 22% at the same scene. However 1080p content (I use downscaling to 720p) takes more CPU than 0.4 version, in my opinion.

mVR is not as smooth though as Haali, I can spot the difference on panning scenes. Not really troublesome, but somewhat annoying during such scenes. However that was measured @ CRT monitor @ 100Hz, where mVR fails to keep the rate for long, I think the record was 6 or 7 seconds. On my LCD display (60Hz) though it is very accurate and keeps 4 digits precision for minutes.

A choice of PC/TV levels is superb, however still second my request for future choice between 601/709 (i.e. it should be automatic based on resolution but with an option to change it from the mVR dialog).

[cyberbeing]

They have different names now, but madVR should automatically create them if they're missing! Have you removed the cr3dlut directory or removed or modified any files in it?

P.S: It might be a NTFS security problem. Can madVR write to its own folder on your PC?
Next time could you put the lut name changes in the changelog?

I always create my luts (using custom primaries) manually so I don't really want my luts created automatically. They didn't get created automatically because I didn't feel the need to copy over the cr3dlut directory included with madVR 0.6. Basically it was missing the new template files.

Automatic creation did work when I overwrote the madVR 0.4 cr3dlut directory with the madVR 0.6 cr3dlut directory.

In any case, please include this change and any future changes like this to the changelog. It also may not be a bad idea to add an option to disable automatic lut creation as well.
___________________
Bug Edit:
In madVR 0.6 the resampling isn't working properly when video resolution = display resolution. By that I mean it is for some reason resampling textures when no resize is needed. The resampling textures latency when changing between resize algorithms will change drastically even in this no resize situation. Since this causes latency (resample + render time) to go above frame interval on 1920x1080 video it's a major problem. It seems 0.4 has a similar, but much less noticeable problem, since it only resamples the chroma (~5ms avg | ~14ms max) when source resolution = display resolution, while 0.6 resizes both luma and chroma (~20ms avg | ~30ms max) with the specified settings when source resolution = display resolution. This is not the desired behavior. A workaround is manually changing the resize algorithm to bilinear.

Edit 2:
Something else really odd is going on when video resolution = display resolution (likely related to the bug above). If I choose Spline64 for luma and Catmull-rom for chroma, resample latency is ~5ms avg. If I choose Catmull-rom for both luma and chroma, resample latency is still ~5ms. If I choose Spline64 for luma and Bilinear for chroma, resample latency is ~9ms. If I choose Bilinear for luma and Spline64 for chroma, resample latency is ~14ms. If I choose Bilinear for both luma and chroma, resample latency is ~0.02ms. This suggests there may be a more significant problem in the resize code.

[Casshern]

I think he has a point here. If picture content does not change it makes no sense to render again for the next screen refresh. If one plays back 23.976 material with 47.952 it's twice the unneccessary load and with higher refresh rates its even worse. Subtitles and OSD could still be superimposed every screen refresh. It would probably solve a lot of GPU speed issues for most.


But why? If the movie framerate is significant lower than the monitor refresh rare (like 24 fps -vs- 60 Hz) this will cause the same frame to be rendered several times. That's a huge waste of processing power, isn't it? Also I guess that this is the reason why madVR doesn't play 100% smooth. As can be checked easily, the rendering rate will often drop below the screen refresh rate - especially in fullscreen mode and when one of the more "heavy" scaling methods is used. EVR as well as Haali Renderer will render at the movie framerate and I get perfectly smooth playback with these renderers. With madVR the video plays slightly jerky. It's not that much jerky, but enough to be annoying and to prefer another renderer for the time being. Nobody else experiencing that?

[Mike5]

What happens if you change your refresh rate to e.g. 60Hz, does detection still fail?

I tried also on my projector at 50Hz and the values displayed by madVR are wrong and changing (75-85 Hz) with the time fixed at 1s.

I use a monitor at a time (single monitor), so it's not a dual monitor problem.

I didn't tried 60Hz and didn't tried in XP, so it could be a Win7 problem.

Unfortunately I can't try at work, because I get the "card only supports power of 2 textures" error. So I'll try tonight.

BTW, I tried to overcome the power of 2 limitation resizing the video to a power of 2 (1024x1024) with ffdshow, but it didn't work.:(

[cyberbeing]

Speaking of the refresh rate detection, it still isn't working perfectly over here with 0.6 even after your improvements. Very often at times between 1s and 12s it always seems to reset back to 1s, yet rarely it seems to go on forever without issue. Whether it works well or not seems completely random with no correlation with resolution or refresh rate. On the positive side, the values reported do seem accurate and don't fluctuate much (+/- 0.00010Hz) even when it resets itself back to 1s. Would you consider this acceptable enough or are you expecting it to never reset itself?

[Mark_A_W]

Just tried v0.6, and it's smooth. Very, very smooth. Wow.

I'm trying it with Reclock set to "bypass" now, jsut to see.

What did you do Madshi?

I need to compare it to Beliyaal's MPC builds, to see which is smoother for primetime use :)



Umm....what happen to the OSD tick box? How do I turn the OSD on?


I like the PC/TV levels buttons. Except they're backwards. Well...actually they are the right way round if you ask me, but everyone else does it backwards, so there is a defacto standard.

If you are going to label them differently, can you do it in a similar fashion to ffdshow, which is very clear, no confusion.

Oh, I still have the issue where Zoom Player exits when I play the second file. Vista32, HD2600XT, ZP 6.

Thanks

Mark

[hubblec4]

It seems that your graphics card has a quite limited feature set. It does not support what madVR asks it to do (namely create textures in the resolution of the video file). Unfortunately for now there's no way for you to make madVR work, except by getting a newer graphics card. Maybe eventually perhaps I'll find a way to make madVR work on your graphics card, too, sooner or later, but I can't say for sure. Also I don't know how well it would perform, even if I found a way to make it work...

ok. maybe i will buy a new graphics card, what i need?
ATI or NVIDIA what is better?

hubble

[Mark_A_W]

Just tried v0.6, and it's smooth. Very, very smooth. Wow.

I'm trying it with Reclock set to "bypass" now, jsut to see.

What did you do Madshi?

I need to compare it to Beliyaal's MPC builds, to see which is smoother for primetime use :)



Umm....what happen to the OSD tick box? How do I turn the OSD on?


I like the PC/TV levels buttons. Except they're backwards. Well...actually they are the right way round if you ask me, but everyone else does it backwards, so there is a defacto standard.

If you are going to label them differently, can you do it in a similar fashion to ffdshow, which is very clear, no confusion.

Oh, I still have the issue where Zoom Player exits when I play the second file. Vista32, HD2600XT, ZP 6.

Thanks

Mark



Ok, a bit more experimenting...

It's smooth with Reclock running as per normal. No tearing.

It's not smooth with Reclock "bypassed" (Slave and Original speed set). Still no tearing/

And I'm going bananas over the OSD thing. Others are posting their data and I can see a way to turn the darn thing on. Am I going round the twist?

[yesgrey]

As for using or not using 3DLUTs, I cannot spot any difference really during playback (in terms of CPU consumption). Do they really work now?
Yes. The work is done in the GPU, that's why you don't see more CPU consumption.

BTW, I tried to overcome the power of 2 limitation resizing the video to a power of 2 (1024x1024) with ffdshow, but it didn't work.:(
Your screen resolution dimensions should be a power of 2...

And I'm going bananas over the OSD thing. Others are posting their data and I can see a way to turn the darn thing on. Am I going round the twist?
Ctrl+J (1 click some stats, 2 click more stats)

[THX-UltraII]

Just tried v0.6, and it's smooth. Very, very smooth. Wow.

I'm trying it with Reclock set to "bypass" now, jsut to see.


I ve just noticed this topic when coming back from a vacation. What do you mean with Reclock bypassing? Isn t it needed anymore when you choose MADvr as output in MPC-HC?

[Mark_A_W]

Ctrl+J (1 click some stats, 2 click more stats)


Thanks Yesgrey.. I forgot.

Ok, it's still playing smoothly. Reclock tearing test is not jumping around at all.

But my display is reported as 140 to 144hz, with 1 second in brackets.


It should be ~95.904hz (2600XT).

That's not so good..

[Mark_A_W]

I ve just noticed this topic when coming back from a vacation. What do you mean with Reclock bypassing? Isn t it needed anymore when you choose MADvr as output in MPC-HC?

From my brief testing tonight, MadVR needs Reclock running as per normal (Auto mode, but Reclock V-sync off....I think..still playing).

MPC-HC can now be run with Reclock resampling turned off (Slave and Original speed selected). I get a glitch about once an hour, but it does that no matter how Reclock is set, and also does it with Waveout, so it's a MPC issue.

[THX-UltraII]

From my brief testing tonight, MadVR needs Reclock running as per normal (Auto mode, but Reclock V-sync off....I think..still playing).

MPC-HC can now be run with Reclock resampling turned off (Slave and Original speed selected). I get a glitch about once an hour, but it does that no matter how Reclock is set, and also does it with Waveout, so it's a MPC issue.

thxz. What about the settings of madvr. WHich are best to choose/what do they do?:

use 3dlut?
luma/chroma resampling? (which setting is best to pick when you play mostly 1080p material with a fast pc?)

don t use dithering? check or uncheck?
use 10 bit luma/chroma? in which case do you check these?
disable anti-tearing fix? in which case do you check this?

[leeperry]

I get a glitch about once an hour, but it does not matter how Reclock is set, and also does it with Waveout, so it's a MPC issue.
hah! this "glitch" every hour always drops frames like crazy here w/ Reclock and requires a reseek(on XP SP3) :(
Actually, I even wonder how ppl can be watching movies in MPC...it constantly drops frames w/o Reclock by design(23.976@60Hz anyone? :D), so I guess I have my answer :o
I've discussed it w/ Casimir many times, but he couldn't find the problem...ah well, MPC+Reclock is not a drop-free solution, KMP is :)

but madshi won't let us change the GUID of his renderer to make it KMP-compatible(and the KMP coder is AWOL)...I love how nothing ever goes the way you'd like.

[Mike5]

Your screen resolution dimensions should be a power of 2...

Not sure to have understood. I tried to set screen resolution to 1024x1024@60Hz with PowerStrip and, after a restart, Windows XP accepted it. But madVR keeps reporting "graphics card only supports power of 2 textures".

I tried to resize the video to 1024x1024 with ffdshow with the same screen resolution, but there is no point.

Or you mean the native monitor resolution ? (which I can't change, of course).

[Mark_A_W]

hah! this "glitch" every hour always drops frames like crazy here w/ Reclock and requires a reseek :(
Actually, I even wonder how ppl can be watching movies in MPC...it constantly drops frames w/o Reclock by design(23.976@60Hz anyone? :D), so I guess I have my answer :o
I've discussed it w/ Casimir many times, but he couldn't find the problem...ah well, MPC+Reclock is not a drop-free solution, KMP is :)

but madshi won't let us change the GUID of his renderer to make it KMP-compatible(and the KMP coder is AWOL)...I love how nothing ever goes the way you'd like.

No, your issue sounds different.

For me, Beliyaal's builds of MPC, using EVR Custom presenter, are PERFECT....except for this glitch. It is smoother than HR + Reclock...smoother than any PC I have ever seen. As smooth as a Video Processor like a VP-50.

Flawless....till the stupid glitch happens. It's not a dropped frame, it's half a second of repeating audio and a huge pause or jump in the video.

You can't be using the MPC-HC tweaks, as it needs EVR Custom, and that only works properly on Vista? I thought you were on XP?

[leeperry]

No, your issue sounds different.

For me, Beliyaal's builds of MPC, using EVR Custom presenter, are PERFECT....except for this glitch. It is smoother than HR + Reclock...smoother than any PC I have ever seen. As smooth as a Video Processor like a VP-50.

Flawless....till the stupid glitch happens. It's not a dropped frame, it's half a second of repeating audio and a huge pause or jump in the video.

You can't be using the MPC-HC tweaks, as it needs EVR Custom, and that only works properly on Vista? I thought you were on XP?
well yeah, after 1H it goes nuts and drops frames, requiring a reseek....doesn't occur in KMP.
same problem w/ custom EVR/mVR/VMR9 on XP...only exclusive mode seems to fix this problem.

EVR smoother than HR or mVR? I've never seen that in my experience :confused: HR never drops frames, but indeed on Vista Aero makes HR jerky to hell.

[mark0077]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever seen HR report a dropped frame? I am wondering does it report any frames it drops to the mpc-hc gui at all? I very rarely get even 1 dropped frame with beliyaal's evr-cp but it definitely reports the 1 or 2 it may drop if I am running background apps or something like that.

[leeperry]

Just out of curiosity, have you ever seen HR report a dropped frame? I am wondering does it report any frames it drops to the mpc-hc gui at all? I very rarely get even 1 dropped frame with beliyaal's evr-cp but it definitely reports the 1 or 2 it may drop if I am running background apps or something like that.
no need for OSD's, I can see the dropped frames in MPC w/ VMR9/EVR/mVR, they simply show up randomly..and after 45'/1H it drops frames constantly requiring a reseek.

HR never drops frames, I project on a 2.3meters wide projection screen...believe me dropped frames literally explode to your face when they happen :eek:

and I've watched quite a lot of movies w/ HR+Reclock@48Hz in the past 2 years....now tritical has added a CMS so it's pure bliss :)

madshi has some mad plans for mVR, so I'll be watching for updates about smoothness, though :devil:

[mark0077]

no need for OSD's, I can see the dropped frames in MPC w/ VMR9/EVR/mVR, they simply show up randomly..and after 45'/1H it drops frames constantly requiring a reseek.

HR never drops frames, I project on a 2.3meters wide projection screen...believe me dropped frames literally explode to your face when they happen :eek:

and I've watched quite a lot of movies w/ HR+Reclock@48Hz in the past 2 years....now tritical has added CMS so it's pure bliss :)

Excellent stuff, I assume you can't use evr-cp for some reason? Never get dropped frames here anymore..... Can't wait for madVR to continue development.... looks very promising. Would love to get rid of reclock altogether and use mpc-hc with madVR. My only need for reclock that I don't see being a feature of any renderers / players is the PAL SpeedDown (25fps -> 24fps) which I have gotten so used to and the other media speed changes that it makes to try and keep smoothness (eg 23.97fps -> 24fps in the case of 60hz / 48hz / 24hz display).

[Mark_A_W]

well yeah, after 1H it goes nuts and drops frames, requiring a reseek....doesn't occur in KMP.
same problem w/ custom EVR/mVR/VMR9 on XP...only exclusive mode seems to fix this problem.

EVR smoother than HR or mVR? I've never seen that in my experience :confused: HR never drops frames, but indeed on Vista Aero makes HR jerky to hell.


I'm not talking about something as coarse as a dropped frame, I mean jitter related "jumpiness". Subtle imperfections.

I'm almost completely insensitive to colour issues, as long as they aren't ridiculous, but imperfect motion drives me batty.

I don't use Aero on Vista. It causes complete havoc with multi-monitors.

And yes. The new builds of MPC-HC are smoother than HR or (today's) MadVR. MPC doesn't need reclock. HR and MadVR do.

We'll see what Madshi can pull out of his hat, he's a magician. He's equalled HR on my system in just a few days.

[leeperry]

Excellent stuff, I assume you can't use evr-cp for some reason? Never get dropped frames here anymore.....
nah I've seen MPC in EVR drop frames randomly too often to my taste, I've been traumatized http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/-tinost@r-.gif
plus EVR has some ugly sharpening on top of it that ruins my LSF processing and makes it oversharpened :(
yeah, I heard EVR in exclusive mode on XP was super smooth....but it doesn't have a jitter correction like HR does(that keep video frames in the graphic card's RAM and carefully syncs them to match the Reclock timeframes) and I'm quite addicted to butter smooth drop-free video actually :D

I've read that the new EVR CP from Beliyaal was hell smooth, but EVR is still too sharp....maybe he could also make a CP for HR/mVR, now that'd be awesome :)
We'll see what Madshi can pull out of his hat, he's a magician. He's equalled HR on my system in just a few days.
agreed! too bad the damn MPC presenter still drops frames randomly, and constantly after 1H(in non-exclusive mode) :(

HR in ZP6 works very poorly on my system, so the presenter seems to be just as important as the renderer.

[FoLLgoTT]

For me, Beliyaal's builds of MPC, using EVR Custom presenter, are PERFECT....except for this glitch. It is smoother than HR + Reclock...smoother than any PC I have ever seen. As smooth as a Video Processor like a VP-50.

What smoothness do you mean exactly? Does Beliyall's version do a frame interpolation like DNM?

I ask, because with tweaking of the refresh rate I have 0 frame drops and only 1 AC3 packet drop/repeat (S/PDIF pass through) every about 10 hours. So for every movie it is perfect. What can be done better by an external scaler?

[yesgrey]

I tried to set screen resolution to 1024x1024@60Hz with PowerStrip and, after a restart, Windows XP accepted it. But madVR keeps reporting "graphics card only supports power of 2 textures".
Yes, that's what I meant.

I tried to resize the video to 1024x1024 with ffdshow with the same screen resolution, but there is no point.
Have this worked?

[cheetah111]

Am I missing something? I am trying to get MadVR to work but no matter what I do, I get an “opening 3dlut file failed” message.
I get the same message with Cyberlink Powerdvd 8 AVC/H264 decoder and FFDShow decoder. MPC H264 internal decoder does not connect.
Are there any requirements for DirectX files, or Catalyst version or any other? Where is that option in FFDShow, which allows us to connect MadVR?:confused:

Win XP SP3, ATI 4850 512MB, Catalyst 8.7, MPC-HC svn 1059.
Thanks.

[Mike5]

Have this worked?

No:( I get audio, the cursor goes on, but video is black.

[cheetah111]

No:( I get audio, the cursor goes on, but video is black.

That happens to me when I use FFDshow and when I left click I get the message "opening 3dlut file failed".

[honai]

What smoothness do you mean exactly? Does Beliyall's version do a frame interpolation like DNM?

Not interpolation, but it repeats frames as many times as necessary to sync 24p to 50/60Hz.