madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Gee]

sorry but decoding is not about opinions.

CUVID is known to be "not" optimal to say it friendly.

U dont understand me.. ^^ copy-back performance is realy poor on my system especaly on HDR materials.. cant use that.. works only on dxva2 native on my system

[huhn]

did you check your nvidia power settings so they are not set to "optimal".

can you make a screen of the osd?

a 950 has only 2Gb of Vram check your Vram usages and change the queue accordingly.

CUVID is copyback too just that you know.
U must use D3D11 Exclusive and BT2020 Mode under display devices. and pass throu HDR content direkt to the dispaly if u have a HDC cabable TV. And u must set the display frequency to 50Hz + using reclock

are you sure your system is ok?

[Gee]

which tool is required for displaying VRAM? cant find such tools on google..

[huhn]

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

this tool may effect performance when open.

seeing a ~1800 mb Vram usages doesn't mean you are not running out of Vram.

[Gee]

ok thanks i will test it

[mparade]

Has madVR access to the filename? If yes it can read a tag such as "F-SBS" and auto switch to correct 3D mode.. would be nice

It has access to the filename and has "3D" boolean variable as well, but so far I wasn't succeeded in generating such a rule that could have solved the FSBS "issue". The reason should be that Full SBS 3D input format is simply not supported at all (it is not even possible to create a unique profile for it), but as an output format it is, however, it would be reasonable if someone is playing a 3D collection from HDD (in my opinion more reasonable than playing the source h264 + MVC containers). Fast GPU-s can easily render HEVC containers with the correct settings.

[x7007]

U must use D3D11 Exclusive and BT2020 Mode under display devices. and pass throu HDR content direkt to the dispaly if u have a HDC cabable TV. And u must set the display frequency to 50Hz + using reclock


BTW the Questions i must unswerd every time to post a reply are soo dammmmn anoing!! -.-

Windows 10 1703 15063.540
1080 GTX 384.94

With potplayer when using Exclusive mode + madVR Exclusive full screen mode + Windows 10 HDR mode enabled . when going into full screen everything becomes a lot brighter , is that how it suppose to be ?

In madVR do I need to choose in Calibration This Display is already calibrated BT.2020 pure power curve 2.40 ? because I'm using BT1886 Gamma which is like 2.4 on the TV settings.

because it says D3D11 exclusive 10 bit
but NV12 , 8 bit 4:2:0

On Exclusive Full Screen it looks with HD weird ... like without exclusive it looks better. or only in exclusive full screen it actually use HDR right ? on Full Screen exclusive the TV doesn't say it is using HDR BT.2020 anymore . Just normal 3840x2160p PCM

does it suppose to look like this ?
that's windowed mode, not full screen windowed or exclusive. That's with Windows 10 HDR disabled, but that's how it looks like in Full Screen Exclusive.

http://imgur.com/a/FY7uc

[Video Information]
Codec: HVC1
Input type: NV12(12 bits)
Input size: 3840 x 2160(1.78:1)
Output type: NV12(12 bits)
Output size: 3840 x 2160(1.78:1)
Frame rate: 24
BitRate: Unknown

[Asmodian]

Something is wrong with your present queue, do you have the "hack Direct3D to make 24.000Hz and 60.000Hz work" option enabled or are you on an Optimus laptop?

Try without using potplayer, or maybe potplayer not in exclusive mode (what is a player doing with exclusive/non-exclusive anyway?).

[70MM]

try 200% (i use this myself) and please make a screen of your whole desktop (control + print) with the madVR osd and post it please.

Thank you so much guys for your help last night, Im finally scaling correctly after moving windows from 175% to 200% for 4K.
No more 1080 >3291 x 1851 for all content
Im now getting 1080> 3840 x 2160 which has allowed me to move up to much higher settings on my 1080Ti card, and the results are out of this world!!!

You guys are amazing, I have learnt so much in here!:thanks:

[x7007]

Something is wrong with your present queue, do you have the "hack Direct3D to make 24.000Hz and 60.000Hz work" option enabled or are you on an Optimus laptop?

Try without using potplayer, or maybe potplayer not in exclusive mode (what is a player doing with exclusive/non-exclusive anyway?).

It just maybe the movie was on pause mode after I left Full screen exclusive mode. I just wanted to show that it's not running on HDR , that's the important detail, and it looks different . can anyone download the file and test it with his player ?
it's a desktop, no optimus .
"hack direct3D " is not enabled.


The video looks like this for me with HDR enabled. There are links to download the file from below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weoZ-YtD2Fo

so it's not running with HDR correctly because youtube doesn't support HDR.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5k5NqLItEcTeE5rRWdMZEhIaWM

[Siso]

Something is wrong with your present queue, do you have the "hack Direct3D to make 24.000Hz and 60.000Hz work" option enabled or are you on an Optimus laptop?

Try without using potplayer, or maybe potplayer not in exclusive mode (what is a player doing with exclusive/non-exclusive anyway?).

Is there any problem with madvr and potplayer? Like not filling queues or something?

[x7007]

Is there any problem with madvr and potplayer? Like not filling queues or something?

It was just in pause mode, it's not the issue now.

http://imgur.com/a/I5L3I

[Gee]

https://www.techpowerup.com/gpuz/

this tool may effect performance when open.

seeing a ~1800 mb Vram usages doesn't mean you are not running out of Vram.

Im on the Limit with my GTX 950 2GB.. it uses around 1500-1800MB VRAM -.-

maybe i better switch to 1050TI with 4GB..

[ryrynz]

Much better going for a 1060 unless the RAM doubling and a small performance upgrade is all you want.

[Gee]

Much better going for a 1060 unless the RAM doubling and a small performance upgrade is all you want.

Is much too expensive only for waching Movies..

[leeperry]

actually deringer removes so many artifacts from the original picture that the "add grain" option does come in very handy but even a strength of 1 is already pretty strong, any chance you could like half the strength of every step and go up to 8 instead of 4? I don't see the current 4 being useful to anything IME, 0.5 or 0.66 would hit the spot :)

:thanks:

[Manni]

@Madshi

Some feedback for your experimental refresh rate tool (on nVidia):

- It only accepted the EDID values for three rates (23, 25 and 50). It rejected all the others (error saying GPU didn't accept for unknown reasons). That's not too bad for me, as 99% of my content is Bluray/PAL DVD, but would be a problem for people with lots of NTSC or TV content.

- I tested before/after with 23p (98% of my content) and the improvement is significant. I go from one frame repeated every 5mn to one frame drop every 50mn. Render is 25-30ms, so there should be no frame drop at all (I had none for days with my AMD HD7870 on the same HTPC).

Thanks for working on this, I know it's possible to do this manually but your tool makes it very easy (near instant) to get a great improvement.

See sig for rig.

EDIT: I should add that 24p, 25p and 50p are now gone from the drop list in the nVidia panel. Is this to be expected? They are still present in the OS drop down list in the monitor properties. I use MyMovies to switch the refresh rate, so hopefully it will work as it's using the OS to detect the available rates. I'll do more tests but it seemed to work fine yesterday...

EDIT2: I've done more tests, 23p no frame drop time seems to have gone up to around 2 hours, so near perfect. The auto frame rate switch works fine from MyMovies, and I'm getting similar results in 24p, 25p and 30p. Well done!

[70MM]

actually deringer removes so many artifacts from the original picture....

I dont use de-ringer at all as Im not sure from where to use it as its in three separate menus of madvr. What section is best to use it, or do you use it from all three areas?

[leeperry]

I dont use de-ringer at all as Im not sure from where to use it as its in three separate menus of madvr. What section is best to use it, or do you use it from all three areas?

I only use it under /processing/artifacts removal/

Having more thoughts about it, it'd be great if "add grain" came with the same 0.x granularity as almost all other upscaling refinements please. I just want enough grain to replace ringing artifacts but not enough to actually notice the extra grain, I'm aiming for a compromise here and current strength of "1" already appears too strong :o

[JarrettH]

I just spent a long time attempting to quantify exactly how much less blending happens as the refresh rate increases. :p

24.00000 Hz = 99.80% blended, 50% average blend
30.00000 Hz = 79.82% blended, 40% average blend
48.00000 Hz = 49.85% blended, 25% average blend
59.94006 Hz = 40.03% blended, 20% average blend
60.00000 Hz = 39.86% blended, 20% average blend
75.00000 Hz = 31.87% blended, 16% average blend
120.0000 Hz = 19.88% blended, 10% average blend
144.0000 Hz = 16.62% blended, 8% average blend

My Excel Spreadsheet (http://www.mediafire.com/file/zvfvwtg3d545d9f/FrameRate_Mismatch.xlsx) if anyone is interested or wants to check my work. :)

Thanks for calculating this, by the way :sly:

[Siso]

Saw this in a madvr guide, is it really true?

"The sharpness of the algorithm used in chroma upscaling section should not exceed the sharpness of the algorithm used in the image upscaling section. It could be the same, but not exceed it."

[huhn]

time to move to the next guide or better your eyes.

super XBr 150 is a fine chroma scaler but for luma i would not use 150.

bilateral sharp and reconstruction sharp are very sharp chroma scaler i highly doubt any other image scaler is as "sharp" even through it is hard to compare but chroma is usually very blurry and a sharp chroma scaler can be a really good choice.

[Siso]

time to move to the next guide or better your eyes.

super XBr 150 is a fine chroma scaler but for luma i would not use 150.

bilateral sharp and reconstruction sharp are very sharp chroma scaler i highly doubt any other image scaler is as "sharp" even through it is hard to compare but chroma is usually very blurry and a sharp chroma scaler can be a really good choice.

Like NGU AA, NGU Sharp, NGU Standart?

I'm talking about upscaling only, not image doubling.

[huhn]

that's more complicated and "image doubling" is "removed" many months ago. just to be clear NGU is a x2 or x4 scaler liek super XBr.

it is not a good idea to use NGU very high on chroma but NGU low on image scaling.

you should always put more processing power to luma than chroma but that has little to nothing todo with sharpness and more about general quality.

[Siso]

that's more complicated and "image doubling" is "removed" many months ago. just to be clear NGU is a x2 or x4 scaler liek super XBr.

it is not a good idea to use NGU very high on chroma but NGU low on image scaling.

you should always put more processing power to luma than chroma but that has little to nothing todo with sharpness and more about general quality.

That's good, my scaling ratio is 1.5 tho, I'm upscaling to 2560x1080p.

[ryrynz]

I think that statement is wise advise to follow, but everyone has their own preferences. Sharper chroma can result in more pop in the picture, some might think this is essentially helping to recreate the vibrancy of lost chroma but I think that is a touch misguided. I prefer the chroma to match the luma's appearance and have settled on NGU AA (anything but VH ideally) as a result which IMO looks quite natural.

[Siso]

I think that statement is wise advise to follow, but everyone has their own preferences. Sharper chroma can result in more pop in the picture, some might think this is essentially helping to recreate the vibrancy of lost chroma but I think that is a touch misguided. I prefer the chroma to match the luma's appearance and have settled on NGU AA (anything but VH ideally) as a result which IMO looks quite natural.

I kinda like NGU-AA too, will make some tests. :D

[el Filou]

Im on the Limit with my GTX 950 2GB.. it uses around 1500-1800MB VRAM -.-

maybe i better switch to 1050TI with 4GB..
What system platform are you using?
VRAM can definitely be limiting with 4K, but I have a 1050 Ti and I also have issues like you do with DXVA CB or CUVID with 4K, it's barely reaching 40 fps compared to 180 with DXVA Native. The PCI Express interface utilization never goes above 15% so that's not the problem, NVIDIA power profile doesn't change anything either even when set to Prefer High Performance.
I guess it's my platform that is limiting the bandwidth between system RAM and graphics card (Core 2 with DDR2)

[sauma144]

@madshi
If automating custom resolution creation and optimization is possible, why not doing the same for everything else with a global "let madVR decide" based on the current GPU specs and if it's on battery or not for laptops?

[pirlouy]

This is not the kind of option you can enable that easily. For most users, the best option is to use native resolution (60Hz) with smooth motion enabled (it is not enabled by default because it has certain cost on GPU ressources).
Using 24Hz depends on the display panel. madVR would have to have a database of all screens ID to choose for users: it is impossible.

[Asmodian]

I think a more realistic way to implement this, while still somewhat crazy, is to have a complete performance <-> quality sequence for every performance v.s. quality option. Watch the rendering times and move down the list until Xms below the frame time, then save those settings for that frame rate and resolution until the user triggers "re-tune" or something. :)

I would argue the this is not worth doing until madVR is feature complete, making and maintaining that list is more work the more madVR changes. However, I am sure it would be a lot of fun to discuss the ordering of that list. Is there a different list for different GPUs due to differences in the the relative performance impact of each option? :D

Also, you still have to leave smooth motion and refresh rate up to the user.

[sauma144]

This should be part of a "proper" installer, not really inside madVR.

[sauma144]

Is it still the weekend in Germany? No new madVR build. :(

[madshi]

Sorry, I need a bit longer, had a busy week. Maybe in 1-3 days, or maybe next weekend, don't know for sure.

[sauma144]

What's wrong? Is it about custom resolutions?

[nevcairiel]

Just be patient and let him work. Every minute he responds to you is a minute less he has to spend on madVR awesomeness. :)

[sauma144]

:rolleyes:

[70MM]

bilateral sharp and reconstruction sharp are very sharp chroma scaler i highly doubt any other image scaler is as "sharp" even through it is hard to compare but chroma is usually very blurry and a sharp chroma scaler can be a really good choice.
Huhn it sounds like you prefer bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp, stating they maybe the two best for chroma upscaling... my question is.

Im currently using Nnedi 128 for chroma and NGU sharp High for luma on a very large 145" diag. screen with the JVC X9500. My render times are 19.80ms for BDs upscaling everything to 4K, using the 1080Ti card.

Someone else said that bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp probably give the most pop when used for chroma upscaling, I like that idea. Im going to try them out but I dont understand what the different settings do...

e.g. Reconstruction has soft, sharp, placebo, sharp AR, placebo AR, which do you think is better to use in this case?

Which one do you prefer bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp?

Many thanks...

[ryrynz]

Im currently using Nnedi 128 for chroma


Waste of processing power imo. Switch to 64 neurons or NGU AA. High setting is best bang for buck.
Have you compared chroma upscalers at all?

[70MM]

ryrynz, Is NGU sharp is used for chroma upscaling, is it as sharp or as good as bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp for chroma upscaling?

[ryrynz]

Not a fan of either of those for chroma, what determines if they're good to me is how natural they look and how balanced the colors are. I could tell you which out of those three I prefer, that's about it.. Without looking into it right now I'm guessing my preference would be NGU Sharp.

NGU sharp (Luma) looks good on Adywan's recent ESB release BTW.

[70MM]

NGU sharp (Luma) looks good on Adywan's recent ESB release BTW.
I cant understand why, but Im getting lots of repeated frames when I use any NGU settings for chroma upscaling, even the lowest. Luma is set to NGU sharp high.

If I use Nnedi 128 for chroma I get no repeated frames and rendering is approx 20ms.

I also get repeated frames with bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp for chroma upscaling. The only one I can use without repeated frames is Nnedi 128, I wonder whats wrong...? My card is 1080Ti and upscaling everything to 4K.

[huhn]

i prefer super xbr 100 for 1080p screens and super xbr 150 for UHD screen with a 1080p source as a chroma scaler.

[Siso]

I cant understand why, but Im getting lots of repeated frames when I use any NGU settings for chroma upscaling, even the lowest. Luma is set to NGU sharp high.

If I use Nnedi 128 for chroma I get no repeated frames and rendering is approx 20ms.

I also get repeated frames with bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp for chroma upscaling. The only one I can use without repeated frames is Nnedi 128, I wonder whats wrong...? My card is 1080Ti and upscaling everything to 4K.

Repeated frames you mean delayed frames? Since I started to use NGU AA low or medium, I'm getting one delayed frame randomly, sometimes I got it, sometimes I don't...It's very weird, my rendering times are around ~ 13-15 ms. I'm using windowed overlay.

[70MM]

sorry I meant to say dropped frames.
It goes crazy dropping frames if I use any of the NGU settings for chroma upscaling. Also goes crazy dropping frames with bilateral sharp or reconstruction sharp for chroma upscaling.

The only one that runs perect without dropped frames for chroma upscaling for me is Nnedi 128.
So I have to use the above with luma upscaling on NGU sharp high. 4K 1080Ti card.

I would like to now use NGU for chroma upscaling but something is wrong, all it does is drop frames...
Can someone help me trouble shoot please?

[ryrynz]

i prefer super xbr 100 for 1080p screens and super xbr 150 for UHD screen with a 1080p source as a chroma scaler.

Yeah 100 is solid, 150 was too sharp for my tastes, but I'm only upscaling to 1080.

[jkauff]

The only one that runs perect without dropped frames for chroma upscaling for me is Nnedi 128.
So I have to use the above with luma upscaling on NGU sharp high. 4K 1080Ti card.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm mis-remembering, but I was under the impression that NNEDI does not even run on Nvidia 10-series cards because of a change in the drivers. Maybe what you're seeing is no chroma upscaling at all using NNEDI, vs. whatever load NGU puts on your GPU.

If that's the case, and you can't even run the less demanding algorithms for chroma upscaling, there must be other settings you're using that are maxing out your 1080Ti.

[huhn]

nnedi3 works fine with nvidia 10xx cards.

if you have a problem with rendertimes post a OSD screen plz.

[foozoor]

Hello madshi, I am wondering if you checked the mpv area these days.

There were a lot of huge improvements:

- Nnedi3 shaders based on MPDN ones are really faster than on madVR.
- Igv's single-pass AdaptiveSharpen variant is really better and faster than madVR one.
- Igv's SSimSuperRes variant based on MPDN one is totally destroying SuperRes upscale enhancer in madVR.
- Bjin's RAVU prescaler/doubler is easily 4x faster (test/ravu-r3-smoothtest1.hook) than NGU-AA High with same/better result.

I would like to know your opinion about it and see performance improvements in the next madVR build.

I tested your madCustomRes standalone application and it really works as expected. :)
I don't know what is the optimize button for, it would be great to explain.

EDIT: I am not trolling.

[Siso]

Hello madshi, I am wondering if you checked the mpv area these days.

There were a lot of huge improvements:

- Nnedi3 shaders based on MPDN ones are really faster than on madVR.
- Igv's single-pass AdaptiveSharpen variant is really better and faster than madVR one.
- Igv's SSimSuperRes variant based on MPDN one is totally destroying SuperRes upscale enhancer in madVR.
- Bjin's RAVU prescaler/doubler is easily 4x faster (test/ravu-r3-smoothtest1.hook) than NGU-AA High with same/better result.

I would like to know your opinion about it and see performance improvements in the next madVR build.

I tested your madCustomRes standalone application and it really works as expected. :)
I don't know what is the optimize button for, it would be great to explain.

EDIT: I am not trolling.

Useful info.