madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted) [Archive] - Page 27

cyberbeing

4th June 2009, 15:59

With games I must use monitor calibration wizard to force use of .icm in games.
Monitor Calibration Wizard doesn't create or use .icm/.icc profiles. It just modifies the graphics card lut and has an option to force the lut to be unchanged. There aren't any applications that globally force the use of .icm/.icc profiles in everything. This is the sole reason why people recommend against buying wide gamut monitors for your common user, since they will show strong oversaturated colors in everything that is not color managed.

When I tested Monitor Calibration Wizard, it definitely worked with madVR in WinXP SP3, which I confirmed with Gretag Macbeth's Calibration Tester app. From the looks of that app, I have doubts it officially supports Vista, though it may work.

I am starting to believe you have no idea what a .icm/.icc profile is. The graphics card lut and an .icm/.icc profile are two completely separate, but complementary things. The lut is handled from the graphics card directly, and is global. A number of applications as well as your graphics card control panel can modify this. The purpose of calibrating your lut is for reaching a specified gamma, and a specific color temperature. Without a calibration puck, neither can be done accurately. You may be able to get the gamma somewhat close by hand, but getting an accurate color temperature is near impossible because of how our eyes work.

Your .icm/.icc profile is only ever used in color managed applications like Adobe Photoshop and a few others which I could likely count on one hand. An .icm/.icc profile's purpose is to map out the usable gamut of your monitor. The .icm/.icc profiles provided by your manufacturer are near useless, and similar to this is using Adobe Gamma to create a icm profile. Unless you own a calibration puck (cost ~$150-$2000+), any .icm/.icc profile you make is next to useless, but it sounds like you are just confused and aren't making a .icm/.icc profile to begin with.

Also keep in mind that if you want to use the color management features that madVR currently has, or will make available in the future, you will want to own a calibration puck.

FoLLgoTT

4th June 2009, 20:43

Your .icm/.icc profile is only ever used in color managed applications like Adobe Photoshop and a few others which I could likely count on one hand.

This is not quite correct. X-Rite's Eye One Match 3 for example can create ICC profiles which are loaded at startup of the operating system and affects the whole desktop. I used it under Vista a time ago and measured the results with HCFR. They were quite useful.
Generally under Vista you can assign any ICC profile to your monitor. I don't know if this also works under XP.

Btw, the color correction of the ICC profile I used was written directly to the DAC. Maybe it depends on the format you can choose in Match 3 (e.g. LUT based). I checked it with VideoEqualizer and the LUT of the graphics card was changed when the profile was loaded.

honai

5th June 2009, 00:35

This is the sole reason why people recommend against buying wide gamut monitors for your common user, since they will show strong oversaturated colors in everything that is not color managed.

Not quite true. On my 4770, using a wide gamut Eizo S2231, there is an option in CCC 9.5 to observe gamut information from the display and adjust colors for it - voila, no more oversaturated colors.

leeperry

5th June 2009, 00:40

you can indeed specify the gamut in the EDID/windows .inf file, but I was under the impression that this info wasn't used at all...good that some ppl can actually code proper EDID!

cyberbeing

5th June 2009, 00:57

This is not quite correct. X-Rite's Eye One Match 3 for example can create ICC profiles which are loaded at startup of the operating system and affects the whole desktop.
I think you are misunderstanding how ICC profiles work as well. This is because the calibrated lut curve is included in the ICC profile. An ICC profile isn't required to load a calibrated lut though. Just so you know, Logo Calibration Loader is the lut loader for X-Rite products, and as the name lut loader suggests, all it does is load your calibrated lut. Windows color management also has a lut loader.

To be clear, when you calibrate your monitor you are creating a custom lut curve for your graphics card (or monitor if it has a hardware lut which can be calibrated). At this point the calibration step is complete. Next comes the creation of the ICC profile. Your app then measures various colors across the spectrum to determine your monitor gamut and creates an ICC profile from this data.

Not quite true. On my 4770, using a wide gamut Eizo S2231, there is an option in CCC 9.5 to observe gamut information from the display and adjust colors for it - voila, no more oversaturated colors.
Interesting. I wonder if this is a ATI only thing, since I've never heard of such a thing with NVIDIA cards. I assume it only affects the desktop? If it affects everything, it must really screw up color managed apps, unless there is a way to add exceptions.

you can indeed specify the gamut in the EDID/windows .inf file, but I was under the impression that this info wasn't used at all...good that some ppl can actually code proper EDID!
That was my impression as well, but I guess ATI came up with a (Vista/Win7 only?) solution.

leeperry

5th June 2009, 00:59

BTW madshi, at some point could you give an option to set different LUT's for different displays? based on the windows display name is cool! HR does it for the convergence setttings I think, it will remember your settings depending on the display name :)

giving an option to open a command line, like "argyllcms bla.cal" would be awesome too.

and an option to fake the GUID, so I could give mVR EVR's GUID and use it in KMP on XP....would be total awesomeness, but I understand you don't want to broaden mVR's compatiblity for some reason. we're talking about the ultimate VR, so it should be possible to force it in ANY app(just like you can force Reclock in ANY app).

MPC is just way too dumbed down when you've tasted KMP....and KMP works amazingly well w/ Reclock(dynamic duo I tell you! :eek:)

KMP is 1.6 million downloads on CNET : http://download.cnet.com/The-KMPlayer/3000-13632_4-10659939.html

and the company who's running it is close to bankruptcy, so updates are most likely never going to happen :(

http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/4087/kmpna3.jpg

honai

5th June 2009, 01:00

Yes, EDID, couldn't remember the abbreviation.

At least it works with the 4770/CCC 9.5/Eizo S2231 combination. I wouldn't vouch that it works for others, but the claim that with wide-gamut displays you'd always get oversaturated colors is refuted. ;)

cyberbeing

5th June 2009, 01:38

I wouldn't vouch that it works for others, but the claim that with wide-gamut displays you'd always get oversaturated colors is refuted. ;)

You should make a post on HardForum's Display forum (http://www.hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=78) to educate them. It seems everybody there believes that there is no way to cure the oversaturation issue on wide gamut monitors and strongly recommend against wide gamut for that reason.

ryrynz

5th June 2009, 06:50

Yes. MPC-HC when cannot use the selected video renderer uses the default one. Check if you are outputting in YV12...

madVR is selected for output in MPC-HC, the ffdshow OSD tells me YV12 is being outputted. No madVR option under filters.

Hypernova

5th June 2009, 08:04

madVR is selected for output in MPC-HC, the ffdshow OSD tells me YV12 is being outputted. No madVR option under filters.

If madVR is used, it must be there. Are you positive that you're using madVR? Like, do you see madVR stat when you press ctrl+j ?

Peuj

5th June 2009, 08:46

...
KMP is 1.6 million downloads on CNET : http://download.cnet.com/The-KMPlayer/3000-13632_4-10659939.html

and the company who's running it is close to bankruptcy, so updates are most likely never going to happen :(

A need KMP build is coming soon but I don't know if it will support yet madVR.

ryrynz

5th June 2009, 10:12

If madVR is used, it must be there. Are you positive that you're using madVR? Like, do you see madVR stat when you press ctrl+j ?

A reinstall has fixed the problem, I can now change the settings.

I get errors at start-up stating there problems when creating 16bit GPU textures for chroma and luma and says it's changing to 8bit.
I have tried selecting 10bit and I get the same messages.

Any ideas why I am getting these errors? I'm running a Geforce 8800 GTS with the latest drivers.

leeperry

5th June 2009, 11:09

A need KMP build is coming soon but I don't know if it will support yet madVR.
sounds good to me! but anyway soon or later there'll be a PotPlayer english.ini....so just like Reclock, it would be most welcome to be able to force mVR in any app(BSPlayer/VLC/etc etc ;))

and it'd be child's play for madshi to add it in the .ini, I tried to hexedit mVR but failed.

MPC is far from being the be-all/end-all of PC playback(ugly GUI, no seamless playback, not too good w/ Reclock in non-exclusive mode, etc etc) :o

FoLLgoTT

5th June 2009, 12:27

To be clear, when you calibrate your monitor you are creating a custom lut curve for your graphics card (or monitor if it has a hardware lut which can be calibrated). At this point the calibration step is complete. Next comes the creation of the ICC profile. Your app then measures various colors across the spectrum to determine your monitor gamut and creates an ICC profile from this data.

Thanks for the clarification. So only the 1D LUT contained in the ICC profile is loaded and not the gamut correction, right?

hdboy

7th June 2009, 16:49

Egh

7th June 2009, 17:10

what's the hardware requirement for madVR? I have a 7600GT on win7, using MPC-HC svn 1137, built-in madVR, and the framerate looks like 10fps. Looks like those old claymation films. Am I using some wrong settings? thanks.

(I normally use haali renderer, but I get "Macrovision fails" when using haali, even with unencrypted DVD.)

7600GT is weaker than 7900GTX by some margin. But still you should be able to watch at least SD video. Check your settings, and what is your upscale/downscale?

Thunderbolt8

7th June 2009, 20:04

what's the hardware requirement for madVR? I have a 7600GT on win7, using MPC-HC svn 1137, built-in madVR, and the framerate looks like 10fps.I used to have a 7600GT as well and can safely tell you it's too slow for madVR :P

mitchmalibu

7th June 2009, 21:11

Koguna

7th June 2009, 21:21

No news of x64 version ?

Really need it :)

Hypernova

7th June 2009, 23:10

I did a search through this thread about madVR with directvobsub, but I still can't figure out how to enable those 2 together. I'm using the latest version of mpchc, the latest cccp and the latest coreavc. I tried switching the order in the external filters page in mpc, but I still can't activate madVR with dvb. I only get one of the two. When dvb is activated, mpc is using "video renderer" (vmr7 I suppose, not sure though).

Thanks

Here was my answer.

It seems to me that you have to choose madVR at output page only. I always choose madVR using External Filter page and set it to prefer, but this seem to not work with VSFiler.

allak

8th June 2009, 10:11

I did a search through this thread about madVR with directvobsub, but I still can't figure out how to enable those 2 together. I'm using the latest version of mpchc, the latest cccp and the latest coreavc. I tried switching the order in the external filters page in mpc, but I still can't activate madVR with dvb. I only get one of the two. When dvb is activated, mpc is using "video renderer" (vmr7 I suppose, not sure though).

The same here.

As far as I have understood, is because the MPC internal Video Decoder outputs YUY2, while MadVR only accepts YV12.

I think that it only works if you also use FFDshow for video decoding, and force the output to YV12 Only.

Me, I'm just waiting for MadVR to explicitly support the MPC internal subtitle renderer.

mitchmalibu

8th June 2009, 13:14

Here was my answer.

I did try that before, but it didn't work.

As far as I have understood, is because the MPC internal Video Decoder outputs YUY2, while MadVR only accepts YV12.

I am using coreavc with yv12 output only to decode the video, so mpc internal decoder shouldn't kick in.

6233638

8th June 2009, 21:27

Anyone figure out how to avoid that macrovision error with DVDs yet?

Even tried ripping the disc with AnyDVD and it still gives me an error.

tetsuo55

8th June 2009, 21:35

Anyone figure out how to avoid that macrovision error with DVDs yet?

Even tried ripping the disc with AnyDVD and it still gives me an error.It's something madshi will have to fix, a workaround is to remux to MKV, you can use MakeMKV for that. I did that to all my DVD's and now they work fine

(The error is caused by a connection problem between the windows DVD splitter and madVR)

cyberbeing

9th June 2009, 07:39

Anyone figure out how to avoid that macrovision error with DVDs yet?
It's something madshi will have to fix...
(The error is caused by a connection problem between the windows DVD splitter and madVR)
What Macrovision error? On my PC, every DVD I've tried worked just fine with madVR. I'm on WinXP SP3 and I'm not doing anything special.

iSunrise

9th June 2009, 09:46

(The error is caused by a connection problem between the windows DVD splitter and madVR)
Can you be a little more specific? (I´m not sure madshi already knows this, so we should give him more helpful feedback.)

I can personally reproduce that macrovision error on Vista x64 SP1. It happens on all of the dozen retail DVDs I tested, which I own, and strangely enough, it also happens when the DVD itself isn´t even macrovision protected (tested with some free DVDs that are available on the net). Since I´ve found no way to circumvent this error, there must be something in the OS that handles DVD playback like "a protected path", where only EVR is allowed (yes, EVR works perfectly fine), because EVR is also a part of that path and part of the OS itself. (And from what I know, Vista introduced a protected media path. This can´t just be a coincidence.)

However, madVR isn´t the only application that throws that error, Haali´s renderer throws the same error when I want to use it with MPC-HC or ZoomPlayer. Again: The only (more advanced) renderer that works perfectly fine with DVDs under Vista x64 is EVR.

Now, by looking at the posts in this thread, everyone who has that problem uses either Vista x64 or Windows 7 x64 and it looks like everything below that, like WinXP (32bit) work perfectly fine.

I hope this will get resolved eventually, because I already like madVR very much and apart from the awesome gammut and gamma correction, it´s upscaling and chroma resampling really make a difference, _especially_ when watching DVDs or SD-content. On HD-content, the differences (WRT upscaling and resampling) are of course still there, but clearly a lot less visible.

tetsuo55

9th June 2009, 09:50

What Macrovision error? On my PC, every DVD I've tried worked just fine with madVR. I'm on WinXP SP3 and I'm not doing anything special.The behaviour differers from version to version of the DVD splitter (there are many many versions out there)Can you be a little more specific? (I´m not sure madshi already knows this, so we should give him more helpful feedback.)

I can personally reproduce that macrovision error on Vista x64 SP1. It happens on all of the dozen retail DVDs I tested and strangely enough, it also happens when the DVD itself isn´t even macrovision protected (tested with some free DVDs that are available on the net). Since I´ve found no way to circumvent this error, there must be something in the OS that handles DVD playback like "a protected path", where only EVR is allowed (yes, EVR works perfectly fine), because EVR is also a part of that path and part of the OS itself. (And from what I know, Vista introduced a protected media path. This can´t just be a coincidence.)

However, madVR isn´t the only application that throws that error, Haali´s renderer throws the same error when I want so use it with MPC-HC or ZoomPlayer. Again: The only (more advanced) renderer that works perfectly fine with DVDs under Vista x64 is EVR.

Now, by looking at the posts in this thread, everyone who has that problem uses either Vista x64 or Windows 7 x64 and it looks like everything below that, like WinXP (32bit) work perfectly fine.

I hope this will get resolved eventually, because I already like madVR very much and apart from the awesome gammut and gamma correction, it´s upscaling and chroma resampling really make a difference, _especially_ when watching DVDs or SD-content. On HD-content, the differences are of course still there, but clearly a lot less visible.The DVD navigator is probably expecting the renderer to give it some kind of feedback, related to copy protection, not all versions of the DVD navigator need this confirmation. I don't know enough about it to explain it in any more detail.
An open source DVD navigator would be a good alternative too.

cyberbeing

9th June 2009, 20:23

The behaviour differers from version to version of the DVD splitter (there are many many versions out there)
Can the WinXP SP3 DVD Navigator (qdvd.dll (6.05.2600.5512) (http://www.mediafire.com/?2zymzgnni0v)) be registered on Vista and solve these problems or was Vista's DVD Playback system changed too much?

tetsuo55

9th June 2009, 20:25

try it..?

cyberbeing

9th June 2009, 20:28

try it..?

You can't? I don't have a Vista machine handy to try it myself.

tetsuo55

9th June 2009, 20:49

sorry i do not use XP nor Vista (windows 7 x64 here)

therealjoeblow

9th June 2009, 21:28

lych_necross

10th June 2009, 07:46

The behaviour differers from version to version of the DVD splitter (there are many many versions out there)The DVD navigator is probably expecting the renderer to give it some kind of feedback, related to copy protection, not all versions of the DVD navigator need this confirmation. I don't know enough about it to explain it in any more detail.
An open source DVD navigator would be a good alternative too.

Is it possible to use the DVD navigator from PowerDVD, WinDVD, or Nvidia Purevideo in place of the default Microsoft navigator. You whats really funny about the macrovision failure error is that if you create a custom graph in graphstudio using madVR, dvds works fine on my machine everytime.

tetsuo55

10th June 2009, 08:52

Is it possible to use the DVD navigator from PowerDVD, WinDVD, or Nvidia Purevideo in place of the default Microsoft navigator. You whats really funny about the macrovision failure error is that if you create a custom graph in graphstudio using madVR, dvds works fine on my machine everytime.I don't think you can, but i haven't seen any real all-inclusive tests being done.

iSunrise

10th June 2009, 09:22

You whats really funny about the macrovision failure error is that if you create a custom graph in graphstudio using madVR, dvds works fine on my machine everytime.
Interesting, never tried a custom graph. Could you please post a screenshot of your graph somewhere, so that I can verify it on my system? Thanks.

therealjoeblow

10th June 2009, 14:24

Does anyone know if madVR will work well with the AMD 780G/ATI Radeon 3200 IGP (that shares system RAM)? Or is it really only going to work on a higher-end stand alone card with its own video RAM. I don't have the machine with the IGP at hand to test it ATM.

Thanks

Forget it, I answered my own question. NO, it doesn't work. The IGP is way too underpowered, it's just a jumpy mess of independent frames displayed instead of a fluid video.

NEW Q: Does anyone know if the Radeon 4550 (fanless) would have enough horsepower?

grumbl

10th June 2009, 14:36

NEW Q: Does anyone know if the Radeon 4550 (fanless) would have enough horsepower?

I've got a Club 3D Fanless 4550 here in my htpc, works just fine.

lunkens

10th June 2009, 18:18

Wow I should just say that a 4670 was on its threshold of this compability. I have seen some queue drops every now and then with this card. This is without rescaling native 1080p->1920x1080

It's great that someone with less power than that can verify it's working.

@grumbl do you resize your videos. One thing to consider is that downscaling is the hardest quest with mVR (If I remember correctly) So for 1080p material on a lower resolution monitor @ another Hz it can be troublesome. Just try it if you want.

lych_necross

11th June 2009, 07:26

Interesting, never tried a custom graph. Could you please post a screenshot of your graph somewhere, so that I can verify it on my system? Thanks.
Here you go. I uploaded two versions that both work great on my system. The filter with the obscured name is the Nvidia Video Decoder (part of their Purevideo DVD decoder package).

Leak

11th June 2009, 15:11

Here you go. I uploaded two versions that both work great on my system. The filter with the obscured name is the Nvidia Video Decoder (part of their Purevideo DVD decoder package).
Of course the DVD navigator filter isn't actually being used when opening a VOB directly, so of course it'll work... :rolleyes:

http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/5721/headofthenavigator.png

np: The Orb - Little Fluffy Clouds (Adventures Beyond The Ultraworld)

tetsuo55

11th June 2009, 15:18

I watched a remuxed to MKV DVD yesterday.

I use default settings except that the 2nd and 3rd filters are set to lanczos4.

What i noticed is that on pans bright area's (like reflections or light bars) will flash during the pan, either on/off or moving around.

kostik

12th June 2009, 10:05

is there a chance for a new release this weekend?
thanks!

Ryokurin

12th June 2009, 12:58

Is the first link in the thread the link to the current version? I know a while back I installed .4 and it worked and I could have sworn that it showed as .4 in the properties, but after I recently downloaded it again to see if it updated and I haven't been able to get it to load. If I manually attempt to pull up the filter properties it reports as .1, and the link to .4 in the thread is to the same file.

Was I mistaken that the version number in properties was updated, or is it likely my problem is with something else?

yesgrey

12th June 2009, 14:18

The current version is 0.10, which is higher than 0.4. It would have been better if the 0.4 was labeled 0.04, but it wasn't...

markanini

13th June 2009, 01:15

I've been in the market for a new video card to improve video quality and lower cpu usage. Had my mind set on Radeon hd4650 which got the highest HQV score among modern cards. But I suppose it's better to look at a card with good shader performance and cuda to reach my goals with madvr? Am I right in my assumptions so far?

lych_necross

13th June 2009, 07:12

Of course the DVD navigator filter isn't actually being used when opening a VOB directly, so of course it'll work... :rolleyes:

I have never been able to access the DVD navigator interface (to load dvds) from within graphstudio. Nvidia's and Cyberlink's navigator has an interface for loading dvd content, but it only connects with their decoders afaik. Also, I can't seem to get the build DVD graph feature to work, so I just loaded the vob file directly, yes.

Does anyone know why Microsoft's renderers always work with the DVD navigator and 3rd party renderers seem to fail. It can't be because of the presence, or absence, of macrovision protection. Vista Media Center plays unprotected DVDs just fine.

ajp_anton

13th June 2009, 07:39

But I suppose it's better to look at a card with good shader performance and cuda to reach my goals with madvr? Am I right in my assumptions so far?Shader performance yes, Cuda no.

Leak

13th June 2009, 10:40

Also, I can't seem to get the build DVD graph feature to work, so I just loaded the vob file directly, yes.
Well, looking at the code I think I get an idea why it doesn't work... :D
void CGraphView::OnFileRenderdvd()
{
}
I think the "support for [...]DVD[...] graphs" means (correctly) that you can connect to a remote graph that's playing a DVD...

But yeah, no "DVD navigator" in the graph means you're not actually playing back a DVD but only playing some VOB files that might or might not happen to be stored on a DVD. And that should work just fine.

np: Autechre - Altibzz (Quaristice)

grumbl

13th June 2009, 17:06

@lunkens: I usually don't have to downscale (got a sony full hd tv and a 27" dell), so I can't tell if the card is fast enough for downscaling.

mr.duck

13th June 2009, 20:51

I'm getting dissapointing results with madVR and interlaced video. I'm using DScaler5 set to force bob deinterlace. I don't understand why madVR would stop the deinterlacing from working. Can anyone explain?

Here is madVR with some scrolling text...

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/7114/madvr.png

Here it is with EVR. The Video is deinterlaced as it should be...

http://img196.imageshack.us/img196/6853/evr.png

I double checked DScaler settings and all settings are the same except madVR vs EVR.