madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Klaus1189]

I have no repeating frames out of the box, well 11,6 hours, but enough for me on 23.976 files ;)

[shaolin95]

I have no repeating frames out of the box, well 11,6 hours, but enough for me on 23.976 files ;)

Great but not everyone gets 23.976 by setting the card to 23Hz, that's my point. Good for you ;)

[Klaus1189]

There are custom resolutions that can do it for you as well ;)

[shaolin95]

There are custom resolutions that can do it for you as well ;)

Did you read my post??? I am fully aware of that. Now can you give it a break? ;)

[Klaus1189]

Of course, let me know if you want to know anything, perhaps I can assist.

[shaolin95]

Of course, let me know if you want to know anything, perhaps I can assist.

Well, if you can tell me how to do it with CRU for my RS520 JVC then THAT will help me a lot. Or via Registry. I want to see if that allows me to still use the 12 bit option and bypass that dumb Nvidia bug :/

[Klaus1189]

Wait for other users like Manni, he has a JVC projector and knows what he is doing.
Perhaps another JVC owner can also help.

Why do you want 12 bit output? 8 bit is fine.

[shaolin95]

Wait for other users like Manni, he has a JVC projector and knows what he is doing.
Perhaps another JVC owner can also help.

Why do you want 12 bit output? 8 bit is fine.

Well I need to check with some tests scenes but I would expect banding at 8bit vs 12bits. I mean, there has to be a difference between 12 and 8 and 4K content, or not really? Just kind of feels like a waste if my display can do 12bits (well 10) to go with 8 lol
If not, I can just roll with what I have as it is with the Nvidia control panel custom resolution that get some close to 23.976

[THU22]

This is what you need to do in CRU, it is very simple. Make sure you export the original EDID first, in case you mess something up.

You can basically delete everything in "Detailed resolutions" and add the ones you need. You should only have two or three in there (but even the third one might not work sometimes). Most of common resolutions are stored in the extension blocks, so you will not lose anything by doing this. Resolutions you add here will appear as PC resolutions in the nvidia control panel.
23.975 works best in my case, it could be different in yours. Experiment.

12-bit works with this method, unlike custom resolution in the nvidia control panel.



https://i.imgur.com/liydOAO.jpg

[shaolin95]

This is what you need to do in CRU, it is very simple. Make sure you export the original EDID first, in case you mess something up.

You can basically delete everything in "Detailed resolutions" and add the ones you need. You should only have two or three in there (but even the third one might not work sometimes). Most of common resolutions are stored in the extension blocks, so you will not lose anything by doing this. Resolutions you add here will appear as PC resolutions in the nvidia control panel.
23.975 works best in my case, it could be different in yours. Experiment.

12-bit works with this method, unlike custom resolution in the nvidia control panel.



https://i.imgur.com/liydOAO.jpg

Awesome!!!
I will try that and report back.
Thank you so much! :thanks:

[tp4tissue]

ANYONE know how to autmatically switch to different 3Dluts between rec2020/ dcip3 ?

What profile variable can I set. currently it will only select the rec2020 lut if i insert one, always ignoring the p3 lut

[SirMaster]

I get about 1 hour per drop/repeat with custom res set to 23.976, but have so far been unable to improve on that.

[SirMaster]

ANYONE know how to autmatically switch to different 3Dluts between rec2020/ dcip3 ?

What profile variable can I set. currently it will only select the rec2020 lut if i insert one, always ignoring the p3 lut

You normally don't need multiple 3DLUTs, but if you really want, just make another madVR profile for the calibration tab and load the other 3DLUT into it and then set up the rule or hotkey for the profile to switch to the other profile.

[THU22]

I get about 1 hour per drop/repeat with custom res set to 23.976, but have so far been unable to improve on that.

I do not think it is possible to improve on that with a fixed refresh and vsync.

But I wonder if VRR can help with this.

[tp4tissue]

You normally don't need multiple 3DLUTs, but if you really want, just make another madVR profile for the calibration tab and load the other 3DLUT into it and then set up the rule or hotkey for the profile to switch to the other profile.

I very much do need a profile for each, because the argyll cms produces slightly different color shades depending what you set as source colorspace. Most of the time, you can't tell, but I've come across of few instances where it looked quite off.

Could you explain how to setup the hotkey to switch to profile ?

What is the RULE, variable for the difference between the file reporting rec2020 and p3 primaries ? that was my original question.

[shaolin95]

Regarding calibrating for 3D Lut I saw this step "In DisplayCAL, choose the “3D LUT for madVR (D65, Rec. 709 / 1886)" Shouldnt I be using 2020 though if I am going to be watching 4K movies?
Thanks!

[SirMaster]

Regarding calibrating for 3D Lut I saw this step "In DisplayCAL, choose the “3D LUT for madVR (D65, Rec. 709 / 1886)" Shouldnt I be using 2020 though if I am going to be watching 4K movies?
Thanks!

In theory yes, you should use the color space of the content you will be sending to your projector.

But the problem is, your display is nowhere near full BT.2020 color gamut coverage and if you try to make a 3DLUT targeting BT.2020 you will get some posterization at high color saturation.

You will have to try it out for your self and see what results you can get.

Most of us who are calibrating wide color gamut calibrate for DCI-P3 as our projector can do 100% DCI-P3 or at least very close. And then madVR converts the the video BT.2020 into DCI-P3 so it matches the calibration and all is well.

[SirMaster]

I very much do need a profile for each, because the argyll cms produces slightly different color shades depending what you set as source colorspace. Most of the time, you can't tell, but I've come across of few instances where it looked quite off.

Could you explain how to setup the hotkey to switch to profile ?

What is the RULE, variable for the difference between the file reporting rec2020 and p3 primaries ? that was my original question.

Where are you getting content that is mastered for DCI-P3 though?

All consumer video is rec709 or BT.2020.

In madVR you would right click on your display and choose "create profile group".

And then in the popup pick calibration. Then right click on on the new Profile Group 1 and do add profile.

Now you will have 2 calibration tabs. In the Profile 1 and Profile 2 tabs you can enter in a hotkey to select which profile to use that you can press while in your media player to switch.

Or in the Profile Group 1 tab you can write a profile auto select rule that looks like this:

if (hdr) "Profile 1"
else "Profile 2"

And in Profile 1 load a BT.2020 3DLUT and in Profile 2 load a rec709 3DLUT.

As for selecting between DCI-P3 and BT.2020 you can't do that with the standard madVR variables, but you could put "DCI-P3" somewhere in the filename for videos that you have that you know are DCI-P3 and then have madVR auto select the DCI-P3 3DLUT profile based on the filename.

Like:

if (fileName = "*DCI-P3*") "Profile 1"
else if (hdr) "Profile 2"
else "Profile 3"

Note that you can also rename Profile Groups and Profiles to make things easier to keep track of.

I use ArgyIICMS amd DisplayCAL and have seen no reason for multiple 3DLUTs.

I just have a single DCI-P3 3DLUT, and madVR automatically converts any source color space (like rec709 and BT.2020) into DCI-P3 which is what my 3DLUT and display is calibrated for so everything comes out looking correct and calibrated.

I have tried making a BT.2020 3DLUT but get noticeable posterization in saturated colors and have tried a rec709 3DLUT but that comes out with just as good of results as my DCI-P3 3DLUT so I just stick with the DCI-P3.

I guess if my display like a projector had a color filter for DCI-P3 mode that lowered the light output, I might want a separate rec709 3DLUT with the color filter disabled for a brighter picture, but my display is the same brightness in rec709 and DCI-P3 mode.

[shaolin95]

In theory yes, you should use the color space of the content you will be sending to your projector.

But the problem is, your display is nowhere near full BT.2020 color gamut coverage and if you try to make a 3DLUT targeting BT.2020 you will get some posterization at high color saturation.

You will have to try it out for your self and see what results you can get.

Most of us who are calibrating wide color gamut calibrate for DCI-P3 as our projector can do 100% DCI-P3 or at least very close. And then madVR converts the the video BT.2020 into DCI-P3 so it matches the calibration and all is well.
All reviews/test I have seen of the JVC RS520 puts it at least
97% of DCI-P3.
For example: "After calibration this RS520 was covering 97% of the DCI-P3 color gamut. With some extra calibration work, this RS520 could potentially get more coverage but it would be at the expense of color accuracy."

It has some special filter that helps with that.
I will try that first and see how it looks.
Thanks

[SirMaster]

All reviews/test I have seen of the JVC RS520 puts it at about 97% of DCI-P3.
For example: "After calibration this RS520 was covering 97% of the DCI-P3 color gamut. With some extra calibration work, this RS520 could potentially get more coverage but it would be at the expense of color accuracy."

It has some special filter that helps with that.
I will try that first and see how it looks.
Thanks

Yes DCI-P3 coverage is good, not BT.2020 which is what you said originally.

If you make a DCI-P3 3DLUT you should get good results. But a BT.2020 3DLUT will not yield good results as the coverage of that color gamut on the display is way too low.

[tp4tissue]

Yes DCI-P3 coverage is good, not BT.2020 which is what you said originally.

If you make a DCI-P3 3DLUT you should get good results. But a BT.2020 3DLUT will not yield good results as the coverage of that color gamut on the display is way too low.

If you take a gamut map to HDR content, you will see that it pushes some coordinates outside the DCI-p3 spectrum.

It's not the file that's causing problems, it's how argyll cms compresses the gamuts into whatever gamut the tv has. It does a different operation between P3 / Rec2020 as the source colorspace.

Depending on the movie, this may or may not work well. It's at the whim of Argyll, and its algorithm's interplay with the primaries of the TV.

You need both.

[shaolin95]

If you take a gamut map to HDR content, you will see that it pushes some coordinates outside the DCI-p3 spectrum.

It's not the file that's causing problems, it's how argyll cms compresses the gamuts into whatever gamut the tv has. It does a different operation between P3 / Rec2020 as the source colorspace.

Depending on the movie, this may or may not work well. It's at the whim of Argyll, and its algorithm's interplay with the primaries of the TV.

You need both.

So now I am confused if I should do 3Dlut for dcp , rec709 or just use my projector with the 2020 color space as it looks darn good to me eyes already 😁

[tp4tissue]

So now I am confused if I should do 3Dlut for dcp , rec709 or just use my projector with the 2020 color space as it looks darn good to me eyes already 😁

All 3, and under each 3 you would also create ones with other rendering intent such as colorimeteric, preserve saturation, saturation.

So, in total, probably 12-15 different luts that you play with depending on the movie.

This is all created from the same set of measurements, so you only need to measure once. < assuming you set these settings correctly >

None of them will look-bad, but for example one lut might push red into an orange/pink area (depending on the primary of the device). and you'd need a different lut which doesn't do that.

This is a long chain of color-interplay between file, cms, lut intent, madvr.

There's no one size fits all. It might work on someone else's tv, but not yours.

[shaolin95]

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11AfBdoY8EYFYiSACZCZlhB3Qirts0dYj/view?usp=drivesdkThis is what you need to do in CRU, it is very simple. Make sure you export the original EDID first, in case you mess something up.

You can basically delete everything in "Detailed resolutions" and add the ones you need. You should only have two or three in there (but even the third one might not work sometimes). Most of common resolutions are stored in the extension blocks, so you will not lose anything by doing this. Resolutions you add here will appear as PC resolutions in the nvidia control panel.
23.975 works best in my case, it could be different in yours. Experiment.

12-bit works with this method, unlike custom resolution in the nvidia control panel.



https://i.imgur.com/liydOAO.jpg
Looks like my projector is picky about the settings but finally found settings that worked and now playing star Wars was showing between 1.80 and 2 hours for repeated frames and 23.975... etc so I am very happy already. ��

https://drive.google.com/file/d/11AfBdoY8EYFYiSACZCZlhB3Qirts0dYj/view?usp=drivesdk
Now on some possible less exciting news I also found this piece of intriguing information from a poster on avsforum:
"Quick notes for nVidia HTPC/MadVR users [others please skip]: the magenta bug present on the rs500 at 4K60 8bits in 385.28 and for all 8bits resolutions in all recent drivers including the latest is gone, which is great news. This means 8bits becomes usable, and leaving MadVR dither to 8bits might be a better option than forcing 12bits out because levels are still borked in 12bits with recent drivers. [EDIT 01/03/19: I found the reason for this: there is a bug in the new models that force YCC422 behind madVR's back when RGB 12bits is selected in the nVidia CP. The driver sends RGB 12bits, the JVC reports RGB 12bits, but in reality it's forcing YCC422. JVC knows about the bug, so hopefully they will fix it in an upcoming f/w update]."

It is a post from last year...guess I need to figure out a way to test if this affects my projector. I hope not as he said new models and his post is from 2019 so maybe mine is not affected. Any suggestions where to see this issue more easily?

[SirMaster]

If you take a gamut map to HDR content, you will see that it pushes some coordinates outside the DCI-p3 spectrum.

It's not the file that's causing problems, it's how argyll cms compresses the gamuts into whatever gamut the tv has. It does a different operation between P3 / Rec2020 as the source colorspace.

Depending on the movie, this may or may not work well. It's at the whim of Argyll, and its algorithm's interplay with the primaries of the TV.

You need both.

Honestly I don't think anyone should be making a 3DLUT where the source color space is BT.2020 since no display comes close to reaching BT.2020.

I have tried making dozens of 3DLUTS for BT.2020 and every single one ends up with posterization near the gamut limits.

And for rendering intent, if you are trying to make a 3DLUT for a gamut that is wider than your display, the only ones that yield good results are the default "Absolute colorimetric with white point scaling" or maybe "Luminance matched appearance"

All the others are bad and lead to shrinking the native gamut even more and colors being much farther off.

Here is a measurement I took of what the 3DLUT does with 6 of the rendering intents for a display that cannot reach P3. Clearly the "Absolute colorimetric with white point scaling" is the best.

https://slow.pics/c/mldFlPW3

But unless your display can come within 10% of the native gamut you are targeting I would't target that gamut and would drop down to the lower one. Like if you are above 90% P3 then with enough patches you can get a result that's largely posterization free, otherwise if you are less than 90% then I wouldn't bother with P3 and would just stick to rec709.

And again I don't think anyone should be trying to target BT.2020 as that always leads to a lot of posterization no matter which rendering intent I used and for which display I tried making the 3DLUT for.

[tp4tissue]

I have tried making dozens of 3DLUTS for BT.2020 and every single one ends up with posterization near the gamut limits.



The posterization is SPECIFIC to each display, resultant of argyll's algorithm's interplay with the gamut.

It has NOTHING to do with specific underpinnings of rec2020 or dci p3.

It's not resultant of the size of the gamut.

On one of my displays, I get posterization on Red while setting dcip3 as source, while rec2020 doesn't have this problem.


You can fix this to some degree just by moving your primaries in the tv's cms a little left or right. But overcorrection might cause issues of its own. So In general, steer clear of tv / monitor CMS except for the tone curve.

You're also wrong about rendering intent.

Colorimetric w/ white point scaling actually shrinks the gamut the most. because it cuts off earlier along the primaries to preserve accuracy over saturation. But again, this depends on where the primaries are. it may not behave this way for all situations.

Preserve saturation, and saturation, gives you the widest use of the gamut, but can be oversaturated.

[omarank]

I don't think anyone should be trying to target BT.2020 as that always leads to a lot of posterization no matter which rendering intent I used and for which display I tried making the 3DLUT for.
Argyll or some color engines may cause LUT issues when directly targeting BT.2020, especially when the display's gamut is close to or smaller than DCI-P3. But technically, it is possible to create a BT.2020 LUT for such displays that is free of artifacts or has least amount of artifacts. I don't agree with the general advice to not create BT.2020 LUTs for BT.2020 HDR content.

@SirMaster: Can you share your display characterization data (the display profile), for which you were not able to get a good BT.2020 HDR to SDR LUT?

[omarank]

You're also wrong about rendering intent.

Colorimetric w/ white point scaling actually shrinks the gamut the most. because it cuts off earlier along the primaries to preserve accuracy over saturation. But again, this depends on where the primaries are. it may not behave this way for all situations.

Preserve saturation, and saturation, gives you the widest use of the gamut, but can be oversaturated.
Saturation intent (and also Perceptual intent) should not be used for Display Calibration 3DLUTs. Absolute Colorimetric with white point scaling (-iaw) and Relative Colorimetric (-ir) are the only recommended rendering intents here. The latter is normally used when the display contrast is already low and you don't want to reduce it further in correcting the white point. In most other cases, the former should be used.

[SirMaster]

You're also wrong about rendering intent.

Colorimetric w/ white point scaling actually shrinks the gamut the most. because it cuts off earlier along the primaries to preserve accuracy over saturation. But again, this depends on where the primaries are. it may not behave this way for all situations.



I'm not sure how you can say this is wrong. I attached my actual measurements of this and "Absolute colorimetric with white point scaling" is the widest gamut result.

I have done this on my computer monitors, TVs, and projectors all with the same result.

Sure I cannot say it will be this way for every monitor because I cannot test every monitor. But every display I have generated 3DLUTs for and where I have tried multiple rendering intents have ended up this way.

"Absolute colorimetric with white point scaling" has simply always led me to the best results that I see after verifying the LUT no matter what displays I have calibrated so far. Unless I am doing something very wrong.

I am definitely open for learning. I just write about what I have found based on my own experiences with the software and the process.

[SirMaster]

Argyll or some color engines may cause LUT issues when directly targeting BT.2020, especially when the display's gamut is close to or smaller than DCI-P3. But technically, it is possible to create a BT.2020 LUT for such displays that is free of artifacts or has least amount of artifacts. I don't agree with the general advice to not create BT.2020 LUTs for BT.2020 HDR content.

@SirMaster: Can you share your display characterization data (the display profile), for which you were not able to get a good BT.2020 HDR to SDR LUT?

I only happen to have files from one display handy.

https://nicko88.com/misc/NX5_gamut/

The DCI-P3 LUT causes a very, very tiny amount of posterization, small enough to not really notice normally.

The BT.2020 one causes pretty massive posterization that can't be ignored IMO.

But I saw this same phenomenon making a DCI-P3 3DLUT on one of my computer monitors which has just slightly more than rec709 and not near full P3 gamut (it's the display that was shown in my 6 screenshot measurements earlier).

Same thing on my Samsung TV that has near full P3 coverage when I tried a BT.2020 LUT.

If there is a way to make a 3DLUT with ArgyIICMS targeting a gamut that is substantially wider than the display's native gamut and there to be no noticeable posterization then I guess I just don't know how to achieve such results. It's the only result I have ever seen on a multitude of displays that I have generated LUTs for. And I have tried all the rendering intents. I am not sure what else I can adjust.

But when I target a gamut that is smaller than the display's native or only slightly larger then the results have always been fine.

[shaolin95]

All this conversation and different opinions on what is wrong or right for 3D Lut, its making me think I am just going to switch to 2020 as it is in my projector and enjoy my movies :D

[tp4tissue]

All this conversation and different opinions on what is wrong or right for 3D Lut, its making me think I am just going to switch to 2020 as it is in my projector and enjoy my movies :D

Your projector is not rec 2020. it has its own way of mapping a rec2020 Container (from file) onto whatever gamut it does have, which is something closer to DCI-P3.

The reason we get posterization from argyll cms is when its gamut compression engine fails. This failure can be the result of many things in the chain not necessarily always the same.

This compression failure is also not simply the result of how big or small the gamut is.

I have SDR displays using a p3 and rec2020 lut, It's only 76% dci p3 and yet NO Posterization.

Smaster's observation of getting posterization tuning for rec2020 is TRUE for HIS DISPLAY. It is NOT_TRUE for all displays. Again, it's not due to how big the gamut is, it's how closely aligned the primaries are to the source color space, and the various interplays of the display chain. We have multiple devices with multiple maps.

[shaolin95]

Your projector is not rec 2020. it has its own way of mapping a rec2020 Container (from file) onto whatever gamut it does have, which is something closer to DCI-P3.

The reason we get posterization from argyll cms is when its gamut compression engine fails. This failure can be the result of many things in the chain not necessarily always the same.

This compression failure is also not simply the result of how big or small the gamut is.

I have SDR displays using a p3 and rec2020 lut, It's only 76% dci p3 and yet NO Posterization.

Smaster's observation of getting posterization tuning for rec2020 is TRUE for HIS DISPLAY. It is NOT_TRUE for all displays. Again, it's not due to how big the gamut is, it's how closely aligned the primaries are to the source color space, and the various interplays of the display chain. We have multiple devices with multiple maps.
Yeah I read that it may do like 80% of 2020 vs almost 100% for DCI P3.
So if if it was you, how would you calibrate it for 4k movies? :)

[brazen1]

queues are not supposed to cost performance just Vram and as long as there is enough Vram this is free.

if you think RCA is ot free as it should be please make a a screen of the OSD with it and without it.

Sure. Here's with and without denoising activated and the setting for 'activate only if it comes for free (as part of NGU sharp' is also ticked.
Clearly you see denoise in the stats chewing up 17.02ms and pushing me way over the edge.
Fwiw, turning off supersampling doesn't improve anything. This is SDR. HDR is even worse. What am I doing wrong? Thanks.

https://i.imgur.com/smDH8yK.png

https://i.imgur.com/smDH8yK.png

https://i.imgur.com/3X9N5BW.png

https://i.imgur.com/3X9N5BW.png

[tp4tissue]

Yeah I read that it may do like 80% of 2020 vs almost 100% for DCI P3.
So if if it was you, how would you calibrate it for 4k movies? :)

Do BOTH, and look for anomalies in saturated areas. Try various rendering intents as well, you may like preserve saturation and saturation for certain movies.

[SirMaster]

Smaster's observation of getting posterization tuning for rec2020 is TRUE for HIS DISPLAY. It is NOT_TRUE for all displays.

Well for what it's worth in this case, shaolin95 is using a JVC as am I which use the same bulb and similar LCoS panels.

So I think there is good chance he runs into a similar issue. Something to look out for at least.

Many of us over on AV Science forum JVC calibration thread are noting the posterization with 3DLUT for BT.2020 on all our JVC projectors, but it'd fine when targeting DCI-P3.

I have seen it on other displays, but seems particularly bad on JVCs in general.

[shaolin95]

Do BOTH, and look for anomalies in saturated areas. Try various rendering intents as well, you may like preserve saturation and saturation for certain movies.

Ok I am planning to work on that tonight with DisplayCAl as I suppose it my best option.

Silly question, when interpreting stats in terms of rendering and max, what is a "safe" number to see there? I am leaving a movie running now to see in 2 hours what kind of drops if any I get. It is showing like 5 hours for repeated frames, so I don't expect any issues but just in case :)

UPDATE:
Finished the 2.5 hour movie with one frame repeated. It was showing 5 hours but still repeated 1..guess it not a big deal :D :D :D much better than my starting point of repeating a frame every 30s

[shaolin95]

Well for what it's worth in this case, shaolin95 is using a JVC as am I which use the same bulb and similar LCoS panels.

So I think there is good chance he runs into a similar issue. Something to look out for at least.

Many of us over on AV Science forum JVC calibration thread are noting the posterization with 3DLUT for BT.2020 on all our JVC projectors, but it'd fine when targeting DCI-P3.

I have seen it on other displays, but seems particularly bad on JVCs in general.
Good to know. I didn't realize you have a JVC. Thanks

[THU22]

Finished the 2.5 hour movie with one frame repeated. It was showing 5 hours but still repeated 1..guess it not a big deal :D :D :D much better than my starting point of repeating a frame every 30s

So what did you set exactly to achieve this result?

[omarank]

Many of us over on AV Science forum JVC calibration thread are noting the posterization with 3DLUT for BT.2020 on all our JVC projectors, but it'd fine when targeting DCI-P3.

I have seen it on other displays, but seems particularly bad on JVCs in general.

I only happen to have files from one display handy.

https://nicko88.com/misc/NX5_gamut/

The DCI-P3 LUT causes a very, very tiny amount of posterization, small enough to not really notice normally.

The BT.2020 one causes pretty massive posterization that can't be ignored IMO.
Using your data, I have generated two BT.2020 3DLUTs for you: one is for SDR Gamma 2.2 and the other is for HDR to SDR targeting about 480 nits. Try both and let me know what is your opinion about BT.2020 LUTs now.

The LUTs are shared here (https://www.mediafire.com/file/zxyw7ucw7c58zjc/SirMaster_Rec2020_HDR_%26_SDR_3DLUTs.rar/file).

As I analyzed your data, I found it was not a problem with Argyll that caused artifacts with BT.2020 LUTs, but the problem was with your data. Basically, the measurement data has a lot of weirdness around the display's gamut boundary region. And that is due to gamut processing done by the projector. Your projector is not doing a standard gamut mapping from BT.2020 to the native gamut, instead it is probably doing some extra processing/enhancement along with gamut mapping that is hard to understand just looking at the data. I had to process your data in a certain way to be able to create clean LUTs.

[shaolin95]

Using your data, I have generated two BT.2020 3DLUTs for you: one is for SDR Gamma 2.2 and the other is for HDR to SDR targeting about 480 nits. Try both and let me know what is your opinion about BT.2020 LUTs now.

The LUTs are shared here (https://www.mediafire.com/file/zxyw7ucw7c58zjc/SirMaster_Rec2020_HDR_%26_SDR_3DLUTs.rar/file).

As I analyzed your data, I found it was not a problem with Argyll that caused artifacts with BT.2020 LUTs, but the problem was with your data. Basically, the measurement data has a lot of weirdness around the display's gamut boundary region. And that is due to gamut processing done by the projector. Your projector is not doing a standard gamut mapping from BT.2020 to the native gamut, instead it is probably doing some extra processing/enhancement along with gamut mapping that is hard to understand just looking at the data. I had to process your data in a certain way to be able to create clean LUTs.
Would you mind explaining what you would need from me in order to do the same for my JVC RS520, please? :)
Thank you!

[tp4tissue]

I had to process your data in a certain way to be able to create clean LUTs.


Could you please elaborate on how and what Special processing did you do ?

[shaolin95]

So what did you set exactly to achieve this result?

I used CRU with these timings as that is how it finally worked with my JVC

[omarank]

Would you mind explaining what you would need from me in order to do the same for my JVC RS520, please? :)
Thank you!
I have sent you a PM.

[omarank]

Could you please elaborate on how and what Special processing did you do ?
Well, I used a combination of calibration/color processing software and soft tools (including our own proprietary) to analyze & process the data and generate the final madVR 3DLUTs. I can’t elaborate here I am afraid.

The idea was to ensure that the problematic measurement data corresponding to the display’s gamut boundary region was not used in computing a color transform. No gamut compression was done. The intent was absolute colorimetric (with white point scaled to prevent clipping).

The point of sharing the LUTs was to prevent the spread of misinformation, unintentional though, that BT.2020 LUTs cause posterization.

[SirMaster]

Using your data, I have generated two BT.2020 3DLUTs for you: one is for SDR Gamma 2.2 and the other is for HDR to SDR targeting about 480 nits. Try both and let me know what is your opinion about BT.2020 LUTs now.

The LUTs are shared here (https://www.mediafire.com/file/zxyw7ucw7c58zjc/SirMaster_Rec2020_HDR_%26_SDR_3DLUTs.rar/file).

As I analyzed your data, I found it was not a problem with Argyll that caused artifacts with BT.2020 LUTs, but the problem was with your data. Basically, the measurement data has a lot of weirdness around the display's gamut boundary region. And that is due to gamut processing done by the projector. Your projector is not doing a standard gamut mapping from BT.2020 to the native gamut, instead it is probably doing some extra processing/enhancement along with gamut mapping that is hard to understand just looking at the data. I had to process your data in a certain way to be able to create clean LUTs.

I tried this BT.2020 3DLUT, but it's a different kind of 3DLUT that I have not used before.

I don't use the type that goes in the hdr tab for tone-mapping since I use the dynamic tone-mapping in madVR.

I put my 3DLUT in the calibration tab. This 3DLUT cant go there under calibration, madVR says it's the wrong format.

Anyways with the tone-mapping 3DLUT the picture had almost no color, (probably because it's for 480 nit and my screen is under 100 nit?). Either way I can't even begin to judge for posterization with the 3DLUT as everything is just super flat and dim.

[webbo]

Hello

Looking for some kind of suggestion / help

Spec PC is the one in my signature
TV used for the setting is 4K HDR enabled Sony XF9005 model

My question would be, please - what's better - HDR Passthrough & Metadata being sent or the ToneMapping done by MadVR + HDR output (on or off, if it matters)

Screenshots attached from madVR with both options

Thanks a lot :thanks:

[ryrynz]

Hello

Looking for some kind of suggestion / help


Upload images somewhere else, they won't be approved here shortly, since you have a 1080Ti madVR would be best if the TV and madVR were configured right.

*looks like approval times have gotten better

[omarank]

I tried this BT.2020 3DLUT, but it's a different kind of 3DLUT that I have not used before.

I don't use the type that goes in the hdr tab for tone-mapping since I use the dynamic tone-mapping in madVR.

I put my 3DLUT in the calibration tab. This 3DLUT cant go there under calibration, madVR says it's the wrong format.

Anyways with the tone-mapping 3DLUT the picture had almost no color, (probably because it's for 480 nit and my screen is under 100 nit?). Either way I can't even begin to judge for posterization with the 3DLUT as everything is just super flat and dim.
I shared two LUTs with you. Gamma 2.2 LUT is for Calibration tab and the other one is for HDR tab. I just checked both LUTs work just fine.

Not sure what you mean by a different kind of LUT. If you refer to the HDR to SDR LUT, it was only provided as a reference, so as to show that both types of BT.2020 LUTs (SDR and HDRtoSDR) can be posterization free. Your projector has a peak luminance of 81.2 nits (as per the data) and I targeted a brightness ratio of 6:1, so targeted 487.2 nits for tonemapping. The image should be about 6 times dimmer as compared to a flat panel having about 480 nits peak luminance. I can also create an HDR to SDR LUT targeting about 200 nits (or any other level) if needed.

You should check the Gamma 2.2 LUT in the Calibration tab anyway and if you see posterization, share the screenshots with LUT On/Off and also with your DCI-P3 LUT activated.

[SirMaster]

I shared two LUTs with you. Gamma 2.2 LUT is for Calibration tab and the other one is for HDR tab. I just checked both LUTs work just fine.

Not sure what you mean by a different kind of LUT. If you refer to the HDR to SDR LUT, it was only provided as a reference, so as to show that both types of BT.2020 LUTs (SDR and HDRtoSDR) can be posterization free. Your projector has a peak luminance of 81.2 nits (as per the data) and I targeted a brightness ratio of 6:1, so targeted 487.2 nits for tonemapping. The image should be about 6 times dimmer as compared to a flat panel having about 480 nits peak luminance. I can also create an HDR to SDR LUT targeting about 200 nits (or any other level) if needed.

You should check the Gamma 2.2 LUT in the Calibration tab anyway and if you see posterization, share the screenshots with LUT On/Off and also with your DCI-P3 LUT activated.

Ah, I apologize.

I completely didn't think about the other LUT the one you named SDR as for some reason I was thinking it was rec709 or something like that.

I hope these didn't take too long to make because I don't think I can do a real comparison as the data I posted is quite old and I have changed up how I have my projector set up since then.

That profile was created back when I ran my bulb on low and iris wide open and on a different base calibration (JVC autocal, which updates the core calibration tables)

Since then I have switched to high bulb, closed my iris to -10 (which is quite far, increasing my contrast) and re-did autocal for a new base calibration.

I don't currently use a 3DLUT due to the posterization issue I was getting and also because with autocal and a tiny bit of manual calibration adjustments within the projector (custom gamma curve for 11 point WB and CMS adjustment) I am getting something like 1-2dE at worst for all my measurements (except those colors within P3 that are outside my projector's gamut).

I would like to make a fresh BT.2020 3DLUT and see once again if I am getting the posterization and then can send you that profile to take a look at and modify and then can compare that to the stock DisplayCAL one.

I am definitely interested in how a modified 3DLUT can compare to the stock one although from the sound of it I wouldn't be able to reproduce the modifications you are doing anyways for future 3DLUT or if I generate some for friends and family/etc.