madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[RainyDog]

Are there any madVR settings that are worth tweaking specifically for Nvidia cards? Anything that should be adjusted in the Nvidia control panel?

Coming off an R9 290 to a GTX 970, madVR performance doesn't feel as robust. I'm getting 5-6ms higher render times at the same settings and more dropped/delayed frames reported.

Is it an OpenCL thing? My settings are NNEDI3 64 luma doubling, Jinc3 for image and chroma upscaling and spline 36 for down.

I also used the madLevelsTweaker and it didn't change anything so was outputting FullRGB anyway as I thought. Thing is, I can still see the 15 and 16 IRE bars on black level calibration patterns. Black level does look to be correct by eye, and my set is an i1 Pro calibrated Sony W905 so I should be able to tell if not, but it's still bugging me...

:thanks:

[jaju123]

Do you mean the new Dynamic Super Resolution feature? It looks like it's just simple way to down sample for gaming from what I can see.

You can apparently also upscale/supersample your entire desktop!

[tuco76]

In windowed mode that can happen, although in theory it shouldn't.
Well in theory I'd better get myself some gear :p, as my GPU has its hands pretty full with smooth motion. Which works amazing, BTW!


If you don't see glitches, then it might not be something to lose sleep over. You could try whether increasing the size of the GPU queue and the number of prepresented frames helps. What should definitely help there is enabling fullscreen exclusive mode.


Thanks for looking into this as well, QBhd and michkrol helped me setting up to a stable windowed mode. [Thats for I desired keeping timeline in MPHC-HC,
that aside excl. mode worked rock solid, while rendering distinctly faster.]

For my other question on CCCs "Enforce smooth playback",
Still interested what exactly it affects, and if it might be of some help, under given circumstances. From what I gathered, I suppose rather the opposite.

A little rant: :) sry for OT:
All that amazing CCC-shebang.., Maybe that's the reason they have no spare time getting their support straight, as after a fresh W7 installment last week,
AMD drivers gave me a real bad headache.
The current stable would no way install properly [updates etc all set]
I tried the usual, and few not-so-, workarounds, but no way.
Next try, 13.versions didnt work either. [Most of which labeled "64bit" while in fact 32 :rolleyes:
Anyway, in case it might help anyone , current beta worked for me, finally.

But I'm afraid I inflicted some trouble myself :rolleyes:
For 1st time, I took a "blank" W7 , without SP1.
I installed as usual, chipset stuff first- even prior to SP1
Was that no good? I read controversial opinions about.
Or is it really just AMD messing up?



[Hardware: Intel Core i3 330M Dual @ 2.13GHz, 4GB RAM, Intel Chipset Havend./Clarkd.02,
AMD Mobility HD 5470 (512MB, DX 11, Pix.Fill: 3.0, Tex.Fil: 6.0, Driver vers. 14.200.beta
HDMI to Samsung 46° @ PC-Mode 60Hz]

[huhn]

You can apparently also upscale/supersample your entire desktop!

it's totally worthless for madVR.

it simply renders computer games in UHD and downscales these to 1080p. this is good for games but that's it.

[Mangix]

You can apparently also upscale/supersample your entire desktop!

to add on to what everyone else said, the last stage in video game rendering is rasterization. that is the conversion of vector based stuff to pixels.

Video is encoded in pixels. Therefore DSR offers 0 benefit for video playback.

It's really nice for video games though. It enables more precise rasterization and hence more detail.

edit: to add on to the desktop part, text has to be rasterized, so there might be a benefit there.

[Razoola]

Coming off an R9 290 to a GTX 970, madVR performance doesn't feel as robust. I'm getting 5-6ms higher render times at the same settings and more dropped/delayed frames reported.

Is it an OpenCL thing? My settings are NNEDI3 64 luma doubling, Jinc3 for image and chroma upscaling and spline 36 for down.


Did you make any progress on this? I'm am looking to get a new GTX970 and I'm a little worried to your first impressions with MadVR.

I know the 970 is not a top end card but it is certainly high end.

[Razoola]

I have a simple feature request for MadVR but I'm not sure if its possible. Let me explain the issue first.

I have recently upgraded my Audio receiver to a entry range UHD compatible model (Onkyo TX-NR636). The issue however is that compared to my last receiver (a Pioneer) this one takes longer time to do a refresh rate change. The downside of this is it seems to break audio after MadVR changes the refresh rate.

I'm really not sure why audio is stopping but it only happens when MadVR changes refresh rate. If the refresh rate is already set correctly then the issue does not happen (sound is going over HDMI). So normally I simply close the video and start it again.

Now I'm wondering if it would be possible to add an option to delay playback start in MadVR's display modes page if MadVR changes the targets display resolution? I'm not even sure this will fix my issue but maybe its worth a go?

Anyone else had this kind of issue?

update, I fixed this issue, see a few posts below.

[DragonQ]

Have you tried AVR Audio Guard? It basically mixes an empty audio stream with whatever else is playing so that your AVR never "loses" the audio signal. Not sure if it'd apply to your situation but worth a try, perhaps?

[RainyDog]

Did you make any progress on this? I'm am looking to get a new GTX970 and I'm a little worried to your first impressions with MadVR.

I know the 970 is not a top end card but it is certainly high end.

Was just coming back to address this. Short answer is…I think so :)

Got to the point where I was getting quite a lot of skipping, pixelation and A/V sync issues, even with lowered settings. So I switched to EVR in MPC and wasn’t any better either so I started digging around in the Nvidia control panel and appeared to narrow it down to the power management setting which is set to ‘adaptive’ for global 3D applications. Changing this to full power seemed to instantly sort it so I think that the adaptive setting was over aggressively lowering the GPU clocks to try and save power and was putting the card into a too low power state for video playback, at least with MPC. I didn’t have much time to test as I only stumbled over it late last night, but I tried a handful videos for a few mins and definitely appeared to be sorted anyway.

I’ll sit down and watch a full film tonight so will update again after that.

[Razoola]

Have you tried AVR Audio Guard? It basically mixes an empty audio stream with whatever else is playing so that your AVR never "loses" the audio signal. Not sure if it'd apply to your situation but worth a try, perhaps?

Thanks for the tip. I gave it a go but it does not help the situation.

Pausing and restarting the video does not help either. I have only found that exiting full screen and going back into full screen fixes the issue or closing and restarting the video.

[burfadel]

Okay, I found the issue. It is a bug in MPC-HC! It's working properly now, in fact I can't make it not work properly! :)

How to 'fix'

Make sure the monitor (or TV etc) is in it's native mode, say 1920x1080. Also make sure MadVR etc is selected, then:
go to view --> options
click on 'Fullscreen' under 'Playback' on the left hand side
select the correct monitor from the 'Fullscreen monitor' dropdown list
click on 'Use autochange fullscreen monitor mode
click add, which should add an option to the list at the bottom with the correct display mode and refresh rate
make sure the 'from' and 'to' are set correctly (for this purpose type in say, from 1 to 70, it doesn't matter, as long as it covers what you will play)
move it up to the top and deselect every other option
deselect the 'Apply default monitor mode on fullscreen exit' and 'Restore resolution on program exit' at the bottom
click ok
open a new video and play in fullscreen mode
check out the working controls
exit fullscreen mode
go back to options and deselect the autochange option, it seems to be only needed once
close MPC-HC
reopen and test with your video

If it wasn't working before, it should now. Seems there is a settings bug in MPC-HC somewhere. It works after a reboot etc as well as changing display modes, which is good!

Okay, so I reinstalled Windows yesterday, and had the exact same problem straight off after setting up the basic mpc-hc+madVR. However, this time the above didn't work. I just managed to get it working by playing around with the AMD Control Panel, adding a custom resolution for scaling (which you can) and mucking around with that, and the autochange!

Now, the important thing to realise is that the progress bar shows on the main screen in full screen, just not on the TV. Also, it's not that it's off the screen due to scaling, it simply IS NOT there. If it were a scaling issue, if you moved the mouse past the bottom of the screen and click it should take you to that place in the video. Furthermore, the picture isn't cropped in full screen mode, in that the whole picture is there.

Lastly, it appears that MadVR simply refuses to go into exclusive mode on the second screen, or at least it appears that way. It's like it's stuck between windows and exclusive modes.

Anyways, at least I got it working again :) Originally I thought it may have been a bug in MPC-HC, but from what I just saw it appears to be a bug in MadVR.

Going back to the earlier comment, there were people saying the progress bar doesn't show in fullscreen exclusive mode. Well, that just means they have the bug too, because that transparent grey progress bar with the blue progress indicator should show when you move the cursor to the bottom of the screen.

If ANYONE else has the issue where the progress indicator does not show (the exclusive mode one that is transparent grey and has the blue progress indicator) speak up!

[Razoola]

I managed to fix my audio issue. It turns out when I connected the new receiver the PC reset the speaker configuration to stereo while LAV was 5.1. When resolution changed the audio connection would sometimes reset to stereo and other times not. Setting the windows speaker config to 5.1 fixed the issue.

That said having a configurable delay after a resolution change would still be nice. In my new setup the audio receiver is already outputting sound before the UHD TV has fully connected to the receiver at the new resolution. Sometimes there is around two seconds of audio with no picture, other times its instant.

Raz

[tuco76]

As my prev. post gone somewhat long :rolleyes:, please allow me to wrap up my prob./question:

I installed a fresh W7, started with chipset-drivers, prior to SP1. Might this cause (further?) driver/update trouble?

In case anyone has experiences or profound advise on that, I'd be very grateful for sharing..
(As mentioned, I read quite opposite opinions on that :confused:)

[Procrastinating]

Has anyone noticed any significant changed in madVR performance since AMD driver 14.2? I went with the performance drop as it wasn't big enough to need to change settings. Nonetheless It would be interesting if someone noticed an improvement/decline in performance wince the 14.2 drivers.

[RainyDog]

Has anyone noticed any significant changed in madVR performance since AMD driver 14.2? I went with the performance drop as it wasn't big enough to need to change settings. Nonetheless It would be interesting if someone noticed an improvement/decline in performance wince the 14.2 drivers.

The 14.8 drivers were horrible when I tried them on my R9 290. Temps and power draw shot up, not sure what AMD did to cause it.

I found 13.12 to be the best for madVR with my card.

[tuco76]

I found 13.12 to be the best for madVR with my card.

Been all good with 13.12, too.. didn't use MadVR back then, cant help for comparison thus

After re-install I tried 13.12, but it didnt offer CCC, on no version except 14.2. so far. Will try further, though.

Only thing I actually need CCC for, making sure it does none of them crappy defaults.
Except Vect.Deinterlacing, when asked for :p

[mbordas]

Is there any way to use madVR for live TV?

NPVR is specifically said not to work with it, and windows media center uses EVR, apparently to allow for playback of protected content. It's easy enough to get WMC to use LAVfilters, is there any way to tweak WMC to use madvr by default as well?

[turbojet]

No way to use madvr with wmp/wmc.

I use potplayer+madvr for atsc and cablecard but i've read it doesn't work with dvb. Some have had success with dvb in mpc-*.

Then there's jriver.

[QBhd]

SmartDVB works with potplayer... I personally don't know much about it since I do not have a need for it, but I do go to this site for my potplayer updates:

http://www.dvbsupport.net/

QB

[Andy o]

I managed to fix my audio issue. It turns out when I connected the new receiver the PC reset the speaker configuration to stereo while LAV was 5.1. When resolution changed the audio connection would sometimes reset to stereo and other times not. Setting the windows speaker config to 5.1 fixed the issue.

That said having a configurable delay after a resolution change would still be nice. In my new setup the audio receiver is already outputting sound before the UHD TV has fully connected to the receiver at the new resolution. Sometimes there is around two seconds of audio with no picture, other times its instant.

Raz

Have you tried using ReClock and WASAPI exclusive mode? It has the advantages of actually switching channels on your receiver depending on the content, so your receiver for instance could get you the stereo options for stereo content.

[aufkrawall]

AMD has released OpenCL 2.0 driver:
http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/OpenCL2-Driver.aspx#

How does D3D interop work with it?

[Razoola]

Have you tried using ReClock and WASAPI exclusive mode? It has the advantages of actually switching channels on your receiver depending on the content, so your receiver for instance could get you the stereo options for stereo content.

Yes I tried that but it did not solve the issue. In fact I though I had solved the problem but it looks like I was wrong, it has returned again and does seen related to the way the receiver handles handshaking.

[DragonQ]

AMD has released OpenCL 2.0 driver:
http://support.amd.com/en-us/kb-articles/Pages/OpenCL2-Driver.aspx#

How does D3D interop work with it?
I'll try it tonight. Strange that it only supports Windows 8.1 although they may add support for earlier OSs later.

[DragonQ]

I'll try it tonight. Strange that it only supports Windows 8.1 although they may add support for earlier OSs later.
OK I probably won't get a chance to check it for a while. A deadline got pushed forward by two weeks. :(

[ikakun]

I just tried that new AMD OpenCL 2.0 driver, and on my end, there's really nothing worth noting for. No improvement on OpenCL related functions on madvr.

I even run the OpenCL speed test that madshi made but my numbers on my 7770 is as horrible as before.

BTW, my catalyst driver is 14.6 beta.

[tuco76]

I even run the OpenCL speed test that madshi made
BTW, my catalyst driver is 14.6 beta.

Where can dl this speed test?, Obviously not with the testpatterns :confused:
@ikakunDid you notice any performance change wíth MadVR,
upgrading from which version?
Im currently on 14.2 beta

[Plutotype]

Does anybody know please, how does madvr work when the main GPU HDMI out is connected to a HDMI splitter and then to 2-8 displays?
Thanks

[huhn]

Does anybody know please, how does madvr work when the main GPU HDMI out is connected to a HDMI splitter and then to 2-8 displays?
Thanks

shouldn't care i guess.

it should work like one normal display.

[xabregas]

Hi

I recently upgraded to Windows 8.1 and now i have a problem with madvr. I always used exlusive mode because to my eyes it gives me better PQ than without it, dont know why. But now with windows 8.1 when i go FSE i feel something wrong, while is not shown on CTRL-J, everything is fine there, but when people move or faces move quick i feel its not smooth like it was in windows 7 with madvr FSE and aero disabled... In windows 8.1 i cant disable aero or wtv desktop vsync in use and i think its competing with madvr own vsync...

Any help?

TIA

I dont have this problem with EVR, but i want madvr...

[ikakun]

Where can dl this speed test?, Obviously not with the testpatterns
Here it is:
http://madshi.net/OpenClSpeedTest.zip
There's no testpatterns on this. Just run the executable file then wait for it to finish things.


Did you notice any performance change wíth MadVR,
upgrading from which version?
The thing I notice on my part is that when watching 720p24 10bit video on my 1080p monitor with Jinc3ar image upscaling + 16 neurons NNEDI3 chroma upscaling(uses OpenCL), I get 2-3 ms lesser rendering times.

I'm currently using 14.6 beta catalyst driver as what I already stated on my previous post.

You could try using drivers from 13.12 to the latest beta drivers then install the latest OpenCL version from AMD to know what driver version you get better/higher NNEDI settings(which depends on OpenCL performance). Most people here, IIRC, prefer 13.12. As for me, 14.6 is where I get the best performance on NNEDI.

If you search on this thread about OpenCL of AMD cards, you'll see that PCIE version does matter when using NNEDI on madVr.

And also, you should see Renethx's madVr NNEDI charts at AVS forum that shows different settings you can use depending on what GPU & PCIE version you have.

[tuco76]

@ikakun: Thanks man, thats some quite detailed and sharp input! Especially the AVS link looks interesting!
(BTW, I actually meant which version you used prior, 14.2? Anyway, thanks again this head ups is most appreciated! :thanks:

[ikakun]

@ikakun:
BTW, I actually meant which version you used prior, 14.2?

I was on 13.12 when madshi put NNEDI3 in madVr. The NNEDI3(which use OpenCL) performance on AMD GPUs(which supposed to be better at it) was horrible that time. Madshi found out that it was because of the OpenCL <-> D3D interop(correct me if I'm wrong). The OpenCL Error Diffusion Dithering also suffers from it so madshi goes Direct Compute on Error Diffusion Dithering. Eventually, madshi found a workaround on that interop problem, and by then, I was able to use NNEDI3.

When 14.2 came out, I immediately tried it. Unfortunately, performance for NNEDI3 was bad. Then I rolled back to 13.12. Then there's 14.4 but much worst so I revert back again. And then on 14.6, I was glad because even though the improvement from 13.12 is negligible(at least to me), It has some new features that my monitor can benefit from.

So by then I'm on 14.6 beta. But I think I'll try the 14.7 rc3 beta tomorrow if I have time. Though I doubt there will be an improvement.

[turbojet]

Hi

I recently upgraded to Windows 8.1 and now i have a problem with madvr. I always used exlusive mode because to my eyes it gives me better PQ than without it, dont know why. But now with windows 8.1 when i go FSE i feel something wrong, while is not shown on CTRL-J, everything is fine there, but when people move or faces move quick i feel its not smooth like it was in windows 7 with madvr FSE and aero disabled... In windows 8.1 i cant disable aero or wtv desktop vsync in use and i think its competing with madvr own vsync...

Any help?

TIA

I dont have this problem with EVR, but i want madvr...

No problem here with windows 8.1.1 and FSE but you can disable desktop composition on windows 8 with builtin resource manager or process explorer/hacker
1. kill explorer.exe
2. suspend winlogon.exe
3. kill dwm.exe
4. start explorer.exe

To enable desktop composition, resume winlogon.exe

[TheRyuu]

^ cyberbeing is correct. Is there any practical benefit (worth mentioning) to have these flags enabled?

That's the wrong way to look at it, it should be the other way around. Unless you have a very good reason things like ASLR, DEP, stack protection (/GS) should always be on. There's a reason they all default to on with any remotely modern msvc compiler.

Hi

I recently upgraded to Windows 8.1 and now i have a problem with madvr. I always used exlusive mode because to my eyes it gives me better PQ than without it, dont know why. But now with windows 8.1 when i go FSE i feel something wrong, while is not shown on CTRL-J, everything is fine there, but when people move or faces move quick i feel...

Are you sure it's not just in your head?

No problem here with windows 8.1.1 and FSE but you can disable desktop composition on windows 8 with builtin resource manager or process explorer/hacker
1. kill explorer.exe
2. suspend winlogon.exe
3. kill dwm.exe
4. start explorer.exe

To enable desktop composition, resume winlogon.exe

Doesn't 8+ fallback to software compositing if hardware acceleration doesn't work (i.e. you can't disable it on 8+)?

[MysteryX]

I'm running SVP with madVR and it's working really well, but there's one black/white 360p video that is lagging in 1080p. Why is this video lagging with madVR? I don't see what would be more GPU-demanding than the other videos in my library. The only difference is that it is mostly black and white. If I slightly reduce the size of the window, it is playing fine so I don't think the issue is with SVP. It's probably with madVR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KN_nyGehek

My settings for SD videos:
Noise reduction: Off
Chroma upscaling: Jinc (3 taps) + AR
Image doubling: all activated with 32 neurous
Image upscaling: Jinc (3 taps) + AR
Image downscaling: Catmull-Rom + AR + LL

These settings work fine for every other 480p video I have on 1080p display, and ALL videos on 768p display. It's just that one video that lags.

[Qaq]

Why is this video lagging with madVR?Learn madVR OSD. Its all there. Untill that you will always be asking such questions.

[michkrol]

My settings for SD videos:
Noise reduction: Off
Chroma upscaling: Jinc (3 taps) + AR
Image doubling: all activated with 32 neurous
Image upscaling: Jinc (3 taps) + AR
Image downscaling: Catmull-Rom + AR + LL

These settings work fine for every other 480p video I have on 1080p display, and ALL videos on 768p display. It's just that one video that lags.

This doesn't tell us everything.
By default (if enabled) image quadrupling is working for scaling factors 3x or higher, so here's your problem - 360p to 1080p is exactly 3x scaling, so quadrupling gets activated.
With those setting the 360p gets doubled to 720p then it gets doubled again (quadrupled) to 1440p then it gets downscaled to 1080p. It is a lot of work, but that's how you have it set up.
I propose you disable quadrupling and see if there is a noticeable difference in image quality, it might not be worth the performance hit.

[tuco76]

So by then I'm on 14.6 beta. But I think I'll try the 14.7 rc3 beta tomorrow if I have time. Though I doubt there will be an improvement.

Ok thanks! btw I messed up posting my driver nfo:rolleyes:
I'm running that 14.7 rc3 beta you going to test, I wrote in a hurry
from my GPU-Z nfo driver vs. 14.200 Catalyst 14.7 sry.

Unfortunately, cant contribute for comparison due to my old HD 5470, next to all benefits mainly for better GPUs imo.
CCC itself runs all stable here on 14.7, [acceptin/switcing settings hasn't always been that sharp and reliable].

Nevertheless, I'm interested what you guys hit with new drivers/cards, gathering nfo for my next buying decision
(not even sure if AMD thogh ;))

[James Freeman]

Does madVR read the embedded icc profile in Jpeg image with adobeRGB profile so that I can use madVR as a color managed image viewer?
I can see that is does, but is it done correctly like photoshop?

BTW, I have to pause MPC to see the image.

[e-t172]

Does madVR read the embedded icc profile in Jpeg image with adobeRGB profile so that I can use madVR as a color managed image viewer?

madVR does not support ICC. Maybe your demuxer/decoder does and converts the image to a suitable colorspace before handing it to madVR, but I would find that surprising.

[aufkrawall]

Still no one compared performance of 780 Ti vs. 980 in madVR?
Anandtech tested 970, but not one single word about it.
Maybe I'll get one 980 next week, but feel free to be first. :D

[tuco76]

Concerning Disable Desktop Composition, whats your take/experiences on this statement (from jriver MadVR guide):

Disable desktop composition (...)Back in the early days of madVR this may have been necessary on some systems, but I don't recommend enabling this option now. Typically the main thing that happens is that it breaks v-sync and you get screen tearing. (horizontal lines over the video)

Might disabling Deskt.Comp. really do rather harm than any good on current MadVR version?
source:
http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=80253.0

[nevcairiel]

At least on Windows 8 and above, the desktop compositor works quite flawless with video playback, and I've never had a single issue with it.
If you worry, you can just run FSE mode, and it has no influence on the video in any case.

[Soukyuu]

I don't think you can even disable desktop composition in windows 8+ anymore.

[jkauff]

I'm running the latest update to Win 8.1, and I get great results in both FSE and windowed mode. No need to disable desktop composition.

[Anime Viewer]

I'm running SVP with madVR and it's working really well, but there's one black/white 360p video that is lagging in 1080p. Why is this video lagging with madVR? I don't see what would be more GPU-demanding than the other videos in my library. The only difference is that it is mostly black and white. If I slightly reduce the size of the window, it is playing fine so I don't think the issue is with SVP. It's probably with madVR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KN_nyGehek

My settings for SD videos:
Noise reduction: Off
Chroma upscaling: Jinc (3 taps) + AR
Image doubling: all activated with 32 neurous
Image upscaling: Jinc (3 taps) + AR
Image downscaling: Catmull-Rom + AR + LL

These settings work fine for every other 480p video I have on 1080p display, and ALL videos on 768p display. It's just that one video that lags.

Besides the neurons (NNEDI3) being a possible issue as someone previously touched on you could try having don't render frames when fade in/out is detected in the madVR trade quality for performance checked. When it comes to black and white video the system may mistake shades of black/white/grey, and when it changes from one to the other as a fade effect. (Beside that the video you linked does have fading occurring in it).

[whitestar999]

According to this link:
http://gpuboss.com/gpus/Radeon-R7-250X-vs-Radeon-HD-7770
7770 has lower memory bandwidth(72gb/s,i read somewhere that 80gb/s is minimum for smooth nnedi3) but is leading in rest of the parameters like floating point performance,pixel rate etc so for madvr which is better as both are available at same price here.I need the card only for madvr(& anime) as i don't play games on pc.

[huhn]

I don't know how this page works but both card use a cape verde XT so both are the same cards so these numbers doesn't make any sense they are just work.

the r7 250 has an oland XT chip not the r7 250X.

[Asmodian]

I wouldn't get an HD 7770 or R7 250X for a (high end) madVR HTPC. AMD quotes 72 GB/s (http://www.amd.com/en-us/products/graphics/desktop/r7) for the R7 250X as well as the 7770. It is the R7 260X that is at 104 GB/s.

[whitestar999]

The info provided in gpuboss link is wrong,they are showing R7 260X under label R7 250X.Well then R7 250X looks better choice as it is newer rehash version.I know it is not good enough for a high end HTPC but then i don't have the hardware(screen,calorimeter & whatnot) or source(1080p60p/i videos or bluray player) worthy for a high end htpc hence this choice of cards.If i were a gamer then it would be different but considering my modest collection & hardware,getting anything above R7 250X is not worth it.