madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Polopretress]

Thanks I got it now
What do you say fixed in this version that doesn't in all others?
Nothing very important but it extends the duration of the version.
(compared to previous, a bug fix et compared to 157, more choice on "highlight sat"

If you want to follow the beta thread, refer to
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/

edit: sorry, i did not understand your question if it is based on beta113 because i am now on beta 159 and a lot of improvement have been made.
The 113 is cool for people who does not want to update their madvr because the features of the DTM are already very correct.

[kasper93]

I am interested to hear your opinion on "bilateral old", if you wouldn't mind. My TV is not sufficient for evaluation as it downsamples to 4:2:2 internally.

Hard to describe, there is a difference. I prefer sharp, over soft and old. But all suffers from the same bilateral thing that removes fine chroma detail, which I don't necessary like out of principle, but it looks very good for sharp edges, text, even if not correct in some cases.

What do you mean? According to madshi there shouldn't be visible diff between low and med for chroma (I use Sharp).can you share a sample where NGU AA low and med for chroma makes a difference?

and does super xbr not perform similar in these cases?

I'm pixel peeping here hard... My point was if you go for ultimate placebo settings you might as well use medium+. I notices "low" have slight less detail and more aliasing compared to "medium" which is not much more performance intensive. But if you are mentally sane :o you probably should go with something much faster like Bicubic, because you will not notice any difference in 99.9% of content anyway... And yes super xbr is somewhere in between.

I mostly was focusing in evaluating Bilateral performance, because this is what will actually look noticeably different in many cases. And see when it is usable and when it is not.

I will share some comparison, when I have more time. Maybe I will capture some 4:4:4 for reference...

[LenniePaz]

Nothing very important but it extends the duration of the version.
(compared to previous, a bug fix et compared to 157, more choice on "highlight sat"

If you want to follow the beta thread, refer to
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/

edit: sorry, i did not understand your question if it is based on beta113 because i am now on beta 159 and a lot of improvement have been made.
The 113 is cool for people who does not want to update their madvr because the features of the DTM are already very correct.


The average user won’t see a difference between v113 and v159. 113 doesn’t expire and the newer betas do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JarrettH]

Nothing very important but it extends the duration of the version.
(compared to previous, a bug fix et compared to 157, more choice on "highlight sat"

If you want to follow the beta thread, refer to
https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/

edit: sorry, i did not understand your question if it is based on beta113 because i am now on beta 159 and a lot of improvement have been made.
The 113 is cool for people who does not want to update their madvr because the features of the DTM are already very correct.

Any improvements with regard to NGU scaling? Maybe quality or speed? Any fixes for non-hdr / non-tone mapping people? Better compatibility with later Windows 10 or later NVIDIA drivers? I stay on 0.92.17 because as I understand there's no benefit to updating (and I use Smooth Motion).

[flossy_cake]

Is HDR animation pretty much unusable on a SDR display?

It seems animation has a lot of really bright tones, and bright tones are the ones that must be aggressively compressed when tonemapping to SDR. This seems to result in a very unfaithful image, eg.

Original SDR bluray (https://i3.lensdump.com/i/tEXxHc.png)
HDR bluray tonemapped to SDR using clipping @ 200nits (https://i.lensdump.com/i/tEXyXK.png)
HDR bluray tonemapped to SDR using BT.2390 @ 200nits (https://i1.lensdump.com/i/tEXGrZ.png)

edit: after inspecting the pixel values of the grass in the 200nits clipping image, none of the subpixels are anywhere near clipping at 8-bit value 255. I take that to mean the luminance curves of the grass should appear the same on SDR display since we are below the 200nits clipping point, so maybe it's a problem with the source -- maybe the tonemapping was altered by the company that did the HDR colour grading?

edit2: ah yes, it seems to be noticed by this reviewer as well:

Making matters worse, the HDR grade—which should have been restrained to preserve the film’s delicate palette—has made some colors bolder, while causing the backgrounds to occasionally appear washed out. (Lupin and Jigen’s walk through the ruins of the original castle is a good example.)

[kasper93]

Is HDR animation pretty much unusable on a SDR display?

It seems animation has a lot of really bright tones, and bright tones are the ones that must be aggressively compressed when tonemapping to SDR. This seems to result in a very unfaithful image, eg.

Original SDR bluray (https://i3.lensdump.com/i/tEXxHc.png)
HDR bluray tonemapped to SDR using clipping @ 200nits (https://i.lensdump.com/i/tEXyXK.png)
HDR bluray tonemapped to SDR using BT.2390 @ 200nits (https://i1.lensdump.com/i/tEXGrZ.png)

edit: after inspecting the pixel values of the grass in the 200nits clipping image, none of the subpixels are anywhere near clipping at 8-bit value 255. I take that to mean the luminance curves of the grass should appear the same on SDR display since we are below the 200nits clipping point, so maybe it's a problem with the source -- maybe the tonemapping was altered by the company that did the HDR colour grading?

edit2: ah yes, it seems to be noticed by this reviewer as well: Off-topic. You are not even using madVR's DTM in your example. Hi guys! have anyone compaired 4:4:4 to HDR? Big difference? Another Off-topic.

This is madVR thread, please at least pretend to ask question related to it. Doom9 is a forum, everyone is allowed to create own threads to discuss own topics, please do not plug completely unrelated question here or to any other unrelated thread.

Any improvements with regard to NGU scaling? Maybe quality or speed? Any fixes for non-hdr / non-tone mapping people? Better compatibility with later Windows 10 or later NVIDIA drivers? I stay on 0.92.17 because as I understand there's no benefit to updating (and I use Smooth Motion). No, nothing of interest if you do not want to contribute in testing DTM changes. There were likely some internal changes, I remember recently some changes to GPU resources management to reduce VRAM consumption, but there are also known regressions to latest stable build, because the main focus is on experimenting with HDR, not day to day use. But nothing stops you to try and see by yourself :)

[flossy_cake]

You are not even using madVR's DTM in your example.

How you think it looks on my PC

https://i.ibb.co/8Xzc3bn/1.png

How it actually looks

https://i.ibb.co/N6r7jW5/2.png

Off-topic.

Well to get nitpicky there was kind of an implied question of "is this just how bad HDR animation looks when converted to SDR or are my MadVR settings incorrect?"

The bit in bold could be argued to be relevant to MadVR.

But anyway it's a moot point since none of the RGB pixel values are clipping in my 200 nits clipping screenshot, so that particular scene is all under 200nits and is not being tonemapped anyway (except for HDR EOTF > gamma, obviously) so dynamic tonemapping would not help there I would imagine?

[huhn]

https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions#download

[flossy_cake]

https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions#download

Thanks, and did you see the version number in the screenshots are the same 0.92.17?

So I figured MadVR must only be unlocking those settings under certain conditions. Kind of like how those 2 HDR options only become available after unticking one of the performance settings elsewhere.

edit: or perhaps Madshi just didn't bother to update the version number label in the GUI?

[LenniePaz]

Thanks, and did you see the version number in the screenshots are the same 0.92.17?

So I figured MadVR must only be unlocking those settings under certain conditions. Kind of like how those 2 HDR options only become available after unticking one of the performance settings elsewhere.

edit: or perhaps Madshi just didn't bother to update the version number label in the GUI?


The version number is not shown in the GUI.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[x7007]

could the new explorer screw up the 10 bit in madVR? because it works fine when I restart windows or restart Explorer.exe, it stops working as soon I run a game, also I noticed there is a very faint white flash just before it stops working. need to check, there is also fast script to switch between

https://winbuzzer.com/2021/12/21/how-to-get-the-classic-file-explorer-with-ribbon-back-in-windows-11-xcxwbt/

took it from reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/windowsinsiders/comments/ohbwkk/comment/hftux6t/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

@echo off

chcp 65001

cd %systemroot%\system32

call :IsAdmin

Color AF

Echo Windows 11

Echo Change Old or New Explorer + Restart Explorer:

Echo.

Echo 1 - Old Explorer

Echo 2 - New Explorer

echo.

Set /p choice="Choice Old or New Explorer (1 or 2) : "

if "%choice%"=="1" reg add "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Shell Extensions\Blocked" /v {e2bf9676-5f8f-435c-97eb-11607a5bedf7} /f

if "%choice%"=="2" reg delete "HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Shell Extensions\Blocked" /f

: /v {e2bf9676-5f8f-435c-97eb-11607a5bedf7} /f

Echo. Restart Explorer

@echo off

Taskkill /F /IM explorer.exe

start explorer.exe

:IsAdmin

Reg.exe query "HKU\S-1-5-19\Environment"

If Not %ERRORLEVEL% EQU 0 (

Color 4F

Cls & Echo Start file AS Admin ...

Pause & Exit

)

Cls

goto:eof

[djsolidsnake86]

what mean the message please update your madvr build?

[SamuriHL]

It means you're using an expired build that will no longer work. You will need to either revert to a build of 113 or prior or update to the latest working beta build.

[gastonkilby]

Can it be downloaded on a torrent? I haven't tried to search on torrents yet, I left it as a last resort. But I understand that it has come. I'll try to search on the torrent using RARBG (https://proxy-rarbg.org/). I hope I get lucky.

[huhn]

maybe... why? it's a less then 25 mb file: https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions#download

[flossy_cake]

You can force madVR to apply specific properties by adding tags to your filenames.

deint=On|Off|Video|Film|ivtc


Is there any difference between "Film" and "ivtc"? I can't seem to tell any difference but just wanted to make sure. Asmodian's "madVR options explained" doesn't mention any difference, and neither does JRiver's wiki.

On another note I am a bit disappointed with MadVR's "Video" mode deinterlacing -- it seems to need a lot of frames before it realises it can switch to weaving fields for static unchanging pixels, and when it does, it is super sensitive to the slightest bit of pixel movement to trigger it out of weaving (such as a small amount of camera movement, or older content which has that constant film reel jitter). Even a very low end TV has better video mode deinterlacing than this. It's problematic for content with mixed field cadences and/or "bad edits" (dynamic field order changes) we need good video mode deinterlacing. I seem to have a vague memory of reading how per-pixel video mode deinterlacing is implemented very simply and cheaply on Broadcom STB chipsets, so I think there is a more efficient and effective way to do it.

Interlaced clip 1 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VhLYUDgk_o_j61mQzcE5gPtgLXc-ODVq/view?usp=sharing)
Video mode deinterlacing works quite well with this clip, but only because the static unmoving parts of the image are perfectly still. But the alternating white and black 1px lines reveal a long ~500ms delay before weaving actually kicks in.

Interlaced clip 2 (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lHB_EPFEKAQEiKab5LlYq0EyY9OOObeT/view?usp=sharing)
Video mode deinterlacing works quite badly with this clip as there is constant small amounts of movement of the frame which keeps kicking it out of weave deinterlacing and dropping back to effectively 240p resolution. Film deinterlacing works much better, but the content uses multiple cadences and some elements don't render properly, eg. the 60fps credits.

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+T to toggle between deinterlacing modes.

[huhn]

film mode is IVTC.
madVR doesn't have a deinterlacer it just used the GPU provided deinterlacer if that's bad you get bad results if it is good you get good results.

a good GPU driver deinterlacer is currently the best available deint we have for real time usage.

[el Filou]

you want a 4.4:4 source?
here we go:

take the HUD not the game content didn't work out as planned.

i wonder why the colors are messed up lavfilter was used to subsample BTW..(apologies for the late answer)
Thanks, I know it's easy to get 4:4:4 by using video games as source, but I hardly watch video game content. That's why I said it's important to test using the type of content you watch the most, as different chrome upsampling algos can give different results depending on if you're watching video game/animation/live content.
It's pretty hard to find 4:4:4 live content samples.What about the increased rendering times with 113, and the broken SM?Just FYI (based on madshi's explanation), the increased rendering times in v113 are actually closer to truth than the ones in v112 and before.
With earlier versions, madVR stats would show lower rendering times but it would start to drop frames at lower render times when comparing to frame time. v113 reports higher times comparatively, but can go closer to the frame time before it starts dropping because madshi optimised some stuff in the rendering.
It's sad wrt smooth motion crash for people who use it else v113 would be a nice test build for a lot of people.

[flossy_cake]

madVR doesn't have a deinterlacer it just used the GPU provided deinterlacer if that's bad you get bad results if it is good you get good results.
a good GPU driver deinterlacer is currently the best available deint we have for real time usage.

Thanks for clearing that up -- I had mistakenly thought MadVR was using its own custom pixel shader code to deinterlace.

I see there are options for software deinterlacing in LAV Video Decoder, so I can use those instead.

Curiously, LAV's video mode deinterlacing seems to work well, except on the black and white alternating 1px line patterns. Other 1px patterns work well though, just something about the black & white must be pushing it past some contrast threshold and tripping it out of weave. In video content such a pattern would typically not exist so it's ok I guess.

edit: to clarify, it seems LAV's "Weston" deinterlacing is just crude field interpolation at all times (aka bob deinterlacing). The "Yadif" one on the other hand does seem to intelligently switch between weave and bob for different zones of the raster, but it's still bobbing totally static pixels when it shouldn't be. And its "film" mode option isn't resolving alternating 1px black and white pattern either. Ctrl+arrows to step through in MPC-HC.

[huhn]

(apologies for the late answer)
Thanks, I know it's easy to get 4:4:4 by using video games as source, but I hardly watch video game content. That's why I said it's important to test using the type of content you watch the most, as different chrome upsampling algos can give different results depending on if you're watching video game/animation/live content.
It's pretty hard to find 4:4:4 live content samples.

what do you apologies for my new test is bad.
computer game's like this are very similar to anime at least.
we can also take source image from bbb and such.
the next issue is usually chroma doesn't matter as much with none computer/drawn sources.

i was even doing more test with: this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESx_hy1n7HA
where chroma scaler are day night different it's ridiculous i even found a PNG render from part of the image as a reference
thank to some simple searching the internet but not a simple wallpaper of this...

[tyner]

Among the laptops IÂ’m looking to buy some will have these graphics

https://www.notebookcheck.net/GeFor...vs-Quadro-P2000_10227_9860_8886.247598.0.html

I think the 1650ti may be the oldest of these mobile versions, but a user of same said he could use some number of the better settings in madVR to scale DVDs to 1080p. ThatÂ’s what I want to.

But of the above three, how do they compare at running madVR for quality 1080p scaling of commercially issued (Warners, CBS Paramount, Universal, Fox) movies and ~ 60 minute TV show DVDs?

And with least power consumption, heat and fan noise?

That is, which one may have the best of both, power and efficiency, for this task?

From what I can make of the Cinebench and power consumption scores at the above link, the p2000 seems like the best choice. Yes?

[flossy_cake]

madVR doesn't have a deinterlacer it just used the GPU provided deinterlacer if that's bad you get bad results if it is good you get good results.

Are you definitely sure about this?

I'm asking because on that Cowboy Bebop clip with [deint=Film], the Ctrl+J screen is actually reporting the cadence changes in realtime as I'm playing the intro sequence, as if to imply MadVR is detecting the cadence & is somehow involved in deinterlacing. Otherwise there would have to be some NVidia API where it's querying the cadence from the GPU driver?

[huhn]

yes i am because that is inverse telecine not deinterlacing.
and it does not work on interlaced source only telecine sources.

yes madVR has it's own field matching algorithm IVTC.

a modern deinterlacer in a TV does both at the same time BTW.
but interlaced output is not really possible with madVR and in general kind special to do on a PC. interlaced mode Chroma scaling(there is a more official name for that i don't know it) and image scaling is not use anyware as far as i know.

[tyner]

Would someone kindly reply to my post? As this is the madVR forum I'd expect it to be the best place for answers to my related hardware questions.

[huhn]

your link is dead.
laptop hardware is not easy to compare because the name of the GPU has no meaning how it is configurated.

you care about noise and power consumption but madVR is not power efficient it's hard if not impossible to judge a cooling system of a laptop they are not build to be silent under load.

[Sunspark]

tyner, this is a hobbyist forum and non-official support. This product isn't publicly developed anymore and the developer hasn't posted here in years as he is working on another project now.

For the purpose you indicated of scaling interlaced 480 DVD to 1080p, any device even a little ARM device can do it. Even your monitor can do it. Higher quality settings, sure, cpu and gpu plays a role there, but your source file is only 480i and you'll be able to do a lot with any machine these days, so focus on the other factors that might be good for the other uses of the device. Screen, keyboard, etc.

[tyner]

your link is dead.
laptop hardware is not easy to compare because the name of the GPU has no meaning how it is configurated.

you care about noise and power consumption but madVR is not power efficient it's hard if not impossible to judge a cooling system of a laptop they are not build to be silent under load. FWIW, does this work? https://www.notebookcheck.net/GeForce-GTX-1650-Ti-Mobile-vs-Quadro-T1000-Laptop-vs-Quadro-P2000_10227_9860_8886.247598.0.html

[tyner]

laptop hardware is not easy to compare because the name of the GPU has no meaning how it is configurated.

you care about noise and power consumption but madVR is not power efficient it's hard if not impossible to judge a cooling system of a laptop they are not build to be silent under load. To quote the user:

"A very humble PC can play back DVD to 1080p. Coffee Lake iGPU, from what I read, should max out at about 4K UHD @ 24fps. I played a DVD on a laptop that has an NVidia GTX 1650, at 1080p over HDMI, using MadVR. I couldn't quickly find a setting that was too demanding. It was able to use Jinc to upscale chroma and image, with anti-ringing filter. A similar card would be around $220, and is possibly overkill at that.

This may really be a question of tradeoffs among size, noise, performance, and maintainability (e.g. the ability to open the case). Even with all that in mind, the Celeron in the little industrial PC is good enough that I don't bother to play back DVDs on the much-more-powerful laptop. Depends how far you want to take it, in which direction. "

Considering the rest of his apparent hardware besides the 1650ti, it seems that he was able to use at least some of the upper madVR algorithms and yet didn't mention issues with fan noise and heat. My my laptop will likely be an HP 15" Zbook, SDD, 35 watt Comet Lake Xeon cpu. So I thought why not experiment between using the iGPU and the best of those three dedicated graphics. If the results balance well enough between scaling quality vs. heat/noise results with either iGPU or the discreet GPU then fine. Alternately, maybe the upgraded JRVR scaler in latest JRiver version?

[tyner]

tyner, this is a hobbyist forum and non-official support. This product isn't publicly developed anymore and the developer hasn't posted here in years as he is working on another project now.

For the purpose you indicated of scaling interlaced 480 DVD to 1080p, any device even a little ARM device can do it. Even your monitor can do it. Higher quality settings, sure, cpu and gpu plays a role there, but your source file is only 480i and you'll be able to do a lot with any machine these days, so focus on the other factors that might be good for the other uses of the device. Screen, keyboard, etc. Agreed, but like with audio, everything counts. Thus, IF the processor in this year's Sony 48" to 55" OLED TV I may go with leaves my best DVDs looking too soft (which may not be surprising having to interpolate loads of missing data from a 480 image to intelligibly fill a 4K screen), then might feeding it a signal that's first scaled to 1080p yield an overall better looking image?

I'm not, of course, therefore, expecting perfection but I just thought that as I'm looking to buy a fairly muscular laptop for the long term (see last post) why not go for discrete graphics device that strikes the best balance between scaling performance and power draw.

[lvqcl]

Agreed, but like with audio, everything counts.
What do you mean?

[el Filou]

FWIW, does this work? https://www.notebookcheck.net/GeForce-GTX-1650-Ti-Mobile-vs-Quadro-T1000-Laptop-vs-Quadro-P2000_10227_9860_8886.247598.0.htmlFrom those three, the 1650 Ti is better on paper because if you have more shader cores you can run the same workload at lower clocks for better efficiency and lower heat/noise, or run a higher workload, but as huhn said with laptops you need to see how the GPU is configured.
You could have one laptop with a 1024 cores part but badly designed cooling and it could get noisier than another with 768 cores running higher clocks. Some laptop manufacturers also limit the TDP and therefore the performance.

I have a 1050 Ti that is passively cooled in my HTPC and I can use NGU high to upscale DVDs and even the older HDR tonemapping to watch UHD BDs, but then its cooler is massive so I have no idea how that would translate to a laptop's performance (something lihgter like Jinc or Lanczos would be easy I think).

[flossy_cake]

Agreed, but like with audio, everything counts. Thus, IF the processor in this year's Sony 48" to 55" OLED TV I may go with leaves my best DVDs looking too soft (which may not be surprising having to interpolate loads of missing data from a 480 image to intelligibly fill a 4K screen), then might feeding it a signal that's first scaled to 1080p yield an overall better looking image?

imo the low resolution of DVD seems to benefit a lot from MadVRs sharpening options (processing > image enhancements). I mentioned some sharpening presets I was working on here (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1968113#post1968113) -- AdaptiveSharpen medium (strength = 0.4) seems to be my current preference if the source is a bit soft.

But the sharpening algorithm of my TV is interacting with it as well as I don't run 0 sharpness on my TV, so what I'm seeing isn't necessarily what you'll see.

Another factor is whether your PC is outputting 480p or 1080p/2160p. If the former, then your TV will probably do pre-resize sharpening to the 480p, and those sharpening artefacts will get enlarged when the TV upscales which tends to make the resulting image look much sharper and you might not feel the need to add any sharpening in MadVR.

Deinterlacing options will be important as well -- probably best to tick "automatically activate when needed" and untick both "disable automatic source type detection" and "only look at pixels in frame center". This is based on my assumption that MadVR's cadence detection is competent, but I haven't really checked it with enough sources to confirm that yet. DVDs and old content can sometimes have all kinds of janky cadence changes which can trip it up. I only have a few interlaced sources in my collection and I know in advance whether they are film or video based so I'm using the [deint=Film/Video] tag to the file/folder to force the best deinterlacing mode. By the sounds of it you have a large DVD collection and this could be too labour intensive to manually tag them all, hence my recommendation to use MadVRs auto detection.

[huhn]

auto detection doesn't work. if you have doubts you should use the deinterlacer.

[flossy_cake]

auto detection doesn't work.

I just checked it again now and you're right -- it doesn't work. It seems to just use video mode deinterlacing the whole time regardless of the source cadence.

Not sure why I didn't detect this earlier. I must have been looking for interlace mice teeth and not seeing them and thinking that must have meant it was working. When in reality it was just video mode deinterlacing.

So manually tagging parent folders or individual files with [deint=film/video] will be necessary to get the optimal deinterlacing. Although this is labour intensive, it's still much better than having to remember to manually change the setting in the GUI for every file, and it only needs to be done once per file. The fact that it works for parent folders is also a huge time saver. Most content tends to be film-based, so tagging top level folder with [deint=film] should suffice. However, for those exceptions when the content is video-based, it is somewhat annoying that tagging the file itself does not override the parent folder's tag. Although this could be worked around by placing all video-based files in a separately tagged folder.

[flossy_cake]

The answer to this is most likely "no", but is it possible to have MadVR forcibly downscale the video resolution?

I've got some old TV shows which are HD 1080p remasters, but the shows were made before HD was a thing, and I'm not sure the artistic intent is quite correct in HD. It feels like I'm seeing too much. I suppose an analogy might be like running PS1 games in HD or something. I mean it's technically better, but also different. I'd like to try downscaling these shows to around 480p or 576p internally if possible.

:thanks:

[ashlar42]

I am sure this has already been discussed but... is there a way to have madVR deinterlacing working when outputting 10bit?

The intersections between LAV D3D11 Native decoding and D3D11 Copy-Back,in LAV and Direct3D11 for presentation, in madVR are not 100% clear to me.

I understand that with native decoding madVR does not deinterlace due to using a CPU algorithm for IVTC, but should D3D11 Copy-Back allow both 10 bit output and deinterlacing?

I ask before testing because in case it's possible I might need to debug, if it's known to be impossible, well... no point in testing.

[lvqcl]

Copy-back is the same as software decoding (w.r.t. madVR)

[flossy_cake]

Well huhn has written that MadVR does not do any deinterlacing and the GPU does it. I compared my AMD vs NVidia GPU on those test files and they both deinterlace slightly differently despite running the same version and settings of MadVR and MPC-HC. I suspect MadVR performs cadence detection only, which could be used to tell GPU which method of deinterlacing to use, but that feature is broken anyway.

As for the comment that "copy-back doesn't do decoding w.r.t MadVR" I can't make sense of that statement as MadVR doesn't do any decoding as far as I can tell. I am using "DXVA2 copy-back" in LAV decoder and am definitely getting GPU accelerated decoding.

[ashlar42]

Well huhn has written that MadVR does not do any deinterlacing and the GPU does it. I compared my AMD vs NVidia GPU on those test files and they both deinterlace slightly differently despite running the same version and settings of MadVR and MPC-HC. I suspect MadVR performs cadence detection only, which could be used to tell GPU which method of deinterlacing to use, but that feature is broken anyway.

Asmodian's guide to madVR settings states that native D3D11 decoding stops IVTC from working because that's happening at CPU level and, with native, data never leaves the GPU (decoding -> madVR processing -> output or so I understood it)

madVR's IVTC is not functional when using DXVA2 or D3D11 native GPU decoding because madVR's IVTC algorithm runs on the CPU and the decoded video data is never copied to system memory.

As for the comment that "copy-back doesn't do decoding w.r.t MadVR" I can't make sense of that statement as MadVR doesn't do any decoding as far as I can tell. I am using "DXVA2 copy-back" in LAV decoder and am definitely getting GPU accelerated decoding.
Yeah, that's just wrong. There used to be a time when DXVA2 copy-back was the suggested setting and it most definitely allowed for hardware decoding.

[huhn]

I am sure this has already been discussed but... is there a way to have madVR deinterlacing working when outputting 10bit?

The intersections between LAV D3D11 Native decoding and D3D11 Copy-Back,in LAV and Direct3D11 for presentation, in madVR are not 100% clear to me.

I understand that with native decoding madVR does not deinterlace due to using a CPU algorithm for IVTC, but should D3D11 Copy-Back allow both 10 bit output and deinterlacing?

I ask before testing because in case it's possible I might need to debug, if it's known to be impossible, well... no point in testing.
some short facts.

madVR can't ivtc with native decode if it is DXVA2 or D3D11 it will not IVTC the data is not on the CPU where the algorithms needs it.
if copyback is used madVR can do everything because it doesn't care or may even know if it is software decoded or not.

10 bit can be deint (depends on your GPU driver as usual)
just software decode 10 bit or force p010 output play the file and press control + shift +alt + t or d or both. if you get video mode deint it will do it.

DXVA2 native can deint it is using the same API so it pretty much also ask it to deint.
D3D11 native can't deint at all madshi never implemented it and that's why it should not be recommended at all. this is just a problem with madVR D3D11 has a modern API for deint and as you can see in many other video renderer it work just the same or better as DXVA2.

the IVTC is not only doing cadence detection is is also field matching and repeat/field dropping it can even be applied to 60p with 24p in it and restore it. just the things an ivtc (inverse telecine) does.

[ashlar42]

Ok, thanks. Solved it. Using Kodi DSPlayer I can select DirectShow filters based on a variety of rules. I have all interlaced files with 480i/576i/1080i in their filename. When I play those, Kodi selects the internal version of LAV Video where I set up DXVA2 copy-back and madVR deinterlaces correctly. All other files are played with external LAV Video with D3D11 Native. madVR using Direct 3D 11 for presentation outputs in both cases 10 bits.

Glad to have finally managed to solve this pet peeve of mine.

Added decoding performance of D3D11 is frankly not needed for SD/HD material anyway (probably not needed anyway with my GPU but, well, as I said, pet peeve).

[Sunspark]

I've got some old TV shows which are HD 1080p remasters, but the shows were made before HD was a thing, and I'm not sure the artistic intent is quite correct in HD. It feels like I'm seeing too much. I suppose an analogy might be like running PS1 games in HD or something. I mean it's technically better, but also different. I'd like to try downscaling these shows to around 480p or 576p internally if possible.

You can change your display resolution, which will then force the need to downscale.

In my opinion though, while it's true the quality of the remastering can definitely vary there is more to it than just upscaling. They also mess with the colour grading, e.g. orange and teal, and gamma, etc. You can see these gamma shifts with anime for sure (e.g. different versions of cowboy bebop) and the colour grading, you can see this with other stuff. madvr can't fix that.

[flossy_cake]

You can change your display resolution, which will then force the need to downscale.

Yep that works, although I'm still not satisfied due to 480p not supporting 24hz on my system, and 480p over HDMI looks poor on my TV due to it having undefeatable overscan and it using Rec.709 coefficients which I can't correct with [matrix=601/709].

Also I may prefer to downscale the vertical resolution below 480p even, since the show in question would likely have had interlace filtering as well, further obscuring the apparent fakeness of the background sets.

What I really want is to tag a file like "myfile [downscale=720x360].mkv" and have MadVR downscale it to that res before scaling it to the display mode's resolution.

I thought there might be a way to do this using MadVR's "screen config" options to shrink the raster, and then zoom in with MPC-HC's controls or vice versa, but I can't get it to work.

Another option is to use MPC-HC's shader loading dialog where I can select a .hlsl shader file which could contain a downscale -> upscale pass. I would just need to find a .hlsl file for Lanczos or Bicubic scaling, but I'd still have to manually select it every time as MPC-HC doesn't seem to support file tagging (I've requested this in the MPC-HC thread).

Another option is MPC-HC claims to support opening .avs Avisynth files, and I could put in the .avs file:


AVISource("C:\myfile.mkv")
LanczosResize(720, 360)


But I can't get it to work -- error message "couldn't open the file".

edit: got it to work by using DirectShowSource() instead of AVISource():


DirectShowSource("C:\myfile.mkv") # a 4:3 video of resolution 1440x1080 square pixels
BicubicResize(720, 480) # downscale to SD
BicubicResize(720, 540) # correct aspect ratio to 4:3 square pixels (720/(4/3))
# then in MadVR: AdapiveSharpen strength 0.4


Another option is to just manually reencode the file myself to a lower resolution, but then I'd get generation loss.

The show I'm looking at currently is Lois & Clark The New Adventures of Superman. In HD it looks quite obvious that the characters are on a set and it looks a bit fake (clip (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Q2o0Cz-XLoCebiLWhC7xHN-uTyHjMUCN/view?usp=sharing)).


In my opinion though, while it's true the quality of the remastering can definitely vary there is more to it than just upscaling. They also mess with the colour grading, e.g. orange and teal, and gamma, etc. You can see these gamma shifts with anime for sure (e.g. different versions of cowboy bebop) and the colour grading, you can see this with other stuff. madvr can't fix that.

Yes I've noticed that too. Warner Bros seem to be one of the worst offenders -- many of the old classic movies now have different colour palettes and DNR.

[Sunspark]

The show I'm looking at currently is Lois & Clark The New Adventures of Superman. In HD it looks quite obvious that the characters are on a set and it looks a bit fake

It looks fine to me.. what I am noticing is that the gamma isn't quite right. It's a little washed out.

Try going into the madvr settings, "color & gamma" enable gamma processing checkbox on and for "pure power curve" change it from 2.20 to 1.80 which will make it lighter, and then 2.60 which will make it darker.. see which end is better for your display/eyes, then adjust it in 0.05 increments.

[flossy_cake]

It looks fine to me.. what I am noticing is that the gamma isn't quite right. It's a little washed out.

Try going into the madvr settings, "color & gamma" enable gamma processing checkbox on and for "pure power curve" change it from 2.20 to 1.80 which will make it lighter, and then 2.60 which will make it darker.. see which end is better for your display/eyes, then adjust it in 0.05 increments.

My TV is calibrated to 2.4 gamma and the contrast looks quite normal to my eyes. Perhaps you are noticing the "bloom" effect the show seems to use?

Anyway I was able to get Avisynth working so I can put any custom filters per-file, and activate them by double clicking my custom .avs file instead of opening the .mkv file. I am really pleased with this as I can now do all kinds of things, even audio delay per-file, blur, sharpen, adjust chroma alignment to fix that Family Guy clip hopefully etc.

[Polopretress]

Hello

I do not know if it is the good post to ask for a light change request in madvr and if not, please, could you give me the information.

Light change request but very important for Sony Projector Users that use the "Passthrough HDR" mode instead of the "DTM" :

Description:
On Sony Projector it is necessary to set manually the parameter called "HDR" to the value "HDR10" for movie 4000 Nits and to the value "HDR REFERENCE" for movies 1000 nits

Problem:
CTRL J of madvr displays Max CLL value but does not display MasteringDisplay_Luminance which is use to set correctly the parameter.
So that, it is needed to display the metadata via MediaInfo for each movie to know what setting to applied.

example extracted from MediaInfo
MasteringDisplay_Luminance : min: 0.0010 cd/m2, max: 1000.0000 cd/m2
MaxCLL : 5180 cd/m2
MaxFALL : 1577 cd/m2

madvr displays "HDR 5180 Nits"

Change request :
Add the parameter Max MasteringDisplay_Luminance to the CTRL J information

[flossy_cake]

My understanding is that the author (madshi) is busy working on another project and probably won't be taking feature requests.

Is there a reason why MediaInfo is not sufficient?

[lazostat]

Hi guys. I want to ask why WMPC with MadVR uses so high gpu power. It's like i am playing a game. Between 180-210w, while other players use only 30-50w. It's a huge difference!

Also, the only way to view 4k hdr remux is with madVR on Windows? Do i need to apply all those settings on some very long guides i read? I don't want upscale or other tweaks for a 4k movie.

Last, which version of madvr should i install in order to play HDR movies?

[flossy_cake]

Hi guys. I want to ask why WMPC with MadVR uses so high gpu power. It's like i am playing a game. Between 180-210w, while other players use only 30-50w. It's a huge difference!

What's WMPC? Do you mean Windows Media Player or Media Player Classic? The former is not supported according to madvr.com, the latter is. Is MadVR tray icon present when playing videos, or is MadHcCtrl.exe running in process list? Is GPU decoding acceleration active in both scenarios?



Also, the only way to view 4k hdr remux is with madVR on Windows?

Other renderers can play 4k HDR too, but MadVR does it best imo. You just need a decent GPU to decode the video, like probably a 1060 or better for high bitrate 4k60 HDR h.265. Compatibility list (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_NVDEC#GPU_support).

Do i need to apply all those settings on some very long guides i read?

Only if you want to use the latest beta version of MadVR which has autism levels of HDR tonemapping adjustments which I don't really agree with from a purely philosophical standpoint. The tonemapping options in the latest non-beta version are already quite generous and sufficient imo -- either select "passthrough HDR to display" and let your display determine how HDR should be displayed (my preference) or you can have MadVR do it by choosing "tone map HDR using pixel shaders" and enter your display's peak brightness and select either BT.2390 (kind of like soft clipping) or just clipping. You can also unlock a couple of extra tonemapping options by unticking "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" elsewhere.


Last, which version of madvr should i install in order to play HDR movies?

If you want the autism controls which looks like this (https://i.ibb.co/8Xzc3bn/1.png) then get the latest beta from here (https://www.videohelp.com/software/madVR/old-versions#download) (the ones appended with "measure" are the betas; 09217 is the last non-beta which you can also get from official site madvr.com). Or you could do as I've done and get the k-lite "full" pack (https://codecguide.com/download_kl.htm) which includes latest non-beta MadVR + MPC-HC + other filters needed to play all file types.

[EpsilonX]

Hi, quick question...
Using current 120Hz TV, if I play 23.976 fps or 24 fps content, what is the "best" option for MadVR..?
Switch to 23/24Hz or stay in 120Hz (since its 5x24)..?
Thank you.