madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Anime Viewer]

If you do a search in this thread, you'll find lots of posts about Optimus (mostly problems).

The Nvidia Control Panel is now a free download in the Microsoft Store. Try installing that way.
I still had Nvidia Control Panel in the Windows Control Panel, but I tried downloading it from the Microsoft Store like you suggested. Unfortunately as soon as I launched it is said it wasn't compatible. I'm thinking its not detecting the Nvidia GPU even though its in device manager, and the driver information there doesn't report any problems and says its running.

I have a similar old MSI rig (intel HD4000 + nvidia 650m) around with a dying Win8.1, so I thougth I'll put Win10 (1607 or preferably 1809) on it, but I was hesitant about driver issues.
Can you specify the following?
- which Win10 version do you use
- can you name or link the good driver versions for all the hardware components?

Thanks

I'm not sure what version I was running up to Saturday, but on Saturday while troubleshooting this issue I updated to version 20H2 of Windows 10. I don't know that the Windows 10 itself is the issue. I think it was most likely the Intel driver update for the HD 4000 that broke things. Prior to Saturday I hadn't been able to update my Windows version because of some stupid Microsoft message about UEFI not being compatible with one of the Windows updates (encountered that message more than a year ago). I got around it by changing settings in my BIOS and to turn off UEFI and use BIOS instead, and booting and updating to the newest Windows version from a flash drive. I don't know what driver version I was using prior to the current ones, but I can tell you what I'm currently running and thus what you might want to avoid. The current HD4000 driver is reporting as 10.18.10.5161 in device manager. The current Nvidia driver is reporting as 25.21.14.2531 in device manager.

[Hoi]

I asked this on another forum and I hope someone here maybe knows.

I got my Asus 3090 Strix GPU, upgraded from a 1080 ti. I have 2 questions:

Since 10 bit can be enabled on the Nvidia Control Panel, should I also enable 10 bit for my LG E9 and JVC NX7 in madVR properties for native display bitdepth? Or should I stay at 8 bit across the board?

I only watch native 1080p and 4K blu ray content. I now have chroma upscaling cranked up to NGU very high quality. Is there a general consensus of which is better between Sharp or Anti Alias, or is it more of a personal preference?

[VBB]

madshi posted a new test build over at AVS: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/post-60235595

In other news, hell just froze over...

[Asmodian]

10 bit depends on what mode you use for the HDMI port. When using PC mode use 8 bit for LG OLEDs but when in any other mode 10 bit is probably a good option.

I use PC mode to preserve full chroma resolution, madVR has great chroma scaling, but these TVs have worse banding in PC mode and everything before 2020 has poor HDR in PC mode. If you only watch video on it leaving it in HDMI mode and sending it 10 bit is a reasonable option.

Sharp v.s. AA is personal preference. I suggest comparing for yourself with a variety of content. Sharp is definitely nice and sharp but it can seem unnatural with some content while AA isn't as striking but always looks natural.

[ryrynz]

these TVs have worse banding in PC mode and everything before 2020 has poor HDR in PC mode.

Are we talking just LG here? Cos now I want to check to make sure my Panny HDR isn't somehow worse off in 4:4:4.

[VBB]

We only have data from LG OLED PC users. If you have a Panasonic OLED (or any other brand), please share your findings.

[chros]

Panasonic Oled should be "better" than LG, but it can't do judder free 23p vai PC mode.

[ryrynz]

Haven't noticed any HDR issues with Puredirect enabled which gives me 4:4:4, just ran a 10% grey screen and enabled/disabled Puredirect and saw zero difference.

Just wondering, other OLED users.. how is your black calibration? Do you get 17 or 18 flashing with a test pattern? I think without a proper calibration I'm not going to get it but
I might not want it to given OLED issues near black anyway. I've been able to scale up 2.5 IRE a little to get 18 just barely showing up on the panel.

[mclingo]

i can get it flashing on 17 but this elevates my black slightly so my black bars are ever so slightly grey in a pitch black room so I usually run mine 19 and above flashing.

[mclingo]

madshi posted a new test build over at AVS: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/post-60235595

In other news, hell just froze over...

i'm seeing an improvement in general picture dynamics with this, everything just seems to have a little more pop in HDR

[VBB]

This is better suited for the OLED thread, but here is my favorite brightness test pattern. It's different and works better than all the others, because it does not have any bright elements:

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/lg-oleds-how-to-enhance-near-black-detail.2579537/page-5#post-46798617

[ryrynz]

These ones here are also good. No bright elements with the black just a simple shifting bar, also has white level and gamma clip test files.
ttps://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1230259#post1230259 (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1230259#post1230259)

[VBB]

Something's wrong with SDR LUTs in the 114 build. I have a LUT in every slot, and when I play something BT.709, madVR uses the DCI-P3 LUT, and the whole screen turns blue. If I remove the DCI-P3 LUT from the slot, it then selects the BT.2020 LUT, and so on. Even if I leave only the BT.709 LUT, it doesn't look right when in use. Anyone else experience this?

[Grimsdyke]

On my 'weaker' system I have to use D3D11-Native in LAV but this gives me a completely green screen with the new Beta.
Choosing the GPU in LAV's settings fixes that but then performance is bad.

[Rafael-57]

Please, I beg you, any way to limit Madvr performance?

Rendering speed goes sonic on my 3080 and it causes MAD Coil Whine, rendering 1080p doubling with NGU sharp very high at 11/12ms.

If I limit GPU clock to -500 and Power limit to 50% it still renders in 18ms, without any frame drops, while almost silencing the GPU. Is there any chance that we could get a performance limiter inside the program??

Something that won't let the GPU stress too much until rendering time is not approaching 20/30ms???? NGU is the only thing that causes BAD coil whine for me, and you can't just limit the FPS since it's just 30-60Hz videos...

[ryrynz]

Please, I beg you, any way to limit Madvr performance?


It's called scaling back your settings. There will be no limiter, it's completely up to you what you dial in and the whine you get from it.
This is your hardware 'at fault', nothing will change software wise to mitigate this issue.

[Siso]

Sharp v.s. AA is personal preference. I suggest comparing for yourself with a variety of content. Sharp is definitely nice and sharp but it can seem unnatural with some content while AA isn't as striking but always looks natural.

How about NGU Standart, isn't it the middle ground between anti-alias and sharp?

[chros]

On my 'weaker' system I have to use D3D11-Native in LAV but this gives me a completely green screen with the new Beta.
Choosing the GPU in LAV's settings fixes that but then performance is bad.
Same here.
Something's wrong with SDR LUTs in the 114 build. I have a LUT in every slot, and when I play something BT.709, madVR uses the DCI-P3 LUT, and the whole screen turns blue. If I remove the DCI-P3 LUT from the slot, it then selects the BT.2020 LUT, and so on. Even if I leave only the BT.709 LUT, it doesn't look right when in use. Anyone else experience this?
Hmm. But guys don't post bugs here, no one reads them :) Post it on the AVS thread instead. And as soon as possible, because who knows when will be the next time when he will have time if ever :)

[Hoi]

10 bit depends on what mode you use for the HDMI port. When using PC mode use 8 bit for LG OLEDs but when in any other mode 10 bit is probably a good option.

I use PC mode to preserve full chroma resolution, madVR has great chroma scaling, but these TVs have worse banding in PC mode and everything before 2020 has poor HDR in PC mode. If you only watch video on it leaving it in HDMI mode and sending it 10 bit is a reasonable option.

Sharp v.s. AA is personal preference. I suggest comparing for yourself with a variety of content. Sharp is definitely nice and sharp but it can seem unnatural with some content while AA isn't as striking but always looks natural.

Thank you! Is it possible that setting chroma upscaling to very high look worse compared to just high?

[huhn]

very unlikely with NGU but a easily with other scaler.

high and very high should look barely any different on chroma there shouldn't be a difference.

[TheDarkTemplar]

Hello! I keep getting this crash in MPC-HC about 50% of the time I open and fullscreen a video:

https://drdump.com/UploadedReport.aspx?DumpID=49079987

It is apparently an issue in MadVR. Is there some workaround to this or will it be fixed at some point? It's not the worst issue ever since I can just relaunch again but it's a bit annoying.

I think it may be related to switching out of HDR since I am generally fullscreening non-HDR videos.

I am still getting this a lot. Does anyone know of a workaround like some setting I can toggle off to stop the crashes?

It actually does not seem to be related to HDR at all as I have had that disabled in Windows for some time.

It often happens when playing a video that had been paused for 15+ mins as well, in addition to when fullscreening a video I just opened as originally mentioned.

[Asmodian]

Sounds like GPU stability at first glance.

Both of those situations cause the GPU load to spike for a short time.

[clsid]

No, it is most likely a bug in madVR.

This one equals 2.7% of total amount of MPC-HC crashes.

[ryrynz]

How about NGU Standart, isn't it the middle ground between anti-alias and sharp?

Like Asmodian said, it's personal preference and the results greatly depend on your screen settings, distance and content.. Choose what you prefer.

[Asmodian]

No, it is most likely a bug in madVR.

Interesting, 0.92.17 feels very stable for me. Is this with the HDR betas?

[ryrynz]

Interesting, 0.92.17 feels very stable for me. Is this with the HDR betas?

He said it started happening about a month ago after updating his drivers possibly but reverted and it's still happening after he thought it was fixed. Has to be something system related, never had a single problem myself and neither did he up until recently. Apparently little has changed with his system before this started happening.. so *shrug* The likelihood of it being a madVR bug I think is quite low.

TheDarkTemplar, I'd suggest trying a system restore to a time before this started happening for a possibly quick fix.

[mclingo]

..... :) dont know how any of you guys can use smooth motion, I try it again now and again to see if i've become less sensitive to its issues as it does makes playback /start / stop quicker and more stable in general I find, but I just cant get past the blurryness, doesnt it kind of defeat the object all the extra processing you are putting into MADVR to have it blurred and messy using smooth motion?, or does it just look particularly bad on OLEDs over LCDs as LCD's already have smearing between frames?

I was hoping MADSHI would get around to improving this algo at some point to the point where everyone used it and refresh rate switching no longer mattered.

[clsid]

Interesting, 0.92.17 feels very stable for me. Is this with the HDR betas?It isn't a type of crash that is easily reproducible. So most people will never have this issue. I have crash dumps for madshi, so it is just a matter of him having time to look at it.

[huhn]

@mclingo
did you make sure any motion processing is disabled in your TV.

[QBhd]

I have never been a fan of smooth motion... to me it is blurry, but that it is what is meant to do. I only have one problem with motion on my OLED and that is the jitter. But that is a by product of the type of panel. I have found a nice compromise that works for me. Since I can't stand banding that comes with PC mode (yes it is a total deal breaker for me), I just use the standard HDMI mode. As such I do have the option to use the TV's TruMotion... Now don't get me wrong, motion interpolation is terrible, but LG has a slider that goes from 1-10 for De-Judder and De-Blur (Motion Pro is off, that is terrible). I use a De-Judder of 2 and a De-Blur of 0 and when paired with a 23.976 Hz refresh rate it seems to reduce the "jitter" of the panel without the dreaded "soap-opera" effect that comes with motion interpolation. It is subtle, and I still see the "jitter" from time to time, but it is not as pronounced and it is something I can live with.

QB

[VBB]

@mclingo - Did you by any chance use SM outside of 60Hz? That would make it very blurry, yes. Even though I'm currently taking a break from SM, I find that on OLEDs in particular, it really helps to reduce the stutter in pans and fast motion.

madshi wants to implement interpolation, but it is currently unclear whether that will be an Envy exclusive or eventually make its way into madVR. As much as I hate the soap opera effect, I certainly wouldn't mind a superior version without artifacts built right into our favorite software.

[iSeries]

I use a De-Judder of 2

Me too on my C8. I only rarely see interpolation artifacts at this low setting, but what I do see is much smoother and sharper motion without any 'soap opera effect'. I find 24p with RealCinema headache inducing, the judder is just too much.

[mclingo]

Hi yeah I using 60hz and I turned off all motion interpolation on my TV, with it on its unwatchable, dont get me wrong its not terrible, on a static image it looks just as good but as soon as things start to move it become a bit blurry. The reason I want to use it at all is I cant get rid of a problem I have with some content and I know its not the content itself as it plays fine on my other LCD TV. Essentially every now and again I a jitter that looks like its skips a few frames but when I check MADVR it hasnt skipped any. I can pretty much cure this by turn try motion off but IMHO you have to have some interpolation on OLED as movement can look quite jarring sometimes as the response time is so quick the there is no smearing between frames like you get on an LCD. For the most part a quick response time is a good thing but it can leave what looks like jagged edges to elements on screen moving quickly accross it.

I dont have any issues with my 1080p bluray remuxes but I have some issues with some 4k bluray remuxes, I also have issues with some downloaded streamed rips, all again tested on my other TV to be fine.

My ageing OLED seems to have picked up a bit of a flutter with some 4k HDR material, if I tone map to SDR however instead of sending a HDR signal to my TV this also resolves the problem.

untimately running everything at SDR through MADVR with tonemapping resolves the issue so I can just leave it as is but I always feel i'm missing something not using the full HDR capabilites of my TV, but i'm sure i'm not as it was only 420 nits new and its 5 years old so it will likely be lower than that now.

I use trumotion 2, that for me gives the best balance, zero soap opera affect and a bit of smoothing.

[Asmodian]

Smooth motion at 120+ Hz is where it really starts to shine IMO.

There are a lot more high refresh rate displays available today so smooth motion is more usable than ever.

I can pretty much cure this by turn try motion off but IMHO you have to have some interpolation on OLED as movement can look quite jarring sometimes as the response time is so quick the there is no smearing between frames like you get on an LCD.

At 60 Hz the blending does look softer but at 120+ Hz smooth motion works really well on OLEDs, just enough blurring to help this issue with 24 fps content but not enough to make the image appear noticeably softer.

I also find I don't really like maximum sharpness. My content is good enough and my screen small enough that maximizing sharpness isn't better. I usually use NGU AA instead of NGU Sharp now too, maybe I just like a softer image. :o

I use PC mode with no interpolation or other motion help on the TV. Back to 444 limited range from the GPU due to near black banding with full range RGB. :(

[Alexkral]

I assume this isn't going to sound very popular, but in my experience, once you get used to motion interpolation, what actually looks terrible sometimes is when you're not using it, especially in camera movements. Anyway I'm talking about SVP, I have hardly tested the motion interpolation of my TV, but I remember that when I did it it produced a lot of lag, and I didn't like it. With SVP using the default settings at 60Hz there are quite a few artifacts, but they can be greatly reduced by adjusting the settings and doing some tricks. There is blurring in fast-moving scenes, but it is not very noticeable and can also be reduced. At 120Hz on the laptop I haven't tested it much yet, but I still can't recall seeing any artifacts or blurring at all.

I don't use it to get more realism, but simply because in my opinion it looks better. I admit that at first most of the time I didn't like it, everything seems much more real, the sets look like the sets they are, the actors look like actors instead of the characters they play, but now I rarely have that feeling. So the problem in my case is that I had to spend some time with that feeling that sometimes I didn't like what I was seeing, which I did mostly out of curiosity. Now most of the time I don't even have a problem using it in old color movies. Only old black and white movies look too good.

And believe it or not, I'm a cinephile.

[mclingo]

i tend to agree with that, as long as its applied judiciously.

[VBB]

Oh, absolutely. Your brain needs time to adjust. It goes both ways. When I first got my OLED, I came from a pretty decent LCD, which I had used with a bit of motion interpolation. Sitting much closer to the OLED, I couldn't stand the stutter, so I immediately turned on TruMotion. I would slowly work my way up until eventually, months later, I ended up with de-judder at 5! SOE sets in at about 3... I had gotten used to it, but then I watched Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade one day, and the first scene in Venice has a vertical pan along the canal, if I remember correctly, and the artifacting was so bad that I quit using TM that day. Haven't looked back, even though it took some time again to get used to the stutter. These days, I notice the stutter, but it's not jarring, and I do very much prefer the natural look of motion. Would I go back to using interpolation? I think so, if it was built into madVR. I am not a fan of any processing done by the display, because it pretty much always causes issues: video delay, artifacts, improper pull-down, and so on. I feel like PC mode on the LGs is as pure as it gets, flaws and all.

[QBhd]

I came from a silky smooth plasma to OLED... So the jitter for me was doubly strong.

QB

[mclingo]

LG tru motion does a really good job in my opinion, I see no issues at all all the way up to 3 but I use 2, yeah i'd much prefer to see something like in MADVR but looking at how slow things happen these days Its doubtful we'll see any motion tweaks from MADSHI for years.

[ausvette]

I have a really weird problem. Using Windows 10 all latest updates with a 2080ti latest drivers, also earlier drivers.

I'm using madvr v113 and v114 with Kodi 17.7 dsplayer.

When I use madvr with mpc-be outside kodi there are no problems. everything works normally.

As soon as I use report bt2020 to display with Kodi 17.7 dsplayer, the video levels are changed from full range 0-255 to limited range 16-235 and jvc projector reports bt2020 color always. The nvidea settings remain unchanged and changing them and changing them back doesn't make any difference. All settings look good, but the drivers operation is now permanently locked to limited range and bt2020 output.

Once this happens the only way I've found to get back to normal operation is to delete the drivers and reinstall.

Rebooting pc, turning off the entire system all makes no difference.

I'm really at a loss as to cause of this and how to trouble shoot it.

[Scrambler]

Hi,

Is it possible to implement Dolby Vision metadata passthrough (just like HDR10 currently implemented) for compatible devices (TV's, ASUS PA32UCX monitor, etc)?
Combining this with fullscreen display modes switching (which is already implemented) would solve the problem of proper Dolby Vision playback on Windows machines.

Thanks.

[*MidnightWatcher*]

New test build v114 from Madshi

http://madshi.net/madVRhdrMeasure114.zip

Notes on this release found here (https://www.avsforum.com/threads/improving-madvr-hdr-to-sdr-mapping-for-projector.2954506/page-486#post-60235595).

[ND2560]

Can someone tell me if/where it's possible to turn off HDR on a 4k HDR file in potplayer or madvr setiings? But without turning the picture grey lookin...just SDR 4k

[Asmodian]

HDR isn't something you can turn off like that. The file is encoded as HDR, it will look very washed out if you view it on an SDR display without an active conversion. You need to tone map it to your display.

Use madVR's HDR tab to tone map.

Is it possible to implement Dolby Vision metadata passthrough (just like HDR10 currently implemented) for compatible devices (TV's, ASUS PA32UCX monitor, etc)?

No one has the documentation needed to process Dolby Vision. You need to pay a lot of money for the docs to be able to support Dolby Vision, even for a "simple" passthrough. :(

[SamuriHL]

That's not entirely accurate anymore. In fact, it's not even remotely accurate anymore. A lot of work has been done in the last year on Dolby Vision. We now have an MKV spec for it. We're able to play those on Dolby Vision capable devices like the SHIELD, firestick, and others. What's needed for PC playback is a few things. First a decoder. Some of the drivers for nVidia and Intel at least seem to have Dolby Vision support for some things (netflix? gaming? I don't know) so there's a possibility that something like LAV Video could find a way to utilize that functionality. Then you would need a Dolby Vision capable renderer, which is what the ask is here. madshi has shown exactly zero interest in doing something like that. Given the time he's spending on Envy, we're LUCKY to have a new HDR tone mapping build for madvr right now. Maybe at some far off future point when Envy is selling like hotcakes, the tensor core algorithms he wants to create are created, HDR tone mapping is perfected, etc he might be convinced to revisit. But right now? Not a chance of it happening. But from a technical perspective, at least, it MIGHT be able to be done.

[QBhd]

We wouldn't need a DV capable renderer per say... just a chain that will allow passthrough. The end device will process the DV (e.g. my LG C8)... I was just talking about this today at work :) And as far as I know, there is yet to be a PC chain that can do this... by chain I mean player, decoder, renderer, and GPU driver.... I am sure all would need to be able to passthrough the DV for it to work.

QB

[SamuriHL]

And we have a container for it now and the ability to create them. Man wouldn't that be nice but is wildly off topic for this thread for the moment. As I mentioned, it doesn't seem like madshi has any interest in this at all right now. Not to say someday he wouldn't but that doesn't help us now. I wonder (and this doesn't mean go pester him about it!!) is Nev would have any interest in looking at the decoding side of this for LAV Video? A gentle inquiry to see if there's any interest at all wouldn't necessarily hurt over in the LAV thread. And if he says no, then we can kill the idea for now.

[Alexkral]

I have the docs, and maybe it would be possible to implement something very similar even without a decoder by analyzing the image statistics. The problem is that it's a proprietary standard, so you'll need to pay for a license to do it. The same goes for HDR10+, but the license is probably more affordable.

[SamuriHL]

Such stupid standards.

[mclingo]

Can someone tell me if/where it's possible to turn off HDR on a 4k HDR file in potplayer or madvr setiings? But without turning the picture grey lookin...just SDR 4k


hi if you untick "send HDR to display" in MADVR it wil automatically tone map the HDR movie to SDR, therefore it wont be washed out, this is ideal for those of us with none HDR TV's, projectors and early generation HDR tv's with very low NITs