madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[xxx666yyy777]

I am curious. I have a laptop with an Intel 4500MHD + 9600M GT and when I attempt to use MadVR on the 4500MHD, I get a message telling me that the graphics card only support power of 2 textures. If there was a setting created to bypass that warning, would there be a way to allow MadVR to run, or is it fundamentally impossible because of how MadVR is written?





Which Forceware drivers are you using?

My 9600M GT appears to experience similar issues with 190.xx drivers, but is fine with 186.81. I am using MadVR 0.10 with MPC from CCCP 9-09-09 + Reclock 1.8.4.8 (everything otherwise default settings).

I am getting the same message. Running MPC-HC 1.3.1249.0, madVR 1.0, Win XP+SP3, Intel(R) G41 Express Chipset.

Anyone any idea?

Thx.

[yesgrey]

Anyone any idea?
If you want to use madVR, you need a new graphics card. All the new support textures not power of two. Only very old models do not support it. Don't expect madshi to change this, because it's a problem only with old gpu, which also very hardly will have the shader power for running madVR...

[chuuey]

well if madshi decides to update this some time, i would like to test the future versions, hopefully they will work fine :) very weird though that 0.10 won't even budge on my end when 0.09 works fine ;)

[Kazuya]

tried to check "disable tearing fix" in mVR?
you could also try Reclock b49 and force VSYNC correction.

Ok, I will try ! ;)

[namaiki]

Yes i actually am, but even if use FFDshow same thing occurs, when i launch a file with 0.10 mpc loads all the filters in the tray menu, but the playback doesn't even start, remains at 00:00, and the player itself freezes, i have to manually quit the process ;(

btw 0.09 works just fine with coreavc and cuda.. ;)

My experience with a GeForce 9600M GT (186.81); 1280x720 video @ 1920x1080 (via VGA).

0.9
CUDA off - a bit jerky
CUDA on - did not try

0.10
CUDA off - smooth
CUDA on - major lag

When using 190.62, 0.10 freezes at loading, 0.9 loads, but is still jerky.

[leeperry]

yes, I think that's because CUDA increases latency...I got hiccups on 1080p stuff but not 720p. going software decoding worked fine on 1080p.

and when I start playback, there's a very noticeable latency due to CUDA.

[xxx666yyy777]

If you want to use madVR, you need a new graphics card. All the new support textures not power of two. Only very old models do not support it. Don't expect madshi to change this, because it's a problem only with old gpu, which also very hardly will have the shader power for running madVR...

Got it.

Thanks!

[honai]

Not only "old GPUs". The Intel 4500HD onboard GPU (found e.g. on the DG45FC, DG45ID) suffers from the same problem.

[Kazuya]

I watched 3 movies since my last post and didn't have any vsync lost. :)
But to use ffdshow for subtitles is very annoying... :(

And I think there's no other way...

[yesgrey]

And I think there's no other way...
You can use vobsub instead of ffdshow, or you can do like me...
I don't use subs, and that helps me improving my english.:D

[Mark_A_W]

That should be "improve my English", Yesgrey ;)


But you will need subs. Many English language films have small amounts of subs (think Kill Bill for instance). You can't speak every language.


And yes, DirectVobSub (aka VSFilter) works fine.


Mark

[Kazuya]

Why I didn't succeed with Directvobsub ? :eek:

[yesgrey]

That should be "improve my English", Yesgrey ;)
Thanks. The foruns also help. ;)

Many English language films have small amounts of subs (think Kill Bill for instance). You can't speak every language.
That's true, but generally those subs are embedded in the image...

[yesgrey]

Why I didn't succeed with Directvobsub ? :eek:
Which player are you using?
With mpc-hc I had to add the vobsub to the external filters list and set it as "prefer" to make it work.

[Kazuya]

I use KMP final, and ok, after setup the last version of DirectVobSub, it works fine ! :)
Thanks for make me try again ! :p

Edit : for external subtitles, but embedded it's not good for the moment. I'm working on that...
Same problem than ffdshow, it takes the first external subtitle, even if the name is totally different, instead of the embedded. Arf...

[allak]

Why I didn't succeed with Directvobsub ? :eek:

Are you using the internal MPC-HC decoder ? That could be the problem.

Last time I did check (back in May) it seemed to only output YUY2, while madVR only accepts YV12.

YMMV, but you could try to use the ffdshow decoder.

EDIT: ops, the reason was completely different; please ignore this.

[Kazuya]

Well, with the 2.39 version of VobSub, all seems to work fine.

With "extend to 16:9" I can have subtitles in the back of 2.35 movies, and if I put VobSub in first place just before ffdshow, subtitles are not processed by ffdshow. Good !!! :)

Ah ah, I find a bad point !! :p
There's no hotkeys to change subtitles or hide them.

And the subpticture pin is still needed too for the OSD of the player.

[pie1394]

Just think if madshi does not have much time to do major improvements over v0.10, there could be some helpful changes which can be done w/o taking him too many efforts. Ex:

- The fix on setting Luma scaling method?
- Allow to adjust the upload and rendering queue sizes?
- Any other internal existing parameters which might not be fully optimized yet?

[Hypernova]

Just think if madshi does not have much time to do major improvements over v0.10, there could be some helpful changes which can be done w/o taking him too many efforts. Ex:

- The fix on setting Luma scaling method?
- Allow to adjust the upload and rendering queue sizes?
- Any other internal existing parameters which might not be fully optimized yet?

If you look back to when the develoment stop, you would see that madshi is so busy he can't even post here. I know everyone (and me too) get the feeling that the setting bug is easy to fix and you only take a couple seconds to fix, but who knows? Other things is automatically out of question. We can just hope madshi will finally get enough free time soon.

[leeperry]

I wouldn't mind him turning mVR donation-ware(a la neuron2), so he'd be more motivated to invest time in this very promising VR. nothing's free in this world, and if 100 ppl or more donated $15/$25 as a starter...it wouldn't be wasted time.

free does not work, either you have to add some bogus toolbar in the install setup or ask for donations IMVHO. many great projects like HR or MPC are cursed because of the lack of coders....skilled coders hardly ever work for free! if they go free to end-users, usually their goal is to sell the end product for commercial use.

well, Didėe does the most amazing Avisynth scripts for free...but he's an exception I guess :D

[Thunderbolt8]

nothing's free in this worldair, love

[pankov]

love isn't free even now
for the air we'll see in a couple of decades
;)

[leeperry]

"there's nothing more expensive than free sex", some old man taught me a while ago ;)

BTW, the latest nvidia 191.03 beta drivers gave me some nasty freezes on XP SP3 w/ my GF9600...it froze for one second at closing down KMP, then 3 small vertical bars appeared at the bottom of the screen...and it took like 5 mins for the task manager to show up after I pressed CTRL+ALT+DEL...time to roll back.

and when I close KMP, I often get a DrWatson error msg in the XP SP3 event viewer saying that KMP crashed because of madVR..

"KMP generated an application error. The generated exception was c0000005 at the adress 0610D227 (madVR)"

this doesn't happen w/ HR

[markanini]

personally I'd like to see more scaling options such as blackman and eedi/nedi. I hate aliasing:mad:
:p

[namaiki]

the latest nvidia 191.03 beta drivers gave me some nasty freezes on XP SP3 w/ my GF9600

Which nvidia drivers did you roll back to? I experience freezes when closing a player with MadVR when using 190.62..

[leeperry]

Which nvidia drivers did you roll back to? I experience freezes when closing a player with MadVR when using 190.62..
the latest WHQL, I also get 1/2" freezes + error msg in the event viewer...but it doesn't freeze the system for 5 minutes like the latest beta drivers.

come complain in here if you wanna see it fixed: crashes in 1435 with madVR when closing down KMP - The KMPlayer's Forums (http://www.kmplayer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14975)

but maybe the problem really comes from madVR? that's what the event viewer error msg says...and if I disable DrWatson, I get a windows error msg "memory XXX cannot be read"

MPC never closes down properly for me, so I can't tell. it always stays as a system process...none of this occurs w/ HR in KMP.

[rpm7200]

madvr freezed always players [mpc, kmplayer] always. not working for me.

[iSunrise]

...but maybe the problem really comes from madVR?
I´m most certain that it is a problem with madVR 0.10, but then, even madshi wrote in his change log that 0.10 needs work.

He did that because he knew that something in the code isn´t quite right, but he released it anyway for the community to test and find bugs. madVR 0.10 also "behaves" differently with different media players, which I´m not really sure why that is, exactly.

The only thing I know is that I tested a lot of different combinations with players like ZoomPlayer (latest RC) and kmplayer (latest final) and I found out that 0.9 works just perfectly and never crashed on the machines I tested it. Sadly, it is outdated.

0.10 works perfectly fine most of the time but it occasionally crashes the player application itself and you have to kill the process. If after that first crash you start your player application again (without a reboot), the crashes will happen more often, until the point where you definately need a reboot.

e.x. I can easily force madVR 0.10 to crash when I´m using it with Zoom Player. You just have to skip a lot (forward and backward) or open another movie while you´re already playing one. kmplayer however, works a lot better, the crashes still happen, but a lot less.

So, until madshi comes around again and fixes things, we have to live with specific combinations of an OS, driver, player and madVR release, we find out works best for us.

For now, I´ve switched to kmplayer, EVR-CP, avisynth (t3dlut) and NV12 and mainly ffdshow again, since it gives me very good results on a lot of different file formats and codecs and I´m quite happy with that. Nvidia´s deinterlacing is a lot better than I thought, I even like it better than yadif, but that may be just me.

[lych_necross]

personally I'd like to see more scaling options such as blackman and eedi/nedi. I hate aliasing:mad:
:p
That would be nice, but I think nnedi and eedi are way too cpu intensive to realtime usage.

[Hypernova]

personally I'd like to see more scaling options such as blackman and eedi/nedi. I hate aliasing:mad:
:p

I think madshi will be happy to add those as long as he doesn't have to code the algorithm himself. I remember that he was quite disatisfied when 4770 seem to be happily eat any scaling he throw at it. :)

[Leak]

I think madshi will be happy to add those as long as he doesn't have to code the algorithm himself. I remember that he was quite disatisfied when 4770 seem to be happily eat any scaling he throw at it. :)
Sorry to burst your bubble, but NNEDI is very probably waaay to complex to implement in shaders - and Tritical hasn't released the source for it anyway...

np: Thom Yorke - Cymbal Rush (The Field Late Night Essen Und Trinken Remix) (The Eraser Rmxs)

[pie1394]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but NNEDI is very probably waaay to complex to implement in shaders - and Tritical hasn't released the source for it anyway...

np: Thom Yorke - Cymbal Rush (The Field Late Night Essen Und Trinken Remix) (The Eraser Rmxs)

EDDI seems to perform quite well at near horizontal edge. It impoves some drawbacks over the ELA method.

Yet these edge-based DCDi deinterlacing methods still have some drawbacks at gradient and complex bitmap pattern parts. Random noise could still happen. It looks even ugly after the image is rescaled.

An effective method to prevent this is to use 5-tap VT deinterlacing result on the pixels which EDDI/ELA calculated one is too different from the original signal value (Usually >21 for 8-bit color value). According to some experiences, it often takes over 1 ~ 3% pixels for almost static interlaced images. It is often about 10% for regular motion type images.

Although 5 or 7-tap VT deinterlacing is very expensive for pure circuit design, it is still very reasonable for GPU-based engine.

[namaiki]

This may or may not have been answered, but are MadVR's default settings, the recommended settings for a very neutral up and downscaling, or are they basically just a conservative selection that should work fine for most videos?

If it is the latter, what are some recommended scaling options?

[madshi]

Basically MPC-HC(or the external filters) should ask for admin rights only when really needed. (prompt uac on action that requires admin rights if not already running with admin rights)
That's too complicated for my taste. You can change NTFS attributes for the "settings.ini", I guess, to allow write access for Everyone. That should fix the problem. Maybe I'll implement a better solution later. I could just write to registry, but I prefer to store settings in an ini file cause that's more transportable (when using multiple PCs).

at some point could you give an option to set different LUT's for different displays? based on the windows display name is cool!
Yes, "at some point".

Actually I can't believe using DXVA with madVR is impossible, it's just that madVR doesn't seem to support the interfaces neccessary to accept video frames that are already on the graphics card.
You seem to be right. Casimir (from MPC HC) has been so kind to send me some code which *might* (or not) make madVR DXVA decoding capable. I've not really tried it yet, and I don't really know if it will work properly, but there is a chance that madVR might work with DXVA decoding after all.

I've now watched two complete movies, without the slightest jump/jerk/stutter/nothing. Perfectly smooth, for hours on end.

[...]

So thank you for you efforts so far, this is the smoothest playback I have ever seen from a PC. And it does seem to me that Vista32 is still the path of least resistance for a HTPC.

[...]

I've now watched numerous movies with madVR 0.10 and Reclock (active) and playback at 96hz is basically perfect.

I've compared to MPC-HC EVR custom (Beliyaal) with and without Reclock active, and with MPC + Gothplayer mods (reclock slaved).

I get the best smoothness with madVR + Reclock active.
madvr 0.10+reclock and d3doverride enabled with mpc hc works perfectly smooth also.
Glad to hear that, guys, thanks for the feedback. BTW, d3doverride should have no effect on madVR.

I would like to signal that MadVR doesn't work with INTEL GMA950 (Asus EEEPC 1000H) graphic chipset + MPC.
I am curious. I have a laptop with an Intel 4500MHD + 9600M GT and when I attempt to use MadVR on the 4500MHD, I get a message telling me that the graphics card only support power of 2 textures.
The problem with Intel GPUs is that they don't support custom texture sizes. It would be possible for madVR to work around that, and I might do that sooner or later. But even then I'm not sure if these GPUs are fast enough for smooth playback with madVR...

I would say don't get your hope too high. My card was ATi HD2600 Pro and it can barely manage to give me a "smooth" playback with any resizer beyond bilinear.
FWIW, I still see some optimization potential. So it's possible that madVR will get a bit faster. More importantly: In fullscreen exclusive mode (not implemented yet) madVR should get quite a big performance boost.

theres a problem with madVR not displaying 4:3 (mpeg2, 1080i, .ts & mpc-hc) movies correctly (at least on my 5:4 screen). black bars get eliminated and the image is therefore stretched vertically to fill the area where the black bars used to be at top and bottom, resulting in a wrong AR. everything's too slim. occurs in both, window mode and fullscreen.
This is probably a miscommunication between the decoder and madVR. The various decoders out there all behave slightly different. Sometimes if I adjust madVR to "understand" one decoder better, this breaks things with another decoder... :( So I'd suggest that you try out some other decoders. Some will probably work just fine. I might find a solution which works with all decoders at some time, but my focus is on other things right now.

If you want to use hardware deinterlacing, the YUV --> RGB conversion will also be done by the GPU drivers, and avoiding this is the whole point of madVR. So hardware deinterlacers and madVR are two incompatible things.
To be honest, I'm not sure how hardware deinterlacing is done. As said above, Casimir has sent me some code which might make DXVA *decoding* work, but I don't think that includes hardware deinterlacing. Maybe it would also be possible to make hardware deinterlacing work, but I don't know how. And I don't know whether enabling hardware deinterlacing would result in color conversion being done by the GPU. It seems that DXVA decoding does not make the GPU convert color space.

I've found this problem when I watch films (m2ts) on my system. [...] The tearing is a orrible cutting line in the lower portion of the image
I'm not sure why you're getting tearing. The final fix for this will be fullscreen exclusive mode. Don't know if I will be able to fix this in windowed mode.

ouh, it's super stable and super smooth in 23.976@48.000Hz in KMP...plus mVR looks sharper than HR :cool:
Glad you like it!

if somehow madshi and James could sync their renderers, this would be the icing on the cake
I don't think will be necessary with the "final" madVR release.

Allow to adjust the upload and rendering queue sizes?
I don't expect this to have any effect, once I've fixed up all the issues in madVR 0.10. I plan to offer a switch for 1, 2 or 3 threaded rendering. madVR 0.9 used 1 thread rendering. madVR 0.10 uses 3 thread rendering. That's where all the problems freezes etc are coming from. Once I've done this properly (instead of the quick hack that 0.10 was) madVR should be back at 0.9's stability level.

I wouldn't mind him turning mVR donation-ware(a la neuron2), so he'd be more motivated to invest time in this very promising VR.
It's not a lack of motivation, it's simply a lack of time and getting money for it wouldn't have changed a thing. I might however introduce some fancy optional features which may have to be bought at some time. Don't know yet, though...

personally I'd like to see more scaling options such as blackman and eedi/nedi. I hate aliasing
I had tried blackman but it didn't convince me at all. I found blackman with 3 taps to be in no way better than bicubic60. And I liked spline36 more than blackman with 4 taps. Because of that madVR does not support blackman. EEDI/NEDI? I don't even know how it works. I don't expect it would run well on a GPU pixel shader. If you hate aliasing I'd suggest to use Lanczos4 (sharp, but has ringing) or SoftCubic50 (soft, but no ringing).

This may or may not have been answered, but are MadVR's default settings, the recommended settings for a very neutral up and downscaling, or are they basically just a conservative selection that should work fine for most videos?
Read the 3rd post in this thread.

[madshi]

madVR v0.11 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: luma resampling settings weren't saved/loaded correctly
* fixed: on some PCs video startup took several seconds
* updated cr3dlut to v2.2
As you can see, it's a minor update, only. I wanted to get the most important stuff out there first. A bigger update with stability fixes etc is planned for the near future.

[torpedo]

I have tested v0.11 with mpc-hc 1.3.1290 and potplayer. As i play some rmvb files it works fine with respect to resizing feature, but when i click the stop button of the player the video picture becomes freezing and the app crashed. This problem only occurs with some special encoded files, for example, the rmvb or mpeg1 files etc. Other encoded files of mpeg2, h264 etc. are not found this problem.

My specs：E8400 + ATI 3850 + catalyst 9.9 + win7 x64 7600.

Thank you very much for your great works!

[Kazuya]

Thanks Madshi, hope the next version upgrade synchro because I watched at least 10 movies and every time there was droped frames... :(
Not a lot, but maybe 5/hour approximatively. And sometimes, MadVR missed or lose the vsync.

[leeperry]

madVR update, very nice! :thanks:
Thanks Madshi, hope the next version upgrade synchro because I watched at least 10 movies and every time there was droped frames... :(
Not a lot, but maybe 5/hour approximatively. And sometimes, MadVR missed or lose the vsync.
in 50.000Hz w/ Reclock in KMP, I guess you'd need to mention that.

I haven't watched any +90 mins movies lately, but so far 30/45 mins TV eps were totally stutter-free for me in 23.976@48Hz...I'll try some long features anytime soon.

but madshi said that he hadn't worked on smooth playback yet, and it's already smoother/sharper than HR...so we should get there at some point :)

this random dropped frame(on XP SP3) problem and the fact that sometimes you have to reseek to catch the VSYNC properly(when using Reclock) would be really great to see solved :o

Beliyaal has proven w/ his EVR CP that it was entirely possible to never miss the VSYNC fliptime on XP(which makes Reclock happy), maybe he wouldn't mind sharing some of his code..
I have tested v0.11 with mpc-hc 1.3.1290 and potplayer. As i play some rmvb files it works fine with respect to resizing feature, but when i click the stop button of the player the video picture becomes freezing and the app crashed.
madVR in PotPlayer? new update then :confused:

yes, same problem in KMP, madVR doesn't close nicely: http://www.kmplayer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14975

[yesgrey]

Hi madshi, it's good to see you back.
Thanks for fixing the luma settings, it was the only thing that I was really missing.
Currently, I only use madVR v0.10, and it works fine. Of course it has some minor glitches, but not enough to not use it.
Now, I'm also with more free time, so I will try to get cr3dlut v2.3 out really soon (custom gamma curves).

[Thunderbolt8]

thanks for the update. Ive tested madVR on a screen with native 1080p resolution for the first time, but unfortunaltey there are quite some tearing issues in the lower part of the picture. happens with both 0.10 and 0.11. before that Ive displayed 1080p contend on a 720p screen, but had no tearing problems then.

[madshi]

when i click the stop button of the player the video picture becomes freezing and the app crashed.
Stability with v0.10 and v0.11 is not great. That's the main thing I'll work on next.

but madshi said that he hadn't worked on smooth playback yet, and it's already smoother/sharper than HR...so we should get there at some point :)
I did work on smooth playback. That's the main feature of v0.10. However, v0.10 is only the first step. I expect to achieve perfection in fullscreen exclusive mode. In windowed mode there might be some improvements in smoothness reliability, but not much, I'd guess...

Now, I'm also with more free time, so I will try to get cr3dlut v2.3 out really soon (custom gamma curves).
Great! How about gamut correction at multiple luminance levels? :D

Ive tested madVR on a screen with native 1080p resolution for the first time, but unfortunaltey there are quite some tearing issues in the lower part of the picture.
Can you change refresh rate to 48Hz instead of 24Hz? Maybe that helps. Final fix will be fullscreen exclusive mode (not implemented yet).

[Thunderbolt8]

Can you change refresh rate to 48Hz instead of 24Hz? Maybe that helps. Final fix will be fullscreen exclusive mode (not implemented yet).not really sure, its not my own screen. atm its at 23.999Hz.

[yesgrey]

Great! How about gamut correction at multiple luminance levels? :D
That should take a little more time... After the custom gamma I will look into the clipping rules, one of the topics we covered in PM. The gamut correction maybe only after that...

[pirlouy]

madVR, like EVR (MPC custom, Goth Sync version, or Windows native) or VMR7 or VMR9 have the same problem: when watching videos with a screen in 24Hz, you can see that these renderers cause an audio time-lag. Not very important, but you can perceive it when you use "Overlay mixer" as renderer (with Overlay Mixer, no lag at all, voices are synchronized with mouth :-).

Ok, it's surely a minor thing, but maybe who knows, it will interest madshi...

ps: in my case, I noticed it with Win7 (without Aero)

[Mark_A_W]

You can fix any audio/video delay issues using ffdshow video decoder or processor.


I have a 1500ms video delay to compensate for my Digital Room Correction.

[pirlouy]

I could, but delay is not the same between videos... :/

[Mark_A_W]

Hi madshi, it's good to see you back.
Thanks for fixing the luma settings, it was the only thing that I was really missing.
Currently, I only use madVR v0.10, and it works fine. Of course it has some minor glitches, but not enough to not use it.
Now, I'm also with more free time, so I will try to get cr3dlut v2.3 out really soon (custom gamma curves).


Well that begs the question Yesgrey...

How do we generate the custom gamma curves for the 3DLut??



And also, while I can play bluray sourced mkv files + room correction with my ATi 2600XT, activating the 3DLut makes it stutter and jump - it's choking.


So, what graphics card is recommended? 4770? Wait for a mid level 5xxx series? Powerstrip support is mandatory for me.

[madshi]

That should take a little more time... After the custom gamma I will look into the clipping rules, one of the topics we covered in PM. The gamut correction maybe only after that...
Sounds good.

madVR, like EVR (MPC custom, Goth Sync version, or Windows native) or VMR7 or VMR9 have the same problem: when watching videos with a screen in 24Hz, you can see that these renderers cause an audio time-lag. Not very important, but you can perceive it when you use "Overlay mixer" as renderer (with Overlay Mixer, no lag at all, voices are synchronized with mouth :-).
Are you sure that it's Overlay Mixer that is correct and all the other renderers that are incorrect? Maybe it's the other way round? You know, every display playback chain has its own delay values. Most displays add some delay, some receivers, too. So it's really difficult to find out who is responsible for a given audio sync mismatch.

And also, while I can play bluray sourced mkv files + room correction with my ATi 2600XT, activating the 3DLut makes it stutter and jump - it's choking.

So, what graphics card is recommended? 4770? Wait for a mid level 5xxx series? Powerstrip support is mandatory for me.
As I said before, madVR might improve its performance over time a bit. It's quite possible that you can use 3dlut with your 2600XT with a future madVR version. At least in fullscreen exclusive mode it's actually probable...

If you want to buy a new graphics card, anyway, a 47x0 should have *plenty* of power. If I were you, I'd wait for a graphics card which can bitstream DTS-HD and TrueHD, though. That would be ATI 5xxx. Or (probably) one of the new NVidias coming out soon, which however will probably not have PowerStrip support.

[THX-UltraII]

If I were you, I'd wait for a graphics card which can bitstream DTS-HD and TrueHD, though. That would be ATI 5xxx

There s a good chance that the 4xxx-series will support bitstreaming too. The MPC-HC/FFdshow team is working on it as I speak.

[madshi]

There s a good chance that the 4xxx-series will support bitstreaming too. The MPC-HC/FFdshow team is working on it as I speak.
I thought the 4xxx series was only HDMI 1.1 or HDMI 1.2? Are you sure that the 4xxx hardware can actually stream TrueHD and DTS-HD? LPCM yes, but TrueHD? Not even all HDMI 1.3 hardware can do it, AFAIK.