madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[mark0077]

Great thank you so much for your guides and posts. So having read your recent posts, and used a grayscale gradient as my desktop, where input lag and full resolution chroma are important, it looks best as follows (I think as you have concluded around the color format / depth).

# LG C9 Itself
HDMI Input Label: PC
HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Colour: On
Picture Mode: Game (User) with the following changes to the defaults
Black Level: Low
Sharpness: 0
Colour: 50
White Balance: Warm 2 (Not sure why it defaults to Medium here)

# Nvidia Control Panel
Output colour format: YCbCr444
Output colour depth: 8bpc (its crazy that higher actually does look worse, but its true)
Output dynamic range: Limited

# madVR
Display Output Levels: PC Levels (0-255)
Native Bitdepth: Auto
Calibration: disable calibration controls for this display
Reduce banding strength: low
Reduce banding strength during fade in/out: high
Use Direct3D 11 for presentation: On
Present a frame for every VSync: On
Dithering: Error Diffusion - option 2 (colored noise and change dither for every frame enabled)
trade quality: All off

# Refresh Rates
I see you have mentioned that you use 60hz and smooth motion. What motion test are you able to best spot the judder? I would like to reproduce, or is just your typical 24p judder?

I was setting up madVR to switch modes to 2160p23 / 2160p59 and worked quite well. I actually noticed by default 2160p24 shows really noticeably bad banding with the gradient-perceptual tests (and I checked in Nvidia CP and it seems 24p mode doesn't have the option for YCbCr444, switching to 2160p23 and and its there and the banding is gone).

I'm not sure if something like CRU will help me create a 2160p24 mode, that supports YCbCr444.

Similarly I have added a custom mode in madVR for 47.95hz and it works well, but again its stuck in RGB mode only.

[WuNgUn]

Great thank you so much for your guides and posts. So having read your recent posts, and used a grayscale gradient as my desktop, where input lag and full resolution chroma are important, it looks best as follows (I think as you have concluded around the color format / depth).

# LG C9 Itself
HDMI Input Label: PC
HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Colour: On
Picture Mode: Game (User) with the following changes to the defaults
Black Level: Low
Sharpness: 0
Colour: 50
White Balance: Warm 2 (Not sure why it defaults to Medium here)

# Nvidia Control Panel
Output colour format: YCbCr444
Output colour depth: 8bpc (its crazy that higher actually does look worse, but its true)
Output dynamic range: Limited

# madVR
Display Output Levels: PC Levels (0-255)
Native Bitdepth: Auto
Calibration: disable calibration controls for this display
Reduce banding strength: low
Reduce banding strength during fade in/out: high
Use Direct3D 11 for presentation: On
Present a frame for every VSync: On
Dithering: Error Diffusion - option 2 (colored noise and change dither for every frame enabled)
trade quality: All off

# Refresh Rates
I see you have mentioned that you use 60hz and smooth motion. What motion test are you able to best spot the judder? I would like to reproduce.

I was setting up madVR to switch modes to 2160p23 / 2160p59 and worked quite well. I actually noticed by default 2160p24 shows really noticeably bad banding with the gradient-perceptual tests (and I checked in Nvidia CP and it seems 24p mode doesn't have the option for YCbCr444, switching to 2160p23 and and its there and the banding is gone).

I'm not sure if something like CRU will help me create a 2160p24 mode, that supports YCbCr444.Selecting 23Hz in your display modes for 23.976Hz media is the proper setting to use...

[WuNgUn]

So I have a bunch of 10 bit, HDR 4K media, and I'm unsure of what colour settings to run...
YCbCr 422 gives me 10 bit option, but dynamic range is "limited"...? How can this be? Is it a HDMI bandwidth issue?
If I run 23.97Hz refresh (which should free up bandwidth), it doesn't offer a "full" option...
So, is RGB 8 bit colour better, as it give full dynamic range, even though my 10 bit media falls back to 8 bit?

[huhn]

YCbCr with HDMI is always limited and you can ignore this part and the TV knows this so it can't mismatch them.
but that not really important because you should use RGB if it is available and if your device properly supports it full range RGB because that's just better on a PC.

bit deep on media can be pretty much ignored it doesn't matter if your device supports 10 bit properly with no back draws you would get very similar benefits using an 8 bit file.

but the only difference between 8 bit RGB output and 10 bit RGB output is the noise level. can you see the noise from dithering at your viewing position?

[WuNgUn]

can you see the noise from dithering at your viewing position?

Are you saying there will be visible artifacts from 10 bit media running at 8 bit output?

[WuNgUn]

If I'm playing 4k video and refresh switch is on, it follows that of 1080ps refresh rates and resolution, effectively downscaling the video. I want madvr to follow the refresh rate of the video's resolution and stop the downscaling

Tried profile switching and it's not working. It's still following that of 1080ps


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSimply list your refresh rates with 2160p as the resolution for all of them.
2160p23, 2160p25, 2160p50,etc...
Your refresh rates will match your media and you'll stay at 2160p

[huhn]

Are you saying there will be visible artifacts from 10 bit media running at 8 bit output?

it's noise the same as with 8 bit content and the "same" that will be produced by the Tv panel because most are 8bit+frc anyway.

this is the noise i'm talking about:
https://abload.de/img/gradient-16bit.png_sn3wjco.png

[WuNgUn]

it's noise the same as with 8 bit content and the "same" that will be produced by the Tv panel because most are 8bit+frc anyway.



this is the noise i'm talking about:

https://abload.de/img/gradient-16bit.png_sn3wjco.pngI'm afraid I don't know what I'm looking at/looking for in that image... Lol

[huhn]

well the noise is there but human eyes can't see it.

[WuNgUn]

well the noise is there but human eyes can't see it.Lol
I'll ask my dog if he can see any noise.
;)

[ryrynz]

I'm afraid I don't know what I'm looking at/looking for in that imagePlease just reply without quoting entire posts, you can edit them down or just not quote at all if posting directly after the person you're replying to.

[WuNgUn]

Yeah, I edited down the longer quotes...
User preferences usually don't notify them if they're not quoted...
And two of my quotes/posts weren't directly after the OP, so....

[QBhd]

Well I guess I could toss my findings into the ring regarding LG OLED color banding in PC Mode (I have a C8). I tested using Game of Thrones Season 8 Episode 3 4k HDR "The Long Night". It is an awesome test for color banding. And no matter what I threw at the TV's PC Mode in terms of GPU output YCrCb/RGB/8bpc/10bpc/12bpc... it was all a mess. Too hard to enjoy. So I have come to the painful conclusion that I just need to bite the bullet and use the plain old HDMI label. I settled on using RGB Full 10-Bit output from my 5700 XT.

I also set chroma upscaling to Bicubic 60 and then cranked up the HDR settings instead of wasting the horsepower on chroma. I can see a slight difference in quality, but the horrible banding is much more of a noticeable PQ problem than sub-sampled chroma is.

QB

[nevcairiel]

Yeah, I edited down the longer quotes...
User preferences usually don't notify them if they're not quoted...
And two of my quotes/posts weren't directly after the OP, so....

There is no notification on quotes or mentions on this forum anyway, so thats not a reason to do it. :)

[WuNgUn]

There is no notification on quotes or mentions on this forum anyway, so thats not a reason to do it. :)There is if you use Tapatalk on your phone!

[Asmodian]

I think that is a pretty small percentage of the user base though, and the forum itself does not do any notifications based on quotes.

Dithering: Error Diffusion - option 2 (colored noise and change dither for every frame enabled)


I prefer ordered dithering on my C7 and C9. I also much prefer colored noise and change dither for every frame disabled.

I see you have mentioned that you use 60hz and smooth motion. What motion test are you able to best spot the judder? I would like to reproduce, or is just your typical 24p judder?

I used panning scenes in 23.976 fps anime to decide there were some motion issues that went away when using 60 Hz + smooth motion. I do not have any 24 fps content. I am much less sure of this, banding and chroma resolution are easy to test but I am less sure of the results with motion tests. :o

Similarly I have added a custom mode in madVR for 47.95hz and it works well, but again its stuck in RGB mode only.

Another reason I just use 60 Hz + smooth motion. The trouble around mode with frame rate changes never really goes away with regular installs of new drivers, new Windows versions, etc. :p

[Siso]

I'm thinkin' about buying a new pc monitor 34 inch 3440x1440p, and I was wondering which nvidia card will be sufficient for using NGU Sharp High for image doubling. I watch only 1080p movies. The current card I have is GTX 1050 Ti.

[huhn]

a 1050 ti can nearly for sure do NGU low so you have to be a bit more precise.

[WuNgUn]

Anyone know of a way to pass thru web video thru MadVR? Obviously some 3rd party software player...?

[Crimson Wolf]

https://streamlink.github.io/

https://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/index.html works with latest MPC-HC using advanced section settings for YDLMaxHeight if you put youtube-dl.exe in the $PATH.

Above two works for most streamed video sites.

[WuNgUn]

I was thinking more of a imbedded video in HTML...not a video playing service per-se.
I'll check it out...

[mambans]

Hey, Since I recently reformatted my PC my potplayer + madvr have started to stutter (a lot of "presentation glitches") in FSE mode. But sometimes when I disable FSE and smooth motion there are no more stutters and very rarely even FSE works without any stutters. Anyone have any idéas why FSE could stutter?

OSD:
FSE osd (https://i.imgur.com/3mvlvus.png)
Windowed osd (https://i.imgur.com/2vEfRET.png) (glitches & dropped frames are from the FSE mode)

Some settings:
Window mode (https://i.imgur.com/r9dwv2I.png)
Exclusive mode (https://i.imgur.com/oOSSyTc.png)
General (https://i.imgur.com/8KKOPng.png)
Smooth motion (https://i.imgur.com/g2DTYSw.png)
Dithering (https://i.imgur.com/rG3GKy9.png)

[WuNgUn]

https://streamlink.github.io/



https://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/index.html works with latest MPC-HC using advanced section settings for YDLMaxHeight if you put youtube-dl.exe in the $PATH.



Above two works for most streamed video sites.Looks like streamlink wants a plugin specifically for the website... Which there isn't one. (just a generic HTML page)

[Asmodian]

Anyone have any idéas why FSE could stutter?

Windows 10 seems to have broken FSE in many situations. Even when it works fine it is only being emulated. I recommend against using it now, I think it was 1809 or 1903 that really made FSE cause more trouble then it prevented. :(

[Siso]

a 1050 ti can nearly for sure do NGU low so you have to be a bit more precise.

What do you mean by more precise? With my current monitor 2560x1080p I can do NGU High and downscale with SSIM 1D 100% AR LL with rendering times around 22 ms, with no dropped frames or delayed frames. So I was wondering if I need a new card. The difference between 2560x1080p and 3440x1440p is big.

[ryrynz]

Just spend as much as you can afford, a 1070 or 1080 are good value for this.

[Siso]

Just spend as much as you can afford, a 1070 or 1080 are good value for this.

I may buy 1070. I think it will do a good work.

[el Filou]

What's the point of doubling 1080 content on a 1080 screen? :confused: Wouldn't sharpen/enhance detail do the job for much lower GPU load? Or are you speaking of SD material?
I don't double 1080 content on my 1440 desktop screen even though I'm sitting so close to it, Jinc is just fine. Doubling is worth it for "800p" 2.39:1 content though.

[huhn]

What do you mean by more precise? With my current monitor 2560x1080p I can do NGU High and downscale with SSIM 1D 100% AR LL with rendering times around 22 ms, with no dropped frames or delayed frames. So I was wondering if I need a new card. The difference between 2560x1080p and 3440x1440p is big.

then the 1050 should be able to do the same to upscale to a resolution of 3440x1440p that pretty much the same work load because in both cases you are scale up to 3840x2180 and downscale this to the target resolution as long as you are not using error diffusion or other filter the work is very similar.

so are you sure you are already using NGU high?

[Klaus1189]

Windows 10 seems to have broken FSE in many situations. Even when it works fine it is only being emulated. I recommend against using it now, I think it was 1809 or 1903 that really made FSE cause more trouble then it prevented. :(

I tested FSE with my RX480 on 1903 which was terrible after a new clean install of 1903 after using 1809. But I must admit I only tested it several month ago with the drivers available back then.

I tested it some days ago again on 1909 with my newer RX 5700 XT and latest drivers and it works just as fine as windowed.

[QBhd]

FSE does not work as well as Windowed on a 5700 XT. I'm betting if you didn't noticed the difference you are not pushing the 5700 XT very hard. When I tried it the other day I was surprised it worked, but then I looked at the OSD and could clearly see the difference (even though both worked).

QB

[huhn]

rendertimes on a RX 5700 are pretty meaningless the clocks are changed very aggressively i even get lower rendertimes in FSE then windowed.

there is even still a way to get the old FSE but not this topic again.

[Klaus1189]

I'm betting if you didn't noticed the difference you are not pushing the 5700 XT very hard.

You're right, I don't need highest settings, but these are at least sufficient for me ;) So when higher settings are being used which use lots of GPU calculation then the difference are higher rendering times when using exclusive mode on newer Win10 because it's not a "real" exclusive one anymore?

[mambans]

Thanks for the help. I'll use windowed mode and hope for some update for win 10. :)

(Weird it worked the day before but might be an update or something I installed on the new install)

[Siso]

then the 1050 should be able to do the same to upscale to a resolution of 3440x1440p that pretty much the same work load because in both cases you are scale up to 3840x2180 and downscale this to the target resolution as long as you are not using error diffusion or other filter the work is very similar.

so are you sure you are already using NGU high?

At least it is what the OSD says. I use ordered dithering.

[Siso]

What's the point of doubling 1080 content on a 1080 screen? :confused: Wouldn't sharpen/enhance detail do the job for much lower GPU load? Or are you speaking of SD material?
I don't double 1080 content on my 1440 desktop screen even though I'm sitting so close to it, Jinc is just fine. Doubling is worth it for "800p" 2.39:1 content though.

My monitor has 2.37:1 AR and I mostly watch movies in that AR, 1920x1080p movies don't need any upscaling or doubling, the other movies 816p, 800p they do need doubling.

[mclingo]

oddly i find the opposite with FSE, when deployed i have no issues, without it I get small glitches here and there and black screens now and again, havent tried it off again since I moved to RX 5700, i'm still on 1809

[ryrynz]

What's the point of doubling 1080 content on a 1080 screen? :confused: Wouldn't sharpen/enhance detail do the job for much lower GPU load?
I did this on my plasma and it was beautiful. High quality upscaling and downscaling NGU sharp and SSIM 2D produce a superior image to say just sharpening alone. I used it for all cinema content with no extra sharpening required. You need a good GPU to pull this off.

[nsnhd]

I did this on my plasma and it was beautiful. High quality upscaling and downscaling NGU sharp and SSIM 2D produce a superior image to say just sharpening alone. I used it for all cinema content with no extra sharpening required. You need a good GPU to pull this off.

Ya, SSIM 2D much better than SSIM 1D. Maybe instead of using SSIM 1D, not using doubling is better.

[ryrynz]

Just depends on what sharpening you want at the end of the day. Fire up your favorite content and just watch for comparison. You should be able to determine a preference.

[Asmodian]

Ya, SSIM 2D much better than SSIM 1D. Maybe instead of using SSIM 1D, not using doubling is better.

I think the benefit is from doing the sharpening at a the higher resolution. SSIM 2D is sharper than SSIM 1D but using bicubic downscaling is probably better than running the sharpening at the native resolution, assuming you do like the sharpening done at higher resolutions. It can look more natural after downscaling but it also ends up being not as strong.

If you don't want to sharpen at the doubled resolution it is pointless to double and then do a 50% downscale anyway. :p

[Siso]

Ya, SSIM 2D much better than SSIM 1D. Maybe instead of using SSIM 1D, not using doubling is better.

SSIM 2D is more demanding than SSIM 1D...Can't use it with my 1050 Ti.

[huhn]

you can just go into the nvidia control panel and test what you could do at 1440p by activating DSR x1.5 and setting the windows desktop to ~1440p. not 100 % accurate but close enough if you are careful.

this is obviously bad for image quality but that's not the point here.

[mambans]

I managed to get FSE working without any dropped frames of glitches by disabling v-sync in Madvr and enabling g-sync and v-sync in Nvidia control panel.

[WuNgUn]

Upscaling 1080p....
Using NGU Standard.
Luma doubling is "medium"
Activate doubling is "always"

Someone help me... Luma is the actual grey scale image...? The resolution?
Because my 1080p video is still outputting at 1080p....
Shoukd it not be 2160p with doubling?

[WuNgUn]

Or maybe it isn't...?
Scale 0,0,1920,1080 - 0,0,3840,2160

[mambans]

Small question, how do save your Madvr settings? Is it enough saving the registry at "Computer\HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\madshi"?

[ryrynz]

AFAIA absolutely everything that's saved in the settings.bin (if madVR has write permission to it's own directory) is also saved under that location in the registry. I like to have the bin file as well and keep that backed up.
You can export the madVR registry location you specified or you can allow write access to madVR's installed folder and have madVR create the settings.bin which you can then copy.

[mambans]

@ryrynz
Ah oke, I'll also keep both settings.bin and the registry backup.
Thanks for the help.

[Morgin187]

Hope someone can help with display modes. I currently have madvr display modes set as 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p29, 2160p30, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60. but still dont get smooth playback changed all the motion controls on tv but cant it perfect. Also tried the smooth motion options in madvr. My question is, is all content tv shows movies in 23/24hz? anything i watch is shown as 24p on my tv. The resolution changes but the frames per second always stays at 24p. Samsung qled Q9fn with gtx1080 i7 7700k. rendering settings under 35ms