madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[AngelGraves13]

i believe in you but i like the blue log of HD sound on my denon xD

You should tick the passthrough options in LAV Audio decoder.

[DragonQ]

Normal? Movies are filmed in 24.
Indeed, but BDs are mastered at 23.976 fps normally. Kinda bizarre considering, AFAIK, HDTVs that support 23.976p support 24p anyway and a few BDs are indeed 24p.

Also shows that playing the film back 0.002 Hz faster than default isn't a problem in and of itself - the problem is just dropped/repeated frames due to the display refresh rate not matching.

[DragonQ]

You should tick the passthrough options in LAV Audio decoder.
That's not the point, he wanted to use it with Reclock but that's not possible.

[leeperry]

Hi madshi, I was wondering if you could please be of any assistance regarding my problems with a GTX660 on XPSP3
Hi again, OK nevermind about my e-drama as it would appear that even HR gives tearing and only overlay manages to provide smoothish playback(interframe jitter isn't stable and scaling is horrid). I wonder how Q3 manages to work so well with such broken drivers.

And lo and behold as I just bought a W8 licence, let's see how the 21st century feels like http://forum-images.hardware.fr/images/perso/the%20geddons.gif

[moffy]

I am looking at using the SubRenderIntf.h interface. I ran across it while browsing the LAVVideo source code, and have a project using subtitlles that I believe could benefit from it. You have extensive comments in the file, but being somewhat inexperienced with Directshow are there any more examples or documentation available? From reading, to use the interface you have to have a ISubRenderConsumer. How does one filter interrogate all the other filters of the graph looking for this interface? Thanks.

[nevcairiel]

Just to make sure, the interface used in LAVVideo is slightly outdated, you should grab the latest one from madVR itself, otherwise it might not be compatible (LAV only uses it internally with itself, not with the outside)

[moffy]

Thanks nevcairiel. I have also looked at the code from xy_subfilter_consumer. I managed to insert some code into LAVVideo e.g.

HRESULT CLAVVideo::Pause()
{
CComPtr<IEnumFilters> pEF;
HRESULT hr;
ULONG merit;

if((m_pGraph) && !(m_pSubConsumer))
{
if(SUCCEEDED(m_pGraph->EnumFilters(&pEF)))
{
for(CComPtr<IBaseFilter> pBF; pEF->Next(1, &pBF, 0) == S_OK; pBF = NULL)
{
CComQIPtr<ISubRenderConsumer> pNSC(pBF);

if((pBF != (IBaseFilter *) this) && pNSC)
{
merit = 0;
hr = pNSC->GetMerit(&merit);
if(SUCCEEDED(hr) && (merit > m_consumermerit))
{
m_consumermerit = merit;
if(m_pSubConsumer != NULL)
m_pSubConsumer->Release();
m_pSubConsumer = pNSC;
m_pSubConsumer->AddRef();
}
}
}
}
}
return __super::Pause();
}


after much trial and error. When I had the xy_subfilter_consumer.dll loaded, it was able to discover the interface. If there are any mistakes in the above code please let me know.

[moffy]

Sorry for the lack of code formatting. Can't see how to add it.

[LigH]

Put it in a CODE (or PHP) block. See BB code (http://forum.doom9.org/misc.php?do=bbcode#code) short documentation.

[ryrynz]

Madshi, I wanted to run this by you to see whether removing the CPU queue options lower than 8 might be an idea. When I have my CPU queue less than 8 I find switching from windowed mode to exclusive causes frames to jump back and forth.

Having the CPU queue set to 8 seems to be the magic (and I know it's default) number. The video never comes right after this occurs, so perhaps lower values should be removed or maybe things can be improved in the transition from windowed to exclusive. I've included a log where I set the CPU queue to 6. Changing the GPU queue size had no effect at all. HD 3000, W8, 15.28.18.64.3223.

http://www.mediafire.com/?6ks7xddl7lbnnqw

[Asmodian]

Why do you need the option removed to not use it? Are you sure that there is no situation on any system where a CPU queue below 8 is useful?

[moffy]

Put it in a CODE (or PHP) block. See BB code (http://forum.doom9.org/misc.php?do=bbcode#code) short documentation.


Thanks for the tip. I added the code markers.

[turbojet]

Lower queues are needed on slow hardware to get a picture. I use 6/4, half of the defaults, for faster seeks and don't see any problems. I had asked madshi awhile ago if he'd consider allowing smaller queues to allow madvr to work with slower hardware, he said it wouldn't work.

[ryrynz]

Are you sure that there is no situation on any system where a CPU queue below 8 is useful?

Lower queues are needed on slow hardware to get a picture. I use 6/4, half of the defaults, for faster seeks and don't see any problems.

This is the exact reason why the question was posted here.
I guess this could fall into the auto configuration feature in the future. Determining the best queues for your hardware. I don't think this particular problem is shown as dropped frames. So knowing what's going on here might be of some value.

[turbojet]

Not sure auto queue settings could ever work consistently and it's been tried. A few months ago someone would get dropped frames in some scenes with the highest queue setting on old/slow hardware hence the larger buffers were added. On my older hardware I couldn't get a picture at default queues and needed to lower them and SD played fine, no longer have that laptop. Another example is madshi has/had an nvidia 8500/8600(?) that needed to increase queues to prevent dropped frames, the 9500GT I have starts dropping frames if I go above 16 or so with fhd, going with low queues doesn't cause dropped frames.

It hasn't been investigated much but there's nothing obvious responsible for these varying results.

[isamu]

Hello gentlemen :)

I'm fairly new to using MadVR, and I am just wondering what the best settings are to achieve the sharpest picture while keeping aliasing to a minimum? I use MPC-HC coupled with ffdshow. If I enable "sharpen" on ffdshow I get quite a bit of aliasing but it does enhance the sharpness. What settings can I use in madvr to get exceptional sharpness without going overboard with the aliasing? I have an Nvidia GTX 680 GPU.

[PetitDragon]

Head up and look "turbojet"'s signature, you will find a word "LumaSharpen".:D

[michkrol]

Hello gentlemen :)

I'm fairly new to using MadVR, and I am just wondering what the best settings are to achieve the sharpest picture while keeping aliasing to a minimum? I use MPC-HC coupled with ffdshow. If I enable "sharpen" on ffdshow I get quite a bit of aliasing but it does enhance the sharpness. What settings can I use in madvr to get exceptional sharpness without going overboard with the aliasing? I have an Nvidia GTX 680 GPU.

If you want to minimize aliasing introduced by upscaling, set the image upscaling algorithm to Jinc3, it does use a bit of power, but is probably best in madVR.

If you want to use post-processing to enhance the image, follow PetitDragon's advice and use shaders in MPC-HC.

As a side note, LAV Filters (also included in MPC-HC nightly builds) are the codecs of choice recently and work with madVR nicely.

[dansrfe]

http://i.imgur.com/HLv1qmj.png

[MokrySedeS]

For post-processing HD try FineSharp.

[isamu]

Head up and look "turbojet"'s signature, you will find a word "LumaSharpen".:D

Thanks a bunch for the replies everyone. I applied the settings in MADVR from "turbojet"'s signature, and the picture looks very very good. However, PetitDragon, what about this "LumaSharpen" in his sig? Where is it and how do I apply in MadVR?

michkrol....I *DO* in fact want to use post-processing to enhance the image in MPC-HC but you mention I should use shaders....how do I use shaders in MPC? I don't see anything that says "apply shaders" in the MPC-HC options? Or do you mean use "external filters" such as ffdhow, etc?

Oh by the way I should mention I watch a LOT of Anime! In fact 95% of the content I will be watching on MPC will be anime.

[PetitDragon]

.... PetitDragon, what about this "LumaSharpen" in his sig? Where is it and how do I apply in MadVR? ....

Please refer to the link as following:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1547989#post1547989

The first post in that thread "JanWillem32" will teach you how to use pixel shaders.

Have fun.:)

[turbojet]

There's a newer version of Lumasharpen at http://dropcanvas.com/l46x9 There's a guide available there too. The easiest way to 'install' it is save the txt, change the extension to psh and move it to the mpc\shaders directory. Feel free to tweak it to your liking, the only ones I changed were strength=0.9 and pattern=8. I prefer is as a pre-resize shader but try post-resize as well, you could even use it as both for a lot of sharpening.

Finesharp http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/FineSharp you'd load in the avisynth tab of ffdshow.

LSFMod http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/LSFmod is another avisynth filter.

Unsharp <30 strength in ffdshow's sharpen tab is worth looking at as well. I've used them all regularly but find LumaSharpen has the highest sharpen to artifact ratio to my eyes. You'll have to decide which one you prefer.

[aduwind]

Please refer to the link as following:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1547989#post1547989

The first post in that thread "JanWillem32" will teach you how to use pixel shaders.

Have fun.:)

Boys, don't forget this jewel: DARBEE

:p:p

[PetitDragon]

Yep, Darbee is a good starter kit for amateur. HTPC enthusiasts use CPU+GPU as a powerful video processor to achieve their ideal colorfulness, sharpness and stereo look (3D like) PQ.:cool:

[michkrol]

(...) When I have my CPU queue less than 8 I find switching from windowed mode to exclusive causes frames to jump back and forth. (...)

I've been playing with madVR's settings recently and encountered similar behavior only if I have "use separate device for presentation" enabled.
There are other known issues with Intel's newer drivers with this option enabled. Could you confirm that's the case with your setup?

[ryrynz]

I've been playing with madVR's settings recently and encountered similar behavior only if I have "use separate device for presentation" enabled.
There are other known issues with Intel's newer drivers with this option enabled. Could you confirm that's the case with your setup?

This is the exact same issue I posted about a page back. It's not a separate device option issue. It could be related to how madvr deals with the lower queues or could just be Intel's driver.

[mindbomb]

im occasionally hearing of problems of stuttering from people when madvr switches their display to 23.976hz.
Does anyone know what is causing this or what to suggest to those with this problem?

Oh, i guess one thing they can do is make the default refresh rate 23.976 hz.

[namaiki]

im occasionally hearing of problems of stuttering from people when madvr switches their display to 23.976hz.
Does anyone know what is causing this or what to suggest to those with this problem?

Oh, i guess one thing they can do is make the default refresh rate 23.976 hz.

Do they have exclusive mode enabled? Also, maybe just try use 60Hz with smooth motion enabled and don't switch to ~24Hz.

[cadmium]

Hi,

I tried doing a bunch of research, but how in the world do I use pixel shaders with MadVR in KMPlayer? It seems like there is almost no information about this...

I tried looking through the JanWillem32 thread but didn't get too much out of it.

Would I see a noticeable difference if I add pixel shaders into the mix? I have an i7 3820 + GTX 670 and am currently on Jinc 4 taps/Jinc 3 taps/Lanczos 4 taps.

Thanks in advance!

[kasper93]

im occasionally hearing of problems of stuttering from people when madvr switches their display to 23.976hz.

I'm not sure, but I think I have the same problem, not often, though. Stuttering is gone after switching to exclusive mode and go back to windowed...

[mastrboy]

Have a question about usage/scaling:
If I set the following settings in Madvr, switch to mathing display mode - when media player goes fullscreen, restore original mode - when media player leaves fullscreen, and the list of display modes to 720p60,1080p60 only.
Will madvr then play back 720p content at 720p resolution and 1080p content at 1080p resolution, while still upscaling everything below 720p to 720p?

[Plutotype]

Hi folks, dont know if this is correct thread, but:
a. How much does a 65x3 3D LUT takes approximately in Gb? How much takes 256x3 3D LUT in storage capacity?
b. Does 3D LUT processing using madVR take significant CPU % when imported into madVR? Does it utilise significantly more CPU or the GPU?

thanks
Pluto

[dansrfe]

a. How much does a 65x3 3D LUT takes approximately in Gb? How much takes 256x3 3D LUT in storage capacity?
b. Does 3D LUT processing take significant CPU % when imported into madVR? Does it utilise significantly more CPU or the GPU?


a. My 3DLUTs are all at 96MB. I'm not sure how measurement data is stored/compressed and/or padded in the 3DLUT therefore I cannot claim that the size is fixed.

b. GPU consumption

[nevcairiel]

a. How much does a 65x3 3D LUT takes approximately in Gb? How much takes 256x3 3D LUT in storage capacity?

The default 8-bit LUT (256x3) is 96MB.
A 6-bit LUT (64x3) would be only 1.5MB

And for good measure, a 10-bit LUT (1024x3) would be 6GB. :)

They are not compressed.

[e-t172]

…and to make things perfectly clear, the way you calculate this for an N-D LUT is:

((size)^N)*N*(output bit depth) = (size in bits)

A full (256x256x256) madVR 3DLUT has a 8-bit input bit depth and a 16-bit output bit depth, so the size is (256^3)*3*16 = 96 MB.

[leeperry]

how in the world do I use pixel shaders with MadVR in KMPlayer?
http://thumbnails101.imagebam.com/27692/7767bb276914011.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/7767bb276914011)

It's a lot easier in PotP, put them all in its /PxShader/ subdirectory, et voilà: http://thumbnails104.imagebam.com/25196/7c8097251955360.jpg (http://www.imagebam.com/image/7c8097251955360)

[phneutral]

Hi there,

At the moment I have an AMD Radeon HD 5500 videocard in my i7 pc, and no matter what settings/codec packs/combinations I use, I keep getting judder with panning scenes. Except when I use the smooth video project codec pack, but then playback really looks as smooth as a home video. Not really appealing.

Are there any other options to get less judder? I can't seem to set my Samsung Syncmaster LCD Monitor to 24hz either. Would that be a limit of my videocard/drivers? I haven't tried something like "Powerstrip" yet, to add resolutions with custom Hz.

And do you guys think there's any difference between Nvidia and AMD in general? How they/their drivers handle the Hz/fps issue? Then maybe I'd consider buying a reasonable priced Nvidia card.

Hope someone can give me some options to try.

Kind regards,
Dennis

[mindbomb]

the easiest thing to do is to enable smooth motion in the madvr settings.
if you are not satisfied, set a custom resolution with Custom Resolution Utility, http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU, with a 72hz refresh rate and use reclock as your audio renderer.

[phneutral]

the easiest thing to do is to enable smooth motion in the madvr settings.
if you are not satisfied, set a custom resolution with Custom Resolution Utility, http://www.monitortests.com/forum/Thread-Custom-Resolution-Utility-CRU, with a 72hz refresh rate and use reclock as your audio renderer.

Thanks for your reply Mindbomb!

I tried smooth motion. Unfortunately, it gives more of a slight constant "vibration" in the video's.
Coincidently I stumbled upon the Custom resolution Utility, and tried to manually add 72 Hz, or 71.928, with the values: 1920, Front porch: 30, Sync width: 40, Back porch: 45 and 1080, Front porch: 3 lines, Synch width: 4 lines, Back porch: 5 lines.

Then when I switch to this new resolution, my desktop is moved to the left, and stretched weird. Text is readable, but a little bit unsharp... Am I doing something wrong with the Utility?

My screen shoud support up to 75, but don't know if it can handle 72 then?

[mindbomb]

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1670817

try those settings except use a 72hz refresh rate.

[phneutral]

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1670817

try those settings except use a 72hz refresh rate.

I tried that, but then desktop still doesn't seem to fit anymore on my screen. Also, everything seems a little unsharp. Adjusting it with my LCD Monitor doesn't really seem to work, I don't seem to have the options on my monitor to reduce the size of the viewarea. It seems to handle it automatically.

Also, with these settings, moving windows around, seems to go with judder now, haha. Any other idea's?

[burfadel]

I have my main screen at 75 Hz, seems the smooth motion doesn't work properly at this rate. It does work at 60 Hz though (and on a connected TV), but it would be nice if it would function at 75 Hz.

Another major point about smooth motion, shouldn't this be available as an option for different screens? That is, if you have a couple of different screens available, some people may want it turned on if playing on one screen, but turned off if playing on another. At the moment the setting is universal and requires toggling.

[mindbomb]

I tried that, but then desktop still doesn't seem to fit anymore on my screen. Also, everything seems a little unsharp.

i guess your monitor can't do refresh rate changes. go back to 60hz and use smooth motion.


Another major point about smooth motion, shouldn't this be available as an option for different screens? That is, if you have a couple of different screens available, some people may want it turned on if playing on one screen, but turned off if playing on another. At the moment the setting is universal and requires toggling.

i don't see why. if you select the "only if there is judder" smooth motion option, then it wouldn't turn on if the other screens are running a refresh rate with no judder.

[phneutral]

i guess your monitor can't do refresh rate changes. go back to 60hz and use smooth motion.


Gives a weird vibration to the video's..

[burfadel]

Well, even if smooth motion isn't added as screen independent, the fact is it doesn't like 75 Hz on my main monitor :(.

[GCRaistlin]

What should I write to "list all display modes madVR may switch to" field if I have a generic 17" LCD monitor that supports 60, 70, 72, 75 Hz frequencies?

[michkrol]

What should I write to "list all display modes madVR may switch to" field if I have a generic 17" LCD monitor that supports 60, 70, 72, 75 Hz frequencies?

Probably none. 72hz should be enough, since it's a multiple of 24fps in which most movies are shot. Might be better to set your screen to 72hz for desktop too, so you don't have to switch back and forth. It also depends on your results with SmoothMotion enabled. Keep in mind that you should use your LCD's native resolution and use madVR for scaling for best quality, even if you get lower refresh rate at native resolution.

I would suggest you try madVR in native resolution with highest possible refresh rate and SmoothMotion enabled or go for 72hz.

If you really need to list different modes it goes like that: 768p72, 768p75
if you have 1024x768@72hz and 1024x768@75hz available. You list the vertical resolution. It's usually safe to assume your PC screen only accepts progressive signal, hence the p.
Also madVR won't switch to a resolution/refresh rate unavailable to Windows.

[e-t172]

I have a generic 17" LCD monitor that supports 60, 70, 72, 75 Hz frequencies

You should make sure that the monitor is not lying to you, and is not dropping/repeating frames when you request these refresh rates. I have yet to see a "generic 17" LCD monitor" that actually supports anything other than 60Hz. If you play a movie at 72Hz and it doesn't look smooth, your monitor is probably lying to you.

[GCRaistlin]

michkrol
Thanks for the answer. I already have my monitor set to 72 Hz. But I see no difference in comparison to 60 Hz of the "preset mode". As long as I remember I have read once that all of these LCD frequencies aren't "fair", the frequency of a LCD monitor is always 60 Hz and all other frequencies are just emulated. But I may be wrong.
I believe native resolution for 17" LCD is 1280x1024. If I don't use 25-to-24 fps conversion by ReClock, should I type
1024p75
there? Actually, I'm going to use this conversion, but I'd like to understand this madVR feature.
What about a generic CRT TV? I plan to connect it finally to my videocard. Will the following values be valid here:
600p50,600p60

Or are they wrong? Or are there some other valid ones?

e-t172
You should make sure that the monitor is not lying to you, and is not dropping/repeating frames when you request these refresh rates. I have yet to see a "generic 17" LCD monitor" that actually supports anything other than 60Hz.

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean.

If you play a movie at 72Hz and it doesn't look smooth
That's the question. It looks smooth enough for me, but maybe it may be a bit more smooth? :) Let's consider my monitor is lying to me. Then? Should I set it to "fair" 60 Hz and leave the field empty? Or should I type:

1024p60

?

What about smooth motion - should I enable it anyway?