madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[mclingo]

MediaInfo isn't always correct. What's the madVR OSD say the frame rate is? I get symptoms like this when a video is really 29.97, despite what MediaInfo reports. Seems to happen mostly with converted TV shows.

thats what I thought initially but it plays fine at 23.976 using the EVR renderer.

Madvr clocks it as 23.976

[mclingo]

3D

My system is now fully stable for 3D, no more messing around with batch files, dropping into 1080p etc etc, no dropped frames, just perfect playback. I mentioned this before and i'm hoping MADSHI will get chance to look at it at some point. MADVR refresh rate switching for 3D is broken, at least for AMD cards so i've switched to using it in my player instead, MPC / KODI DS. Now all my 3D movies, start, skip and stop correctly and smoothly with no loss of HDMI and no machine crashes.

If you are a bg 3D fan and your're not a gamer I would certainly recommend and AMD card over Nvidia, the caveat being the AMD cards tend to have less processing ability so you are slightly limited to what MADVR goodies you can throw at it.

[steakhutzeee]

Here for asking what I think is a noob question [emoji14]

Using madvr on files on my PC I have no dropped frames.

But with dvd discs I've a lot of them, continuously increasing as the movie goes on. Why this? There is something wrong I'm doing?

[ryrynz]

Look at your OSD.. look at your loads

[steakhutzeee]

Look at your OSD.. look at your loadsSorry, what I've to look at exactly?

[ryrynz]

Post screenshot of your OSD. Check CPU and GPU loads make sure nothing is ~80+%

[stefanelli73]

3D

My system is now fully stable for 3D, no more messing around with batch files, dropping into 1080p etc etc, no dropped frames, just perfect playback. I mentioned this before and i'm hoping MADSHI will get chance to look at it at some point. MADVR refresh rate switching for 3D is broken, at least for AMD cards so i've switched to using it in my player instead, MPC / KODI DS. Now all my 3D movies, start, skip and stop correctly and smoothly with no loss of HDMI and no machine crashes.

If you are a bg 3D fan and your're not a gamer I would certainly recommend and AMD card over Nvidia, the caveat being the AMD cards tend to have less processing ability so you are slightly limited to what MADVR goodies you can throw at it.

Hello, could you kindly tell me what you did exactly to have a stable 3d without dropped frames? I have an AMD RX480

[mclingo]

Hello, could you kindly tell me what you did exactly to have a stable 3d without dropped frames? I have an AMD RX480

yeah sure.

Firsty if you press control J what do the first two lines say, it should say something like:

display 23,97598hz
composition rate 23,976

[el Filou]

Using madvr on files on my PC I have no dropped frames but with dvd discs I've a lot of them, continuously increasing as the movie goes on.I also have something weird happening with DVDs and madVR, while playing SD MPEG2 TS files always work just fine. I have posted screens of the OSD showing an issue but nobody noticed/had any answere unfortunately: https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1832113#post1832113

Try pausing/unpausing your DVD playback a few times, or seeking a few seconds back. When I do that it usually stops dropping frames. I have no explanation for this. :(

[steakhutzeee]

Post screenshot of your OSD. Check CPU and GPU loads make sure nothing is ~80+%Here is my osd, cpu is ok, don't know how to check gpu load.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180210/04dc28ce7147661bea0202c95a9cb643.jpg


Tried to pause/unpause like @el Filou suggested but nothing changed.

Don't know why but with dvd I can't select a specific point of the playback in the seekbar. I can skip to next/previous chapter tho. I use mpc be and with vlc I can instead. This is off topic I think but maybe you know why this happens.

Thanks! [emoji16]

[mclingo]

Here is my osd, cpu is ok, don't ....

Try again with MADVR playing at the correct rate.

I find its best to play movies in there default rate, your skips will likely be caused by MADVR changing up from 23,976 hz to 60 hz.

do you have 1080p23 or 2160p23 set as a display mode in MADVR? do you have refresh rate switching turned on in MADVR?

[el Filou]

Here is my osd, cpu is ok, don't know how to check gpu load. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180210/04dc28ce7147661bea0202c95a9cb643.jpgWhat's happening is your PAL DVD is being deinterlaced as video to 50 fps ('frame = 20 ms') and your rendering times are higher than the resulting frame time so you get dropped frames.
If this is indeed a video source then you need to lower your scaling settings.
If this is a film, enable IVTC or manually disable deinterlacing by pressing the shortcut (that's what I do), then it will play at 25 fps/40 ms per frame.

[steakhutzeee]

Try again with MADVR playing at the correct rate.

I find its best to play movies in there default rate, your skips will likely be caused by MADVR changing up from 23,976 hz to 60 hz.

do you have 1080p23 or 2160p23 set as a display mode in MADVR? do you have refresh rate switching turned on in MADVR?I never touched the screen rate options in madvr, screenshots in spoiler, don't know how to do the changes you suggest. And why you talk about 23.976 if movie is 25.000?

Can you help me?

I'm on a FullHD monitor setted on 60hz.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180210/b614d5e4a0707660ea49bd4597e29f8b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180210/a875b5324eb455b5099f43968250b682.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180210/fccd26ded1723e905a190365bf96b311.jpg

[steakhutzeee]

What's happening is your PAL DVD is being deinterlaced as video to 50 fps ('frame = 20 ms') and your rendering times are higher than the resulting frame time so you get dropped frames.
If this is indeed a video source then you need to lower your scaling settings.
If this is a film, enable IVTC or manually disable deinterlacing by pressing the shortcut (that's what I do), then it will play at 25 fps/40 ms per frame.What is IVTC? So I have to simply disable deinterlacing when running a DVD movie disc?

What's difference between video source and film?

I added screenshots in post just before this.

[el Filou]

What is IVTC?IVTC is InVerse TeleCine. It analyses frames to try and reconstruct the original cadence before the conversion to TV/DVD. It can, among other cases, for example reconstruct 24p film converted into 60i back into 24p (so called 3:2 cadence), or 25p converted into 50i back to 25p (so called 2:2 cadence). Your PAL DVD is the second case. However, IVTC uses some processing power, and madVR runs it on the CPU, so if you can avoid it then you gain a few ms.So I have to simply disable deinterlacing when running a DVD movie disc?If the only material you watch on DVD is movies and the DVDs are PAL, then yes. It's easy because when a cinema movie is put on a PAL DVD, it's simply accelerated 4% to 25 fps, then each frame is plit in two fields to give 50i. If you just disable deinterlacing, the fields (half-frames) are just combined back together into 25p.
Note that some TV series are also shot on film, and some parts of cinema movies on disc can be video, like some end credits, so you need to test with each film (or enable IVTC and accept the few ms of additional processing).What's difference between video source and film?Video is natively captured in 50i (or in 50p and then converted to 50i for TV/DVD/HD Blu-ray), so if you disable deinterlacing with true video, you'll end up with stuff like that: https://larryjordan.com/assets/nxltr69/interlace-01.jpg
Check madVR's keyboard shortcuts configuration, there are shortcuts for toggling deinterlacing between auto/off/on, and for forcing film/video. Test and see what each does to playback.

[stefanelli73]

yeah sure.

Firsty if you press control J what do the first two lines say, it should say something like:

display 23,97598hz
composition rate 23,976

Yes, both the display and the composition rate can be found, sometimes having a high rendering while having low settings in madvr

[steakhutzeee]

IVTC is InVerse TeleCine. It analyses frames to try and reconstruct the original cadence before the conversion to TV/DVD. It can, among other cases, for example reconstruct 24p film converted into 60i back into 24p (so called 3:2 cadence), or 25p converted into 50i back to 25p (so called 2:2 cadence). Your PAL DVD is the second case. However, IVTC uses some processing power, and madVR runs it on the CPU, so if you can avoid it then you gain a few ms.If the only material you watch on DVD is movies and the DVDs are PAL, then yes. It's easy because when a cinema movie is put on a PAL DVD, it's simply accelerated 4% to 25 fps, then each frame is plit in two fields to give 50i. If you just disable deinterlacing, the fields (half-frames) are just combined back together into 25p.
Note that some TV series are also shot on film, and some parts of cinema movies on disc can be video, like some end credits, so you need to test with each film (or enable IVTC and accept the few ms of additional processing).Video is natively captured in 50i (or in 50p and then converted to 50i for TV/DVD/HD Blu-ray), so if you disable deinterlacing with true video, you'll end up with stuff like that: https://larryjordan.com/assets/nxltr69/interlace-01.jpg
Check madVR's keyboard shortcuts configuration, there are shortcuts for toggling deinterlacing between auto/off/on, and for forcing film/video. Test and see what each does to playback.Thank you very much for the complete explanation!

So,

Disabling deinterlacing works, and no dropped frames with video mode.

With deinterlacing on 'if in doubt deactivate' (as i always have) , and forced to movie mode, no fps drop. (possible?)


So I simply setted madvr to force movie mode and now I have not to press anything, (not touched deinterlacing setting).

I can use these settings for movies I've on my PC so not on dvd discs?

I tried and switching between source type (on a movie on my PC) I see 1.movie with deinterlacing off 2. Movie 3.video

What's the difference between 1 and 2?

>>So I assume I can safely completely disable deinterlacing because I never see true video but only movies? Deactivating 'automatically activate deinterlacing when needed'? Or it's useless because I m forcing movie mode?


>>Forcing movie mode automatically enable IVTC? So I have to install anything and I can leave the deinterlacing option active on 'if in doubt, deactivate'?

-------------


Btw, I still continue to can't navigate through the movie selecting a point in the seek bar. Why this? (only on DVD discs).

What's the use of the settings in the first two screeshots i posted in spoiler previously? Those settings refer to this problem too?

Thanks again and again!

[Clown shoes]

Afternoon all. I have Madvr set up to render all my content via Kodi DSPlayer and everything is working perfectly except for a couple of movies out of over 1000 that are dropping frames like nobody's business.

I have a 4K display and a GTX 1060 and my upscaling is set to NGU sharp (high) which seems perfect for 99% of my content resulting in 0 frames dropped, however with these problematic movies I'm forced to drop NGU sharp down to low if I want to avoid dropped frames.

The movies in question don't appear to be anything special; 1080p, not particularly high bitrates, certainly no more demanding than some of the material I throw at my setup, however they are completely unwatchable.

Can anyone suggest the best way to troubleshoot this?

[huhn]

the frame rate of the movies would be interesting. maybe deinterlancing?

[SamuriHL]

Post an osd cap with one of the titles that's giving you trouble so we can take a look.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Clown shoes]

the frame rate of the movies would be interesting. maybe deinterlancing?

Post an osd cap with one of the titles that's giving you trouble so we can take a look.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Thanks guys,

The framerate of the movie is 23.976

https://picload.org/image/dagirarl/screenshot10.png

[huhn]

because you changed the scaling rules to 4x always.

[Clown shoes]

because you changed the scaling rules to 4x always.

Oh right, I think I understand. So is this just an issue for frame sizes that aren't clear divisions of the display size?

EDIT: scratch that, I'm really not sure I do understand this at all.

Is there a good resource for getting my head around scaling in MadVR? I thought I had my head around it but these couple of films seem to behave differently to everything else :(

[SamuriHL]

Yea, your rendering times are off the chart as huhn said likely because of the scaling. That's an odd source resolution.

[huhn]

Oh right, I think I understand. So is this just an issue for frame sizes that aren't clear divisions of the display size?

EDIT: scratch that, I'm really not sure I do understand this at all.

Is there a good resource for getting my head around scaling in MadVR? I thought I had my head around it but these couple of films seem to behave differently to everything else :(

you changed this option to always.
https://abload.de/img/herewegoagaintzuuk.png

for reasons beyond me.

[Clown shoes]

Yea, your rendering times are off the chart as huhn said likely because of the scaling. That's an odd source resolution.

The thing is my scaling settings aren't set up for anything crazy bearing in mind I have a GTX1060.

[Clown shoes]

you changed this option to always.
https://abload.de/img/herewegoagaintzuuk.png

for reasons beyond me.

Well now I'm very confused because I didn't do that at all.

I had NGU sharp set as my luma upscaler with high on the doubler. Everything else is set to let MadVR decide. Is that really so stressful for a 1060?

The only way I can prevent dropped frames is by setting it to NGU sharp low

[Clown shoes]

Yea, your rendering times are off the chart as huhn said likely because of the scaling. That's an odd source resolution.

Is it possible the peculiar resolution is the problem?

[huhn]

https://abload.de/img/herewegoagaintzuuk.png
set this to "only if scaling factor is 4.0 (or bigger)" and see if it still happens.

[Clown shoes]

https://abload.de/img/herewegoagaintzuuk.png
set this to "only if scaling factor is 4.0 (or bigger)" and see if it still happens.

Yes! That fixed it. No frames are now being dropped :D

Thanks huhn.

So does that mean that MadVR was trying to quadruple the frame size as it was slightly less than 1080p and then downscale it again?

[huhn]

yes and if that happens with "let madVR decide" i see this as a real problem and it should be changed to at least 3.0. quadrupling for 20 missing pixel is just a total overkill.

just my opinion.

[SamuriHL]

yes and if that happens with "let madVR decide" i see this as a real problem and it should be changed to at least 3.0. quadrupling for 20 missing pixel is just a total overkill.

just my opinion.

I agree. That seems like a weird edge case with a non-standard resolution but one maybe madshi can look at.

[Asmodian]

yes and if that happens with "let madVR decide" i see this as a real problem and it should be changed to at least 3.0. quadrupling for 20 missing pixel is just a total overkill.

just my opinion.

I agree, quadrupling for less than a 3.0x upscale is total overkill, and even a negative at times. However, I thought "let madVR decide" for quadrupling was 2.4x so quadrupling should not have activated. :confused:

[Clown shoes]

My 4k display is 8bit + frc and I can't work out whether I should be setting MadVR to 8bit or 10bit.

Would there be any obvious downside to selecting either in this case?

[spotswood]

OK, thanks. But, the problem with Intel 7th gen mobile processors is that you have to make a choice of either getting a quad-core CPU with a weaker iGPU, or a dual-core CPU with better (Iris Plus) iGPU.

for madVR get the iris pro.

most content can be hardware decoded. an dual core is fine for most content anyway.

madVR doesn't care about CPU core numbers.But what about system memory or does it matter? I'm thinking about getting the newest Surface Pro equipped w/an i7, Iris Plus 640, and either 8GB or 16GB of system memory. Going to be using it mainly for the usual stuff, internet, email etc and watching my blu-ray collection on my TV via the display port and a little video encoding w/BDRebuilder. Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated. TIA!

[ryrynz]

8GB Memory is plenty. A Surface Pro system will be fine.

[70MM]

I have a small problem and not sure how to describe it.
Im not sure if its an issue with my JVC X9900 that I resently changed to from a JVC X9500.
I had never seen this artifact on the X9500.
I have all processing turned off on the X9900.

The issue comes about only accasionally when the screen is black and the next image fades in. The look of the fade in kind of goes into double ghosting, or the look of water/waves moving across the screen.
I just tried to video it to show you guys but it doesnt show up clear on the video.
The artifact appears for a few seconds after the text "The Mountain Between Us", however you will not really see it on this video.
https://youtu.be/TmhsoMWAVs0

I use the 1080Ti card and upscale BDs to 4K using NGU sharp. I have tried NGU soft, NGU AA and many others, the artifact is still there. I have tried dont render frames during fade in and out, doesnt help. Ive spent hours playing this scene over and over when turning almost evrything off on madvr and on the proj, it doesnt help. My rendering times are very very low, round 17ms, I have no dropped frames...

It might just be the projector, as I say this never used to happen with the X9500. I dont think I ever see this during a film, maybe only at the start...

Thoughts please?

[huhn]

the ghosting is easily visible in the video. but not sure if this is the issue you are talking about.

can you make me a screen of the OSD?

[thighhighs]

I thought "let madVR decide" for quadrupling was 2.4x so quadrupling should not have activated. :confused:
2.4 default for double again mode (or NGU AA). For direct 4x "if any upscaling is needed" by default.

[spotswood]

8GB Memory is plenty. A Surface Pro system will be fine.Thank you for your fast reply, 8GB it is. Will save me a few buck too. Love this forum... and madVR!

[70MM]

the ghosting is easily visible in the video. but not sure if this is the issue you are talking about.

can you make me a screen of the OSD?

You really cant see the artifact Im describing in the video. What you are seeing is not the problem described. The video is not displaying this ghost/double image on the fade in after the text "The Mountain Between Us"

I really think its an issue with the JVC X9900.

This video has the OSD stats. The top display section 23.97??? is missing from the OSD with my black velvet screen masking.
https://youtu.be/gI2jQ49NJSc

[huhn]

Thank you for your fast reply, 8GB it is. Will save me a few buck too. Love this forum... and madVR!
make sure your device of choice doesn't have thermal throttling issues(sadly not uncommon for small factor intel devices) and you are not going to do more than FHD.

[runner]

I would like to know how to use the control function for the videoprojector, in particular I would like at the end of the playback to return to position 1 of the lens. thank you

[chros]

My 4k display is 8bit + frc and I can't work out whether I should be setting MadVR to 8bit or 10bit.
Mine is also 8bit+frc (see in the signature): use 10bit in madvr.

[Siso]

In regards of refresh rates, which one is the better option - to overclock your monitor to be used 72hz all the time (no switching), or to use the default 60hz, and to create 48hz and madvr to switch it on when needed? I don't like smooth motion at all :/

[hannes69]

If you don´t like smoothmotion, use custom refresh rates according to your video material and according to the capabilities of your monitor.
For 23.976fps movies use refresh rate 23.976Hz OR 47.952Hz OR 71.928Hz OR ... Which one doesn´t matter, use the one your monitor accepts.
So a full set of refresh rates for all possible common movie frame rates would mean e.g. 47.952Hz (->23.976fps), 48.000Hz (->24.000fps, 48.000fps), 50.000Hz (->25.000fps, 50.000fps), 59.94Hz (->29.970fps, 59.940fps), 60.000Hz (->30.000fps, 60.000fps). Or other multiples if your monitor doesn´t accept these ones.
72Hz with no switching only works correctly for 24.000fps movies, so that´s no option when wanting judder free playback and not using smoothmotion.
The default 60Hz are usually in reality 59.94Hz, so with your default "60 Hz" and 48 Hz you could only playback 29.970 fps, 59.940fps, 24.000fps and 48.000fps correctly.
It depends on your video material, but for all possible scenarios you would need the 5 custom refresh rates, see above.
I wouldn´t use the term "overclocking" in this context. Ok, a colcok of 72Hz is higher than the "default 60Hz", but there aren´t the same principles like overclocking e.g. a GPU or a CPU (which gives more temperature and more electrical stress on the components). A monitor accepts a given refresh rate by the computer or not. A higher refresh rate doesn´t do any harm or is dangerous. The worst thing that could happen is, that you have to do a safe boot because of getting a black screen when using a custom resolution your monitor doesn´t accept. But that´s it. Use whatever your monitor can display correctly.

[Asmodian]

2.4 default for double again mode (or NGU AA). For direct 4x "if any upscaling is needed" by default.

Ah! The complexity! :p

Thanks. :)

[ABDO]

Which one doesn´t matter, use the one your monitor accepts..
thanks for this great explanation.

[Siso]

If you don´t like smoothmotion, use custom refresh rates according to your video material and according to the capabilities of your monitor.
For 23.976fps movies use refresh rate 23.976Hz OR 47.952Hz OR 71.928Hz OR ... Which one doesn´t matter, use the one your monitor accepts.
So a full set of refresh rates for all possible common movie frame rates would mean e.g. 47.952Hz (->23.976fps), 48.000Hz (->24.000fps, 48.000fps), 50.000Hz (->25.000fps, 50.000fps), 59.94Hz (->29.970fps, 59.940fps), 60.000Hz (->30.000fps, 60.000fps). Or other multiples if your monitor doesn´t accept these ones.
72Hz with no switching only works correctly for 24.000fps movies, so that´s no option when wanting judder free playback and not using smoothmotion.
The default 60Hz are usually in reality 59.94Hz, so with your default "60 Hz" and 48 Hz you could only playback 29.970 fps, 59.940fps, 24.000fps and 48.000fps correctly.
It depends on your video material, but for all possible scenarios you would need the 5 custom refresh rates, see above.
I wouldn´t use the term "overclocking" in this context. Ok, a colcok of 72Hz is higher than the "default 60Hz", but there aren´t the same principles like overclocking e.g. a GPU or a CPU (which gives more temperature and more electrical stress on the components). A monitor accepts a given refresh rate by the computer or not. A higher refresh rate doesn´t do any harm or is dangerous. The worst thing that could happen is, that you have to do a safe boot because of getting a black screen when using a custom resolution your monitor doesn´t accept. But that´s it. Use whatever your monitor can display correctly.

72hz and reclock works very well, I have no repeated or dropped frames for around 12 hours. Reclock likes 24 multiple refresh rates.

[Asmodian]

72hz and reclock works very well, I have no repeated or dropped frames for around 12 hours. Reclock likes 24 multiple refresh rates.

Reclock simply likes it "close enough" so you won't notice. It would change the audio speed less if you used a multiple of 23.976 Hz instead of 72 (at least for 24/1.001 fps content). Not that it is important, but Reclock is for when you cannot match your refresh rates, it is like smooth motion for the audio.

edit: actually that analogy isn't very good, Reclock cannot deal with 24 fps into 60 Hz but it is good for 29.97 fps at 60 Hz, where smooth motion is also good for preventing dropped frames. :o