madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madshi]

the digicam has other issues one of the mast of the ship nearly disappears on the NGU sharp digicam image (i guess the shutter time was to long the image is pretty bright in general)
True.

we could argue about that forever because it never really fair to compare to different image sizes.
IMHO my digicam shots are not perfect, but pretty fair. :)

it a RGB pixel type correction still on your to do list? (it has a specail name i didn't remember c... correction)
Convergence correction? Yes, it's still on my to do list, but it's only meant for front/back projection, because those devices can have different RGB convergence on the left side of the screen compared to the right side, because projector lenses are not perfect, so the RGB channels can be stretched differently to the screen. This algo will not help to fix RGB subpixel position problems in LCD monitors. I don't think this subpixel position problem can be properly fixed. Ok, I think ClearType tries to improve it. *Maybe* I could try, too, but I don't think I can do miracles there. For front projection the potential benefits are bigger.

fine by me. i guess we are done with the topic now?
Yes, please! :)

this should be the same issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen-door_effect
Yes, but I think the SDE mainly talks about just the pixel gap. It's a problem that's best known in the front projection world, simply because the pixels are so large there, that also the pixel gap is becoming very large. It was a much bigger problem with SD front projectors or even 720p projectors as it is now with 1080p front projectors. Also, everyone has been working on improving the fillrate to reduce this problem.

All front projectors (that I know) don't have RGB subpixels, but they try to project the RGB components to the same place on screen. So front projection does not have this RGB subpixel situation that LCD monitors have. They "just" have the pixel gap problem.

I have a new machine that only has Intel HD 530 graphics (Core i5-6500) and I can't seem to get MadVR working well with MPC-HC 1.7.13 at all.
you are not decoding fast enough.
^ huhn has said it all.

This does not seem to be a madVR specific problem. Your decoder is simply not fast enough. I don't know the reason.

I am a nvidia driver 388.00, i will downgrade to 385, what does it change?
Maybe it will fix the problem? Or maybe not. We won't know until you try.

[DragonQ]

lavfilter can hardware deinterlance. but i take your answer as software deinterlancing try it without check the CPU load is hardware decoding used.
Good point, I've turned off YADIF for now and the CPU usage seems more normal. Still loads of frame drops though.

is ffdshow used?
Not as far as I can tell. Literally MPC-HC out of the box with only changes to LAV and setting the output renderer to madVR.

you edit your post can you make a screen with DXVA native your old screen had 8 ms rendertimes.
Even worse when using DXVA decoding and deinterlacing:

https://i.imgur.com/u6SDGhP.png

This does not seem to be a madVR specific problem. Your decoder is simply not fast enough. I don't know the reason.

The decoding looks fine if I use avcodec and DXVA deinterlacing, but rendering times are through the roof:

https://i.imgur.com/qe4QMQV.png

The dropped frames disappear entirely if I deactivate deinterlacing. Could it be that, for some reason, DXVA deinterlacing is horrifically slow with Intel IGPs?

[huhn]

can you check the temp of your CPU without very heavy thermal throttling i have no real idea what is happening there.

your GPUs takes 16 ms to deinterlance a frame...

the decoding queue still looks odd or upload is not fast enough which makes no sense.

edit: try to disable deinterlance as a test (control+d) maybe the rendertimes get normal again.
and can you post the filter list from mpc-hc.

[DragonQ]

I managed to get it playing perfectly setting "use DXVA chroma upscaling when doing DXVA deinterlacing", setting image downscaling to DXVA2, and also setting chroma and image buffers to 10bit. Pretty sure my ancient Arrandale chip didn't need such drastic measures to play these kinds of files! I have to use D3D9 because D3D11 is a complete mess and unusable.

Not sure about throttling - without admin rights I am not sure how to view CPU temperature or even current clock speed. Everything is ticked in the MPC-HC filter list; LAV Filters are definitely being used.

[huhn]

https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

decoding a normal bit rate h264 1080p stream with software deinterlancing is no real problem for such a CPU.

i can't follow you admin right problems.

your iGPU should be able to more than this...

[khanmein]

@leandronb Did you try out 388.13 with new branch r388_10-4. I suggest you either use another driver or install the preview which fixed the issues.

Be patient to wait for the next cumulative updates. Cheers.

[DragonQ]

https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

decoding a normal bit rate h264 1080p stream with software deinterlancing is no real problem for such a CPU.

i can't follow you admin right problems.

your iGPU should be able to more than this...
I would agree, it is rather odd. My Xeon X5650 shows ~5% CPU usage whilst decoding the same file - it's clocked 1 GHz higher but several generations behind so I would expect the two CPUs to perform similarly per core (5% of 12 threads should equate to 15% of 4 threads). I don't see what else the CPU would be doing as long as deinterlacing is done by the GPU. I checked the drivers and they're not the latest but they're not crappy generic ones either.

[YxP]

Enabling reduce compression artifacts and/or reduce random noise with NNEDI3 chroma (image is fine) upscaling crashes madvr. Win10 x64 GTX 1060 388.00. This doesn't really affect me but I thought I'd mention. Maybe someone else can reproduce this?

[xabregas]

Good point, I've turned off YADIF for now and the CPU usage seems more normal. Still loads of frame drops though.


Not as far as I can tell. Literally MPC-HC out of the box with only changes to LAV and setting the output renderer to madVR.


Even worse when using DXVA decoding and deinterlacing:

https://i.imgur.com/u6SDGhP.png



The decoding looks fine if I use avcodec and DXVA deinterlacing, but rendering times are through the roof:

https://i.imgur.com/qe4QMQV.png

The dropped frames disappear entirely if I deactivate deinterlacing. Could it be that, for some reason, DXVA deinterlacing is horrifically slow with Intel IGPs?

Why dont u let madvr do deinterlacing on its own without dxva enabled. U say u are using dxva deinterlacing where? On the decoder?

Because i see madvr doind the default deinterlacing anyway...

[huhn]

madVR deinterlancing is done by DXVA.

[Oguignant]

Hi!!!

HDR works with the Nvidia drivers release 388.13?

[leandronb]

Maybe it will fix the problem? Or maybe not. We won't know until you try.

I thought that after 385.xx nvidia changed something, and that is why you are recommending it. I will try it, but i'm pretty sure is a windows problem.

[nevcairiel]

HDR works with the Nvidia drivers release 388.13?

Why don't you try it, it literally takes only minutes.

[Oguignant]

Why don't you try it, it literally takes only minutes.

:thanks:I have my reasons for not trying it myself. Every time I updated Nvidia drivers I have problems with Calman Client 3... many times I lose icc profiles ...

[oldpainlesskodi]

:thanks:I have my reasons for not trying it myself. Every time I updated Nvidia drivers I have problems with Calman Client 3... many times I lose icc profiles ...

I have tried 388.13, and immediately rolled back my driver..after washing my mouth out! (HDR borked)

K

[khanmein]

If I use D3D11 (Native) + MPC-HC (FSE), press Esc while the video is playing will caused the screen became black without any cursor & the only solution is to reboot the PC.

Microsoft & NVIDIA are the culprit.

[Paul Tronc]

doesn't look like VEGA has any issue with NGU.


Hello Huhn and all people ,

May I ask your opininion about Vega 56 before I buy a new card? I'd like to render bluray and UHD movies on my 4k projector. Coming from a GTX960 which is clearly on the knees, I want to render smooth 4k 10bit videos just like I did with my 1080p projector and blu ray movies, using SVP in combination with madvr. The CPU is a 2600k@4.4Ghz.
I was about to buy a basic 1070 for 350e but I can get a Vega 56 for 40 more euros. Do you think it's worth upgrading to a Vega 56 instead of a 1070? I'd prefer to avoid weird bugs, there a few feedbacks here. Noise and power are not to be considered.

[Razoola]

Those having HDR not switching off issues in the newer nvidia drivers, do you can a 'software has stopped responding' or other kind of crash as you stop HDR playback?

[xabregas]

Hello Huhn and all people ,

May I ask your opininion about Vega 56 before I buy a new card? I'd like to render bluray and UHD movies on my 4k projector. Coming from a GTX960 which is clearly on the knees, I want to render smooth 4k 10bit videos just like I did with my 1080p projector and blu ray movies, using SVP in combination with madvr. The CPU is a 2600k@4.4Ghz.
I was about to buy a basic 1070 for 350e but I can get a Vega 56 for 40 more euros. Do you think it's worth upgrading to a Vega 56 instead of a 1070? I'd prefer to avoid weird bugs, there a few feedbacks here. Noise and power are not to be considered.

the russian svp??

[clsid]

If I use D3D11 (Native) + MPC-HC (FSE), press Esc while the video is playing will caused the screen became black without any cursor & the only solution is to reboot the PC.

Microsoft & NVIDIA are the culprit.
I have heard that this problem is going to be fixed in next Win10 cumulative update (next week).

Until then you can fix it by "disabling fullscreen optimizations" in the Windows compatiblity settings of your player.

[huhn]

Hello Huhn and all people ,

May I ask your opininion about Vega 56 before I buy a new card? I'd like to render bluray and UHD movies on my 4k projector. Coming from a GTX960 which is clearly on the knees, I want to render smooth 4k 10bit videos just like I did with my 1080p projector and blu ray movies, using SVP in combination with madvr. The CPU is a 2600k@4.4Ghz.
I was about to buy a basic 1070 for 350e but I can get a Vega 56 for 40 more euros. Do you think it's worth upgrading to a Vega 56 instead of a 1070? I'd prefer to avoid weird bugs, there a few feedbacks here. Noise and power are not to be considered.

hard to say but you should really wait for a custom cooled version lower temps give better performance on these cards.

[Klaus1189]

I ordered a Nvidia Card. Is HDR really so bad with Nvidia driver updates -> not working or ???

[Asmodian]

HDR Works but it isn't smooth, you need to do manual setup/unset or you get a bad image or even a crash. It will probably be fixed in a few versions of the drivers and/or a Windows update. HDR on PC has been hit or miss version to version since I got an HDR display. :p

Edit: I don't have any HDR content to watch on PC, that isn't a demo, so this hasn't been an issue for me. Still it is impressive how hard keeping HDR working apparently is.

[Werewolfy]

Well, you probably won't want to constantly use nearest neighbor upscaling, so using a keyboard shortcut to activate it on demand should do the trick, shouldn't it?


Well, it's not very convenient because you have to manually disable doubling in the UI too.

I know that you redesigned the UI and that you don't have the place anymore for nearest-neighbor so I'm not asking you to modifiy it again just to add this option now. But if you should modify again the UI in the future, please keep in mind that the return of nearest-neighbor is a good idea for some usages.

Or you could probably remove Spline, I think that nobody uses it...

[Razoola]

The last driver I have used where HDR seems to switch on and off correctly is 384.94, I don't know if any 385.xx driver works correctly with HDR switching but 387.92 and up to 388.13 are all broke for me.

[Dorohedoro]

Not directly related to madvr, but I have a question for you madshi because you have a jvc projector like me. Do you have some panning flickering playing at 23hz? I know that is normal for film content (there is flicker at the theater too) but with my jvc the effect is more apparent on some bright high contrast movies like for example Everest. Do you think I will see any improvements in motion if I play a movie with a high end player like the oppo 203? or it will be the same because of the projector?

I have to say that I hate frame interpolation.

Thanks man.

[Clammerz]

Well, it's not very convenient because you have to manually disable doubling in the UI too.
I know that you redesigned the UI and that you don't have the place anymore for nearest-neighbor so I'm not asking you to modifiy it again just to add this option now. But if you should modify again the UI in the future, please keep in mind that the return of nearest-neighbor is a good idea for some usages.
Or you could probably remove Spline, I think that nobody uses it...

Pretty sure there were a few people still adamant about spline.

Regarding nearest neighbour, perhaps it's best to have as a filename/folder tag which ignores other scaling settings. Since you would usually know that you want to use it on a file/folder by file/folder basis.

[Werewolfy]

Pretty sure there were a few people still adamant about spline.

Regarding nearest neighbour, perhaps it's best to have as a filename/folder tag which ignores other scaling settings. Since you would usually know that you want to use it on a file/folder by file/folder basis.

Thanks, very clever. I will try that.

[leandronb]

Maybe it will fix the problem? Or maybe not. We won't know until you try.

Just tested with nvidia 385.69 same problem happens. Seems like is a windows 10 fall creators issue.

[oldpainlesskodi]

Just tested with nvidia 385.69 same problem happens. Seems like is a windows 10 fall creators issue.

385.41 or 378.92 working fine for HDR on the Fall update here (as I am now repeating myself :D )

K

[khanmein]

I have heard that this problem is going to be fixed in next Win10 cumulative update (next week).

Until then you can fix it by "disabling fullscreen optimizations" in the Windows compatiblity settings of your player.

Yeah, look like Microsoft issue & even enabled Vulkan for Doom & Dota 2 also black screen + w/o any cursor.

Microsoft stated they fixed the issue in the Preview, but my cursor is disappeared & 'Alt + Tab' MPC-HC (FSE) or any Vulkan games will result the same behavior.

- We fixed an issue where toggling some DX9/DX10/DX11 games between windowed and fullscreen (for example using Alt + Tab) could result in the game window become black on certain PCs.

- We fixed the issue where if you RDP into a PC running this build with certain GPU configurations, when you go to sign in to the PC locally it will appear stuck at a black screen with only the cursor available

[Razoola]

I just tried 385.41 and indeed HDR is turning on and off fine for me on win7 x64.

[el Filou]

I managed to get it playing perfectly setting "use DXVA chroma upscaling when doing DXVA deinterlacing", setting image downscaling to DXVA2, and also setting chroma and image buffers to 10bit. Pretty sure my ancient Arrandale chip didn't need such drastic measures to play these kinds of files! I have to use D3D9 because D3D11 is a complete mess and unusable.There must be a way to make this work, I can play 1080i just fine on my 2011 laptop with Intel HD 3000.
Did you check that the video picture 'enhancements' are disabled in the Intel Graphics control panel? Is the power profile of the Intel Graphics on Balanced? Try creating an empty file named ShowRenderSteps in madVR's folder so you can see the detailed rendering stats, it might help.

[jkauff]

@madshi. I'm working with a new 4K computer monitor that I also watch some movies on. I can set up 50hz for my PAL content in Custom Resolutions with no problems (although not 25hz). When I try to do 23hz, however, the monitor accepts it and plays just fine, but when I try to save I always get the "GPU did not accept" error message.

I can set up 23.976hz using CRU 1.3.1, and it works fine, but of course I get no optimizations. What are you doing to set custom resolutions that is different from CRU, and is there anything you can change so that the GPU accepts the resolution?

Tonight I'll try to do one close to 47.952hz and see if I have more luck.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I'm running a GTX 1080 with latest drivers.

[GCRaistlin]

Which version of AMD driver is currently the best for madVR / Win8.1 / HD7850?
What are the most powerful AMD videocards that is worth to use with madVR with Xeon L5240 / Xeon X5260 / Xeon E5430 / Xeon 5160 (please specify per CPU)?

[Razoola]

@madshi. I'm working with a new 4K computer monitor that I also watch some movies on. I can set up 50hz for my PAL content in Custom Resolutions with no problems (although not 25hz). When I try to do 23hz, however, the monitor accepts it and plays just fine, but when I try to save I always get the "GPU did not accept" error message.

I can set up 23.976hz using CRU 1.3.1, and it works fine, but of course I get no optimizations. What are you doing to set custom resolutions that is different from CRU, and is there anything you can change so that the GPU accepts the resolution?

Tonight I'll try to do one close to 47.952hz and see if I have more luck.

EDIT: Forgot to mention I'm running a GTX 1080 with latest drivers.

Have you tried making sure the monitor in question is not at a standard 23 or 24 hz resolution before you start the process of setting up the custom resolution?

[DragonQ]

There must be a way to make this work, I can play 1080i just fine on my 2011 laptop with Intel HD 3000.
Did you check that the video picture 'enhancements' are disabled in the Intel Graphics control panel? Is the power profile of the Intel Graphics on Balanced? Try creating an empty file named ShowRenderSteps in madVR's folder so you can see the detailed rendering stats, it might help.
Intel power profile is Performance. Most of the enhancements are set to "Application Settings", and I've tried with Film Mode Detection both on and off. I'll try that ShowRenderSteps thing, thanks.

EDIT: OK so these screenshots are all with very basic settings with ShowRenderSteps enabled. It's a 1080i/25 video played at 1080p using DXVA2 native with DXVA deinterlacing. Any clues as to what's wrong here? The last screenshot shows when it's working but only just: render time is hovering at 19-20 ms.

DXVA2 native, DXVA deinterlacing, bicubic60 chroma, 16bit buffers
https://i.imgur.com/A77rOlT.png

avcodec, DXVA deinterlacing, DXVA chroma, 16bit buffers
https://i.imgur.com/W9qXF22.png

avcodec, DXVA deinterlacing, DXVA chroma, 10bit buffers
https://i.imgur.com/3XKMFlA.png

[Sebastiii]

Yeah, look like Microsoft issue & even enabled Vulkan for Doom & Dota 2 also black screen + w/o any cursor.

Microsoft stated they fixed the issue in the Preview, but my cursor is disappeared & 'Alt + Tab' MPC-HC (FSE) or any Vulkan games will result the same behavior.

- We fixed an issue where toggling some DX9/DX10/DX11 games between windowed and fullscreen (for example using Alt + Tab) could result in the game window become black on certain PCs.

- We fixed the issue where if you RDP into a PC running this build with certain GPU configurations, when you go to sign in to the PC locally it will appear stuck at a black screen with only the cursor available

The RDP issue is not fixed on my side on 17025 !!!

[khanmein]

The RDP issue is not fixed on my side on 17025 !!!

I didn't use RDP, but Microsoft stated they fixed it. :eek: Hence, you should report to Microsoft.

Now, temporary I can't use FSE mode. :confused:

[Sebastiii]

I didn't use RDP, but Microsoft stated they fixed it. :eek: Hence, you should report to Microsoft.

Now, temporary I can't use FSE mode. :confused:

Yep i have reported it :)

[jkauff]

Have you tried making sure the monitor in question is not at a standard 23 or 24 hz resolution before you start the process of setting up the custom resolution?
Yes, it doesn't have any low standard resolutions. Nothing below 48hz.

[Blackwalker]

Here's my reply which I think you've ignored so far:

https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php?p=1822199&postcount=46670





thanks madshi and i just told you sorry,
i dont know why, but i miss your suggestions!! :confused:


i have some iussue...

my htpc start and its already in HDR mode (my tv is a LG 65B6V) and it ok.

So i start to play the movie and it stay in hdr mode (i see the "hdr on" message), but when i double click on mpc-hc and it go to full screen not always stay in HDR mode, i mean the hdr mode go away....and i have to switch to full screen/windows mode several times, double cliccking, before i see "hdr on" in full screen mode....wondering why!

sorry for my english hope i write it good :thanks:
maybe the nvidia driver?

[DragonQ]

Intel power profile is Performance. Most of the enhancements are set to "Application Settings", and I've tried with Film Mode Detection both on and off. I'll try that ShowRenderSteps thing, thanks.

EDIT: OK so these screenshots are all with very basic settings with ShowRenderSteps enabled. It's a 1080i/25 video played at 1080p using DXVA2 native with DXVA deinterlacing. Any clues as to what's wrong here? The last screenshot shows when it's working but only just: render time is hovering at 19-20 ms.

SNIP

Here's the same file (different section but times are pretty consistent anyway) playing on my laptop with Intel HD Graphics 4000 (Core i5-3320M), which should be noticeably worse. This is with the same settings as the second screenshot above: avcodec, DXVA deinterlacing, DXVA chroma, 16bit buffers.

Left: HD 530; Right: HD 4000
https://i.imgur.com/W9qXF22.png https://i.imgur.com/T9u1GPb.png

This makes no sense to me. Everything except "present" is significantly longer on the more powerful iGPU.

[huhn]

try to check the your temps with hwmonitor

[DragonQ]

try to check the your temps with hwmonitor
I find it hard to believe it'd be throttling harder than a mobile chip in a laptop but I'll try to get someone with admin rights to help me out. Probably difficult though since all of these monitoring programs require administrator rights to run, not just install.

[aufkrawall]

Btw. in case presentation glitches are driving you crazy all of a sudden: There seems to be an issue with the latest Nvidia driver or drivers when polling power sensor with tools like GPU-Z or Afterburner.

[khanmein]

I find it hard to believe it'd be throttling harder than a mobile chip in a laptop but I'll try to get someone with admin rights to help me out. Probably difficult though since all of these monitoring programs require administrator rights to run, not just install.

Temporarily avoid using HWMonitor, not accurate anymore. They still unable to fix the core & memory clock issue.

Try to use HWiNFO & Open Hardware Monitor, which have portable application too.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/threads/the-throttlestop-guide.531329/

[mclingo]

any plans to upgrade or change the deinterlacing, been watching some older HBO shows like "from the earth to the moon" recently and MADVR/LAV makes a real mess of these compared to something like phosphor in VLC, obviously that's the only thing VLC has to offer. I'm aware this is subjective though.

[huhn]

you are aware that phosphor works like this? Doubler. This filter attempts to simulate the rendering mechanism of a traditional CRT TV. The latest two half-pictures are displayed, the old one fading out. The strength of the fade effect can be configured in All Preferences, see Video > Filters > Deinterlace.

[mclingo]

yes, to my eye it still looks far better than anything currently available in LAV/MADVR/KODI.