madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Asmodian]

I am simply mildly annoyed that they call RGB "RGB 4:4:4", as if there could be something like "RGB 4:2:2". Describing the chroma sampling pattern for RGB formats makes no sense. :p

But nothing is wrong with the image, and it does have full resolution "chroma".

[huhn]

AMD always did this.

and yes you can subsample RGB it simply doesn't make any sense.

[nevcairiel]

and yes you can subsample RGB it simply doesn't make any sense.

Not with HDMI you can't.

[Razoola]

In relation to the new Nvidia RTX graphic cards and the video decoding they support I read the following for those intrsted (from guru3d)...

The video processor also has had a bit of an update and offers an improved video and hardware en/decoder. HEVC 8K30 HDR real-time sees 25% bitrate savings. H.264 up to 15% bitrate savings. Turing GPUs can drive two 8K displays at 60 Hz with one cable for each display. Turing’s new display engine supports HDR processing natively in the display pipeline. Tone mapping has also been added to the HDR pipeline. Tone mapping is a technique used to approximate the look of high dynamic range images on standard dynamic range displays. Turing supports the tone mapping formula defined by the ITU-R Recommendation BT.2100 standard to avoid color shift on different HDR displays. Turing GPUs also ship with an enhanced NVENC encoder unit that adds support for H.265 (HEVC) 8K encode at 30 fps. The new NVENC encoder provides up to 25% bitrate savings for HEVC and up to 15% bitrate savings for H.264. Turing’s new NVDEC decoder has also been updated to support decoding of HEVC YUV444 10/12b HDR at 30 fps, H.264 8K, and VP9 10/12b HDR.

[huhn]

Not with HDMI you can't.

why should anyone sane add this.

[YGPMOLE]

Hi guys!

I didn't want to start a flame, just understand and learn a little bit more from who knows really more than I do!

That's my situation now: after checking every option in LAV, the output is NV12 for SD and HD 8 Bit (MPeg2 DVDs, and H264 .mkv) and P010 for HEVC 10 Bit UHD; with the same settings of before, madVR produces dropped frames: I suppose because colorspace conversion and chroma upsampling are on his shoulder, and I have to re-optimize.

If I simply enable SVP to do frame rate conversion for SD and HD, LAV changes automatically his output to YV12: I suppose to "talk" with FFDshow input, am I right?

In this situation, FFDShow output at NV12: wouldn't be better to force his output at YV12 (to avoid the YV12 - > NV12 conversion), and let madVR do directly the YV12 - > RGB conversion?

[huhn]

That's my situation now: after checking every option in LAV, the output is NV12 for SD and HD 8 Bit (MPeg2 DVDs, and H264 .mkv) and P010 for HEVC 10 Bit UHD; with the same settings of before, madVR produces dropped frames: I suppose because colorspace conversion and chroma upsampling are on his shoulder, and I have to re-optimize.

yes chroma scaling cost a little bit.

If I simply enable SVP to do frame rate conversion for SD and HD, LAV changes automatically his output to YV12: I suppose to "talk" with FFDshow input, am I right?

nv12 and yv12 are pretty much the same thing a conversation between them is very fast and lossless.

In this situation, FFDShow output at NV12: wouldn't be better to force his output at YV12 (to avoid the YV12 - > NV12 conversion), and let madVR do directly the YV12 - > RGB conversion?

madVR can convert pretty much everything that lavfilter outputs directly to RGB.

[kostik]

In relation to the new Nvidia RTX graphic cards and the video decoding they support I read the following for those intrsted (from guru3d)...

The video processor also has had a bit of an update and offers an improved video and hardware en/decoder. HEVC 8K30 HDR real-time sees 25% bitrate savings. H.264 up to 15% bitrate savings. Turing GPUs can drive two 8K displays at 60 Hz with one cable for each display. Turing’s new display engine supports HDR processing natively in the display pipeline. Tone mapping has also been added to the HDR pipeline. Tone mapping is a technique used to approximate the look of high dynamic range images on standard dynamic range displays. Turing supports the tone mapping formula defined by the ITU-R Recommendation BT.2100 standard to avoid color shift on different HDR displays. Turing GPUs also ship with an enhanced NVENC encoder unit that adds support for H.265 (HEVC) 8K encode at 30 fps. The new NVENC encoder provides up to 25% bitrate savings for HEVC and up to 15% bitrate savings for H.264. Turing’s new NVDEC decoder has also been updated to support decoding of HEVC YUV444 10/12b HDR at 30 fps, H.264 8K, and VP9 10/12b HDR.

Will the new GPUs output RGB 12/10bit@60Hz via HDMI? or is it still limited to RGB 8Bit@60Hz\12BIT@30Hz-23Hz since the HDMI connecter is the same 'old' HDMI 2.0b?

[huhn]

on paper they have HDMI 2.0. so no.
but the fact they can send 8k 60hz means they may be able to patch it in.

[el Filou]

They can't claim they're HDMI 2.1 yet even if the hardware has been designed to be, because they have to wait for the official certification test spec: https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/ (section 'Testing and Certification FAQs')
Samsung just announced a 8K TV but when asked if it had HDMI 2.1 inputs they said they had to wait for the certification to say anything:
https://www.cnet.com/reviews/samsung-85q900fn-preview/ (search page for HDMI 2.1)

So if you absolutely want 4K 60 Hz 10/12-bit RGB, the best is to specifically ask NVIDIA if the cards support that, but not ask them if the cards will be HDMI 2.1.

[kostik]

They can't claim they're HDMI 2.1 yet even if the hardware has been designed to be, because they have to wait for the official certification test spec: https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/ (section 'Testing and Certification FAQs')
Samsung just announced a 8K TV but when asked if it had HDMI 2.1 inputs they said they had to wait for the certification to say anything:
https://www.cnet.com/reviews/samsung-85q900fn-preview/ (search page for HDMI 2.1)

So if you absolutely want 4K 60 Hz 10/12-bit RGB, the best is to specifically ask NVIDIA if the cards support that, but not ask them if the cards will be HDMI 2.1.

The new GPUs have HDMI 2.0b ports so they don't claim to have HDMI 2.1 . I guess it is possible to use 4k 10/12bit@60HZ using DisplayPort. Or do you mean that the new GPUs have actually HDMI 2.1 ports but hdmi 2.0b is mentioned in specs because they are waiting for official cert?

[huhn]

GPU just have HDMI ports end of story. what type of signal it can send depends on there display engine. if there display engine can produce a signal that is HDMI 2.1 complain they can update the driver to do that.

that's why all kepler cards can do HDMI 2.0 with the HDMI 1.4 bandwidth the a b c was always meaningless for GPUs the display engine matters and well HDCP which can't be updated.

[nevcairiel]

that's why all kepler cards can do HDMI 2.0 with the HDMI 1.4 bandwidth

Adding features like that is just software though, what we're really after with HDMI 2.1 is increased bandwidth. Now they may have planned ahead for that, but its a different situation entirely, since it needs stronger hardware to be able to do the increased bandwidth.

[huhn]

according to the source the hardware to create a signal "like" that is present.

as said before you should never believe in such a thing and never buy hardware in hope they add it until they confirm it and/or it is added.

[SamuriHL]

Which is great and all but everything in your chain has to support it. Meaning you need a TV that can receive it even if the GPU is capable. And if you pass it through a receiver, the receiver must also be compliant. That's why Nev is waiting to upgrade all his stuff. LOL I got impatient and bit the bullet this summer so I'm stuck on HDMI 2.0 equipment. But if you want full bandwidth, remember that it's more than just a GPU upgrade.

[jmone]

The good news is when Madshi's HDR->SDR is done, we can just run everything in 8-Bit and there is plenty of Bandwidth with HDMI 2.0 even with UHD @ 60p. I'll not need to upgrade to 2.1 till 8K content comes out... and that is going to be awhile anyway.

[Betroz]

Have Madshi stopped development of MadVr? There hasn't been any new release since late April as far as I can see.

[kostik]

Have Madshi stopped development of MadVr? There hasn't been any new release since late April as far as I can see.

No. The next final build is coming soon.

[Betroz]

No. The next final build is coming soon.

Ok thanks :)

[madjock]

No, I just recreated my custom resolution yesterday. I had also used the clean install option when installing the newest driver (399.07). Also running win10 1803.

I did not need to restart or anything, it all worked in a nearly ideal fashion and I got down to ~1day between drops or repeats.

Just downloaded 399.24 and as per so many versions since 390.xx I cannot get it to keep a Custom Res I would like.

All I need to do is change 1 number, and it either does not save, it saves what I don't want, and it does its own thing at a seemingly locked nVidia framerate.

How did you get it to keep a custom res you actually needed, or how does it read it as whenever I have something in there it ignores it anyway ?

[Manni]

Just downloaded 399.24 and as per so many versions since 390.xx I cannot get it to keep a Custom Res I would like.

All I need to do is change 1 number, and it either does not save, it saves what I don't want, and it does its own thing at a seemingly locked nVidia framerate.

How did you get it to keep a custom res you actually needed, or how does it read it as whenever I have something in there it ignores it anyway ?

You need to use CRU with any recent version of the drivers, and it will only stick to 12bits if your default mode is 4K23p. If your default mode is 4K60p, it will revert to 8bits.

Both MadVR custom res and Nvidia custom res don't work with recent drivers.

[madjock]

You need to use CRU with any recent version of the drivers, and it will only stick to 12bits if your default mode is 4K23p. If your default mode is 4K60p, it will revert to 8bits.

Both MadVR custom res and Nvidia custom res don't work with recent drivers.

I agree as it has been for a lot of us for a long time, I don't seem to have much luck with CRU either, too many numbers and all I have to do with earlier drivers is change total pixels from 1125 to 1124 when nVidias custom res does work.

Hey ho, back to 390.xx again I guess :)

[Darkimmortal]

Is there an option in madVR to control which GPU it uses?

I have recently setup a multi-gpu system with one powerful GPU and a secondary weak GPU used only to drive an extra monitor. Every application seems to use whatever black magic is done in Windows 10 for the rendering to happen on the powerful GPU and the final image to be sent over PCI-E to the weak GPU.

The only exception to this is madVR - when more than exactly half of the player window is moved on to the monitor connected to the weak GPU, madVR performance falls off a cliff as it starts using the weak GPU for rendering.

Is there an option to disable this behaviour and have it work like other apps/games?

[mrmarioman]

No. The next final build is coming soon.

final build?

[Manni]

final build?

Public / non test build, not final :)

[Asmodian]

Just downloaded 399.24 and as per so many versions since 390.xx I cannot get it to keep a Custom Res I would like.

All I need to do is change 1 number, and it either does not save, it saves what I don't want, and it does its own thing at a seemingly locked nVidia framerate.

How did you get it to keep a custom res you actually needed, or how does it read it as whenever I have something in there it ignores it anyway ?

Make sure that when you make any changes it is not the current active resolution. I simply use madVR's custom resolution page to both create the custom mode and optimize it. Everything worked perfectly the first try, this is only 8 bit video modes as I don't like 10 bit with my TV.

The only thing I needed to pay attention to was making sure my 23 Hz resolution was not active when applying the optimize.

[xabregas]

Is the FSE mode on windows 10 new update corrected or should i still keep my windows 10 before falls creator untouched? Because before 1709 everything is ok on FSE. Works like a charm as in W8 or W7.

[khanmein]

Is the FSE mode on windows 10 new update corrected or should i still keep my windows 10 before falls creator untouched? Because before 1709 everything is ok on FSE. Works like a charm as in W8 or W7.

The FSE is not working with W10 + Nvidia 399.24

[madjock]

Make sure that when you make any changes it is not the current active resolution. I simply use madVR's custom resolution page to both create the custom mode and optimize it. Everything worked perfectly the first try, this is only 8 bit video modes as I don't like 10 bit with my TV.

The only thing I needed to pay attention to was making sure my 23 Hz resolution was not active when applying the optimize.

Thanks for the reply. Well a lot of us do not seem to get the same joy.

TBH I struggled with madVRs custom even with old drivers, as in the ones that promised no frame repeats never seemed to work (probably my fault), but creating a custom one always did.

With the latest drivers (last good few, even the ones with the seemingly locked 23.976), I cant get any joy at all. Same as Manni01 and others.

Strange how some have success, wonder where the difference lies ?

Back to 390.77 and all is well again anyway.

[oldpainlesskodi]

The FSE is not working with W10 + Nvidia 399.24

FSE working here.

[Sparktank]

@madshi, we can get "transfer=2048" for file name tags?
even without meta data for the HDR, it will just have to guess what the tonemapping should be.

[khanmein]

FSE working here.

Are you sure that you enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode under madVR settings?

[oldpainlesskodi]

Are you sure that you enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode under madVR settings?

Yep, OSD showing D3D11 Exclusive 10 bit.

[Sunset1982]

Since I changed my GPU from GTX1070 to AMD's RX480, my tv show a "no signal" message, when the gpu switches tv mode from 60hz to 23/24hz mode or hdr mode. Seems like the amd needs a bit more time to change modes. The GTX1070 chenged a bit faster and no message was shown.

Is there any option within madvr to reduce switching time ? (maybe I will try Windowed and FSE modes...

Anyone with a LG Oled and AMD gpu got the same problem using madvr's auto display changing?

[Klaus1189]

I use also an AMD RX480 but I have a Samsung HDR screen and I don't get a "no singal" message.

[xabregas]

Yep, OSD showing D3D11 Exclusive 10 bit.

Some people can. Some people dont. Im not risking it. I need windows 10 on this mini pc because support for previous windows doesnt exist. 7th generation SOB. Windows 10 previous fall update is OK with madvr FSE mode. It works like a charm on intel uhd 600. So im not risking updating for getting some unknown security updates losing FSE in the process.

They keep telling me you have to update. For WHAT?? I use it as htpc ONLY.

[madjock]

They keep telling me you have to update. For WHAT?? I use it as htpc ONLY.

To be fair they don't know that ?

Excuse my ignorance but what is the point in FSE, I never use it, if its for stopping notifications and it is only used for HTPC, what would you get notifications from.

I don't use it myself and don't think I'm any worse for it, sure I saw Warner write somewhere that it is fake FSE in Windows 10 anyway, but could be wrong.

[mrmojo666]

AMD did break this quite recently but fixed it again with 18.8.1, i havent tried 18.8.2 yet as I never update drivers unless there is a good reason too these days.

Other than that you may still have something setup wrong.

other than general settings these are the only other prerequisites I am aware of with AMD cards.

- is you OLED setup in MADVR as 10bit or higher?
- do you have use Direct3D 11 for presentation (windows 7 and new) ticked - this is required.

Mine also stops working if either of these are not applied.

I'm going mad..... I'm quite sure after your post I've updated to 18.8.1 and tested ..but again yesterday night i got no hdr switch...i went back to 18.2.1 and working as expected..... without any changes in madvr config.....

there is any log that i can look at, to try to understand what's going on ?

thank you

[xabregas]

To be fair they don't know that ?

Excuse my ignorance but what is the point in FSE, I never use it, if its for stopping notifications and it is only used for HTPC, what would you get notifications from.

I don't use it myself and don't think I'm any worse for it, sure I saw Warner write somewhere that it is fake FSE in Windows 10 anyway, but could be wrong.

You arent a FSE believer. You need to see it to understand that some people without it get all kind of banding and blurring you wont get with fullscreen exclusive mode because it will disable anykind of postprocessing stuff your screen is doing. For me FSE mode almost like cleanup the image. The PQ seems more detailed and smooth. Yeah, my eyes can detect that stuff. Windows 10 and probably all windows enable certain feautures than simply arent disabled when you watch a movie in fullscreen windowed mode.

[mclingo]

I'm going mad.......

thats happened to me a few times and is always been either, my TV needed a hard reboot, which it doesnt get very often as you are supposed to leave an OLED on permanently so it can do its nighly pixel cylces or something had switched in my settings and I hadnt noticed, like MADVR had switched to auto or 8 bit, DIRECT3D11 had become unticked, something like that.

I did have a similar issue though, I could have swarn 18.3.4 was working with HDR but when I tried it a while back it wasnt. i'm still on 18.8.1 as I now never change my drivers unless I need to.

[mrmojo666]

thats happened to me a few times and is always been either, my TV needed a hard reboot, which it doesnt get very often as you are supposed to leave an OLED on permanently so it can do its nighly pixel cylces or something had switched in my settings and I hadnt noticed, like MADVR had switched to auto or 8 bit, DIRECT3D11 had become unticked, something like that.

I did have a similar issue though, I could have swarn 18.3.4 was working with HDR but when I tried it a while back it wasnt. i'm still on 18.8.1 as I now never change my drivers unless I need to.

I'm going to check again tonight, at least for tv madvr settings, i'm sure that dx11 is checked because i saw it today..... It's really annoying.
Also i have an lcd so i'm used to cut off powerto all my stuff during the night. so everyday there is a tv reboot.

I'm a bit sad because 18.8.1 are very good drivers for games.....


thank you

[huhn]

FSE is a lie on windows 10.
it obviously can't disable processing at your screen.
notifications and stuff like xbox app, nvidia experience and stuff like this can show "infos" over it because the exclusive part is not true anymore it's just a simulation that been the case for a lot of windows version not only the newest.

i'm not saying you shouldn't use FSE but there is stuff it clearly doesn't do.

[Klaus1189]

For me all optional and normal drivers of AMD worked flawlessly (tried the last 6 ... 8 months) and these also did HDR. I can not reproduce HDR problems.

[GCRaistlin]

madshi
If software deinterlacing mode in LAV Video is Weston Three Field then madVR ignores "treat 25p movies as 24p" setting state and always behaves as it is off.. Sample 25fps video: https://mir.cr/0TFWKUVY
MPC-HC 1.8.1 x86, LAV 0.72.13, madVR 0.92.14

[mrmojo666]

For me all optional and normal drivers of AMD worked flawlessly (tried the last 6 ... 8 months) and these also did HDR. I can not reproduce HDR problems.

It's possible to know which card ? do you refer to HDR autoswitch that is always working ?

thank you

[Klaus1189]

I have an AMD RX480 8GB and use MPC-BE (always latest nightly) with madVR and LAV Filters, HDR is automatically switching -> AMD HDR is visible on first line in madVR stats.

[xabregas]

FSE is a lie on windows 10.
it obviously can't disable processing at your screen.
notifications and stuff like xbox app, nvidia experience and stuff like this can show "infos" over it because the exclusive part is not true anymore it's just a simulation that been the case for a lot of windows version not only the newest.

i'm not saying you shouldn't use FSE but there is stuff it clearly doesn't do.

Xbox app? I disabled all notifications and i have intel HD. Was never interrupted by notifications even on windowed. Idk what you are talking about. On my end if i compare FSE and FSW i see big differences in PQ on windows 10 previous Fall Update.

But i still agree with you that windows 10 overall is shit and that it was kinda better on old windows 8.1 and 7. But i cant install it. I can but the performance will be worst. Because 7th generation cpus u know. CRAP.

[huhn]

madshi
If software deinterlacing mode in LAV Video is Weston Three Field then madVR ignores "treat 25p movies as 24p" setting state and always behaves as it is off.. Sample 25fps video: https://mir.cr/0TFWKUVY
MPC-HC 1.8.1 x86, LAV 0.72.13, madVR 0.92.14

it is able to treat 25p as 24p not 50p as 24p or 48p.

working as intended

[Manni]

To be fair they don't know that ?

Excuse my ignorance but what is the point in FSE, I never use it, if its for stopping notifications and it is only used for HTPC, what would you get notifications from.

I don't use it myself and don't think I'm any worse for it, sure I saw Warner write somewhere that it is fake FSE in Windows 10 anyway, but could be wrong.

FSE is a lie on windows 10.
it obviously can't disable processing at your screen.
notifications and stuff like xbox app, nvidia experience and stuff like this can show "infos" over it because the exclusive part is not true anymore it's just a simulation that been the case for a lot of windows version not only the newest.

i'm not saying you shouldn't use FSE but there is stuff it clearly doesn't do.

For me FSE is still the only way to get 3D to work, although I haven’t checked on 98.24 if I could use windowed. I know some people with nVidia can, but it never worked for me.

Otherwise I hate FSE. I see no PQ improvement with it, and it takes ages to sync HDMI everytime you try to select an audio or subtitle track on my JVC, so I only use it if I can’t do otherwise.

The day 3D works here without FSE, I’ll gladly never use it again.

[huhn]

the system wide 3d may make it work in windowed.

you know you can workaround the resync with hotkeys or something like the MPC-HC web UI.