madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Damien147]

UPDATE:

issue fixed,just added 4096x2160p50 and it plays the particular 25fps source in 50hz.

@tranfa
try :

4096x2160p24, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p29, 4096x2160p30, 4096x2160p50

[madshi]

Hello! I've been using madVR for a long time, though I never posted in this forum. I've taken a few comparison shots comparing NGU/NGU pixart/NNEDI3, since I actually had a look at this thread after noticing that NGU really wasn't doing too well with a certain 720x480 anime source compared to NNEDI3, upscaled to 3840x2160.
Thanks, this image is quite helpful. Do you have some more images like this, which show NGU stumbling? If so, that might help improving NGU (non-pixart). I only need the unscaled image.

Did something change wrt. to taking screenshots with subtitles from xy-subfilter?
Not that I know of right now. But screenshot functionality is going to be revisited at some point in the future.

Yes, the same happens in graphstudionext.
After much testing I was able to find the breaking point:
build 0.90.4.0.
Any build prior to that works OK, any build after (and including) 0.90.4.0 triggers the freeze when seeking during DVD playback.
Hope it helps pinpoint what change broke it.

Edit: after checking the changelog, my bet would be on either of these 2 changes to be the culprit..
* fixed: OSD stopped working when no new frames came from decoder
* last video frame is now remembered for 2 seconds when stopping graph
Interesting. Does this happen with every DVD, or just with some? How can I reproduce this problem exactly (step-by-step guide)?

madshi, I am still getting constant black screen lockups when existing/closing a video, that require a reboot of the computer. I have tried every combination I can think of. D3D9, D3D11, FSE and windowed, DontRenderAfterStop folder with and without.
It even happens if you disable fullscreen exclusive mode!?!? That seems very weird. Which OS and GPU are you using? If it's NVidia or Intel, have you tried Overlay mode? Otherwise you could also try reducing the number of pre-presented frames ("present in advance"), or turning pre-present off completely.

Have you tried different GPU driver versions? This is most likely a GPU driver bug.

@madshi: I've watched a lot more SD movies using the test build, and I've found that NGUpixart High is the sweet spot for my setup. It's as good as NNEDI3 on all but the poorest quality sources. NGU Very High is too much, though, and gives me that "processed" look I mentioned before. In all cases, I'm superscaling, then downscaling to 1920x1080. This is using a GTX1060.

For the poor sources, though, NNEDI3 does a better job. Maybe a few more tweaks are in order, but I'm almost ready to kiss NNEDI3 goodbye.
Can you post some (unscaled) test images where you like NNEDI3 better than NGU pixart?

I have a strange new issue since I installed the most recent windows updates (win10 x64):
Whenever I switch to fullscreen mode (be it exclusive or not), the player suddenly freezes and starts consuming loads and loads of memory (RAM, not VRAM), till either the OS freezes up due to OOM.

I am running Win10 Pro x64 with 8GB of RAM (2GB of it as dedicated VRAM) with the latest madVR version and driver for the AMD A10-7850K APU.
It seems to occur for some win10 AMD users, it's a driver bug. The usual "solution" is to reduce the number of pre-presented frames to a lower number. I think 6 frames usually worked, or maybe 4, I don't recall right now.

I'm against it. SXBR + SR3 still looks better than any NGU for me overall (more universal source wise) *and* is faster than anything above "Low".
Are you talking standard NGU or the test build with the new "NGU pixart" algorithm? In the latter case, have you compared SXBR+SR with NGUpixart+SR or to straight NGUpixart without SR? I don't see how SXBR+SR could be faster than NGU medium without SR.

Can you post a test frame (BMP or PNG) of the unscaled source, for which you prefer SXBR+SR over NGU (pixart)?

Is it possibile to add bilinear scaling done by shaders ?not the same by gpu texture unit,this last one should work with 8 bit precision only
GPU texture unit supports any bitdepth, so doing bilinear *up*scaling via shaders has no purpose. Bilinear *down*scaling via shaders produces better results for scaling factors bigger than 2.0x, though. But I don't think I'm doing to add an option for that because I don't expect Bilinear downscaling via shaders to be noticeably faster than e.g. Mitchell (without AR) downscaling. And Mitchell should look better than Bilinear.

speaking of pixart, when is the next official update for madVR? since it seems like pixart is already ready to go.
I don't know, still trying different things.

also, can we have this part of the image scaler be manually defined like this?
and what would the result be if we mixed up different scaling algorithms in luma/chroma image scaling?
The whole scaling settings will be revisited soon, don't know the details yet.

In MadVR settings I try to input the Display modes fit for my videos (some at 24fps, some other at 25, a very few at 30).
As long as I input just "4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p24" I don't have problems: according to the video, it adapts the refresh rate of my tv (a Panasonic 4K led). Only thing, as one might expect, stuttering for the few videos at 30fps.
If I input as well the 30, with the following logic: "4096x2160p30, 4096x2160p25, 4096x2160p24", the referesh rate goes to 30 also for the 25fps videos....and I don't understand why.
The video card is a Radeon 7700, supporting through HDMI the 4k res at 24hz, at 25 and at 30 too.
Some suggestions:

1) Please use display modes in the physical resolution of your TV, if possible, to avoid extra processing steps (which might harm image quality) in your TV. If your TV is really 4096x2160, then that's the right mode to use. But if your TV is actually 3840x2160, then please configure your HTPC to output 3840x2160 instead.

2) Make extra sure that all the refresh rates you enter into the madVR modes list are actually available, otherwise strange things may happen.

3) If things still react weird, you can upload a debug log and I'll see what's going on.

You might need another variation of NGU to deal with this sort of content, I think slight alterations might not be enough as NGU and NGU pix look similar to me, and I can't imagine tweaks will be enough..
Here's (http://i.imgur.com/kBHrpW7.png) an image I'll put forward for your NGU pix variant, easy enough for me to find more which work well with NNEDI3 if you want anything.
Can you mark areas in this image where you prefer NNEDI3? With your Anime image, I could see the difference, with this image I'm struggling a bit.

In all your tests, are you comparing just NGU pixart "very high"? Or have you also tested the lower speed variants? They don't seem to produce the same misinterpretations as "very high" sometimes does.

[TheShadowRunner]

Interesting. Does this happen with every DVD, or just with some? How can I reproduce this problem exactly (step-by-step guide)?
Yes it happens with all DVDs I could try (10+).
To reproduce: just start any dvd playback, on the menu (if there's one) select the main movie or some extra. And then just seek during playback or jump to a random position : the player instantly becomes unresponsive (interestingly the bug doesn't happen when going from one chapter to another).

[Damien147]

Just have to ask even if it's stupid.

My TV{(Samsung Ku6000 (or else ku6300)}is 60hz and says in the manual that it supports film mode only for 1080i in HDMI.
In windows display adapter properties supported screen refresh rates are:24,25,29,30,50,59,60 hz.
I played with display modes in Madvr and it seems that 24p,25p,30p,50p is activated and displayed in 4096x2160(Madvr and TV report it).
If ''bypasses'' is the proper word do you guys think that what I am doing might cause problem/damage to the display?
I mean I haven't found support for that officially.

----------

If everything's ok,24p(24hz) in 23.976 fps gives me 1 frame repeat every 42 seconds and no dropped frames in OSD.Does this look good?Is there room for improvement?23hz is not an option and no reclock because I'm 64bit.

[Shiandow]

GPU texture unit supports any bitdepth, so doing bilinear *up*scaling via shaders has no purpose. Bilinear *down*scaling via shaders produces better results for scaling factors bigger than 2.0x, though. But I don't think I'm doing to add an option for that because I don't expect Bilinear downscaling via shaders to be noticeably faster than e.g. Mitchell (without AR) downscaling. And Mitchell should look better than Bilinear.

Not that it's particularly important, but proper bilinear downscaling (i.e. a box filter) gives better results than bilinear interpolation for pretty much any scaling factor other than 2 (when they're equivalent).

[ryrynz]

Can you mark areas in this image where you prefer NNEDI3? With your Anime image, I could see the difference, with this image I'm struggling a bit.

In all your tests, are you comparing just NGU pixart "very high"? Or have you also tested the lower speed variants? They don't seem to produce the same misinterpretations as "very high" sometimes does.

I chose this image because the entire image is that much softer, there's no area in particular that NGU pix really fails here it just doesn't quite pop like NNEDI3 does. It's a good indicator of how sharp I believe this new variant would have to be.

There is one area where it has been a bit aggressive and I've marked it here (http://i.imgur.com/l7LHoUt.png). There's a soft smudge that NGU pix removes that NNEDI3 keeps and also the curve on the button gets pulled back to the left. I use NGU pix very high for comparison. High definitely looks better in the marked area, it's less aggressive so I prefer it for that reason but it's sharpness is quite low. Anyway you're right the video I linked you before is a much better test of low res animated content.. only NGU very high does okay with the lines (everything else loses to NNEDI3 32 neurons) but suffers from the line issues I've mentioned previously.

[Bloodred]

Thanks, this image is quite helpful. Do you have some more images like this, which show NGU stumbling? If so, that might help improving NGU (non-pixart). I only need the unscaled image.
I've tried to find a few more scenes, though I think the one I first posted is one of the best examples, as in the image itself isn't of very poor quality and also showcases the issue. I've zipped a few images, just the unscaled versions:
NGU problematic scenes (http://filehorst.de/d/bqckjjvs)
Out of those images, the Slayers frame is by far the worst, but it's also very low quality, so it's to be expected.

One thing I've noticed is that the smudged/wavy look is most apparent when doing NGU image quadrupling, it's not much of an issue otherwise, so this particular usecase I ran into (upscaling 480p > 2160p) is what makes it apparent. Some of those shots aren't all too bad, but if you switch back and forth between NNEDI3 and NGU quadrupling it's easily visible. It's also most apparent around areas with a lot of black outlines, but it does happen in colored areas too.

I've used NGU vhigh across the board when looking for these scenes, with Jinc AR to upscale all the way to 2160p and deband set to Low.

Let me know if you could use even more images, I don't have a lot of low-res sources, but I'll try to look for more scenes where the issues are visible if you need more stuff to test with.

[jkauff]

Can you post some (unscaled) test images where you like NNEDI3 better than NGU pixart?
I take it all back. I took several screenshots from the worst SD sources I could find, and NGU pixart High did a better job on every set (using NNEDI3 128 neurons and 256 neurons both).

I'm sold. :)

[MS-DOS]

Are you talking standard NGU or the test build with the new "NGU pixart" algorithm? In the latter case, have you compared SXBR+SR with NGUpixart+SR or to straight NGUpixart without SR? I don't see how SXBR+SR could be faster than NGU medium without SR.

Both. SXBR+SR1 (mistake, sorry) against straight NGU. I didn't test NGU with SR, because apart from you not recommending it it's also very slow. Here's what I just got:

SXBR+SR = 4.92ms
NGU Med = 5.41ms

Nevermind it though, I probably shouldn't mention it in the first place as that's an issue with the AMD driver + RX 480 and not with NGU.

Can you post a test frame (BMP or PNG) of the unscaled source, for which you prefer SXBR+SR over NGU (pixart)?

I currently don't have a good video frame example to post, so here's a couple of images: 1 (http://i5.imageban.ru/out/2017/02/15/a1f1e80a44faab145592b6b3ceb97c93.png) 2 (http://i4.imageban.ru/out/2017/02/15/45e9b0ab63bd755baab259b9af6a00d1.png). Double the first one and quadruple the second. With pixart, the pinned flag (or whatever it's called) on the first one looks aliased, while with the second one the whole image turns into an artificial mess with aliased edges.
With real life content I often need to scale bad quality sources with compression artifacts. Guess what NGU does? It enhances (sharpens) the quality of the artifacts while leaving the actual data visually almost untouched compared to SXBR+SR. Sometimes it produces aliasing, sometimes it just looks too artificial to me, and sometimes it looks better than SXBR+SR. Therefore it's not a universal upscaler that I would use for everything.

[leeperry]

^ Fully agreed, NGU doesn't quite get through noisy/low-res sources as NNEDI3 & sxbr do.....I just hope sxbr won't be ditched and I might soon have to upgrade to a rx 480 as I'll prolly get a 4K TV so I'd rather have more options than less.

[Anima123]

As I remembered, Madshi has mentioned an idea of remove movie-like spots from the original picture, upscaling the cleaned picture then add the upscalied spots back to the upscaled cleaned picture. I wonder if this idea can be extended to something else, like noise or other effects?

[Arm3nian]

I did some testing using a normal quality source, I don't know how it was encoded as I just found it on youtube but it's obviously not bluray quality but it's not complete crap either. I think it's useful to have comparisons when the sources aren't on either extremes. It's pretty much just geometrical shapes so meh, madshi has probably done his own testing.

I compare regular NGU, nnedi3, and superxbr. I was going to test every combination, but realized 15min in that i'd be there until tomorrow. The pictures are mostly the highest levels you can select on each algo. nnedi3 and super-xbr are quadrupled - it makes quite a difference on nnedi3, but not that much on super-xbr. NGU levels for chroma make quite a difference. nnedi3 levels not really. NGU luma levels make even more of a difference, low to medium is quite the upgrade.

I tried pixart after, and it looks the worst for luma. However, it looks very similar to nnedi3 for chroma.

http://imgur.com/a/h2Imd

[StinDaWg]

madshi, I am still getting constant black screen lockups when existing/closing a video, that require a reboot of the computer. I have tried every combination I can think of. D3D9, D3D11, FSE and windowed, DontRenderAfterStop folder with and without.
It even happens if you disable fullscreen exclusive mode!?!? That seems very weird. Which OS and GPU are you using? If it's NVidia or Intel, have you tried Overlay mode? Otherwise you could also try reducing the number of pre-presented frames ("present in advance"), or turning pre-present off completely.

Have you tried different GPU driver versions? This is most likely a GPU driver bug.
Windows 10. HD7770. I've used different drivers. I have had this problem on and off for years honestly. It effects both exclusive and windowed and all resolutions/refresh rate.

Currently I am using KeepLastFrameOnStop folder "hack" and it hasn't locked up for 2 days. I also checked "use a separate device for presentation" and "use a separate device for dxva processing".

I'll keep doing that and if it ends up locking up again I know I can move on and try something else (lowering present in advance as you suggested).

It really sucks but if there is no fix then I guess I'll just deal with it for better PQ.

[madshi]

Yes it happens with all DVDs I could try (10+).
To reproduce: just start any dvd playback, on the menu (if there's one) select the main movie or some extra. And then just seek during playback or jump to a random position : the player instantly becomes unresponsive (interestingly the bug doesn't happen when going from one chapter to another).
I've just tried with a ripped DVD sample a user sent me months ago, and I don't get any freeze here while seeking during playback.

Can you maybe create another sample for me with which I could reproduce the problem? Doesn't have to be a full 4-8GB DVD, you can probably cut the movie VOB down to a small size, so that maybe just the first 2 minutes or so are playable.

My TV{(Samsung Ku6000 (or else ku6300)}is 60hz and says in the manual that it supports film mode only for 1080i in HDMI.
In windows display adapter properties supported screen refresh rates are:24,25,29,30,50,59,60 hz.
I played with display modes in Madvr and it seems that 24p,25p,30p,50p is activated and displayed in 4096x2160(Madvr and TV report it).
If ''bypasses'' is the proper word do you guys think that what I am doing might cause problem/damage to the display?
I mean I haven't found support for that officially.
I don't understand your question. You're asking if what you're doing might cause problems, but you don't fully describe what you're doing exactly, and why you think that could cause problems.

So my last post (with the dozens of replies in it) to see some recommendations I made there for another Samsung 4K display user.

Not that it's particularly important, but proper bilinear downscaling (i.e. a box filter) gives better results than bilinear interpolation for pretty much any scaling factor other than 2 (when they're equivalent).
Are you sure? I thought texture units would do proper bilinear downscaling for down scaling factors up to 2.0x? What are they doing if not proper bilinear downscaling?

you're right the video I linked you before is a much better test of low res animated content.. only NGU very high does okay with the lines (everything else loses to NNEDI3 32 neurons) but suffers from the line issues I've mentioned previously.
In which way do NGU pixart low/medium lose to NNEDI3-32? More aliasing? Or other issues? In my tests NGU pixart medium seemed to have noticeably less aliasing than NNEDI3-16, at the very least. How do you like NGU pixart low/medium compared to NNEDI3-16? Both are faster than NNEDI3-16, so that's the fairest comparison, I would say.

I've tried to find a few more scenes, though I think the one I first posted is one of the best examples, as in the image itself isn't of very poor quality and also showcases the issue. I've zipped a few images, just the unscaled versions:
NGU problematic scenes (http://filehorst.de/d/bqckjjvs)
Out of those images, the Slayers frame is by far the worst, but it's also very low quality, so it's to be expected.

One thing I've noticed is that the smudged/wavy look is most apparent when doing NGU image quadrupling, it's not much of an issue otherwise, so this particular usecase I ran into (upscaling 480p > 2160p) is what makes it apparent. Some of those shots aren't all too bad, but if you switch back and forth between NNEDI3 and NGU quadrupling it's easily visible. It's also most apparent around areas with a lot of black outlines, but it does happen in colored areas too.

I've used NGU vhigh across the board when looking for these scenes, with Jinc AR to upscale all the way to 2160p and deband set to Low.

Let me know if you could use even more images, I don't have a lot of low-res sources, but I'll try to look for more scenes where the issues are visible if you need more stuff to test with.
Thanks, I'll have a look at the images when I find some time!

I take it all back. I took several screenshots from the worst SD sources I could find, and NGU pixart High did a better job on every set (using NNEDI3 128 neurons and 256 neurons both).

I'm sold. :)
:)

Both. SXBR+SR1 (mistake, sorry) against straight NGU. I didn't test NGU with SR, because apart from you not recommending it it's also very slow. Here's what I just got:

SXBR+SR = 4.92ms
NGU Med = 5.41ms

Nevermind it though, I probably shouldn't mention it in the first place as that's an issue with the AMD driver + RX 480 and not with NGU.
Ah, SR1 instead of SR3, and Polaris. That explains the speed stuff, of course.

I currently don't have a good video frame example to post, so here's a couple of images: 1 (http://i5.imageban.ru/out/2017/02/15/a1f1e80a44faab145592b6b3ceb97c93.png) 2 (http://i4.imageban.ru/out/2017/02/15/45e9b0ab63bd755baab259b9af6a00d1.png). Double the first one and quadruple the second. With pixart, the pinned flag (or whatever it's called) on the first one looks aliased, while with the second one the whole image turns into an artificial mess with aliased edges.
Thanks, will have a look later.

With real life content I often need to scale bad quality sources with compression artifacts. Guess what NGU does? It enhances (sharpens) the quality of the artifacts while leaving the actual data visually almost untouched compared to SXBR+SR. Sometimes it produces aliasing, sometimes it just looks too artificial to me, and sometimes it looks better than SXBR+SR. Therefore it's not a universal upscaler that I would use for everything.
Well, standard NGU does not do good with compression artifacts, that's true. NGU pixart should handle such sources much better, though. And of course you can also apply SR with NGU pixart, but obviously that costs more GPU power.

^ Fully agreed, NGU doesn't quite get through noisy/low-res sources as NNEDI3 & sxbr do.....
You seem to have missed NGU pixart.

As I remembered, Madshi has mentioned an idea of remove movie-like spots from the original picture, upscaling the cleaned picture then add the upscalied spots back to the upscaled cleaned picture.
Huh? I'm not sure what you mean.

I did some testing using a normal quality source, I don't know how it was encoded as I just found it on youtube but it's obviously not bluray quality but it's not complete crap either. I think it's useful to have comparisons when the sources aren't on either extremes. It's pretty much just geometrical shapes so meh, madshi has probably done his own testing.

I compare regular NGU, nnedi3, and superxbr. I was going to test every combination, but realized 15min in that i'd be there until tomorrow. The pictures are mostly the highest levels you can select on each algo. nnedi3 and super-xbr are quadrupled - it makes quite a difference on nnedi3, but not that much on super-xbr. NGU levels for chroma make quite a difference. nnedi3 levels not really. NGU luma levels make even more of a difference, low to medium is quite the upgrade.

I tried pixart after, and it looks the worst for luma. However, it looks very similar to nnedi3 for chroma.

http://imgur.com/a/h2Imd
So what are your conclusions? I think real world content is more important than geometric figures, though.

[madshi]

Windows 10. HD7770. I've used different drivers. I have had this problem on and off for years honestly. It effects both exclusive and windowed and all resolutions/refresh rate.

Currently I am using KeepLastFrameOnStop folder "hack" and it hasn't locked up for 2 days. I also checked "use a separate device for presentation" and "use a separate device for dxva processing".

I'll keep doing that and if it ends up locking up again I know I can move on and try something else (lowering present in advance as you suggested).

It really sucks but if there is no fix then I guess I'll just deal with it for better PQ.
Well, what can I say? I don't have this issue, and most other users don't seem to have it, either. So I'm not completely sure why it occurs for you. I'd like to blame Windows 10, but if you had it for years, that can't be it, obviously.

[StinDaWg]

Well, what can I say? I don't have this issue, and most other users don't seem to have it, either. So I'm not completely sure why it occurs for you. I'd like to blame Windows 10, but if you had it for years, that can't be it, obviously.
Do you hit the close button/backspace to end a video, or do you exit out of fullscreen first and then close the video program? What do you use? MPC-HC?

Just want to make sure we are on the same page here, but obviously what I am referring to happens on the former. I can exit out of fullscreen 1st and then close the player without issue, it's only when closing from fullscreen that it sometimes locks up.

Also I tried MPC-BE and same thing happened, so it eliminates the issue as being player specific.

[Shiandow]

Are you sure? I thought texture units would do proper bilinear downscaling for down scaling factors up to 2.0x? What are they doing if not proper bilinear downscaling?

The GPU just interpolates, it has no clue if it's downscaling or not, this means it uses at most 2 pixels in each direction to calculate the interpolated value (so 4 in total). Now even the narrowest possible kernel for downscaling, a box filter, can use as many as 9 input pixels to calculate a single output pixel. This is because any pixel larger than the original pixel can overlap up to 9 of the original pixels. Now it's debatable what the proper downscaling analogue of bilinear interpolation is, but it's not just bilinear interpolation, not even for scaling factors <2.

[madshi]

Do you hit the close button/backspace to end a video, or do you exit out of fullscreen first and then close the video program? What do you use? MPC-HC?

Just want to make sure we are on the same page here, but obviously what I am referring to happens on the former. I can exit out of fullscreen 1st and then close the player without issue, it's only when closing from fullscreen that it sometimes locks up.

Also I tried MPC-BE and same thing happened, so it eliminates the issue as being player specific.
I'm using a custom keyboard shortcut to close MPC-HC while it's in FSE mode. Works fine here.

MPC-HC and MPC-BE are closely related. You'd need to test a totally different player to make sure it's really not media player specific.

The GPU just interpolates, it has no clue if it's downscaling or not, this means it uses at most 2 pixels in each direction to calculate the interpolated value (so 4 in total). Now even the narrowest possible kernel for downscaling, a box filter, can use as many as 9 input pixels to calculate a single output pixel. This is because any pixel larger than the original pixel can overlap up to 9 of the original pixels. Now it's debatable what the proper downscaling analogue of bilinear interpolation is, but it's not just bilinear interpolation, not even for scaling factors <2.
You're right, of course, thanks.

[leeperry]

You seem to have missed NGU pixart.
The thing is that I like the slight EE sxbr gives, especially in combination with SR as they look amazing together on fast-motion 720p movies IME and NGU is slower than usual on AMD 480's apparently? It also isn't SR-friendly due to excessive bloating and we need horse-power for 2160p upscaling you know.

Anyway, please don't leave us NGU as the only option because as much as we don't miss NEDI I can certainly see some NNEDI3/sxbr lovers and again options are good, we got half a dozen linear scalers to pick from at every step so what's the big deal with three doublers :(

[StinDaWg]

I'm using a custom keyboard shortcut to close MPC-HC while it's in FSE mode. Works fine here.
What's your shortcut? And is it set to "close" or "exit"?

I could try it and see if it makes any difference.

[madshi]

I can certainly see some NNEDI3/sxbr lovers
You're missing the mark. NGU pixart is aimed at replacing NNEDI3 1:1. The goal is to achieve the same look and quality at faster speed. Whether or not NGU pixart is there just yet is a matter of discussion. But once it is, why would anyone use an algorithm that doesn't look better, is slower and requires OpenCL with its unstable drivers?

This is about NNEDI3, though. super-xbr clearly has a different look to it and NGU pixart is not meant to reproduce the super-xbr look. However, most users probably consider NNEDI3 to have better image quality than super-xbr. So once something is available at equal or higher speed than super-xbr with better image quality, arguments for keeping super-xbr might be hard to find. But again, maybe we're not there just yet.

What's your shortcut? And is it set to "close" or "exit"?

I could try it and see if it makes any difference.
I'm using Ctrl+C, but not to close but to exit. By default Ctrl+C closes. I've changed it to exit instead.

[Damien147]

I

I don't understand your question. You're asking if what you're doing might cause problems, but you don't fully describe what you're doing exactly, and why you think that could cause problems.

So my last post (with the dozens of replies in it) to see some recommendations I made there for another Samsung 4K display user.



I followed these recommendations already.
From TV what I get officially is film mode ONLY for 1080i in HDMI,there's no mention for general 24p support or anything.Everything's supposed to play at 60hz and film mode is greyed out.
By playing with Madvrs display modes ''it bypasses'' what I explained and I have 24fps at 24hz, 25fps at 25hz and beyond.... in 4096x2160 resolution with everything I put.
There's no official support for that but it seems to work.
Here what Madvrs OSD reports
http://imgur.com/a/gpakS

and here what TV reports
http://imgur.com/a/AzCMC

It's not supposed to happen officially but it happens and I'd like to keep it like that.The thing is,am I gonna have a problem/damage the display in the long run for some reason?

[madshi]

I followed these recommendations already.
No, I don't think you did. Or is 4096x2160 the physical resolution of your display? I doubt it. Most 4K displays are 3840x2160 and not 4096x2160. So you probably did not follow my recommendation to use the physical resolution of your display. Or am I wrong?

The thing is,am I gonna have a problem/damage the display in the long run for some reason?
I don't think it's easy or even possible to damage digital displays by sending unusual resolutions/refresh rates. If your TV doesn't like the signal you're sending, it will not sync. If it syncs, there should be no problem.

[huhn]

"all" UHD TV support an input of 4096x2160 and it is not the native resolution only projector have this resolution.

he send 4096x2160 the TV is downscaling it to 3840x2160 by using the fit to screen option without this option it is cropping the image (which is the correct way to handle it unlike fit to screen.)

of cause 4096x2160 is supported but it is suboptimal to say it very friendly.

[Damien147]

No, I don't think you did. Or is 4096x2160 the physical resolution of your display? I doubt it. Most 4K displays are 3840x2160 and not 4096x2160. So you probably did not follow my recommendation to use the physical resolution of your display. Or am I wrong?

It is 4096x2160.


I don't think it's easy or even possible to damage digital displays by sending unusual resolutions/refresh rates. If your TV doesn't like the signal you're sending, it will not sync. If it syncs, there should be no problem.

Thank you and your great software then.:)

"all" UHD TV support an input of 4096x2160 and it is not the native resolution only projector have this resolution.

he send 4096x2160 the TV is downscaling it to 3840x2160 by using the fit to screen option without this option it is cropping the image (which is the correct way to handle it unlike fit to screen.)

of cause 4096x2160 is supported but it is suboptimal to say it very friendly.

If I put 2160p24 for example in display modes with an 3840x2160 movie what you say happens,it downscales in 3840x2160 and TV reports it.If I put 4096x2160p24 for the same movie it stays 4096x2160.
Fit to screen is 1:1 pixel mapping.

[madshi]

It is 4096x2160.
Oh, that surprises me. Are you sure? Which TV is this exactly? I was only aware of projectors (Sony, JVC) with 4096 wide panels.

[StinDaWg]

I'm using Ctrl+C, but not to close but to exit. By default Ctrl+C closes. I've changed it to exit instead.
OK, I set exit to F4, which is what my media center remote is mapped to the close button.

Before "close' was mapped to "close", now it's mapped to "exit". We'll see if that makes any difference as they seem to both do the same thing.

[huhn]

If I put 2160p24 for example in display modes with an 3840x2160 movie what you say happens,it downscales in 3840x2160 and TV reports it.If I put 4096x2160p24 for the same movie it stays 4096x2160.
Fit to screen is 1:1 pixel mapping.

fit to screen is the opposed of 1:1 pixel mapping.

select the resolution 2048x1536 and you may understand it.

[Damien147]

Oh, that surprises me. Are you sure? Which TV is this exactly? I was only aware of projectors (Sony, JVC) with 4096 wide panels.

Samsung KU6000 or else KU6300.

[strumf666]

http://www.samsung.com/uk/tv/KU6000/

"Resolution
3,840 × 2,160"

[Damien147]

fit to screen is the opposed of 1:1 pixel mapping.

select the resolution 2048x1536 and you may understand it.

Fit to screen or Screen Fit is what samsung calls 1:1 pixel mapping.
http://www.samsung.com/in/support/skp/faq/1050349

[huhn]

not on new screens: http://www.samsung.com/hk_en/support/skp/faq/1049648

the screen resolution is 3840x2160 if you like it or not and 3840x2160 is the correct UHD resolution.

[Prinz]

I bought a new card Nvidia 1060 6GB, the card was defective (windows restored driver regularly), I RMA'd the card and now got it back. Now that I could test the card i have a lot of issues:

1. A lot of frame drops/repeats when using the HDMI audio device per Direct Sound. Using the HDMI audio device without Direct Sound results in just normal repeats/drops because of not exact Hz of the TV to the video, but in this mode only some Audio Formats work (DTS + HD don't work = AVR switches all the time the decoding on/off).

2. Even stranger: When starting playback in MadVR the system clock gets slow (about 10 seconds too slow per minute). Works perfectly without.

Got my card back from repair, they did a bios update (none available on internet) and all problems are gone. Card and System works fine now. Just in case someone else has strange problems like this with a new card.

[madshi]

http://www.samsung.com/uk/tv/KU6000/

"Resolution
3,840 × 2,160"
not on new screens: http://www.samsung.com/hk_en/support/skp/faq/1049648

the screen resolution is 3840x2160 if you like it or not and 3840x2160 is the correct UHD resolution.
:)

Got my card back from repair, they did a bios update (none available on internet) and all problems are gone. Card and System works fine now. Just in case someone else has strange problems like this with a new card.
Glad to hear the problems are gone, and were not caused by madVR.

[Damien147]

not on new screens: http://www.samsung.com/hk_en/support/skp/faq/1049648

the screen resolution is 3840x2160 if you like it or not and 3840x2160 is the correct UHD resolution.



That's how my menu is.It's an 2016 model.
Look for yourself.


Fit to screen off
Notice OSD on the left side http://imgur.com/a/XiQta

Fit to screen on
Notice OSD on the left side again.Also 4096x2160 is 1.90:1,right?Notice the black bar on the side and movies resolution.http://imgur.com/a/FzCMJ


:)



http://imgur.com/a/9qd9Z

http://imgur.com/a/sRlIY

http://imgur.com/a/0Dy0m

:) back to you :p

[madshi]

@Damien, does Windows offer you to output 3840x2160? If so, try switching between 3840x2160 and 4096x2160 and check how the Windows desktop looks like. Are there black borders in either case, or some part of the desktop cut off? And which way are the fonts sharper?

[Damien147]

Yes,it offers 3840x2160.For example if I put 3840x2160 with browser fullscreen there are black borders on the sides.If I put 4096x2160 everything works as intended and is fullscreen witn no borders.

[madshi]

Ok, that does sound like a native res of 4096x2160. Which is very weird, though, because it's the first time I hear of a consumer flat panel display with 4096x2160 resolution, and furthermore the Samsung website clearly states it's 3840x2160. However, often TVs use different panels from different manufacturers (unlikely for Samsung, though), depending on which size your TV is. E.g. some Sony models use an IPS screen for 42" and a PVA screen for 55" or something like that. Maybe for some reason your panel is really 4096x2160, because of the panel size you're using, but it truely is weird.

Fonts are perfectly sharp regardless of whether you send 3840x2160 or 4096x2160, right?

[Damien147]

Everything seems to work as intended as I said.

Here is your OSD with an 4096x2160 video
http://imgur.com/a/WM6oC

[huhn]

That's how my menu is.It's an 2016 model.
Look for yourself.


Fit to screen off
Notice OSD on the left side http://imgur.com/a/XiQta

Fit to screen on
Notice OSD on the left side again.Also 4096x2160 is 1.90:1,right?Notice the black bar on the side and movies resolution.http://imgur.com/a/FzCMJ

now do the same with fit screen of and 3840x2160

the file you are using here isn't 3840x2160. just play a 16/9 blu ray.

without fit to screen it is cropping the image to 3840x2160.
don't you think it is strange that the TV is cropping left and right but not top and bottom without fit to screen when the actual screen size is 4096x2160?

there is no screenshot with 3840x2160 as an input signal.
and a small guess a AMD card without HDMI 2.0?

[Damien147]

the file you are using here isn't 3840x2160. just play a 16/9 blu ray.

without fit to screen it is cropping the image to 3840x2160.
don't you think it is strange that the TV is cropping left and right but not top and bottom without fit to screen when the actual screen size is 4096x2160?

there is no screenshot with 3840x2160 as an input signal.
and a small guess a AMD card without HDMI 2.0?

Without fit to screen it ''streches'' to 16:9 because picture size is at 16:9 standard.With fit to screen on and 16/9 blu ray I get black bars on the sides because screen is 1.90:1.

Here is a screenshot with 3840x2160 movie.http://imgur.com/a/zGiaC
You see the black bar on the side?
Here's one with 4096x2160 http://imgur.com/a/WM6oC

Card is rx470 with HDMI 2.0b support.TV and hdmi cable supports 2.0a.

[huhn]

Here is a screenshot with 3840x2160 movie.http://imgur.com/a/zGiaC
You see the black bar on the side?

yes i see them and i see that the OSD is on the correct position and i see that the player tells madVR to move the file 128 pixel to the right.

try a different player.
the second one is useless there is nothing to see because it is black.


ok because you are using an AMD card.

when switching to 3840x2160 does your TV report 3840x2160 or is it still reporting 4096x2160?

[madshi]

One hint is that Windows itself says 4096x2160 is "recommended". That usually means that the display's EDID block lists that resolution as its physical resolution. So right now I think it really seems to be a 4096x2160 display, as weird as it seems.

[Damien147]

yes i see them and i see that the OSD is on the correct position and i see that the player tells madVR to move the file 128 pixel to the right.

try a different player.
the second one is useless there is nothing to see because it is black.

It doesn't change the point but here you are http://imgur.com/a/CYdYf

It speaks by itself.


ok because you are using an AMD card.

when switching to 3840x2160 does your TV report 3840x2160 or is it still reporting 4096x2160?

If resolution changes happen TV reports it.
Look:

3840x2160
http://imgur.com/a/MIwJJ

4096x2160
http://imgur.com/a/KNIJA

[TheShadowRunner]

I've just tried with a ripped DVD sample a user sent me months ago, and I don't get any freeze here while seeking during playback.

Can you maybe create another sample for me with which I could reproduce the problem? Doesn't have to be a full 4-8GB DVD, you can probably cut the movie VOB down to a small size, so that maybe just the first 2 minutes or so are playable.
madshi, I'm talking about physical discs! Also it may very well be a WinXP-only bug :S

[Ver Greeneyes]

FWIW, trying to connect my old laptop to our 4k LG TV I could only get a sharp image by putting it on 1360x768, rather than 1280x720 (or 1920x1080). On my new laptop, which has HDMI 2.0, both 1080p and 2160p work fine. I don't know if that has any relation with the strangeness Damien147 is seeing (since my old laptop didn't even support 4k output at all), but maybe the PC and the TV don't quite agree on how to interpret the signal being sent.

[madshi]

madshi, I'm talking about physical discs! Also it may very well be a WinXP-only bug :S
I don't have any XP PCs, anymore, sadly! I suppose I can dig out some DVD to test physical playback, but I think if it was really a problem, more users would have reported the problem, no? So XP seems like the most likely explanation. Have you thought about upgrading to Windows 8.1? It's a far better media playback OS compared to XP, and resource usage isn't much higher than XP, either, I think.

[huhn]

One hint is that Windows itself says 4096x2160 is "recommended". That usually means that the display's EDID block lists that resolution as its physical resolution. So right now I think it really seems to be a 4096x2160 display, as weird as it seems.

the fact that my the display is cropping the image left and right and is fine with 3840x2160 not. everything is done correctly at the display side : http://imgur.com/a/zGiaC the OSD is showing this clearly.

i still don't get why madVR is rendering the image to the right and that by 128p. but this has nothing todo with any display.

my RX 480 was doing the same with 4096x2160.

[madshi]

the fact that my the display is cropping the image left and right and is fine with 3840x2160 not. everything is done correctly at the display side : http://imgur.com/a/zGiaC the OSD is showing this clearly.

i still don't get why madVR is rendering the image to the right and that by 128p. but this has nothing todo with any display.

my RX 480 was doing the same with 4096x2160.
madVR is correctly drawing the 3840x2160 image into the 4096x2160 output mode. 4096-3840 = 256. So there must be black bars with a size of 128 pixels left and right of the active video area.

[huhn]

well i asked him for a screen with a 3840x2160 content sending a 3840x2160 signal.