madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Niyawa]

@Kado and madshi
Thanks for the answers. Well, I wouldn't ask for something like that to the developers, and yes it works just fine right now. It was just a detail I wanted to know more about.

About the version 0.85.5, I tested this "Enable windowed overlay" and when I play a 8-bit video with DXVA2 enabled, (sometimes) the video start to shake (not all of it, usually half or 70-80% of the screen playing it). I have Intel HD 4500 and I'm using Windows 8 x64. I don't believe this is normal. If someone could explain to me what "exactly" this option does too, I would appreciate it, first time using it. Also, madshi, could you think of making a description for every option in madVR in the readme? If it's not asking too much of course, but there's a lot of things included in there that usually at least half most of beginners don't understand the meaning and it's point. For example, in this "faq" you would put a brief explanation in 1-2 lines maybe about what is the scaling algorithms, backbuffers and flush, how they work or how they affect playback.

Edit: Seems like this only happens with MPC-HC. I tried with PotPlayer but couldn't reproduce the problem there. I'm using MPC-HC Lite 1.6.6.6373.

[crotecun]

Yep, that madVR builds works and it works also with EVR half floating point processing (maybe a little worse).
With madVR I don't get any dropped frames after lowering queues in windowed mode.
But unfortunately, in FSE I get dropped frames, present queue sometimes gets emtpy.

Btw: I figured out why FSE wasn't working at all: It seems it didn't like 16 frames presented in advance, with lower values like 4 or 8 this doesn't happen. Then there are just those frame drops.



Ah, that's interesting. I'm glad to hear that madVR seems to run just as fast as EVR with your ultra-slow GPU, when switching EVR to half-way decent quality settings. That does confirm that madVR can work with very low-power GPU hardware, too.

Which settings did he change to get it running nicely on an AMD E-350? I have given up on that graphics chip for madvr, I'm curious what could be done with the new build.

[6233638]

The main purpose of the 2x and 3x speed improvements is the upcoming UltraHD (4k) displays. Now with v0.85.5 you can upscale Blu-Ray to UltraHD with significantly lower GPU usage, as long as you use exactly 2x upscaling. Also 720p -> UltraHD happens to be exactly 3x upscaling, so that's why I added some dedicated 3x pixel shaders, too.Sounds great!

(1) "perform deinterlacing in separate thread". This was enabled in earlier madVR builds by default. It's now disabled by default in v0.85.5. With my AMD GPU, there's no difference. My NVidia GPU runs slightly better with this option disabled.I don't really see a difference with this on or off when using DXVA2 Copy-Back in LAV Video.

If I use DXVA2 Native though, there's a big difference: Enabled (http://www.abload.de/img/enabledm8ugy.png)
Disabled (http://www.abload.de/img/disabledgyu9w.png)Notice the queues, dropped frames, and render times.

(2) "use a separate device for presentation". This was and still is enabled by default. It used to be a good method to reduce glitches with older NVidia drivers. I'm wondering if this option is still beneficial today with both NVidia and AMD GPUs. I've been told this option can make problems for NVidia Optimus, so I'm wondering whether I should disable it by default.I'm getting much higher rendering times with this disabled, jumping from 24ms to 32ms average render times in Windowed mode with the video I tried, and 23ms to 29ms in Windowed Overlay.
In Fullscreen Exclusive mode, they jumped from 17ms to 27ms.
(3) "use a separate device for DXVA processing". This is a rather new option, introduced recently. I've got one report that it helped. So I wonder if I should enable it by default. But I guess this might also make problems with NVidia Optimus (because it's similar to (2), see above). Right now I'm wondering whether maybe I should combine options (2) and (3) into one, so that I'm either using only 1 device for everything, or 3 devices, one for rendering, one for presentation and one for DXVA processing. Thoughts?Using DXVA2 Native, this kills performance on my system using the GT610, whether the "use a separate device for presentation" option is enabled or not. (I also tried changing the "perform deinterlacing in a separate thread" option) 1080i50 is completely unplayable.

(4) "enable windowed overlay". When I originally implemented overlay, it wasn't ready for prime time yet, so I disabled this by default. But since its introduction, I have applied lots of fixes, so now it seems to work very well (only for NVidia and Intel, unfortunately). It works so well IMHO that I'm reevaluating whether I should enable this by default (not for AMD, obviously). Any thoughts on this?I really dislike not being able to grab a scaled screenshot with PrtScn when overlay is enabled. It's also a lot slower switching to fullscreen exclusive mode from windowed overlay. It's almost instantaneous switching from windowed mode if there's no refresh rate change (just flashes black for a fraction of a second) and the screen blacks out for much longer (a couple of seconds) going from windowed overlay to fullscreen exclusive, as if I had changed refresh rate.

I currently have CPU queue at 32 and GPU queue at 24 though, which may be slowing things down. (backbuffers/present queue at the default though)
Performance is slightly better, at 23ms rather than 24ms in windowed mode with the same sample, but doesn't seem worth it.

[madshi]

At the moment it seems there is no single problem for me with this version on my system. :thanks:
Boring. :D
That sounds like the perfect time to do those tests for the feedback I need... ;)

I get a black screen with any of them enabled with AMD's Switchable Graphics as well so it's not limited to Optimus.
Good to know, thanks.

With 0.85.5 I can now use DXVA native without framedrops without scaling. But only in windowed mode, in exclusive mode the render and present queue drop to 1 and 0. And the framedrops start... In windowed mode the all queues are full.
Interesting. Which GPU/OS? What happens if you disable/enable the "use a separate device for DXVA processing" and "perform deinterlacing in a separate thread"? Does that fix the problem with exclusive mode?

edit: I just noticed an issue when I disabled "use a separate device for presentation". With it enabled, my rendering times are around 8ms whereas with it disabled they are around 13ms. I am using CUVID as well as SVP. One of those could account for the difference. Not sure.

edit2: now this is odd. when I disable SVP, my rendering times go up to 17ms whereas with it enabled, i get 13ms... shouldn't a higher frame rate cause higher rendering times? I also disabled CUVID and went to software decoding and got 16ms instead of 17ms. So it's not an issue with CUVID.
The rendering times are per frame, and should be more or less independent of frame rate. Not sure exactly why your rendering times change, depends on those configuration changes you made. The bigger question would be how it affects real-life performance. E.g. you could up your scaling settings (e.g. switch to higher taps or to Jinc) to get your PC near to the max it can do. And then you could check whether changing those madVR option(s) helps or hurts.

About the version 0.85.5, I tested this "Enable windowed overlay" and when I play a 8-bit video with DXVA2 enabled, (sometimes) the video start to shake (not all of it, usually half or 70-80% of the screen playing it). I have Intel HD 4500 and I'm using Windows 8 x64. I don't believe this is normal. If someone could explain to me what "exactly" this option does too, I would appreciate it, first time using it.

Edit: Seems like this only happens with MPC-HC. I tried with PotPlayer but couldn't reproduce the problem there. I'm using MPC-HC Lite 1.6.6.6373.
Hmmmm... I'm not sure what the media player has to do with this. It shouldn't really affect overlay playback. Sounds quite weird. Are you sure that madVR is really used by both media players? (You can turn on the debug OSD with Ctrl+J to make sure).

What you're describing as "shaking video": Do you mean tearing? Tearing means that one part of the image is one frame ahead of the rest of the image all the time. Or do you mean that frames appear to be shown out of order, so that movement goes back and forth all the time?

In any case, the problem goes away if you disable the Overlay option? Are you using DXVA decoding? Maybe it helps disabling that?

Also, madshi, could you think of making a description for every option in madVR in the readme? If it's not asking too much of course, but there's a lot of things included in there that usually at least half most of beginners don't understand the meaning and it's point. For example, in this "faq" you would put a brief explanation in 1-2 lines maybe about what is the scaling algorithms, backbuffers and flush, how they work or how they affect playback.
I do plan to write a full documentation, but not right now. madVR is still not feature complete. Documentation will be done as the last step before releasing v1.0.

Which settings did he change to get it running nicely on an AMD E-350? I have given up on that graphics chip for madvr, I'm curious what could be done with the new build.
IIRC the main thing to do is to set all scaling options to Bilinear. Then you may want to turn on "use half framerate deinterlacing" and "run custom shaders in 16bit" in the "trade quality for performance" section. I guess that's it.

[madshi]

I don't really see a difference with this on or off when using DXVA2 Copy-Back in LAV Video.

If I use DXVA2 Native though, there's a big difference: Enabled (http://www.abload.de/img/enabledm8ugy.png)
Disabled (http://www.abload.de/img/disabledgyu9w.png)Notice the queues, dropped frames, and render times.
Ok, that's a really big difference. I really wonder why this option helps with your NVidia GPU, but hurts with mine. I haven't tested with DXVA decoding, though. I guess I should do that...

I'm getting much higher rendering times with this disabled, jumping from 24ms to 32ms average render times in Windowed mode with the video I tried, and 23ms to 29ms in Windowed Overlay.
In Fullscreen Exclusive mode, they jumped from 17ms to 27ms.
Ok. But do those rendering times also reflect real world? Meaning: Can you use higher scaling settings with "use a separate device for presentation" enabled?

Using DXVA2 Native, this kills performance on my system using the GT610, whether the "use a separate device for presentation" option is enabled or not. (I also tried changing the "perform deinterlacing in a separate thread" option) 1080i50 is completely unplayable.
Does this option also hurt when not using DXVA2 Native?

I really dislike not being able to grab a scaled screenshot with PrtScn when overlay is enabled. It's also a lot slower switching to fullscreen exclusive mode from windowed overlay. It's almost instantaneous switching from windowed mode if there's no refresh rate change (just flashes black for a fraction of a second) and the screen blacks out for much longer (a couple of seconds) going from windowed overlay to fullscreen exclusive, as if I had changed refresh rate.

I currently have CPU queue at 32 and GPU queue at 24 though, which may be slowing things down. (backbuffers/present queue at the default though)
Performance is slightly better, at 23ms rather than 24ms in windowed mode with the same sample, but doesn't seem worth it.
Interesting. For my old NVidia 9400, performance is *much* better in Overlay mode. Haven't checked the rendering times, but real life performance is so much better...

[ryrynz]

Madshi, Could we get dedicated code for 1.5x? 720 to 1080 is fairly common and this may help out some with fairly lowish end integrated graphics to use Jinc.
With these differences in scaling performances someone with border line graphics power may run into dropped frames when using the non hard wired code however.
That may be a good reason to allow for configurable resizers based upon tagging and input/output resolution.

[6233638]

Ok. But do those rendering times also reflect real world? Meaning: Can you use higher scaling settings with "use a separate device for presentation" enabled?Well, it means that more demanding videos are dropping frames, so I would have to lower my settings if I disabled "use a separate device for presentation".

Does this option also hurt when not using DXVA2 Native?Essentially no difference on or off when using DXVA2 Copy-Back.

Interesting. For my old NVidia 9400, performance is *much* better in Overlay mode. Haven't checked the rendering times, but real life performance is so much better...Even using Jinc 3 at a reasonably large scale factor (360p to 1080p) I'm only seeing a difference of about 1ms.

I used to see a lot of dropped frames in windowed mode for no apparent reason (low enough render times etc) but that's been fixed for a while now, so on my system there doesn't seem to be any real benefit to windowed overlay, and it brings some annoyances.

[madshi]

Madshi, Could we get dedicated code for 1.5x? 720 to 1080 is fairly common and this may help out some with fairly lowish end integrated graphics to use Jinc.
I don't think I can do a faster hardwired Jinc shader for 1.5x. I've also not been able to do a faster 3x Jinc shader. Only 2x seems possible for Jinc, due to the way Jinc resampling works. Maybe it would be possible to create 1.5x hardwired shaders for non-Jinc scaling algorithms, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort...

Well, it means that more demanding videos are dropping frames, so I would have to lower my settings if I disabled "use a separate device for presentation".

Even using Jinc 3 at a reasonably large scale factor (360p to 1080p) I'm only seeing a difference of about 1ms.
You're only looking at the rendering times, though. I'm not convinced that they're *that* reliable that just comparing those numbers will tell you everything. They are somewhat reliable when changing scaling settings with everything else being the same. But if you change other options which modify the whole way madVR works, just looking at the rendering times alone might not paint the whole picture.

I used to see a lot of dropped frames in windowed mode for no apparent reason (low enough render times etc) but that's been fixed for a while now, so on my system there doesn't seem to be any real benefit to windowed overlay, and it brings some annoyances.
It's interesting that windowed mode playback seems to work better for you now. Do you have Aero on or off?

[6233638]

You're only looking at the rendering times, though. I'm not convinced that they're *that* reliable that just comparing those numbers will tell you everything. They are somewhat reliable when changing scaling settings with everything else being the same. But if you change other options which modify the whole way madVR works, just looking at the rendering times alone might not paint the whole picture.I agree, but when it's not dropping frames or showing other issues, I don't really have anything else to go on.

It's interesting that windowed mode playback seems to work better for you now. Do you have Aero on or off?I have Aero on. It's been fine for some time now though, I don't know if it was a driver change, or something in madVR that changed. I mostly watch in Fullscreen Exclusive mode though.

[cca]

Maybe it's me, but is the half-frame rate deinterlacing on by default now? How can I restore it to full frame ?

EDIT: No it wasn't it, I needed to activate deinterlacing in a separate thread for proper results.

[ryrynz]

I agree, but when it's not dropping frames or showing other issues, I don't really have anything else to go on.

Chart GPU usage over a short period and compare, lower GPU usage should translate to faster processing.

[cyberbeing]

Until you implement a way for madVR Overlay to use the active calibrated GPU CLUT, as well as take screenshots post-resize & processing, I don't think you should even be considering it as a default.

[ikarad]

Image Downscaling
Ultra-tier: Catmull-Rom. AR enabled, Linear enabled.
High-tier: Catmull-Rom. AR enabled, Linear enabled.
Mid-tier: Catmull-Rom. AR enabled, Linear disabled.
Low-tier: Catmull-Rom. AR disabled, Linear disabled.
Lowest-tier: Bilinear.

What do you guys think? Looks pretty sweet.

Why catmull rom and not lanczos?

With catmull rom, there is more aliasing than lanczos if you see red bars.

I don't understand why catmull rom would be better than lanczos.

catmull rom
http://img15.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_937308madvr03.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=937308madvr03.jpg)

lanczos
http://img15.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_341201madvr4.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=341201madvr4.jpg)

madVR v0.85.5 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: DXVA deinterlacing: when GPU couldn't keep up, audio sync got lost
* fixed: odd source rectangles could result in "green" images (DXVA)
* fixed: display mode changer sometimes didn't work for DVDs
* slightly modified "use separate device for DXVA processing" behaviour
* changed scaling defaults once more (Bicubic75, Lanczos3, Catmull-Rom)
* disabled "perform deinterlacing in separate thread" by default
* DXVA NV12 conversion routine now uses 16bit float instead of 32bit (faster)
* up to 56% speed improvement for Jinc3 chroma upscaling
* up to 40% speed improvement for Jinc3 AR chroma upscaling
* up to 53% speed impr. for Jinc3/4 image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 47% speed impr. for Jinc3/4 AR image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 39% speed impr. for non-Jinc image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 27% speed impr. for non-Jinc AR image upscaling with 2x scaling factor
* up to 44% speed impr. for non-Jinc image upscaling with 3x scaling factor
Please note that the speed improvements only apply in very specific circumstances. E.g. the Jinc chroma upsampling speed improvement only applies to 3-taps (with or without AR). There's no improvement for Jinc4/8 chroma upscaling. And all the other improvements only apply if there's an *exact* 2x or 3x scaling factor requested by the media player. With any other scaling factor there's no improvement at all for image scaling performance. The exact scaling factors of 2x and 3x allow me to write hard wired shader code which runs more efficiently, thus the speed improvement. There are no further similar improvements for other scaling factors planned. The 3x scaling factor improvements only apply when not using AR. There's no improvement for 3x AR image upscaling.


-------

Once again I need your FEEDBACK:

I'm trying to figure out again which defaults to use for a couple of options. I'm especially interested in these:

(1) "perform deinterlacing in separate thread". This was enabled in earlier madVR builds by default. It's now disabled by default in v0.85.5. With my AMD GPU, there's no difference. My NVidia GPU runs slightly better with this option disabled.

(2) "use a separate device for presentation". This was and still is enabled by default. It used to be a good method to reduce glitches with older NVidia drivers. I'm wondering if this option is still beneficial today with both NVidia and AMD GPUs. I've been told this option can make problems for NVidia Optimus, so I'm wondering whether I should disable it by default.

(3) "use a separate device for DXVA processing". This is a rather new option, introduced recently. I've got one report that it helped. So I wonder if I should enable it by default. But I guess this might also make problems with NVidia Optimus (because it's similar to (2), see above). Right now I'm wondering whether maybe I should combine options (2) and (3) into one, so that I'm either using only 1 device for everything, or 3 devices, one for rendering, one for presentation and one for DXVA processing. Thoughts?

(4) "enable windowed overlay". When I originally implemented overlay, it wasn't ready for prime time yet, so I disabled this by default. But since its introduction, I have applied lots of fixes, so now it seems to work very well (only for NVidia and Intel, unfortunately). It works so well IMHO that I'm reevaluating whether I should enable this by default (not for AMD, obviously). Any thoughts on this?

Please check which way these options work better for you, and let me know your test results. If you can't see a difference, please let me know that, too.

Thanks!
1)In "trade qualtiy for performance", only "store custom pixel shader results in 16bit buffer insted of 32 bit buffer" is checked on.
http://img15.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_566198madvr.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=566198madvr.jpg)
Is it usefull to turn off or is better to turn off?

For the max quality other option must be turn off or tunr on?



2)In exclusive mode settings what is the interest of "present several frames in advance" option?
http://img15.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_181675madvr2.jpg (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=181675madvr2.jpg)
I must turn on or tunr off?

Thanks.

[aufkrawall]

(1) "perform deinterlacing in separate thread". This was enabled in earlier madVR builds by default. It's now disabled by default in v0.85.5. With my AMD GPU, there's no difference. My NVidia GPU runs slightly better with this option disabled.

My 670 runs slightly worse with this option disabled. :confused:
With disabled I have a less stable GPU usage. It can be lower, but there can be also spikes (~60% instead of ~50%).
That's why I think it should stay enabled by default.


(2) "use a separate device for presentation". This was and still is enabled by default. It used to be a good method to reduce glitches with older NVidia drivers. I'm wondering if this option is still beneficial today with both NVidia and AMD GPUs. I've been told this option can make problems for NVidia Optimus, so I'm wondering whether I should disable it by default.

I have no problems when it's disabled. If there are no other drawbacks, imho it can be disabled by default.


(3) "use a separate device for DXVA processing". This is a rather new option, introduced recently. I've got one report that it helped. So I wonder if I should enable it by default. But I guess this might also make problems with NVidia Optimus (because it's similar to (2), see above). Right now I'm wondering whether maybe I should combine options (2) and (3) into one, so that I'm either using only 1 device for everything, or 3 devices, one for rendering, one for presentation and one for DXVA processing. Thoughts?

This option doesn't give me any advantage, instead it raises rendering times. I think it should be disabled by default.


(4) "enable windowed overlay". When I originally implemented overlay, it wasn't ready for prime time yet, so I disabled this by default. But since its introduction, I have applied lots of fixes, so now it seems to work very well (only for NVidia and Intel, unfortunately). It works so well IMHO that I'm reevaluating whether I should enable this by default (not for AMD, obviously). Any thoughts on this?

I have no problems with this option. Maybe enable it (+ solution for more instances) by default and if it makes trouble disable it again? :D

[madshi]

I agree, but when it's not dropping frames or showing other issues, I don't really have anything else to go on.
Well, you said:

> it means that more demanding videos are dropping
> frames, so I would have to lower my settings if I
> disabled "use a separate device for presentation".

I suppose this was a guess based on the rendering time numbers reported by madVR. What you could do is to actually test whether you can find a situation where there are actually dropped frames in real life with "use a separate device for presentation" turned off while there are no frame drops with it turned on.

Using DXVA2 Native, this kills performance on my system using the GT610
Did you test all this with v0.85.5? Or did you test with v0.85.4 (or older)? The reason I'm asking is that I did a small change in v0.85.5 which affects the way "use a separate device for DXVA processing" works. So it's important to test this with v0.85.5.

EDIT: No it wasn't it, I needed to activate deinterlacing in a separate thread for proper results.
My 670 runs slightly worse with this option disabled. :confused:
With disabled I have a less stable GPU usage. It can be lower, but there can be also spikes (~60% instead of ~50%).
That's why I think it should stay enabled by default.
Ok, it seems that "perform deinterlacing in separate thread" works better for most of you guys. So now I'm actually considering going the opposite way and removing this option and turn it always on.

Until you implement a way for madVR Overlay to use the active calibrated GPU CLUT, as well as take screenshots post-resize & processing, I don't think you should even be considering it as a default.
Oh well. I'll put these two issues on my "Overlay problems" list.

Why catmull rom and not lanczos?

With catmull rom, there is more aliasing than lanczos if you see red bars.

I don't understand why catmull rom would be better than lanczos.
Do you have a sample video where Lanczos looks better than Catmull-Rom for downscaling?

Generally I agree with you that Lanczos is better for downscaling than Catmull-Rom. However, the situation is a bit different when using linear light. There Lanczos simply produces too many ringing artifacts, even with AR enabled. When not using linear light, Lanczos is probably better than Catmull-Rom, but also slower. Now the question is whether the benefit of linear light downscaling is higher or the benefit of lower aliasing with Lanczos.

1)In "trade qualtiy for performance", only "store custom pixel shader results in 16bit buffer insted of 32 bit buffer" is checked on.

Is it usefull to turn off or is better to turn off?

For the max quality other option must be turn off or tunr on?
For max quality all options in "trade quality for performance" should be off. However, the difference in quality is rather small for some of those options. So the question is how fast your GPU is. If it's plenty fast, uncheck all those options.

2)In exclusive mode settings what is the interest of "present several frames in advance" option?[/URL]
I must turn on or tunr off?
For most users having it turned on is the better solution. Leave it that way if you have no problems with it.

[mzso]

Hi!
Is there a freeware player that can play dvd-s (preferably from image file) with menu-s and all and also can use madvr? (No luck with mpc-hc and potplayer)

What about the same for blu-rays?

[pie1394]

I don't think I can do a faster hardwired Jinc shader for 1.5x. I've also not been able to do a faster 3x Jinc shader. Only 2x seems possible for Jinc, due to the way Jinc resampling works. Maybe it would be possible to create 1.5x hardwired shaders for non-Jinc scaling algorithms, but I'm not sure it's worth the effort...


I am a little bit interested the way how you deal with generic scaling ratio...
Does madVR just pre-calculate all (possible combinations of) coefficients at all pixel positions for the set ratio, and the pixel shader code just feeds them into registers according processed pixel position upon doing inner-product calculation?


With my ION (GF9300) in window mode, it is also noticed one minor situation still exists since 0.85.3 (if I don't remember it wrong...) . If MPC-BE v1.0.3.1 is terminated with Alt-F4 during playback, the red message read like dxva decoding surface failure often pops up. If the playback is paused or has ended, there is no such red text during player window closing.

My HTPC system (GTX260+) is set with full-screen-exclusive playback by default. It may be the reason why I never notice the same text on it even MPC-BE is terminated in the same way.

[iSunrise]

madshi, I really like that you optimized Jinc 3, especially for chroma. Is there anything that can be done to improve performance with Jinc 8 on chroma or luma? I know that this is still rarely used (mainly because of it´s performance), but from 6233638´s testing some pages back, it really looks very good in comparison to the other algorithms. It seems pretty useful for some SD content (where you need higher scaling factors).

I am refering to this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1606910#post1606910) post from him.

PS: For some reason, after replacing 0.85.4 with 0.85.5 (I always copy and replace all files in the madVR folder) the option "store custom pixel shader results in 16bit buffer instead of 32bit" was set, even though I am pretty sure I didn´t activate it in 0.85.4. Since I couldn´t reproduce it with replacing 0.85.4 with 0.85.5 again, maybe I accidentally activated it before.

PPS: I wish you a happy new year in advance and thanks a lot for your time and dedication developing this great renderer!

[madshi]

I am a little bit interested the way how you deal with generic scaling ratio...
Does madVR just pre-calculate all (possible combinations of) coefficients at all pixel positions for the set ratio
Yes.

With my ION (GF9300) in window mode, it is also noticed one minor situation still exists since 0.85.3 (if I don't remember it wrong...) . If MPC-BE v1.0.3.1 is terminated with Alt-F4 during playback, the red message read like dxva decoding surface failure often pops up. If the playback is paused or has ended, there is no such red text during player window closing.
Yeah, sometimes saw that myself. I consider it a minor cosmetical issue right now. It will surely be fixed at some point, just not now.

Is there anything that can be done to improve performance with Jinc 8 on chroma or luma? I know that this is still rarely used (mainly because of it´s performance), but from 6233638´s testing some pages back, it really looks very good in comparison to the other algorithms. It seems pretty useful for some SD content (where you need higher scaling factors).
I haven't even been able to make Jinc4 get faster for chroma upsampling, let alone Jinc8. And honestly, Jinc8 is not a good algorithm to use. It adds too much ringing. It works well on some content, but performs incredibly slow and adds lots of ringing. I consider Jinc3 a much better choice.

[Niyawa]

Hmmmm... I'm not sure what the media player has to do with this. It shouldn't really affect overlay playback. Sounds quite weird. Are you sure that madVR is really used by both media players? (You can turn on the debug OSD with Ctrl+J to make sure).
Yes, I'm sure both PotPlayer and MPC-HC were using madVR.

What you're describing as "shaking video": Do you mean tearing? Tearing means that one part of the image is one frame ahead of the rest of the image all the time. Or do you mean that frames appear to be shown out of order, so that movement goes back and forth all the time?
It's not tearing, as you said, tearing is when one frame is ahead of other, in this case, is not a "crop" in the image that happens, but rather a distortion in loop, which causes the shaking effect. It has a fixed pattern (shaking in vertical). It's hard for me to reproduce since it can happen with any 8-bit video that has DXVA2 and Overlay enabled and as I said, it's not -always-. I have to open and re-open so that can sometimes happen.

Try with this little sample (http://www.mediafire.com/?umpwp5ckk80qj48) that I used in LAV thread which seems to be the one where it happens often.

In any case, the problem goes away if you disable the Overlay option? Are you using DXVA decoding? Maybe it helps disabling that?
The problem is only there when I'm using DXVA2 with Overlay, and it goes away if I turn DXVA2 or Overlay itself. It seems that repeatedly using the Play/Pause button also can make it go away, and make it come back as well.

I do plan to write a full documentation, but not right now. madVR is still not feature complete. Documentation will be done as the last step before releasing v1.0.
Oh okay, makes sense, since there's still a lot to implement and change, thanks.

Why catmull rom and not lanczos?
It's just like madshi said, I did try with Lanczos but the results were not really what I expected. 6233638 also pointed out that Catmull-Rom is the most accurate downscaling algorithm to date.

[ikarad]

Do you have a sample video where Lanczos looks better than Catmull-Rom for downscaling?

Generally I agree with you that Lanczos is better for downscaling than Catmull-Rom. However, the situation is a bit different when using linear light. There Lanczos simply produces too many ringing artifacts, even with AR enabled. When not using linear light, Lanczos is probably better than Catmull-Rom, but also slower. Now the question is whether the benefit of linear light downscaling is higher or the benefit of lower aliasing with Lanczos.
I don't have any sample.
I just refer to the red and green bars in madvr for result.
With lanczos red bars are less important than with catmull.
It's why I ask.

Maybe you can correct red bars with lanczos because it can bring mistake understanding.


For max quality all options in "trade quality for performance" should be off. However, the difference in quality is rather small for some of those options. So the question is how fast your GPU is. If it's plenty fast, uncheck all those options.
I have a gtx560.


For most users having it turned on is the better solution. Leave it that way if you have no problems with it.
Thanks.

[ikarad]

It's just like madshi said, I did try with Lanczos but the results were not really what I expected. 6233638 also pointed out that Catmull-Rom is the most accurate downscaling algorithm to date.

Even if it's not related directly with madvr, I have two questions about your guide for mpc-hc,madvr and reclock

1) on http://www.homecinema-hd.com/reclock.html
guide tell that sampling rate must be at 96khz. In your guide, it's 48khz.
http://img15.hostingpics.net/thumbs/mini_905560Xw6M6.png (http://www.hostingpics.net/viewer.php?id=905560Xw6M6.png)

I would like to know why there is any difference between the two advice.

What is the better? 48 or 96khz?

I have sound blaster xfi titanium.


2) in your guide your said about reclock:
Note: If you're going to use madVR, then don't install this. madVR's own Vsync can enter in conflict with ReClock's one resulting in worse pattern of playback. This only aplies to 24p@60Hz but for now it's better to be safe until this is fixed in future versions of madVR.

I use reclock and mavr since many years and I don't see any problem.
What are the problems with reclock combined with madvr?

Have you seen any problem with reclock? Have you an example to see if I have thse same problem with my PC?

[noee]

Some low-end Llano feedback:

SD material (interlaced video and NTSC film) upscaling to 1600x900, using Jinc3/AR for image up, Jinc3 chroma up.

I'm simply watching queues, dropped frame count and playback

(1) I don't see a difference with SD content. However, interlaced video source requires that I drop AR or change to Lanczos4/AR for trouble-free playback.

(2) Same as above.

(3) Does not appear to have any impact that I can see under these scenarios (though obviously NTSC film with DXVA2 decoding is not available)

I can just say, awesome perf improvements. Jinc/AR was not usable on this machine previously for image up with SD material. Seems very solid now. Great work.

[Prinz]

Interesting. Which GPU/OS? What happens if you disable/enable the "use a separate device for DXVA processing" and "perform deinterlacing in a separate thread"? Does that fix the problem with exclusive mode?

ATI 2600 XT, Win7 x64

The Options don't make a difference.

[Niyawa]

I would like to know why there is any difference between the two advice.
What is the better? 48 or 96khz?
From what I know more khz generally does give best results, but I've never tested anything above 48, so I can't exactly give you a proper response. I put 48 khz as default because it's the safe bet. If you set anything higher than what you card supports, it may make a mess.

I have sound blaster xfi titanium.
Then I guess it's a good go.

I use reclock and mavr since many years and I don't see any problem.
What are the problems with reclock combined with madvr?
Have you seen any problem with reclock? Have you an example to see if I have thse same problem with my PC?
There's not really "problems". madshi explained that madVR isn't optimal for 24p@60hz, and since this was the very reason it was in the guide, I'm going to remove it. Using it won't make any difference to the video pattern it seems, so you can keep using it like nothing happened too.

[ikarad]

From what I know more khz generally does give best results, but I've never tested anything above 48, so I can't exactly give you a proper response. I put 48 khz as default because it's the safe bet. If you set anything higher than what you card supports, it may make a mess.
Thanks.




There's not really "problems". madshi explained that madVR isn't optimal for 24p@60hz, and since this was the very reason it was in the guide, I'm going to remove it. Using it won't make any difference to the video pattern it seems, so you can keep using it like nothing happened too.
I have 120hz lcd.

[Niyawa]

I have 120hz lcd.
You basically don't need ReClock to begin with. 23.976 and 29.970 fits perfectly in a 120hz screen. Unless you watch DVD with 25fps, that ReClock would adapt to 24.

Btw, could you tell me what is your monitor? I'm planning to import a 120 hz soon, so I kinda searching for some reasonably cheap prices. Send me through private messages, let's not spam this thread with non-related stuff.

[ikarad]

You basically don't need ReClock to begin with. 23.976 and 29.970 fits perfectly in a 120hz screen.

Even with blueray (23.976fps) I see differences with reclock with my 120hz. Some scrollings are more smooth even at 120fps with reclock.

I don't know why but I noticed it.

Btw, could you tell me what is your monitor? I'm planning to import a 120 hz soon, so I kinda searching for some reasonably cheap prices. Send me through private messages, let's not spam this thread with non-related stuff
I have asus VG236H and Benq xl2420T two 120Hz LCd TN unfortunately (I hope that ips 120 hz or oled 120hz will arrive as soon as possible).

[Niyawa]

Even with blueray (23.976fps) I see differences with reclock with my 120hz. Some scrollings are more smooth even at 120fps with reclock.

I don't know why but I noticed it.
Interesting indeed. The difference between 23.976 in a 120hz screen shouldn't been too much, good for you I guess.

I have asus VG236H and Benq xl2420T two 120Hz LCd TN unfortunately (I hope that ips 120 hz or oled 120hz will arrive as soon as possible).
I said PM sir, but okay. Those are expensive as fuck, and that Asus doesn't seem to compensate for the price. At least not in the reviews I saw. Thanks either way, I wonder if I'll ever find a 120 hz monitor between $200~250.

[AndreaMG]

madVR v0.85.5 released
Once again I need your FEEDBACK:

(1) "perform deinterlacing in separate thread". This was enabled in earlier madVR builds by default. It's now disabled by default in v0.85.5. With my AMD GPU, there's no difference. My NVidia GPU runs slightly better with this option disabled.

(2) "use a separate device for presentation". This was and still is enabled by default. It used to be a good method to reduce glitches with older NVidia drivers. I'm wondering if this option is still beneficial today with both NVidia and AMD GPUs. I've been told this option can make problems for NVidia Optimus, so I'm wondering whether I should disable it by default.

(4) "enable windowed overlay". When I originally implemented overlay, it wasn't ready for prime time yet, so I disabled this by default. But since its introduction, I have applied lots of fixes, so now it seems to work very well (only for NVidia and Intel, unfortunately). It works so well IMHO that I'm reevaluating whether I should enable this by default (not for AMD, obviously). Any thoughts on this?

Please check which way these options work better for you, and let me know your test results. If you can't see a difference, please let me know that, too.
Thanks!

Testing a 1080i mpeg2 video:

1) Mine too (the difference is however minimal).

2) The GPU load is the same and I have no glitches with it being on or off.

4) I think while disabled GPU load is slightly worse (the difference however it seems to be VERY minimal).

[AndreaMG]

madVR v0.85.5 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

The main purpose of the 2x and 3x speed improvements is the upcoming UltraHD (4k) displays. Now with v0.85.5 you can upscale Blu-Ray to UltraHD with significantly lower GPU usage, as long as you use exactly 2x upscaling. Also 720p -> UltraHD happens to be exactly 3x upscaling, so that's why I added some dedicated 3x pixel shaders, too. Please note that the exact speed improvement depends on the circumstances and especially on the GPU model.

Thanks!

That's great news! Too bad I cannot test this on a 4k display:mad: Anyway the thought of being able in a future to upscale blu-rays with jinc with these performances is welcome:) For SD video content maybe could it be lighter in term of resources to upscale the content with jinc first to 1080 and only then with 2x algorithm to 4k?:devil:

[cremor]

0.85.5 broke Jinc3 AR image upscaling from 640x352 to 1920x1080 display (exactly 3x upscaling). The picture looks extremely blurred, but not soft blurred, instead it has many sharp lines where it shouldn't.
Chroma seems fine, Mitchell-Netravali for image seems fine too.

Interestingly I can't take a screenshot by using the Print button because the picture looks fine on the resulting screenshot. And using the save image function of MPC-HC saves the image in the original resulution.

[iamhacked]

So you mean you're getting some video frames which look corrupted or overly noisy? This doesn't sound like a usual problem, no other user has reported a problem like this. This may be a problem with your GPU drivers, or maybe the GPU is overheating, or something like that. I can't really say. Do you get the same problem in windowed and fullscreen exclusive mode? You could try going back to madVR default settings, just to double check.


Yes, some video frames look corrupted, it just looks like horizontal static lines, really. GPU drivers are up-to-date and I even did a clean install. I don't think it's overheating. I only get the problem in fullscreen exclusive mode. I'll try going back to default settings.

[6233638]

Well, you said:

> it means that more demanding videos are dropping
> frames, so I would have to lower my settings if I
> disabled "use a separate device for presentation".

I suppose this was a guess based on the rendering time numbers reported by madVR. What you could do is to actually test whether you can find a situation where there are actually dropped frames in real life with "use a separate device for presentation" turned off while there are no frame drops with it turned on.No, certain videos do start dropping frames when I have that option disabled. Plays fine with it turned on.


Did you test all this with v0.85.5? Or did you test with v0.85.4 (or older)? The reason I'm asking is that I did a small change in v0.85.5 which affects the way "use a separate device for DXVA processing" works. So it's important to test this with v0.85.5.Yes, all with 0.85.5

Generally I agree with you that Lanczos is better for downscaling than Catmull-Rom. However, the situation is a bit different when using linear light. There Lanczos simply produces too many ringing artifacts, even with AR enabled. When not using linear light, Lanczos is probably better than Catmull-Rom, but also slower. Now the question is whether the benefit of linear light downscaling is higher or the benefit of lower aliasing with Lanczos.One of these days, I should try and find some good film-based samples, and do a proper comparison between all the downscaling options. (measure performance and evaluate image quality)

If you are using linear light scaling, there doesn't seem to be any other option worth using, other than Camull-Rom with the anti-ringing filter enabled though. Everything else seems to suffer from particularly nasty ringing.

Hi!
Is there a freeware player that can play dvd-s (preferably from image file) with menu-s and all and also can use madvr? (No luck with mpc-hc and potplayer)

What about the same for blu-rays?If you are using madVR with LAV Filters, DVD playback should work in MPC-HC.

Blu-ray requires something like AnyDVD HD to remove the encryption first.

madshi, I really like that you optimized Jinc 3, especially for chroma. Is there anything that can be done to improve performance with Jinc 8 on chroma or luma? I know that this is still rarely used (mainly because of it´s performance), but from 6233638´s testing some pages back, it really looks very good in comparison to the other algorithms. It seems pretty useful for some SD content (where you need higher scaling factors).

I am refering to this (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1606910#post1606910) post from him.To be clear, I have only found two or three samples total where Jinc 8 actually looks good with Chroma. These are the same samples where I would also recommend SoftCubic 100.

In most cases I would recommend Jinc 3 AR for Chroma if your system can handle it. I haven't done as extensive testing with Jinc on Chroma as I have with the other algorithms (it hasn't been around as long) but there don't seem to be any real drawbacks from using it.

In fact, Jinc 3 looks better with that sample. A little softer perhaps, but much less ringing.
http://www.abload.de/thumb/jinc7bu6d.gif (http://www.abload.de/img/jinc7bu6d.gif)
Notice the dark line in the right side of the A with Jinc 8. (ringing)

From what I know more khz generally does give best results, but I've never tested anything above 48, so I can't exactly give you a proper response. I put 48 khz as default because it's the safe bet. If you set anything higher than what you card supports, it may make a mess.While it may be better for the resampling process, once you go above 96kHz, you tend to get worse results with DACs. Benchmark Media has a paper on this with regards to their highly regarded DAC1 that goes into the details of why this is.

[madshi]

Yes, I'm sure both PotPlayer and MPC-HC were using madVR.

It's not tearing, as you said, tearing is when one frame is ahead of other, in this case, is not a "crop" in the image that happens, but rather a distortion in loop, which causes the shaking effect. It has a fixed pattern (shaking in vertical). It's hard for me to reproduce since it can happen with any 8-bit video that has DXVA2 and Overlay enabled and as I said, it's not -always-. I have to open and re-open so that can sometimes happen.

Try with this little sample (http://www.mediafire.com/?umpwp5ckk80qj48) that I used in LAV thread which seems to be the one where it happens often.

The problem is only there when I'm using DXVA2 with Overlay, and it goes away if I turn DXVA2 or Overlay itself. It seems that repeatedly using the Play/Pause button also can make it go away, and make it come back as well.
Which GPU and OS are you using? I'll try to reproduce that, but I have some doubts whether I'll be able to. FWIW, it might have to do with which video decoder you're using. Is it the same in MPC-HC and PotPlayer?

I don't have any sample.
I just refer to the red and green bars in madvr for result.
Oh, ok. Well, these bars don't take linear light into account. Also they were mostly created for upscaling.

Some low-end Llano feedback:

SD material (interlaced video and NTSC film) upscaling to 1600x900, using Jinc3/AR for image up, Jinc3 chroma up.

I'm simply watching queues, dropped frame count and playback

(1) I don't see a difference with SD content. However, interlaced video source requires that I drop AR or change to Lanczos4/AR for trouble-free playback.

(2) Same as above.

(3) Does not appear to have any impact that I can see under these scenarios (though obviously NTSC film with DXVA2 decoding is not available)

I can just say, awesome perf improvements. Jinc/AR was not usable on this machine previously for image up with SD material. Seems very solid now. Great work.
Thanks for the feedback.

ATI 2600 XT, Win7 x64

The Options don't make a difference.
Ok. You could play with the flush, backbuffer and queue settings, to see if it makes a difference. It's kinda weird that FSE mode doesn't work so well for you. Normally for AMD users it used to work pretty well, AFAIK.

Testing a 1080i mpeg2 video:

1) Mine too (the difference is however minimal).

2) The GPU load is the same and I have no glitches with it being on or off.

4) I think while disabled GPU load is slightly worse (the difference however it seems to be VERY minimal).
Ok, thanks.

For SD video content maybe could it be lighter in term of resources to upscale the content with jinc first to 1080 and only then with 2x algorithm to 4k?:devil:
I'm pretty sure that would be slower. It would also not be good for image quality.

0.85.5 broke Jinc3 AR image upscaling from 640x352 to 1920x1080 display (exactly 3x upscaling). The picture looks extremely blurred, but not soft blurred, instead it has many sharp lines where it shouldn't.
Chroma seems fine, Mitchell-Netravali for image seems fine too.

Interestingly I can't take a screenshot by using the Print button because the picture looks fine on the resulting screenshot. And using the save image function of MPC-HC saves the image in the original resulution.
Oooops. During my testing I played with when the special 2x and 3x shaders are activated, and I accidently left Jinc image upscaling active for 3x scaling instead of 2x scaling, although the shader only properly works for 2x scaling. My fault, will be fixed in the next build.

Yes, some video frames look corrupted, it just looks like horizontal static lines, really. GPU drivers are up-to-date and I even did a clean install. I don't think it's overheating. I only get the problem in fullscreen exclusive mode. I'll try going back to default settings.
That's rather weird. Not heard of such a problem from anyone else yet. If all else fails, you'll simply have to live without FSE mode. Or you could try whether tweaking all those various madVR settings (e.g. flush, buffers, queue sizes, "prepresent" on/off etc) helps somehow.

No, certain videos do start dropping frames when I have that option disabled. Plays fine with it turned on.
Ok. So the option does help in your case. Do you agree that I should still turn it off *by default*, because it breaks playback with Nvidia Optimus (and AMD shared systems, too)?

[6233638]

Ok. So the option does help in your case. Do you agree that I should still turn it off *by default*, because it breaks playback with Nvidia Optimus (and AMD shared systems, too)?It definitely seems reasonable to do that, but it seems to reduce performance across the board, which can make the difference between videos playing smoothly or not with slower cards.

I would prefer it to be enabled by default, and disabled if one of those multi-GPU setups are detected.

But it probably makes sense to have it disabled by default for now, or to at least add a clear warning to the toggle, that it needs to be disabled for Optimus/AMD's solution.



Unrelated to that, the optimizations with Jinc have made a big difference. With 720p or lower videos, I can use Jinc 3 AR for Chroma now, and Jinc 3 without the AR filter for 1080p content.

[Mangix]

I tried upping the settings to the point where it would start dropping frames on this GPU and with the "use a separate device for presentation" option enabled, i got lower rendering times but more frame drops(around 5 frames a second) whereas with it disabled, i got higher rendering times but less frame drops(3-4). Something is up.

edit: i also have a question about the refresh rate switcher. when it switches to a custom resolution of eg. 48Hz or 50Hz, everything is fine. But when it switches back to 60Hz, it switches not to the normal 60Hz resolution but some special HDTV one. here are two screenshots:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/102011983/madVR%20bugs/refresh%20rate%20before.png

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/102011983/madVR%20bugs/refresh%20rate%20after.png

before madVR and after madVR respectively. Why does this happen?

A similar thing also happens with the regular exclusive mode but not the old one(present several frames in advance unchecked).

[ryrynz]

Madshi, thoughts on a general GPU performance impact bar graph showing along with the rest for each of the algorithms?

[madshi]

Unrelated to that, the optimizations with Jinc have made a big difference. With 720p or lower videos, I can use Jinc 3 AR for Chroma now, and Jinc 3 without the AR filter for 1080p content.
Glad to hear that.

I tried upping the settings to the point where it would start dropping frames on this GPU and with the "use a separate device for presentation" option enabled, i got lower rendering times but more frame drops(around 5 frames a second) whereas with it disabled, i got higher rendering times but less frame drops(3-4). Something is up.
Interesting. This is what I meant when I said that trusting rendering times alone isn't always telling the whole truth. However, 6233638 also has better real life performance with the option enabled compared to having it disabled. So it once again seems like the option behaves differently for different setups. Anyway, I'll disable it by default in the next build.

edit: i also have a question about the refresh rate switcher. when it switches to a custom resolution of eg. 48Hz or 50Hz, everything is fine. But when it switches back to 60Hz, it switches not to the normal 60Hz resolution but some special HDTV one.
I think this was reported by other Windows 8 users before. It doesn't seem to occur on Windows 7. You could create a debug log for me to check if I can see anything wrong. But IIRC last time I checked, madVR behaved correctly. I think it's probably a driver problem. I think that either the driver is telling madVR that the original mode was 59Hz. Or alternatively, when madVR asks the OS/driver to switch to 60Hz, the driver switches to 59Hz instead. One of those 2 things, I think.

Madshi, thoughts on a general GPU performance impact bar graph showing along with the rest for each of the algorithms?
That's not as easy as it may sound. Performance depends on so many factors. E.g. I've found that on my PC Jinc scaling is relatively fast with very small scaling factors, but gets exponentionally slower with bigger scaling factors. Also the anti-ringing filter is so much slower on older generation GPUs than it is on newer generation GPUs. Finally, with v0.85.5 I just introduced special shader code for 2x and 3x scaling factors, which is way faster than with other scaling factors. How could I possibly show such effects with one simple graph?

[ryrynz]

That's not as easy as it may sound.

Simple but not.. I know. It would just be beneficial I think that a first time user knows that X uses more GPU compute power than Y, I know about the rest, just an idea.
Probably pointless if you implement performance levels and have the graphics benchmarked beforehand with it being placed a settings category.

Regarding Overlay, I found it uses around 2% less GPU usage on my HD3000 however whilst MPC is a window I get no image at all, fullscreen and the video shows.
Occurs on HD4000 as well, using 2897 drivers ATM.

Regarding, "use a separate device for presentation" disabling this is fine in FSE, come out of that however and my video turns into super slow glitchy mess.

[madshi]

Regarding Overlay, I found it uses around 2% less GPU usage on my HD3000 however whilst MPC is a window I get no image at all, fullscreen and the video shows.
Occurs on HD4000 as well, using 2897 drivers ATM.
Weird. Last time I checked it worked just fine on my HD3000. Which OS? Aero on or off?

Regarding, "use a separate device for presentation" disabling this is fine in FSE, come out of that however and my video turns into super slow glitchy mess.
HD3000/4000 again? With Overlay turned off?

[madshi]

madVR v0.85.6 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: Jinc 3x image upscaling was broken (introduced in v0.85.5)
* fixed: settings dialog eventually crashed when media player was closed first
* removed "perform deinterlacing in separate thread" option (now always on)
* moved "use a separate device for DXVA processing" to a different tab
* option "use a separate device for presentation" now disabled by default
* sorted "trade quality for performance" options: "best" options first
* added two more DXVA related "trade quality for performance" options
This might be the last new version for a while - unless important bugs show up. Gotta do some commercial work, and a new eac3to build is also needed. So it might take a couple weeks before I get back to serious madVR development.

[Carpo]

madVR v0.85.6 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: Jinc 3x image upscaling was broken (introduced in v0.85.5)
* fixed: settings dialog eventually crashed when media player was closed first
* removed "perform deinterlacing in separate thread" option (now always on)
* moved "use a separate device for DXVA processing" to a different tab
* option "use a separate device for presentation" now disabled by default
* sorted "trade quality for performance" options: "best" options first
* added two more DXVA related "trade quality for performance" options
This might be the last new version for a while - unless important bugs show up. Gotta do some commercial work, and a new eac3to build is also needed. So it might take a couple weeks before I get back to serious madVR development.

Cool, was thinking of asking about eac3to :) Thanks for all the hard work, and great quality playback ;)

[ryrynz]

Weird. Last time I checked it worked just fine on my HD3000. Which OS? Aero on or off?

Windows 7 x64, Aero on.


HD3000/4000 again? With Overlay turned off?

Overlay is off. I've actually found the glitchyness is removed by having flush and sleep on the last render step, I still get dropped frames with it disabled with what appears to be any combination of flush settings though but it looks to be case of you shouldn't play with the default flush settings if you don't need to :D Same deal with having "use a separate device for presentation" disabled ,after upgrading and resetting to defaults that's working fine too.

Overlay is working fine with 0.85.6 using default settings, probably a non default configuration issue causing Overlay to show blank on the HD3000, I might hunt that down.
If I run Overlay in fullscreen it plays fine directly after changing to Overlay but windowed is blank, a bit odd. It all works fine after a player restart though.

One thing that's still a minor niggle with Overlay is when resizing to fullscreen, it's still a bit messy with the media play window edges holding their position on screen for a bit, would be nice to see a nice clean stretch if possible.
And there's also the image when doing resizing by dragging which has been brought up before, maybe the screen should just go blank when doing this and a repaint done once the the window has settled that would certainly look neater, maybe a MadVR logo or something instead of a blank screen, that would be kinda cool.

For SD video content maybe could it be lighter in term of resources to upscale the content with jinc first to 1080 and only then with 2x algorithm to 4k?:devil:

This was my first thought too, finally I can use Jinc for Luma! But after upscaling to 720 however I found it actually didn't improve things at all, oh well Haswell is coming up soon, gonna nab me a i7-4770S I think http://forum.slysoft.com/images/smilies/agreed.gif

[AndreaMG]

madVR v0.85.6 released
This might be the last new version for a while - unless important bugs show up.
Thanks for the great work.:)

[AndreaMG]

oh well Haswell is coming up soon, gonna nab me a i7-4770S I think
Not CPU but GPU is what you need (Nvidia Maxwell:devil:).

[Zarper]

Can't enable "use a separate device for DXVA processing" in 0.85.6.

[wanezhiling]

Can't enable "use a separate device for DXVA processing" in 0.85.6.

Same here.

[madshi]

Overlay is working fine with 0.85.6 using default settings, probably a non default configuration issue causing Overlay to show blank on the HD3000, I might hunt that down.
That would be helpful, thanks.

Can't enable "use a separate device for DXVA processing" in 0.85.6.
Argh.

[madshi]

madVR v0.85.6.1 released

http://madshi.net/madVR.zip

* fixed: "use a separate device for DXVA processing" couldn't be activated
Actually madVR itself didn't change at all. Only mvrSettings.dll and madHcCtrl.exe changed. Thus the cryptic version number.