madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Klaus1189]

2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60 is enough and better, because 25 fps content can be interlaced and by using 25 Hz mode you drop the advantage of motion resolution of 50 Hz of 25fps interlaced content, same for 29/30 and 59/60.

[Klaus1189]

And you must decide between the two things:
A) You use refresh rate change with 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60
OR
B) You enable smooth motion of madvr and stick with 60 Hz

Try both and stay what you like best, and of course diable all smooth motion interpolation crap of your TV, regardless of the manufacturer.

[Morgin187]

Thanx for your reply and help. I'll try using those to see if it makes a difference. Do i need to include other resolutions or do they get included automatically?

[Klaus1189]

You should only use 3840x2160, because then you let madVR do the scaling and you can take whatever scaling method you like and what your GPU can handle. Other refresh rates are not needed.

By the way, one of my TVs is also a Q9FN with thank god still 1270, do not upgrade your firmware to 1290, disable automatic firmware update now, there is an issue, I contacted Samsung already and they made screensots via Remote control and the Developers get the info. A smaller Samsung of me has already the issue, because it made an autoupdate to 1290 and I recognized the issue. In the meantime just stay with the firmware you have and wait for a fix.

[Morgin187]

thanx but too late it automatically updated. i read somewhere else it makes local dimming better. what is the issue your having?

[Klaus1189]

It only affects pc mode, which you must select of Samsung TVs to get 4:4:4/RGB color shown on the screen, 60 Hz is fine, but when using for example 50 Hz mode then the picture is cut off around (Overscan) and you can not change it in PC mode anymore.
To see the issue, you must set the TV to pc mode first then turn it off and after restart the error uccurs, I called Samsung and talked to them about 45 minutes with a very qualified person and I am pretty sure it will get fixed soon. I couldn't believe not a single one reported that to them, so it took quite long. But really nice that they can go on remote to your TV when there is an issue and take screenshots with OSD info of the TV and so on.

[Morgin187]

Buddy your the exact person i need for more info. Im loving the tv and using pc only for gaming and movies/tv shows just trying to get the most out of it. So i use PC mode with rgb full 8bit to get full chroma or 4:4:4. also hdmi level normal or low with one of these settings. With PC mode im losing settings (greyed out) and can only select dynamic or standard. for e.g i like to up the colour a little for more vibrance i'm not able to get it calibrated professionally

[Klaus1189]

I think I don't understand what exactly you want to accomplish, but the "make the image better" crap like motion stuff is already mostly off and you can adjust in advanced options in picture menu some stuff if needed for further stuff. I must admit I don't know how the english menu entries in called, since I am in Germany.

I just hope that users get that there is not a ultimate TV, just look at LG OLEDs and also some SONY OLEDS, they have bad 24p stutter compared to other TVs:
https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/motion/stutter

[onur]

hi,
i found reproducible setup - and postet it in a new thread.
https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1892318

logfiles:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1T4D9KRNp1ZbW0vCK1mbXAMoO50I0sXB4


i have a problem with my video-player,
when playing video from resume position i get (black screen).
some resume positions work, some not.
in attachment i have a log for resume pos 00:01:04 which works, and 00:01:07 not working.

debugger reports, a lot of:
Microsoft C++ exception: _com_error at memory location 0x1ACDBA5C.

in madvrlog i can see: copying back buffer failed (new mode)
and log file gets realy huge.
regards, onur

[Klaus1189]

upload to external filehoster like google drive, we cannot download it

[Morgin187]

you were right about the overscan thing losing all side of the image. hope theres a fix soon. another question does full chroma matter when watching movies or tv shows. or is mainly for web browsing using apps?

[PurpleMan]

I'm currently running a Geforce GTX 1050 w/ 2gb of GDDR5 on my HTPC. Plays everything just fine (incl. NGU resize and 4K HDR).

I have an opportunity to upgrade it dirt cheap to a GTX 1650 w/ 4 gb of GDDR5. Would that be an upgrade (as it relates to madvr)? Is that card more powerful than the 1050?


Thanks

[huhn]

the 1650 is about 50% faster then an 1050 and it is generally a bad card for the money a 1650 S is more then 2x faster then a 1050.

[PurpleMan]

Thanks. No idea how I overlooked that, especially considering the 1650 Super is only $10 more than the non-super.

Order placed.

Thanks!

[huhn]

the existent of the 1650 is indeed very questionable.
the availability of the 1650 S is still bad it may even get cheaper.

waiting a month or more for 10-20 euros is not worth it in my eyes.

edit: can you do some basic performance test with the card when you get it some people ask about the madVR performance of this card and only someone owning it should show how good it is.

[WuNgUn]

And you must decide between the two things:
A) You use refresh rate change with 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60
OR
B) You enable smooth motion of madvr and stick with 60 Hz

Try both and stay what you like best, and of course diable all smooth motion interpolation crap of your TV, regardless of the manufacturer.

Samsung's do a really nice job with judder reduction and smooth motion...
I wouldn't waste the GPU/CPU cycles on MadVR for this... Instead, improve image quality.
But like you said, it's a personal choice.

[Klaus1189]

you were right about the overscan thing losing all side of the image. hope theres a fix soon. another question does full chroma matter when watching movies or tv shows. or is mainly for web browsing using apps?

About 99% of all available videos are 4:2:0, so not a real issue for average user, but if you use madVR for chroma upsampling you have to use pc mode for 4:4:4, so you can actually see the upscaling, otherwise the TV will interpret the signal as 4:2:0 and the upscaling "is for the ass"

And if you use the TV as computer monitor you also want 4:4:4 (RGB is equivalent because it is always full chroma reolution) to have sharp picture.
More info about 4:4:4 full color resolution:
https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/chroma-subsampling
https://www.rtings.com/images/test-materials/2017/chroma-444.png

http://madshi.net/madVR/ChromaRes.png

Here you must see the blue and red pixels, only around it is magenta
Note: Of course all pictures must be scaled 1:1 on the screen
I made a zoomed in screenshot, so for users who are new to this can see the actual difference:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KmnoBAGyNGpPh4F77wocBRDf0f1wHaru/view?usp=sharing

Samsung's do a really nice job with judder reduction and smooth motion...
I wouldn't waste the GPU/CPU cycles on MadVR for this... Instead, improve image quality.
But like you said, it's a personal choice.

You are right, but I can not recommend Samsungs smooth motion in madVR thread ;)

[Morgin187]

Sorry if I’m asking too many questions but you’re helping a lot. Problem now is I choose pc mode and it gives me the two option dynamic and standard with other options greyed out on the tv so I know I’m in pc mode. But as soon as the file starts to play on madvr I’m back to normal mode being able to select movie standard vivid on tv telling me I’m not in pc mode anymore. This happens full screen and windowed playback.

Also the chroma test am I looking for blue and purple outside the numbers and solid colours inside. Or blue purple inside 422 or inside 444 or inside both. I’m doing the test in full screen 1.1 scaling. Also does this test matter in hdr

Also any settings to concentrate my GPUs power to eliminate colour banding and black crush

Thanks so much btw for help given

[WuNgUn]

You WANT to use PC mode for playing media??

[Morgin187]

Yeh I want to get as much colour and detail from my tv as possible. 444 makes a big difference looking at these images on this forum

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/how-important-is-4-4-4-chroma-to-you.1308591/

[WuNgUn]

Yeh I want to get as much colour and detail from my tv as possible. 444 makes a big difference looking at these images on this forum

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/how-important-is-4-4-4-chroma-to-you.1308591/Whatever display settings game mode gives you, should be available in other TV modes... It could be other reasons some settings are greyed out.
For example, a LOT of settings on my Samsung TV aren't available at 60Hz refresh. Once I used MadVR to match the refresh rate of the content (23.97Hz), the all the display settings became available.
Another reason my I recommended using the TV's processing for judder and smooth motion...

[Klaus1189]

..::too long for quoting::..

What Media Player do you use and what GPU? I need that info.

[Morgin187]

Im using madvr with mpc-hc and geforce gtx 1080. when i am able to select pc mode with the player playback everythings dark. ive changed the pc levels 0-255 and 16-235 to help but only makes a very tiny difference. the other hdmi levels are greyed out. pc mode is working during this as the chroma image you gave works like in your image. and the brown fox text is clear with proper scaling.

[Klaus1189]

On PC mode the TV wants to be fed with 0-255. I must admit, that I don't understand the problem you have properly. When the file starts, the pc mode disappears to normal?
For eliminating colour banding go to madVR options -> rendering -> dithering
How does the black crush look? Do you use refresh rate switching?

[Morgin187]

ive solved the problem pc mode disappearing to normal when starting a movie with madvr. the problem now is everything is too dark ive got the tv on hdmi normal setting and 0-255 on madvr

[huhn]

Samsung's do a really nice job with judder reduction and smooth motion...
I wouldn't waste the GPU/CPU cycles on MadVR for this... Instead, improve image quality.
But like you said, it's a personal choice.
it barely possibile to measure the processing cost in madVR and they try to achieve something completely different.
You are right, but I can not recommend Samsungs smooth motion in madVR thread ;)
just the same name they have nothing todo with each other.

Sorry if I’m asking too many questions but you’re helping a lot. Problem now is I choose pc mode and it gives me the two option dynamic and standard with other options greyed out on the tv so I know I’m in pc mode. But as soon as the file starts to play on madvr I’m back to normal mode being able to select movie standard vivid on tv telling me I’m not in pc mode anymore. This happens full screen and windowed playback.

Also the chroma test am I looking for blue and purple outside the numbers and solid colours inside. Or blue purple inside 422 or inside 444 or inside both. I’m doing the test in full screen 1.1 scaling. Also does this test matter in hdr

Also any settings to concentrate my GPUs power to eliminate colour banding and black crush

Thanks so much btw for help given
because Samsung can't usually do PC mode at 23p.
and let me guess if you disable PC mode at 60 hz you still can't use the frame interpoaltion thingy in your TV because it is a 60 hz panel meaning 23p is is a hoax too? with modern Samsung the majority has this issue.

You WANT to use PC mode for playing media??

usually the most accurate mode with 4.4:4 support so making it obviously something you want if you care about an accurate image.
Whatever display settings game mode gives you, should be available in other TV modes... It could be other reasons some settings are greyed out.
For example, a LOT of settings on my Samsung TV aren't available at 60Hz refresh. Once I used MadVR to match the refresh rate of the content (23.97Hz), the all the display settings became available.
Another reason my I recommended using the TV's processing for judder and smooth motion...

do as you please just sad that most Samsung can't display a 23p file correctly.

Im using madvr with mpc-hc and geforce gtx 1080. when i am able to select pc mode with the player playback everythings dark. ive changed the pc levels 0-255 and 16-235 to help but only makes a very tiny difference. the other hdmi levels are greyed out. pc mode is working during this as the chroma image you gave works like in your image. and the brown fox text is clear with proper scaling.
try this on a desktop with the GPU at 0-255: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php

tell me what you see.

same here:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-display-calibration/948496-avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration.html

the basic settings -> 1-Black Clipping.mp4
again tell me what you see all with the GPU at 0-255.

ive solved the problem pc mode disappearing to normal when starting a movie with madvr. the problem now is everything is too dark ive got the tv on hdmi normal setting and 0-255 on madvr

pretty sure normal is wrong with a GPU at 0-255. but they use what ever names they want with these option i guess "deep" was full range for Samsung.

[Klaus1189]

Well, looks I am not needed anymore, with my Samsung which can't do 23p ... :rolleyes:

[huhn]

just check it: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung

[WuNgUn]

@Huhn
From what I know of Samsung TV's, running in game mode makes concession to image quality and motion backlighting for the sake of low latency.
I would recommend against it

Edit: my bad....misunderstood PC colours and game mode on the TV. Obviously not the same thing!

[Klaus1189]

just check it: https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/samsung

And what is there?

My model is fine. I checked rtings before buying it.

[WuNgUn]

.





try this on a desktop with the GPU at 0-255: http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php



tell me what you see

For me, RGB full at 8 bits, the blacks are indistinguishable...
Going to YCbCr 422 gives me all the blacks...
Going 444 messes everything up in playback... Maybe a driver issue?
Does this...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191207/0c8dacc0ebb0aeba6a2a31056108b256.jpg

[WuNgUn]

In fact, both ycbcr color setting mess up video playback now!
Ugh!

[Asmodian]

You need a limited range RGB option? That cannot be right. Something must be messed up. :(

[WuNgUn]

You need a limited range RGB option? That cannot be right. Something must be messed up. :(Yeah, I have a limited and full range RGB mode...
But that doesn't display black levels properly.
Reverted to an older driver and running 4:4:2 at 10 bit now without issue.

[Asterra]

Hey all. What's the trick to preventing MadVR-slash-MPC-BE (latest versions) from adjusting the refresh rate on fullscreen? I turned this on for a little while, discovered either Nvidia or Windows 10 can't output 24Hz to my TV without zooming the desktop in slightly (https://i.imgur.com/ASeZRXT.jpg), and now I want to just return to bad old 60Hz. The problem is that even though I've turned off all the options that turned the thing on, it's ignoring me and changing the refresh rate to the video's framerate regardless, meaning for the time being I can't use fullscreen.

(And obviously if anyone has insight into why the desktop is being zoomed in when I pick 23,24,25,50Hz, that would potentially be even more helpful. But it's outside the scope of this thread.)

[Klaus1189]

What is your TV? There is an issue of Samsung TV with latest new version 1290 at least on 50 Hz, didn't test 23Hz and 24 Hz mode.

It depends of where you entered the refresh rates to be changed, this can be eiter in MPC-BE oder madVR, lookup each options and remove the entered values.

[Asterra]

What is your TV? There is an issue of Samsung TV with latest new version 1290 at least on 50 Hz, didn't test 23Hz and 24 Hz mode.Fair point. Samsung Q70R, and yeah it auto-updated to the latest I'll try another factory reset. You happen to recall where people were talking about this issue? I had eliminated the TV as the culprit because 24Hz (etc.) output from the Nvidia Shield did not get zoomed in; it displayed frame-perfect as expected.

It depends of where you entered the refresh rates to be changed, this can be eiter in MPC-BE oder madVR, lookup each options and remove the entered values.
I made that change in MPC-BE. It's reverted. If the option also exists in madVR then I'm simply blind.

[Klaus1189]

Yes yesterday, go from this post on https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1892212#post1892212

[Klaus1189]

I'll try another factory reset.
It doesn't help, I tried it, and there is no way downgrade the firmware, Samsung support told me that.

At least my Q9FN is still on 1270 and working just fine. Only waiting helps for devices already updated to 1290.



If the option also exists in madVR then I'm simply blind.

here (https://www.google.de/search?q=madvr+refresh+rates&sxsrf=ACYBGNRSgqhv2LonAdenX1EmNxWNiTl42Q:1575801664493&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiWhsvT7qXmAhXtwsQBHWmgDrEQ_AUoA3oECAwQBQ&biw=1920&bih=966#imgrc=DWhrGzdTf0UvZM)the list all displaymodes... in madVR options

[Asterra]

What is your TV? There is an issue of Samsung TV with latest new version 1290 at least on 50 Hz, didn't test 23Hz and 24 Hz mode.

(Ignore this) Well I'm over the moon. Factory reset did indeed make the 24Hz problem go away. I guess now the trick is to figure out what's the last software update that didn't make things to to s***. And where to get it.

Edit: Nope, I misinterpreted what I was seeing. The display started out in 24Hz due to not being identified, and during this moment only, it was displaying the full desktop. The moment I changed refresh rate to 60, that was the end of my reprieve. Factory reset did not revert the software.

[Asterra]

It doesn't help, I tried it, and there is no way downgrade the firmware, Samsung support told me that.
Hmm. I feel bad now. It worked for me so it hurts to see somebody still suffering what I went through.

Here's an item that might randomly end up being important: After I did my factory reset, the TV flatly failed to identify my PC's port as "PC" or anything at all, even though it had zero problems with this on three prior occasions. (The only difference is that I initially had the PC plugged into the allegedly more capable HDMI4, and then swapped back to HDMI1. It failed in both cases though.) Perhaps this lack-of-identification might end up being a critical component of kludging a solution. I'll add that even though the device wasn't identified properly, I'm getting 4:4:4 color resolution regardless.

That said, now I'm having trouble getting madVR to change the refresh rate on the fly like it was doing before...

Okay, addendum: Even though I didn't reconnect the TV to wireless, it somehow downloaded its update in the background anyway and now I have to do it all over again. I suppose now we'll see if my luck repeats.

Edit 2: I was misinterpreting what I saw. The "factory reset" caused the phenomenon of the display not being recognized, which in turn caused it to start out at 24Hz rather than 60, and for whatever reason, during this post-reset window only, it was showing the full desktop. Changing the refresh rate to 60 and back caused the zooming phenomenon to return.

[Asterra]

It doesn't help, I tried it, and there is no way downgrade the firmware, Samsung support told me that.
As a proof of concept, I tried this: Changing the refresh rate, then swapping to a new port. In this case, HDMI3, which I hadn't used before. The TV failed to recognize it, and I'm staring at full-frame 4K23 again.

So... get a HDMI switch maybe?

I'll be contacting Samsung about this, just to light a little extra fire under their pants and make sure they understand it's more than just one person griping about this. I already had a long chat with them about how the "Movie" Display Mode cannot be picked for anything except "TV" of all things, rendering Rtings' recommended settings unusable. Eventually I'll have a chat with them about how their TV uses vertical dithering that essentially prevents it from being able to actually deliver 4:4:4.

[Klaus1189]

The issue only appears when when the HDMI port is labeled as PC (PC Icon) if you want to get 4:4:4 color on the Samsung, and 60 Hz is fine, but 50 Hz for sure and maybe others are affected, too, I told Samsung that they should check it too.
After the HDMI port is labled to PC, switch the TV off and on again and then the issue appears, you can also switch to "TV" of input selection and back to HDMI port, then the issue also appears. This hole thing did reqire some testing but I did a factory reset, to be sure I am not crazy, but aftea few trial and error I knew whats going on and wrote an polite Email to Samsung, made clear that I am not an average user, more a power user who knows what he's doing and a polite person called me to made a call back meeting to a specialist of Samsung, who was sure, that there is no problem, but they can make screenshots when you allow them to go on your TV and I showed him the AV settings of a Settop box (it's only a small TV in bedroom, but affected since 1290) he soon got that there is an issue becuase I had still the Q9FN which was on still on 1270, because I capped the LAN cable, turned it then on and turned off auto update and had luck there was still 1270 on it and for the meeting I showed him the exactly same things like on the small one, and there it worked all perfect and he wrote a very detailed error decription for the devs on Samsung, so the devs can see when the issue appears. I am pretty sure that will get fixed soon.

[Klaus1189]

So... get a HDMI switch maybe
Doesn't help, see my previous post when the issue appears

I'll be contacting Samsung about this, just to light a little extra fire under their pants and make sure they understand it's more than just one person griping about this.

Good idea, but be sure to be and also stay polite, even when the person you are talking may not know about all that stuff you know. Just explain what what is 4:4:4 compared to 4:2:0 and then let them to some tests.

I was lucky to get one affected TV and one not affected TV, so perfect for reporting a bug to them.

[olli66]

Hi guys, I am expiring a problem that is caused by a Win 10 update. Same problem I faced a year ago. A Windows update ruined the mad vr hdr passthrough. Back then I solved it with a combination of deinstalling windows updates and installing an older NVIDIA driver which was supposed to be the latest compatible one. Now it is the same problem as back then. Tapping in the dark which windows update caused it. Anyone with the same problem and someone who can tell if it is possible at all to have hdr passthrough with the latest win 10 updates? If not, which update broke it?

[Klaus1189]

Here are also some guys who had that issue, perhaps you also ask there, perhaps these guys have found the solution which perhaps also works for you. Here a link to exactly the post and newer ones:
AMD, Intel and Nvidia driver issues and last recommended version (https://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1891470#post1891470)

Hope it helps :)

[Asterra]

I was lucky to get one affected TV and one not affected TV, so perfect for reporting a bug to them.
Did you notice that when your TV goes into zoom-mode, the nature of its dithering changes? (I'm making an assumption here but I'm pretty confident the same panel hardware is used universally across their lineup.) In every mode that is pixel-perfect, the dithering used by the TV is a very annoying vertical variety that results in: Horizontal lines of alternating light/dark, particularly blatant on light blues (https://i.imgur.com/qNjReB1.jpg), and the inability to provide accurate colors when they don't align well with this vertical dithering (the two areas up-right from the "1" are supposed to look identical -- zoom out until you see how they differ) (https://i.imgur.com/pZBqcLW.jpg). But when the TV is in zoom-mode, we get crosshatch dithering -- bright/dark patterning in an x-shape (https://i.imgur.com/BEZPsNE.jpg) on top of the other issues.

[WuNgUn]

Okay... Can someone please set the record straight for me? Lol
What colour profile do I want?
4K HDR TV, most of my media is 4K HDR 10 bit...
Currently using 4:4:2, 12 bit (limited) output fine.
4:4:4 is probably preferred, but since MadVR is doing its chroma magic, it probably isn't necessary...?
If I use RGB full, I don't get the proper black levels...

[olli66]

I found the solution. Windows installed a new NVIDIA driver without asking or I didn't notice. I uninstalled and installed the old version which works. Strange though, since over a year no new NVIDIA driver that works on my system with HDR passthrough...

[WuNgUn]

I found the solution. Windows installed a new NVIDIA driver without asking or I didn't notice. I uninstalled and installed the old version which works. Strange though, since over a year no new NVIDIA driver that works on my system with HDR passthrough...I used a driver cleaner this week (name eludes me) it wiped the old vid driver and sets up windows so it doesn't load windows update drivers on reboot...
Definitely ideal