madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[madshi]

ETA: When it's done.

[Razoola]

I'm just wondering madshi if you have any plans or thoughts in the future to add to madvr what reclock does? What I'm basically saying is a madAR we can use to replace reclock?

[noee]

Which component/feature of Reclock are you referring? Resampling for audio/video synch? Vsynch correction? (non-issue with fs-ex-mode) AC/3 encoder? Bitstream WASAPI? PAL playback adjustment? Why reinvent the wheel?

[Razoola]

Which component/feature of Reclock are you referring? Resampling for audio/video synch? Vsynch correction? (non-issue with fs-ex-mode) AC/3 encoder? Bitstream WASAPI? PAL playback adjustment? Why reinvent the wheel?

Basically everything but done in a way that the video renderer (madVR) controls vsync correction so media can play at a speed to match refresh rate and then the audio render (madAR) would do the resampling or repeat/drop packets through bitstreaming to keep audio sync with video.

Im not saying that reclock is not a great thing already but I think there would be people who would like something easier to use than reclock and also something that would be more focused on bitstreaming.

I am also wondering if such a madAR could use the gpu for audio resampling

[dansrfe]

^ that's a good idea actually. Seems like a lot of work to integrate that into madVR from scratch though. Let's see what madshi thinks about it.

@ madshi

When can we expect to see subtitle support in madVR? I know it's on your to-do-list but any estimated time? Thanks :)

[DigitalLF]

what is wrong with people.... subtitles work better at least for me with ffdshow because of all different resolutions and aspect ratios ..


if people keep nagging on MadShi I'd guess he will lose interest in this project.... subtitles is not the most important thing about MadVR....

[madshi]

I'm just wondering madshi if you have any plans or thoughts in the future to add to madvr what reclock does? What I'm basically saying is a madAR we can use to replace reclock?
No plans to replicate all the funny things Reclock is doing. I do hope that with a future madVR version smooth playback at the original movie framerate will be possible without Reclock, though.

When can we expect to see subtitle support in madVR?
You know, this question was asked about 5 times in the last 20 posts. I'm getting tired of writing the same answer again and again.

[leeperry]

No plans to replicate all the funny things Reclock is doing. I do hope that with a future madVR version smooth playback at the original movie framerate will be possible without Reclock, though.
when playing 25fps@100.000Hz or 24fps@96.000Hz, I usually get a rough estimate of one duped frame every....+5 hours:

http://www.pixelz.fr/9/f/9/01242cf35127adf39b19095c3baad.png

You said that the duped frame estimate was currently wrong, but if it's not that off...maybe James would agree to add a debug option to disable resampling when the frame rate/refresh rate match exactly, that could be fun http://forum.slysoft.com/images/smilies/agreed.gif

or maybe we could trigger the "BypassResampler" reg entry manually throught the VBS script, not sure.

[janos666]

I'm just wondering madshi if you have any plans or thoughts in the future to add to madvr what reclock does? What I'm basically saying is a madAR we can use to replace reclock?

The only reason why I use ReClock that it offers WASAPI Exlusive mode. It is a superior audio renderer. (And it can come in handy if I accidentally get a PAL material.)
So, I think it is a better question: Do you (madshi) plan to write an Audio renderer as well? :cool:
(By the way, I don't think you should - at least until you "finish" this video renderer - So, this is not a request...)

[Andy o]

Madshi, I know madVR doesn't do deinterlacing, but can it work with the card outputting 30i? I get freezes with it. Got an Nvidia GTX460 (258.96 drivers) on Win 7-64. I can't remember this being a problem with the ATI 5770, but you know, I don't remember having tested it particularly either.

[Mangix]

The only reason why I use ReClock that it offers WASAPI Exlusive mode. It is a superior audio renderer. (And it can come in handy if I accidentally get a PAL material.)
So, I think it is a better question: Do you (madshi) plan to write an Audio renderer as well? :cool:
(By the way, I don't think you should - at least until you "finish" this video renderer - So, this is not a request...)

MPC Audio Renderer also supports WASAPI

[Razoola]

MPC Audio Renderer also supports WASAPI

Maybe a little off topic but how do you enable that?

[Snowknight26]

Output in options.

[bur]

I don't know if this is the proper thread, because it might be ffdshow related.

I have an MKV with a subtitle stream. The stream shows up in Haali, MPC and ffdshow. I enabled the correct stream in Haali and MPC. In ffdshow subtitles are enabled as well.

But the subtitles aren't shown. To make sure the subtitles aren't corrupted I tried with EVR and they display just fine.

[Vovanchik]

actively use your renderer and the experience of using accumulated a couple of questions.
1. fps video is taken from the start of the grath, but it does not take into account that in the processing of video, he can change.
I actively use svp (Smooth Video Pack) - and he was in the process of video processing increases fps by constructing an intermediate frame (ffdshow avisynth + mvtools2.dll)
eventually to the renderer submitting more than in the source file frame rate, composition rate in old version is set 59.940 despite the fact that the video from ffdshow already comes with display fps (60.015)
perhaps because of this periodical are jerks images? unclear deemed clock deviation in 0.31- for the initial data are obtained are incorrect?

Parameters of the last file processed video:
Frame size: 1280x534 pixels
Initial frequency of video frames: 23.976 fps

Define parameters of the monitor
Width: 1360 pixels
Height: 768 pixels
Refresh rate: 60.015 Hz

Data on improving the smoothness of video
Factor increasing smooth: 5:2
The resulting video frames rate: 59.94 fps
After ConvertFps: 60.015 fps

2. because the video card has ati1950 render much larger number of staff - have to change their algorithms upscaling depending on the playback file. uncomfortable.
is it possible to set this selection algorithm based on presets, depending on the size of the input images?
Well, or an automatic reduction algorithm in case of constant drop frame


sorry for bad english - google translate (((

[janos666]

OFF TOPIC

Output in options.

I think he asked about a control panel. I can select the MPC Audio Renderer on the output tab but I can't access any configuration page. Doest it use WASAPI Exclusive by default? (I doubt that.)
How can I configure it?

[yesgrey]

Doest it use WASAPI Exclusive by default? (I doubt that.)
Yes, it does. If WASAPI is not accessible then it uses DirectSound. You can confirm that WASAPI is working if the volume slider does not affect the volume.

Please, any further discussion on the mpc-hc thread. It's just a couple clicks away... ;)

[dansrfe]

Personally speaking madVR is so smooth already I really don't know how much smoother it can get with using anything else. I think Reclock is sort of outdated as of now. Also I did manage to get ffdshow subtitle rendering working and it looks great since I have a automatic resize script to 1080p right before it in the avisynth tab. The only issue of course is the position of the subtitles not being in the black area upon making it fullscreen which will exist until madVR supports subtitle rendering. All in all I'm very happy with madVR as of now. No more changing renderers. Ever :)

EDIT: Fixed subtitle position problem for myself by adding respective borders depending on the source video after resize and now I get perfect subtitle placement as well. :)

[chiwou]

From the logs I still think that the main problem is a too slow decoder. Do you have the same problems with VC-1 and MPEG2 content?

I had the same problems and switched from the PowerDVD Codecs to ffdshow and now the problems are gone, thanks

[dansrfe]

@ madshi

Referring back to this post: http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1441929#post1441929

Can you add an option to manually select BT.601 or BT.709 in madVR since I resize to 1080p with A/R consideration of the original video in ffdshow and output YV12 from it. i want to make sure everything is shown in the correct coefficients and not always in BT.709 with my setup. I understand that you do not allow RGB32 input but if the video were to be properly converted to RGB32 using HQ and Dithering then it should do a proper and smooth conversion right? Of course you know more than I do ini this area. Please share your thoughts on this. Thanks.

[Razoola]

Personally speaking madVR is so smooth already I really don't know how much smoother it can get with using anything else. I think Reclock is sort of outdated as of now.

I would love to take reclock out of my video playback setup but its just not possible to do so and get zero dropped / repeated frames. Im fine for 25fps and 30fps material but 23.976 and 29.970 is the problem which reclock solves given I cannot get exact multiples of these framerates on my panels.

The closest I can get to 23.976 is 24hz and 59hz for 29.970 so without reclock frame problems occure due to madVR needing to do frame rate manipulation to keep sync with audio.

Now if madshi were to add routines to madVR which would hold off on frame drops/repeats until it was done in a place which would almost hide the drop or repeat this would be another matter entirely. I think this has been brought up in the past already but the basic idea is to only allow the frame drop or repeat during a non panning scene or better still during the black screen in a camera or scene change.

[Razoola]

I also have a problem to report with exclusive mode though I am not sure if there is anything that can be done to solve this. I have the nvidia 3D glasses and on my computer panel I use a 120hz refresh rate. When using this refresh rate in fullscreen exclusive mode it causes the nvidia 3D software to kick into 3D mode. There is nowhere in the driver setting to disable this on set programs and the only solution is to disable 3D vision I have found.

[janos666]

@dansrfe

Why do you need to resize with ffdshow?

You can find some resize options in MPC-HC. You can manually select an aspect ratio, or decide if the picture should touch the display borders from in- or outside. FFDShow and madVR can handle the anamorphic aspect ratios as well if you set your FFDShow output settings correctly (send pixel AR info).

[bur]

Does anyone have any idea regarding the subtitle problem I have?

Posting (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1433911#post1433911)

[namaiki]

Does anyone have any idea regarding the subtitle problem I have?

Posting (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?p=1433911#post1433911)
This really has nothing to do with madVR. Perhaps try install a codec pack like... CCCP. Should have support for ASS/SRT and Vobsubs.

I understand that you do not allow RGB32 input but if the video were to be properly converted to RGB32 using HQ and Dithering


Now if you look at the ATI VMR9 and Haali Renderer result, you do see some kind of pattern. It doesn't look that bad on the screenshot, but in motion it's really ugly, because the pattern changes with every frame. The ffdshow result is even worse. The madVR result is exactly how the test pattern is supposed to look. It also stays stable in motion. The patterns in the color gradiants are caused either by too low processing bitdepth or by rounding or truncating the final processing result down to 8bit. The madVR output is only that smooth because it uses proper dithering.
I have observed this same changing pattern that FFDShow video's HQ conversion to RGB32 + Dither produces. It's annoying. Just change your subtitles to be less susceptible to artifacts from scaling. On the other hand, I however wouldn't mind being able to manually select BT.601 or BT.709 for some of my rips which I downscaled from 720p down to 480p and for some reason they look really tinted orange (could really be caused by a lot of things).

[bur]

This really has nothing to do with madVR. Perhaps try install a codec pack like... CCCP. Should have support for ASS/SRT and Vobsubs.You sure it has nothing to do with MadVR? EVR and VMR display the subtitles just fine.

What's strange is that I have another MKV with internal subs and those work with MadVR.

So maybe the problem is the subtitle format. The not-working MKV has VobSub subtitles, the working one uses ASS.

[namaiki]

The not-working MKV has VobSub subtitles, the working one uses ASS.

I've had DVD VobSubs (yellow and black text) working fine with madVR using VSFilter, at the very least.

[leeperry]

I however wouldn't mind being able to manually select BT.601 or BT.709 for some of my rips which I downscaled from 720p down to 480p and for some reason they look really tinted orange
you may have wanted to transcode them from 709 to 601 to make them compliant in the first place:
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601",clamp=0,opt=0)
You can always use it in ffdshow in realtime, or upscale it to HD and it'll be decoded as 709...or make a LUT to convert from 709 to 601(more accurate than ColorMatrix).

[dansrfe]

@ madshi

At the minimum I think my main problem would be solved if there was an option to select BT.601 or BT.709 in madVR manually and preferably with some kind of hotkey association facility. Also like in EVR-CP can you add the feature in madVR to display what option has been selected for a split second in the upper right corner and for movie related stuff such as chapters, duration, etc. to be displayed in the upper left corner.

Also I had another idea. Is there a way you can add the feature for madVR to somehow connect to ffdshow to find out the input video's resolution coming into ffdshow? That would solve the problem of resizing to 1080p in ffdshow's AviSynth tab and consequently madVR determining the wrong colorimetry to use.

Edit: btw, I should have asked this before, how does madVR determine the colorimetery in the first place?

[namaiki]

you may have wanted to transcode them from 709 to 601 to make them compliant in the first place:
ColorMatrix(mode="Rec.709->Rec.601",clamp=0,opt=0)
You can always use it in ffdshow, or upscale it to HD and it'll be decoded as 709...or make a LUT to convert from 709 to 601(more accurate than ColorMatrix).

I'm really not that smart, and I don't want to re-encode/transcode those, but from what you are telling me, it seems that I should be able to do it on the fly.

Anyways, I'll try that when I get back home from work. (Just about to go out! :/)

[dansrfe]

Never mind about the 1080p resizing in avisynth. madVR's resizing set to spline 3 taps gives me an excellent result which I'm very happy with. Now off to figuring out how to get proper placement and 1920 x 1080 resolution for subtitles through ffdshow.

[XPC]

Madshi,

I have been testing MAdvr renderer for DVB-t live TV using MPC-HC and the results are really great. I just wanted to let you know some issues that I noticed:

1- When switching channels, at some point the mpc-hc hangs after rendering audio of the new channel for few seconds while the last frame of the previous channel frozen. I get this in two different machines, the first one only when switching between different types of stream (MPEG-2 to h.264 and then switching back to MPEG-2) while the other (an i7 machine with GTs260 card on W7 64 bits) happens even just switching only between MPEG-2 channels (usually at the second or third switch). Could you please take a look to the logs so we can diagnose what is happening?

2- AR and resolution: when the connection between the Demux and the decoder is established, the information on AR and resolution is taken initially from the container to allow the connection. AR dinamically changes for each program and resolution could also be changed when switching channels. This information is taken from the contents by the decoder (some decoders better than others...). Madvr currently takes the initial information and does not allow any changes in AR dinamically like EVR-CP does. Do you think that this could be addressed in the future?

3- When opendevice, from time to time I get no image. Taking a look into the log files, I saw that this happens when, for any reason, two instances of Madvr are opened at the same time. I know that you have this in your to-do list, but I think the problem is more on the mpc-hc side and fixing MadvR just hides the real problem. This is something that was addressed sometime ago in mpc-hc but from time to time fails. I don't think you should do anything about this, but I believe this could happen not only for DVB-t but also when playing any files or DVDs with MPC-HC, so you just need to be aware.

You will find attached some logs here: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?9t42004445lm9oj

Thanks!
XPC

[Darth Viorel]

Never mind about the 1080p resizing in avisynth. madVR's resizing set to spline 3 taps gives me an excellent result which I'm very happy with. Now off to figuring out how to get proper placement and 1920 x 1080 resolution for subtitles through ffdshow.


You can change the aspect ratio to 16:9 in ffdshow by adding black borders. Then the subtitles can be placed wherever you want.

[dansrfe]

Yes the placement issue can be solved but the subtitle resolution problem cannot be solved unless and until I resize to 1920 x 1080 inside ffdshow before subtitle processing in ffdshow.

[bur]

I've had DVD VobSubs (yellow and black text) working fine with madVR using VSFilter, at the very least.Is VSFilter needed to play VobSubs with MadVR? If so, this will be the problem because I don't have VSFilter installed.

So is it a known problem that MadVR can't render VobSub without VSFilter? I never heard that before.

[namaiki]

So is it a known problem that MadVR can't render VobSub without VSFilter? I never heard that before.

No, madVR works fine with the FFDShow Video subtitle renderer as well. Make sure that you have your stuff set up correctly, for instance make sure that FFDShow Video Decoder will only output in YV12.

I have, however, found that VSFilter/DirectVobSub produces nicer looking subtitles than FFDShow Video's internal subtitle renderer. IMO VSFilter's subtitles look less blurry/less shifting of colours.

[Mark_A_W]

VSFilter/DirectVobSub produces identical subs to the original Bluray. So just watch bluray conversions ;)

[namaiki]

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6136/vsfilter.png
http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/50/ffdshow.png

Similar, but not the same. I don't know which one is producing 'technically' correct output.

The 'u' in 'yourself' has a bit of blur on it's right edge in the FFDShow Video decoder output compared to VSFilter's.

[leeperry]

The 'u' in 'yourself' has a bit of blur on it's right edge in the FFDShow Video decoder output compared to VSFilter's.
when outputting YV12, ffdshow blurs the subs and darkens them... that's just the way it is.

[SantinoSan]

I thought madVR could not render subs...how are you guys getting subs to show?

[namaiki]

Use either VSFilter/DirectVobSub or FFDShow Video Decoder's internal subtitle renderer to render subtitles. madVR itself does not render subs.

If you use DirectVobSub, you will have to add DirectVobSub(auto-loading version) under External Filters in MPC-HC options.

Even easier (if you don't know how to register filters), is to install the latest CCCP beta (cccp-project.net/wiki/index.php?title=CCCP_Beta_Testing_Guide) which will configure everything for you except for installing madVR. Make sure to use the copy of MPC-HC that CCCP installs, or as above you will have to configure the subtitle renderer anyways.

[SantinoSan]

I used MPCs renderer for PGS subs in my MKVs and it worked nicely when using EVR, but when I selected madVR I could no longer see the subtitles. I haven't tried the ffdshow filter in a while, I just assumed I would not see them. I guess I misunderstood.

[dansrfe]

Last piece of the puzzle is subtitle support and image saving features. The renderer is the video rendering God if these two things get completed. :)

[makakam]

The drops you're talking about were caused by your decoder/CPU being too slow. The decoder queue was down to 2/8 when the drops occurred. Because of that madVR was not able to render the video frames in time for presentation...
I can't understand what may be causing it as before everything was just fine. My CPU is Core2Duo E7400. The only thing that changed is that I started using ffdshow for HD audio bitstream (I used ac3filter for dts before) Can it be the reason?

[bur]

Regarding the subtitle problem I had. If anyone else ever encounters the same:

VobSub subtitles only work with MadVR if you use DirectVobSub/VSFilter. You can't use ffdshow to view the subtitles. SSA and other formats work with ffdshow/MadVR. If you use EVR/VMR you also don't need DirectVobSub. But for VobSubs on MadVR you need DirectVobSub.

Madshi, is that anything that can be easily fixed?

[janos666]

Idea / Feature suggestion : Display homogenization
For example, we measure 12 points on the screen, interpolate a map (like a 3D surface model from survey points) and apply some compensations. (EIZO have been doing it internally by the controller for their high-end displays.)
I am not talking about full colorimetric compensations here, but luminance differences only.
Or... but it would be very hard to do: We make a highres digital photo of the display and do the map from it. (It could allow some colorimetric compensations as well. But I think that would be superfluous overkill...)

What do you think? How does it sounds: hard or easy, good or useless idea?

[Alexander01]

I'm trying to get madVR working with ffdshow. I unchecked all ouput colorspaces in ffdshow video decoder except YV12. But when I open a MKV file with Windows Media Player it uses ffdshow DXVA video decoder instead of the normal ffdshow video decoder to decode the file. I don't see the madVR icon either. Please don't tell me I can't use WMP/WMC with ffdshow+madVR ?

[DigitalLF]

Alexander01: what would the point be to use WMP/WMC with MadVR? use a better program like Media Player Classic - Home Cinema. (and no you can not use madVR with WMP/WMC)

[Alexander01]

I use WMC for watching TV, so it would be nice if i can also watch movies in WMC while using the madVR renderer with the ffdshow decoder. The madVR renderer is clearly sharper to me.

[Neeto]

I use WMC for watching TV, so it would be nice if i can also watch movies in WMC while using the madVR renderer with the ffdshow decoder. The madVR renderer is clearly sharper to me.

I do this by using My Movies.
It can call an external player and I use MPC-HC with madVR which is brilliant. Just waiting on the DVD fix before it goes main stream around the house.

Also looking at use PotPlayer with a Media Center skin instead of MPC-HC to make it look more like WMC to improve the wife approval factor.