madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[Warner306]

Doesn't it defeat the purpose if I force LAV to use copy-back instead of native?

It works though (thanks) but performance is horrible, got dropped frames now.

Try going back to DXVA2 copy-back. Does it get any better? If so, forget about D3D11 as it's unnecessary and native mode doesn't work for you.

There may be a bottleneck with your GPU (only 8 lanes) combined with a lack of PCIe express bandwidth (v2.0 or lower) in copy-back mode. I've run into one other user with this problem. I don't know how he installed his graphics card. He may have installed it in a x4 slot. Native and copy-back shouldn't have radically different performance.

[SamuriHL]

I did bitstream but without using reclock, just direct audio device and lav filters, nothing else.

I will watch some movie tomorrow without bitstream just PCM but i gave a tried alrdy for few minutes and still had some occasional drops.

Fascinating. With JRiver's video option turned on my issues went away using PCM. I think it's similar to how ReClock works afaik. In any case I've watched a few movies now with this setup and it's working extremely well for me.

[maxkolonko123]

Fascinating. With JRiver's video option turned on my issues went away using PCM. I think it's similar to how ReClock works afaik. In any case I've watched a few movies now with this setup and it's working extremely well for me.


For now i droped reclock and im checking internal wasapi in mpc hc, after few quick checks i didnt notice any difference between PCM and bitsream with wasapi, but tbh i didnt had time to watch movie from start to end, i just base my opinion on switching movie to FSE and compare frame repeat time, in both situation it's oscilate around same time.

[zaemon]

Try going back to DXVA2 copy-back. Does it get any better? If so, forget about D3D11 as it's unnecessary and native mode doesn't work for you.

There may be a bottleneck with your GPU (only 8 lanes) combined with a lack of PCIe express bandwidth (v2.0 or lower) in copy-back mode. I've run into one other user with this problem. I don't know how he installed his graphics card. He may have installed it in a x4 slot. Native and copy-back shouldn't have radically different performance.



Thanks. I’m back to DXVA2 copy-back, works flawlessly.

My GTX 1080 is plugged in a very old motherboard (X58 chipset, PCIe 2.0) so it makes sense. MB upgrade is scheduled but not a priority ATM.

[el Filou]

Motherboard upgrade shouldn't change anything to D3D11 Native problems. Sounds like an NVIDIA driver issue.
Can't you use the previous driver?
What's your OS? If it's Windows 10 you could also try Windowed D3D11 presentation mode, I've never had any issue with it and a 1050 Ti even when using D3D11 Native decoding in LAV at the same time.
Native D3D11 is nice for 4K (as long as you don't use black bar detection) because it gives you better performance than DXVA2 Copyback without the lower chroma quality of DXVA2 Native.

[Warner306]

Motherboard upgrade shouldn't change anything to D3D11 Native problems. Sounds like an NVIDIA driver issue.
Can't you use the previous driver?
What's your OS? If it's Windows 10 you could also try Windowed D3D11 presentation mode, I've never had any issue with it and a 1050 Ti even when using D3D11 Native decoding in LAV at the same time.
Native D3D11 is nice for 4K (as long as you don't use black bar detection) because it gives you better performance than DXVA2 Copyback without the lower chroma quality of DXVA2 Native.

I thought the performance improvement was small at best? How big of an improvement are you getting?

So why doesn't D3D11 copy-back work for him? It sounds like a bandwidth problem but DVXA2 copy-back works fine.

Native doesn't seem to be selecting his GPU, but the two copy-back modes are wildly-different.

[maxkolonko123]

So does D3D11 only works in win10 or win7 is fine too?

[nevcairiel]

I thought the performance improvement was small at best? How big of an improvement are you getting?

Its minimal over DXVA2-Native, but DXVA2-Native results in degraded quality, so its often not considered an alternative. If you're talking DXVA2-CB compared to D3D11 Native and 4K 10-bit content on a weak CPU with a weak memory system, it can make up the ability to even play it.
The improvements might be even better if madshi rewrites madVR in D3D11 eventually (its primarily still D3D9 on the inside).

So does D3D11 only works in win10 or win7 is fine too?

Only on 8.1 or 10. Not on 7.

[SamuriHL]

For now i droped reclock and im checking internal wasapi in mpc hc, after few quick checks i didnt notice any difference between PCM and bitsream with wasapi, but tbh i didnt had time to watch movie from start to end, i just base my opinion on switching movie to FSE and compare frame repeat time, in both situation it's oscilate around same time.

I hope you get it working! I was getting irritated with it and decided my time was better spent watching a movie without dropped frames than any continued effort. I'm a bitstreaming fan but ultimately the audio is going to get decoded somewhere and IMO it's not worth the aggravation for such little gain. If I could have made it work in the time I gave it I'd have been happy. I may give it another shot after I finish my current project of setting up a NAS for all my media storage. I need to revisit my madvr settings, too, at some point.

[Warner306]

Its minimal over DXVA2-Native, but DXVA2-Native results in degraded quality, so its often not considered an alternative. If you're talking DXVA2-CB compared to D3D11 Native and 4K 10-bit content on a weak CPU with a weak memory system, it can make up the ability to even play it.
The improvements might be even better if madshi rewrites madVR in D3D11 eventually (its primarily still D3D9 on the inside).



Only on 8.1 or 10. Not on 7.

I was thinking more in terms of a user who is able to decode via DXVA2 copy-back (like the original poster) and wants to use D3D11 Native. What kind of performance improvements would be seen in madVR at 4K?

And what kind of CPU/RAM combination fails at copy-back with adequate VRAM? I thought it had to be an issue with PCIe speed with the GPU having to transfer so much data back-and-forth, rapidly? Some modern CPUs are not up to the task?

[Calolo]

Hello,

I am using MPC-HC, madVR and LAV filters for my HTPC (iGPU HD 630).
I have disabled all image correction settings in Intel drivers.

Setting decoding to D3D11 native result in an average rendering time of 25ms, mostly stable even with light scaling settings. Using D3D9, average rendering was much better (5ms) but with max rendering time > 25ms.
Should I have a faster rendering with D3D11?

I have not been able to watch "The world in HDR" 4K 60fps 10bit demo:
http://4kmedia.org/the-world-in-hdr-uhd-4k-demo/
Even using bilinear scaling, on my 1080p TV the rendering is very slow. I tried with EVR, the video is smooth but HDR is not converted to SDR. Maybe the madVR HDR>SDR conversion is too heavy to be handled by the iGPU?

Using the HDMI port on Intel iGPU does not allow to output 10bit because the drivers always dither to 8bit (I checked that with my AVR reporting 4:4:4 8bit signal).
https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/white-papers/deep-color-support-graphics-paper.pdf
Could we have an option in madVR to force 12bit output?

Thank you very much.

[Asmodian]

No, you should not have faster rendering with D3D11 than D3D9.

Yes, others have also reported that the 630 is too slow for good quality HDR to SDR. Have you tried changing madVR's HDR options?

madVR will not be able to force the output bit depth, the GPU has to be the one in control.

[BetA13]

just a quick question...(yeah, i know kinda strange question but i want to make an icon for MadVR, so i need some input)

I just wanted to ask, what does teh "VR" stand for in MadVR?
I want to make an ICON for MadVR and teh Media Player using it, i thought it would have a nice touch to it, seeing it in the taskbar and teh player icon..

And to be honest, the VR reminds me to much of "Virtual Reality" so i wanted to know what it stands for.. its just an non related question, haha..But it would help ,me on the icon.

THX, and greetings...

Keep it up madshi and HAPPY EASTERN!!!

[maxkolonko123]

I hope you get it working! I was getting irritated with it and decided my time was better spent watching a movie without dropped frames than any continued effort. I'm a bitstreaming fan but ultimately the audio is going to get decoded somewhere and IMO it's not worth the aggravation for such little gain. If I could have made it work in the time I gave it I'd have been happy. I may give it another shot after I finish my current project of setting up a NAS for all my media storage. I need to revisit my madvr settings, too, at some point.

Hopefully one day yeah :D

[Asmodian]

I just wanted to ask, what does teh "VR" stand for in MadVR?


Video Renderer :)

[Ver Greeneyes]

By the way, which madVR options can I use to reduce GPU memory usage? I assume the GPU queue size is relevant and the number of frames to be presented in advance, but what about "trade quality for performance" options? Does "store custom pixel shader results in 16bit buffer instead of 32bit" help a lot?

[huhn]

if you are using a custom pixel shader maybe but it's most likely very little.

[tyrindor]

New issue just popped up for me. Whenever I play a video and fullscreen it (exclusive fullscreen enabled), there's a ~3 second stutter, then it plays for half a second followed by another ~3 second stutter. Audio/Video is still playing in real time, as it just skips ahead after. Happens even on an SSD, and disabling exclusive fullscreen fixes it but then I can't get 3D/HDR correctly.

Only thing I can think of is I upgraded to Win10 Spring Creative Update which went RTM a few days ago.

[ryrynz]

First thing I'd do is uninstall and reinstall graphics drivers, maybe try DDU as well if normal uninstall doesn't change anything.

[tyrindor]

First thing I'd do is uninstall and reinstall graphics drivers, maybe try DDU as well if normal uninstall doesn't change anything.

Sadly, no go. Spring Update hits either today or next tuesday, so if it's caused by that we're gonna see posts soon. I don't believe I changed anything other than that.

[clsid]

There have been plenty of people with stuttering issues on previous W10 versions as well.

Several tweaks that can help:
* Nvidia power settings -> Select "Adaptive"
* Right-click on video player .exe > Properties > Compatibility > Disable fullscreen optimizations
* Disable Game bar/DVR function in Windows
* Clear standby memory (https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/7a0763/standby_memory_issue_causing_stutters_on_creators/)
* Experiment with he VSync settings in your driver
* More (https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/1004600/geforce-drivers/all-games-stuttering-with-fps-drops-since-windows-10-creators-update/1/)

[mogli]

madVR FSE works just fine for me with RS4. The first time it enters FSE the info center informs me that no messages will be displayed while "playing this game" which seems to cause a tiny additional delay when switching. However movies play just fine and stutter free after that.

[SamuriHL]

Yea, I'm on the spring update, as well, and have no issues like that. But I will say that you REALLY should reinstall the graphics driver after a windows upgrade. I did have some issues before I did that.

[mparade]

Hello,

Is option passthrough "HDR metadata to the display" working with 1080p sources as well? I converted my BD-s using a "8-bit bt.709 to 10-bit HDR" script but the reencoded videos rendered by madVR, according to my LG C6V, are not HDR videos and the colours are completely off, the movies are unwatchable. However, there is no problem with the UHD HDR videos reencoded, my TV automatically switches to HDR mode when they are being played.

Has anyone met such a problem so far?
Any help would be appreciated.

[sneaker_ger]

It should work with any resolution. Show madvr OSD (ctrl+j) and upload a small sample of the file. My guess is you ran the source through the SDR->HDR script but didn't set any HDR flags in the encoded bitstream/container so madvr doesn't know the source is HDR. Or are the colors correct when you let madvr convert HDR->SDR? Then try to output at 4K resolution. Then your TV cannot know that the source is 1080p.

[maxkolonko123]

So after few tests with my issue, still some dropped frames occur, no matter if its without reclock or with, no matter if i play movie with mpc-hc wasapi pcm, bitstream, still same problem. What is odd to me, no matter how i play my movie, i mean sound setting, custom display mode, no matter which mode i choose, for example EDID, CVT CRT, GTF etc I always end up on same number for frame drop/ repeats expected every 4.40min, doesnt matter if custom mode says 1day or 4hours always after going into FSE and cpl minutes of playing movie i get to same number, isn't this strange? that no matter what settings i choose it's always those 4.40-30min expected drop?

On the funny side, even after those drops happening i literally cant notice it while watching movie, before every single drop for me was like small jitter or so, now mowie play smooth just those drops are on osd in madvr. Maybe i should tweak settings in scalling algorithms?

[Asmodian]

Are your rendering times good? If so don't mess with scaling options.

It sounds like you are not actually using the custom modes, this has happened to others as well. Does madVR's report of the refresh rate stay the same too? The decimal points should change as you tune a custom resolution. Getting the Nvidia drivers to actually switch to the custom mode can be tricky, try driver reinstalls with the start fresh option enabled... :(

[mparade]

It should work with any resolution. Show madvr OSD (ctrl+j) and upload a small sample of the file. My guess is you ran the source through the SDR->HDR script but didn't set any HDR flags in the encoded bitstream/container so madvr doesn't know the source is HDR. Or are the colors correct when you let madvr convert HDR->SDR? Then try to output at 4K resolution. Then your TV cannot know that the source is 1080p.

Yes. I used SDR to HDR script and StaxRip automatically inserted all the necessary HDR infos on the x265 command line, supposedly. I am always upscaling 1080p to 2160p in madVR so my HDR TV receives 4K signal all the time.

I will come back with the required infos shortly.

Thank you very much for the help in advance!

[maxkolonko123]

Are your rendering times good? If so don't mess with scaling options.

It sounds like you are not actually using the custom modes, this has happened to others as well. Does madVR's report of the refresh rate stay the same too? The decimal points should change as you tune a custom resolution. Getting the Nvidia drivers to actually switch to the custom mode can be tricky, try driver reinstalls with the start fresh option enabled... :(

In FSE :
Average rendering 26ish mms
Max stats rendering 30ish mms

I kinda dont get what you mean by decimal points change, here is the screenshot but in windowed mode due to taking screenshot https://imgur.com/a/jmCXx so maybe explain me on what numbers should i look.

I've added some more pictures to imgur from madvr custom mode settings, maybe you will notice if it's right or no.

After changing custom mode i did always restart my pc like it said there to do.

[Warner306]

I've added some more pictures to imgur from madvr custom mode settings, maybe you will notice if it's right or no.

After changing custom mode i did always restart my pc like it said there to do.

It looks like you've entered the wrong display modes, as you're not upscaling to 3840 x 2160p.

The display modes should start with: 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p50, 2160p59 and 2160p60.

[maxkolonko123]

It looks like you've entered the wrong display modes, as you're not upscaling to 3840 x 2160p.

The display modes should start with: 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p50, 2160p59 and 2160p60.

No no, its fine but when you do screenshot in mpc-hc it automatically switched off fullscreen mode and like you can see on picture it says windowed mode, so i think thats why you cant see any upscale going on, in fullscreen mode it's scale 0,0,1920x1380 -> 0,42,3840,2118

[mparade]

upload a small sample of the file. My guess is you ran the source through the SDR->HDR script but didn't set any HDR flags in the encoded bitstream/container so madvr doesn't know the source is HDR.

Hello,

Sample uploaded here:

http://www.mammutmail.com/hu/download/7f2c9a2e6daf5f9a646a978629f54072

[sneaker_ger]

You have set matrix coefficients and color primaries to BT.709 (1 & 1) and left transfer characteristics undefined (2). Usually for HDR those are set to bt2020nc (9), bt2020 (9) and smpte2084 (16) respectively. (I haven't checked the actual content of your sample, only the flags.)
http://x265.readthedocs.io/en/default/cli.html#vui-video-usability-information-options

[maxkolonko123]

Hello,

Sample uploaded here:

http://www.mammutmail.com/hu/download/7f2c9a2e6daf5f9a646a978629f54072


Shows as a 10bit but doesnt switch my tv into HDR mode, like proper hdr movies are

[mclingo]

found a bug with D3D11, on my system anyway. I have an issue with MADVR where when you play a 3D movie (1080p) and you stop it I lose HDMI handshake going from 3D 1080p back to 4k 2160p. It does this every time. The workaround is to disable MADVR refresh rate switching and use your movies players switching instead, i've had this working for ages and its been fine up until recently.

recently I switched from DXVA copy back to D3D11 decoding as I found it was about 20% faster than DXVA on my system, what I had forgotten to test was 3D though which I tested today. Whats happening now is the same as what happens in MADVR, when I stop a 3D movie I get HDMI loss which cant be gained back easily without resetting it, I use HDMION.

If I switch back to DXVA copyback the problem goes away, I think its interesting that now both MADVR refresh rate switching and now D3D11 with MPC or KODI DS refresh rate switching causes the same problem, HDMI loss coming from out of a 1080p 3D connection back to a 2160 2d desktop.

Its very possible its connected issues with FSE which is required on most systems for 3D playback.

Both issues happen with with AMD RX cards, i havent tested my NVIDA 1050 but this also had HDMI handshake issue coming out of 3D for me too.

Another workaround would be to run your PC desktop in 1080p but who wants to do that when you've got a 4k display, this also explains why most people dont see this, there are still fewer people with 4k displays than 1080p ones.

I'll post this on both MADVR and LAV forums as the issues seems to be connected now.

[mparade]

You have set matrix coefficients and color primaries to BT.709 (1 & 1) and left transfer characteristics undefined (2). Usually for HDR those are set to bt2020nc (9), bt2020 (9) and smpte2084 (16) respectively. (I haven't checked the actual content of your sample, only the flags.)
http://x265.readthedocs.io/en/default/cli.html#vui-video-usability-information-options

Thank you very much for the help. All the flags are set by StaxRip automatically. I did not touch them not to make any mess. According to the author of the script:

# Convert Bluray Video (BT709) to 10bit 400nits (MaxFALL) High Dynamic Range Video.
# In some scenes, HDR output of this script saves as much as 50% bitrate in x265 CRF mode and doubles the quality in x265 2pass CBR mode.
# You must have a HDR compliant TV to play the output file.
# Script is 100% compliant with current HDR standards and has been tested extensively on HDR compliant TVs.
# Do NOT modify the script. Input and output are guaranteed to look 100% identical with default script settings. All x265 HDR switches are automatically set by Staxrip.
# Current UHD Bluray and HDR TV specifications only support exactly 400nits MaxFALL. Not more, not less. Standards will not change for many years.
# Do NOT change MaxFALL. Hardware players and TVs will not correct/scale it for you. White level and brightness will be off.
# MaxFALL and MaxCLL are both equal to 400nits. You can not independently set them.
# Do not change the gamma extraction to a value other than 2.2 specified in the script. It is NOT related to the gamma correction values used by the studios when mastering Bluray video. It is NOT related to the gamma settings of your monitor/TV either.
# We are extracting 2.2 gamma only because the exact same amount will be added back by SMPTE 2084. Not more, not less.
# SMPTE 2084 is a specialized HDR perceptual quantizer that already has built in gamma encoding that is exactly equivalent to a 2.2 pure gamma function.

[mparade]

Shows as a 10bit but doesnt switch my tv into HDR mode

The same as here. Neither my LG TV nor madVR treats it as a hdr movie. I have to test it more thoroughly with x265 or leave it as is, in SDR.

[sneaker_ger]

Last line of the script:
--colorprim bt709 --colormatrix bt709 --transfer smpte-st-2084
I assume that is the problem because the x265 command-line changed some time in the past. Now it must be "--transfer smpte2084" or simply "--transfer 16".

[mparade]

I will test it and report back! Thank you very much!

[DragonQ]

Is diffuse white set to 100?
Yes. I misspoke before about the image being washed out, what I meant was: if I set it the display's peak nits to 100 it looks closer to the SDR version of the film. If I set it to 200 nits, for example, the image is significantly darker.

[Warner306]

Yes. I misspoke before about the image being washed out, what I meant was: if I set it the display's peak nits to 100 it looks closer to the SDR version of the film. If I set it to 200 nits, for example, the image is significantly darker.

That's normal behaviour. You can tweak it to your tastes. There is no exact formula for getting perfect HDR -> SDR or HDR -> HDR tone mapping. I don't think diffuse white would make it any better; it would probably make it worse.

[tyrindor]

found a bug with D3D11, on my system anyway. I have an issue with MADVR where when you play a 3D movie (1080p) and you stop it I lose HDMI handshake going from 3D 1080p back to 4k 2160p. It does this every time. The workaround is to disable MADVR refresh rate switching and use your movies players switching instead, i've had this working for ages and its been fine up until recently.

recently I switched from DXVA copy back to D3D11 decoding as I found it was about 20% faster than DXVA on my system, what I had forgotten to test was 3D though which I tested today. Whats happening now is the same as what happens in MADVR, when I stop a 3D movie I get HDMI loss which cant be gained back easily without resetting it, I use HDMION.

If I switch back to DXVA copyback the problem goes away, I think its interesting that now both MADVR refresh rate switching and now D3D11 with MPC or KODI DS refresh rate switching causes the same problem, HDMI loss coming from out of a 1080p 3D connection back to a 2160 2d desktop.

Its very possible its connected issues with FSE which is required on most systems for 3D playback.

Both issues happen with with AMD RX cards, i havent tested my NVIDA 1050 but this also had HDMI handshake issue coming out of 3D for me too.

Another workaround would be to run your PC desktop in 1080p but who wants to do that when you've got a 4k display, this also explains why most people dont see this, there are still fewer people with 4k displays than 1080p ones.

I'll post this on both MADVR and LAV forums as the issues seems to be connected now.

Sounds like an issue i've been having lately on a Titan XP, complete HDMI loss after playback of HDR/3D sometimes. I'm using D3D11 as well. May just need to go back to the tried and true copy-back.

[mclingo]

Sounds like an issue i've been having lately on a Titan XP, complete HDMI loss after playback of HDR/3D sometimes. I'm using D3D11 as well. May just need to go back to the tried and true copy-back.

I tried the last three AMD drivers, no difference, its defo an issue with D3D11, soon as i switched back to COPYBACK all my black screens stopped.

it still takes a few seconds to drop in and out of mode but it always comes back now.

[brazen1]

Using D3D11 Native FSE for stereoscopic with NVidia. Using D3D11 Native windowed for HDR with NVidia. I get none of the bugs you guys are reporting. Desktop and KODI resolutions are both at 2160p and match refresh rates set in madVR for external players and in KODI for when videoplayer is used. Use fullscreen window in KODI is enabled fwiw. 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60 No idea why you set DSPlayer up completely the opposite but this may be why one problem leads to another which leads to another which leads to another? These problems are not video cards or madVR or LAV Filters imo.

[tyrindor]

Using D3D11 Native FSE for stereoscopic with NVidia. Using D3D11 Native windowed for HDR with NVidia. I get none of the bugs you guys are reporting. Desktop and KODI resolutions are both at 2160p and match refresh rates set in madVR for external players and in KODI for when videoplayer is used. Use fullscreen window in KODI is enabled fwiw. 2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p25, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60 No idea why you set DSPlayer up completely the opposite but this may be why one problem leads to another which leads to another which leads to another? These problems are not video cards or madVR or LAV Filters imo.

Just because someone has an issue and someone else doesn't, doesn't mean it's a user or setup error. I'm doing the same things as you just described, and still get signal loss after HDR/3D playback every now and then like him. I must power cycle my receiver to regain video.

HDMI is a fragile interface that can have handshaking issues for one person, and none for the other, even on identical hardware, cables, and software. Not even the same hardware is created equal, there can be batch exclusive issues of the same model numbers. Computers are way too complex to think "I don't have this issue, so there is no issue or they are doing something wrong".

[brazen1]

Think what you want. You are doing something different. Hence, the problems labeled bugs.

[Asmodian]

I have noticed that receivers are much more finicky. I suspect most differences are due to receiver and displays, not user or config errors.

Driver weirdness is real too, I have had reinstalling the same GPU drivers again solve issues way too many times.

[BetA13]

Video Renderer :)

:thanks:

i knew it, it was just way too late for me, my brain couldnt function anymore, haha..
Of course its Video Renderer...im so stupid..

Thanks.

[maxkolonko123]

I have noticed that receivers are much more finicky. I suspect most differences are due to receiver and displays, not user or config errors.

Driver weirdness is real too, I have had reinstalling the same GPU drivers again solve issues way too many times.

Yeah i think my next step will be clean reinstall of gpu drivers and see if this help with my issues, hopefully yeah. Do you know how i can check if my custom mode is actually in use?

[Warner306]

I was able to use a perfect pixel clock after reinstalling my drivers. Previously, the best I could do was one frame drop every 19 minutes.

I ran DDU and reinstalled the drivers (which was scary because the GPU was not detected and I had to look at Windows Update to see the drivers were downloading).

My stock clock improved from one frame drop every three minutes to one frame drop every 12 minutes. And, as stated, custom modes would now accept more modes.

So I think a lot of problems with custom modes comes down to improper driver installation.