madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[buletti]

Specs: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 @3GHz, ATI HD5770 w/ CCC 11.6, W7 x64 SP1
Video chain: LAV Splitter, FFDShow decoder, AviSynth (LimitedSharpenFaster + MVTools-based temporal denoising), madVR (upscaling: chroma softcubic 80, luma lanczos 4 taps), MPC-HC

mode 1 decoding + madVR processing (scaling 720p to 1080p): 42 fps
mode 2 decoding + madVR processing (no scaling): 42 fps
mode 3 decoding only: 44 fps
mode 4 madVR processing only (scaling 720p to 1080p): 200 fps
mode 5 madVR processing only (no scaling): 335 fps

[madshi]

@TheElix, you double click on "activate debug mode.bat". Then you reproduce the problem. Then you close the media player. Then on your desktop there'll be a new file called "madVR - log.txt". Zip it and upload it somewhere. Try to keep the log file as small as possible, though. Which means: If you don't succeed to reproduce the problem quickly, close the media player, delete the log, and try again. Once you reproduced the problem, let it stay frozen for about 5 seconds. Then close the media player. Don't unfreeze video, if you can avoid it. Thanks.

[tschi]

:thanks: for the new version, I will test it asap :)

[alph@]

Benchemark mode 1,with m2ts of 1920 /1080, it is said (1920/1080 to 1919/1079 scaling) it is normal to have 1919/1079
(lav splitter,ffdshow(postprocessing),reclock,potplayer,diavc)

when I chose to use the RGB 32 output of ffdshow, I have a green screen, with evr I do not have this problem.
http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/f0dcd50d24cd8ff7ef44ba6b9f2bb0757e1a660a37452dacaa2597db400ecbb56g.jpg

[madshi]

The benchmark wants to measure speed for both unscaled and scaled situations. So one of the modes scales 1920x1080 to 1919x1079. One of the other modes does not do that. That's what the multiple modes are for.

[CruNcher]

madVR consumes CPU cycles when video is paused (checked with Process Explorer). That didn't happen before with 0.65. It's not a whole lot, just less than 10% on a 2.4GHz K8 but still "weird". :)

Here's my setup:
MPC-HC rev3267, latest Haali Media Splitter, Radeon HD4670, CAT11.6 on Win7 (32-bit)

Though be careful when using such applications while you playback they can be the reason for frame drops :(

@Madshi
you should really make user finaly aware in the readme of your distribution or maybe somekind of FAQ that 3rd party applications that are bad written running in the background can impact Video Rendering Results on Windows for example running a application that using timers continuously (especially @ a to high frequency like >500 ms) can result in frame drops the same way to heavy Hardware pooling can (and even not heavy hardware pooling can cause frame drops depending on the overall system configuration) so people should try to avoid such background applications when using MadVR especially in non Exclusive Mode. (Though this is even not only a MadVR problem but a General Windows problem with reliability of Video Playback and General Multimedia results, though I'm also pretty sure you aware of these Windows issues working mostly low level, so why not make user aware and give them directly a hint on installation where problems might arise from and to turn of all such background activity and recheck results first ? :))

Im talking especially about user who leave software like Aida,Process Explorer,Rivatuner (Msi Afterburner) (whereby a excellent Kernel Driver, imho the best coded one for Windows in terms of stability even @ high frequency) Process Hacker,CPU-Z,GPU-Z and other such measurement applications additional to Microsofts own telemetry overhead running and wondering why they lose frames randomly over time (and especially if you add the factor of dynamic frequency switching like C&Q and Speedstep to this, and the newest hit Core Parking).
True with NT 6 and the Multimedia Scheduler it became better but it's still a issue and especially with the whole UI GPU Move and non real preemptive multitasking it's still not as reliable as many would wish on Windows.

[WontonNoodle]

what is the difference between the

"disable calibration controls for this display" and "this display is already calibrated" option regarding what it does to the video picture?

[madshi]

what is the difference between the

"disable calibration controls for this display" and "this display is already calibrated" option regarding what it does to the video picture?
"disable calibration controls for this display" means that madVR will no do any primaries/gamut conversion. If you activate "this display is already calibrated", madVR lets you specify which primaries your display is calibrated to. Then madVR will convert any source to match your display's primaries.

[cyberbeing]

Two *very* different purposes. So again: What are users looking for when using a brightness & contrast control? Do they want to use it for (1) or (2)?

BTW, Photoshop's new method seems to be some kind of gamma tweaking. So if you enable gamma processing in madVR, you can probably achieve somewhat similar results to the Photoshop contrast tweak, I guess...

All users should want the method which doesn't introduce clipping. When calibrating your display, clipping off a large portion of your shadows and highlights (legacy/Poynton/traditional method) is the last thing you want to do. Everything that gets clipped in the video is lost forever. If you want to introduce a black level control it should be labeled as such, and be separate from brightness control.

Photoshop's, new method is basically a brightness/contrast control done via curves which introduces no clipping and maintains the dynamic range of the image. This would be what someone would want if they are calibrating their display, since it's similar to how a meter calibrates the video lut on your GPU. You could think of it as a gamma modification applied to shadows/highlights with brightness, and reducing the difference between shadows/highlights with contrast.

[madshi]

All users should want the method which doesn't introduce clipping.
Depends. If you watch a movie which has raised black levels, you need to clip a bit of the movie to get correct image quality. Or if your display doesn't have the necessary controls to setup black and white levels properly you may want/need to do that with madVR.

When calibrating your display, clipping off a large portion of your shadows and highlights (legacy/Poynton/traditional method) is the last thing you want to do. Everything that gets clipped in the video is lost forever. If you want to introduce a black level control it should be labeled as such, and be separate from brightness control.
That's why I'm asking what madVR users would want to use those controls for. There may be situations where you really want to change the black/white level.

Of course I could name those controls "black level" and "white level", and I could introduce separate controls for "brightness" and "contrast" which don't change the black/white levels.

[cyberbeing]

Of course I could name those controls "black level" and "white level", and I could introduce separate controls for "brightness" and "contrast" which don't change the black/white levels.

That would be what I'd like to see.

[Thunderbolt8]

that would be useful in the case of some movies, yes.

also, is it possible to choose max and min. values of the scale which make some sense on a first glance? what I mean is having a scale which values dont seem to be completely arbitrary to the spectrum of change of that factor. e.g. when its about colours, then having a scale consisting of 255 steps would indicate that each step precisely changed the colour by one of those values 0-255 RGB values.

although this then fails when video levels are selected? :S dont know whether such things are possible and/or useful.

[Qaq]

That's why I'm asking what madVR users would want to use those controls for.
To make a brightness/contrast/color profile for some video (file) and store it. To load a profile (to 'calibrate' the video) and keep TV controls untouched.

[sixor]

i have a doubt

what should be better for max quality? for hd vids
madvr or
evr + sharpen complex 2 shaders

i know this is kinda dumb, but i just can´t find differences between madvr and evr, any suggestion? i have tons of hd, sd, vids i can test

[Qaq]

i just can´t find differences between madvr and evr, any suggestion?
You have to setup properly the whole video path: video player, video driver, display. After that you'll be ready to compare.

[xvidivx]

That's too bad. Unfortunately I can't reproduce the problem here. Video playback works just fine here after Win+L. Without being able to reproduce it, there's not much I can do. Well, you could try to create a log (as short as possible, please!). Maybe that would help, but I'm not sure. A problem like this will probably be hard to find.


:thanks: This is the log file.
12338

[Hprd]

Hmm well my issue that started with .63/4, i think it was, still exists, and i found out that my previous "workaround" didn't really work. The osd would show that it was ok, but playback was very stuttery.

Anyhow, the issue of course was, on 48/59hz with only "overshoot max frame latency" checked, the present que after a little while runs out (and the render que to an extent as well), and i get alot of glitches, and sometimes frame drops. The best playback i found was to set the pre-rendered frames to 16 (as the issue i had b4 for w/e reason is gone when setting it that high), and setting the option for "limit rendering times to prevent glitches". It isn't perfect, as there's still some glitches here and there, but it's the best solution for now. At 23/29hz for w/e reason (i played back a 1 1/2 hour+ movie with zero issues) it's perfect like it was b4 on all resolutions (with just the overshoot option checked).

Here's a log file in which i played a video up to the point where the ques started running out (if it helps):

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=F0L8L7JU

[JarrettH]

what happens when you tick off "enable gamma processing"?

I only calibrate my monitor with a Spyder2 Pro, nothing fancy

[TheElix]

madshi, while trying to get that error occur as early as possible I've stumbled upon another error.
.M2TS files can't be opened with JanWillem32's build of MPC-HC. The log is really short because the player crashes on opening.

http://narod.ru/disk/17501242001/madVR%20-%20log.rar.html

[Qaq]

People, don't attach anything here. Your attachments will be approved in next month/year.

[sixor]

You have to setup properly the whole video path: video player, video driver, display. After that you'll be ready to compare.

thanks but didn´t understand

i just wish to know in what cases mad vr should be better instead of evr

for sd vids? for hd? for downsampling?, i kinda believe mpc+evr+sharpencomplex2 gives better quality in hd movies, but worse in sd

[jmone]

Re: Exclusive Mode Failed:
There are a few reporting this issues over at the MC forum - http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=64733.0
Also there may be an issue with the refresh rate changes throwing stuff off - http://yabb.jriver.com/interact/index.php?topic=64904.0

It may also be complicated by the use of MC's Video Clock code....

Update from some quick testing with the latest MC V121 with a clean install / default settings using madVR V66 seems to have addressed these issues - Thanks!

EDIT - Woops - to early to call it. It seems the frame presentation order issue I was having with LAVCUVID is gone, but there others two still appear. More deatils in the MC posts.

[Hprd]

thanks but didn´t understand

i just wish to know in what cases mad vr should be better instead of evr

for sd vids? for hd? for downsampling?, i kinda believe mpc+evr+sharpencomplex2 gives better quality in hd movies, but worse in sd

I don't know, maybe it's your preferences, or maybe you don't have something set up right. But to me in the past (it's been a long long time since i've used evr) the differences between evr and madvr were a joke when it came to anything, lol.

When running madvr with the default scaling settings anyways, compared to bicubic75 which was the best evr could do imo. But it was way more than just scaling that was better with madvr (color accuracy, gradient smoothness or however one would want to put it, smoothness of playback in fullscreen, plus the lack of tearing in fullscreen as well, especially when using mpc's subtitles, at the time anyways), as madvr with bicubic75 luma looks alot better as well.

[Andy o]

The difference between madVR and others are most clearly visible in test patterns, of course. You can try some of the tests on the first page, or if you have a calibration disc, run the smooth gradient, with madVR it will look smooth, with EVR you'll get banding.

[fairchild]

:thanks: madshi for the new version. It is working great for me with no dropped or delayed frames and yCMS 3dlut is working well again. I also noticed a bug like another user, if you pause the video and look at the stats, you will see constant delayed frames that keep going and going and going... When I un-pause the video the delayed frames stop happening.

If anybody else is curious here are the settings I'm currently using with the hw+sw in my sig:

while using windowed mode and with Aero on (desktop composition on and transparency disabled)

PC levels (0-255) and RGB Limited in CCC

treat 25p movies at 24p (requires Reclock)

scaling algorithms >
chroma upscaling= Bicubic 75
luma upscaling = Softcubic 50
luma downscaling= Softcubic 50

rendering > general settings (everything else unchecked)
use a separate device for presentation (Vista / Windows 7 only)
use D3D11 for presentation

rendering > windowed mode settings (everything else at default)
8 backbuffers

[jmone]

Though be careful when using such applications while you playback they can be the reason for frame drops :(

Thanks Cruncher! When trying to troubleshoot my issues I ended up running at one time all the following (with high freq update option on where possible) to try to see what was causes my stuttering...:
- Process Explorer
- CPU-Z
- GPU-Z

...looks like I was making it hard for myself!

Edit - a victim of Observer Effect: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observer_effect_(physics)

[jmone]

My current direct show chain is:
--> LAVCUVID outputting NV12 to
--> FFDSHOW RAW (to add subtitles) outputting YV12 to
--> madVR

Is there any issue with the FFDHSOW changing the format from NV12 to YV12, and/or should I force either NV12 or YV12 for the entire chain?

Thanks
Nathan

[nevcairiel]

--> LAVCUVID outputting NV12 to
--> FFDSHOW RAW (to add subtitles) outputting YV12 to
--> madVR

Is there any issue with the FFDHSOW changing the format from NV12 to YV12, and/or should I force either NV12 or YV12 for the entire chain?

To properly answer that one would have to know if ffdshow converts it anyway internally to apply subtitles, but then again NV12<->YV12 is a lossless conversion. I do remember some issues with NV12 input in ffdshow however, so i would probably force YV12 output from LAV CUVID.

[HTPC-User]

Hi!

hmm i use ati 4:4:4 RGB with a Full HD LCD, can't remember seeing grey parts in the OSD, but I will check that again when i'm home today. But i use CCC 11.6, don't know if that makes a difference

Thanks, but meanwhile I've got the chance to test my projector with a NVIDIA PC and this one shows the same odd behaviour.
So I tried each and every setting of the projector and at the end I found the problem: some kind of picture enhancer :eek: which was enabled by default.

Perhaps this information could be useful for someone.

[Plutotype]

:thanks: madshi for the new version. It is working great for me with no dropped or delayed frames and yCMS 3dlut is working well again. I also noticed a bug like another user, if you pause the video and look at the stats, you will see constant delayed frames that keep going and going and going... When I un-pause the video the delayed frames stop happening.


Confirmed here and again - this is why also the CPU utilisation exists after playback is paused with 0.66. Not ideal.

[sixor]

I don't know, maybe it's your preferences, or maybe you don't have something set up right. But to me in the past (it's been a long long time since i've used evr) the differences between evr and madvr were a joke when it came to anything, lol.

When running madvr with the default scaling settings anyways, compared to bicubic75 which was the best evr could do imo. But it was way more than just scaling that was better with madvr (color accuracy, gradient smoothness or however one would want to put it, smoothness of playback in fullscreen, plus the lack of tearing in fullscreen as well, especially when using mpc's subtitles, at the time anyways), as madvr with bicubic75 luma looks alot better as well.

thank you, and you too andyo

[jmone]

To properly answer that one would have to know if ffdshow converts it anyway internally to apply subtitles, but then again NV12<->YV12 is a lossless conversion. I do remember some issues with NV12 input in ffdshow however, so i would probably force YV12 output from LAV CUVID.

Thanks - one +ve side effect is the Subs have lost a green "halo" / are more cleanly rendered.

[moliko]

Is it normal that the picture look something overbright ?
And some details are gone.

What settings can i change to avoid this.
I disable all image enhancer of my gpu.


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/madvrsample.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/148/nomadvrsample.jpg/

[namaiki]

Is it normal that the picture look something overbright ?
And some details are gone.

What settings can i change to avoid this.
I disable all image enhancer of my gpu.


http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/madvrsample.jpg/
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/148/nomadvrsample.jpg/

What video decoder are you using? (e.g. ffdshow video decoder, CoreAVC) Which ever it is, please post a screenshot of output settings.

[moliko]

What video decoder are you using? (e.g. ffdshow video decoder, CoreAVC) Which ever it is, please post a screenshot of output settings.

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/860/ffdshowoutput.jpg/

[Qaq]

Is it normal that the picture look something overbright ?
This is the "output level" thing. Make sure you use 0-255 in madVR and video driver.

I tried the "colors.ytp" test pattern to check the movements. Found that I need 0-255/6bit or 16-235/8bit to avoid the movements. 16-235/8bit looks more reasonably for me, I just need to set my TV to 16-235 too. But here comes another issue - this way picture looses details in dark. Is it my display fault or just worse rounding - I don't know. So I've decided to use 0-255/8bit to keep picture more informative. Maybe it's wrong for some statements, but it looks like a good compromise for me.

[moliko]

I changed the Input levels of ffdshow from Standard to Full range.
The overbright is gone and my details are back.

Thanks

[Qaq]

I changed the Input levels of ffdshow from Standard to Full range.
Thats only matters for RGB ouput and you use NV12.:)

[chogster]

Guys,

I'm struggling to run any version newer than 0.57! I'm getting pretty bad dropped frames from 0.59 onwards. I've tried several variations within the settings, switching things on and off to no avail. Using HAM with a HD5450, could either of these be the weak link?

[fairchild]

Guys,

I'm struggling to run any version newer than 0.57! I'm getting pretty bad dropped frames from 0.59 onwards. I've tried several variations within the settings, switching things on and off to no avail. Using HAM with a HD5450, could either of these be the weak link?

HAM doesn't work for me either. Try using software decoding like ffdshow or coreavc. If you don't have a strong enough CPU, then you have to either switch to an Nvidia card and do CUDA hardware based decoding or wait for madshi to release DXVA support with MadVR (he's hinted at it but could be far off).

[JarrettH]

what happens when you tick off "enable gamma processing"?

I only calibrate my monitor with a Spyder2 Pro, nothing fancy

:cool::thanks:

[Luv]

Confirmed here and again - this is why also the CPU utilisation exists after playback is paused with 0.66. Not ideal.

- Confirmed: DELAYED frames increase like crazy even though the player has stopped (xp32/Zoomplayer 5.02/mVR 0.66/HD4770/Catalyst 10.8).
- OSD is still acting up it seems:glitch,delayed,dropped frames (increasing very quickly after a few back and forth exclusive- WM...) when I blast up the player but everything remains synched to my eyes,but I don't know really.
- rendering time is now close to 27 ms whatever the scale and disabling the 3d settings in the CCC does not change anything anymore.But I can live with this.

Ok,the good news now:
Very impressive job,madshi.
I jumped from 0.43 to 0.66 directly and you managed to increase the image quality AGAIN (Without changing the scalers.I use Spline 4 taps for Chr-Lum)

:thanks: Plain gorgeous.

PS:
the powerdvd avc decoder now connects systematically to your renderer whatever the container (Old story) !

[JarrettH]

When did madvr start working properly with DVDs anyhow? I know someone came up with that hack job, but why is it working now, did something change?

[Qaq]

Using HAM with a HD5450, could either of these be the weak link?
In most cases I have good results with 5450 and HAM. I have stripped Windows7 and video driver a lot to work as fast as possible. The only problem I can't solve is that backbuffer queue reaches 0 sometimes. Maybe I have to play with backbuffer settings or it's just time to buy 6570. HAM works pretty well for me except deinterlacing (here I go to EVR CP from JanWillem).

[Neeto]

When did madvr start working properly with DVDs anyhow? I know someone came up with that hack job, but why is it working now, did something change?

What are you using to make it work? Decoder? Player? OS? I've still got problems with DVDs - but is better than it was - main problem is the dvd menu freezing in MPC-HT after a couple of navigations - I've still got the hack in place.

[Hypernova]

madshi, the old problem of subtitle disappeared when paused came back. I assumed it's when you rewritten the subtitle part, which IIRC is 0.66. If the exact version check is needed, please let me know.

[TheLion]

Depends. If you watch a movie which has raised black levels, you need to clip a bit of the movie to get correct image quality. Or if your display doesn't have the necessary controls to setup black and white levels properly you may want/need to do that with madVR.


That's why I'm asking what madVR users would want to use those controls for. There may be situations where you really want to change the black/white level.

Of course I could name those controls "black level" and "white level", and I could introduce separate controls for "brightness" and "contrast" which don't change the black/white levels.

Dear Mathias,

I would love to see "black level"/"White Level" control in madVR. I recently bought a new Samsung A800B front projector. I am not able to calibrate it to 0-255 output from madVR as the brightness/contrast settings naturally counteract each other. I would need a black level setting (like 0 IRE, 7.5 IRE) to make it work.

I think there are many calibration related issues where such an setting would come very handy if implemented in the renderer itself.

THANKS FOR YOUR GREAT WORK!

[Boltron]

I need some madVR settings advice.

I am doing a greyscale calibration on my LCD TV. I want to configure madVR correctly so that it does not alter nor correct black/white/gamma levels during playback so I can get an accurate calibration. I am playing the calibration test patterns on my HTPC and taking measurements off the TV.

I have ATI video use MPC-HC/ffdshow/madVR for playback.
- ATI is set to 4:4:4 Full RGB
- ffdshow video is set to RGB32 out. "High quality YV12 to RGB conversion" and Dithering are checked. BT.709, Full Range in/out.
- madVR is set for PC levels but I am not sure how to configure "disable calibration controls for the display" and "enable Gamma Processing"

So my questions.
- In the "calibration" page, should I choose "disable calibration controls for the display" or "this display is already calibrated"? Which of these settings will in essence act more like a pass through?
- In the "color & gamma" page, should I check "enable Gamma Processing"?
- WRT to ffdshow, are the setting above correct?

My ultimate goal is to have a properly calibrated TV with my playback chain.

Thanks guys.

[fairchild]

@Boltron

Set MadVR to disable calibration controls for this display, and leave enable gamma processing unchecked.

That will give you passthrough. Then use some patterns being output from your HTPC to your TV through MadVR, verify the levels and whatnot are matching your calibrated settings. (sometimes you have to adjust the levels option in MadVR for your particular TV, for instance my plasma I have to use TV levels in MadVR with RGB Full from my video card drivers)

Ultimately to get an even more accurate result, you would want to use the 3DLUT option by inputting calibration values for yCMS or use a 3DLUT generated by another supported software.

[Xaurus]

I am not sure where to ask this, but I have a problem playing m2ts files.

The videos play in at least double speed and same with the sound.

Everything else works perfectly, mkv etc.

I've tried with many different films but the same thing
happens with all that are m2ts. Renaming them to mkv
doesn't help, same thing happens.

Using mpc-hc + madvr + lavcuvid + lavfilters.

Any idea?

General
ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 20.2 GiB
Duration : 1h 56mn
Overall bit rate : 24.8 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps

Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L4.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 1h 56mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 20.1 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 24.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : MBAFF
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.388
Stream size : 16.3 GiB (81%)
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177