madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[ryrynz]

Haven't used FSE in a long time, it's not really needed for the majority of setups.

[Siso]

Haven't used FSE in a long time, it's not really needed for the majority of setups.

Same here.

BTW is there any visual difference with 3dlut, when using the default windowed fullscreen (present frames in advance), and using windowed overlay (which clips WTW) when watching blu-ray movies?

[mclingo]

This has been reported before. The Fall Creators Update and Full Screen Exclusive mode do not work well together. In fact, they don't work at all.

Before madshi jumps in and tells you to go back to Win 8.1 :), let me suggest you use full screen windowed mode instead. You probably don't absolutely need FSE.


Hi and thanks, if I went back to something i'd just drop the fall update again but I can only postpone this for 1 year.

I need full screen exclusive mode for MVC 3D playback unfortunately.

It cant be totally broken though can it?... as it works on a prevous MADVR release from October.

[steakhutzeee]

I'm confused about "1-". How can the video fit the screen to perfectly 16:9, if you have black bars left and right?
Sorry, I explained it not really clear. It fits the screen just on top and bottom.


If you have a movie with a resolution like 1919x1079 and play it on a 1920x1080 TV, then most media players by default ask madVR to scale 1919x1079 to 1920x1080, which is not really good for image quality, and wastes GPU power. So with this option activated, madVR will "override" the media player wish to have this video scaled up by 1 pixel and instead draw it unscaled, with a 1 pixel sized black bar at the right side and the bottom of the video.


So, for example, I can set it to 25 lines, and it will not upscale the video if the difference is of 25 pixels or less?

Thanks!

Inviato dal mio BLN-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk

[chros]

Hmmmm... The 3dlut stuff is surprising. I'll check if I can reproduce it here. Which pixel shader conversion "display peak nits" value did you choose? I think with "let madVR decide" madVR uses 400nits. You've probably chosen a much lower value? That would explain the difference between "let madVR decide" and the pixel shader math option.
Yes, I used 120 nits for both 3dlut and madvr's pixel shader. I've posted more images onto DisplayCal thread.
FWIW, I'm planning to lower the default "display peak nits" value in a future version.
Thanks

[jkauff]

It cant be totally broken though can it?... as it works on a prevous MADVR release from October.
You're right, if you can live with an old version it's not totally broken.

[nevcairiel]

You're right, if you can live with an old version it's not totally broken.

That it works with an old version of madVR does indicate that something triggered the bug in madVR, and possibly madshi could do something about it, though. Its not like FSE doesn't work entirely on FCU, in all the games I tried it also works fine.

[Razoola]

I see nvidia has released a new driver in the last hour or so (388.43). Anyone had a chance to see if HDR switching off is working again in this driver given Im not at home at the moment?

[mclingo]

That it works with an old version of madVR does indicate that something triggered the bug in madVR, and possibly madshi could do something about it, though. Its not like FSE doesn't work entirely on FCU, in all the games I tried it also works fine.

yeah, hoping for a fix from the Master.

[mclingo]

update on my issues with Black screen on latest version.

My PC
ATI RX 550 - driver 17.11.4 (latest)
Intel I7 with z68 mb
SSD windows drive
Windows 10 pro - fall creators update
16 gb ram
LAV filters - 0.70.2 (latest)


MADVR diags

09209 - black screen with MVC 3D and other movies.

09208 - struggles to start 3d MVC video, several starts and stops of audio before picture but exclusive mode works, however madvr crashes on stop and i loose hdmi handshake, have to kill madvr in task and DEVCON reset to get picture back.

09207 - same as 09208 but stops ok back to desktop no crashes, reasonably stable version.

using MPC-HC, MPC-BE and KODI DS, same issues with all three.

MASDHI - now we have tons of nice feature any change to could put a bit of boring work into stability and the Start / stop of movies, it feels really unstable and it often takes a good ten seconds for a movie to start.

heart felt thanks for your continued work on this project.

[Skwelcha]

Attached stuff to this forum doesn't work, unfortunately, so please upload it somewhere else and then link to it here.



here it is: https://www.xup.in/dl,32961002/madVR_-_crash_report.txt/

[Gopa]

Recently, I said, that I was experimenting, with using, ffdshow & mpc-hc shaders (desired, more sharpening). Not anymore. MadVR, is more than enough, for me. Much better sharpener's in madVR. Just needed to try a few more madVR settings, until I was satisfied. Thank you, Madashi!

[Siso]

Does anyone have any rendering spikes with the latest madvr build and error diffusion 1 and error diffusion 2 settings? I've disabled "use colored noise" in both but the rendering spikes occur...Like from max stats 12 ms, to 18-19 ms. It is ok with ordered dithering.

[mclingo]

think i'm going to have to take off creators update again, getting frame drops/ repeated frames every 40 seconds seemingly regardless of what versions of madvr/lav/amd drivers i use, i even used my goto set which is always stable - madvr 09114, lav 0702 and ati 17.10.2, still them same, creators update looks like its total bullshIt.

going to do a ful reinstall of all these before I take that drastic step, unless anyone else has any advice for dropped frames in MADVR? - my usual target is one every 2+ hours at least.

[Soulnight]

Small question to the community:

is it possible to decode HEVC /X265 with the CPU (I7 7700K) and still use Madvr with a GTX1080TI?

I would like to offload the hardware decoding of HEVC of my GPU to my CPU which is sleeping next to it. :D

Is so, how does it work with lavvideo filter?
I thought Madvr would follow the GPU you would choose in Lavvideo filter.

I have 2 GPUs currently: GTX1080TI for Madvr work (Dynamic HDR with compression of highlights with HDR to SDR) + AMD RX560 for 4K Frame interpolation.

:thanks:

[aufkrawall]

It doesn't make sense to put the load of decoding on the CPU since D3D11VA decoding without copyback (LAV Filters nightly) doesn't steal any performance from madVR.

[clsid]

MadVR uses the GPU to which your monitor is connected. LAV uses that same GPU by default for hardware decoding. If you select DXVA2 Copyback or D3D11 in LAV Video, then you can override which GPU is used for decoding. But that only has effect on LAV.

[mclingo]

update on my issues with Black screen on latest version.

My PC
ATI RX 550 - driver 17.11.4 (latest)
Intel I7 with z68 mb
SSD windows drive
Windows 10 pro - fall creators update
16 gb ram
LAV filters - 0.70.2 (latest)


MADVR diags

09209 - black screen with MVC 3D and other movies.

09208 - struggles to start 3d MVC video, several starts and stops of audio before picture but exclusive mode works, however madvr crashes on stop and i loose hdmi handshake, have to kill madvr in task and DEVCON reset to get picture back.

09207 - same as 09208 but stops ok back to desktop no crashes, reasonably stable version.

using MPC-HC, MPC-BE and KODI DS, same issues with all three.

MASDHI - now we have tons of nice feature any change to could put a bit of boring work into stability and the Start / stop of movies, it feels really unstable and it often takes a good ten seconds for a movie to start.

heart felt thanks for your continued work on this project.


update for the above.

Ok, after loads of faffing about i took creaters fall update off and all my problems are solved again, using all same driver and versions I was on creators update, this is defo messing stuff up and should be avoided at all costs for MADVR users IMHO.

i'm now using latest version of ATI drivers, MADVR and LAV and all us working, frame drops back to hours and start / stop working ok if a little slow, its taking 5-10 seconds to start a movie, however sometimes its because my disks have to spin up first as I have 12 disks in my server and its obviously not wise to have them all spinning 24-7.

havent tried any HDR yet though...


HDR update, this is interesting, all latest 4 versions give me black screen, not working at all with HDR, if I go back to 911 and 914 hdr plays but is choppy, the interesting bit here is that i'm back to frame drops every 40 seconds when playing HDR movies, this is too much of a coincidence, what is the significance of getting frame drops every 40 seconds on just 4k 10 bit HDR movies on none creaters update and older versions of madvr and 40 seconds frame drops on all movies on creators update, starting to wonder if this in fact and issue with MADVR afterall in that we need a creators update MADVR version, or is there something in it which breaks MADVR and causes the frame drops and issues with exclusive mode?. I'd like to get back onto creators as I need it for some other stuff .

Is anyone using creators with an ATI RX card who isnt havent any problems with frame drops or HDR?

also, no versions turn HDR off and on anymore, this worked on creators.

[EmuAGR]

Please upload a screenshot of the OSD (Ctrl+J), when playing HDR content, to some image sharing host and link to the image here (don't attach here, doesn't work).

I'm not completely sure if the AMD HDR API supports Windows 7, but I think it should. Do you have the Windows 7 Platform Update installed?

Actually, I've added support for a private AMD HDR API a while ago, so it should work with AMD in Windows 8, maybe also in Windows 7. However, the AMD API has some extra annoying requirements: It only works in fullscreen mode (doesn't have to be exclusive, though), and D3D11 presentation must be used with 10bit backbuffer.

Thank you, madshi, for your quick reply. Two screenshots, the second is a photo since screenshots are taken black in exclusive mode and saving image doesn't capture the OSD.

QHD monitor (8bit panel), HDR off, 75 Hz: https://imgur.com/gNSccsY
UHD TV (8bit panel), HDR passthrough, 23.976 Hz: https://imgur.com/9SpHFMp

My script corretly selects HDR profile (in bold) with the following options:
- Enable automatic fullscreen exclusive mode
- Use D3D 11 for presentation (W7 and newer)
-- Present a frame for every VSync

HDR works fine with PS4, I don't think that's the issue. The AMD display drivers I have installed are the beta ones from august (22.19.659.1), optimized for computing. I can't enable computing mode in W7 with latest regular drivers (I even feel these beta drivers more stable).

[huhn]

as madshi said you need to send 10 bit to the GPU driver or passthrough doesn't work with AMD it doesn' t matter if your screen is 8 bit.

[Khaled1323]

whenever i play something on mpc/madvr it changes my monitors color, can i disable that?

[huhn]

can you be a little bit more precise?
madVR can't change your monitors settings but it >can< unload an icc file for playback.

[Knight77]

Hi,

I've got a GTX1070, Sony 4k TV and Pioneer LX59 AVR capable of Ultra HD Pass-through with HDCP 2.2 (4K/60p/4:4:4/24-bit, 4K/24p/4:4:4/36-bit, 4K/60p/4:2:2/36-bit), using Windows 10 last update.

If in nVidia settings I set the desktop to RGB Full 8bit everything works fine. If I try to set it to ybcr 422 12bpc (or 10) the green on desktop looks really pushed and if I play MPHC+madVR fullscreen the movie looks black white and green, no other colours. If I don't play it in fullscreen it's fine (but shows 8bit).

I read that with my config and content (fullhd and 4k) it would be better to go with YBCR 4:2:2 12bpc but I got this problem and I'd like to solve it even if don't know why. Tried to change HDMI cable, that was already good, and nothing changed.

Any idea?

Hope so....thanks!

[huhn]

nothing wrong with 4:4:4 8 bit RGB and most likely the best anyway for 60 hz.
i can only point you to other GPU driver.

[Knight77]

nothing wrong with 4:4:4 8 bit RGB and most likely the best anyway for 60 hz.
i can only point you to other GPU driver.

Thanks, I'll try other drivers, BTW my content it's all 1080p or UHD 23.976 so no 60hz, but maybe it would be better to use the 10/12 bit, no?

[huhn]

yes RGB 12 bit should work just fine and is clearly better than 4:2:2.

[Khaled1323]

can you be a little bit more precise?
madVR can't change your monitors settings but it >can< unload an icc file for playback.
I think thats what does. I have my own icc file on windows settings,
but when i play something it changes. Can I stop it from doing it?

[huhn]

by default it shouldn't do that.

you can find the option under device -> "your device name" -> calibration uncheck "disable GPU gamma ramp"

[jkauff]

That it works with an old version of madVR does indicate that something triggered the bug in madVR, and possibly madshi could do something about it, though. Its not like FSE doesn't work entirely on FCU, in all the games I tried it also works fine.
I think madshi's indicated in the past that he doesn't want to spend too much time on workarounds for problems in Win 10 because it's a moving target. Each new release seems to break something that worked in the previous release, and he doesn't have a team of developers like Nvidia and AMD do for modifying their drivers (and they're having their own problems keeping up).

I'm sure this bug/issue will be fixed at some point, but it may be low on his priority list. Nevertheless, madVR 1.0 will have to work well on Win 10 because so many people are using it, so we just need to be patient.

[Knight77]

yes RGB 12 bit should work just fine and is clearly better than 4:2:2.

RGB 12 can't be done in 4K, so if I want to go 10/12 bit I have to go YBCR but then I have tthe green tone problem

[huhn]

no RGB 12 bit is part of the spec. it can't be done at 50/60 hz but 23-30 hz can do it.

[nevcairiel]

RGB 12 can't be done in 4K, so if I want to go 10/12 bit I have to go YBCR but then I have tthe green tone problem

RGB 12-bit can be done at 24Hz just fine, just not at 60. Additionally, you should always prefer RGB 8-bit over YCbCr 4:2:2 10/12-bit. With proper dithering, chroma is more important for image quality.

[mclingo]

I think madshi's indicated in the past that he doesn't want to spend too much time on workarounds for problems in Win 10 because it's a moving target. Each new release seems to break something that worked in the previous release, and he doesn't have a team of developers like Nvidia and AMD do for modifying their drivers (and they're having their own problems keeping up).

I'm sure this bug/issue will be fixed at some point, but it may be low on his priority list. Nevertheless, madVR 1.0 will have to work well on Win 10 because so many people are using it, so we just need to be patient.


That makes sense, however the creators update is likely to be the last free major update so we could do with getting everything working with that, then we can all just sit on that version, there is too much missing in the way of features on pre 1709 versions, connect to mobile for one is essential for me.

yup, we'll all just have to be patient, in the meantime I think i'll image my curent C drive and dual boot 1703 and 1709 so I can retesting MADVR with each new release whilst having a stable platform to use in the meantime, I can live with some of the issues with creators update but I cant live with frame drops every 40 seconds, I couldnt solve that whatever I did and thats really odd as I get the same problem playing HDR movies on the pre creators update, these issues are connected somehow, hoping the issue will be spotted and fixed soon.

Note however on creators update HDR was fully working for me using exclusive mode, it even triggered HDR on my LG OLED, just couldnt live the frame drops, so close yet so far....

[ashlar42]

That makes sense, however the creators update is likely to be the last free major updateAnd what makes you think that?

[mclingo]

i read it somewhere, happy to be proven wrong.

[EmuAGR]

as madshi said you need to send 10 bit to the GPU driver or passthrough doesn't work with AMD it doesn' t matter if your screen is 8 bit.

I can confirm this did the trick, madVR's display settings need to be set to 10 bit panel. But in fact, exclusive mode is still required, not just fullscreen. Thank you very much, madshi and huhn. :thanks:

[mclingo]

so to sum up, people on the fall creators update using AMD card have the following problems:

PROBLEMS

(A) - black screen on newer version of MADVR
(B) - frame drops ever 40 seconds regardless of what versions of MADVR, LAV or AMD drivers are used - reclock also does not resolve this.


WORKING

(A) - using 0907 MADVR HDR works and triggers HDR mode on passthrough but has frame drops every 40 seconds
(B) - using 0907 SDR works but with frame drops every 40 seconds
(C) - using 0907 MVC 3D using FSE mode works but with frame drops every 40 seconds.

So if we can find away to fix the 40 second frame drop and then fix in V1.0 what got broke in V0908 onnwards we could be there for AMD users.

[huhn]

I can confirm this did the trick, madVR's display settings need to be set to 10 bit panel. But in fact, exclusive mode is still required, not just fullscreen. Thank you very much, madshi and huhn. :thanks:

w7 doesn't support 10 bit windowed so kind of.

[aufkrawall]

Please don't confuse people with calling borderless = windowed, they are not necessarily treated the same by DWM.

[Soulnight]

It doesn't make sense to put the load of decoding on the CPU since D3D11VA decoding without copyback (LAV Filters nightly) doesn't steal any performance from madVR.

MadVR uses the GPU to which your monitor is connected. LAV uses that same GPU by default for hardware decoding. If you select DXVA2 Copyback or D3D11 in LAV Video, then you can override which GPU is used for decoding. But that only has effect on LAV.

Thanks guys.
I guess Il will try to convince myself with doing the hardware decoding with my RX560 which has only 55% load by 4K Interpolation. And see if I get any benefit for the GTX1080TI and rendering time in Madvr.

It seems smarter that way to me.

Currently I am doing:
1) Hardare HEVC decoding: GTX1080TI
2) FI 4K24p-->60p: AMD RX560 with bluesky FRC
3) Rendering madvr: GTX1080TI

Maybe if Decoding speaks directly to the Fi on the same card, it would be better. :D

[el Filou]

Please don't confuse people with calling borderless = windowed, they are not necessarily treated the same by DWM.
Did you mean 'exclusive' instead of 'borderless'? "borderless" means 'borderless fullscreen windowed' so it's windowed mode.

Edit: or did you mean 'borderless fullscreen windowed' is treated differently by DWM than 'bordered window windowed' ?

[aufkrawall]

Edit: or did you mean 'borderless fullscreen windowed' is treated differently by DWM than 'bordered window windowed' ?
That's what I meant.
To make confusion perfect: Without "fullscreen optimizations" disabled in Windows 10 CU2 compatibility options, there probably even isn't any difference between borderless fullscreen windowed and fullscreen exclusive anymore.

[mclingo]

see attachments of my recent results with pre creators update 1703 and latest MADVR 09209.

Here are my conclusions, please note these are only for users with AMD GFX cards who want to passthru HDR to a HDR capable TV. Some we already know, if not all but this was done just to get straight in my mind exactly what was and wasnt working and in what combination.

conclusions:

(A) - MVC 3D wil not working with FULL SCREEN EXCLUSIVE MODE (FSE) on.

(B) - Minimum MADVR rendering requirements for perfect HDR playback are:

1. copyback hardware decoding (didnt try native)

2. FSE off.

3. use Direct 3D for presentation on (required to trigger HDR mode
on HDR capable TV)

4. use a seperate device for presentation.

(C) - dont use direct 3d presentation and FSE together for anything but SDR 2D movies or you'll likely get a black screen and an unresponsive PC which you'll have to powercycle.

(D) - There are no combination of settings that allow you to have both HDR passthrough and MVC 3D working together.


question (i) is there any other way to enable MVC 3D without FSE, or any way to enable auto HDR mode enabling without use of Direct 3D presentation?

question (ii) if the fall creators update breaks FSE why does it seem to be broken here as well?

question (iii) - could a workaround be put in place in MADVR where when MVC 3D is triggered direct 3D is turned off, or it might be easier the other way around, when HDR movies are played FSE is temporarily disabled and brought back when the movies is stopped?


edit - hmm, not sure about these results now, every time I drop into MVC 3D now my PC crashes, cant help feeling all these problems are down to this shite RX550 card and Windows 10 drivers, had some issues with my old RX480 but nothing like this.

[Soulnight]

Thanks guys.
I guess Il will try to convince myself with doing the hardware decoding with my RX560 which has only 55% load by 4K Interpolation. And see if I get any benefit for the GTX1080TI and rendering time in Madvr.

It seems smarter that way to me.

Currently I am doing:
1) Hardare HEVC decoding: GTX1080TI
2) FI 4K24p-->60p: AMD RX560 with bluesky FRC
3) Rendering madvr: GTX1080TI

Maybe if Decoding speaks directly to the Fi on the same card, it would be better. :D

And so... it does help to use an other GPU to do the HEVC hardware decoding. :)
At least it helps in my case to use the same GPU to do the HEVC decoding + frame interpolation, before it goes to next graphics card for madvr rendering.

Test:
- source: 4K HDR 4:2:0 10bits 24p @63Mb/s bitrate
- Hdr to SDR DCI-p3 with dynamic compression of highlights
-Chroma upscaling: Bicubic75
- Debanding high
- Display: Epson EH-LS10000 (59p 4:2:0 8bits)

Setup 1:
1) Hardware HEVC decoding DX11: GTX1080TI
2) FI 4K24p-->59p: AMD RX560 with bluesky FRC
3) Rendering madvr: GTX1080TI

-->11.5ms avg renderin time, 15.5 ms max rendering time

Setup 2:
1) Hardware HEVC decoding DX11: AMD RX560
2) FI 4K24p-->59p: AMD RX560 with bluesky FRC
3) Rendering madvr: GTX1080TI

-->9.5ms avg Rendering Time, 11.5ms max rendering time

That's a 20% speed increase! :D
Very happy. :-)

[steakhutzeee]

Hi :)

In madvr dithering options i use Error Diffusion - option 1.

As i can see there are dithering options in lav video too, i can choose between Ordered and Random. What should i pick, there is difference?

[Gopa]

Hi :)

In madvr dithering options i use Error Diffusion - option 1.

As i can see there are dithering options in lav video too, i can choose between Ordered and Random. What should i pick, there is difference?

I have also, wondered, whether or not, lav dither settings, even matter? I just leave it as it is. I use "ordered", in madVR, with nothing else checked, because it is a lot faster, than option 1 or 2, without any noticeable difference for my anime (maybe even better). Sometimes, I will use option 2, with, change dither for every frame, for non-anime, if I have extra rendertime. I never use option 1, because it seems to increase noise, too much. I experimented, using colored noise, checked & did not care for it.

[steakhutzeee]

I have also, wondered, whether or not, lav dither settings, even matter? I just leave it as it is. I use "ordered", in madVR, with nothing else checked, because it is a lot faster, than option 1 or 2, without any noticeable difference for my anime (maybe even better). Sometimes, I will use option 2, with, change dither for every frame, for non-anime, if I have extra rendertime. I never use option 1, because it seems to increase noise, too much. I experimented, using colored noise, checked & did not care for it.

So you use Random Dithering in lav?

Don't know, you say option 2 is better of option 1? and that ordered is better than the two? Why? I'm not an expert. I watch only movies.

[nevcairiel]

I have also, wondered, whether or not, lav dither settings, even matter?

If you use madVR and didn't mess with any other LAV settings you shouldn't mess with (like disabling any of the output formats in LAV), then they don't matter, since madVR supports high-bitdepth input formats.

[Gopa]

If you use madVR and didn't mess with any other LAV settings you shouldn't mess with (like disabling any of the output formats in LAV), then they don't matter, since madVR supports high-bitdepth input formats.

Thank you. I thought this was true. Does it matter if I choose PC (255) vs untouched (input)? I usually, go with untouched, just in case.

[steakhutzeee]

If you use madVR and didn't mess with any other LAV settings you shouldn't mess with (like disabling any of the output formats in LAV), then they don't matter, since madVR supports high-bitdepth input formats.

What about this? Can you explain more clearly? Thanks :)

2 is slower than 1 & 1 is slower than ordered. For regular movies, I usually, go with 2 + change every frame & for anime, ordered, without, change every frame. 1 & 2 are a lot slower than ordered & I usually, can see little, or no difference. You might like colored noise. I usually, do not. Ordered, pretty much works, well, for everything. You have to try them & look very closely, to see the differences. Different sources, will look a little better, or worse, so you have to try them all, to see what you like, or just go with ordered. Not a very important setting for me. I would be okay if ordered, was always checked, because it uses less GPU & I cannot see much difference (usually).

Why you prefer option 2 for movies? :)