madVR - high quality video renderer (GPU assisted)

[rack04]

I have exhibited random crashes in the past couple of weeks. I have updated madVR, LAV Filters, MPC-BE and graphic drivers to the latest versions but I can't narrow down the culprit. I'm hoping this log provide some kind of clarity. It is a large file so please forgive me.

http://www.filedropper.com/madvr-log

[Warner306]

Are there any guidelines for setting peak luminance? Does this even matter with non-HDR content? If so, this option could use better labelling.

[AngelGraves13]

madshi,

What are you thoughts on "black frame insertion" to combat motion blur? I'm guessing this can be done by doubling up the frame rate and adding a black frame between every "real" frame, and that should pretty much eliminate most of the motion blur. The only issue with it is that it can make the image darker, as black will also be shown half of the time, so gamma adjustment must also be done. I'd love to see this as a new feature on madvr.

Also, concerning HDR... My understanding of the latest build is that it will compress HDR to SDR when the nits of brightness is set to the correct value? Thanks.

[TheElix]

madshi,

What are you thoughts on "black frame insertion" to combat motion blur? I'm guessing this can be done by doubling up the frame rate and adding a black frame between every "real" frame, and that should pretty much eliminate most of the motion blur. The only issue with it is that it can make the image darker, as black will also be shown half of the time, so gamma adjustment must also be done. I'd love to see this as a new feature on madvr.

Also, concerning HDR... My understanding of the latest build is that it will compress HDR to SDR when the nits of brightness is set to the correct value? Thanks.There's a BFI script somewhere on this forum. But you will get a lot of flicker this way. Buy a Lightboost (or similar technology) monitor or a CRT. :)

[nevcairiel]

What are you thoughts on "black frame insertion" to combat motion blur? I'm guessing this can be done by doubling up the frame rate and adding a black frame between every "real" frame, and that should pretty much eliminate most of the motion blur. The only issue with it is that it can make the image darker, as black will also be shown half of the time, so gamma adjustment must also be done. I'd love to see this as a new feature on madvr.

BFI at low frame rates like 60Hz will strobe way too much. Its best done inside the TV/Monitor which can drive the panel/backlight at much higher rates.
madshi has commented before that there are no immediate plans for this.

You can however just mimick this with AviSynth if you really want to.

[blueray101]

Hi, I can run image doubling with NNEDI3 32 neurons for 720p but I have to tick all the options in the trade quality for performance except for not recommended ones. Is it worth it?

[ryrynz]

Hi, I can run image doubling with NNEDI3 32 neurons for 720p but I have to tick all the options in the trade quality for performance except for not recommended ones. Is it worth it?

My guess is you're probably the best person to answer that. So set the options watch the film, take a screenshot or two and compare then tell us if you think it's worth it.

[jebediah]

Hi guys.
Can anyone shed some light how display modes in madVR works, what it does and how to set it up.
I have a 4K monitor now, so should i just type in 2160p30 etc?

[SweetLow]

Is it possible for madVR to adjust display backlight over DDC/DI based on profile rules for HDR/SDR media? That way, like calibration curves, backlight can be adjusted automatically as well.
madshi in his infinite wisdom make possible to run any executables on (de)activating profile ;)
P.S. The best solution, IMHO, in this situation will be to change max luminance of monitor on the fly (to the near value of the max luminance of video stream), like screen size and refresh rate. And this will give us max possible precision too, i assume?

[huhn]

Hi guys.
Can anyone shed some light how display modes in madVR works, what it does and how to set it up.
I have a 4K monitor now, so should i just type in 2160p30 etc?

type the modes in it supports. madVR will than choice the best display mode for the content you want to play.

adding 25/30 is not really useful most of the time 50/60 have the same effect.

[mogli]

Hmmm... Windowed or FSE mode? Try FSE, it's usually more reliable.FSE, but I don't think we should spent to much time on this problem if FRC isn't the right way to go for this case and ReClock solves it;

So I suppose I should revert the OSD change.
Either that or remove the static line "repeated frames 0" from the OSD while FRC is on because it's useless if it doesn't actually count anything.

[Uoppi]

Most of these are flagged correctly, so most of the time you can either force the deinterlacing completely off, or you can force madVR into film mode, if you want to be extra safe.

Thanks a lot for finding the time to explain this stuff in detail!

And good to know my eyes weren't lying when deint=Off seemed to look exactly the same as deint=Film with interlaced-flagged progressive PAL. No more confusion about what the "IVTC" processing is doing in each scenario. :thanks:

[Uoppi]

type the modes in it supports. madVR will than choice the best display mode for the content you want to play.

adding 25/30 is not really useful most of the time 50/60 have the same effect.

Just wondering, in Windows there are slightly different resolutions listed under the "Adapter" and "Monitor" tabs. "Adapter" includes kind of everything whereas "Monitor" for example only lists 25 Hz as interlaced, not progressive.

Don't know which one of those are "correct" but I've typed 1080p25 into madVR anyway and it seems to work ok. Hitting the TV's info button shows "25p" but perhaps it's actually 50 Hz (which is probably what you meant by saying 25/30 may not be useful?)

[Ver Greeneyes]

However, GPU gamma ramps don't use dithering, I think, so it would not be a good solution for image quality.
I doubt they do, although for higher bit depth displays they could send a higher bit depth gamma ramp and let the display itself do dithering. On Windows, gamma ramp values are 16-bit integers (although there are only 256 values per channel).

By the way, I have my monitor calibrated to 120 nits (or 120 lux? I always get them confused), well below the minimum of 400 that madVR allows. Is 400 simply the point below which normal (non-HDR) luminance values would start getting cut off? In other words, what is the HDR luminance value of 'normal white'?

[jebediah]

type the modes in it supports. madVR will than choice the best display mode for the content you want to play.

adding 25/30 is not really useful most of the time 50/60 have the same effect.

Thanks. So if my monitor support both 720p, 1080p and 4K. Should i type all of them then?

[huhn]

it best to always scale to the native resolution adding lower resolution is only useful for a screen that can't do 60 or high hz.

for example some screen can't do UHD at 60 because it is connected with hdmi 1.4 so adding 1080p is kind of useful.
so normally this:
2160p23, 2160p24, 2160p50, 2160p59, 2160p60.

if the device can't use 23p or it is flawed like a cheap samsung screen. 60 hz only and smoothmotion is the way to go.

[GCRaistlin]

huhn
I thought that the best modes are 24 for NTSC and 25 Hz for PAL. OK, 50 Hz is OK for for PAL, too, but 60 Hz would cause dropped/repeated frames with any source, wouldn't it?

[BetA13]

Very nice update there...

I tested some true HDR videos, and i have to say, i really like what youve done there. Looks very good indeed..
BUT, is there a way to go lower them 400nits?

Its still a bit too dark for my taste, maybe 200? not shure.
ALso tested 10000 and wooow, thats way too dark. I have no clue what nits my monitor has. (its an CRT on wich im testing atm)
On my HD TV it also looks very good, but also a tiny bit too dark with 400nits..If i could go down to 200 i would be very happy :)

The test videos where 1200nits by the way.. Trailers from Pi and exodus in HDR..
Oh, are there also 1080p HDR video samples sòmewhere? 4k is really heavy here..argh.

Oh an dteh ENhance Detail option, (sorry, just found out about it) i do like. how does it work exactly? at first glanze it look just like an sharpener to me, but its different, i cant tell what it is, but call me interessted.

Greetings

EDIT:

i allmost forgot.
After downloading the new madTestPatternSource samples, i wanted to try them, but found out that my MPCHC64bit didnt want to. cant handle the file.
I did install teh new madTestPatternSource stuff and the bat and all..

It did work with MPCHC32bit.
So i guess they only work with 32bit player?, or am i missing something?

[huhn]

huhn
I thought that the best modes are 24 for NTSC and 25 Hz for PAL. OK, 50 Hz is OK for for PAL, too, but 60 Hz would cause dropped/repeated frames with any source, wouldn't it?

the best mode for NTSC movies is 23p nearly no movie is true 24p and that's in my list. because you are right about this.

if the TV has a flawed 23/24p mode (that's really not that rare.) or no PAL mode (heard of this problem never saw it personally) than smooth motion is the best way to get smooth playback without repeated or dropped frames.

and TV shows are offend PSF 30 hz or 60 hz

[omarank]

@madshi: I played a couple of HDR sample videos with the new build, at normal 100 nits peak brightness level. I too feel that I would prefer a brighter output than it is at 400 nits setting of “display peak luminance”. Can you please offer 100 nits option in the dropdown for “display peak luminance”?

By the way, even at lower brightness, HDR samples looked very pleasing. Thanks for the great work!

[Thunderbolt8]

does anyone know if a GTX 960 is able to do 4k downscaling to 1080p (at 24fps and 60fps)? or is it too slow?

[huhn]

depends on your settings. without LL it isn't any problem just tested 50 hz.

[6233638]

So my display is currently calibrated to 100 nits, since that is the intended reference level for SDR.
I can get that up to 300-350 or so if I disable backlight scanning, trading motion clarity for brightness.
But with HDR content not being very common right now, I'd be more inclined to just compress HDR sources to 100 nits than mess with creating a new preset on the TV that I have to switch to. Do you plan on extending the range of options for this?

It's not clear to me whether you're doing this algorithmically (in which case perhaps we could just enter a value from say 48-10000 in the box?) or if these are hand-tuned presets that you have created, in which case adding more options would be a lot of work.
HDR is looking pretty good on an SDR display now though. Another impressive addition to madVR.

Something that I was wondering though: I believe that one of the videos I have is HDR, but lacking any of the metadata, as it has that very desaturated, washed-out look that HDR videos did prior to this update.
Is there any way to tag a file as HDR, or is it basically beyond repair if that metadata is missing?

BFI at low frame rates like 60Hz will strobe way too much. Its best done inside the TV/Monitor which can drive the panel/backlight at much higher rates.
madshi has commented before that there are no immediate plans for this.It really depends on the display. If you're limited to a 60Hz input, you're correct that BFI is not a very useful feature to have.
If your display accepts 120Hz though, you can use BFI to give you an effective 24/48/72/96Hz depending on your preference.
I can see this being a very desirable feature once 120Hz OLED displays get here, since you can't count on the display manufacturers to give you comprehensive BFI options. LG's current OLEDs don't have any options for BFI - and from what I've heard, they don't plan to add them either.

I will say that BFI, instead of backlight scanning/strobing, is largely useless on LCDs in my experience. The slow pixel response times result in much worse image quality when BFI is enabled.
On a CRT or OLED display, or anything else with fast enough switching times - perhaps a DLP projector - it does just look as though you reduced the refresh rate.

You can however just mimick this with AviSynth if you really want to.I was actually doing some testing with BFI recently, and the only way that I was able to get it working was to use AviSynth with an old version of ffdshow in MPC-HC.
JRiver wouldn't even load ffdshow, it just defaulted to its internal LAV video decoder.
And when it was working, it would occasionally drop a frame/stutter here and there.

While this worked just fine for the testing that I was doing (I wanted to see what native 24Hz would be like on a CRT) it wouldn't work if I intended to actually watch films this way. Inserting two black frames to get an effective 72Hz on a 120Hz OLED TV, for example.

So having support in madVR would be a much better solution.
I don't expect it to be a high priority item, but I would like to see BFI support at some point.

does anyone know if a GTX 960 is able to do 4k downscaling to 1080p (at 24fps and 60fps)? or is it too slow?You won't be able to do it in linear light, but it handles this just fine otherwise.

[nevcairiel]

Something that I was wondering though: I believe that one of the videos I have is HDR, but lacking any of the metadata, as it has that very desaturated, washed-out look that HDR videos did prior to this update.
Is there any way to tag a file as HDR, or is it basically beyond repair if that metadata is missing?

Proper HDR reproduction requires a variety of metadata, based on information from the mastering process, and not only a flag that tells madVR that it is HDR.
If you don't have this information, then your video cannot be properly displayed.

[6233638]

Proper HDR reproduction requires a variety of metadata, based on information from the mastering process, and not only a flag that tells madVR that it is HDR.
If you don't have this information, then your video cannot be properly displayed.I thought that would probably be the case, thanks.

[GCRaistlin]

the best mode for NTSC movies is 23p nearly no movie is true 24p
But with ReClock we can easily change the frame rate of an NTSC movie to 24p with almost no pitch change. Changing the frame rate to 23p will give us bigger pitch change, won't it?
if the TV has a flawed 23/24p mode
How do we know that it's flawed?

Windows XP reports the following supported modes for my Epson EH-TW9200 projector: "24 Hz, Interlaced", "25 Hz, Interlaced", "30 Hz, Interlaced", "50 Hz", "60 Hz". The appropriate section of Catalyst Control Center doesn't mention interlacing for 24/25/30 Hz; I don't note any issues playing progressive videos on 24 Hz. Does that mean that Windows XP is wrong about "Interlaced"?

[Thunderbolt8]

depends on your settings. without LL it isn't any problem just tested 50 hz.what settings did you use? and how are the ms?

and with LL?

[GREG1292]

Madishi on a 9500LC crt projector what is the nit capabilities of the projector? Have all the latest direct chain mods and Moomee card
and I can see changes all the way up to 10000nit.

[Asmodian]

But with ReClock we can easily change the frame rate of an NTSC movie to 24p with almost no pitch change. Changing the frame rate to 23p will give us bigger pitch change, won't it?

23p actually means 24000/1001 ~= 23.976 Hz or whatever value close to that the GPU really does. It is for watching blurays at their native frame rate.

[AngelGraves13]

BFI at low frame rates like 60Hz will strobe way too much. Its best done inside the TV/Monitor which can drive the panel/backlight at much higher rates.
madshi has commented before that there are no immediate plans for this.

You can however just mimick this with AviSynth if you really want to.

Got it, thanks :)

[KoD]

Hi madshi, you were right, the settings are reset, both the file and the registry entries get deleted, so that's not the reason why the subtitle positioning got fixed. In fact, after doing what you asked me, I can now say with certainty that the subtitle positioning issue happens only when DXVA is used for the scaling of the luma and of the chroma. If DXVA is not used for scaling, then the subtitles are at their proper location in the image. It's as if DXVA is used for scaling, then the subtitles are kept at their original position in the frame in absolute values, which is now somewhere in the middle-left part of the image. And yes, using software decoding + DXVA scaling also shows this issue; it's not related to QuickSync.In order to reproduce this, could you send me 2 "settings.bin" files (from the madVR folder, or if madVR doesn't have write access to that folder, it's in "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\madshi\madVR\Settings"), one where subtitle positioning works and one where it doesn't work - together with a small sample?


- movie file here (http://wikisend.com/download/540628/qs-adaptive.mkv) (35Mb)
- settings files here (http://wikisend.com/download/262952/settings.zip); when everything is fine, jinc is used for resizing; when it's not fine, DXVA is used for resizing
- screenshots here, for how it looks when DXVA resizing is used, in windowed and fullscreen modes, because of deinterlacing performed by madVR:
http://s4.postimg.org/qx9gs7jjt/windowed.png (http://postimg.org/image/qx9gs7jjt/)
http://s4.postimg.org/6rak72da1/fullscreen.png (http://postimg.org/image/6rak72da1/)
- screenshots here, for how it looks when DXVA resizing is used, in windowed and fullscreen modes, deinterlacing not performed by madVR but by the decoder itself (in order to show that it's not the deinterlacing that's causing this, but the DXVA resizing):
http://s4.postimg.org/6hhacbjqx/windowed_no_deint.png (http://postimg.org/image/6hhacbjqx/)
http://s4.postimg.org/x3tr1any1/fullscreen_no_deint.png (http://postimg.org/image/x3tr1any1/)

I confirm there is an AR issue for DVD playback myself, with a DVD of my own. But this is not new, it's here since at least 0.89.15 (did not test further back).

The copyright notice is 4:3 and is displayed properly, the studio intro is also 4:3 and no issues, and then the menu appears, which is a static image, and should be displayed as 16:9, but madVR displays it as 4:3. In EVR it's 16:9. No sample from me, but I think there needs to be the two videos included as well to reproduce this, and I don't know how to cut the vobs with the intro videos in.Sample?

- VIDEO_TS folder here (http://wikisend.com/download/573694/CaroDiario.7z) (67Mb)

[6233638]

Madishi on a 9500LC crt projector what is the nit capabilities of the projector? Have all the latest direct chain mods and Moomee card
and I can see changes all the way up to 10000nit.Set it to 400 (lowest) for now. There's no way it will even be approaching that. It's almost certainly <100 nits, and very likely <50.

I can't think of many consumer displays, CRT or not, which would exceed 400 nits brightness.

23p actually means 24000/1001 ~= 23.976 Hz or whatever value close to that the GPU really does. It is for watching blurays at their native frame rate.Film is typically shot in 24p and then converted to 23p for sale in NTSC regions.
24p would be the closest thing to the "native rate" if you're going to use ReClock or similar.

[GCRaistlin]

23p actually means 24000/1001 ~= 23.976 Hz or whatever value close to that the GPU really does. It is for watching blurays at their native frame rate.

I've just never seen "23,976 Hz" or "23 Hz" in the Windows' refresh rate pull-down list. Maybe because I never connected LCD/Plasma TV to the video card.

[GREG1292]

[QUOTE=6233638;1749987]Set it to 400 (lowest) for now. There's no way it will even be approaching that. It's almost certainly <100 nits, and very likely <50.

I can't think of many consumer displays, CRT or not, which would exceed 400 nits brightness.

Interesting will do some more testing tonight.

Thanks

[huhn]

How do we know that it's flawed?
by watching a movie at 23p. is kind of complicated and on the other side very easy. if you know how proper 23/24p looks it is very easy to see if a screen is doing a 3:2 cadence with the image. if you are used to this cadence by watching broadcast than you may not notice this.
with other word i use my eyes.

they test this: http://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/by-brand/samsung?uxtv=86de

nearly all cheaper ones fail this simple test.
if the panel isn't 120 hz they usually doing a 3:2 cadence.
Windows XP reports the following supported modes for my Epson EH-TW9200 projector: "24 Hz, Interlaced", "25 Hz, Interlaced", "30 Hz, Interlaced", "50 Hz", "60 Hz". The appropriate section of Catalyst Control Center doesn't mention interlacing for 24/25/30 Hz; I don't note any issues playing progressive videos on 24 Hz. Does that mean that Windows XP is wrong about "Interlaced"?

windows XP doesn't support 23p and 59p. so i would be shocked if it read this wrong too.

and by interlaced it most likely means 50 field with 25i and by sending 25 progressive images to the device and flag them intelraced nothing is happening to them they are just repeated if the deinterlacer is of normal quality. i didn't even know there is a spec for 24i.

crimson removed the refreshrate selection. in the past there where more options than windows showed but AMD doesn't care i guess. this driver...

btw. this is leaving the topic of display mode if you have questions about this general HTPC stuff feel free to ask in a new thread i try to answer them.

[Asmodian]

Film is typically shot in 24p and then converted to 23p for sale in NTSC regions.
24p would be the closest thing to the "native rate" if you're going to use ReClock or similar.

Yes but if you do not want to resample the audio you need 23.976 Hz.

[QBhd]

crimson removed the refreshrate selection. in the past there where more options than windows showed but AMD doesn't care i guess. this driver...



Just wanted to point out Crimson has a new Custom Resolution Section (Display>Additional Settings) that allows you to do some very nice and clean fine tuning of custom resolutions... Although switching between these custom resolutions now has to be done through the Windows control panel, not quite ideal.

QB

[leeperry]

:thanks: for the new version, looking forward messing with "thin edges" together with double SR.

Just wanted to point out Crimson has a new Custom Resolution Section (Display>Additional Settings) that allows you to do some very nice and clean fine tuning of custom resolutions
Still lags behind 13.12 raw performance wise I guess?

At least it comes with an option to output >8bit FWIR which 13.12 lacks badly and no more kludgy CRU needed in extreme cases from what you're saying, 'bout time. Now eagerly awaiting new AMD GPU's and SuperSampling SR in mVR :p

Having chroma SR updated with the same algo as luma SR would be darn sweet too if any possible but I guess that's already on madshi's list somewhere so I'll sit tight :)

[Warner306]

:thanks: for the new version, looking forward messing with "thin edges" together with double SR.


Still lags behind 13.12 raw performance wise I guess?

At least it comes with an option to output >8bit FWIR which 13.12 lacks badly and no more kludgy CRU needed in extreme cases from what you're saying, 'bout time. Now eagerly awaiting new AMD GPU's and SuperSampling SR in mVR :p

Having chroma SR updated with the same algo as luma SR would be darn sweet too if any possible but I guess that's already on madshi's list somewhere so I'll sit tight :)

Try SuperRes(3) + crispen edges(1.0) for 2x scaling factors. I prefer this to SuperRes + thin edges.

[Uoppi]

Yes but if you do not want to resample the audio you need 23.976 Hz.

So with NTSC video (29.976 fps and 3:2 pulldown) the correct tag is simply "deint=Film", which will result in a 23.976 frame rate.

And with 25 fps PAL to remove the speedup using Reclock, the correct tags are "deint=Film frameRate=24p"? Or maybe just "frameRate=24p" if it's flagged as progressive and no deinterlacing/IVTC is needed? Or should this also be tagged 23.976? (I can't use the global setting for PAL speedup in madVR because I've got some native 25p videos, which would get screwed up.)

[Stereodude]

The quality/reliability of madVR's IVTC algorithm is pretty good. It's extremely unlikely that running it on a progressive Blu-Ray rip will do any harm. It should simply detect that the video is a 2:2 cadence and not do anything other than analyzing the frames and detecting/confirming the 2:2 cadence.
I've come across a few scenes in some NTSC DVDs where the madVR IVTC algorithm freaks out and drops the 3:2 pattern and goes unknown before recovering when the shot changes. There are usually a lot of shallow angle horizontal lines present when this happens, like the siding on a house, or tiles on a background wall. Is it possible to restrict what madVR's IVTC algorithm looks for, or to force only a certain pattern, like 3:2, to reduce the chances of it getting lost?

FWIW, I've never seen it have a problem with HD 1080i60 3:2 content.

[AngelGraves13]

I've come across a few scenes in some NTSC DVDs where the madVR IVTC algorithm freaks out and drops the 3:2 pattern and goes unknown before recovering when the shot changes. There are usually a lot of shallow angle horizontal lines present when this happens, like the siding on a house, or tiles on a background wall. Is it possible to restrict what madVR's IVTC algorithm looks for, or to force only a certain pattern, like 3:2, to reduce the chances of it getting lost?

FWIW, I've never seen it have a problem with HD 1080i60 3:2 content.

That's usually when fades or other transitions were mastered at 30 fps instead of 24.

[Stereodude]

That's usually when fades or other transitions were mastered at 30 fps instead of 24.
Except the scenes are not fades. They just cause misdetections. I will cut one of them from the DVD and upload a sample.

Edit: Here's a sample (https://www.sendspace.com/file/tp2lq7). Enable deinterlacing and watch.

[Warner306]

Can someone tell if there is any difference at all between choosing "disable calibration controls for this display" and "this display is already calibrated?" I have one display that had calibration controls disabled. Setting it to "this display is already calibrated" seemed to change the picture slightly, even though I expected no change. I thought the gamma might be different. No other checkboxes are checked.

Are the same gamma ramps used in both cases? The difference could be in my head.

[Ver Greeneyes]

Can someone tell if there is any difference at all between choosing "disable calibration controls for this display" and "this display is already calibrated?"I believe madVR does some extra gamma processing in the latter case, on the theory that if your display isn't calibrated, it's probably not worth bothering. I asked madshi once, but it's been a while so I may be misremembering.

[AngelGraves13]

Except the scenes are not fades. They just cause misdetections. I will cut one of them from the DVD and upload a sample.

Edit: Here's a sample (https://www.sendspace.com/file/tp2lq7). Enable deinterlacing and watch.

Yeah, it happens with a lot of my DVD mpeg-2 content as well. I've turned off IVTC to address the issue. It doesn't look as good, but I don't run into any problems. I doubt it will ever be fixed.

I believe madVR does some extra gamma processing in the latter case, on the theory that if your display isn't calibrated, it's probably not worth bothering. I asked madshi once, but it's been a while so I may be misremembering.

I've enabled it on my end and it does make a difference. My monitor is SRGB, but I've set it to 709 in the list and DVD content which uses a different colorspace is different with it on/off. Not really sure if it's supposed to be on or not. It does take some of the redness out of the image though for SD content.

[huhn]

Except the scenes are not fades. They just cause misdetections. I will cut one of them from the DVD and upload a sample.

Edit: Here's a sample (https://www.sendspace.com/file/tp2lq7). Enable deinterlacing and watch.

first of all this sample isn't flagged interlaced for madVR.

the disc has a "Scan order : 2:3 Pulldown" flag the disc is most likely soft telecine and there is simply nothing to do with the stream.
and the next strange thing is the VFR flag and the missing matrix and stuff like this.

so by default madVR isn't asked to deinterlace and if it doesn't use any deinterlacing everything is fine.

[Stereodude]

first of all this sample isn't flagged interlaced for madVR.And your point? Not all DVDs are flagged correctly, or will indicate to the decoder and madVR what they really are.

so by default madVR isn't asked to deinterlace and if it doesn't use any deinterlacing everything is fine.
No, it isn't. You can't get proper 24p playback of the original DVD without forcing deinterlacing = on and film mode because madVR gets told it's got a framerate of 29.97. Sure, if you process the video stream to remove the soft pulldown flag and were to remux it into a mkv or something where the stream is marked as progressive then it will playback fine, but I'm talking about playing back the DVD as is.

[Stereodude]

Yeah, it happens with a lot of my DVD mpeg-2 content as well. I've turned off IVTC to address the issue. It doesn't look as good, but I don't run into any problems. I doubt it will ever be fixed.
Admittedly I don't watch a lot of DVDs. It's nearly all Blu-ray and OTA ATSC HDTV. However, recently I started watching Castle, which isn't on Blu-ray, so I've now got a fair number of DVDs under my belt. I think I've seen 3 times so far up through S05E20 or so where the IVTC algorithm got confused. I'm not about to disable it.

[huhn]

And your point? Not all DVDs are flagged correctly, or will indicate to the decoder and madVR what they really are.

No, it isn't. You can't get proper 24p playback of the original DVD without forcing deinterlacing = on and film mode because madVR gets told it's got a framerate of 29.97. Sure, if you process the video stream to remove the soft pulldown flag and were to remux it into a mkv or something where the stream is marked as progressive then it will playback fine, but I'm talking about playing back the DVD as is.

feel free to step through each frame IVTC isn't needed for this file.
not sure if madVR is ignoring repeate flags or things like this but the IVTC algo still sees the 3:2 pattern that's not present when deinterlaced or played progressive.
the output is already 23p the "only" issue is that madVR isn't switching to 23p and stays at 60 hz because source filter says it is 29p.

don't get me wrong madVR IVTC shouldn't fail in this case but this file is not a typical DVD. i guess the muxer did something to it but this is just a guess.

there are still bugs with this sample SM is not working properly it is triggered at 23 hz.